Victoria's Secret Struggles: Uplifting an Intimate Empire

All right, welcome back. This topic was brought to us. We love your suggestions. And if there's something people want us to fix, I mean, we're on it. It's what we do. Today, we are going to spill all of Victoria's secrets. There's a lot happening here. We're going to put it all on the table, hash it out, and then give the company back better that we found it. So let's start with the fashion show, which is a big deal for the company. If you've been anywhere on social, you might know that the Victoria's secret fashion show happened recently. And there was a lot going on there. You had a pregnant lady walking the runway, nepot babies, an Olympic gymnast, a K-pop takeover. There was Missy Elliott, a tempsative body positivity. There was something for everyone or no one. I don't know. With callbacks to the past in efforts to modernize the company and shake off past stigmas, it's really hard to tell what Victoria's secret even is right now, as a brand and as a cultural influence. The fashion shows one component, but that's just scratched from the surface of this story. There's a lot more to this. So fortunately, Melissa is going to help us navigate the situation, and it will fix it. What do you have for us, Melissa? Well, let's talk about a fantasy that was worth billions until it suddenly wasn't. So for decades, Victoria's secret wasn't just a lingerie retailer. It was a cultural force. The fashion show was at Super Bowl and the Angels were at superstar athletes creating an empire that at its peak dominated the marketplace. But the empire was built on a single-nero idea of beauty, and when the world changed and demanded authenticity and inclusivity, Victoria's secret famously doubled down, and they didn't really change with the times. The backlash was brutal. The fantasy was shattered. So to understand this sheer scale of the problem that we're facing today and that Victoria's secret is facing, you have to look at the money. While Victoria's secret was clean to its past, a revolution was happening in this very category it invented. Here's the financial reality check. Victoria's secret today is still a giant with about six billion dollars in annual revenue, but it's a giant on shaky ground. It's net income has shrunk. A profit that they achieve is largely due to closing stores and cutting costs, not from exciting growth, and you see that in a lot of businesses, not just in this business. The competition, now you're looking at disruptors. Kim Kardashian's Schemes, a brand evolved on solving the real world problems of shape and inclusivity that Victoria's secret somewhat ignored, is now valued at a staggering four billion dollars. Sarah Blakely's Spanx, another problem solving powerhouse, was recently acquired for 1.2 billion. So let's be clear, investors are betting five billion dollars at the future belongs to brands like Schemes and Spanx and not to the old Victoria's secret playbook. Sorry, Kadira. This is the battlefield. Victoria's secret has since canceled a lot of their marketing, a lot of what they have been doing. They purge their leadership. They've tried to do all of these different types of things, including launching a new inclusive era with their current comeback show, which included angel ambassadors. And like Aaron mentioned, they had an array of personalities and body types that were represented it. So the multi billion dollar question we're tackling today is, can this legacy brand built on what they originally had, truly pivot to become a brand for everybody? Or is it too late and has the market and the culture already moved on, taking that five billion dollars into the future? The runway show was the easy part. So now we have to see if the business can actually walk the talk. And I would say, you know, we really as a group have a big problem to solve. So let's get fixing. I'm also I'm glad you said the you said, legacy brand, which is true. The company started in 1977. It's been bought in Seoul. It's gone public. We're on the on the still on the verge of what we could call a rebrand. It started in we'll say 2023. We're two years in. So for a legacy company that's been around as long as it has to go into a new phase like the one we're in now, it's still we get to call it early days. These are I'd say these are like the mess years where they're figuring out what relevance is and how they play culturally. And we're I think we're jumping in like in the middle, you know, we move the needle to the middle of the record. We're somewhere in in the month, you know. So I think we're seeing some things play out in in real time here. Yeah. And I you know, I would say like it's really interesting this whole conversation around Victoria's secret and to see where they are right now because the brand, you know, I think has been, you know, emblematic of this bigger cultural conversation, right, around beauty and inclusion and relevance and what all that means, right? Like for decades, as you both pointed out, like Victoria's secret really defined this very narrow idea, but of an idea of femininity, right? Tall, skinny, flawless, stereotypically beautiful, that a lot of people, you know, admired but also criticized, right? For being unrealistic, right? As as we're discussing today. And so I think that definition of femininity and beauty that they have owned or at least crafted, it worked, it worked for a really long time. We have to acknowledge that. But I think, you know, and especially like if you think back to like the 90s and the 2000s, they owned it. But as we know, and as we've discussed many shows before, culture moves fast and consumer expectations change quickly and they will change dramatically on you. And you know, we've talked