LIVE from The NFL Combine Day 3, Longtime NFL reporter Albert Breer stops by, NFL Films Sr Producer Greg Cosell joins the show

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security. one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecow, 3NOW Podcast. How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well. We are back in Arizona off a little sleep and ready to enjoy some sun. Get out of the freezing cold weather. I guess it honestly wasn't that cold. I've been to Indy when it's definitely been colder and snowing, so we avoided that. But today we will talk to Albert Breer, who is an information gatherer in the National Football League. And we will also talk to Greg Cosell, who knows quarterbacks as well as anybody. And it turns out he was friends with Bill Walsh. So we'll talk to Greg Cosell. That will be the show today on this Fugazi Friday because your boy is out of gas. so we banged out some interviews when we were there and that's what we will do today so we'll go with albert breer and then greg cosell you guys know the drill subscribe to the podcast wherever you may listen uh you can catch obviously all the video up on netflix and enjoy let's dive into breer okay here with uh mr information albert breer i uh i watch your mailbags on youtube all the time and uh i've obviously colin you just you feed me full of information so this is obviously a big week for people like you yep coming in uh what's the buzz out there on the street right now yeah i mean i think this is like a interesting off season um i think the free agent market is what what it's always been um or has been for the last few years where the caps escalated to the point where if you want to keep a guy you generally can so you're starting to hear about tags, right? Like, so George Pickens, Alec Pierce, Brees Hall. It winds up becoming a really thin market. And so I think that that goose is the trade market, creates some more conversations between teams where teams that have needs that they need to fill have to get a little bit more creative. And then, you know, I think like, for me at least, like over the last couple of weeks, I'm just trying to cram and learn as much about the draft class as I possibly can. And that's interesting, too, because I feel like there are a couple of stories in this year's draft. I mean, the first one, I think, is that it's Fernando Mendoza and then who the hell knows a quarterback. There may be only one answer. And if that guy's going first overall, it's going to leave a lot of teams, you know, in March looking for some sort of answer, whether it's a bridge or something else, a quarterback, you know, and then at the very top of the draft, you don't have like the prototypes like the cyborgs. You know what I mean? There's no Calvin Johnson receiver. There's no... Miles Garrett. Miles Garrett. Panay Sewell. Defensive end. You know, there's no Panay Sewell tackle. So, you know, it's... For the teams at the top, it's sort of interesting, like, where once you get past Mendoza going to the Raiders, you know, the Jets, the Titans, what do these teams do? Are you comfortable taking David Bailey or Arvel Reese, you know, as edge rushers? Arvel Reese is kind of more of like a Micah Parsons hybrid. Are you comfortable taking Spencer Fano that high? or do you look at it and do you go non-premium position with a Jeremiah Love or a Caleb Downs? You know, I think it's interesting from that standpoint, although it does sound like from what I can gather, there's some good depth. So like once you settle into bottom of the first round, second and third round, you can do some really good work. Okay, let's just start with Fernando. I mean, I'm biased. I'm a big spy tech guy. Last year was weird, obviously, the Pete thing. The quarterback, you've covered a lot of the Brady situation. He lives in Florida, so it's not like he's in the building every day. You get drafted. I mean, Indiana, you're an Ohio State guy. Indiana turned into Ohio State in like two years somehow. It doesn't get much better than what he did. The Raiders have a lot of issues. The Max Crosby thing hanging over. Just your thoughts on Fernando going to a team that's obviously not that good. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because I do a big thing every year with DJ and with McShay and kind of have them. Like, I had them. I was like, so where do they, these guys, where would Fernando rank historically? And this is sort of what I've gotten from teams too, is that, like, he would be in the class two years ago and would have been fourth. Behind the big three and ahead of McCarthy, Penix, and Knicks. Yeah. You know, and then you look back a few more years, and it's like, well, over the last five years, where would he be? Fourth or fifth, you know, depending on how you look at him versus Cam Ward. So he's a really good prospect, worthy of going first overall. I think the question that the Raiders are going to be asking internally is, we think he can be like a top 10 quarterback. Can he elevate and become a top five quarterback? And, you know, what do you need to do around him to get him there? And the comp I've heard that I like the most is Goff. You know, you hear some of the Matt Ryan too. can you do you see yourself in five years paying somebody like that and who knows what it's going to be $75 million, $80 million a year life's good is he going to get to a second contract with you so those are the sorts of questions you're asking he's a really good player I think in an era now where we're seeing these quarterbacks get to the second contracts and it's almost like if it's your own guy you draft and develop and you have to pay him at the top of the market so like you know what Jordan Love and Justin Herbert gets affects what Tua Tungvaloa gets so now you got Tua on top of the market deal and now that looks different once he's not on his rookie deal anymore and you can't put as much around him and now he doesn't look like the same player these are all the sorts of arguments that like you're going to have to make on Fernando Mendoza if you're in that room and You're going to have to kind of play devil's advocate with a lot of that stuff. Or does Tom Brady look at him and identify with him and say, you know, chip on his shoulder, Cal, you know, leaves Cal, goes to Indiana. Like he's kind of got, you know, and again, DJ and McShay made this point. Both of them made this point to me. Like there's like a lot of like kind of parallels between him and Brady, tall, accurate, sees the field well, all of that. So I know I gave you a lot there. And I know where DJ and McShay come at it from like a 20,000-foot view. And if I view it from the lens of like I lived in the Bay for a long time, what Shanahan likes, and now Kubiak's there. They, you know, the Cam Ward, the traits, Matt, I've been around Andy Reid. They like traits. The Shanahans' accuracy, smarts, they're going to like Fernando Mendoza and Kubiak offense a lot. Yeah, they like having the joystick. I think Fernando Mendoza would shine for a lot of the Shanahan-type guys. Like I think now their offense isn't quite set up. They need some receivers. The running back, again, I'm going to spike that guy. Disagreed with the value, six overall for the little guy. I mean, there's a lot of pressure on him to be a really, really good player. But he is a talented player, showed some signs at the end. I think he fits that offense really, really well. I think that's fair. He can move. And, again, he's really accurate. He sees it fast. He sees it well. Clutch plays, too, in big games. And, you know, I do think, like, if you look, and I think one of the biggest criticisms we're going to hear on him is the amount of RPOs that Indiana ran. Top running team in the country, right? Yeah, but you saw some things in big spots where he made big throws. The Penn State game I think is probably the most