Dating Expert Sabrina Zohar: You’re Not Confused, You’re Ignoring the Signs (THIS Mindset Shift Will End the “What If” Loop for Good)

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. We're taking care of things. TZC supply eligible tabs and smart meter required. When you're with somebody, I don't want you to focus on how do they feel about me. I want you to focus on how do I feel in my body when I'm with this person. We're so focused on, are they choosing me? Are they going to pick me? That we end up self abandoning and say, my wants needs and desires don't matter. I need you to like me. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that I'm a huge fan of. I've been following her online for quite a bit now and I'm so excited to introduce you to her. I'm sitting down with Sabrina Zoher, creator, podcast host, and one of the most viral voices in modern dating. If you've ever found yourself chasing people who don't choose you, mistaking chaos for chemistry, or wondering why love feels so hard, this episode is going to hit home. Sabrina and I are going to dive into the patterns that keep you stuck, the boundaries that set you free, and the self worth you need to finally date with clarity, confidence, and intention. And I love her no BS approach. Please welcome to On Purpose, Sabrina Zoher. Sabrina, it's great to have you here. Jay, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm honestly, when I've been following your content and watching your videos, I was like, I need to sit down with this one. She's got amazing insights. I love our practicals, how real it is, but let's dive straight in. I think the challenge today is, or at least what I feel people struggling with is, almost like the old challenge of sitting there with a flower and going, they love me, they love me not. They love me, they love me not, and I don't know when that was invented. But I feel like we're ruminating, we're overthinking, we're procrastinating. How do you know if someone's actually into you? It's so funny. Thank you for reminding me about the flower, because as you said, I was like, oh, my childhood. I think what we're really looking for for me, I'm a big on effort equals interest. And I think we're getting in a time where that effort is starting to get muddied, right? We're looking at it as, are they texting me every day? Are they contacting me? And we're looking at these dopamine hits as opposed to actually connecting with people. And so I think for me, are you feeling safe seen and secure with this person? Now, that might not happen after one date, but is this somebody that is reciprocal? Are they intentional? Are they consistent? Are they showing up for you? And that doesn't just mean that they don't text you for a day. But is this person making plans? Are they actually progressing the relationship? And I think for me, you know, I'll be honest, like I have ADHD. So my cadence, my speech, I'm a totally different, with a way that my brain works. So I might show up differently and be super keen on somebody, whereas my partner is super avoidant. And he's not in the texting and his way of showing up is I'm going to spend time with you. And so I think it's really important when we're actually trying to assess if somebody likes you. I want to see one, how does your nervous system feel? Are we constantly in this hyper, hyper arousal, hyper arousal, are we higher, we low? But I really think it goes back to the old school way of doing it. Can you have an open conversation with them? And at the end of the day, can you just ask them, hey, how are you feeling about this? And what are your intentions with where we're going? I know it sounds like, oh, we all want to trick and we all want to, like, something that we can look at. But I found really, most people are pretty apt to having a conversation if we approach it in the right way. Yeah, and I think you're right. I think the challenge is that a lot of us still believe that love has to be earned and love has to be won. And so we love the idea of chasing and pursuing someone and they become more attractive than more they avoid us. And they become more exciting, the more elusive they are. And them not messaging back for three days almost makes us think like they must be really busy and cool and interesting. And so I've really got to work harder only for us to feel let down because all of those were just signs that I'm not into you. So why is it that we chase people who are disinterested or showing disconnect, not doing all the things you just said they're not consistent. They don't make you feel safe. They actually make you feel insecure because you're constantly wondering whether they like you or not. Why do we keep chasing them? And what should we do instead? The number one question I ask is if you're chasing somebody, if you're going into the room and eating in the spiraling, I want you to check in with how old do you feel and where did I learn this from. Because those are the two questions, two things in general that changed my life. Now why do we do it? It's interesting because when we ask why questions and not that we're not going to answer it but ourselves why don't they like me? Why aren't they into me? That's intellectualizing. And when we're intellectualizing, that's our way of saying if I can understand it intellectually, I don't have to feel it. And for a lot of us, at least me, I grew up in a very chaotic household. I grew up with no safety. Really, there wasn't a presence of joy or love. And so for me, it felt familiar. My nervous system, understand, oh, you're not into me, similar to my dad, then