1KHO 689: Play Is Disappearing So Here’s How to Bring It Back| Pat Rumbaugh, The Play Lady

March is when homeschool families start looking ahead. You can almost see the finish line. Spring goals, end of year milestones, maybe even testing around the corner. And this is such an important time to reinforce key skills and build confidence before wrapping up the year. If you are thinking about assessments, whether required by your state or simply the benchmarks you've set for your family, it's helpful to have a tool that makes review simple and clear. That's where IXL can really shine. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math language, art, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out this time of year is the real-time feedback and progress tracking. Kids get instant explanations when they miss something, and parents can see exactly where growth is happening and where a little reinforcement might help. It takes the guesswork out of finishing strong, make an impact on your child's learning, get IXL now, and 1,000 hours outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership. We may sign up today at ixl.com slash 1,000 hours. Visit ixl.com slash 1,000 hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Welcome to the 1,000 Hours Outside Podcast. My name is Ginny Erich. I'm the founder of 1,000 Hours Outside. And lucky for you today, the play lady is here. Pat Rumbaugh, welcome. Thank you. Oh, I'm delighted to be with you today, Ginny. I watched, you're so fun. I watched your TED Talk, one of your TED Talks, and it was the one where at the end, you hula-hooped. You hula-hooped while you were talking. I was like, that's really impressive. So can you give us a little bit of your history? Like, how did you become the play lady? Oh, I love being asked that question. So I was a physical education teacher and coach for many years, and I absolutely loved it. But I was seeing the decline in children going outside to play. And here, I heard that Kaboom was naming cities, a playful city USA, and this was back in 2009. So I founded a play committee, and one of the requirements to be named a playful city USA was that you had to hold a play day. So I looked at our calendar, which I suggest folks do, and decided, let's hold it on this particular day at this playground, because our public works, just down the street, was holding touch a truck where you got to climb on vehicles. And the mayor, the recreation director, were all supportive, and seven people came to this meeting, and so it was unanimous, let's apply, and let's hold a play day on that day. Nine years in a row, we were named a playful city until the program ended. But back to how I got my name. After the play day that was extremely successful, over 200 people came, there was a write-up in our Tacoma Park newspaper that's a monthly newspaper, and on the front page was a photo of yours truly showing a little guy how to hit a ball over a net, and a write-up of the play day. And so right after that, I get this phone call, are you Pat Rumbaugh? I said, yes, this is Pat Rumbaugh. He said, you're the play lady. And I laughed, and I said, what? And he said, yeah, you're the play lady. He said, the wife and I are moving, and she said, call the play lady, and let's donate all this play equipment. They came over, and it was times of stuff, Jenny. Like a lot of new, and everything was in great condition, and wouldn't give me his name, or his email, or his address, and I said, wait a minute, I was raised. You write someone a thank you note after, something like that. And he looked at me, and he pointed, play lady, you know what I want you to do? Keep doing what you're doing, and here we are, 2026, and that was back in 2009, and we're still encouraging, inspiring people to play. I love it. Okay, so if people want to host a play day, you offer two different play day handbooks. Talk about those. Yes, I'd love to. So on our website, let'splayamerica.org. You go on there, and you will type in, play day handbook, and you'll find out a little bit of information about them. But you receive them electronically, getting them together, it's $30, and it's fantastic. It tells you how to look at your calendar, and when to play in one, how to find people for your play team, who to go after, businesses, people, students, kids, because I don't know if you have where you live, listeners, but many schools now require community service for teenagers for graduation. And this is, I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, because kids tell me, wait a minute, I'm gonna get community service for playing. I said, yes, now you are going to have to set up and invite people to play and clean up, but the handbooks tell you all of this. And there's also a lot of blurbs and quotes in there from people, how they enjoyed it and what they did. And we have a dress-up lady, we have a mud pie lady. Like you can give people fun nicknames, and if you know someone that already plays something, like say someone's a great chess player, or just enjoys it, or plays cards, or go to double dots, or hopscot, invite these people and they could lead that activity. Oh, great resources, and what an amazing thing to do for your community, especially like if you said, like you had it nine years in a row, so it becomes this tradition, this way for people to come together and to build relationships. Can you talk about to your, a physical education teacher in Washington for more than 25 years, and you said, I saw the decline in kids going out to play. Talk about that change, what exactly did you see? Well, I started teaching in 1981, dating myself, and there were obviously no cell phones, then hardly anyone was even on the computer then. And