Vinnie Goodwill on Kobe's 81-Point Game: A Night That Changed Basketball Forever | 01.27

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, away from original. My name is Bo Manny Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is time machine. Tuesdays, we got a man Vinny Goodwill in from ESPN. What's going on, brother? Man was going on at least I don't have the title of Bo's biggest hater. Nah, nah, you don't, man, because you don't do that. That's not that's not that's not your inclination. That's not it's just you just that's not in your spirit and it's not in your soul. No, it's not, but I figured given today's topic for whatever reason. This thing makes people lose their minds. Yeah, so this is interesting. So you know, we do a time machine Tuesday. Now every Tuesday we go look back at something that is going on in sports and the world. This we are looking at as I want to make sure we got this date right on January 22nd, 2006. Go be bright, put up 81 points, including 55 in the second half over the Toronto Raptors. 81 points. The significance of the 81 is it is the second highest point total of all time behind Wilk Chamberlain. And what I think is interesting about that, like the Chamberlain part Vinny is that there's so many NBA records that are like the highest except for Wilk, where we just like we just have a host of things where if you get to be the closest person to Wilk, then it's like, oh, okay, good enough. But normally when that happens, it's like Wilk did it eight times or Wilk did it five times. Anybody else. We only scored 101. That's the only time Wilk went over 80. This is the second highest point total of all time in one game. And I think one thing that's interesting about it. And there's so many levels that we could get to about it. In fact, let's build up to the moment. Right. Like, let's build up to the game. And I think building to the game requires going to 2003. A couple of things happened in 2003. 1. three p ended, right? You follow the end of the Lakers three p with the additions of Gary Payton and Carl Malone as the Lakers went to make one more run. Kind of an understanding that this is going to be Shaquille O'Neill's last year with the Lakers and probably the first year that Shaq was not truly great anymore was probably that season. That is also the summer of Kobe being charged with rape in Eagle, Colorado. Okay. Oh, four. That is the ultimate super team didn't make it happen situation in the history of the NBA. I'd say even more so than the net situation with Kyrie and Kevin Durant and James Harden because they were just kind of in it out like there was a pandemic that was in the middle of it. It was a lot. This one right here, we live with the stress for all 82 games, right? Like the Lakers were the centerpiece of basketball coverage. And we watched it not look good. And then we watched Derek Fisher hit the miracle shot against the spurs and it looked like they were going to turn that around and they beat Minnesota and then the pistons who from a distance seemed like they would be no match. You falls into Troy. I believe called that the five game suite. Yes, that's what is that is the term right around these parts. Yeah, it's bow. And it was by the way. It felt like a five game suite. But it was an over it was the Lakers won that one game and overtime. Game two. Business just kicked their asses. Yeah, like no, the crazy thing is like you said, 2003 is a great starting point because remember that was the shack. I get hurt on company time. I recover on company time. He came in a camp really overweight and just didn't start, right? And that was where you got the glimpse of Kobe being able to carry a team. Remember, he had that 40 point streak. I want to say in January of 03, where you hit like 12 straight games of 40 points. He had the one game. I think against Seattle, where you had 12 threes. Now, y'all, I think we have been become desensitized about what 12 threes looks like. But in an office shooting league. Yes, 12 threes. When you have the complete offensive game that Kobe did and Kobe had like that was amazing. And then like you said, the precursor to everything in 04 Carmel on trying to get his one ring. Gary Peyton at that point trying to get his one ring. It was so weird because remember the preseason of that year. Shack. I think they were playing at Hawaii and shack wanted that extension. And I screaming at Jerry plants screaming at Jerry bus to pay me because you dumped on Jerome James or somebody like that was so it was it was very clear in hindsight. I didn't feel like it was clear in a moment, but it felt clear in hindsight. Man, that was this was going to be the last year of any of that. Like Kobe was going to be a free agent. Those guys were old and it led up to everything that we're getting to in 2006, which is Kobe as loan act pulling all of these feats off by himself, but it's going nowhere in a team construct. And what does that mean to him? Right. Cause look, Shack knew when they were not he were not going to extend him with one year left on his contract or whatever the whatever wherever they were. Come on, man. They were they told you and he knew it, right? And that led to that level of drama. We find out in the course of that season that Kobe talked about Shack when he was talking to the police. We had that like there was there's never been anything more dramatic at least in my life in terms of like it was the perfect combination of modern media coverage, plus the glamor franchise of the NBA, plus maybe the two biggest names in the NBA, plus you at these legends, plus you have the Phil Jackson thing, but they got their doors blown off in 04. Shack gets traded to Miami, Phil Jackson gets fired by patent's done, Carmel own retires because he suffers the first injury of his whole career because good