let me make you, let me earn it. And then there's the term repetition compulsion. Have you heard of it? No, I've not actually. Yeah. So repetition compulsion is a Freudian term. And essentially what it means is you're going to date the parts of you that haven't been healed. And so it's say that again, that's so good. So repetition compulsion means you're going to date the parts of you that haven't been healed. So for me, I had a narcissistic father. Every man I dated was incredibly narcissistic. Why? Because my nervous system's homeostasis was you need to earn it. You're not enough. There's something wrong with you. That gets wired into us before words can even be said out of our mouths. That is wired in based on how your caregivers are tuned to your needs, how are they showing up for you? And I want to preface as well. No one's villainizing anybody's parents. This isn't about you. The worst parents, you had a big teeth trauma. Oftentimes it could be those small little paper cuts that start to add up. Maybe you had a parent that was really busy. And they just didn't make eye contact with you. And so now you feel that I need to get somebody. And oftentimes we're self-abandoning. Because if I can get you to like me, well then my dad was wrong and everybody in the past was wrong. But what happens? Then it reaffirms my core belief. See, I knew there was something wrong with me. That person doesn't want me. I couldn't change them. That's where I ask, when I start to chase somebody, how old do I feel? Do I feel like a kid? Do I feel like, man, I feel like I'm seven years old talking to my dad. So then we're not actually present. We're not in this present moment. We're not coming from the adult. We're coming from the little wound kid that just needs to be seen, heard, loved, and understood. Then what I would say is, I start to look and say, what are my choices? If you can't access your choice, then that means we need to regulate. And so this is something that actually blew my mind. My friend's a brilliant neuroscientist. His name is Dr. Chris Lee. And he taught me your state determines your story, determines your strategy. Tell me about what that state means. So the state being, what is your nervous system state? Are you regulated? Meaning I can access my prefrontal cortex. I can access choice. Right now I feel safe. Both of us are here. But if somebody came in with an knife, we would get dysregulated. You might bolt. I might freeze. Right? Our nervous system will change. Yeah, I would just leave you. Right. Yeah. That would be it. But everybody handles it differently. Right? You might fight. Everybody is going to come out depending on what feels safe in the moment. But oftentimes the problem is that there's no tiger. There's no threat. It's just our nervous system is perceiving it because our brain wants to save space. And if our brain says it's easier for me to go, this always happens, then I don't have to turn my prefrontal cortex on and access that place of choice. So when we look at your state, think about it in, if I'm super dysregulated, my state is going to determine the story. I'm not safe. I need this person to answer me. There's something wrong with me. I'm not good enough, which will then determine my strategy. I'll text them again. I'll get them to like me as opposed to, I need to learn to sit in the discomfort. I have to allow myself because when we consider the discomfort and expand our window of tolerance, which essentially means how long we can stay in our ventral state versus going up and down, when you expand your window of tolerance, you can handle more things. Then it's not as scary, right? The person that doesn't call you, it's, that's okay. Maybe they're going through something. I don't need to make it about me. But oftentimes the reason we go after these emotionally unavailable people is because they're familiar. They're familiar, they're safe, and it's a baseline. Because if that's all you've known, then that's all you're going to do. You can't do better until you know better. Do you take perfect clients? Sure do. There's so many people I want to introduce you to now. I'm so excited that you're here. I couldn't agree with you more, and that's, that's sat so deeply and resonated so strongly for me right now as you're saying it. Is this such a thing as immediate red flags? Are there things that people can say and do that you consider to be immediate red flags? 100%. I have a few that come to mind. The first one is, my favorite question to ask on a first date is how did your last relationship end and what it had teach you about yourself? I don't care about your acts. I really, I could, I could give a shit. What I care about is, what did you learn from it? Are you growth minded? Do you take accountability and ownership? For instance, the biggest thing that narcissists will say is, all my exes are crazy. Okay, well if all of your exes are crazy, what's your accountability in it? Do you have any empathy for their experience? That off the bat shows us no thank you. Another thing that I always suggest to run is when somebody tries to say you deserve better. Because when someone says you deserve better, what they're saying is, I'm not going to become the version of what you need me to be, so you should find somebody else. We also want to look what happens when you say no, that doesn't work for me. Do they respect your boundaries? Are they pushing back? I've had that right when I dated if somebody said I want to go out at 10 o'clock. I would say, oh no, I go to bed by 930. I apologize. That doesn't work for me. Why don't we do