obvious one. But in the Ohio State game, the throw he made, I think there was Charlie Becker down the sideline to put my guys away. I was in the stands for that one. I mean, that was a really high-end Ohio State defense, with four guys who I think will be first-round picks in this year's draft and maybe more in the next couple drafts that he was going against, and he was making big plays in the passing game down the stretch of that game. You do see it in spurts, and it's just I think you have to trust that that's going to grow and there's going to be more of that as you go. Did you watch the John Elway doc on Netflix? Yeah. Those guys got hit in the 80s. It looked like a UFC fight. Yeah. And that, honestly, one of the most impressive things in Fernando Mendoza's career is the first play in the Ohio State game when he got hit like it was 1980 in the NFL. Two plays later, he's back in the game. It was Caden Curry, I think, hit him, right? I mean, he got clocked like the dude on the, like, Sarkin in the hockey game. His little brother came in. And, yeah, exactly. He ran one play and he came back. I could see Brady like, because that's the NFL. That's what Brady, and that I think is what Brady is going to look for. Like, I know this. Like, I remember, you know, covering Brady when he was a younger player, and he changed over the years and sort of there was a self-preservation to his game. But if you watched Brady when he was young, he took monster hits. And I remember talking to his coaches and how they said he gives the receivers the line. He gives them an extra second. He gives everything an extra second. Gives the lineman an extra second to block. Gives the play an extra second to develop. Gives the receivers an extra second to get open because he's willing to take the hit. And that was Brady when he was young. Now, of course, it changed. I think after the ACL, like there were, I think he realized, like I'm not going to last going this way. But that's who Brady was when he was younger. It was one of the most important pieces of his game. And, I mean, I saw that hit. Like it looked like. I thought he was dead. I mean, honestly, I bet the stadium thought he was out for the game. And their season was over. Right. I mean, I thought Ohio State at that point was going to win 45 to nothing. You know what I mean? Like obviously I was mistaken on that one. But his toughness, I mean, that's a huge part. I think it's the most underrated part of the quarterback. Even today, you don't get hit as – you've still got to be tough. Right. And he is. And speaking of tough, the biggest story with the Raiders is Max. And, you know, out on the street, the buzz. I know Spitex, they clearly love it. Like, he represents everything you'd want to play. He's probably one of the most well-respected players by every coach in the NFL. Right. But how do they not – I mean, he's 28, 29, had some injuries. I heard you talking about it last week. Like, you know, is Mark it still pretty – I think you get two first-round picks because of the amount of teams that would be bidding on him. Yeah, I mean, I think the question with him, so most of the guys who've been traded for two first-round picks have been, like, smack in the middle of the prime of their careers. So Max is a little different than that. It costs a lot, though, but Max and Micahs. Max is going to be 29, right? Max has finished the last three years injured. Doesn't mean he's injury-prone, but facts are the facts. He's finished the last three years injured. So that's a piece of it, too. You know, and it's how does he project going forward. Now, the upshot of it is his contract is tradable. and his contract gives his new team control. And if he's not going to be pounding the table for a contract adjustment, if he's happy to go with his existing contract somewhere else, well then you could look at it and say we'll get three good years out of him. We'll be able to get at least three good years out of him. So I don't know about two first-round picks, and the only thing that gives me pause there, John, is the age piece of it. And it's just historically you look at it, and the Khalil Max, the Micah Parsons, those guys were at the end of their rookie deals when those things happened. The difference, though, is with those guys, you obviously had to trade the two first-round picks, but then you had to give them historic extensions. Yeah. Right, this is different. The money part is actually, so you might have to, I think with the two first-round picks, it's like a house seven people want to buy. I think all the good teams would be interested in Max Crosby. So you get three, like how many people were really bidding for Micah because he had to sign the contract. Right. So it's kind of a unique deal. I mean, and part of that's sliding, too, because some of those deals, like the Cleo Mack deal, the Micah Parsons deal, those happen in training camp. Yeah, true. So you don't know what that first-round pick is. Now, I think the two Super Bowl teams will be involved if he becomes available. 100%. And those two teams have the 31st and 32nd picks. That means they're not going to get away with just, Whereas if you have the 20th pick or you have the 15th pick, then obviously that's going to change the value. And the fact that we know where those picks are versus some of these guys that got traded during training camp where a lot of it's guesswork, changes the equation too. Les and Sean have the 13th pick because Atlanta, they've been known to do some crazy stuff. Do you think Max gets traded? I don't know just because I know Max is really principled. I know he's got the loyalty to Mark Davis, the loyalty to the Raiders, the desire to be a one-team guy. I also know he had a good conversation with Clint Kubiak. My question, like the Tom Brady, Alex Guerrero, that whole part of it, can they get that ironed out? Can they get that? Because I do think that there was a part of it for Max, and this is just me talking, but I think for Max, a big piece of this is what does he have to compete for if he hasn't been competing for championships, which the team hasn't been good enough for him to compete for championships. All pros, statistical benchmarks, being able to say, I answer the bell every week for my teammates. and I think like last year he kind of felt like that was taken away from him you know and is he going to hold on to that I don't that's the part that's really hard to project like how long does he hold on to that um and then I think the other piece of it too is like we're here these teams are talking to each other like does what people are whispering to the Raiders affect it too you know what I mean like where if the Raiders don't think the market is as hot as people think for them think it'll be for him like does that affect their well their willingness to go back in and try to mend fences one takeaway i had from yesterday is i think most people casually think oh they don't like aj brown he's a big pain i think the eagles internally like aj brown yeah i think the players like him the coaches like him i the view on the outside is different i think than the inside i just thought like well he's older makes a lot of money just get they have to give him away for like i i actually don't think they're just giving him away like i came away like i think this aj Brown thinks a little more complicated than people just assume. Is that fair? Yeah. I mean, I think it's – look, they've got some cap issues coming down the pike. That's true. And they've got some things that they're going to have to clean up. And, you know, the way you clean those things up is you move older players off the roster and get really young players on the roster. And he's done that over the last couple of years. Yeah, and I think that that part of it can't be ignored. that it's, well, like if somebody's offering a first-round pick and