gracious that man was durable. Um, all those things happen. Legas go through 0 405 Rudy time, Jonathan pitches the coach. They let go of him in the middle of that year. Kobe's hurt for much of that year. He doesn't think he gets sick. I think Rudy gets sick. Yes, he did. He did. He got sick, but they also what they want bringing them back, but he got yeah, yeah, Frank, Frank Hamlin, I believe, replaced him with what's the precursor to feel being back. You are correct. And that's the thing. It all the wheels came off and there was no bringing Shack back, but Phil Jackson, like, you know, when you're dating the owner's daughter, they get awkward, right? Well, you called your team and your Phil Jackson. That's a whole whole show to itself that we don't talk nearly enough about, which is the weird dysfunction of Phil Jackson existing with the Lakers, but they fired him in 04 and brought him back in 0 5 in between. He put out a book where he says that Kobe is unculturable. And now he has to coach Kobe again, except he's coaching Kobe. And I would like to take a brief moment to, um, pull up some names of some players who played on the 2005 2006 Lakers. I could also do this with the 2004 2005 Lakers if I wanted to, but let's just go to the team for the season that we are talking about. I am going to sort this list by minutes played, right? Or minutes per game. Kobe Bryant was first in minutes. Lamar Odom was second. Lamar Odom, very good NBA player. Third in minutes is Smush Parker, fourth is Kwabi Brown, fifth is Chris Mims. We're getting to Devin George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Sasha Viliachich, Laurent. Andrew, uh, a rookie Andrew Binal. Mm hmm. Guys, this team was Kobe and the Pips. Kobe and the Falky bunch. If we keep it in a book. Yes. This was Kobe was out there for Dole Lowe. And what it was and then created was the best of Kobe and the worst of Kobe, all at once, right? Yeah. If you put LeBron James on that team, especially that era of LeBron James, you put LeBron on that team and LeBron is going to figure out how to get some do some shots, get them into the places. They're going to seem like better basketball players than they ever seemed like. You know what's fun? That's not the Kobe Bryant approach to basketball. No, no, I will, I will say this. I don't know if LeBron takes those guys to 44 wins. Is that what was out there? 45, 45. That's a feat in that particular version of the Western Conference. Well, so that the trick bag in that discussion is the Western Conference variable because we saw LeBron take a roster somewhat similar to that to the NBA finals. I would venture to tell you that Larry Hughes and Zajunis El Goscis and Drew Gooden are better than Smush Parker. Lamar Odomaz as talented as he was was inconsistent as hell. And Andrew Biden was a rookie who showed modicum of flashes and Christmas. I would say I think, yeah, I get what you're saying, but I do think that Cavs team had had solid coaching and a good defense. These dudes were just dudes. That was just happy to be in the league. Yeah, I had a lot of those in Cleveland too, right? Like I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think there's, I think this room on both sides, like in the discussion, but the bottom line is Kobe Bryant was not looking at these guys thinking to himself, I got to figure out how to get more of him that out of him. That's that's not how he did things. He looked at them and was like, how much I'll give me to ball? All right, Kobe averaged 27 shots a game that year. No one else averaged more than 11. Trident. What is a triangle? What are you talking about? Well, this is why the last few years were so important is because Kobe felt like I'd spent all this time sacrificing in the name of Shaq, in the name of this team, in the name of winning. And then we add on Gary Payton and Carl Malone, you want to get them acclimated and I have to take fewer shots and everything else and the whole thing. Now it's my time to go for Dolo. Now it's my time to show y'all that I'm really good because at that time, and you can remember this, Bo, I don't know what side of this you sat on if you sat on this side. But at that time, there was reasonable discussion amongst reasonable basketball minds. Who's better? Trace him a grade year Kobe Bryant. I bet you that eight Kobe Bryant up inside. Completely ate him up inside. Also added to the fact that there was this young kid in Miami named Duane Wade who was coming up playing next to Shaq and playing for more high stakes basketball. So if Kobe knew this team lack of a phrase, ain't shit, I'm going to go out here and get my numbers. And I think that's the only thing in general for this season. That's not the next season. I think got a little tiring. But for this season, he hit those young legs. He was mentally free, shall we say? And he could go out there and score 50, 60. Like it wasn't just the 80 that year. That man legit, this might have been the single greatest scoring season since Jordan in 87, right? Yeah, I mean, I think when you consider the pace of play of 2006 basketball, I can make an argument that maybe it was more impressive. The Jordan shot at a much higher percentage in that season. But that I think that Kobe legitimately believed that him taking all that shots was the best chance they had to win. Like I think on one level, yeah, he wanted to get his shots off. But also what is his compelling argument for giving the ball to Wow, Aaron McKee will only play 14 games for them. Von Wafer, whoever it is, right? Like, like, why would I give them the ball? And in response, I don't have a great answer for that, right? He also had, would actually may have been more impressive than the 81 point game. And that was the game earlier that season against Dallas, where he scored 62 points in three