anyway, when- Wow, this is the date range of someone who can really attest to what they saw. 1981 into the 2000s then. Correct. You went over that century change, and so you would have seen, wow, I think that's a lot of wisdom that you have to share. Oh, you're a sweetheart. Well, I did see how what was happening was, there was decline in this fun-free play, Jenny, like you and I, I know you're younger than me, but we would go out to play. Yeah. Or was outside, that's who you played with. And what was happening was you either were staying inside and not playing, or you were maybe on a sports team or involved in something that you did six days a week, almost like a job. Now, believe me, if you were enjoying that, I'm okay with that. I don't want to say that that's a bad thing, because that's not really a bad thing if you're loving what you're doing. But you are missing out on many things that we all, that built who we are, by going out to play with who was outside. You couldn't be a bully because no one wanted to play with you. You know, who wants to play with the bully? You wanted to play with people that were kind and that included everyone. And I was the person that loved to whoever was out there, hey, you want to play and we made up games. You know, pick up basketball sometimes was five against three because my younger sister got to be on my team. She's six years younger and people like can she even hit the basket, you know, because you included people. And when we'd play like Wiffleball and we only had eight players, okay, you couldn't hit to right field. You could only hit to left or whatever. You know, we always improvised. I remember one time cutting my knee because rocks were our basis. But, you know, anyway. Well, I mean, you're bringing up so many things that kids have lost. So when you talked about you have to play with who's there, like you're developing a flexibility. You talk about always improvising. You're having to adjust based off of the age. You know, your little sister is gonna play basketball this time while she's way younger, she's way smaller. How are we gonna make the rules so that it works and so that it's still fun for everybody. So in the 80s, you know, I grew up in the 80s and the 90s. And so tons of playing outside and nobody talked about it. It's just like what you did. And it was the same thing. It's like who's out in the neighborhood and there was serendipity in that. Like a little bit of surprise. You don't know what you're gonna find. There's a lot of open-ended joy, I think in the anticipation of that. So did you start to kind of notice, you know, through your adult career? And when did you notice? Is it like starting in the 90s when there's more cable television options or the youth sports kind of picks up a little bit? Like when did you start to notice the decline? Well, that's interesting. So we have two children that are 37 and 40. And so they were before smartphones, which was great. And they played outside, but they also had the luxury. I'm calling it a luxury to be on sports teams early on. Yours truly didn't get to be on a real team till high school. So they kind of had that combination and they graduated in high school in 04 and 06. So around that time, there was starting to be more of a pivot. And that pivot was that kids were going to, children were going toward more, what I call adult-led play activities instead of free choice, like we had Jenny, you know, to go out and play. And they fortunately got a mix. I mean, we have a basketball hoop in our driveway and it's paved and so kids would play floor hockey or kick a soccer ball around or pick up basketball. So it was nice, the kids, and kids still come over. Well, people know that this is something that I say to listeners anywhere I go. You know, if you have a yard, if you have a hoop, or can you paint a hopscotch board somewhere? The kids could, we have one in it. Here's a picture on my card. And it's out on the front of our driveway. And I just love when I look out the window, oh, someone's doing hopscotch. I remember my mother-in-law looking out the kitchen window and said, Patty, kids are playing football in your backyard. And makes us happy. Yeah, we love seeing that. We have a seesaw in our front yard. But yeah, so this change happened. And as this change happened, I really, I started bulletin boards at school. At 2011, I went on sabbatical. But I would say from 2005 on, I was really starting to research play and find out about play. I was working on my first children's book, Let's Play at the Playground, because I knew. I knew that in my gut, this was happening. And through the research, sure you know about many, many playing on profits out there that are doing a variety of wonderful things from the National Institute of Play on that are trying to show us. I mean, this is a fact that children are getting less playtime and schools haven't helped. By the way, I absolutely loved Hera, Estroff, Marano. Actually, I would love to be introduced to her because I took a lot of notes like you did. Oh, her book, everyone should read it, A Nation of Limbs. Yes. That was such an honor to get a chance to talk with her. That was pretty recent. I was floored. She is prolific. What a writer. She says we have placed upon our kids a violence of expectations today's parents, that this is a new kind of child labor because they're not allowed all this time for free choice, child led play. It's really interesting Pat, like the sort of these periods of 20 years. So if we went 1986 to 2006, which talking about your kids graduating around then, you know, 1986 would have been complete free play. By the time 2006, you're saying it's kind of a mix because sports have changed things. There's a more