The Way to College Podcast - Ep 180 - Dr. Roberta Trevino

Hi, this is Dr. Cesar Ligur with another episode of The Way to Kill You. Another episode of The Way to College podcast. And one of the wonderful things about the podcast has been the opportunity to connect with folks in all sorts of fields, doing all kinds of amazing things. And I'm excited about today's guest because I met today's guest through another friend through Ed Calchelsa native. Shout out to Ernesto Ayala for connecting me with today's guest. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to allow my guest to introduce herself for audience out there. So Dr. Cesar, can you mind introducing yourself? Thank you and good afternoon or good morning wherever everybody is today. My name is Dr. Roberta Familes Trevino, also known as Dr. Bobby Trevino, also known as Dr. T by my student. So I answer to a lot of different names, but yeah. For the interview, how would you like me to refer to you? Bobby's fine. All right, Bobby. Thank you. So Bobby, I begin every conversation, every interview with the same question. And that question is, if you had to identify starting point for your educational journey, what would that starting point be for you? I mean, for me personally, I grew up in a family of educators. So my education, you know, began at a very early age with both my parents being educators and traveling to different places. So it was an extended sort of educational experience. We moved from Austin to Knoxville, Tennessee while my dad was pursuing his doctorate. And then we moved to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where he was a professor of finance with the banking school in Louisiana State University and the Escuela bancaria. So he had a dual role with Debussy Galpa Honduras and did teaching both in Honduras and at LSU. My mom was a public school educator. And so I say that's really where I got my start in terms of understanding the importance of education. And at the time, there was not a whole lot of money coming in. And so our time out with our mom, my brother and I, with my mom, was to the library, to the bookstore. And spending time while she was doing laundry in the summer and watching her novellas. We were in the room doing Cat in the Hat and reading all of our books. And so I remember that from a very early age. You know, thank you for that. I mean, it sounds like a fascinating childhood to go Knoxville, Tennessee, LSU, Louisiana. But where did you grow up? Because I know where you grew up, right? We've had this conversation before we jumped in. But I think for listeners out there, I'd love for you to describe where you were born and where you started for you, your hometown. So when we left Louisiana, I was in the middle of third grade in the Atlantic National of Texas, which is about 15 miles northwest of Zapata County. Very small town. We lived with my grandfather, who incidentally was one of the first graduates from University of Texas. But he was a general store owner and farmer rancher. And so we lived there while we set our roots down in Zapata. My entire life has been pretty much until I graduated from high school in Zapata County. And the interesting thing about Zapata County, which I just recently realized was that when I was growing up, the population here was about 5,000 people. And then I graduated my class. My graduating class was 99 kids. I graduated from here and I left to college and did my thing. And, you know, 35 years, 40 years later, I returned to assume the job of superintendent. And this town had grown, you know, seemingly not overnight, obviously, but to a population of about 15,000. And then since the last several years has kind of started dwindling down, losing a few percentage points, you know, a year based on, you know, the census. It was a wonderful community grow up and because everybody knew everybody. So you had that idea that it takes a village and it really did. Like for a lot of reasons it was beneficial. Number one, well, we couldn't really miss behave because my mom was a public school teacher and an administrator and, you know, my best friends, parents were principals and teachers. And so, you know, we just had like this bubble around us, right? That really moved us in the direction of, you know, you're going to go to college and you're going to go do something with your life. You know, that was the expectation. I joke that the only choice I had was what school I was going to go to. And even then that wasn't really a choice. It was you're going to A&M. That's what my dad said. And so that's kind of, you know, what, you know, the journey that I took. When I left, I've always worked with highly at risk populations and limited English and economically disadvantaged. So my 35 years in education has been pretty much cemented in the work of helping those that don't have opportunity and hope maybe to be able to have a chance. And I would have that. So this community is challenging because it is a very remote community. We're not even considered rural based on statistics, right? We're considered small urban. But yet we do not have access to the many resources that other areas have, quality medical care, emergency services, you know, food. I always say that we're in a food desert, you know, so we don't have commerce coming in. Our school district is the main employer along with the county. And, you know, there's just a lot of challenges that fall within, you know, within the scope of that. It is a family oriented though, very, very family oriented community steeped in hawk pride. And that is what drives everybody is the pride of, you know, our teams and, you know, our school system. So now you, you very beautifully, I think, described your community. You talked about what it was like growing up and, and, you know, kind of everybody looking out for each other. But even then, even when you, when you were there, when you were growing up there, right, you said about 5000 population about 5000. I imagine even then, right, there were limitations in growing up in about the right, but you, it sounds like because of your parents experiences, your parents expectations and their backgrounds. You knew, all right, I'm going to get out of support. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to Texas A&M. And so, you know, would you say it was, would you say that's accurate that it was because of your parents own experiences and their expectations that you were able to see something for you, you know, outside of something. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it wasn't just, it was definitely my parents. They had a tremendous influence on, you know, on, on the outcome of me and my siblings. You know, my, my mom was not a first generation, but my father was. Both of his parents were, you know, dropouts from school. His dad was a mechanic. My dad had one of the brother who attempted to, I think, go off to school, but, you know, did not, did not pursue it. And so my dad really broke the mold because then it was like, you need to stay here and work the ranch. You need to stay here and do, you know, his teachers even told him, yeah, you know, you probably aren't going to be able to do much of. You know, amount to anything, you know, you might want to consider a vocational career. And my dad was just adamant that that was not going to be the case. And he went on to be, you know, very, very successful in his own right. But, but not only was it my parents, but it was everybody that I surrounded myself with all had the same mindset of we're all going to go to college and we're all going to go do something. You know, whether it was teaching or, or, you know, go to law school or medical school, whatever the case and many of them became teachers. And so it was just kind of like who you surrounded yourself with that there was in our mind. I didn't really realize that I was in a deficit or at a disadvantage rather. Yeah, until I left to A&M because I was in this bubble, like everybody knows who I am, you know, I can walk the streets and people know who I am. Or if I'm in trouble, people know who I am. And so there was this cocoon of, you know, the safety that no matter what we were doing in our community, we were taking care of people already knew who we were. Now you go seven and a half hours away to Texas A&M University where you're one of thousands. All of a sudden you're anonymous. And, and that was a difficult challenge because, you know, I thought that like the moon hung with me, you know, in my community. And then I go off to this other community and it's like, yeah, no, the sun does not rise on you at all. And you better figure out how you're going to survive this. And, and it was really, really, you know, in spite of the fact that I had so much support, it was really tough. And that was before cell phones and Siri and, you know, I remember driving to A&M by myself with a map trying to figure out how am I going to, where do I exit and how, you know, how do we get there. And I relate that to my daughters and they have no concept of, like, what, you know. And so, yeah, so I mean, definitely the environment that we grew up in, it was just like, you are in the top 10, you're going to college. There's no, you don't have a counselor talking to you or telling you about scholars like we just think like we just did what we have to do. Yeah. So, yeah. So that early, those early aspirations. So you know, you're going to Texas A&M. What is it that you intended to study? Not teaching. So remember, I have two people in my household, out of male banker, finance banker, my mom is an educator, incarnate word, Texas A&M, you know, I am never going to be a teacher. I will never step foot into a classroom that is not, I'm going to go be a banker and I'm going to be a lawyer. And so I graduated, I ended up not graduating from A&M. I ended up graduating from Southwest Texas, now Texas State University, Texas A&M, even though I believe Deep Maroon was a very big culture shock for me. And I was very naive when I went there and did not have, again, when you talk about preparedness, right? Yeah. I did not have the skill sets that I needed to be able to be functioning in a setting like that that was so competitive. And it was really, really tough, right? So I ended up going to Texas State University. I don't even like talking about my bachelor's degree. I always talk to my students about your bachelor's does not define you, thank God. Because, you know, if I look at when I have to turn in my transcript, I'm quite embarrassed about it, but, you know, I was in the wrong field. I graduated a degree in finance. I started working in a bank and I was bored to tears. So my mom at the time was an HR director and here in here in Sparta and she says, hey, you know, they're starting this new program. It's called alternative certification. And if you have a bachelor's degree, you can go into teaching and I'm like, well, I was making beans at a bank. So I said, oh, well, I'll do that. So and so I jumped into teaching and flew less as to what really to expect. But I went through the alternative certification started teaching here in Sparta my first year and then I left to San Antonio and did my the rest of my teaching career. You know, in the San Antonio area, but yeah, I was not going to teaching was not going to be what I was going to do. And that was the last thing on my list of, you know, what I would have seen myself doing. I appreciate, you know, you disclosing that and I had a feeling you didn't want to be a teacher. I think there are a lot of teachers that kind of maybe aspire to do something else find their way to education for whatever reason. I especially appreciate you talking about how your bachelor's doesn't define you your experiences and undergrad doesn't define you. You know, one of the reasons I created the podcast was because I spent the last 