about use the word evolution in so many shows before. I don't know a company that if you don't evolve, if you don't respond to your consumers, your customers, your employees, just your stakeholders in general. One, another company will eat your lunch and two, it is a matter of time before you are going to go out of business, right? And so today, you know, women want to see themselves reflected authentically. I think that's what it's about. And it's not just in the models, right? It is not just in the models. It is in this entire creative process. It is the CEO. It is an executive leadership. It is, you know, the photographers. It is in the vendors. That's really what, you know, when we talk about, you know, transformation and authenticity and understanding and representing different perspectives, you know, Melissa, you touched on this, but the runway, that's the easy part, right? We're talking about something deeper and bigger that has to be long term and sustainable before, especially folks today with so many companies that have been pegged as being performative and, you know, woke washing or whatever the term is, that's going to be the different. Here's the other thing, right? And we'll keep the show rated G so that everybody can listen to it, but like, I don't think it's necessarily about getting rid of the fantasy. When you walk into a Victoria secret store, yeah, there's the kind of everyday underwear and bras and panties, but there is a part of the store that is about fantasy, the lingerie. You're not just walking around and that stuff every day all day. So it's not about getting rid of the fantasy. I think what the company has to focus on is how are they going to be inclusive about who makes up that fantasy? Does it every woman, regardless of shape, size, ability, background, whatever that might look like, does she see herself in the fantasy or does it appear that she's trying to live into someone else's fantasy? Don't get rid of the fantasy. Just include me in it. Well, oh, go ahead, Melissa. I was just going to say that I think that you bring up a lot of really good points. I think that the moment of truth is really going to be in the stores on the rack and what the actual customer is able to get their hands on. Because if you're selling something that says we're inclusive to all body types, to all fantasies, to all of these things, and yet when you go into the Victoria Secret store or the pink store, you only can find this size. That's a problem, right? So like I said, when I said the runway was really easy, what I meant was the runway was curated. The runway, those, those, those, the fitting, they were fitted, all those models, whether they were angel Reese as a six-foot tall athlete or Ashley Graham as a plus size model. They were all fitted to look amazing on the runway. They didn't go into a store and say, hey, give me that off the rack. So you're, you know, you're sitting there, you know, hoping that your brand is going to become this authentic, inclusive brand and, you know, and relay it to Cadeira to the fantasy of all. But that's going to be a very different operational issue that you're going to have and a product issue that you're going to have. And so, you know, when we compare them, is it, I mean, maybe it's not fair to compare them to Skims or to Spinks, who has a very niche model, right? They're going for a specific thing. And, you know, Victoria Secret has long term, you know, like in their catalog, they used up clothes and swimsuits and all these kinds of things. So what kind of inventory and product length can you, you know, really actually deliver on? So have they expanded their size ranges? Have they made all those available in stores or just online? So when a plus size person walks into the mall, they're not able to actually get it. But maybe that's okay if they've made a promise that we are going to make sure we have a fit concierge and we're going to get you the best fit possible. And we are going to curate that fit to you, right? And then we're going to send it to your house. So, you know, I mean, maybe that's what they need to do. I mean, you know, I always lap, I always think about the early days and it's still the same I think of Victoria Secret, like my kids and my husband, nobody would want to go there because it smelled because it was so powerful, the perfume and stuff. And I remember getting like a night gout or something from my family. I'm sure it was my husband's that like for my family. And I remember my son saying, we ran in and had our nose plugged because we couldn't handle the smell. But like again, I, you know, that's beside the point. But I do think it's going to be in delivering this idea that they're trying to, again, re-re-transform themselves into. Going online without ExpressVPN is like driving without a seatbelt. You might be careful, but if something risky happens, wouldn't you want to feel more secure? Well, every time you connect to public Wi-Fi, it's like you're not wearing a seatbelt because your data is vulnerable and valuable, like your logins and credit cards people want them. And learning how to steal your data is easy. But guess what? So's protecting it. ExpressVPN creates a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet. Whether you're on a phone, a laptop or tablet, you can rest easy wherever you go. And when I say easy, I mean easy. You open the app, click a button, and that's it. 