something else for him, which I don't know it'll be offered at this point because I do think he's lost a step. I think he's still a really good player, but I think he's lost a step. But if somebody comes to you with a first-round pick and say a fourth-round pick or whatever, that's two players that are going to be on your roster for cheap. You have to take the cap hit. But I think that stuff can be overblown sometimes too, just in that, well, you're going to have to take this cap hit. It's like that's not disappearing if you hang on to him. Like that's going to like that mortgaged money that's sitting there on your that's eventually going to hit. Like so one way or the other, you're going to have to account for it at some point. Makes it interesting I with you I think he a good guy who liked in the locker room all of that I think Jalen Hurts has more problems in that regard than A Brown does I think that's one where Howie can kind of sit back, and I don't think he needs to shop him. I think people will naturally come to him, and then he can assess it from there. The team in your backyard, do you think they were kind of rattled by how the Super Bowl went? or is it one of those it turns out i think well i think if you look at the way that they handle the trade deadline um they were playing really well and i still think that there was a caution we're not there yet and a realistic look at the roster and like looking at it and saying well this is great and we're doing awesome but is this really like the roster that we'll be able to sustained for the next five years. And the reality of it is at receiver, they're relying on Stephon Diggs and Matt Collins. At tight end, they're relying on Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper. Their right tackle is Morgan Moses. They're older in a bunch of positions. And I think there's a little bit of a cautionary tale there to some degree with the commanders last year, where the commanders got old in a hurry. Fast. And it went from, all right, this stuff's all working out. Now we're all in. We're trading for Lattimore. We're trading for Devo. or trading for Tunsil, they got old. And what happens to teams that get old? It gets ugly. They get hurt. They get hurt. They get hurt. And so now you've got the injuries. Now they're getting beat up. And now you look at it, and I think they've only got five picks. So they're going to have to move around to create. The Texans have their second-round pick. It's like pick 37. Right, right. So you're looking at all of these moving pieces here. And, you know, so I think for the Patriots, they have sort of taken this approach, we're staying the course, and we're going to keep building. And that doesn't mean they wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity like a Max Crosby. I think they would. But I believe they've got 11 picks. And, you know, I think the intention has been, like, to build something sustainable. And I think they also recognize that there are a few of those key positions where they're already kind of naturally older and they're going to need younger players soon. A couple quick newsies questions before we get out of here. the news on Davis Webb yesterday from the outside. I know you're pretty dialed in on this. It looks like fires Lombardi. He maybe could have got the Cardinals or one of those type jobs. He had to, like, promise him the play calling to keep him around. Is that a fair assessment of that situation? Yeah, I think it wasn't as Andrew Siciliano trips over his credential there somehow. He held it together. I guess if I was doing the Olympics for the last three weeks, I'd be worn out too. Yeah, so I think, you know. Were you surprised by that? Did you know that was coming? Had you heard that? I would say it wasn't. I don't think it was just the head coaching situations. It was also like the Giants that kicked tires on them as a coordinator, the Ravens that kicked tires on them as a coordinator. They were going to lose them. I think what's fascinating about it is you just look at it and where they're at now. and like it's not like sean payton failed as a coordinator failed as a play caller and that's been his calling card for a quarter century so i think it shows you how he values davis webb on his staff how maybe bo nicks values davis webb on his staff because you really look at that and it's like that's not an answer for the next 10 years if davis webb does a good job yeah he's gonna be gone you know and so now what do you do do you go back to sean calling the plays i i think it's fascinating from that standpoint in that it's not a guy who is failing as a play caller. He's one of the best play callers of his generation. It's something he's done, has been central to his job for 25 years, like going all the way back to the Giants, you know, when I was in college. And you turn it over to a guy who, I mean, realistically, if he does a good job, is going to put you in a position where you're going to be looking for another play caller, whether it's Sean or somebody else in the air, too. Well, obviously, Tomlin next year will be in the mix. He's going to be one of the main candidates, if he wants to. Who knows? Maybe he's just so rich and over it all and just goes to TV star. I watched some of the Ravens press conference. Anthony Weaver, I was like, God, this guy sounds like a head coach. Yeah, he does. But Davis Webb, it feels like, is going to have a ton of momentum if the Broncos are good to be one of the top candidates next year. Yeah, I think he was squarely in it. I'd say he was the runner-up for the Raiders job. Not saying that Clint wouldn't have gotten it if Davis hadn't pulled his name out, but I know he was a really strong candidate there. Phillip Rivers? Davis. No, I'm saying, but is Phillip Rivers another guy, candidate for next year? So I'm going to be interested to see if Phillip Rivers goes to NC State, because his son just committed there. And I think Phillip has a desire to eventually coach in the NFL. I know there were only a few teams he was willing to listen to. He was willing to kind of go out there for, and the reason why, and it's not like an arrogance or anything like that, I think it's really important for him to finish coaching his son. And I remember having a conversation with him, and this is probably when Gunnar was 11 or 12 years old, and he was still playing for the Chargers. And he said to me, and I asked him the retirement question, and he basically said to me, he was like, well, I am on a timeline here. He's like, my dad coached me in high school. I want to coach Gunnar. I want to coach my sons, plural. I want to have that experience that my dad had. I want them to have the experience that I had. And so I think, like, the ability to coach his son his senior year in high school is important. And I do wonder, with his son now committed to NC State, is that where he winds up? And if NC State were to make a change after this, that's one to watch where it's like, does he look at it and say, I'm going to go be the head coach at NC State for the next four or five years and then coach my son, maybe coach both my sons through that, and then go to the NFL. I think it's an interesting thing. Schefter puts out the Trent Williams thing about 30 minutes before John gets up on the podium. I would imagine, I don't know if the 49ers would want that out, so maybe Trent, I mean, the going back and forth there, what do you make of that situation? I think just in the middle of a negotiation. I mean, I'm like, I think they've been through this with Trent so many times now. They've obviously got a lot of experience with uncomfortable contract negotiations. I think it was a consecutive summers where it was like Bosa. Happens every year. It was Debo, Bosa, and Iuke, right? Like in three consecutive off seasons. So they've dealt with these situations before. They've dealt with them