television by 2006. But if we looked at 2006 to 2026, I mean, we're basically like at, at play is almost nothing, almost nothing, four to seven minutes a day. I mean, that's almost nothing. So can you talk about, and you talk about this a lot through your nonprofit, let'splayamerica.org, that there are so many benefits of play. Also, it's a vital part of the human experience. It helps to grow communities. Like there's so many things that we're missing out on with this swing from it being the main state of childhood, the main part in 1986 to 2026, where it's basically crumbled to almost nothing. Yes. What is happening is basically, you know, families are smaller. They're having one, either no children or one to two children. And both parents are working, which is fine. But what they're doing is they're focusing most of their time when they're free, doing something with their child. I understand they want to be with their child, but they're kind of missing the point that their child needs time alone or with other children and to choose what they want to play. In my, let's play outside, the second book. There are two pages filled with information along with the book. And maybe you were going to get to that, Ginny, but I just want to really point out that they're vital for people to want to know that you need, a child needs every day, just like we do, downtime, but that downtime is their time to choose. Do I want to play outside or in my playroom? Do I want to color? Do I want to paint? Do I want to just be with other children, be off screens, definitely off screens, no screens. To have that, if they have been in an adult-led situation all day, and especially if it's in a non-play environment that they haven't had an opportunity to play. Oh, they need that so bad. And they need to be able to be around, not just a four-year-old with another four-year-old, but a wide range of children because older children, do you know what they gain from playing with younger children? They gain empathy. They realize, hey, they're young, they're not reading yet. So, I can't expect them to know their letters. And then a younger child, they're actually vocabulary improves. They learn from the older child, even if the child's only four or five years older, they learn from them. And it's a great way to have a mix. Where our grandchildren live, they're in Charlottesville, Virginia, it's so wonderful, their street leads into a cul-de-sac. And so, kids of all ages do go out and play, and nothing makes me happier than to see that. And below where they live, Jenny, is a creek and pass through the woods. Oh, yeah. And if you wanna see happy children and happy adults, go for a hike or walk along the creek, and when they wanna stop and throw rocks in the water or play with the sand, why not? You know, like get dirty, who cares? I mean, there's nothing better than being in nature, being outside, getting that, it empowers you to be able to say, I wanna play this. You may not even say that, you just do it, because that's what you wanna do. And then when we come back, and if there's kids riding their bikes or scooters, you know, they go and get theirs. And we just kind of, we're kind of like flies on the wall. And I don't mind being dumped. If Granny's dumped, so what? You know, because we know, we know they're getting what they need and want, and really, really every child needs this. This is such a fun announcement to make. Womb Bikes is officially the 2026 bike partner of 1,000 Hours Outside. And if you've been around here long enough, you know that's not a casual partnership. We care deeply about the tools that help families reclaim childhood, and Womb is doing exactly that. Womb was founded by two dads in a Vienna garage who simply couldn't find a bike that actually fit their kids, so they built one. And what makes Womb different is that they don't start with engineering, they start with empathy. Every part of the bike, from the lightweight frame to the brakes, size perfectly for small hands, is designed to help kids feel capable and confident. In a screen-dominated world, bikes are more than bikes. They are freedom, they are connection, they're miles of memories before the street lights come on. So this spring, we're launching something brand new, the 100-Hour Ride Challenge, or release a brand new tracker chart just for logging 100 hours outside on bikes. And for app members, stay tuned, integration inside the 1,000 Hours Outside app is coming. If you've got little learners, the Womb Go Bikes are incredible, available in six bright colors, including the sweetest new powder pink that just feels like spring. If you are working toward your 1,000 hours outside this year, a great bike makes it a whole lot easier. Womb Design's lightweight bikes built just for kids so they can ride farther and ride happier. Go to womb.com and use code OUTSIDE10 at checkout for 10% off your bike purchase, excluding the womb wow. That's OUTSIDE10 for 10% off at WOM.com. March is when homeschool families start looking ahead. You can almost see the finish line. Spring goals, end of year milestones, maybe even testing around the corner. And this is such an important time to reinforce key skills and build confidence before wrapping up the year. If you are thinking about assessments, whether required by your state or simply the benchmarks you've set for your family, it's helpful to have a tool that makes review simple and clear. That's where IXL can really shine. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that fits seamlessly into homeschooling. It offers interactive practice across math language, art, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade. It personalizes learning for each child, keeps them engaged, and gives parents clear insight into progress. What stands out this time of year is the real-time feedback and progress tracking. Kids get instant explanations when they miss something, and parents can see exactly where growth is happening and where a little reinforcement might help. It takes the guesswork out of finishing strong, make an impact on your child's learning, get IXL now, and 1,000 hours outside listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership. When they sign up today at IXL.com slash 1,000 hours, visit IXL.com slash 1,000 hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. And how we can change this, how we can do this is we can let our schools know, we can let other parents know, we can let parents know to listen to your show. Mom's out there, you know, Ginny every week brings a new dynamic person that shares ways you can help your family and your children, and that's what we need. Yeah, and you know, it's like having the little kids around, they really extends the playfulness for everyone. All the way up through the grandparents, all the teens, you know, so there's the empathy and there's just a lot to be said about that multi-age play which doesn't happen with the youth sports usually. Those are very strict in their, you know, you have to turn in your birth certificate, right? Like where are you born on the right day and are you in the right age group? So the picture books are really special. So there's two of them. They will be a great addition to your home. The first one you wrote is called Let's Play at the Playground, and the second one is called Let's Play Outside. And I really hadn't thought about this too much Pat, that there are not really kids books about just kids playing. And so it's just a reminder, it normalizes it, it inspires young kids to be like, oh yeah, this is what I should be doing. Instead of being on this screen, you know, I wanna go do these things and then maybe the kid bugs the parent a little bit more. So can you talk about the history of that? Like had one of your kids said, there's no picture books of kids playing. That's right. They were five and three and we were leaving story time at our library. And I son said, mom, why are there no books of real kids playing? And I literally, it was like a green light popped out in my head and said, oh, he's right. And my younger sister will even tell me that for years I would tell her, I have a book with photos and she's like, you are gonna have a book with photos. I said, yeah, what I'm worth, what may have some words. And so I was very fortunate. I told the story to a principal where I taught. I taught at the upper school, Washington International School. I was very fortunate to be there. And at the lower school that they now call the primary, I said, you know, would it be possible I could bring Daniel who has an incredible photography and interaction photographer. And he's also our co-founder for Let's Play America. And so Daniel and I, we got approved 100% approval to go and take these photos. And I wanted simple at first. And, you know, I would say that this happens fairly often, Jenny, someone, or have a young child and they're telling me, by the way, Pat, my child loves your book. I just recently, over Thanksgiving and we were at our library and a young woman, mother was with her young one. And she said after, well, wait a minute, are you Pat Romp? She said, my daughter loves your book. And I, oh, thank you. And what I think is pre-readers, you know, it empowers them again that they can relate to, that girl sliding, I can slide. That boy's climbing, I can climb, you know. And then the next book, Let's Play Outside, we wanted to expand that, which we got very fortunate. One great publisher, Starbreak Books, I wanna give a shout out to them, yes, which the book can be ordered numerous ways. Sadly with Let's Play at the playground, that publisher has closed. So Jenny, if you don't mind me saying, listeners could email me, theplaylady at gmail.com. That's the easiest way. And I mail it anywhere in the United States to them. Or I have mounted to Germany and France, as which I would do. Postage might cost you a little bit more. But, and I would sign it. I love to write a message to children and families. But yes, from our former children's librarian to Dr. Stuart Brown, who has endorsed both books, who is the founder of the National Institute for Play. I'm just so grateful. I have many ideas for the Let's Play series. So if a publisher is listening out there, though, those Starbreak books has been great. I just, if someone out there says, hey, we really gotta get more of these books out there. Feel free to reach out to me. The other way people can reach out to us is at info at let'splayamerica.org. Yes, we would do that. We also, we have helped around the world, communities hold play days. ChangeX, if you don't know about ChangeX, they are a nonprofit that funds projects. And they've funded a couple of our projects. Actually, Ginny, do you know about StoryWalks? I do. We love StoryWalks. Oh, good. Oh, good. So for people who don't know about them or maybe they don't know that they're near them, has someone done a StoryWalk for Let's Play Outside? Yes. So when I, about three, four years ago, learned about StoryWalks, I said, we gotta have these at our September and our winter play day. And so we started doing that. And the first one we did was for Let's Play Outside. Now, we did not come up with the idea. StoryWalk and Ferguson from Vermont was the one that came up with that idea. But the goal is to promote literacy and physical activity, which we all love. And so actually this year, coming up, just wanna show your listeners, is our 16th annual midwinter play day, February 