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Like you said, we keep saying that. And I think, yep, it's true. There's double down on that. That's the easy part. That's the external. It's, you know, easier. You can put some models on the runway. You can have diversity there. But like we also have to look at what is happening internally, right? And so just from like a people and culture standpoint, you know, they have to make sure as every company I preach this all the time, like you have to have that representation at every level, right? Just as as Melissa, you were saying. And so that's, you know, diversity across leadership. It's in design. It's in merchandising. It's in marketing. It's created a direction, right? When people making the decisions reflect your audience, you know, that authenticity, kind of naturally follows, right? So I think they also have to, you know, we see companies do this. It's not new, but like publishing those transparent diversity metrics. Like are you actually sticking to them? It's okay to stumble. It's okay. We expect that it's going to happen. The consumers smart and savvy, but like don't try to hide what's happening, right? Who's in leadership? Who's being promoted? Who's being hired? Are you tracking them? Are they getting the stretch assignments? Are they being visible? Like that's where people start to say, okay, wait a minute. Let's pay attention to this company because they actually are committed to this. Along those lines, I think it's also about voice and influence. You know, who is actually able to speak up and share creative ideas? And, you know, do you have employees from different backgrounds? They're in power to kind of change some of those old norms. We don't want to discount the legacy because it's what built the company. But are you bringing in people that can say, hey, can I challenge that idea that we've kind of been circling the drain for the last 10, 20 years and think about something different? And that requires psychological safety. We hear that term a lot in companies, but it is, it is so true because if people can't speak up internally without fear of pushback or tokenization, well, then there you go, right? I think also, it's about values, right? Are your values embedded in your systems? And does everybody in the company from the CEO to, you know, the executive assistants to the janitor and the cleaning crew to your creative team follow them, right? Again, that's when we talk about being inclusive stocks, being performative and it becomes operational. And then I think lastly, it is about just being transparent and accountable. Again, you know, as I was saying earlier, like your consumer, you know, the public, even your employees, just any stakeholder is going to expect that they're going to be stumbles, but it's how you're talking about like, hey, we got this wrong. We're going to be honest about it. We tried it. We, you know, intended to do something well meaning, but the impact we understand was not what it should have been. And so here's what we are going to do to fix it. And then you point to all the other things that I just talked about. And again, that's when you start to build trust with with the public. So I think those are the types of things that can make a difference. So I love it. So it's not just you, does your product fit me? Do you have something that's going to work for me? It's, do I, do I find myself represented in this company? Do I align it? All levels or many levels? So beyond just, you know, do I see myself represented in the very front end, you know, the very top layer of this company? It's throughout. Do I feel like I walk into a story do I belong there? If I see the messaging or the corporate communication, does that, is that reflective of what I stand for? That's a big reinvention for it, you know, for a company of this magnitude. And I think that Kadira, God, I love what you just said. I think it's one of the things that this company in particular, the authenticity and not being performative, which you said, is so key because they've keep like switching like like they're marketing strategies. So it doesn't feel authentic, right? Like putting up, you know, like putting these athletes out there feels like, okay, these are hot athletes right now that we all love, right? So, okay, great, thank you, because I know who they are. I know these K-pop stars. I know, you know, whatever, but like, it doesn't really feel like they've embraced or they've even kind of come out with like, what do they stand for? We talk about these missions, they, you know, and if it's a fantasy, then let's have it be a fantasy, but like, what was the fantasy that those, those ambassadors were showcasing, right? You know, so how does that, how does that, you know, kind of hit me in the heart and make me want to go out there and do that, right? You know, so in terms of like, go out there and shop. So I really love what you said because I do feel like this specifically when we say being authentic, we say that a lot, but this is truly one of those cases where they need to really decide how they want to address this. And, you know, I loved how you also, you know, brought up that, you know, there's nothing wrong with the fantasy. There's nothing wrong with the lingerie and being sexy and all of that thing and what what they're, you know, basically, basically have been because that's not what spanks and, you know, and, and, and, and dims about, they're more about building confidence that yeah, good in who you are. So like, this is a new culture and what does Victoria's secret want to be? So how do they build the fantasy and embed confidence, right? So maybe that's, that's what they need to redefine their purposes. Yeah, yeah, they're not just selling a fantasy anymore. They're selling the foundation for real life confidence, right? That and confidence is the fantasy, right? That allows them to expand into these other high growth areas, right? Like, shapewear, etc., etc. But also like, continuing to create beautiful lingerie and loungewear, but that's also functional for