quarters and the Mavericks scored 61 in three quarters. And he didn't play the fourth quarter. I think we have to put this into like proper context, especially considering what the NBA looks like now and what the NBA has looked like post 2015, right? Not just the three point shooting, but the pace of play. Yes, the average, I believe in 2006. I had to look this up. The average league average was 97 points a game that year. Like the previous NBA finals, which was Detroit, San Antonio, which was a slug fest. I believe the game seven score was 81 to 74. Yeah. And then the next year, Kobe does that granted completely different circumstances and everything else. But just the fact that like you said, pace of play offense was not prioritized. It was only the second year of Steve Nash's second, seven seconds or less with Mike DeAntoni. And that didn't really catch on. Like we look at it now and say, yes, since Phoenix started playing at anybody that really wasn't the case. There was a lot of resistance to that because Phoenix didn't get to the finals and they were really bad, defensively and everything else. So we were kind of sitting at this from a league standpoint, this middle ground where the advanced that's hadn't yet caught up to, you know, the skills and the eye testing everything else. And Kobe just out here saying, I take, I take every loan to you get for me. I take everything I will take, I will take it all. And nine times out of 10, it was because he could make them all, but that was the problem. He could make them all. So he took them all. Yeah, that I mean, he was making them all, but he could. And it is, I find generally speaking, the O6 season to be a touch polarizing because Kobe fans believe that to be his best season. And it's kind of, I would say his best season. It's, I mean, you shot 27 shots a game, right? So there's going to be some sheer volume at play when talking about that. And on one level, I don't think it's appropriate to blame him for the fact that those teams didn't win. But I also don't think that what he was doing in that case was playing winning basketball. Like I don't think the O6 version of Kobe was better than the O3 version of Kobe. I don't think any version of Kobe was better than the O1 playoff version of Kobe. I don't think that version of Kobe was better than 0809 Kobe, like that era of Kobe. That was just the one where he got to take all the shots. Well, the crazy thing is that's what like Kobe fans have this weird relationship with him in relation to like the rest of us, I guess, because they look at that as like you said, the Magnum Opus. If you put a greater team around Kobe, Kobe's version 35 and getting to the finals, not those two things that ain't happening quite like that. Like O1 Kobe was a freak because he got after it. Like he got after it on defense. He got after it as far as playing next to check and maximizing what that was and what that was going to be like that O1 Lakers team might be the single greatest team we've ever seen. Like in that, in to me, that goes up at his peak. At his peak. Yeah, yeah, that playoff. That's what I mean. That the fact that they beat, I think every team they played 150 games in the playoffs. And I think seven or at least six teams in the West one 50 games and they smoked every one of them. That gave Sacramento 48 and 17 and the clincher gave the dunk and Robinson spurs. Like they embarrassed the spurs in the Western Conference finals. I think games three and four, they were like 30 points by halftime. Like it was it was a laffer of how ridiculous they were making the lead look. So for people to say, oh yeah, this is Kobe's year. I think they they viewed this as the year Kobe should have won MVP. I don't view it that way at all. Like like she thinks he should have won that MVP. I don't think that's the case. Kobe thinks he should have won MVP. I don't think that's the case at all. I think by and large, those are nowhere near the egregious ones. But like you said, nowhere near what we consider Kobe Bryant as complete basketball player. Iler. But when he was on in that year, you could get 62 and three quarters. And when he was on in that year, you could put up 81 on Toronto Raptors and shout out to Jalen Rose because you would think that he gave all 81 of those to Jalen Rose with the way the internet has taken control of that game and narrative. Hey man, let me tell you something about that guy. And you watched it. You just got through watching it. Brother, everybody got a piece of that 81. He's like Oprah, you get a bucket. You get a bucket. It's like everybody. Mo Pete. My man Mo Pete for Michigan State. He ate a lot of those more than Jalen Rose did. He ate a lot more of those buckets in his grill than Jalen Jalen. Jalen got some work too, but it wasn't it wasn't Jalen. He didn't even take half of that. But when you get 81. So I think we're not. Yeah. So I think some important things to note about this game. Number one, this was a close game after three quarters. And it was close. No, number one, the Lakers were down 17 in the first half. Yes. Right. This was not one where they were just blowing their doors off from the beginning and there was stat hunting. No, the path to victory was Kobe getting these buckets. And and not just that Kobe had to bring them back into the game. I think they wanted to get in the close like right before halftime. They were still trailing by double digits, but it was like reason. I've been like 14 now. It feels like four. But back then 14 felt like you still got to have some Hercules and feats to get a win. Then in the third quarter, because he had 27 at the half, which seemed like an astronomical number. Then they were like, man, Kobe may need 50 to get this win. 50 might not have done it. You know what I'm saying? It might have been only 81. And then