six? Oh wow, what is there something wrong? Is your babysitter not going to let you unmatch immediately because you didn't respect what I had to say. So then what are we leading towards if off the bat you're making fun of me for setting a boundary? So I think what's important is we're so focused on are they choosing me? Are they going to pick me that we end up self abandoning and say my wants needs and desires don't matter. I need you to like me. And so we then overlook all the red flags of well, are they showing or are they holding any space for you? Do you do they use ice statements or do they blame you for everything? Right? These are the little things that we overlook and not because there's anything wrong with us, but because maybe we weren't taught any better. And I know I wasn't. I used to think grandiosity and the charm of butterflies. Those are my favorite thing until I found out butterflies are actually your nervous systems way of telling you that you might need to run because if that person wasn't as attractive, you probably wouldn't be as interested. That's exactly what I find we're willing to tolerate so much poor treatment because we find someone attractive, interesting or fascinating in whatever way, whether it's their mind, their body, their face, their charm. And someone who doesn't have those features that we subjectively are attracted to, even if they did all the other things, we just pushed them away. But again, it comes back down to what you're saying that those butterflies that we trust as a sign of excitement and chemistry and desire are usually a sign of please, you're feeling all this but don't ignore all of this. And the natural thing is it just hijacks that mindset and it takes away all of the sense that we have and we've all had that feeling right, you meet someone and you're so enthralled and impressed by them that you completely ignored all of these things. How do we feel a sense of spark in chemistry with someone but not forget our head? So that's really goes back to that regulating because here's the fallacy that I think a lot of people may not understand about a healthy and secure relationship is if you're having high highs and low lows, then that is inherently not healthy. And so that's inherently not healthy and secure because what we have is intermittent reinforcement are they giving me a little, okay, I'm waiting, waiting, waiting, oh, I come crashing down then they give me a little or high low, high low healthy and secure relationship for me at least was a lot less exciting. It was oh, when I communicate with you, you validate what I just said so I don't have to argue with you, I don't have to prove my worth and for a lot of us that can feel really scary. I know when the first time I said a boundary, I was terrified, I was so scared of my keys can leave me, he's not going to like me, he's going to think I'm too much and that was how I thought of myself and that's what I was projecting onto him now did people in the past do that 100%. But I have met my fair share, I'm a heterosexual woman so I'm going to speak in those norms where I've gone on dates with men that are, I'll tell you a story. I had a date that was written in the stars, right, I remember I was like sweating sitting next to the sky, people were like you guys have been together for years now it's our first date and we're together for five hours and we make out at the bar it's all thing. And I was supposed to seem again, didn't end up seeing each other years later this was an on and off on and off thing and he kept getting girlfriend and on and off years later I'm getting an appointment, I didn't want to give it away by saying where I was. Years later, I'm an appointment, I'm telling the girl this story and all of a sudden she stops and goes what was his name and I said his name and she turned white and she started shaking and she's like that's my narcissistic ex who literally ruined me and she was hyperventilating and she I had to hold her and I was like oh my god I'm so sorry and she was like he was abusive he was doing all of these things to me I finally got out you're so lucky you didn't go down that road and in the moment she was right because I completely overlooked the fact that he lied to me a bunch of times he never took accountability he was constantly deflecting there was zero depth right he didn't want to have the conversations now that's different than if he wanted to he would that's not what I'm talking about he didn't have the capacity. And so I think what we're looking for is when you're with somebody I don't want you to focus on how do they feel about me I really don't care I want you to focus on how do I feel in my body when I'm with this person do I feel secure do I feel confident that I could say what I need or am I scared that everything I say I don't know how they're going to react you can be excited but my mama has said to me. Anytime you're excited you need to add something at the end of the sentence for now and everything was I had a great date for now I really liked this guy for now because what it allows us to do is be in the present moment for now I really like this but I'm not projecting on the future I'm not putting that I'm only safe if I have this person because when we put someone in a pedestal we're saying they're above us I have to have them but really what we're looking for is two equals right I give 80% one day maybe you give 80% and we're balancing and we're going back and forth but the presence of safe and healthy and secure relationship actually means that it's going to be a lot less up and down and