people of all shapes and sizes, right? And, and all different types of fantasies, right? So I really love how you said that. I think the bigger part for us is how do they fix that and how do they actually, you know, move into kind of a new brand umbrella and Aaron, I don't know like, yeah, I feel like they're brand. It's so strong, right? Like, when you say like a lot of people just say Victoria's secret when they mean underwear, they don't, yeah, what I'm sure. And I like, you could go, you go to any target, you go anywhere else to buy underwear and they do now the same thing that Victoria's secret was the first to do, right? Which is buy five pieces of underwear for X amount of price, right? They have the, like the nice little lingerie drawers that you can pull out for all the different sizes so you can find your, you know, your size and the colors you want and things like that. And so yeah, I feel like they built that like so that that you when you go into a department store that is not a Victoria's secret, you feel like you're in Victoria's secret because you're buying, you know, you're buying the underwear in this say that they're using the same type of, you know, displays, they're using the same type of pricing models. They're using the same product things, right? Like, oh, this is, you know, you know, shapewear or whatever, whatever they're using, you know, calling it hipster huggers or whatever. And it just seems like they've built that but they've got to be able to think about the future because I feel like they're, you know, all of these other niche brands are poking holes in what they're able to provide. And I wonder, I mean, I don't know if pink was their attempt at more, like young, you know, it was less lingerie more like sports bras and things like that. I don't know, but I feel like, you know, they have such a foundation to start with. Yeah. I'm gonna let us, I think you totally hit it on the head of all what the crossroads is and what we're the painful things that we're seeing play out is they, well, they want it both ways. So, you know, we were talking about expanding the product line. And if you're going to run a six billion dollar company, they didn't let alone, you know, sustain let alone grow, you got to move a lot of units, right? So if they're going, and if they're making this brand promise and again, we're like, we're in 2023, we're not that far into that promise. If they are serious about it, of we're going to be representative of you, we're going to have more variety, we're going to have more sizes in our inventory. So if they keep going, the expanded product line to fit, you know, everybody and everybody type, then you're essentially at that underwear warehouse. And I don't know, it's a dead rock or something, but, but it's the ones to shop there. They want the, they want the curated kind of experience. And like you know, like you said, like they've created a shorthand for how you do this, that other retailers can copy because it exists now and consumers know how to navigate the situation. So you can go that everything for everybody and, and those, you know, may as well shop at a home depot for underwear, or you can go the unattainable way in the high fashion and, and, and, and unrealized standards of beauty that no one can, no one can hit, right? What's there still doing like we're seeing both things play out in the market at the same time, and no wonder people are confused and saying, what is this company even? That's where we're at right now. Well, I think that there's an opportunity, Kadira, you really made me, made me kind of switch my, my ideas about this. But like, what if we really have, you know, really lean into the fantasy park? Okay, right? Like what their foundational, you know, lingerie, like sex, the sexiest lingerie ever. And they partner with like, very modern types of situations like love Island, the batch there. Okay, hear me out, you know, the batch where they have a, I don't even watch the bachelor anymore, but I know they have like the overnight suite or some like thing when he gets to down to three people. You know, what if it was the Victoria Secret Suite, right? And they, they provide amazing lingerie for, you know, the contestants or on love Island or what, you know, all these shows that are really big, what love is blind, like all the things right now, right? You know, and what if, you know, you know, really they continue to focus on that. And then in their stores, they have like this fantasy suite area, which is all these amazing, beautiful curated, you know, looks from their different partnerships of lingerie, right? And then they have their concierge service, right? Which is there, they have a fit guarantee right now already, like you can go and get measured, but like they continue to do that. And like, you know, double down on really who they were to begin with, I don't know, maybe that's what they need me. You know, when you see people with phones with crack screens and you think, whoops, they weren't careful. Well, that's something you can see on the outside, but what you can't see is how careful they're being with their online data, because whenever someone goes online without express VPN, it could mean trouble like passwords and logins all out in the open. If a screen crack, she can fix it. But once your personal data is out there, it's out there. You can protect your own data with express VPN and feel great about it. Express VPN creates a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet. You can use it on your phone, tablet and laptop at its lowest price ever with plans starting at around 12 cents a day. It matters to me that your data is protected. I love fixing problems. And this one's easy to solve. 