he started taking over even more in the third quarter where they took the lead, but it was still reasonably close. Like once you get, and I don't know how you feel about this, Bo. Once somebody scores 60, why would he pay it? Why would he pass the ball? I don't care if you up 20 at that point, you go forward. Luckily for Kobe and luckily for us, it was still a reasonably competitive game to the last five minutes. But when you get hot like that, no, go ahead, dog. You got a big dog shoot. It was you got it. And everybody knew what time it was like. And it wasn't like the last game of his career where that was different, right? This was simply, we know Kobe's going to get the ball every time. And he's going to get in these buckets. Like he was still messing around like he dribbled. I remember one play clearly for watching the game that night where he dribbled into the baseline and was trapped. And the game is over. And he just called a time out because we just getting these buckets, man. Everybody was invested in the fact that greatness was happening right now, right? This wasn't a manufactured moment. This was, a man, this dude is getting it. We're not, we're not going to let him get buckets. But we recognize like the Lakers understood this is what it is. And even if they didn't understand that was what it was, that was what the fuck it was going to be. Because there's no way in the world that Kobe was going to be playing like that. And then be like, no, no, no, no, no, let's go ahead and run the offense right now again. Remember the Dallas game, which was a month before that where he has 62 and the yeah, the the championship contending Dallas Mavericks had 61. He could have went for Dolor in that fourth quarter. And I'm not sure if that was a national TV game. It might have been a Sunday game. Maybe it was. Maybe it was. I can't remember it. But there was more of an impetus. And that one to go and embarrass the competition. And he was like, you know what, if I don't sacrifice already, no, I'm going for this one. Like in the crazy thing for me, Bo is when I think of 81, I don't think of that being the most impressive game of Kobe's career. I just think of that being like the most Kobe game of Kobe's career. Like if Kobe were to, if you're someone wants to ask Kobe, I'm sure somebody has like what game best encapsulates everything that you are. He would probably either say that chock fest of a game seven and against the Celtics, you know, where he's on six or 24 because you know, you we were a match to size that now. Or he would say to 81 because that's just what he was all about. And I got no problem with that. I think another level of it was this is pre it is after high speed internet really starts like moving into homes like really spreading. But before the immediacy of the smartphone and the immediacy of social media, right? People had a strong access to this game. But as I recall on Eastern time, it was like a Sunday night. Yes. Like this was not an I don't recall this being a naturally televised game. It wasn't. And there was kind of a slow creep of information spreading amongst people like, Hey, Kobe got 30 a half time, right? Or Kobe's got 29 a half time. Like people gradually finding out what was happening. And then it's like, okay, so if you really about the NBA, even if you don't have the league pass, you got like the sports package that let you get the Fox sports game or whatever it is like a Lakers game. You could always get a hold of a Lakers game one way or another. There were enough ways to pirate them if you wanted to. So there was a widespread widespread access to this game. And it felt like everybody goes say they was watching it, but it's not possible that they were all watching, right? But we all kind of got there. Maybe not all at the same time. Maybe not the whole way. But we all kind of got there. And I think there's something that adds to the legend of it, like the legend of the Wild 100 point game is that nobody saw, but the people who were there. But there's something to the legend of it that these different games and things would happen at points. Like you remember in social media was a bit more around for this. Like when Johnny Flynn played them six over times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You gradually found out that it was happening as one of those Wimbledon's where there was a stoppage in the middle of it. But they get the match went on all day long. And everybody gradually found out it happened. This kind of had that quality. And so now once it gets to the end, we're all there. And everybody's there for the same reason we hear to watch Kobe get buckets. I'll tell you the I'll tell you it's funny. The memory just came to me, but I was in college at the time. I got a hold of some piston tickets. That night, not quite, not quite knows, believe, but just got a hold of some tickets, right? They were playing the rockets and tracing the gravy. And I brought my cousin like, oh, let's go to the pissing game. He's like, all right. And he was a big Kobe fan. And he was like, yo, we as long as we get back in time for me to get on his league pass to watch Kobe. I'm like, all right, cool. That's a late game. Max scores 41 that night. I'm like, oh, man, we got to see a great game. T Max scores 41. Nobody in the league is going to get more than 41 that night. That's what I was thinking. You know what I mean? Kobe said double that. You know, and I remember my cousin watching the game and the I didn't find out until the next day. I went home at the time. I worked at a bank as one of my college jobs. So I had to be up at like eight in the morning. And I just like took it to the crib, went to sleep. And I was like, okay, I got school. I got I got working the morning. The next day, I'm just calling my cousin on the way and he