it's going to be a lot more consistent and for people like me that grew up in chaos that felt really scary because I didn't understand it. Yeah, what about what about someone I've heard this a lot lately and that's what I'm asking you from people I'm coaching and working with what happens when someone shows you all the right things for four to six weeks so they text back their consistent they show up when they say they will and then all of a sudden after six weeks of spending nearly every other day together or seeing each other multiple times a week they change. Now they're inconsistent now they message back after three days now they don't have time to see you some things come up in their life and then you're waiting around only for three months in they go yeah this is not working out that comes as such a shock to people now love bombings one version but that often feels like it's one person just trying to win you and show you and kind of you know kind of give you this perception that they love you but this is more like no which is both being adults we're connecting there seems to be regulation there seems to be consistency I'm seeing all the good signs but then two months in you're totally different person how have you seen people deal with that in a good way or in a healthy way it's jarring right I would never I'll never discredit it even once experience that when you think everything's good but even you said something in the beginning that was really important if they spend every other day together it's like that's intensity and that's the thing and that's why I can feel really scary and really because there's a lot of people depending on the attachment style that they have where they go and they operate from feelings minus fear and so for some people they'll go in 100% of I feel really good now I feel really good now because they're not taking a minute to say hey is this actually what I want what does this person have are their qualities for a lot of people they might enter it in an excitement look they're there I'm here and we're excited we're excited we're excited and then the novelty was off because the person is consistent because they're not playing games they're not being activated in the same way and that's usually when you'll start to see the pull away for me to him a big proponent of going slow going slow isn't an excuse for bad behavior going slow just means you're not expediting the stage of the relationship quick of the need to be and so what that could even look like is saying I I have plans this week I can only see you want her twice because I'm maintaining my life you haven't earned a place in my life yet and I see that a lot of the times and I used to be her I would meet a guy I saw this terrible dating advice she said always have your dates on Thursday because if it goes well you can make plans for Saturday and I said oh absolutely not no ma'am because that I'm too accessible then what I'm telling this person is I have nothing going on what do you want to do and instead they're in addition to my life non-stead of and so if I'm welcoming you into my life you have to earn that place into my life and so I would say this if it's happened the best thing to do is one not take it personally because we have to ask how could it be you now if you can remove yourself and say yikes okay I text them 300 times yesterday I called the bunch I started accusing them great if you can be self-aware enough to remove yourself and understand it but a lot of the times we have to say what's the story in the narrative that you've created about the situation because that's usually what's hurting more it's less about of course right but if you knew this person for a month and a half do you really know anything about them or is it the idea of them the scarcity mindset I might never meet anybody else they were the best I've met I haven't met anyone like this so then we're already putting them in a place that they haven't earned because if they were so amazing then they would have stuck around and instead of thinking about what if we have to look at what is and what is is that this person didn't show up in the ways that I need that doesn't work for me yeah I can't wait to send that to so many people to listen to because sadly it seems to be the reality and I agree with you completely that it's all about that regulation because when we like something we want to fall in love and we wanted to be real and we want to speed it up and we want to spend every night with that person because that's what the movie showed us and that's what the music talked about and that's what we believed was love not only to realize that you are just making your access weaker you're giving away all of yourself with not even knowing whether this person deserves it or has the values for it or as the character for it and you can see it in hindsight but then you go make the same mistake because we all just want to be wanted so bad we all want to be needed so bad we want to be loved so bad that we're willing to give away our energy our presence our body freely because it just feel so good to be wanted course who doesn't want to be wanted but here's my question who do you want to be wanted by them or you more often than not when we're I need them I need them your little's aren't scared that they're going to leave you your little to scare that you're going to leave them because that's what's always happened to them if growing up even for me my experience was my father was very abusive to us and he he was not father of the year by any means and so for me it was please come back for