20 plus years working with first year students at U-Town. And they my students were coming in with so much anxiety about sort of everything hinges on this experience. And it's going to define everything I do and this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. And I knew that wasn't the case. You know, I've had I haven't, you know, know a lot of people talk to a lot of people and I thought, you know what I'm going to interview people because I want them to see I want them to hear it from from people themselves about their paths. And so I appreciate you say one saying that but then also that you share that with your students because I think it's important that they know that you go into education. And let me ask you because you said, you know, you were bored to death in finance bored to death the bank. You go into. Quiet. Quiet. And I'm not a quiet person. So it was really, really tough for me to be still, you know, I probably have some back then it wasn't really diagnosed, but I probably have a little bit of a combination of ADHD and gifted and talented, you know, kind of mixed in together. And so that is like a mixture for disaster if you don't bring it in, you know, so. Yeah. Well, so then you go into teaching what was and you clearly stated right 35 years of teaching experience or educational experience. What was it that kept you in teaching? What did you enjoy about it? I'll tell you that I was a bilingual elementary teacher. And generally, you know, there's a shadow on that. And it was like one per grade level. In fact, the last school where I was teaching, I moved with my kids from second to third to fourth. And we just kind of, which was not ideal, right? You know, that's just the way things were done back then. But for me, the why I do what I do, and I've stayed with it is because I was privileged to have the experiences and the opportunity that opened doors for me. There were almost, I mean, whatever barriers I had had nothing to do with my upbringing. The barriers were just life barriers that everybody gets, you know, along the way. But because I had the support system that I did, I was able to, you know, sort of push through those barriers without any issue because I had that support system. And my experiences were such that, you know, it was, it was, you know, going to school and becoming educated was a no brainer. But I quickly realized that the population that I've served over the last 35 years of highly mobile, highly economically disadvantaged, high poverty dysfunction, you know, just high at risk students. They all deserve to have, they may not have the same experiences that I had, but they definitely deserve the same opportunities that I had. And so my life's work has been how do we open doors for kids to get them to the next step? What are the elementary into middle middle into high, high into college and, and, and, you know, and beyond that is really letting them know, you know, you don't have to follow this path. You can choose something different and there is support out there for you. Let me ask you really quick, because I love that. I love that, right? That you, that they, that these students, the students you work with deserve the same opportunities that you've had. And I, I love that because I think, I think I know exactly where you're coming from. Before we jumped on, right, I was, you were asking me about where I went to school and things like that. And, and, and I, I consider myself incredibly blessed. I share my experiences with my students and with any young people, young people that I work with. But also because I always feel like there's so much information and knowledge out there that, that I didn't know, but somebody shared it with me, somebody opened doors for me. And I feel like, yeah, I've got to pay it forward. I, I, you know, there's nothing really special about me. But if I can do that for somebody else, absolutely. Was there a moment for you? Because I, you know, I feel like sometimes there's this moment when we realize I've got to, whether it is create these opportunities, I've got to share this knowledge. Was there a moment, can you remember a moment where you're like, this isn't right. I've got to help these kids or I've got to, you know, they need, they deserve the same opportunities. I mean, definitely, and when, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, as a teacher, I mean, as an elementary teacher, you're not really thinking about the long, you know, you're thinking about like, I need these kids to read and, and, you know, to be able to move on. When I moved into central office, the district that I was working with, you know, high poverty, inner city district, large district, you know, 25,000 students at the time. I just, I just felt like so compelled that, you know, there was this, this idea around this group of kids from these high schools that not them because, oh, they're from the bad side or whatever. And, and, and so I actually went into walk the campus. I'll never forget walking on the campus. And I was terrified to go to this campus because the reputation that it had, right, was like, you know, fights and it's inner city. And, you know, it was terrible and just, you know, whatever, right, the reputation that it had. And when I walked in, I was like, these are just regular kids. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them. And why are people making this whole, you know, like it's so unfair and they deserve to have the opportunities that the kids in the North have. Like, why not? And I remember the superintendent at the time, his name was Dr. Marcus Nelson. He's since passed away, but he would say then, and this was, this was in 2013 when, when I started working for him. He would tell me we are in the civil rights issue of our time because our kids are being discriminated against because they're poor because they're Hispanic because of whatever, right. And we need to fight for their rights. Here we are fast forward almost, you know, 10 years later, 15 years later. And we're still in the civil rights moment of our time where our kids are still not getting the same opportunities that everybody else is getting. And you'll see that now in Texas with the movement to the voucher system. It is, it is at its, at its best, you know, set up to discriminate against the haves and the have nots. And so for me, even especially now, now that I've become the superintendent and I'm responsible, you know, I had many moments along the way. It definitely as I became the superintendent and I've interacted with students and I interact with students, you know, as much as I can, not enough probably, but, but in different capacities, not just at school, but I see them in the restaurants working and, and they come up to talk to me and I ask them questions. And, and so I see these kids and I see them like just like no hope. And it's our job to make sure that there's hope there is hope and there's resources available. It's just how do I get those resources to my kids, right. And so I feel very compelled about that, especially in the movement that's happening in Texas right now to take away from our public schools, which would be detrimental. Which is, it's going to be detrimental to our public schools. If that movement goes through, because it's definitely designed and not, you know, it's definitely designed to remove from the public schools. And it's not going to have the impact that they're thinking it's going to have. I mean, the history has shown that time and time again. But, you know, as, as to one moment, I mean, when kids come up to you and, and, and are afraid to go to school and are afraid to, you know, do the things that they need to do because of, you know, what's going on around their environment. I just feel like they've been here all their life. They deserve to have an opportunity. Yeah. It's, it's amazing. And a little crazy to think right that, you know, the experiences that you've had, the students that you've worked with and the issues right continue to persist. You know, and here we are, you know. And I would challenge that the majority of the people around the table were educated in public schools. And, and, and so there's this picture, right, that we're not doing what we need to do. And, you know, we had an event. I'm just kind of sidebar here real quickly. We had an event to recognize all of the graduates as far back as we could count. So we went into the 1960s that graduated from here that achieved a doctorate level degree. And there was about 50, 50 people that attended this event. So we got recognized, you know, dinner and whatever, you know, a little ceremony. But these are all graduates from this small town in Sabata, you know, and people have gone on to be judges and lawyers and doctors and superintendents and dentists and pharmacists. And I mean, you know, the, and not, not all of them came from, you know, educated backgrounds and that kind of thing, you know, they overcame those obstacles. But I think it's because somebody opens the door for them. You, here you are, you're a graduate of Sabata. You go away for your education and to work and you find your way back. And you find yourself in a very unique position. And I think of all of the interviews I've done. I've done one other superintendent and who is at the school where, in the district where they grew up. And so, given this, your position now, given the opportunities that you have now, how do you create those opportunities? Right now that you've got, now that you've got, you've got your hometown, now you've got your home district. How do you create those opportunities and create, give, give your students hope where you don't see hope or where you don't see opportunity? How do you do that? At the, at the foundation of it, its relationships. And, you know, that, that adage of people don't know how, don't care how much you know until they know how much you care is really, really true. So one of the, you know, you can't isolate, let's do this and then we'll do this and then we'll do this. It's, you're hitting cylinders on, you know, you have to target curriculum and instruction and that needs to be aligned and we need to push teachers and have higher expectations for our kids. And we need to make sure our master schedule is aligned and all of that. I need to work on building relationships with them. I did a lot of work building relationships with my students and, and you know, the students that I'm leading and, and I can talk to you a little bit about, you know, what that looked like, but also, you know, developing relationships with parents and being accessible. And so I had an opportunity to, to be different than what had been here before. Very invested in my community. I don't have kids in the community, but this is my home. And for me, it is a very personal. This isn't just a job. It's not just a stepping stone to like, well, I'm going to be here for a few years and let me wait for something bigger. This is my career. And this is where I end my career. Right. I don't have aspirations to, to go leave, you know, a big district or anything like that. I love my community and, and I want for my community to be able to create conditions for students to want to come home. And one of the things that we did early on, and I think a lot of superintendents do this. Maybe mine is a little bit unique in my approach, but I have a superintendent advisory group and my superintendent advisory group is not just high schoolers. I have third grade through seniors and they stay with me. So I only just add new third graders every year. And so these kids have been with me now for three years, the ones that are on there right now. And we have spent a lot of time talking what's working, what's not working. And when we first started that process, one of the, the, the key feedbacks that I got from the kids is no one has ever