and I'm talking about what we saw with the Mac and he was like, hey, doc, they ain't what happened last night. What we talking about? He was like, oh, you don't know. He was like, cobs scored 81. I felt like you remember, uh, do the right thing. And he's like, man, I'm not from, uh, I'm not from Boston. I'm from Brooklyn. Oh, man, that's what I, that's what I started like. That's what I was like, come on, man, you lying. And the word of mouth, I think, was almost even more wild at the time because you had to do a double take. If you didn't see the game, if you didn't watch sports center that night and someone told you the next day, because there was no Twitter, because there was no way to immediately verify that. Yeah, you just missed out. You snore. You snore. Not only did you miss out, you didn't believe it. You thought somebody was lying to you. Right. That's what 81 is. All right. Coming up next, we got more on this and, you know, how this kind of sets up this next stage in the career, Kobe Bryant. It's the last call for football on fan duel. One final Sunday, one last kickoff. The final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. This is Super Bowl 60 and fan dual is making sure you're in on it. If you're a new customer, bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets if you win. 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All right, back with Vity Goodwill talking about the night that Kobe scored that 81 and it's still crazy 81 like that number and I think the 81 will hold in a different way in large part because this is before the proliferation of this three point shot in the ways that we've seen it right like look at don't just this has had a 70 point game don of a Mitchell is at a 70 point game. Devon bookers at a 70 point game and lost we can run through like there are now guys that have put up some of these numbers and I mean good for them, but it ain't this it doesn't feel the same and what Kobe was that people of I would say you and I are like on generational cuss, but I'd put us together for purposes of this discussion and I think our basketball sensibilities put us in the same place. The score versus the shooter is a big thing here right now you have guys like Steph Curry who are as an ungodly combination of the two, but what Kobe Bryant was Carmelo Anthony is somebody who fits in this archetype we can go to guys like Adrian Danley squarely in the archetype of a scorer. I know how to get bucket the way the game has changed because the NBA decided about 15 20 years ago that it wanted to be more of a ball movement league more of a team basketball league which was truly necessary given the way that the game had kind of bogged down you know before they made the rule changes, but what you had were guys that give me the ball and I know how to give buckets it was a footwork game a slight of hand game your pump fakes your ability to conserve your dribble all of these things there's an art to scoring that isn't always the most efficient when we talk about basketball and team success, but has its own very particular beauty when watching it purely as an aesthetic and a guy getting 81 points in the form that Kobe Bryant got those 81 points it's hard it's going to be hard for anybody to put up buckets in a way that feels like that ever again. He took 33 tools in this game. He only took he was seven to 13 from three, but he only took 13 threes and if someone gets on a heater I don't know how many threes Donovan Mitchell took or look at Donches took, but if someone gets on a heater like that the numbers were versed. You're taking as many threes as possible to maximize the numbers as opposed to maximizing the opportunities like that's why I think about it's so very difficult for players who did or for people viewers who did not see him to understand why Allen Iverson was indeed a thing because they're like man look at the shooting numbers he didn't shoot that well, but there's a relentlessness to the way that players had to play back then like appetite was the biggest thing in my opinion the number one thing that had to be a quality about scoring had to me to be appetite had to be want to because you look at a guy like Jerry Stackhouse and Stack was a shooting guard but he wasn't a shooter by any stretch, but he could get to the bucket he could get his shot he could get to the line like he Mack he used and maximize all the ways that there is to score and he wasn't necessarily limited to us as I'm not a shooter that means I can't be on the floor I can't be effective Kobe was a guy that was when I'm hot I'm on a heater get out the way but any other time there's not a spot on the floor that I can't create a shot from and there's not a spot on the floor that even if you double-team me that I can't get up a reasonably effective shot that maybe might excuse me maybe just maybe might go in and that's the stage of basketball in 2006 that we were aging out of not maybe not fast it was a slow it was a slow burn but we were starting to age out of that because I think the rules came into play before the 0405 season but it just took a long time for for basketball to catch up I want to say is but I think it was before the old 304 season the the thing I know is this it was when Steve Nash was still in Dallas okay that was old you look you you can go look at Steve Nash's stats and you could look and find exactly the year that everything changed with the rules it was immediate in Steve Nash's numbers but the other thing was and I think that this gets lost is that getting buckets was a lot more hazardous back then right this is not the 80s reduced could literally close line you and get calling for a common foul it wasn't that but a big part of why you had to have a mid-range game back in the day that isn't discussed by the dorks is that these cats