me please come back for me and I didn't realize that in my dating life I was doing to her what my dad did to me I was doing to her and saying you don't matter to me get away you're too much so if I'm shaming and blaming myself how am I going to grow if I show myself compassion I can actually do that and I understand the need and desire to be wanted but if we my mom again will say if you got to love yourself more than the need to be loved by other people it's not that I can't love you if you don't love yourself that's a fallacy I have many people can love you if you don't love yourself but if I need you in my life versus want you in my life it's going to be very dangerous and I found that out on my dog passed away I used to joke when he was alive I'd be like oh he's never going to die oh he's never going to die and then he did and it happened within 10 days and it was the hardest thing I've ever experienced and I lost everything in that moment and that's when I realized I can't be so beholden to an external because I lost myself I was a shell of a human but I started my career at that same time and I made that promise to myself I will never and so even in my partnership now I love my partner I think he is one of the most amazing people I've met but I also know that if today we decided it wasn't going to work I'd move on with my life not because I don't love him and not because I don't think that we could have a beautiful life together but I also know that my life goes on and I can't be holding on to somebody else hoping that they're going to validate and choose me for me to live that life I'm so sorry for you. Last what was your dog's name? His name was Klem. I've got him. He was my best friend and he was my object permanence he was with me for 10 years and he saw every heartbreak he saw everything and I think at the end of the day what he taught me was that there are things in people that can love you for who you are like I know I know I'm a big personality I know I talk fast and I have a different cadence and I come out of the bat and I know that my lot of people might not like that but if I hate that about myself how am I going to be with someone that loves that about me because I'm constantly going to be trying to change that and so my dog really taught me this really unconditional love and what that means and he also taught me that I don't need to be for everybody and that's okay. Yeah well said beautiful lessons I feel like right now everyone is exhausted with dating apps setting up dates figuring out who's going to pay for it where you're going to meet where do you start if you're exhausted with dating but you want to find love. I think what's really important is to we have to look at what's exhausting us. I used to get exhausted from dating because I was putting so much pressure. I was putting all I would match with a guy and be checking my phone like every three seconds where are they have they answered me because what was I saying they're going to make my life better. This is what I'm waiting for. This is what it is and if I'm again if I'm not focused on what is right now that I'm thinking of all of these other things it could be and so I would say if you're tired from dating then we have to start taking a break where they need and that just means again let's talk about state story strategy. If your state is burnout and exhaustion and you are just completely done then your story is going to be there's no one for me. I'm so tired I'm never going to meet anybody. I want this to be done. So what's your strategy going to be you're going to constantly go after the wrong people you'll hold on to people because you're scared to let them go and I think here's the thing. What I've learned and why people are so tired of dating is because they haven't learned to grieve because when you hold on to everything and you haven't learned how to grieve the ending of things it's going to be very difficult for you to move on and go to the next and go to the next because the reality is my partner always says think of the stupidest person you know and remember that the population is about 49% stupider right? Like there are a lot of duds. There's amazing people out there but that's what dating is and dating is that you go out and you see not just are you choosing me but do I choose you? Do you work with my life but I can't do that unless I learn to grieve and so I think with a lot of the fatigue we need to look at and say where is that coming from and then ask what are my choices? Do I have to engage in that? No. I met my partner in a app you don't have to meet your partner in an app but if your answer is I don't want to do dating apps are you okay getting rejected in person? Are you okay going up to someone and saying I love that sweater and they go I have a girlfriend. No worries thank you so much was asking for that my brother but thank you for telling me right? You've got to be okay and be really grounded in yourself apps are easier because you're and so I think it's the expectations that we have and we have to remember apps are a dopamine addiction loop and so is your cell phone that's why I'm a big fan of don't text a lot because what happens when you meet somebody and you start texting a ton you're creating a dopamine addiction loop and so your brain is going I need more I need more I need more because it's trying to baseline and then when you're stressed all of your neurotransmitters are deviating depleted and then here we are where you're a hot mess because the person didn't text you back in 20 minutes and so I think the exhaustion and fatigue