asked us before what we want. So now they have a voice and yes, the kids are my advisory group are good kids, but I also have that conversation with kids at the alternative campus with kids in restaurants with kids that are just, you know, kind of like no, no, no face. They come to school every day and they leave. Nobody's really kind of paying attention to them. And I talked to them about what's working, what's not working. I spend time, you know, there's Border Patrol student of the month events where kids are selected, you know, as student of the month. So I take them and their parents to dinner. And so we have a sit down dinner. And I spend about two hours with them having conversation about, you know, their, their life in school and their post high school plans. And what I need to do, what do I need to know as a superintendent to make things better. And, and I think building those relationships and spending time with them has really cultivated ownership. And, and as I do that with administrators and teachers, it's, it's opening doors for people to be more receptive to, I'm not just hearing, to hear, to power somebody and that, and that actually became our motto. Well, we worked on strategic, a strategic plan. And I had teachers and parents and board members and community members and students and the student participation in that was phenomenal. And when we got to the point of like, what, what do we stand for? One of the interesting things that I found, you had seasoned veteran teachers, even, even teachers that were my teachers in high school that are still teaching, they're still in the business. They're still working, right? That are, you know, very commanding the kids were the kids were very vocal about what they wanted. And so when we started looking for a motto, everybody was like, oh, tradition and hot pride. And they were like, no, we don't want that. That means more of the same. And we don't want the same. We want something different. And so the kids were the ones that said, we're empowering tomorrow's leaders. And that's what we want. And so, you know, it was kind of like to the committee, like you want to go against the kids or you're ready to fold and they're like, we'll fold. And so that became our, our motto. And when, when they got pins, you know, they came to the board and they got pins with their new logo on it. Like, I mean, like it was very empowering for them to now turn around and step up at their campuses to make things better. So I think just building relationships is critical and being consistent. Right. You have to be consistent with your expectations and your decision making. And even though, because one of the challenges I'll tell you this, we haven't talked about that, but is the pressure because I'm from here. That's good and bad because everybody knows me. And so then there's, there could possibly be an expectation that, well, because we're friends, you're going to make a decision in my favor or, you know, whatever, right. Or the assumption that because we're friends, that's why I'm doing it. And I'm very clear about my decision making. It has to be what's best for kids. And if it's not best for kids and we're not doing it. Wow. Yeah, I, and I asked that question, right. That's a loaded question. And so I think you've covered all bases, right. But recognizing that one, it is a privilege to come back and to kind of, and to steer your district, right. In a new direction, but then also there is that, you know, that expectation and what does that come with, right. You know, the, the, go ahead. I'm sorry. There's an investment in it because I am here. So there's this added pressure that I have to be successful because I'm here leading my own district. I can't just pick up and move. You know, like, oh, it didn't work out or I get fired or whatever, you know, like I'll just leave and, you know, fade off into the sunset. Like I live here in this community. So the, there's an added pressure to perform. And, you know, so, so for me, that means, you know, I'm at work by 7, 7, 15 in the morning. Why? Because my campuses are already, you know, getting kids and reporting. So I have to be on duty. It doesn't matter to me that I don't like my hours are like eight to five or whatever. You know, there's no such thing really, but, you know, so I'm here available whenever like I need to be available for my community. And, and there is that added pressure that, you know, you know, who are you, you know, you think you're going to come back and change the world? Or, you know, you think you're Jesus Christ, you know, savior to, you know, come fix our district. Like, no, but I'm very committed. No, nobody will outwork me or be or out commit me. Not with my district. Not yet. Because, because I'm very invested in the success of it. I often ask for career advice. What advice would you give somebody who finds themselves in a position where there is that expectation? There is that added, added expectation. How do you, how do you, maybe for you, how do you focus on the work because there's a lot of noise that, and I think this is even for kids, right? There's a lot of noise and competing, competing efforts for your attention and for your reaction and for, you know, your, you know, your, your, you know, your work. And so all of those, all of that noise, especially if you're in a seat like mine, you know, you have to navigate the political landscape because you do deal with the board of directors and I mean, the board of trustees. And so there's that noise that can, can sometimes distract you from what's important that you have to focus on the work. You have to focus on the why and never forget that, right? So like, I know why I'm here and all of this other stuff, the chiefsman and the rumors and the, you know, faceless keyboard monkeys that want to, you know, blast us on social media, whatever, go ahead, knock yourself out. I'm here about the work. If you're truly concerned