Spurs on 10-game winning streak, Jaylinn Hawkins joins the show, BUD List, Bills S.B.o.B?

Live from New York. It's a show that decided not to be a player's coach this morning with my kids, Brew. You'll love it. Hard-nosed? Old school? Old school. I like that. Are these fish going to feed themselves? They're not my fish. I said I didn't want the fish tank. Oh, Dad, can you? No, I'm not going to do it. How about that? I love it. I ended up doing it. But regardless, but still, I gotta eat. I can't. What? Can I say something real quick? Brew talks a big game, but Brew also only has daughters, and I have seen him interact with his lovely daughters. I have a hard time believing you were not a softie. Oh, it was tough. I was tough on that. I was so tough on that. It's different with daughters. Yes, I knew it. He just made your wife. First things first today. The Spurs win their 10th game in a row. Why Brew's confidence in this team has grown even stronger. How about that? That's reason number one. He didn't even have to jump. Meanwhile, a fresh addition of over-under. Can the Rams win 11 games next year with everybody's All-American and MVP by one vote, Matthew Stafford. You're holding on to the one vote thing. You know, it really doesn't matter. One vote, 40 votes, he didn't win. Well, certainly it would matter if the Patriots lost the Super Bowl by one point, right? No. You would say they were closer. And finally, a 14-person Bud List. We used to get criticized on five. There might even be more. Put a whole team on there and staff members on the show, alongside Chris Broussard and Kevin Wilds, Nick Wright. There's no one on the bubble of the Bud List. You put several entities on that. You know what? I thought about motivating my man, Pato, award for this year. this week. On Sunday, yeah. Yeah, start of the IndyCar racing season. Did you show, Brew? What? Fox Sports and IndyCar sent you some custom sunglasses. I have a confession to make. Just Wilds? No, you. What? You. If we can draw out this open a little bit longer, I have a confession to make. You decided to keep them? Well, it's this Sunday in St. Petersburg, and then I think it's Phoenix, and then it's Arlington. It's the week that Brew is missing two days and you're out. So I'm going to use the promo. But you guys aren't going to be here. So you're going to keep the sunglasses? Brew, it's... What? I will be here to promote the race in Arlington. You can give them to me and then borrow them. The box says Arlington on it. You guys aren't going to be here. It's not stealing. I'm already picturing myself on the beach with my IndyCar sunglasses. Exactly. I will be here, though, wearing them on the show. It feels like stealing. It's not stealing. We start in Denver. Potential finals preview here. Second best team in the East, third best team in the West, but it wasn't close. Joker went for 30-12. Celtics had held to 84-brew on their worst shooting night of the year. Zach Cox of the Boston Herald, noting it's the first time the Celtics team shot worse than 35% since 2022. Feels like they could have used a little more offense. Somebody up there. The main red claws or whatever they're called now, I think. Did this game prove the Celtics need Jason Tatum back? No. Last night was, I mean, look, Denver I think is a better team. I think we all agree with that. But last night was somewhat of a schedule loss. It's back-to-back in the thin air of Denver. And I'm not saying they wouldn't have lost, but, you know, I'll give them. Third game in four nights. Yeah, they won the first three on the road trip. This was game four on the West Coast trip. They lost. Fine. All right. But here's the deal. I didn't need last night to tell me they need Jason Tatum if they're going to do anything of consequence. OK. All right. Like they could have won by 25 points last night. And I still would be saying they can't win a thing without Jason Tatum. Now they can win a series maybe, but I'm saying they do not have a chance of winning a championship without Jason Tatum. I think you agree with that. A championship? Yeah. A championship, no. I could see a path to the finals. The East is so. Maybe. Yes. Maybe. Yeah, I wouldn't pick them, but I'm not even going to go that far. I'm saying they won't win the East without Jason Tatum. And here's why. Talent matters. Talent matters. You can win in the NBA if you work hard, if you defend, If you get after it and play smart and then you can shoot the three, you can win some regular season games because every team doesn't do that. But you're not winning. When it gets, you know, real crunch time in the playoffs, you're not going to beat the more talented teams just with that formula because they're going to be playing hard too. And then they have more talent. And here's where it shows. These Celtics, now look, let me first say this. The Celtics are having an impressive season. Yes. Right? I give them nothing but credit. Joe Mazzula, Brad Stevens for building that culture. They have certain types of guys that work hard. And certainly the players, Jalen Brown, number one in the MVP race. So I give them credit. But they are nothing more. And I'm not even trying to be funny. They're nothing more than a cute team right now. Oh, come on, bro. The cute team is – They can't win the East. I'm telling you. But they're not cute. There's winning. There's winning the East. and there's cute down here. Yeah, I think everything else is cute. The Hornets are cute. Okay, no, the Hornets are not cute. They're getting better looking, all right? They're getting on their route to being cute, all right? These Celtics are one in five against the top five seeds in the West, and they haven't even played Oklahoma City. So that's what I'm talking about, talent matters. They're two in five, Nick, against the top three seeds in the East. All right, now I took out Cleveland as four because James Harden, their new team. So, but top two and five against, who would it be, Detroit and New York. They're two and five. So, they started Sam Hauser, who's undrafted last night. He's good. He's okay. I mean, he's. You know, for an NBA player, like, he's okay. Can I just. Kada, Neemis Kada at the center. Oh, he's a second-round pick. He's all right. I mean, this is not top-tier championship-level talent. Who's the other guy they started? Baylor Shire. Yes, he's good. Oh, okay. Those guys are so old. They're good. They're the Pacers in green jerseys from last year. No, they're not. They don't even have as much talent as the Pacers had last year. Not without Jason Taylor. Because a lot of those Pacers guys weren't top-five picks. They were the lottery picks. Yeah. And Brew is big on pedigree in the NBA. I'm just being on talent. And he's not. These dudes work hard and grind. Okay, congrats. I mean, it is what it is. So here's the thing. I wholeheartedly agree with Brew, but in a maybe nicer way. Like, I think what the Celtics have accomplished thus far this year is wildly impressive and should be saluted. I agree. I think the fact that they have understood who the guys are on their roster and through the front office and the coaching staff have figured out, hey, given the strengths of Hauser or Cata or Baylor Shireman, what type of offense and defense should we run to best exemplify those guys' strengths? They are getting as much juice out of the berry as you possibly can given that roster. And that's commendable. It's pro sports and the job is to try to win even if Tatum was out for the year and you knew deep down if you're Brad Stevens, can't win the title. But you know what? Our fans want to see a good product, win as much as we can. So I applaud that. I think the NBA is sorely lacking that mentality from other teams. So that's all good. That can be true while also being true that if Jason Tatum doesn't come back, they cannot win a championship. and for a team that in the last five years has been to the finals and won a finals and has been on really perpetual deep postseason runs for the last 20 years almost, basically since the big three were here. Brown's been to what, six conference finals, something like that, five or six? Right, and so it is truly Elbob, Larry O'Brien or LaBob or whatever you call it. Like, so if Tatum doesn't come back, I would say OKC can win. Denver can win. The Spurs can win. Detroit can win. Even though I wouldn't pick them, Cleveland can win. The Knicks can win. All include Minnesota and Houston as teams that could win. Sure. And I might even throw in Philly and the Lakers as a 1-100. Oh, my gosh. No, I'm saying. Above the Celtics? Without Tatum. Correct. The Lakers. The Lakers, I honestly think they're probably better than the Celtics. Guys, no, hold on. I noticed something. They're the best. It's the best defense in the league. You just have to blindly, blindly just say, I will give the best NBA defensive team a chance to win the title. But I don't think you're giving them a chance to win the title. Well, I was putting a small club of Spurs. No, I really mean. It's OKC. All of a sudden, Lakers are there. I put Sixers and Lakers purely because the 1-100 shot, a player like Embiid or Luka just goes basically 2018 LeBron mode, which, by the way, he didn't even win the title that year, but something like that, which is why I've been very pro-Celtics this year. I'm trying to set this up as almost a hero's journey for Tatum because I think it is a false, incorrect analysis, folks being like, man, we love Jason Tatum, but we're a little worried that he could mess up the thing we've got going because I think what the Celtics have going right now is wholly irrelevant if the goal is to win a championship. Because what you have going right now is an awesome story and is an awesome season, but it can't result in a title. And I'm going to add one other piece to it, And this is where, because I know you're big on, he won't be full-blown Jason Tatum for a while, you know, until next year. I don't think that's a hot take. No, no, no, no. I just think you've focused on it. Now you're pointed it out. I think it's right. He doesn't have