with Trent specifically. I just think he's too freaking important. Like I would argue he might be the most indispensable player in that team, including the quarterback. and I think Brock's a really good player. But I think he makes a decent offensive line look better than it is. He's that good a left tackle. And so I think he knows it. And I think every year now I think you're kind of in that position where it's like, okay, what do we need to do to get him back? And I know how much Kyle thinks of him. I would think they're going to do everything they can to get him back. Last but not least, the Sam Darnold situation, the impact that had on Minnesota, how cool of a genuine human interest story, him winning. It had a lot of ripple effects throughout the league. I mean, you've been covering the league a long time. You ever seen a, like, basically in the dirt? It had an Alex Smith vibe, but Alex Smith never won that many playoff games, let alone win the Super Bowl. I mean, I just don't remember. And a guy that was, like, universally liked. It's not like kind of an a-hole, you know. Everyone loved him. You go back to the Jets people. You go back to the Panthers people. Like, everyone loves Sam Darnold. Did that have lasting impacts on the Minnesota situation, or is that overblown? Yeah, I mean, I think one thing you look at, again, like I talked about earlier, like the almost automatic you have to pay. If you draft and develop a quarterback and it works out, you almost have to pay him at the top end of the market. There's no B-level quarterback contract. I think some teams look at what happened with Sam, and it's like, well, wait a second, they got him at half of what Dak cost, right? So Dak is at $60. They got Sam after that at $30. And why? Because he played really well for Minnesota. Why did they get him at that rate? Is it just because of perception? Is it just because he's not the former first-round pick anymore? Because he's changed teams? And so I think there's that element of it, you know, what Baker, what Tampa wound up getting Baker for. We'll see what happens with Daniel Jones in Indianapolis. But I do think, like, there's – if I'm a team, the way I'm looking at it, and I think some teams are thinking this way. you know it's more like do I feel like I have to take a quarterback in the first round of the draft or if I'm 80 percent of the way there on a guy but I maybe don't think he's going to be great am I better off having like a high-end high-end high-end bridge like a former first round pick come in and be that guy I actually think like maybe the best example of it was Alex Smith because when Andy Reid went and got Alex Smith if you remember they had the first overall pick that year in 13. And I remember there were people who thought, like, oh, they're going to take Geno Smith. E.J. Emanuel was the only first-round quarterback that year. If they had forced it, what that would have looked like instead of just taking Eric Fisher and then having Alex Smith. And what Alex Smith allowed for them was Alex Smith gave you a good level of quarterback play. You were a playoff team. It allowed you to establish a program. You were building your roster up. And then you got to the point eventually where it was like you could just survey. You weren't forced into a single year where it's like, yeah, we have to get him now. So it was like, all right, we don't like this year's quarterback. We don't like, oh, that guy right there, Mahomes. Like, let's keep an eye on him. It gave them the flexibility to kind of cherry pick when they were going to go get their franchise quarterback. And I think there's a lot of power in that. I think the worst place you can be in is, like, you're pigeonholed into a single year. Like, if you're a team that needs a quarterback now and you don't have the first pick, you're not the Raiders. Screwed. I mean, what do you do? Malik Willis. Yeah, I mean, what do you do? And, like, that's the thing is, like, if you have, like, that bridge, you're not forced into that sort of position. Okay, last question. I know you like big-picture league questions. I was talking to Howie yesterday just about how much this event has changed. And then last night had a few Tito's sodas with some GMs, and they said every interview, 90% of the kids are like, yeah, not really going to work out, not going to do anything. And they're just like the league. And, again, they're not even mad at it. But, you know, you've talked about moving this event. This event's importance for the interviews and, obviously, the coaches being here. The league likes all that stuff. but is the combine going to exist in like 10 years? I don't know. I mean, I think it will, but I don't know what form it's going to exist in. I think to some degree the league shot itself in the foot a little bit. If they had just left this for what it was and stopped trying to turn it into something it's not, then I think you probably still have a really good thing here. I think with the element of just commodifying everything and trying to, like, hey, how do we turn this new event or that new event? How do we – like, the players have agency now. You know what I mean? And the players are coming into the league. These guys have already made money. You know what I mean? So how is a guy like that going to think? Well, I think Marvin Harrison a couple years ago was the turning point. Marvin Harrison came in and he was in the first class of high school athletes to go into college and be NIL as true freshmen, right? And Caleb was in that group too. And high NIL. Right, right, and high NIL. And so he came into it and for three years now he had been thinking about things through that lens. It's like, look what I've done the last two years. Why am I going to go work out? Like all I can do is hurt myself there, you know? Why would I not want to do it in the most comfortable environment? Where is the proof that there's something? And at the time, he's a top five pick. So it's like, don't I have a lot more to lose than I have to gain? I run slow. So, yeah, I mean, I have way more to lose than I have to gain. The best thing I can do is just do everything in the most comfortable environment and confirm what people think of me and then be done with it. And so I think some of that stuff, what you're talking about, is a result of the players having more of a business mindset and having been through that, like viewing themselves as like, no, I'm a commodity too. And I have to treat my, I have to handle myself that way. And so, you know, I think it's looking at all these little things as part of the process with more scrutiny. And again, like, it's not going to be the same for a guy who's going in the top 10 versus a fourth round. A fourth round pick should be doing everything here. The fourth round pick, like all 32 teams are here. This is my chance. You know, if I think I'm going to do well in the drills, do it here. Shows how competitive I am. If you're a top 10 pick, what motivation do you have? Other than being a quote-unquote competitor, that's really it. One more quick league one, the international series. I've been saying forever, you've talked a lot about this. I think in a couple years the league is going to sell a 10, 15-game package Thursday night all over the Australia thing. Australia's cool, and I get it. They love sports, and it'll do cool. They've got to fly like 18 hours to Australia, and I get it. It's week one. And it does feel like Roger, one of his lasting impacts, his last hurrah of growing the league, he thinks they're going international. I mean, they've already gone, but we are going to be more of an international sport. Can that even work? Yes. I think they see. Do teams like it? I mean, I think they see. If you look at, like, I would urge people to look at the Premier League viewership numbers. 