really comes from what are we thinking that these people are going to give to us and then how can I live that life now so that when I meet someone I say I'm allowing you in my life because you're not going to mess with what I have and that's how it was when I met my partner I was a shell of a human I lost clam my company I was I was supposed to be in shark tank and it didn't work it was a whole thing but I remember thinking in my head I can't afford to lose myself and so when I met him I said hey and I looked him in the eyes I'll be honest with you I slept with my partner in the first date and I looked him in the eyes when we left after we went to dinner and I said I had a really great time with you and if this is all it was thank you so much I really needed tonight but if not and you're going to call me again don't waste my fucking time you better call me because you're intentional and he was like he thought that was so sexy he was like man and he said it you weren't afraid to lose me he was like you were more afraid to lose yourself and that made it very sexy because he knew that me wanting him in my life wasn't me trying to hold on to him I was choosing him I love that it's you that's so cool yeah it's a different energy yeah and that's I think and I'll be honest I didn't wake up like this I used to be so I created my career because I was so anxious I couldn't sit still I would oh my god Jay you don't want to know in my hey day I would text a guy and say like I would text him hey do you want to hang out 20 minutes would go by it in your back I do like okay guess not and then I'd get a text remember like hey I actually did want to hang out with you but not anymore and it's like they're right so right because they could pick up on I need you and nobody wants to feel that when you just met somebody yeah it's a very overwhelming feeling yeah I don't care what your attachment style is yeah but I think that's the challenge right that we are scared of being ourselves because ourselves is that right now where our natural gut reaction is to message someone hey do you want to hang out hey are you sure you don't want to hang out like you know and that's who we are because we are coming from a place of insecurity and not feeling safe as you said earlier from our past wounds and so being ourselves doesn't help either because being and so then we block being ourselves so we say oh you know what I'm going to be mature I'm going to send one message and I'm going to wait but the real you are stressing over the fact that you want to send another message and so how do you live between those two worlds between wanting to become your higher more evolved emotionally intelligent self but really you're stuck being insecure insecure confused in chaotic so that's no the only thing I'll challenge you on is who says that to you are who says that who says it to you are right I mean not who you are at the core but who you are right now that's your base level yeah totally then I would go back and say where did I learn that from because I if we're if we're going to date from lack and we're going to date from I'm insecure I don't believe in myself it's going to be really difficult to let someone love you in the ways that you deserve because the reality is and you know this you're married your partner's going to trigger you you are going to be triggered your partner's going to piss you off they're going to say things and you're like oh no but you don't because you care about this person and you love them but part of being a human is you're going to get triggered and so I think what I see especially with a lot of people and we have that insecurity is for me I would say okay is that who you are is that what you were taught because if that's what I was taught then that means that who I authentically am I authentically am someone who has a lot of light who's excited who's passionate who's we're Gary who's by vatius who's a big personality I'm not insecure I'm not those things but I do identify as that and I think that's very human so I would say what we want to start to do is look at I would never suggest somebody date if they're in such a place of lack I would not it's the same as anything else like I wouldn't suggest somebody go and run a marathon if they've never gotten off the couch it's like we want to move in steps because like New Year's resolutions your nervous system is going to go I can't do this way too overwhelming so we want to go smaller and have bite-sized kind of steps and so maybe that means that if you want to be the really evolved person that only sends what text and you are hell in a hand basket then maybe that means that we put one minute one minute because what we're trying to do is we're trying to take the stimulus and put space between reaction and response and so maybe that's it for one day you say okay I waited the minute and then I sent the text but then the next day maybe it's you waited two minutes you waited three minutes what we have to look at is what are my choices sure we can keep showing up in those ways or we can say wait a minute I need to regulate my nervous system I need to break this loop I need to go for a walk I need to get myself back into a place where I can access choice then I can decide if I want a Texas person we can have all those tools but then we have to look and say but am I identifying with something right I'm sure you hear this all the time I am anxious attachment no no no you're not that you have that I am not ADHD I have ADHD if I self identify and I fuse with the part it's going to be very difficult for me to see