have taken your head off if you go in too far right this is another element of it that that's part of why you had to have a three level game it wasn't possible back in the day to have a situation where the heat map is showing all these threes and all these layups because somebody was coming to get you down there right some dude who wasn't even actually very good at basketball he was just there to stop you from getting buckets Kurt Thomas like and I'm saying I'm not saying Kurt Thomas isn't good at basketball because Lord knows I want to run it to him getting to no problems like having to spend a lot of time asking square garden you never know who's going to be on the jumbo trying that day right but that is true I say that to say there are guys like that who are on the roster for the sole purpose of somebody come down laying you guys six files you better use them and you better use them properly as in no soft ones no and ones make him feel it make him go to the line but make him think twice about going there and then the coaching back then was not such to take corner threes that was the one spot that they didn't tell you to take threes they said don't take a three in the corner because that puts you at a disadvantageous position to get back on defense so even though that's the shortest three and everything else and Kobe could have been a monster at corner threes if you would have told him amen this is easy the fact was you had to play offense thinking about defense at the same time so it wasn't just go to the basket it's going to be a freeway there and everything else you had to be strategic about where you took your shots from not just hazardous to your health but also these defensive mind that as coaches didn't want to get a fast break on the other end so sometimes a bad shot was just the first step in playing good defense and I think all of this also this game is a part I think the 62 and 61 minutes was another part of it but this is the beginning of Kobe moving back into the good graces of the basketball public right the general public I think was a bit of a bigger fight but the basketball public hey man I think it's hard to explain to people that we were on sides with that shack and Kobe thing like there were not a lot of people on that you got to see it from both ways it was there around the lakers and around the league it's either you were with shack or you were with Kobe and to be honest man it was really hard to be with Kobe at least for the early portions of it because shack was so much better than everybody else was then gradually Kobe got there but a lot of us was slow to recognize it because we still had the best of shack in our minds you know when we came up with our idea of what it was that they looked like but in the end shack left the lakers and then the lakers missed the playoffs and then Kobe's out here with these guys but they're not really good and the performance is not really there it also seemed as if Kobe had a run to fill Jackson off right that was the way that we were looking at this and so you know Kobe was not being treated like a three-time champion typically is being treated like I think overall the opinion of him was I don't want to say if it was a net negative because they mean there are obviously a lot of people they're like yo this just Kobe Bryant but between that and what happened in Colorado he was he was that his Q rating was down down down and he reminded us that we were in it for the basketball and he put up 81 points in a game that was the thing to me that stands out I feel like remember Kobe hit that sneaker free agency here yeah he wore everybody stuff like stuff that's that for current doing now and then after that he got into the Colorado thing so he was he was flammable like you couldn't touch him you couldn't give him an endorsement deal that O506 season was the first time that Kobe eight years in or whatever it is head his own shoe from Nike like that was the Kobe one shoe and that was kind of like you said a step in the direction of welcoming Kobe back into the consciousness and Kobe the thing with Kobe and Shaq was that Shaq knew how to play the media game Shaq was a likable big dude who could disarm you and who could get you on his side and everything else and Kobe was gruff and didn't let people in and liked it that way so it was easy to say you know biggie two pocket whatever was right like it was legit either you were a Shaq guy or you were a Kobe guy and the guy like my cousin I was telling you about he was a big time Kobe guy he didn't rock with Shaq he thought Shaq should have been like Tyson Chandler grabbed the rebot and kicking off the Kobe he thought that back in the one hey man I get it off the glass I'm telling you like this is what things were like even then and then Colorado happens and then Shaq gets traded happens and then everything else hold on hold on you can't leave out Kobe talking about Shaq to the police that is the one just like Carmelo Anthony had a hard time shaking off when he pushed Marty Collins or Randy on the way like sometimes it sometimes just the things the dudes just find to be up heart and that was the one that's the um even if you were a Kobe guy that's the one thing that people kind of have a hard time reconciling you know what I mean that's what you had to get past with these dudes you know what I'm saying like like like like like I mean bad bars really love Kobe as much as he's saying so to be bad bar and thought that was okay hey I'm not saying they lie when they talk about how much they like Kobe I'm just wondering what they thought when they heard about that I mean how you think that plays with Steven Jackson like you said Matt bars I think that plays with Steven we're captain Jack I think Jay and Don they now I'm not speaking out of turn Jay came to Vegas for the