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Because I am, I'm guessing here, but like I imagine there's probably a little bit of clash or mismatch at times with employees and what is going on with the brand and how it's evolving or not. And so, you know, is there an opportunity for them to, you know, even do some sort of campaign with employees and just understanding like their why for being involved with this campaign? And they might even be about them getting, you know, naked again, I'm kind of even like, going back to our, the conversation we had about Jaguar, right? And that being a legacy brand and how you bring those employee stories or long time customer stories into the mix. That is an opportunity to tell real, you know, stories, real units, right? That are had long been shopping at Victoria's Secret. How do you bring them in? I mean, think about like we have some of those, you know, beautiful mature models in their 70s, right? How cool of a campaign would it be if you're a long-term customer to be? Like that to me is saying it's fantasy. I'm still sexy, but I'm a real woman. So yeah. Yeah, I think that you've had a really great opportunity for them. So like to really make it, I'm a, I'm a documentary aficionado. I love to watch them all the time. But creating something that almost has that feel because there are a lot of people out there who would watch this. And so like behind the wings, right? You know, the wings and have it be like a documentary style thing. And it talks it and you take five of the five of the angel ambassadors. So you take a mech and Rapinoe, you take an Ashley Graham who just had kids, you know, she's got three kids or four kids or something like that, you know, and a day in her life. And when she got the phone call and they asked her to be a model again on the on the runway, what did she think and like how does she wear, you know, what does she wear and what does she put together, right? I love what you say. And then like a total behind the scenes at corporate. Yeah, right. And then fighting in the boardroom and then saying like, oh no, like how are we going to fit this person in the like kind of hearing, like what actually goes into creating the sausage, you know, like a lot of times we don't want to know. We just want the end result. Yeah. I love what you're saying because it makes it the fantasy real for for real people. That's right. Or just the ambassadors. And so that's right. I love that kind of behind the scenes, a curated story, driving, you know, and talking about the challenges, right? Like, you know, I'm sure I've been in at the table and I'm the only person that looks like this. Right. And it's and I, you know, and you have those moments in time where you're like, gosh, we're selling, you know, underwear and lingerie and foundations. And there are 10 men and two women here and the two women are in HR and marketing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not on the product side. They're not on the operation side. They're not on the finance side. And you're telling me how we should be like building this. So yeah, love what you have to share because I do think again, that gets to that authenticity. And I feel like if people could see the struggle, they actually, they root, you root for an underdog and it's nostalgia, right? Like, you know, I was so excited when I got to got enough money, say from babysitting to be able to go to Victoria's Secret because that was like, wow, like, that's a big deal, right? You know, and so like, I think you could get people to buy into that more. Yeah. And willing to be like, I want to participate in this because I don't want this legacy brand to go away. I don't want it to all become underwear warehouse, right? Yeah. Right. Well, and I like, I mean, I'm in if they turn the camera on themselves, you know, and we don't know the exact composite of those rooms. I'm guessing they're not quite as homogeneous as they used to be in the 80s or early 90s or, you know, but but if they if they make their their people, the center of the conversation and they are, let's just let's say they're all one flavor like they people are going to point that out pretty quick. So they're going to have to, you know, think about who's representative again, not just the final mile on the runway, but at all stages of the company and the decisions, especially if they make their people not just angel ambassadors, but make everyone an ambassador. I like what you're going. Where are you going with that? Yeah. Here's here's what it takes to create the fantasy. I think something there. Yeah. And and it's and it is a way of having a bulk ways. Look, sometimes we're going to put on wings and prints around. That's part of what we are. And the rest of the time we're people. We're regular people. And here's how we live. And here's how we argue. And here's yeah, could you are like you said, like, here's here's the ingredients that go into the maintaining or upholding those moments of fantasy. Right. That's right. And I think it's a great reminder to, you know, connecting the dots of the boardroom and not even this, certainly just the boardroom, but like the product team, you know, everyone to the ultimate customer. And sometimes we forget. And we forget where we add value, right? Like your voice adds value, right? What you do helps. And ensuring that it's shown and that it's understood is so important. And so I love, because I love this idea of like what's behind the scenes. And I think that, you know, in an age of mass information, right? We are in an age where you can Google chat, whatever, every every Wikipedia we can do all the things. It's really sometimes it's sometimes that we need to put that story out ourselves and not have that story be put upon