to be because he's not going to take minutes from their stars or close to stars. So here's the Celtics' non-centers, minutes this year and last year. Derek White is playing an extra 25 seconds a game this year. Jalen Brown is playing the exact same amount to the second this year. Peyton Pritchard, who's having an awesome year, is playing a little bit more, but it's also because he's gotten better. Sam Hauser is playing a little bit more, and then guys like Walsh and Shireman are playing a lot more. When Jason Tatum comes back, Derek White, Jalen Brown, Peyton Pritchard are still going to be playing those minutes. He is going to be taking minutes from Hauser, Walsh, and Shireman. And Jason Tatum at 60% is better than Hauser, Walsh, and Shireman. So, like, Brown and White and Peyton Pritchard were playing those minutes last year. They're playing them this year. So, he's not going to disrupt that. But they just lost to a Nuggets team badly that didn't have Aaron Gordon and essentially didn't have Jamal Murray. He left after the first quarter. And so it was a reminder of where they are right now in the ecosystem. And that's not a bad thing, KW. But no, you got to stand up for him. You're saying we're wrong. You think they can win something without Tatum? My expectations of the Celtics before the year were obviously not championship or bust. They were more aligned with the Pacers. two playoff teams that had their star player pop as Achilles. The Pacers have largely given up on this year. The Celtics are in second place. So I feel like a deep playoff run is a success. Now, if they fall short of a championship, I'm not going to be upset. If they get to the conference finals and have a nice battle with the Knicks, I'd be happy. I'd be happy with all of it. So I'm hesitant to rush what I think is a two-year injury or at least a Kevin Durant 500 days of non-basketball to get Tatum back for a championship that I didn't necessarily want. Not want, but I didn't expect. Expect, but I didn't come close to it. I thought we were going to be the Pacers. And now it's like, no, he's got to come back. Well, I don't think anybody's saying he's got to come back. I think he might want to come back. And the point I'm trying to make is if he comes back, it can only be, again, barring further injury, but set that aside. If he comes back, it's only positive because they can't win without him. They can't win at the level we're talking about. So it gives you a chance that they can win. Do you think that'll be the reception, though? I think it should be the reception. It should be. I don't know that it will be. I think it should be the reception. If he were to come back, play great, close to what he typically is, and they get to the conference finals or further, don't win the championship, though, I think that's great. I think the only way to assure it of being a positive narrative from Boston fans is if he doesn't come back, and then they lose in the first or second round. Like, if he comes back, the pressure is going to be ratcheted up. If he comes back, people will start expecting, even if he's 70% of what he typically is, people will start expecting, oh, they can win the East. And you would think maybe they can. But that's going to put pressure on him. I don't want to be negative, but it's not like we haven't seen Jason Tatum have bad playoff games. No, we've seen him have great playoff games and bad playoff games. So if he has a bad one because of the Achilles. No, I mean, that's fair. He could get criticized. And I don't think it would be fair. But I think if he came back and they lost in the first round, maybe even the second round, people might criticize him, unfortunately. I still don't even know what I want. Yeah, you're all. I want to. Look, he might come back and play very well and give them a legitimate chance to win the championship. I think they probably have a legitimate chance. Without him? No. If you're saying the Lakers. Stop it. Meanwhile, Toronto. I'm not saying the Lakers either. You said it. You said it. I can't hurt you. Wemby had a quiet night, but the Spurs won their 10th in a row, bro. Devin Vassell stayed hot, led the Spurs with 21 after a game with 28 against the Pistons. How efficient is he? Well, the last two games he's shooting 70% from three. Have the Spurs proven to you that they're more than just a Wemby-centric squad? Well, look, they are Wemby-centric. I mean, he is the hub and the anchor of everything that they do. You Jeremy Sohan, who started for them the past few years, is now in New York having trouble getting off the bench. So being having a guy like Wimby defensively, it helps you out because now I can really you're picking up full court. I can get after guys on the perimeter in a way I might not be able to if I didn't have this guy backing me up. Offensively, he draws attention. And now that opens things up for us. So they're all benefiting from him being the centerpiece. But they don't – he's obviously not ball dominant. They don't run everything through him, which sometimes I wish they run a little more through him. But they are – they have three perimeter guys that I think are certainly all-star caliber. De'Aaron Fox has made two all-star games. We know he's like a legit all-star. Maybe not every single year, but he's a guy that is a multiple-time all-star. Stephon Castle, I think, is going to be better than De'Aaron Fox. Stephon Castle is like, I think he's incredible. Or, you know, he's not there yet, but you see the talent. I think he's the best of their guards. Yeah, yeah. Going forward, yes. And, I mean, maybe right now Fox, yeah. Yeah. Castle, like, if he were on another team, I think he'd be putting up big-time numbers. And he's a great defender. Yes. Yeah, he was, like I said, he was picking up Cade. Can I show you my Stephon Castle defensive graphic? Yeah. I had it in my pocket from the Pistons game since he shut down Cade. I was like, well, did Cade have a bad game or was that all Castle? Wow. So, against SGA, 6 for 19, two turnovers. Against Luka, 8 for 21, three turnovers. Against Cade, 3 for 13, two. And against Devin Booker, 2 for 9, two. But go back, Bruce. No, look, that shows. And obviously, he's great offensively as well. And then Dylan Harper, he's 19 years old. Now, I think if Dylan was on another team, you know, he'd have his ups and downs as a 19-year-old. But here, with Wimby and those other guys, like he's actually really contributing. That's not to mention Kelton Johnson, Devin Vassell, like Champinney. They got other guys that can shoot and score and all that. But this is why, and remember I said this, they're 4-1 against OKC. And I said the reason they have OKC's number, And I'm not guaranteeing they beat them in a playoff series because of the youth. But they are very similar, right, in terms of a bunch of depth, a bunch of perimeter guys that can defend with energy, athleticism, just one after the other, getting after it defensively. And they shoot it fairly well from three, right? But they're more – their perimeter guys are more talented. Like the three I mentioned, outside of Shea, Jalen Williams went to, I don't want to always be about what college they went to, but he went to Santa Clara. These other, Fox went to Kentucky. I know some of the OKC guys went to big schools too, but I'm just saying I think those three are legitimate stars in their own right and they're more talented than the OKC guys that they rush at you. And that's why when they face off, I think that's a big reason San Antonio prevails. So, look, they have done, I mean, look, Presti, who kind of came from that tree, and the way they run things in San Antonio, they're superior organizations, and they're going to be phenomenal, both of them, for the next decade. Go ahead, Kato. No, go. No, you want to say something funny. Go ahead. No, I can see the little twinkle. I just want to apologize to the University of Santa Clara. I mean, are they a basketball power? I know Steve Nash. Well, we won two MVPs. I don't know. Name the colleges that have produced two MVPs. North Carolina, Kentucky, Santa Clara. That's where a lot of these guys went to. St. Vincent. UConn. This is Cass with the UConn. So, look, none of it works without Wimby. But what they have going for him is when Wimby has mediocre or poor offensive games, they're good. And when Wimby has good offensive games, they're great. And so in games Wimby plays, 15 times this year he has failed to score 20 points. They're 9-6. That's a 49-win pace. That's a good team. In the 29 games he has scored more than 20, they're 23-6. That's a 64-win pace. That's a great team. And they might end up the one seed. They are 1-1 loss behind OKC now. Because OKC lost last night with five of its top scorers out. And they have the tiebreaker. So if they finish with the same record as OKC, they get the one seed. So that could definitively matter. And this 10-0 month that they're in the midst of, we can show it to you historically, like, single month, 10-0 or better, by blowing people out. Now, listen, two of those teams. Oh, that's, wow. Since the merger, two of those teams lost in round one. You know, two of them are some of the greatest teams we've ever seen. The 73 Spurs and the 72 Bulls and then the Spurs the year after the Ray Allen shot year that Spurs team that Warriors team I mean right to LeBron his great comeback 07 Mavs was the one versus eight we believe Warriors beat them the 13 Clippers I don't quite remember I think that was the Chris Paul Russell Westbrook OKC I don't remember doesn't matter but regardless they're putting something very real together. Now, how much will playoff experience matter? We'll find out. But what they will have when they get to the playoffs is continuity. Because if you look at the lack of different starting lineups that OKC's had this year, if we can throw that up, few starting lineups this season. Spurs, the NBA average is 21. It's Minnesota who has continuity going for it, and they've been playing together a long time. I think that's more important for young teams than