about something that's happening in our schools, my door is open. You can come walk through my door at any time and I will meet with you, right? So I will entertain those true concerns. Everything else is noise. I focus on the kids. And when I'm feeling depleted, which can happen, I look for my energy source and my energy source is my students. So if I'm feeling depleted and just last week, right? I mean, I'd been sick and, you know, January felt like three months long and it was just, you know, one thing after another. I had my student advisory. I spent three hours with them doing leadership development and team building activities with them. And then we break bread together and we share pizza and conversation. That's my energy source. So I go to my energy source when I need it. And that's with my principals and with my students. And so when I'm with them and we're doing the work, nothing else matters. The noise comes in and you just, you gotta let, you gotta brush it off and focus on the work. I love that. And I think given, I think that's great advice, particularly given the political landscape, given where we're at right now. I feel like for all of us and particularly for young people, right? There's so much noise. There's so much going on and to be able to kind of focus, as you say, focus on the work. Yeah. And you have to be able to evaluate, you know, the feel like you have to be really solid in your values and you have to really evaluate it is what I'm hearing aligning with my values. And if it's not, then you just as hard as it is. And, you know, with social media and just the constant streaming of, you know, just noise. I mean, it's just noise. It can really distract you. And so I always just tell him, like, you've got to doing some work on energy leadership. And I was working with the kids on that about, you know, where are you responding from? Are you responding from a level of I'm a victim and I'm angry or you responding from a higher level. So being aware of what you're thinking and then, and then trying to create a response that's going to lead you to a higher level and bring the group along with you. So really thinking about your thinking and being aware of yourself. And so leading of self is like incredibly important that a lot of leaders don't spend a lot of time doing and kids need to be spending time leading themselves and understanding what their values are and what, and they don't, they don't get time. They don't get enough quiet in their day to be able to reflect on that. And I think that that's something that what I tell my students, like you have to allow yourself some disconnect time away from your phone away from electronics away from all of that to be along with your thoughts. So that you can tap into who you really are. Because otherwise social media is telling you who you are or who you should be. And sometimes that doesn't align. And so then that that stress that you feel that discomfort that you're feeling is because something is pushing against what's in innate in you. And you're being told something that you're buying into and that's not who you truly are. So, you know, just kind of, you know, leading of self and, and coming up and always said and done. It sure is, but it's still great advice. Yeah. And hopefully, you know, for our listeners out there for the young people that are listening that they're able to to heed your advice and hopefully put it into practice. Yeah. And I would just say to them also, like, don't let anybody tell you know, nobody can tell you know, like, there's always a way that's one of the things that I tell my staff right now, like they'll say like, No, you can't do that. Oh, I don't like when somebody tells me no, if somebody else is doing it, that means it can be done. So don't tell me no. I don't want to hear that I want to hear how how can I what do I need to do and maybe I can't do it right then and there, but eventually I can get to it. So, you know, they're very easy to I think some students are rule. If they just accept that as gospel, like, Oh, okay, they said I can't know like you beat you go push that door down and you go ask and you go ask the question and nobody's going to do it for you. You have to be the one to go knock down doors and they will open, but you're going to have to knock them down. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think, you know, I always whenever I share the podcast, I always tell folks, there are a lot of themes that have emerged from the podcast from the countless interviews. And, and one of them is, is this just as you said, right, pushing down the door knocking down the door for a lot of my guests for the majority of my guests is taking ownership of this educational experience, the professional experience. And so they all talk about they all talk about these moments where they took ownership where it's like, okay, yeah, nobody's going to do it for me. I've got to do this. So I appreciate you. You sort of referencing that point. You know, I want to be mindful of our time before we go. One question that I had was you talked about this amazing advisory, the student advisory. You talked about talking to your students engaging the students and asking them for their opinions. But it, you know, I've heard of it being done at other districts. Sometimes it's, it's, and I don't want to call it a publicity stunt, right? You know, but to have students around and we're going to meet and we, you know, we'll break bread and stuff. But for you, it sounds like it was really important. It was critical to the work that you're doing. Why was it so important that you have that you bring these students together and that you listen to them? You know, the higher up you go, the less connected you are to the work that's happening in the classroom. And so if you're going to make change and you want to impact what's happening for our young kids, then you have to be connected to them. And they