750 million people watch that game. Like a regular season game, dwarf the NFL. and I think that's what they're looking at some of these teams have worked with some of the soccer teams there's cross ownership there Jed of course is one, obviously Stan Kroenke owns Arsenal, the Glazers in Tampa they own Manchester United I think it got to a point early in Rodgers' tenure this is a big picture thing, early in Rodgers' tenure so you're talking his first year is 06, 08, 09, 10 they sort of came to the conclusion and we're killing it domestically. So we can't grow up anymore, so we have to grow out. And that meant adding inventory. How do you add inventory? You go back to L.A. with two teams. You add all of these international markets. You go to 17 games. You expand the playoffs. Thursday Night Football. Thursday Night Football. All that is is adding inventory for people to buy from them. And so, like, if this commissioner's charge, if Roger Goodell's charge was $25 billion in annual revenue, and it looks like he's going to get there. Yeah, he is. Like, the way to do it was never sit on our hands and, like, do things the way they've always been done, which was plenty lucrative. Yeah. If his charge was for the new breed of owners was, no, like you go and operate like a Fortune 500 company. You go and operate like one of the big tech companies. This is the way to do it. In five years, Brian Rolap will take over a $50 billion industry. We'll see. We'll see. Thanks, Albert. All right. Thanks, John. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida's sportsbook. I know it's tough when no football makes me sad. But like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet, there's always something every single night. Hoops, hockey, so much more. Plus, all the great same-game parlay, live betting, and player prop options you're used to. And did you know that Hard Rock Bet is the official sports betting partner, the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sports book whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado, and Michigan, come to the states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won 100 bucks on your bet, you make $200. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets, not a cash offer. Offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC and all other states. You must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 1-833-PLAYWISE. In Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9-WITH-IT. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the case of Lucy Letby we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was No voicing of any skepticism or doubt It cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive into my main man, Greg Cosell. Okay, here with Greg Cosell, as Colin likes to say, a football meat sandwich. And I've been talking to you over the last couple days. We've got a lot going on. How many combines is this for you, do you think? My first one was 1999. It's been a while. It's been a while. 1999, there might have been like three national writers that were at the Combine. That was it. Really pretty crazy. I was talking to someone the other day. Football, I mean, it's kind of sad. I mean, we still love the games and watch the games. You break them all down. It's become a lot of this. I mean, it's a television show. Oh, it's an event. Yeah. It's an event. As much as it is the game. And this thing is a, look at all these digital shows. I know. That's the one thing you notice. It's not just, no radio shows. These are digital shows. Digital shows, I know. That means I've got to see my face. That's tough. So where do we start? The draft class. Right. The quarterback. Fernando Mendoza, thoughts? Well, you know, it's funny. Obviously, I feel like the Super Bowl was just played yesterday, so I'm just getting started. Although what I normally do, John, is I get a baseline. Every summer I'll watch maybe 120 guys that are likely to be in the draft the next year. You know how it is, 20, 25 guys drop out for whatever reason. But at least I get a baseline of guys. So right now I'm just getting into it because of my NFL work. I can't really start until maybe mid to late January. So I've done Mendoza in detail. It's an interesting study, and you know this because this is what you do too. It's an interesting quarterback study because we've reached a point where people just say a quarterback has great traits because he can throw it hard and he can run around. And then I keep thinking to myself, that's not really the key to playing quarterback in the NFL. So when people look at Mendoza, they don't see a guy that necessarily has a hose and can run around. So they're a little uncertain as to how he fits into being a quarterback prospect. But he kind of knows how to play the position. To me, quarterback, and I was very fortunate in my career, or maybe the best thing that ever happened in my career was Bill Walsh taught me the quarterback position. So when I watch quarterbacks, I think about the subtlety of it, the detail, the nuance, the discipline craft element of it. And, well, I'm not going to sit here and say Mendoza's a perfect prospect, but he plays it more like that than the guys who just, you know, have the hose and run around. And I'm not sure a lot of people really understand that that is a really important part of playing quarterback consistently at the NFL level. You think Bill Walsh would have liked Fernando Mendoza? Yeah, I think he would have. Can you go back to the Bill Walsh relationship, how that started? Yeah, oh yeah. I've never heard that. I got assigned, you know, back in the day, you know, working at NFL Films, and I did a lot more documentary-type films, and I got assigned to do a Bill Walsh project. And my boss at the time said, you know, we want you to do it because, you know, you love football, and you go out and, you know, meet Bill Walsh. So I went out. What year is this? Oh, he was not coaching in the NFL. Early 90s, maybe? Early 90s, maybe, yeah. That sounds about right. So I go out and do what I'm doing. In fact, I remember what we did. I went out and I brought film. It wasn't coaching tape because we didn't have it, but film of like 20 quarterbacks, going back to like Johnny Unitas. and basically it was just Bill put the camera on, he's watching on a big screen, all these quarterbacks, maybe 20 quarterbacks, and just commenting on them. Just let him go, free form. So we're done with it and I don't know, for whatever reason he must have saw something in me or liked me and he basically said, hey let's go out to lunch. And I'm like, you're talking to me? And obviously I've got a cameraman there, a sound man from films and the whole deal. And he and I just went out to lunch. And, I mean, I didn't have much to say. He's just talking and I'm listening. But that happened like four or five times in my career where I was just with Bill Walsh like that. And it just, I mean, what I learned. So when I watch quarterbacks, I think about doing it the right way on every play. I don't think in terms of, man, he can run around. Now, we know the game's evolved and changed, and defenses have gotten a little more detail, a lot more detail. They do a lot of different, you know, we know all that. So the element of movement can be a factor, but obviously you can be great without it. I mean, look at Tom Brady. He didn't have to run around to be great. But the point is that that's what I think about when I watch quarterbacks. I think about playing the position the absolute right way on every snap. You know this. Coaches don't roll the ball out and say, hey, let's run around today and see what happens. You know, everything is detailed. I think if we, when I, Super Bowl week, we went to this, like, event for the 1989 49ers. Right. And on stage, it was Joe, Ronnie, Jonathan Taylor, who's actually sneaky, very underrated. The plays he would make, Jonathan Taylor could fly. Harris