old teams. I like that. You know what I mean? Because you're getting the experience playing with each other now. It's also probably pretty important for the Rockets because they're getting used to Durant. So that's a no-worthy thing. You know why else, Nick, that one seed is so important? You would likely get to avoid Denver. That's right. Denver and OKC would likely meet in the second round. So if you're the Spurs, the one seed is only going to have to beat one of those other two juggernauts. Not that it'll be easy because you've got other good teams, but still. Spurs going for their 11th win in a row against the Nets. I'm willing to guarantee that one. Bills have a new coach, a new stadium, and a new spot in second in the AFC East. New head coach Joe Brady reminding everyone that this is a new beginning for the Bills. Take a listen. Look, this is year one. It's not year 10, right? And I think that that's – look, there's been a foundation that's been set here, and it might be a little different in a sense of we understand what expectations and everything that comes with it, right? But this isn't just, hey, you know, Joe Brady's in and everything's just as business as usual, right? And so it's important that everybody in the organization knows it, because if we continue to speak about how things used to be, then we'll never continue to go forward. And so I have so much respect for the past, but it's year one in organization right now. You buying that? Well, looking at it, I watched more of this, you know. And in the context, I don't think he was saying, hey, we're starting all over from scratch or whatever like that. So in fairness, I don't think he was saying that. But here's the deal. He's right. It's not year 10, but it ain't year one. It's year nine. All right. And that's Josh Allen's ninth year. And they are SBOP, period. They were asked by, I mean, before this, but the moment Joe Brady signed his contract, the expectation is Super Bowl next year, this year coming up. Because every year, it's the same thing for Lamar and the Ravens. But every year, it's more so for the Bills for this reason. They've never won a Super Bowl. And they've been good and gotten the plenty and lost. We all know that. But every year they don't win it, it is going to ratchet the pressure up even more on Josh Allen and the Bills organization, including Joe Brady. So this is I don't care. Nobody cares if they go 17 and oh, nobody cares if Josh wins another MVP. If they in their season like they did this year, whatever round, it's going to be a big disappointment. And so the pressure's on. Nobody wants to hear that, oh, it's the first year and all that stuff. They got to get it done. Yeah, I just flatly don't buy this. I might buy it a little bit for Jesse Minter because he came in from the outside. He came in and, you know what, we are starting. We're going to have to start a bunch of things fresh. We're obviously going to have a lot of player turnover, staff turnover, all of it. I think I have been a little confused by some of Joe Brady's media stuff thus far. He, a couple days ago, was talking about Khalil Shakir. He's like, listen, that guy, the short version was he was saying he can do more than what he's done. He can play inside, outside, not just catch bubble screens, go down the field. Buddy, you were the offensive coordinator. You were the one calling the plays. And so I'm not going to prematurely judge it. And I do think there is something to be said for a team that's been as close as Buffalo to stick with continuity, to want to go with, hey, we needed a new voice, but we didn't need an overhaul. I think that might be smart, but it is, to me, just objectively inaccurate to be like, this is year one. No one will look at it like that. Because the person, to Bruce's point, under pressure, the face of the organization, the reason we talk about the Buffalo Bills is about to be in year 10. It's year 9 for him. And he sat in on the interviews. He got, you know, seemingly your relationship with him is what helped you get this job. Like, there is going to be, in my eyes, as much pressure on Joe Brady as there would have been on Sean McDermott. Like, now, not in that if he doesn't get it done, we're going to say he's on the hot seat. But the expectation for the Buffalo Bills is to finally win the Super Bowl, and that was going to be the case no matter who the coach was, but particularly when they hire from within KW. I agree with all of that. You're worried about the Bills. I'm not worried about the Bills. at... No, you're worried for the Bills. Yes, for a friend of the show, Josh. Yes, that's what I mean. No, you're not concerned. No, they... Welcome back to First Things First. Check out the podcast and YouTube. Do it today. Tomorrow's not promised, okay? Trying to get up to a billion views. You know. Inside jokes. Do it today. Welcome back to the show. We're doing another round of Over Under, starting with everybody's all American Matthews Stafford. That was a touchdown pass against Seattle. Those are hard to come by. Not for him because he's got 220 more games. Now Craig Mays slowly get there. Fresh off NFC Championship appearance over under is set at ten and a half. Let's look at their non-division opponents. Their division should be pretty tough. They're home against Cowboys, Giants, Packers, Chiefs, Chargers, and Bills, and on the road in Philadelphia, Washington, Tampa Bay, Vegas, and Denver. Very tricky. Nick, you love this team. Almost all the schedules look good. You do. I do love this team. This one looks very tricky to me. I like the extra home game, I'll tell you that much. Okay. I never know about people going on. I haven't looked at the internationals. It's going to come up with the Jags. Yeah, well, I think they are the team that plays the Niners in Australia, right? I think it's Rams-Niners. Niners in Australia. You know what? Fact check me on that. I could also argue the Rams never have home. But I totally agree. That Cowboys game is actually on the road. No, the Rams have better home crowd than the Chargers in that stadium at this point. But I'm going over. The – again, this is all – this isn't even in pencil. This isn't like at your sketch. You just shake it. Oh, yeah, okay. You don't even need an eraser. But right now, if I had to make my NFC pick for next year, I'd probably pick the Rams. That's not – I've been – You know what? That's not – What? What do you mean that's – He's not going to pick them and then he's going to play around. Yeah. There's a little side check. You ever watch the YouTube analytics where it's just like it spikes if something interesting happens? That's not happening. No one's like, oh, guess what? Nick is flirting with the Rams. We've done like two years of bits about it. We know. I've got the over. You kind of like the Rams, but never enough to commit to the Rams. I think the Rams have been banging on the door for years. They got through, and then the last few years they've been right there. They have given the last two Super Bowl champs their only close game in either of the last two postseasons. That's a good take. And I think Stafford showed last year he's as good as ever, if not better than ever. I think they'll have their key pieces back, particularly on offense. I like the over. I'm glad to see everybody's All-American back. But there's a part of me that fears maybe should have walked away on top. Well, that wouldn't have been on top. I mean, but he had a great year. He won his first MVP. Everybody loves him right now. Yeah. I'm going under. Wow. He'll be 38. He, I'm not, I'm certainly not going to say he's half-hearted into it because he's, you know, he's questioned whether or not he wants to play the last few years and obviously played well. But, look, Sean McVay, great coach, unquestionably. Three of their last four years, he's 10 wins or under. You know, so he's not a guarantee that they're going to win a ton of games just because he's a great coach. Defensively, they gave up, what, 31 to Carolina, 31, I believe, to Seattle in the playoffs. Second half of the season, they weren't as good defensively. So, I'm going to, again, we know this is all in pencil, So right now, the division's clearly tough. I'm going under. I think the Niners are going to be healthier and good. Obviously, Seattle's there, and then we saw their schedule's fairly tough. So I'm going under. I agree with Brew. Here's why. Every team's either going to be better, worse, or the same. Great take. What did YouTube analytics do on that, Jim, of Insight YouTube? Thanks for that. That wasn't a take. That was a preamble. Oh, okay, thanks. That being said, they have the 13th toughest schedule. Yeah. But the strength of schedule is only based on last year's win totals. So the Chiefs are right there with the Saints as far as the math goes of six win teams. I think the Cowboys are going to be better. I think the Giants are going to be better. The Chiefs are going to be better. If Joe Alt is healthy, we know the Chargers is going to be better. Commanders with Jaden will be better. Raiders, a little bit, maybe. I don't know. So, Broncos, Eagles might be the same. No, but that's where I disagree with you. Give me your paper real quick. So, like, by that same thing you're doing, you think the Broncos are going to win 14 games again? Well, they might not win as many games. Well, but that's right. But they might be better. The Chargers, they won 11 games last year. I think the Chargers will be a tougher team. So, I don't think when we say, oh, it's a tough division. It is a tough division. It's damn near impossible for the division to be tougher than it was last year, and they smashed the over. They would have smashed this over last year. The Niners, the two other teams in their division, were playing each other for the number one seed in game 272. It's hard to have a tougher division. You think the Niners will be better, though? I do not think the Niners will have a better record than they did last year. Well, maybe not record, but it'll be a better team. They might have a