1st. If weather's nice, we expand to outside. But if it's 20 degrees and snowy, we're inside. But we'll be doing Let's Play at the playground. And I'll tell you, a StoryWalk, the signs could be 10 feet away and you keep going down a hallway or they could be 30 feet or more apart. We did Let's Play at the outside at a beautiful park in a Neil Bright town, Silver Spring, Maryland. And what totally made me so happy was, one of the boys that was in the book, I had approval from every parent, I couldn't read the mother's email or phone number to let her know that the book had been published. Well, she saw the StoryWalk and reached out to me. She told me she bought 10 books. I was like, oh my gosh. She said, yeah, every family member got a book that her son was in. But it just, and many other people then contacted me about how do I get to have a StoryWalk and all about that. But there are many ways that listeners out there can help start with their own family, then their neighbors and their community and beyond help people play. Start with a positive attitude and say, I'm gonna put play on the front burner. Ask every family member, what would you like to do? But we're gonna go outside this weekend. If you had your choice, what would you do? And if they say they wanna play with their friends and just make mud pies, you know what? That's their choice because you're gonna get your choice. Your choice might be that we're gonna go to a new playground that we heard about or we might, like, in the fall we love taking our grandchildren to an app orchard and going on a hay ride and all of that. And they still have a great time, but the adults chose that. Let the children have a say and let them have their time. Then start talking to your neighbors and say, hey, could we close a street to play? You know, maybe, yes, we've closed over 35 streets in 17 years from a couple of birthday parties. We even have a video, we were very fortunate. I believe it was 2013. We closed the street and it was on a Sunday and we had a farmer's market going on and a reporter from the Washington Post said, I heard you're gonna close the street by the farmer's market. Can I come with a reporter? Did a full page article on us, which was wonderful. And a week or two after that came out, I got a phone call from Voice of America. How do you do this? At that point, we were still mainly doing everything without asking for a dime. Once we became a nonprofit, yours truly is starting to learn that a nonprofit is a business. So listeners out there, if you think what Let's Play America is doing, there are ways to donate to us, we would appreciate it. But what we ended up, we ended up closing another street and this woman, June Soul from Voice of America came and she ended up doing a video that went around the world letting people know how we, it was only a minute, 10 seconds, but it was a lot of fun and seeing people of all ages play. So we continued to do this and we get contacted from all different kinds of groups. Two years ago, I was interviewed by Mattel, Jenny. They have done, last year a play study came out and yes, Mattel has products that they give out. And so I said, well, hey, we're having these play days in events and they said, we'll send you in-kind gifts. So do you know what they're sending us for February 1st or play day? 300 decks of Uno. And so if you come to our play day, you get to play the whole time, all these different activities and join and watch the performances, participate, dance, whatever you choose. And then you get to go home with a new becavuno, which I think that's so fun because then the play continues. I just asked Mattel and actually there, I'm going to be presenting at the US Play Coalition Conference. That's the 2026 US Play Coalition Conference in April. If anyone out there, especially mothers, if you are interested in getting away and want to hear about play, you can learn a lot at this conference. It's held at Bloomington, Indiana. Anyway, I'm going to be presenting there with a couple of play friends. But Mattel is considering giving gifts for every person that attends. So if you don't ask, you don't get. And so I'm learning to ask. And for if you, all right, mothers, fathers, listeners out there, if you really want to help your community play, go and talk to your city council, your mayor, business people and then start gathering your group, gathering your play team, look at the calendar, figure out a time that you and a place. Remember bathroom too. Always think wedding. Remember in a wedding, it could rain. So you may need a backup, maybe a pavilion if it's summertime or warm or weather. But you want a place that you do all this planning that you could still have plan B and have the play day. Our backup is we hold our September play day at our middle school, but 90% of the activities are outside. We want to be outside because, you know, it's great to play outside. And then in fight, boy scouts, girl scouts, if there is a pickleball person that wants to come and teach people pickleball, that's great. We know that's a growing activity for people all ages, not just adults, but kids are learning it as well. At the same time, if you don't have a puppet theater, either make one or get one. We have a wonderful young man who leads our puppet theater and David is just dynamic. And I could go on and on. One of our board members, Shwanda leads chicken dance and she puts on a chicken costume. She was known as the mud pie lady and then she shocked me one day and says, Pat, I got a chicken costume. How about if I lead the chicken dance? And we love that. But yes, you want to bring fun to your community, start a play committee, begin holding an annual play day, and then when someone wants