Barton. You're talking, no, you're talking about the receiver, John Taylor. John Taylor. Right, right. John Taylor. Yeah, yeah. And he made some plays. They kept talking like, this guy's one of the most. He had those two 99-yard touchdowns against the Rams. Just because he played with Jerry Rice, got overshadowed a little bit. You're watching him fly. You're like, this guy in this league today would have been incredible. But I think let's just take like three of the best five quarterbacks of all time. Joe, Tom, Peyton. They couldn't. Joe was much more athletic than those guys. Joe had athletic feet, but he wasn't a runaround guy. Yeah, it was accuracy, timing, understanding, knowing like it's okay to dump the ball. That's the quarterback position. Exactly. Yeah. Has that been lost, do you think, in the NFL a little bit? I don't think it's been lost among coaches. I think it's been lost the way that media people and fans talk about it. But it's not lost amongst coaches. So, like, the two Super Bowls that Patrick won a couple years ago, in those two years where their team wasn't as explosive, it's like the 19th team, I look because I was doing a segment. He had one turnover in those seven playoff games. I bet if you went back and watched, he was closer to a game manager, and they hate that term, but just like managing the game, making sure I don't screw up. Right. They beat the Ravens. They scored 17 points. Right. I bet Bill Walsh would have been like, that's the best that kid's ever played in those seven games playing. Not the bombs to Tyreek Hill. No. But we love the bombs to Tyreek Hill. Well, everybody loves that. Yeah. But I'm just saying that's the position to win the game and the biggest games that are in the late 17 to 19. The efficiency of the position comes from executing the subtleties of the position play in and play out. Yeah. That's where the efficiency comes from. You know, and, you know, obviously, look, who thought, Walsh thought Montana was a great prospect, and not many others did at the time, because he saw it in a different way. You know, he wasn't worried about arm strength or what we now call today arm talent. You know, he wasn't worried about that. He was worried about the ability to play within timing, throw the ball accurately and and accurately meant precise ball location not just you know where do you throw it not not just oh i'm throwing it to you but where do you you watch these documentaries on the niners that he would like make them redo it if joe or steve was off by like a foot it's funny you say that because one of the things i did with walsh of the times you would talk is we went out and he brought out after they'd retired joe jerry rice and roger craig and we're doing a piece you know I'm out there and he's back coaching like Montana would make a throw and you go no Joe come on we're doing that again that ball I mean he was coaching him after they you know they were all retired you know like what would Bill Walsh say about like Caleb Williams who makes incredible plays in these biggest moments but it's pretty inefficient right games he would work every single day on his lower half because his lower half can be all over the place as you probably know yeah and he would work every single day on that because you know he just misses too many routine throws he can make special plays and and obviously his his arm in terms of the way the ball comes out of his hand is special but you know he just misses too many routine throws yeah to me you know I would imagine Ben Johnson the Bears the layups the basic stuff because if he can do that he can be a really good player right right and that to me all offseason it's the special down the he can do that in his sleep it's like hey a wheel route you gotta hit this guy in stride you know you got to be on time he can do that but but can you coach that up right it's a really hard balance I talked to a coach yesterday and you know and because I'm always fascinated by how you coach the quarterbacks that have the ability to make special improvisational plays because on the one hand you don't want to tell a guy never to do that but on the other hand those guys tend to leave throws on the field because they will leave the pocket too early because that's just the way that They feel innately. Russell Wilson started doing that. Yeah, yeah. He couldn't function. Now, his is a little different because of his size. Yeah, I couldn't see. But even Mahomes, Josh Allen, those guys will leave throws on the field within the structure of that particular pass design because for whatever reason, that's just who they are. So, you know, my guess is you don't want to tell them never to do that. But on the other hand, these coaches, as you know, work a lot. And if they design it and it's there and it's clean, you want the guy to throw the ball. Do you think that's why some of those guys with the Walsh roots, even if it's indirect, like Shanahan or Andy didn't work for Walsh, but he worked for home group, Alex Smith, you see the guys that Shanahan likes, the Kubiaks, Mike Shanahan, who I don't think work for Walsh, but work for Seaford, which all connect to. They can be cool with Jake Plummer or they like Kirk Cousins. They value things that go back to those roots at the core of their offense? As you probably know, you know, the way it is, let's say, with Kyle Shanahan, who obviously comes from his dad and comes down that tree, maybe it's not the pure Bill Walsh, but it's more that school, let's say. For those coaches, the star is the play caller. You know, in Kyle's offense, he's the star. He's the poster child of the team. Right. Whereas, let's say, a Josh McDaniels offense, he's giving the quarterback all the answers to the test, and the quarterback has to figure out which answers apply based on a given play call and what he sees from the defense. Whereas with Kyle, that's not the case at all. The quarterback, as you know, the quarterback doesn't do anything. He's not calling the protections. He's not changing plays. Now, granted, if he sees maybe an obvious blitz, maybe flip it. Yeah, yeah. But he's not really doing a lot. You know that. Yeah. The quarterback is the executor of the play caller's play. Kyle has said that he, and Cousins has talked about this, Cousins fought for it. He gave him the opportunity to do it. And, like, the next day, Cousins is like, that's crazy. I have, like, seven things on my plan. You take it back. Right, right, right. And there's only so many Peyton Mannings or Bradys who can do it at that high of a level. Correct. And that's what makes the position so crazy. Like, let's just say you flip Drake May and Brock Purdy. I think Drake may be pretty good for Kyle. I would agree. But the Purdy thing, the way they're playing, it would not probably look very good. Right? I bet Purdy could do it, you know, once he got. Yeah, but I just mean like you carry the offense, you play, it's all on you. It would be a lot. Well, right now if Purdy all of a sudden was dropped into a Josh McDaniels offense, he'd be lost because that's not the way he's been coached to play the game. Yeah. What's your take on Purdy? Because he's a pretty polarizing player. I know, and I don't know why. Walsh would have liked him. Yeah, I like Purdy. Again, people like Liss and is he the top five? I don't get into that. I think he can execute Kyle's offense at a pretty high level. And I think that's what the 49ers want. He can execute it at a pretty high level. I guess I didn't quite understand until I got here. Sean Mannion goes back to Oregon State. He's got pro-style roots as a player, as a coach. that that's what they're implementing with the Eagles. So the idea, you get rid of Stoutland, who's not that type of run game guy, that they are going to be a version of the Kyle Shanahan offense with Jalen Hurts. Is that the way you take it as well? That's what it sure