better record. And I don't think Seattle's going to have a better record than they did last year. Probably not. So when it comes to just picking win totals, I'm less truly concerned about overall quality of, you know, are the Niners better, and it's more about there's only 272 wins to be had across the league. How are they going to be dispersed? And so they can get guys. They can get guys. They've been – I mean, they're great against Seattle. Look, he's not going to pick them. He's going to pick Chicago and then flirt with the Rams. No, he's not going to pick Chicago because Danny's on that Chicago corner like nobody else. I might pick Seattle. This is second. Don't pick Seattle. You know, I pick Seattle. Packers' win total is at 10.5, Brew. Are you going over? You don't even need to ask me. Falcons, Bills, Panthers, Cowboys. Ooh, that Cowboys game in Green Bay is fun. Texans, Dolphins, Rams, Patriots, Saints, Jets, Bucs on the road. Packers, hmm. I think I may have been a year early on my Packers to the Super Bowl pick. Michael will be back maybe for the start of the season, week three, four, for sure. Okay. They're going to be – remember, last year, they were – we don't think of this because they've been in the playoffs a few times. They were the youngest team in the league last year. All right? Jordan Love had his best season and seemed to get rid – you know, early on he had some moments where – No, you're right. The Jordan Love moments. But later on he was strong. And, look, I would love to see them, and I guess it's possible they get a better receiver. Maybe Golden, Matthew Golden, will turn into that true number one. They need a true number one. But assuming Micah's back healthy, Matt LaFleur, too, who I think is a very good coach, is on the hot seat. Yeah. And I think that'll motivate him. I don't think he – I guess you can say he should be if you just look at the results. But I think it's crazy to have him on the hot seat. But, again, I think that could work in their benefit because he knows, man, I got to have a great season. And so I think they're going to be the over. I'd take the under. You still have a good season. Still going to make the playoffs hit in the under. That's a big number. You lost your defensive coordinator to a head coaching job, which means you lost it. I'm always – it's always more concerning to me when you lose a coordinator because he was so good that he got plucked rather than we are making this choice because we think we can improve in that spot, meaning you didn't want to lose him. I think that Micah's return from an ACL is a bit of a black box at a position and a style of play where what makes him so special, one of the things is his speed, his burst, his athleticism. So even when he is back, how long until he looks like Micah? And I do think that, and it's also their star receiver, tight end, Tucker Craft coming off a major injury. Now, he'll be back, but it's all – The backup was pretty good. No, and the backup was supposed to be the better player. Kraft just kind of exploded onto the scene. All of that aging running back, I'll just take the under for now. I'm also going to take the under. I'm waiting for Jordan Love to make the leap. There's a leap to be made. We can't have this conversation every offseason. No, but he could – but he also – I bet Brew will agree with me. He could never make the leap and just be solid. You know what I mean? Yeah, like somewhere from the eighth to twelfth best quarterback in football year over year. You can win it that way, obviously. Yeah, and like Dak Prescott, I think, never made like the leap. Like he was consistently – I mean, he was like an MVP finalist. He had an MVP candidate year, and I think Jordan Love might have one of those in his future and still never – but never just be like the perennial elite quarterback. No, but if he's in the MVP mix. Yeah. Well, I don't know if you remember Bruce Ballard. He showed up once or twice. He had a few weeks on the ballot. Let's head down to Jacksonville. Speaking of a guy who was in the MVP mix. Yeah, I mean, top five. Finished fifth. It's his second top seven MVP. That is an amazing stat considering his career. Well, I mean, what do you mean? I mean, you wouldn't think he's been in the top seven twice. You're right. I would have thought he would have had way more than that. Amazing. Home against the Browns, Patriots, Eagles, Steelers, and Commanders. On the road against the Ravens, Bears, Bengals, Cowboys, Broncos, and Giants. He's back to being the Prince. Hit the trumpets, Dust. Gee whiz. Over, under. Nine and a half. Actually, that's an insult. I was going to say. That's a slap. Vegas doesn't believe it. That's a slap in the Prince in Jacksonville's face. They just got the good announcement from a couple days ago. Once again, back-to-back London game. That's a good announcement. For the Jags, it is. For the Jags, it's an advantage at this point. They're playing six games in Florida. But here's why I think it's an advantage. they're used to it. It's all, and whoever is coming over, they're like, okay, this is our one Europe trip. Maybe they haven't even gone to one previously. They have to learn it. The Jags, you know, have a system for when they go over there, and the second game on that Europe trip for them, they'll have been there for 10 days already, and the other team will have just gotten there. So I do think, you know, that there is something of an edge in that compared to the opponent. I also, I think the Titans are still building and far away. I think we don't know who's playing quarterback for the Colts. You're talking about an Achilles being a two-year injury for Jason Tatum. Daniel Jones popped his four months ago, sadly. And I know you have recreated the 2025 Texans into an amalgamation of the 85 Bears, 2,000. It's just the stats when you look at them. They're lying right up there with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. But I just, I think that this is a tough offseason for CJ. And the Texans still have real questions all across their offense outside of CJ. The offensive line, the skill position guys, all of it. So that division, that quarterback, that schedule, I love the over for Jacksonville. I'm not as high on them as you, and I really had trouble with this answer, but I'm going to go over. Like you said, the division, I don't think Tennessee's ready. Jones probably won't be back for Indy. And I do think C.J. will bounce back, but still, you know, we'll see. So I like Liam Cohen. I'm not convinced the Prince is like, okay, this is who he is now. But 10 wins, I think they can get there. And we didn't even mention it, KW, Travis Hunter. They're going to get more from Travis Hunter next year than they did this year. NFL hasn't made any rule changes yet. The UFL has made several and several awesome ones. Starts in about a month. We've got a few rules that we're going to go over and see what you like. Here they are. No, there's more. These are the notable ones. 60-yard field goals are worth four. A catch, you only need one foot in college rules. No tush push. Bang. No punting inside the 50. And you can have a three-point attempt after touchdowns. The eight. The eight. So, a one-pointers from the two, a two-pointers from the two. They don't have extra points. No, you go for it no matter what. It's a one-pointers from the two, a two-pointers from the five, and a three-pointers from the eight. So, you, in theory, could get a nine-point score. A touchdown plus the three. Okay. I have it committed to memory, KW. You're going to fact-check me on it. One-point conversion is a 33-yard field goal. Two-point conversion, ball placed at the two. At the two. Okay, and the three-point. Three-point is ball placed at the eight. Yeah. Yeah, so if you just want your own. It was like the NFL except for the three. Yeah. And so, listen. I'm taking three every time. You're going for three every time? I think so, right? I mean, I think it would be a game time score situation. But can I say this? Getting rid of the tush push, love it. And they're not doing it because one UFL team's awesome at it. They're doing it because it's bad for TV and it's not a football play. So, I love that. And I love forcing coaches into aggressiveness by saying, once you're inside the 50, you're not allowed to pump the ball. Go for it. And so I think that is, I understand that the NFL wouldn't ever take that agency away from its coaches, but I like that a lot. The idea that once you're closer to the end zone than you are from your own end zone, You should either be kicking a field goal or going for it, not punting. And we're just going to mandate that by rule. I like that a lot. Yeah, no, I like some of these, too. Look, I like the 60-yard field goal. Being worth four? Four points. No. I like that. The price of my Brandon Aubrey take is aging by day. No, he could demand $15 million a year if that happens. Tush push, I'm fine because for me, it's the ability to officiate it. Or inability, whatever you want to call it. I don't want the one foot in bounds. I think the best receivers, obviously, in the world are in the NFL, and they're capable of doing it with two. Has anybody, maybe I missed it, is anybody complaining because the NFL players have to have two feet in? When have you been complaining about that? Privately. I would prefer. I'm a fan of the spectacular. I agree. It's a rule change that's not revolutionary. Just like, let's do it like college. And it would lead to more spectacular catches. I'm also tired of looking at blades of grass and this and that. And, oh, toe tap. I think it's just cooler. You still might have that with one foot. Maybe not as much. But, you know. I understand Brew's point, which is at the absolute pinnacle of the sport, what makes it the most spectacular is it's the hardest to do and you can do it. Right. So I think the UFL doing one foot makes a ton of sense because that is like as far as. Receivers aren't as good. Right. They're not. And so and it does reward the spectacular. So I like I like that rule for the UFL. I agree