us. Right. So like I feel like this is a great opportunity for them to drive the narrative and try to explain like even explain like all the different changes and how they have they been trying to course correct and what's worked and what's not worked. Because in their mind, they may be like we're being super successful because people are talking about us again, which is again true, right? You know, that's true. We're talking about them. But you know, I love this idea of like there's so much more behind the scenes that's going on. Yeah. That no one really knows. Yeah. Every company wants branded content too. Then they want it to be a hit. You have the Lego show. You have an Airbnb show. You know, I would be too surprised if there's not a behind the scenes of Victoria's Secret Show in the work somewhere. Or they've been pasted a hundred times. But I don't, you know, I like what work like what you're saying. Like do it with a level of transparency and humility and an own your mistakes and do it in public. Like I love when brands do that. That's yeah. Put down the protective veil and say, look, here's what we're all about. It's risky at a company of this size and it takes a little bit of ego's putting aside and to be that vulnerable. But it can work. It can work big time. Yeah. And I think that they probably I'm certain, I mean, they have Victoria's Secret Rewards and things like that. So I'm sure that they do some sort of customer forums and things like that. So even having like an understanding of what loyal, loyal customers, you know, that have been there for many, many years, say about why they still keep coming back, right? And is it a product, probably? Yes. Is it, you know, the fit guarantee? Is it what, what is it about it that makes them come back? And then also what are the things that they're concerned about, right? Like they're concerned that they don't see shape where like they want or whatever, whatever it might be, you know, it would be really, I think this is a really great way to be an authentic brand and showing kind of the struggles of the choices that they have to make because they're hard, right? Yeah. They're hard. This is a good one. I like it. Good job, Padira. I'll go to you. No, I just, you know, I think, you know, Melissa, to your point, we just, we live in, you know, with social media and chat GPT. I was, I was looking the other day and someone had created their own, and I'm blanking on the word, but like used AI to create their own persona. They, it wasn't a real person, gorgeous woman. And she was running a social media page behind, you know, I mean, we live in this day and age of like what's even real? And there's just a lot of questions about what's real and everything is curated and how am I at work on a Monday, but you're on a yacht? What do you do for a living? We're not at work and you know, everybody's showing their highlight reels and things like that. But I think on the flip side of that, we're all hungry. We keep using that word authenticity, authenticity, but we're hungry for authenticity. We're hungry to see the real. We're hungry to see the blunders that behind the scenes. We're hungry to connect with real, with people who look like us every day, going about their lives, just trying to take care of their families and be the best that they can be. And so I think this is an opportunity for Victoria's Secret again to kind of mesh of the fantasy and illusion that they created that again, we don't want to go away, but there is something so rich about them being able to kind of for, you know, even a moment, whether like you said, it's a documentary or some sort of vignette or a show or whatever, just pull the wool back for a little bit and let people see inside. I think that could go such a long way. Yep. Yeah. Totally. And especially like, like, Adarius, you're talking about the AI, generated people, you know, and before up till now, the unattainable beauty standards were these models and angels, but now they're people that aren't real. You know, you heard about this Tilly Norwood, the fake actress that's getting signed by all the agencies are fighting over to put her in movies and commercials and things, but that's, you know, that's the tip of the iceberg. Like, the unattainable beauty standards are going to be people that aren't real. So you can you can take a step away from that and say, look, we're, yes, there's a fantasy at the heart of it, but there's attainable beauty. Whether it's every day or whether it's these moments of glamour and high fashion, like, I think connecting it back to attainability is going to go a long way with this, you know, with moving forward. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. All right. So I think we're we're ready to fix this. So if we, if we go more toward the idea that yes, we can, you know, we we can have those those moments of, like I said, being putting ourselves in the spotlight, putting on the wings, being ultra glamorous, that's bad. Don't throw that out. That's hard. That's part of what we are been all about for a long time. And widen the net of who's accepted into what we'll call that the standards of beauty. If you, if you are making not just overtures, but real commitments to body positivity, like again, we're two years into that. Let's see where you go with that. Let's see where you go in terms of embracing your your your power users, right? Your long time loyal customers. What's here? Their stories. Why they why they stayed with what they came to you, why they stayed with you. And as always, you know, make sure you have decision-makers, diversity and representation and decision-makers at all levels, not just that that final mile. Oh, the reality shows partner with you can be on every, you know, for