NBA Cup and somehow this story came up and he said he went on around the horn one day and said what happens instead in Vegas stays in Vegas unless you hang with Kobe Bryant and and after math of that and then he was like and after that he was like man that was over the line you know what I'm like he and you know what I mean like there was place where we were all collectively teeing off on can you imagine the podcast back then when people got a hold a cold talking to the cops this is in the stop snitching Warner brother era I have I have talked about this Nas has a song on I think it's the street's disciple album called these are our heroes that originally had a much different title and he lamb bass Kobe for snitching all shak yes he did yes he did like yo and it was like he took it to a whole other place it was bad times man but then he went and put up 81 he went and put up 81 it was like a slow burn sort of thing it was Kobe's back on the Lakers right he still he never left like I think that's a very important thing to note he never left the Laker brand so we were always going to see him he was always going to have the opportunity to impress us and earn his way back met whether that was a conscious decision on his part or not like who knows but that played a big part where as shak being in Miami that's a great for shak but LA my Miami in LA you know what I mean and then remember the week before 81 if I remember correctly was dr. King day Lakers heat in LA and that was the game where shacking Kobe actually made up that's also the game where shak gave Andrew by them that forearm shiver the record that was old I thought that was all Christmas no no that wasn't on Christmas oh I remember that happening because Andrew bottom kind of dunked on them right yeah Andrew by them dunked on them there's like peace on our you know the Andrew by them dunked on them no shak dunked on him first shak got a tip dunk and then by them got in the post and spun off of them and it looked like slow motion it was like whoa by them about the dunk on shak dunked on them looks look like a soft dunk not soft but it just it looked like a you know fingertip dunk and then he gave shak like a elbow like a bump yeah and it was uh January 16th in okay day yeah and and that's when shak grabbed him and gave him a shiver that was the day that Kobe and shak made up because somehow Bill Russell got involved the Mill Russell toe shak you can't treat Kobe like this you got to forgive blah blah blah and that's when stuff started started to turn and then six days later 81 happens yeah all that stuff happens in the span of a week but then one and a half years later it a moment that was just before this social media thing got cracking which is good for the legacy of Kobe but bad for us that's when Kobe has to be traded ship is ass I know yeah yeah he scored his 81 but he got tired because they blew a three one lead in the playoffs I was gonna say you're forgetting that you are for yeah they blew it in those six in those six they had the three one lead where yeah oh see yeah oh six lead I played against the suns yes played against the playoffs three one lead blew it and in the fourth quarter of game seven Kobe tapped didn't take a shot in the second half so maybe he took one no he might have taken one it might have been a long three it might have been one of them long logo threes and it was clear and Kobe took a lot of help for that I want to say Charles Barkley called him out because that was a TNT game and that was pending trouble and I think Cobb hit like 25 or 30 at the half or some ungodly number and the Lakers were down 20 it was clear they were going home it was clear that when when Kobe scored 50 in game six of that series which I think was the best game game Kobe's ever actually played and they win the overtime and Tim Thomas gosh it's all coming back to me now Tim Thomas scores off an offensive rebound that sends the game into overtime the Lakers would have closed them out and probably bow had gone to the Western conference finals if Tim Thomas doesn't hit that shot the Lakers played the Clippers in round two the Clippers of Elton brand and Sam Kaseo and those dudes and this story looks totally different if not for that Tim Thomas shot and then subsequently Kobe tapped down the game seven yeah like that's how oh six ends oh seven they losing the first rounds of the sons again right and that summer Kobe has for a trade in this video and you can find it somebody put a camera in his face at the mall I want to say a new port beach that sounds about right right like that's where Kobe stay over that way and Kobe is wearing this red shirt and these crazy sunglasses and he says I'd rather play in Pluto than to play with a Lakers and what he really wanted was the Lakers would not trade Andrew Byelom in order to get Jason Kidd to which Kobe said to get Jason Kidd I quote ship his ass out unquote and the sons I mean the Lakers treated Kobe much like the Rockets treated a chemo Lajewon in 1992 when he wanted all of these things and did nothing and they stormed out and were the best team in the West then made the trade to get Pogasaw went to the finals three straight years Kobe gives those next two rings and it's all the super full circle at that point but so even with the 81 81 was a like a rocket ship inflection point but it began a thawing of sorts that there were still ups and downs right still issues that came up but it's hard to remember where we were Kobe's the only star I can think of LeBron maybe but the only star I can think of where there were real ups and downs along the way with a lot of you know a lot of them and think about like this just for more context and oh six Shaq gets his ring with the Wayne Wade so Shaq gets ring number four the next year LeBron James takes that motley crew of Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA finals while Kobe's getting knocked out in the first round like this is all happening and you can't separate these things because Kobe's looking around and he's and he's hearing stuff right and also the Boston Celtics just loaded up with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to join Paul Pierce like there was you know the famous story about you know maybe Kevin Garnett wanted to join the Lakers and Ditton and was on Kobe was on vacation whatever it was and Kobe wanted to get traded to the Bulls remember that he wanted like this is all so like these things turn on a trifle right if any one of these things changes the plates of all of this totally changes because even then the Lakers getting off to that great start Kobe never actually rescinded the trade demand if you remember that I remember he was asked about it and he said not still feel the same way and maybe that was just his way of continuing to put pressure on the Lakers to go and do something and then Jerry West gave them the ultimate stimulus package the ultimate stimulus package he did like what's wild to think is that the Grizzlies actually in the super long run came out okay in that trade and it was because of the throw in in that trade Marcus all throw in was Marcus all the centerpiece I feel like were the combination of Kwabi Brown and Javarice Crittenden who became more famous for quasi basketball reasons I mean good thing Javarice Clinton didn't discover that side of himself while he was living at Memphis I think it's a good thing he discovered that side of himself while he was out there playing with Kobe they don't tell him what Kobe was out here saying you know what an 80 body else um but yeah like this was it was a time like there's no chance that the Kobe bright documentary that I would want to watch could ever get made at this point but 81 is 81 is a time 81 is a scene 81 is a moment like 81 is a tent pole that you build something around I mean it was like you said it was the start of I want to like some people who made view 24 like him changing the number as like the start of the different version of Kobe Bryant that we knew but I tend to agree with you is that this 81 thing was a way for us to be able to talk about Kobe Bryant again without the precursor of well you know there was also the thing that happened in color right it's not quite like he was this is not I'm trying to figure out a way to say this delicately but you know how we talk about that one dude who was a football player and we can't say anything without mentioning the first thing first right to some degree with Kobe it was just like that we couldn't say excellent basketball player whatever it was we had to acknowledge the thing that was the thing and after 81 it felt like it was okay for us to not have to mention that thing on the first sentence it was still mentioned but it wasn't the very first thing and maybe now it was able we were able to discuss Kobe as basketball player as opposed to pariah or what you felt about him personally or if you thought he was a rapist all these other things right yeah well look man like I said before right or wrong I'm not saying this in any judgment right or wrong we're in it for the basketball and he did a basketball thing so impressive that the basketball thing took took priority right because the basketball things he was doing up until that point they wouldn't they wouldn't enough you understand what I'm saying like you out here playing with losers and it doesn't look good on you as you do this right your your arch nemesis is over there winning right making it happen he did a basketball thing and that you know and it'll get take some time before that all goes and that all built right like I said this was an up and down sort of scenario with him but this right here outside of winning the championships this is the highest that he has had and it's in the running not necessarily yet but if someone said they thought this is the best individual performance they had ever seen I get why you would say I'm 100% with you and here's the other thing I'm asking this bow where do you sit on these corners of Twitter that says will didn't exist that will the will hunter gang yeah dummies fucking idiots right why do we why do we make this up that's all I'm asking like why did we why do we make this up because we traveled back time we traveled back in time to ensure that Kobe would not be number one we put this artificial thing in place so that Kobe Bryant could never have the number one scoring game of all time this is what these idiots think and I think you are like me when when you get into this weird place of discussing Kobe Bryant or you discussing him on he's on opposite side of the brown James he's on opposite side of Michael Jordan he's on opposite side is it's it's it's it's not Kobe it's the people that get on your last nerves it's not really it's Kobe it's it's y'all yeah it's really dumb it's it's co-paste fantastic yeah we got to get back we got to get back to 81 because now you got me thinking about suckers it's my bad we waited till the end to call those suckers because now they may be able to listen to the whole rest of the episode then a good will check them out covering the NBA for ESPN my brother I appreciate you I'm a man else in spawn dog appreciate you all right man ladies and gentlemen thanks so much for joining us here on the right time be sure to join us every Tuesday for time machine Tuesdays Ryan Brumbley Helen everything behind the scenes thank you sir remember by the way you do this four times a week in general but remember follow the right time subscribe like rate us review us give us five stars you only give us four stars I'm inclined to believe you are a hater we'll touch you guys in a couple of days take it easy