with Brew about the NFL. The three point. That's interesting. I mean look like you said aggressiveness more offense because I do think I don know if the numbers play it out but it does look like defenses Remember a few years ago the offensive seemed ahead of the defense It feels like the defense have adjusted a little bit and catching up a little bit. So this puts more scoring into it. So, yeah, maybe I'm fine with that. Sorry, the other thing that having the three-point extra point, if you will, where a touchdown can be worth nine, it would also, my guess is. Eight games closer. But it would cause, it would force more aggressiveness from teams who are ahead. That if you're up, right now, if you're up six, you're like, oh, okay. One field goal from us and it's a two-score game. Not if somebody can get nine, you know what I mean, in one score. So it makes you continue to try to accumulate points. Love it. I like all these. I like them. It's a nice thing. Every single one of them? Wow. I mean, I've got three pages of them. I don't know if I love every single one. Live from New York, it's a show that had to make a quick run to the post office today. Not too much traffic post-Christmas after Santa's letters. Second hour of First Things First. What a show we have today, huh? We're all just lucky to be alive. Today, Aaron Rodgers to the Vikings. Very interesting. Vikings GM said, you know what? Everything's on the board. I think Brew likes it. Brew pitch it as a question. Sometimes he pitches questions that he wants to just roast. They're like, hey, Brew, you like it? He's like, wrong. Why would you think that? Meanwhile, the Patriots, Jalen Hawkins, number 21, joins the show. I've got 50 questions. Nick and Brew have two. So we'll see how that one goes. He makes some nice picks. He's a great player and very versatile. Also a free agent. So I'm going to try to do this. You might not even be with your team next year. That would hurt my feelings. Right now, it's time for the most motivational segment in all of sports. Also a time where we read some viewer mail. We get all sorts of mail, all shapes and sizes. Sometimes I get huge packages. Sometimes just little notes, almost like... Little notes. Little notes. With no address or stamp on them? I don't know. How do they get... Do they just get delivered to the mailbox or like slid under your door in your shared office? It was just here. Oh. Just ripped it in half. Doesn't matter. It's so little. Dear Wilds, love the show and glad everyone is back. Well, you and me both friend. Is it true? As Brew mentioned, Nick was just playing cards out on the West Coast. Here's Ryan and Brian. I tried to say no. Brew said yes. And then Hobbs who does follow, is a bit of a card player himself said, we do have some visual evidence of you out West playing cards in a vest. Do you wear a vest? No, what is this? What? Jackson Blade. Jackson Blade is there. I look terrible. It's not. He said you were at Guacamole Joe's. No, it was Artichoke Joe's. And you don't have your highlights in. That's part of the problem. Or your dog's out. He told me. He's like, do you want to watch a poker highlight? I was like, sure, I'll watch one. I sent it to you. I haven't seen it yet. We're going to watch. Brew and I are going to watch in the break. How long is it? Four minutes? Yeah. Wow. You want to watch it? Not for four minutes. Forty seconds, maybe. It's four minutes. All right. Let's get to it. At number three, LaMelo Ball. Here we go. I said something in the break that I think this will surprise you guys. Just initially, once you think about it, you'll be like, yeah, this makes sense. Okay. This is his sixth year. Yeah, that makes sense. That didn't knock you. That was it. You teased that for 10 minutes. He's been injured a bit. He's, you know, kind of off the radar because the team's – it just feels like, man, he's already been in the league six years, you know. Came in as such a ballyhooed rookie. Was rookie of the year over Anthony Edwards somehow. But anyway. Same draft class as Anthony Edwards and James Wiseman. Yeah. It just feels like he hadn't been in that long. But six years, you're a veteran. Yeah. You're a vet. See, calling him a veteran would shock you. There you go. Okay. Now you're there. But you're in six years. You are a veteran. I know he came in early. But anyway, here we go. LaMelo, you have to decide what you want to be. Do you want to be like a guy that plays in the playoffs, all-star games, and has legitimate success, maybe reaches your full potential as a player, which is a very high potential? Or do you want to kind of be this underground legend that your rebels really love on the streets? They like, yo, Melo, that boy is bad. Like, and, you know, there's always somebody in the debate that wants to stun you with the answer you didn't think. You know who really is the best player in the league? LaMelo Ball. Like, do you want to be that guy who people love because you're like an and one mixtape guy in the NBA? Or do you want to be the guy that really has legitimate success in the league? Or third option, paddle award. Race car driver. Oh, well, that, yeah. I'm trying to stay away from that. That was a little more demolition derby, by the way. But anyway, here's the good news, Mello. Because you want street cred. You can be both. Wow. You can be both. You just, and you are on the right track on the court, off the court, you know. On the court, you're on the right track. This year, you have taken your shots down from 21 a game last year to 17. That's a four-shot drop. Good on you. Your turnovers have dropped from three and a half per game to below three a game. You're starting, I've been clamoring for this for the last few years, you're starting to play winning basketball, all right? and you got two other young guys to run with you, Con Caniple, the rookie, who's playing well, Brandon Miller, who's looking like maybe he'll be a future star as well. You guys could be a nice big three. You've won 12 of your last 15 games. You've gotten into the play-in spot. I don't know if you can get all the way up to the playoffs legitimately in the top six, but maybe you can get there, you know, by winning some play-in games. But keep up the good work. I do believe in your ability, and I'm pulling for you, Lil Mello. All right, at number two, Nick's guy, Joel Embiid. Now, Nick thinks you are still a top 15. Was it top 15 or top 10? Top 15. Top 15 player in the NBA. I'm skeptical because you're a part-time player. Let's just keep it real. That's what you are now. You're still great when you play. 26 points a game, only about seven and a half boards. But, hey, I get it. Your body's been sapped because of injuries and things like that. I'm not putting all of that on you. It is what it is. But here's the deal, and Nick kind of mentioned this. If his plan, Nick's plan, is correct that, hey, just get Joel to the playoffs and just have Joel be healthy for the playoffs, if that happens, Joel, I want to see something, all right? Because here's the deal. With Embiid playing, they are 20-12. That's a 51-win pace. Without him, they're 12-14. All right, so if you are indeed healthy, Joel, for the playoffs, guess what? Philly is not entering these playoffs with a healthy Joel Embiid as the sixth seed, a typical sixth seed. You are entering as a team, a 50-plus win team. And guess what? In a mediocre Eastern Conference, I want you to do damage. I want you to do damage. If that's the plan, if you are healthy come playoff time, Joel Embiid, I expect you to lead the Sixers to some wins. All right? Now, you haven't been a great playoff guy. You've been injured, missing a lot of games. When you play, you're 70% or whatever. So I get it. But if you are healthy this year, I want some playoff success. What is success? When will you be happy? First conference finals. Conference finals? Yeah, I mean, look, if he's healthy, if he's legitimately like 90-something percent, and he's playing with Tyrese Maxey, who's having an all-NBA year, and then you got Edge come, you got some other decent players, I don't think, like, you can write them all. I shouldn't say that. That's why I had them on my list. Pick them for the conference finals, but you can say they have a legitimate chance. Also, KW, did you get the bar? You got to read it out. I like it a lot. A healthy friend is a friend in B. I didn't get it at first. And then I said it in my head. I was like, I got it. Excellent. It doesn't qualify for the spot bonus, but it is good. I'm pulling for you. All right. At number one, the Knicks. The whole team. Everybody. Because I could just focus. I put him on the Bud list before. I could just focus on Cat, Carl Anthony Towns, but it's not just about Cat. He has to play better. He has to play strong. When he's at his best, they're a different team, a better team. But I don't want to just put it all on Cat. Jalen Brunson, Mikael Bridges, Josh Hart, so on and so forth, Mike Brown, Leon Rose, who has done a very good job with the Knicks. However, Leon Rose, you are the guy that fired Tom Thibodeau after he got to the conference finals and brought in a new coach who I like, Mike Brown. But also, Leon Rose, you're the guy that gave up five draft picks, first round picks from Mikael Bridges. And if you had some of those picks left, guess what? Giannis would probably be a Knick right now or certainly in the future. And so the whole organization, heck, I'm throwing them all in. Spike Lee, Fat Joe, Tracy Morgan, Ramsey. Ramsey. Ramsey, our guy here. Steve Scherper. I'm through all of them. Yes. Everybody that's in the front rows cheering on the Knicks, the old Knicks. Yeah, Susie. Larry Johnson, all those guys too. All right, because here's why. If not now, when? Well, that's a good point. Tyrese Halliburton, gone. Giannis Antetokounmpo, gone. Jason Tatum gone. There are other teams that are meeting. I mean, if not now, Knicks, you've been waiting 53 years. 