the brand integration, part, they could be on pretty much any reality show they want. And they'll try to think them. Shows are gladly take them. That's a good place to be because it, not another reality is reality. We all know that reality shows, but it connects it to the day to day and it connects it to a heightened reality and creates people that sometimes superstars, sometimes sealists, or dealers out of regular people who can come in and come up with some with a following and with some cache and they're pretty cheap. Like when they first land into in the spotlight, they could get a bunch of ambassadors like really fast, right? So they could monopolize a lot like just the reality show gamut. I think they do pretty well there. So if we throw all this into uh into the company and say, hey, how about it? Well, little slow come back to you. Kadeera, did we fix it? I think we totally fixed it. Like I hope that they rock with some of these ideas are all of them. I am like super excited the way that we've kind of spun this just in our conversation. Absolutely. I mean, look, again, we don't want to get rid of the fantasy. That really is the legacy of Victoria's secret. Melissa, I think you, you know, perfectly put that like that's again, what separates them from like a skims or a spanks. That's fine. This is their space to play. So play. Get in your sandbox and play. And you know, again, show us that the true creative diversity is behind the scenes. Like that's what makes the brand the brand and how you're going to step into the next 50 years of the business. So I think by putting, you know, into play, the fixes that you just walk through and again, not ditching who the legacy has been and can continue to be just show that you're evolving show that that fantasy is now reflective of all different types of customers. So yeah, absolutely. Okay, Melissa, what do you say? I love it. I think that this is a really great, great. I think it's a head start for them. I do think there is from an operational perspective, a need to be very hyper focused on the product fit and the range. They also have, you know, retail stores and almost every single mall. So they have a destination for folks to go and they can find, you know, I think that they should lean into that they have there the destination for the best fit for everybody, right? And really use their retail footprint to take advantage of their digitally only competitors or their competitors, you know, like a spanks that's kind of everywhere, but nowhere does that make sense? And I really love this idea of like kind of launching a confidence concierge service. So kind of rebranding their fit guarantee where you could go in and get measured for for whatever your needs were. And having those be their like undisputed internal Victoria circuit masters, right? They become the expert. They offer free, inclusive, highly trained fitting services. And they guarantee the promise that we are going to get you the best fitted, you know, lingerie possible. That builds trust creates a concrete reason to shop beyond just their brand, right? And I do think that along with the documentary style stuff, you know, the authenticity around behind the scenes, I think redefining their purpose is really important. Cadeira, I love that. I would not get rid of fantasy, right? I think that that's definitely a unique thing to them. But I would also say that it's not only fantasy. I think they're selling real life confidence would be one of the things I would say, because that's inclusive of their entire umbrella of products, not just the sexy, corseted lingerie and bomb, right? You know, that you're not going to be wearing, well, maybe you are, I don't know, to a corporate meeting. So maybe I don't know, maybe, maybe you're, maybe to, maybe to your podcast. But this allows them to like continue to expand in those different high-growth categories, but also continue to keep to their roots, right? Which is really important. I love that. So I think surprisingly, I feel like I felt pretty good about these fixes today. I love that. That's great. Yeah. I do too. I work at how I'm putting in speeds, yes. Laura, I got one more. It's going to cost some money, but it's a public company. We'd have to figure all this out. Six billion dollars. Come on, they can, they can. Well, just buy your competitors. Just buy it. You know, they've created an audience. They created a market share. They've got a category on lock. Like, we'll just purchase them. You know, and then a Victoria Secret doesn't speak to you. Add a little tag, you know, each of them buy Victoria Secret. If the central parent company doesn't speak to you, go to a subsidiary. And then it does. And then there's no apology needed. Like, yeah, sorry, you didn't have what, what you were looking for here. Why don't you try skims, you know, buy Victoria Secret? Oh, there you go. There you go. Game over. I love it. I love it. It's an investment, but they've, they've, whether it's a lot of storms since 1977. If they are really embracing what they say they are and they can do it across a family of companies, which they have, you know, little umbrella, but they could make a big umbrella. Then there's truly something for everybody. So yeah, let's let's attack that on to your brilliant synopsis, both of you. Well, that's going to take us to the end of this episode. Melissa, Kadeera, we just fixed a six billion dollar company. I guess I'll, I'll go have a sandwich or something. Melissa, thank you for starting us off. And for your amazing takes on all this, Kadeera, CMD, incredible stuff. We are your fearless fixers. We never rest for long. And companies keep breaking, which keeps us really busy. 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