to close the street to play, help them out. As for equipment, you would be surprised. I would say at least half of our equipment or more has been given to us. We have seesaws, Jenny, and we have jump ropes and hula hoops. We have a giant Kinect four. We have cornhole, we have giant chests, giant checkers. Oh, dress up clothes. Oh, that's something. You know, like, especially my grandchildren absolutely love putting on dress up clothes. The little one, Samantha's two and a half and she puts on Batman. She goes, Granny, I'm Batman. And Charlie loves all the like Sonic and other figures, but they also love to just go outside and play, which is what, you know, start small, but dream big, and also let yourself go back to your childhood and ask this question, what did I love to play when I was a child? Yeah, yeah, so that you make sure that your kids and your grandkids get the same types of opportunities. So the books are adorable and they're very vibrant. It's like the whole saying of a picture speaks a thousand words. That's like full of life and vitality. Like these kids are smiling, they're swinging, they're sliding, they're running, you know, they're on play equipment, but they're just playing in nature as well. They're playing in community, they're making friends. And so they're just beautiful books to add to your home. I think that the idea of closing the street to play is such a practical one. When we were kids, we love playing in the street. I think every kid likes playing in the street because you're kind of not supposed to. So you go in the street and you're playing whatever, hockey or street hockey or whatever, but then, and then they'll be like, car, you know, and then you gotta move out. But if you are actually going to close the street, that helps you to connect with all your neighbors. So you'd have to go to all your neighbors and say, hey, we're thinking on Saturday from three to four or three to five or whatever, you know, that we're gonna try and close the street. Kids can be out playing, you know, would you be on board? You're gonna meet all your neighbors. And then it's a, it's like what Mike Lanza talks about, that playborehood guy, that then the kids are gonna look out the window and they're gonna see basically what's in your book. They're gonna see actual kids that are outside playing. And that's the, that's the big change, right? In 1986, there were actual kids out playing. In 2006, there were less, but probably still some. 2026, I think it's pretty rare to see kids, actual real life kids outside playing. So this practical idea to close the street to play is such a great way to start. So if you're starting with family, that would be your neighborhood connection. And then through that, then you meet your neighbors, you meet like-minded people, and you can extend to the community. So you have a lot of resources that help. It's interesting about Mattel. I would imagine that companies, and I don't know much about Mattel, but companies that are really focused on play, I would imagine to some degree have some sort of a concern because the kids are moving to screens younger and younger, and also to like makeup and skincare, you know. So I told someone just recently, I was talking to a fourth grader, what'd you get for Christmas? You know, and she said Barbies, but she was kind of embarrassed. And I almost think that Barbies are Mattel, but maybe not, I might be wrong. Do you know? Or not? Barbies are made by Mattel. Barbies are Mattel, right? So she said Barbies, but she was a little embarrassed as a fourth grader. And I was like, oh, I think Barbies are great. Like it's fun to play with dolls. And she said that all her classmates got stuff from Sephora, makeup. Fourth graders. Fourth graders. So I think it's important that Mattel is investing in play because it's getting squeezed out. So I love all of these resources that you offer and people can find out more at let'splayamerica.org. I love for you to talk about the coaching piece. So you come from a line of coaches. You were a coach, tennis coach of the year, coach for a long time. Your dad was a coach, coached Joe Montana. So you got this legacy of coaches in your family. There's obviously, I would imagine from 1986 to 2026, been a huge change in youth sports. What recommendations do you give? Because our kids do sports and they are fun. Our kids started a little later and it didn't really affect them. I don't think, maybe it did. I don't know. It's hard to know. Then you're like, well, would my kid have been better? It's hard to know what to do. But do you have any advice for parents today who are trying to navigate the youth sports world? Yes. So one, a child under 10 really should be able to play and should not be involved, in my opinion, more than one at the most to adult led activities a week. And that's outside of their school. So for example, say they wanna try soccer and they're six years old. Say, okay, that it's gonna be for eight weeks and you're gonna have a practice and a game, which means every Saturday, family's gotta get you off to that game. And you can't, they're six now. They may not understand or comprehend all that. And younger, I think, is even, there are kids that are interested younger than that. But I think they would benefit more from just playing and kicking the ball with neighbors and friends and family. That's my opinion. But by six, okay, let them try it. The thing is they may not have a positive coach or some teammates that are not as nice or show good sportsmanship. On the other hand, they might have a really positive good time and that could continue for years. The thing is you let them try it and if they don't care for it, they can always go back. Some kids will try