53 years. This conference will never be as bad as it's been for many years. It'll never be this wide open. Detroit's only going to get better. All right? Halliburton's coming back. Tatum's coming back. It will never be this wide open. You guys are the most intact team, the team that has all of your stars healthy and ready to go. What win if not this year? And here's the thing I want you to avoid, New York. The boogeyman. Don't create another boogeyman. There's always a Knicks boogeyman. Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Reggie Miller, Trey Young, Tyrese Halliburton. Is the next one Cade Cunningham? Is he the next one? You got to avoid that, Knicks. So I'm putting all of you on the bud list. It's motivation. All right? I can't say I fully believe in you. I can't necessarily even say I'm pulling for you. Gee whiz, why not? But good luck, Knicks. Why wouldn't you pull for the Knicks? Good luck, Knicks. Wow. I'm not pulling against him. It is what it is. That's what it sounds like. I didn't pick them. I think Detroit's the best team in the East. My goodness. Well, it's 4-12 on a Thursday, which means you're in for a real treat. In addition to the Bud Lifts, you get a special edition of Sports Media Ombudsman. This week's edition of Sports Media Ombudsman, we'd like to shout out a reporter, Charlotte Harper of The Athletic, who I thought asked at the very beginning, and we're going to play the question and then the answer. The very beginning, it seems like an outrageous question, one second in, but then she expands on it to legendary skier Eileen Gu about a week ago at the Olympics. And I am playing this because, as the show's grandfather, and because we now also need to, as Gianna has told me, you know, reach a younger audience. I think Eileen Gu, who I understand for some people is controversial, just don't worry about that for a second and just listen to what she says, is some of the best advice for young people out there about controlling your own destiny and becoming whomever you want to become I've ever heard. And it was inspired by a great question. So shout out to Charlotte Harper of The Athletic. And for everyone on this show, 30 and under, listen to this, what I consider legitimate wisdom. Go ahead. What about us? What about me? Well, we're kind of formed. I can't, there's nothing we can, so Brew, we're out. It's going to be, we're not out, I'm not out, but this is, you know what, it's advice everyone can take, but particularly for young people. I'm a lifetime learner, you know that. Just give it a listen, it's about 90 seconds long. Do you think before you speak, because you answer questions so quickly and so comprehensively, whether it's about geopolitics or your sport or aerodynamics, Can you take us into your brain? Thank you, Charlotte. That's very kind. Oh, man. Do I think? I think overall I'm just a pensive person. I'm a very introspective young woman. I spend a lot of time in my head, and it's not a bad place to be. I journal a lot. I break down all of my thought processes. I think I apply a very analytical lens to my own thinking, and I kind of modify it because it's so interesting. you can control what you think. Like you can control how you think and therefore you can control who you are. And especially as a young person, like I'm 22. So with neuroplasticity on my side, I can literally become exactly who I want to be. How cool is that? Like how empowering is that? Right? And so the fact is I get to become every day, the kind of person that me at age eight would revere. Like I would be obsessed with me today. Are you kidding? I would love me. And I think that's the biggest flex of all time that you can have like little younger, you be proud of you today. And so I guess for me, it's like, yes, I spend a lot of time in my own head. Yes, I think a lot, but it's not really like in an egotistical kind of way. It's in like a tinkering, like a scientist kind of way. I'm always like trying to modify. I'm trying to think, how can I be better? How can I approach my own brain the way that I approach my craft of free skiing so that I can be better tomorrow than I was today? I just thought that was awesome. And I think the lesson being for young people in particular, you literally can just become the person you want to become. It doesn't I mean, you're going to be a gold medal winner or whatever. You can't necessarily have just create the professional success. But the person that you want to be, you can just slowly but surely become, I think is incredibly well put by Eileen Gu. Agency. Yes. Never give up your agency. And I think too many people are doing that nowadays. Yes. Like, I can't, oh, this is the problem. That's the problem. She is right. You still, no matter what problems are out there, there are obstacles out there, but you have your agency to determine what you want to do every single day, how you want to think, how you want to move. I loved it, too. That was great. Well, I expect you guys to keep that same energy when I said, Drake May will play better next year. He's got a three-year-old. He's young, and he's getting more experience and went through some hard dreams. I am putting NBA goaltending on the Bud list because it turns out most people, including the Lakers, Luka, J.J. Redick, me, the broadcast, everybody, don't quite know the rules. So with Celtics, Lakers, we'll run the full clip here. LeBron gets blocked by Kata. Ball finds Aiden. Kata's back and said, give me that. He puts his hand through the rim. He hits the rim and the net. Jalen comes down, ends up being a three-point play. Luka's mad. He's like, he put his hand through the rim. What's going on here? J.J. Reddick says, he put his hand through the rim. That's goaltending. I think next thing you know, this play doesn't. Marcus Smart, like, see what happened? He's like, no, no. He put his hand through the rim. Luka goes up and gives an explanation. Put his hand through the rim. J.J. Reddick, during a timeout, put on his sneakers like he wears them. Put his hand through the rim. Turns out, however, not goaltending, Brew. You are allowed. He hit the rim, too. You're allowed to do it. So J.J. Redick was fired up, but the next day, he's like, guess what? I learned something after talking to the NBA's SVP of ref development. Take a listen. Truthfully, like, he said it wasn't a goaltend. So, you know, I don't know that we want to endanger our guys' fingers, but it is like if I was Luke Cornett or Wemby, I would literally every time somebody took a shot, I'd stick my hand up in the rim and just not jostle it because I think it's an incredible deterrent. So, there we go. New defense. We talked about Luke Cornett, the Cornett contest, where you just kind of block your vision, Brew. But do you view this as now a viable deterrent? No, I view it as something the NBA should change. Like, you can't – I always thought, like, Reddick, that if you hit the rim when the shot is going up, it's golden. So, I think that part is because Reddick says, you know, you don't jostle it. Yeah. So, I think – That did – So I think that part's a mistake, but I think what they're saying is if you put your hand through the basket and don't touch the ball and bring it down, that's in and of itself not goaltending. So what Redick is saying that Wimby could be under the – You're saying if you don't hit the rim – You don't hit the rim or the ball. You can hit the rim. He hit the rim and he said it wasn't goaltending. It's just like what's jostling. Oh, okay. But I don't know. If you hit the rim like that, it should be – You can't hit it like a playground. I guess I understand. Like, if somebody's going up for a dunk and I'm trying to block it and I hit the rim, it shouldn't be, you know, automatically a basket. What about the idea of what he's saying, which is Wimby, if somebody's getting ready to take a shot from the three, three-point line, and he's under the basket, Wimby jumping and putting his hand straight through it just to distract him because that's what he's talking about. He's saying, and all of a sudden the guy's trying to see the rim. and all that. What's going on? Yeah, so I don't know. That doesn't seem, I put that in the same bucket as the tush push. This is not good. It's not good for the game. Well, it doesn't happen nearly as much as the tush push. Right. Everyone thought it was illegal. And it also was unintentional. Yeah. Right, it was unintentional. But now it's intentional and the league just changed. Well, hopefully not. The whole world just changed. Wow. Next time I play pickup. KW, you're playing on eight foot rims? No, I'm playing on ten foot. I'm going to try, okay? Did we not learn anything from your thing? You could try to become a person. It doesn't mean your hamstrings are not going to give out. Well, I'm going to give it my all, okay? Isn't that what the Bud List is about? That's true. Motivation. I think it's been a long time since you've grabbed the rim, buddy. No, that's not true. Oh, really? What do you consider a grab? Is Herbert still an elite QB? Next. Fastest racing on earth returns to Fox. IndyCar season launches St. Petersburg Sunday at noon Eastern. live on Fox, guess who we have on tomorrow? Friend of the show, Alex Pillow. We kick around friend of the show a lot, but Pillow might be one of our most recurring guests. Probably, right? Yeah, he's one of it, but he's also just friend of mine and Brooks. He made it very clear that he doesn't like it. He made, there was no uncertain terms. Tough affair. Afternoon headline sponsored by Kraft Mac and Cheese. Kraft Mac and Cheese, the best thing ever. Let's head to the combine. Chargers GM is very confident in the new Mike McDaniel, Justin Herbert combination. Take a listen. Mike is a coach that will literally create his scheme, create his offense based around the players we have. And it's not that you go out and find this specific player. So I think his flexibility as an offense coordinator and play caller is what makes, one of the things that makes him great. And just knowing the offense, I think Justin gonna take off in it Do you still consider Justin Herbert elite or will you with this combination of Mike McDaniel I never considered him elite