have to feel connected. You know, they have to feel connected to adults because oftentimes, you know, they can go through their entire day and not having a single adult speak to them, you know. And so that should not be the case for any kid that they shouldn't be invisible. And so that's my way of number one, putting my ear to the ground because they'll tell you, they'll tell you about substitutes. They'll tell you about what teachers are putting on makeup and taking selfies during class time. They'll tell you like they will tell me, you know, all I need to know. And I'll share this real quick story of why I think it's so important. When we were doing the strategic planning, it was really long days and my middle school, it was middle school and high school kids that were on that. So it required them to be on point from eight to, you know, four o'clock, right? And so that's a long day for a kid not to have a break. And so at the very, the very first meeting, very beginning, I was trying to get steps on my, you know, on my watch, right? Like I need steps. So we took a break and I told the kids, hey, I'm going to go for a walk. I need to get some steps. Y'all want to go with me. And they're like, yeah. So we went walking around outside around central office. And while we're walking there, like, you know, telling you all kinds of, you know, things that some things I didn't want to know. But well, so then as we progressed through the different sessions, they would come up to me and they would say, Dr. T, we need a break. Can we go for a walk? And so then we would go walk. And it's because they had things that they wanted to tell me that was in reference to whatever discussion was happening, whatever ideas they had in their mind. They wanted to talk about that. So they would come now and ask me, can we go like that was the code. Can we go for a walk? And so then we'd go outside and we'd walk around as long as it took. And then we'd come back in and they'd be settled. And then, you know, they would have already told me everything that they needed. And I would tell them, I can't make all the changes. But when you're telling me, I'm trying to, you know, set up systems so that that does happen. And so they may or may not see it, right? But they understood that, but they had a voice to be able to tell me that. In fact, one of the kids, my middle schoolers, they're giggling and laughing. And so one comes up and asked me to go for a walk. And then I see him go back to another student and they're like exchanging. I'm like, what are you all doing? He's like, he paid me $5 to come and ask you to go for a walk because we wanted to go talk to you outside. So I was like, okay, you don't have to be doing that. Like give him his money back, please. I love that. But they, you know, those are things that they remember, you know, and for me to feel connected. I mean, especially like, you know, if I'm going to get up at graduation and speak to them, but I've never even talked to them. Like how can I honestly share and impart any kind of, like there's no connection there. And so for me, that was just real critical. Like I needed to be connected to the kids. And that's the same. Like I went to the alternative campus, like at Christmas and they, you know, they had done some projects and so I went to go visit them. And these are kids that, you know, are the bad kids. They're not. They just made bad choices, but like they invited me to go and they presented me with a Christmas gift. And like, you know, like it means something to them. It means something to them. And, and it doesn't matter if they're your top kid or your lowest kid, you know, somebody talking to them and hearing what they have to say means something to them. So to me, that's like just really important. I love that. You know, last thing. Last thing, Bobby, if we always ask my guests. About any imparting words, last words of advice, what would you like to leave our listeners with? There's a quote that resonates with me always in the last several years as I've done book studies and stuff from atomic habits. The gentleman's name is James Clear. And he always says, every choice that you make is a vote for the person that you want to become. And I always share that with the students and even with the adults, like what you do every single day matters. And you either make the right choice or you take a detour, which we've all done. But regardless of what you're doing, you're trying to vote for the person that you want to become. And so you have to really have a very, I mean, I wanted to become a lawyer and that like, you know, never happened, right? But every day, the choices that I made led me into a different direction to where I finally found, you know, my calling. And so that's something that really sticks with me. It's like every day matters. Don't waste the day. And for our youth, I think that's really because they live so fast and their world is so fast that oftentimes they're living for the moment and not for what's to come because they can't see what's to come. And so I'm telling them, you've got it, there is something else. You may not be able to see it. But what you do today will impact what that looks like. And so you've got to choose right now so that you can, you know, become the person that you want to become whoever that may be. I love that. I love that. I couldn't think of a better way. What a way to end our conversation. Bobby, thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your story. It sounds like likes up out the is in good hands. Yeah, I hope the students are in good hands. Yeah, I think so. This concludes another episode of the way to college podcast. Thank you to my guests. Thank you to our listeners out there. Please make sure you subscribe right. Follow all of that good stuff. And don't forget to share the podcast with one other person. I'd appreciate it. Thank you. We'll see you again soon. Bye bye. Thank you.