a variety of different things and that's okay. But what you don't wanna do is just because I played tennis, I am not gonna make my children play. Though my daughter, both kids played high school sports and continued to play. And she wishes I would have pushed tennis on her when she was younger and I'm like, you weren't interested. That's where it was. But for parents out there, what you don't wanna do is force and make them play something they don't wanna play. Now, being physically active is different. Saying, okay, if you don't wanna play a sport, we could go to a playground and you can play or you could ride your bikes or we could go for a hike or a long walk. Something that you're gonna be active in because you wanna get them off the sofa, obviously off electronics and outside. Yeah, my master's is in coaching in positive talk. I was actually coaching college tennis at the time. But primarily most of my coaching was done in high school. Two thirds I coach soccer, basketball and tennis, mostly tennis. And then a third of my coaching was volunteer. I actually did one year of baseball, but my son who is actually, or son's a baseball coach, or son said, mom, he was nine. Mom, you don't bring the outfielders to the pitcher's mound and talk to everyone. Well, one, they weren't that far out, Jenny. And two, I was gonna include everyone. And anyway, so that was my only year of coaching baseball. But soccer, a week after I started teaching, I got pulled in by the principal and he said, by the way, you're the girl's soccer coach and you have a game in a week and they didn't have jerseys. I used my first credit card to go buy jerseys. And I believe I got reimbursed, but anyhow, we did very well because I learned a lot from the players and I was only 22, I could run around with them just as much then and that was great. I'm sure they loved having you. Oh, thank you. And your dad was a coach. What a legacy there. And it goes to show, and I've had a couple of people come on to talk about youth sports. If you are a coach, it's really important to be learning about things like the positive talk and what kind of an environment that you're creating, that it's not super high pressure and that it really, the point is for growth and really for lifelong skills. Like tennis, my brother plays tennis, he's super good. And he's like an adult and he plays like mixed doubles and he's got, he's done all these leagues and it's wonderful as an adult, he does that. And my other brother plays baseball. Like I think it's softball, but it's like an adult league, right? It's co-ed just for fun. I got a friend that plays on a women's soccer team as an adult. Like these really can provide lifelong, enjoyable ways to move your body and also to build community. Volleyball, you see like all summer long, you know, the sand volleyball nets are everywhere. If you live anywhere that's near like a beach or something like that. So as long as I think the kid has not turned off to it, it can be a real positive. Now I've seen statistics, this mean Kim John Payne talks about how 70, I think it's 70% of kids quit youth sports by age 13 because they're burnt out. So you just want to make sure that it's balanced so that they don't quit because there can be such a lifelong joy there. You know, with all the people, like you said, a pink pickleball and it's helping people to build community and to stay active and to keep their mind sharp as well. I love to talk about one last topic that you talk about as far as play, you know, we've talked a ton about the benefits of play, multi-play and different ideas and people can go to your website and find out so much more. But one of the things that you talk about and I think is really important is that play provides a buffer for dealing with stress and adversity. You talked about your parents, you know, you went through this really hard time with your parents and health problems and you were able to turn to play or able to turn to getting outside as one part of the package of coping, one part of the, one piece of the puzzle for coping through these really hard times. And so we all know that people go through really hard times in life and that our kids will too. You know, maybe it won't be for a long time. Maybe it's like when they're in their later adulthood or something like that, but for them to have these things that they can draw from and to fall back on. So can you talk about that as a benefit of prioritizing play in our families and communities? Absolutely. So for many years, I wrote for playground professionals at playgrounds.com. And if you went to our archives, I wrote an article, I can't remember what year exactly, but it was called The Gift of Play. And Jenny, one of the best things you can give someone you care about is playing something they wanna play and playing it with them and enjoying it with them. Our son actually is a very good poker player. And so we'll play, we're all played poker together. For fun. I love that you said that. I actually think that's so important because like I have certain things I really like. I like this game called Azul. And one of our sons will always play that with me. I like this game, our family calls it Peanut, but other people call it NURTS. But it's like Solitaire where you play it really fast on top of each other. Like my husband hates it, but like some of my kids will play it with me. And it really is such a gift pat when people are willing to play the game that you wanna play. Yes, for years at an apartment building in Tacoma Park and this is where I picked up so much from these brilliant people. Sadly, the two founders are gone, but it was called Intergenerational Games Night. And every Tuesday night I would go to Games Night. And