Never He's never been elite. He has elite traits. Elite traits does not make one an elite player. DeAndre Ayton's got elite traits. We're going to talk about him in a minute. And I'm not. You're not putting him on Justin. No, I'm not. But I'm simply saying having elite traits does not mean you are an elite player. and being an elite player does not always mean you have a ton of elite traits. Almost all elite players have some elite traits. I like that too. But most of Justin Herbert's traits, measurables, are better than Tom Brady's. Oh, yeah. You know, he's got better size. He's got better speed. He's got better arm. Brady had a really strong arm, but Herbert, I think, stronger. All those things. And they're in different stratospheres. There can only be a handful of truly elite players at any position, or else the word loses all meaning. And what can you point to from what Justin Herbert has accomplished in his career that is elite? His record is not elite. His overall statistical profile is not elite. Like a bunch of yards? It's a bunch of yards, but it's not as far as where he ranks over his career. Early on, he threw for a lot of touchdowns. Right, but at this point, he doesn't have elite statistical seasons as of late. He's never had a gaudy win-loss record in one season. He obviously doesn't have any signature moments because all of his playoff games have been three very different types of horrifying failures. And I just – there are – and I'll let you go, Brew, and then maybe we can list some quarterbacks. there are pretty easily 10 quarterbacks that have a stronger case to be considered elite than Justin Herbert. And there ain't 10 elite quarterbacks in my book. A third of the quarter starting quarterbacks can't be elite. In the grand scheme of things. Sure. What do you mean? You meet a guy at a party. Oh yes. He's an elite quarterback for human beings. Yes. Yes. But for NFL quarterbacks, no. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on a similar vein. He's an elite talent. You know, I don't think he's elite. He just is 0-3 in the playoffs. Statistics are horrible in the playoffs overall. And like Nick said, you know, last few years his numbers haven't been huge. I do think, though, and I don't think one season does it, but I think this year he will have an elite season with Mike McDaniel. Really? I think Mike McDaniel is great offensively as an offensive mind, and now he's with the verdicts out on head coaching. But as an offensive coordinator, I mean, look at what he did with Tua. Tua had a phenomenal year. They scored 70 points against the Broncos one time. So I think Herbert, who is talented, is incredibly talented, I think he's going to be in the MVP conversation. He was at points early last season. You got a first-place vote. That was kind of right. But their offensive line, assuming it's healthy, and I know we joke about that, but two really good offensive tackles that were out this year, for the most part, he'll have them. I would like to see them upgrade the receiver. Ladd McConkie is good. Quentin Johnson is good. But I'd like to see them go a bit higher if they can. But bottom line is, I think he will have an elite season and have a chance to win MVP this year. Now, I don't think necessarily even being MVP means you're – Oh, that would make him a leap to me. I don't think that – I don't know if everybody always considered Matt Ryan elite. We have had MVPs who weren't elite. I think five current quarterbacks have won MVP. I mean, including Rodgers. Yeah, I mean, I think – I think you have to go like a few years – I think Matt Ryan was considered elite the year after he won MVP. Yeah. Maybe not three years after that. Okay, but I'm saying, like, Lamar is Mahomes, Josh Allen. Those guys are, like, elite for a decade. You know, that's, to me, what I'm thinking about when I say elite. So, the one MVP would have a gaudy statistic. It'd be an elite year. Yeah. And maybe going forward, he would become elite. But I'm just saying, bottom lines, I think he'll be in the MVP race and have a phenomenal year under McDaniels. The only way that I think he wouldn't be considered, universally considered elite, if he won MVP was if he had another disastrous playoff game, his first playoff game. I think if he wins MVP in first round, just gets clocked like he did that, I think could take him down. But I just, I here's your 10. Well, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar Stafford, no doubt, right? Those guys have all won MVPs. Stafford and Mahomes obviously have also won a Superbowl. I would still, I still consider Joe Burrow elite. Yes. Okay. So now we're at five. Guys, and that to me, by the way, is the end of the list of the elite quarterbacks. But guys who are in line, if it's club superstar, in line on the outside and ahead of Herbert in the line. I think you have to put Jalen Hurts ahead of him. I think you have to put Jared Goff ahead of him. I think you have to put, at this point, Sam Darnold ahead of him. You guys wouldn't. I personally would put Trevor ahead of him. I don't think Herbert has ever had a year as good as what Trevor just had. I don't think he ever has. Never had won nearly as many games. Never finished as high as MVP voting. Trevor also obviously has won a playoff game against him. But again, I knew Trevor would be a controversial one. But for me, and he is to me in the same portion of the line, so that's nine guys I just mentioned, as Dak and Jordan Love. And they're there. Now, the two young guys, Drake May and Caleb Williams, I would say also have absolutely have elite traits. They're different. But I think as far as their physical traits and tools, they are elite like Herbert. But they have not yet accomplished enough to be elite. I think Drake is closer than Caleb is obviously on that. But I don't have him as a definitionally elite quarterback. I don't have Caleb. I don't have Jaden. And so, like, that's – we've now listed half the league. And so, I just think he is closer right now to 10th than to first. So, you don't think – do you think it's not on the table that he'll have an elite year with Mike McDaniel? No, I don't want to say I don't think it's on the table, but I would not predict it. Really? Yeah, I don't – So, what do you think? You think he's just going to kind of be what he has been the last few years? Yeah, I just don't – I am not as impressed as I think others are by this player. I think that I have never judged quarterbacks by show me their 10 best throws of the year. By that standard, he's an all-time great. And I think that we are too deep into his career for it to have just always been someone else's fault. Now, maybe he will go on the Stafford trajectory. Stafford, look, there's a lot of guys. Obviously, he wasn't as bad as Baker, Darnold, guys like that. But later, they took a huge jump, and he could make a similar jump. He just was better, you know, he was jumping from a higher level than them. I think all that's on the table because he does have incredible talent and traits. So here's what just frustrates me, and this is where I think it's different than maybe Baker or Darnold or whatever. I do not think overall he has had these just awful situations. No, I agree with that. I think that since Harbaugh's been there, gotten there, he's had excellent defenses each year. Two years ago, he had the number one defense in football. To your point, I don't think he has had great receivers. I'm not acting like he's had great receivers. But when he started, he had Keenan Allen, and Keenan Allen is still very good. He had Austin Eckler early on, who was good, particularly. Right, he had Mike Williams, who people liked, and he got hurt a lot. They have spent high draft picks on receivers. Now, it's not his fault Quentin Johnston hasn't hit. I think Ladd's a good player. And, yes, this year the offensive line was a disaster. I understand that. But it has – I think he has had pretty close to, like, average overall situations. You know what I mean? I thought his coaching was bad early on with Brandon. I know, but Brandon Staley, by the way, wasn't his first coach. Anthony Lynn was, and I thought Anthony Lynn was average. And he had a great – he had some great years early on. Yeah, that's true. I mean, individually. We're going to stay in L.A., but going to the NBA, where DeAndre Ayton, according to Dave McMenamin, not thrilled with his role, Drew. After a loss to the Magic, here's what Ayton announced, and Dave wrote, quote, They're trying to make me Clint Capella, Ayton said, referencing the Houston Rockets now Backup Center, who a decade ago made his impact as a lob-catching, rim-running big on a team that made it to two conference finals. I'm not Clint Capella. Your reaction? Well, I'm not going to kill a – look, he has more talent and ability. We were just talking about ability with Herbert than Clint Capella. But he has to understand because of the way the early part of his career has gone, he kind of lost that benefit of the doubt, right? And now the best thing for him to do would be to play like Clint Capella for the Lakers. Yeah. And then once you kind of establish yourself as a valuable piece, an indispensable piece, then you can start doing, if you get your mind right, using your talent to go to a higher level. It's like some role players who've entered the league, a Bruce Bowen, for example. You're trying to just hang on and play in the NBA. You know what? Let me be a 3 and D guy. I'm going to hit the corner three and D my butt off. All right? Do that. You establish yourself as that guy. Then eventually, if you have the talent, you can start taking guys off the dribble. You can start doing a little more because you've earned that. That's where he has to go now. Now, he feels like as a number one pick overall, former number one pick, I shouldn't have to do it. You bungled the early part of your career, and now you have to do it. And here, Nick, this is where I disagree. Like a few days ago, you said if the Lakers get rid of LeBron this offseason, it's going to have to be Luka, Austin Reeves, and