seems like because of the people they brought in to coach on offense. So in their mind, they must believe that Jalen Hurts can do it. I'm not going to sit here and say he can or can. They think he can. I would say that the way Jalen has played up to this point in his career, that's not stylistically how he's played. You know, he hasn't been a true timing rhythm guy. So they must feel he can do it because that's what they've committed to. That's what their offense is going to be. Now, the question is, did they change that because of the run game? Because that run game in that offense is really good. You know, now you're going to see a lot more emotions. You're going to see a lot more pre-snap movement. You're going to see a lot of things that help the run game because you know that pre-snap movement and motions really help the run game as well. In many ways, they help the run game even more. What did you see when you were breaking down Jalen this year, the struggles came from? I mean, I don't know if it ended up this way, but at one point in time in December, they led the league in three and outs. I know. That's embarrassing. I know. That can't happen, not with those two players. You know, I don't think to me Jalen was any different than he's always been. I mean, you know, keep in mind when they won the Super Bowl, there were nine or ten games that year where he didn't throw for 200 yards. They're not a passing team. I mean, they had the historic running season by Barkley and the number one defense in the league, and Jalen never turned it over, and they were phenomenal on fourth down. So they were a sense of four-down offense. If they got past midfield and it became fourth or let's say four and less, three and less, they were going for it. every time and they would convert because that's where Jalen's mobility became a huge factor. Even if he didn't run, just getting him out of the pocket. Scrambling around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were not a passing team. So I don't think he was necessarily any different. Their run game was terrible, relatively speaking. Their O-line was bad. So the question becomes, can Jalen Hurts, and this is a tough question, because the reality is, and this is the answer you get, and you can't argue it, is they've been in two of the last four Super Bowls. He's played well in both. He was the MVP in one. And, you know, so when people say that, what do you say? Nothing. He goes, I got a ring and I got a lot of money. Exactly. And I'm a starter. Right. What do you say? But you know the Philly and I know Howie. Yeah. They like winning games now. Like Super Bowls a couple years ago. Right. And it's like, can he win games? You look in that conference. Well, that's why they made the change. Obviously, they think that this change will be a positive. You can't lose that Niner team. Sala rolled out me you and seven of us I know I know That got to be one of the worst losses in Eagles history When you look at the talent gap in the game I would agree and I sure that why major changes were made So to me like specifically with him he a dual threat quarterback who no longer wants to run. It seems so. Yeah, I mean, again, we're not in the building. I don't know if he tells the coaches. I'm just saying when you watch them, they don't call run plays as much anymore. No, they don't. The Niners could have been gashed by him. He's a great runner. I thought he was going to be a running back out of college because I thought he was a bad college as a prospect. But I thought this guy could be like Frank Gore because his natural feel. He's not like a Lamar speed guy, but he clearly just, I don't really want to do it. They had one run in that Niner game. I think they got called back. You could do this every play for like 30 yards. Yeah. And by the way, in 2022 when they went to the Super Bowl and lost to the Chiefs, that run stuff, the design running game was a huge part of their offense, huge part. But again, you know, I don't know. I don't know if he tells the coaches I don't want to run. I don't know the answer to that. But it'll be, that's going to be one of the most interesting things to watch is how that offense works, you know, which is obviously a totally new offense. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Band, Florida's sportsbook. I know it's tough when no football makes me sad. but like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet, there's always something every single night. Hoops, hockey, so much more. Plus, all the great same game parlay, live betting, and player prop options you're used to. And did you know that Hard Rock Bet is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sports book whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado, and Michigan, I'm coming to states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won 100 bucks on your bet, you make $200. Plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets, not a cash offer. Offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC, and all other states. You must be 21-plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 1-833-PLAYWISE. In Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9-WITH-IT. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, for a long time, I remember, like, when I first got in the NFL in, like, 2010-11, people were, like, that knew, were, like, Phillip Rivers is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I love Phillip Rivers. You know, and anytime, and again, this gets back to the Jalen things, like, well, I got a ring, I'm one of the best players. Like, well, this guy, people think this guy's better. We all kind of think Mahomes, even though he didn't play that well last year, but his resume speaks for himself. No question. Lamar and Josh's resume speak for themselves. Herbert's a pretty polarizing player because of the playoff games. I don't know where you stand. I think he can play for my team any day of the week. I agree with you, and I think most people in the league would tell you that he's incredibly gifted and that he's a really good player. Look, this year, I mean, he played behind arguably the worst offensive line of football. I mean, they were playing backups to backups to backups. I mean, you know, so. And he had a broken hand. I know. So we'll see. I mean, but, yeah, he's – you talk to people in the league, they don't have any issue with Justin Herbert. I think one guy who's really impressed me the last couple years, and McCarthy deserves credit for this, is, again, another guy playoffs, he had a three-year stretch where he just – two of the games against the Niners, he was not good. But Dak's really become a really good player. Yeah, yeah. And if they do a good enough job, like if the version of he's at right now was on some of those teams like three years ago, they would be a major factor. Again, if he just played well on the – I thought the year they lost to the Niners in the second round, if he had just played like he had been playing, they could have won the Super Bowl. Their defense was awesome. I've been impressed with Dak's growth as a player. But the point is what you're talking about is what we were talking about initially about the quarterback position because Dak is – well, he's not a statue. He's a pocket quarterback now. He doesn't move like he used to. No. So, I mean, why has he become a really good quarterback? Because he executes the nuances of the position. He plays the position at a high level from the pocket. Bill Walsh would like this version of Dak. Without question. Without question. You know, it's... And as you know, in college now, Mendoza is a little bit of an aberration, but college is not sending a lot of true pocket quarterbacks to the NFL. No. because, you know, Mendoza, and maybe this is an easy comparison, and it's not an exact one, but Mendoza would be more like the Jared