one of the founders, Mary Feldman, was a former librarian. And she asked me, Pat, you wanna join in playing Scrabble? And I was just doing horrible. She goes, Pat, are you okay? Are you tired? And I said, Mary, I'm having a good time. I'm just horrible at Scrabble. Our daughter's been tested, she's dyslexic. I've never been tested, but I'm a horrible speller. And so, but I had a good time because you know why? Mary was having fun. And Mary, she's the one that organized Intergenerational Games Night and she invited this gentleman, John Goond, who loved to teach people games. And every once in a while, and he loved teaching people bridge. And he said, Pat, we need a fourth in bridge. I said, well, I'll play. And you know, I'm not very good. I don't know, I don't think I'm that good. I don't know bridge that well, but of course I would play. And then I loved playing with these super seniors, and we're very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very care. Will you go backwards? You put a king on the corner, a black king, and then a red queen, etc. And you get seven cards, first one to go out. But I would play this with these seniors. And a couple of them have passed away now, but they would start telling a story. It would be like, it's your turn. We've been waiting five minutes, but you can carry on a conversation and play the game, which I absolutely love. Sadly, COVID has made that games night doesn't happen that often, which bums me out. But at our events, which also want to add something else that we do, that listeners is an easy thing to do, an event that already goes on in your community, you can add play. The July 4th parade goes past my house. So do you know what we call it? Our picnic play and parade watch. So we bring out things to play. And sometimes kids play while the parade's going on, or people play beforehand or after. We join several events. Our police offer national night out. And that's the first Tuesday in August. And that's a national event. So if that goes on in your community, you might want to reach out to your police departments and say, hey, can I bring cornhole or can I bring board games? Or can I bring sidewalk chalk? Bring a bin of sidewalk chalk. And if they close the street for national night out or wherever they hold their event. So our police closes the street and we get invited. And hundreds of people come out to play. I mean, the floor hockey gets crazy. You know, like, because kids don't get that opportunity to go out and play floor hockey like we did growing up. Right. That's a great idea. You know, even you had said earlier about the farmer's markets, you know, you can get a booth or, you know, kids are kind of bored sometimes anyways at those. So I like the name of intergenerational to you. International game night. It's just a reminder that we should be mixing our ages and doing intergenerational things because you said at the very beginning, several times, Pat, you said, this makes me happy. Nothing makes me happier than seeing these kids. And I do think that there is a communal loss when kids are indoors all the time. Like it's a loss for them. Yeah, but it is also a loss for the community as a whole because kids have a lot of vitality and they're cute and they're fun and they're funny and they have a lot of energy and we should be intermixing the ages and spending time together. So I love that idea. And the youth should be spending time and gleaning wisdom. Like if the super seniors are sitting there telling a story during Kings and the Corner, that's good for a 17 year old to hear that. So all of these things are important. They really, they benefit everyone. That's why I play such a win, win, win. It's like a win for all the ages and it's a win for so many parts of who we are as people and you talk about that so much on your website. So this is such an honor to get this chance to talk with you. You've got the two playday handbooks that people can check out. Let's play outside. Let's play at the playground. People can email you if they want a copy of, let's play at the playground and I'll make sure I'll put your email on the show notes so people can get ahold of you and people can watch your TED Talk. There you hula hoop. You've got these cool colored pants on and you're talking and you're hula hooping. It's like the greatest thing. I was so impressed. So it's an honor to meet you, Pat, the play lady. We always end our show with the same question and the question is, was a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside? Oh, I got it for you. So yours truly had this banana bike, which a lot of my friends had and this would have been around 1968 and I lived in a town in Western Pennsylvania called California, Pennsylvania. It's a college town and we would ride our bikes around town and we were the California Pennsylvania is adjacent to the Monongahela River and there would be a paved path where boats went down into the river and we would ride race as fast as we could on our bikes into the river. Of course, we did this one more time, but it's a little bit of a daredevil, but more risky play and fun, just plain fun. Yes, it's so memorable. Yes, I can feel that splash and that just, it's just so exciting. One, just very short thing that everyone will benefit from is we have YouTube videos, we have a city TV that comes to our play days and does a play day video. So there's several play day videos as well that people could watch and you can find them on our website or you could Google play days and find them. Jenny, thank you. I look forward to continuing to listen to you and may we play together someday. Yes, yes, I'm so glad we've connected. Thank you so much for being here. Take care. Bye bye. Keep playing.