like three new starters. He could play a role on the Luka team. He has more ability than Gafford and any of these guys that Luka's been with before. If I'm the Lakers, what I would be doing is talking to him all the time about, This is what we need you to do to play with Luka. He can be a rim runner at catching lobs. He did it the other night. He literally doesn't want to be. He doesn't want to do that. Look, you try to get through to him because the dude is talented. He ain't the problem with the Lakers, I'll tell you that. Oh, I agree. He ain't the problem. He's not the answer either. He could be a part of the answer going forward if he gets it right. You know who would really help the Lakers right now? Rockets Clint Capella. Oh, yeah. I mean, that is, for what the team is, I agree with you, Brew. He is not, the Lakers have bigger problems than DeAndre Ayton. And for what they're paying him, he's a good deal. So I'm not trying to voice this on him. But he is the same draft class as Luka. And so I look at, you know, I don't, I think that those guys who have been in the league now eight years are kind of who they are. And the DeAndre Ayton doesn't get it all the time. Right. And so it is what the Lakers desperately need is a defensive first, rim running, lob catching big man. Which is why J.J. Redick is trying to make him Clint Capella because that's what the team needs. or young Jared Allen or, you know what I mean, there's been a lot of archetypes of that. Nick Clack, for real. A lot of archetypes of that is exactly what they need. Daniel Gafford. And you're right. He has a better pedigree and more. I like Daniel Gafford. Yeah, but Daniel Gafford, do you agree, would be better for the Leafers than Nate? Yeah, because he understands his role and who he is. Patriots' Jalen Hawkins, free agent, hopefully future Patriot as well, joins the show next. Joining us now, number 21 for the AFC champion New England Patriots team of the century, a lot of people call them. Even though he's a free agent officially, is Jalen Hawkins. Jalen, thank you for joining us. Can we just get this out of the way? And this might not be the most professional thing in the world. I know what you're about to do. Don't do this. I'm just, I have no power of the Patriots. I was just saying on behalf of every fan of the Patriots, including, and the Wilds family, who I said, hey, we're going to talk to Jalen Hawkins today. And Billy Wilds was like, tell him I said hello. We would like you back with the New England Patriots. So how is your free agency process? I know Elliott said he wants you back. I assume Vrabel wants you back. Continuity is very important. You know, we did go to the – Yeah. So what does your free agency process look like? I would say right now, you know, it's a lot. You're just waiting on calls. And obviously you're going through the process of talking teams and your agents figuring out what's best and prices and all that type of stuff. But, you know, overall, man, I'd love to be back, you know what I'm saying, in a Patriot uniform. I love the culture, the infrastructure, the cultures that we have over there, Ray Bull, everybody, man. I feel like it's home over there, and I'd love to be back, to be honest. Heck yeah. Congrats on an awesome season. You know what I mean? You've had a long career, but I think it's fair to say this was your most productive season by a decent margin. I don't know how much of that you attribute to Mike Vrabel and to, you know, the new Patriots system, if you will. But I am interested in Mike Vrabel's story or anecdote. Wilds loves him. I think everybody has an affinity for him. We saw him in the preseason, was it, when he, like, got in one of the fights with one of the players. We saw him in the playoffs. His mouth's bleeding. Tell us something about Vrabel. man variable is a cool like it's like having a big brother as a coach you know i'm saying with a little bit of father figure in him you know i'm saying because he got that disciplinary and but then he just also understands us you know he's been in the league played for a long time had a successful career but uh understands us as players and uh like wants to get to know us and uh actually takes the time you know i'm saying in this very detail when we go out to practice and in his teachings and what he does, man. So I just think overall, man, he's a great coach. One of the best I've ever had, to be honest. And, yeah, man, good dude. Jalen, how long does the Super Bowl loss stick with you? Like, are you over that already, or do you ever get over that, or do you use it as motivation, or what? I'm not going to lie. I mean, I feel like it's stuck with all of us, man, because, I mean, you work so hard to get to that point, you know, and, you know, to end up with a loss, man, it hurt. I'm not going to lie, that one hurt me. One of the tougher losses that I've taken in my whole life, to be honest. But I think, you know, we use that as feel for sure, man, you know, going on to this next year. And, yeah, you got to use that as feel for sure. But, I mean, still ultimately blessed, you know what I'm saying, to be in that situation and to get there. So, yeah. I just want to ask one Super Bowl follow-up because watching the game, it seemed like your guys' defense had a very, even more so than usual, aggressive approach in that game. Early, the first pass of the game, I forget who it was, but almost Darnold completed it, but it looked like it was this close to being a pick the other way. Was your guys' game plan in that game more, I don't know if aggressive is the right word, but risk-taking than maybe in other games because you thought you were going to have the opportunity to create turnovers? I think we just went into the game, you know, obviously with the mindset of creating turnovers. So, like, yeah, we called it aggressive. Zach called it aggressive. We played aggressive, man. I feel like everybody, you know, we was confident in our coverage, confident in our prep, and, you know, we went into it basically like we're going to go out there and basically bet on ourselves and play our game, you know, and try to dictate theirs and not let their game dictate us. Their offense dictate us. So, yeah, that was the initial thought process, man. We trusted him what the plan was, but, you know, like I said, it came up short. But, yeah. Jalen, one part that I like about the Patriots defense, your game specifically, is that you're all over the field, right? You had one and a half sacks. You had five QB hits. And then other times you've got four picks. You're also a great tackler. What do you take specific pride in? What do you like? You're like, you know what, I'm best at this. or do you just like being totally versatile everywhere? I like being versatile, man. Obviously, wherever I go with the team, but I like playing all over the field. I feel like that's one of the things in the ball. You know what I'm saying? The ball, I feel like that's something that's always been real important to my game since I was a kid, but especially playing offense. You know, growing up, playing receiver and converting to defense, I always try to put emphasis on getting the ball, and our coaches put emphasis on takeaways and the ball. So, like, I really appreciated that about our defense, man. And, you know. All right, I'm going to put you on the spot. You faced a great receiver in the Super Bowl in Jackson Smith and Jigba. Who do you feel like you have a great vantage point? Who do you think is the best receiver in the league? It's a tough question. I mean, I feel like there's also some great receivers we didn't play. You know what I'm saying? Like, that are doing good things. JSN is obviously a great receiver. But, you know, every team has their guy. You know what I'm saying? So, like, it's hard for me to say who's the best because, like, everybody has different attributes to them that make them special. Like, everyone on the team, like, every receiver one on that team has a different attribute. And obviously, like, JSN, you know, is the MVP, and his season was incredible. But I feel like everybody we played against had a guy. You know, it's kind of a hard question to answer. I ain't gonna lie. So every number one's equal. Great answer. Great answer. I don't know what I'm saying. Great answer. Everybody has different attributes. No headlines. You did a good job there. I'm just saying. We have a running gag on this show. I don't know if it's gag. Sorry, KW. What's that mean? You take it seriously. But we call almost every great catch, catch of the year. You might have had catch of the year against the Browns, I think it was. I think we can roll it for you. Take me. I'm just always curious how fast or slow your brain is going from the moment the ball is released to the moment you come down with it or if there's no thought process at all and it's just, you know, it's just kind of muscle memory at this point. I would say, man, muscle memory was also a quick thought process. I feel like every interception you get, You can't really like process it very slowly. Like I see the ball come in and I'm looking all the way in, but like it's happening so quick. So my mind is processing it quick. Like I see it. I'm focused to the tech if you can see on the film. But yeah, I feel like this is obviously reps though. You got to do ball. I do hella ball drills after practice, man. I catch about 100 balls a day. So like it was cool to see that happen and see, you know, the heart rate pay off from that. didn't have a lot of game film of Dylan Gabriel throwing it that far, so you had to be right. Okay. That was me. That's a great pick. Jalen, thank you very much. I'm sorry we have to say goodbye to you because I'm going to personally get on the phone with Elliot Wolfe to get your contract done. So thank you very much. Hope to have you back and have a relaxing offseason. Hope to see you back in Foxborough. Appreciate you guys. Also, I appreciate the door of destiny. Let's go. See you. Thank you. Thank you. Congrats on a great year. We can send it to you.