Goffs of the world. He's not a runaround guy. Now, can he run in a straight line if he has to? Yeah, but he's not a playmaker. He's not like Russell Wilson to Sean Watson. No, he's not a playmaker, yeah. My question is, not that long ago, you just looked around the league, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, they all kind of looked the same, you know, 6'4", 6'6". Yeah. Where did that human being go? I know. Because he's not playing college or high school football. No, because... But they have to still exist on this planet. It's because what's happened now is it's like, look, I'm older than you. So when I grew up in my formative years in, let's say, the late 60s, early 70s, the two biggest sports in America were baseball and boxing. So where did the best athlete in baseball play? Shortstop. So now what's happening is the best athlete is playing quarterback. So now you're getting guys that are great athletes, so they can run, they can move. Maybe they have big arms. I mean, I would think a good example of that, you follow college football, right? Yeah. Would probably be the Texas A&M kid. Yeah, Marcel Reed. Yeah. You know, really good athlete, pretty explosive mover, big arm. You know, I haven't studied him. I don't know if he's a good quarterback or not. But, I mean, those are the kinds of players that now have become quarterbacks. And those guys, because they can run, you know, teams want to win. So whether you're in high school or college, the coach wants to win. So they use what he has, which is the ability to move and run. I think I read an article from like Bruce Feldman, coaches, because now we get a lot because the money's so big in college. Coaches kind of bounce back and forth. And one thing I think I read is, you know, why some guys, they bounce from the NFL to college, and it's a little difficult for them because in the pros, as a defensive coordinator, you defend the running back and the pass game. But in college, you defend the running quarterback, the running back, and the pass game. Right, right, right. It's a huge element of it. Well, and don't forget, too. Lamar Jackson, like five years ago, most people don't run that level offense in the NFL. The other thing about college, which makes it different, and you know this, is the hash marks. The wide side of the field in college is like the Grand Canyon. Yeah, it's big. So, I mean, you can do a lot of things to the wide side of the field that are incredibly difficult to defend. There's just too much space. Yeah. The NFL's not like that. No, it's not. It's tighter. Yeah. Before I get you out of here, this draft class, I mean, you watch general amount, especially the tough guys. Doesn't feel like a – No. Not a lot of Panay Sewells, Jamar Chases, Joe Alts. No, no. And other non-quarterbacks. I think – Like, are the Chiefs at nine going to feel pretty good? They're going to get as good of a player as a team at four? Like, what's the difference? That's my point is that it's not like there is like, oh, Joe Alts goes, and there's a huge dropout. What's the difference? Well, you know how the draft works. normally, there's probably in a normal year 15 to 18 players that have true first round grades. Yeah. I would bet this year there's 10. Yeah. And I think the receiver group, I've done 12 receivers, I'm done with them. I would bet that those 12 receivers, I'm not done with receivers, I've done with those 12. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would bet that those 12 are going to be in the eye of the beholder. You know, it depends on the guy and how you think he fits in your scheme, because I don't think there's a receiver and this is my what i feel based on the tape study of these 12 guys i don't think there's a receiver you're gonna go wow i gotta have that guy he can do anything you're not big on the usc guy you know relative to where you see yeah i mean again you know and i know i know what you mean by saying you're not big i i think that right i think that he's he's gonna probably be 5 11 195 he's not a super athlete he's not truly explosive yes he's very competitive the guy when I finished watching him who came to my mind was Khalil Shakir and you know I know fourth round pick I think who's been in fifth round out of Boise who's been a nice player by the way really good and is really good run after catch and that's who Lemon kind of reminded me of now I know some people are talking him up I mean, I saw someone compare him to Malik Nabors, and I'm thinking, come on. Yeah. No. Malik Nabors, different animal. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Malik Nabors, talent-wise. And by the way, the one thing about receivers, as you well know, is because teams throw the ball, and depending on the scheme, and a guy could come in the league and catch, Lemon could go to a team and catch 80 balls, and people say he's great. And I have no problem with that. But just as an evaluation of the player and who he is, he's not a top ten pick in a draft. But he might be. Well, you, Shakir, I was with some Lions people last night. Not anyone for the team, but people that cover the team. And we were talking about Amon Ra. These guys were all not drafted in the first round. St. Brown was a fourth round pick. Debo Samuel was a second round pick. Right, right. You can get these physical guys historically later in the draft. And then it depends. Look, Amon Ross St. Brown taking nothing away from him because I understand that as far as competitiveness and all that, he's off the charts. But he played in a Ben Johnson offense. That is maybe the best schemed pass game in the NFL in terms of, again, zone, in terms of spacing of routes, how it all works together, you know, the details of how you put together a pass game. He's really good, though. Yeah. No, I'm saying Ben. Ben is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, again, I'm not taking anything away from On Ross St. Brown. I'm not with him every day. I mean, he's probably great in so many ways. But if you just look at, like, pure talent, you're not going to say that he's Jefferson or Chase. What about Puka? Puka's a fascinating guy. He's big. He's physical. Have you ever seen a player like him? I mean, I guess on a certain level, and maybe I'm nuts, Debo, you know, at his best was similar. Wouldn't you say similar? Just because guys just fall off of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He runs through like Deidrean Peterson or something. But Puka, I mean, he's... Puka's a better route runner, probably. Yeah, yeah. He's a fascinating guy. I mean, he's turned into a great, great receiver. I think the problem, and I'll get you out of here on this, on players like that, you know, to invest in how much receivers cost, how long is their shelf life? Right, right. Because you go, you look at some of the outside guys, you know, like JSN, he's going to be able to play for a long time with his skill set. You look at Debo, it just ended pretty quickly. And, you know, Puka in the dominant fashion, like he's going to be able to maintain this for seven straight years? Like, I don't know. I mean, don't forget Puka, he's great, but, I mean, he's a physical player. That's what I'm saying. And he plays his you-know-what off. I know. Like how long can you maintain playing at 100%? Breaking tackles. I mean, the year he had the last couple of years is like, Jesus. No, he's better than I thought. He changed the Rams. Yeah, he's better than I thought he'd be. I mean, no question. He's probably better than pretty much everybody thought he'd be. Yeah, McVay included. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Greg, I appreciate you, and enjoy the rest of the combine. All right, appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. The Volume. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security. one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.