myself in any other light and so I think if we have insecurities we're all human I do I I think every day there's something wrong with me because I'm a person but what I do is I then stop and say what did my little need to hear what did little Sabrina need to hear when she said oh this must be why there's something wrong with me she needs someone to come and say no that is nothing to do with them I think you're amazing I think you're really cool and I'd like to hear what you want because we haven't we have to hold the space in a way that we weren't held when we were there that's how we'll start to be able to build through the insecurities date from a more regulated space but without that we're put makeup on a pig right though like oh send him this text to get this it's like I've gotten inappropriate photos it does not work like I've gotten my fair share where I'm like that's not what I expected because you can't manipulate and control other people you can only control yourself yeah I don't love that advice I don't think it works it doesn't and and it's just gamified and it's it's not you and it's a technique to strategy that ends up you know it's like strategies of like business and projects not for people and you know when it comes to people you want to be able to be authentic be yourself and connect with someone on a real perspective rather than having some perfect AI script out your perfect ex-message we've gotten a few profiles where I look at him like that was chattachybyt that wrote it yeah I actually had a client once and he I would talk to him and I was saying you know what have they said this and he was writing it and taking the exact so we had all this depth on his profile and then he would say I don't understand why might not get it why are these girls not wanting to meet me I said can I see the match like can I see the conversations hey you look pretty and then one girl even said but your profile was so deep what is this yeah and I was like you can't pretend for how long are you going to pretend for yeah that's going to be really exhausting that's going to lead you to burn out versus you're right people aren't going to like me and that's okay because I have to be my mom has always said you can please some of the people all this time but you can't please all the people all the time and you've got to be okay to disappoint people with who you are Travis Perkins Stratford has now moved to Lankinstone we've got everything from timber bricks and blocks to loads of tools plant and equipment for hire along with benchmarks kitchens and joinery we keep all your essentials in stock deliver to site and upgrade trade deals too your new Travis Perkins branch is packed with even more products more space and even better service so for all your building materials hire requirements and kitchen needs simply head to Travis Perkins and benchmarks on Joseph Ray Road Lankinstone doing what matters for the trade you talk about setting a foundation in dating I want to hear about that because I think when people are dating we almost see it as just like okay well this person messing me back I'm now talking to them now we're going to go on a date maybe this other but I don't think we have a system I don't think we have a foundation I don't believe we have non-negotiables that we create and craft to keep us on track what would you say are the foundations of dating and what are the non-negotiables that allow us to make that experience more effective for us for me my number one non-negotiable is you have to be done with your ex like I am so tired of hearing oh my ex wants to get back together I'm not over my ex it's like then please don't get back into the dating world if you don't feel like you can be present with somebody else it's okay that you might still be hurting but then please don't go back out there I think for me I want to see or you growth minded my partner always asked questions and the one question he asked was what is something you changed your mind about recently and what prompted the change I want to see are you rigid or you flexible right we want to start to understand that what happens when I say no what happens when I said a boundary how do they treat waiters I want to see somebody when they're dysregulated because then I want to did you just yell at that person because he didn't get your car at the time that you wanted no thank you I have no interest in this and so what we're trying to look and see is that first of all is like does this person treat other people well is it somewhere where I can feel comfortable are they using eye statements or are they saying you never call me you never do this okay so we're using all and never those are not really fair terms but I think when we're talking about a solid foundation that's where going slow comes into play because what we're doing is we're saying every single time I see you it's first date just to see if I want to have a second second just to see if I want to have a third but oftentimes we go in a first date and say Prince charming and the thing is Disney lied to us because Disney told us what happened happily ever after they didn't tell us did Prince Eric have a drinking problem right like did beauty in the beat did Bell not get out of the house again was she was she dealing with that we don't know what comes after it we just see happily ever after and so what we're really looking for is what does that look like to you and I think for me I was so focused on but if you like me I like me instead of saying no I actually don't enjoy that and holding the space to say I don't like that and if you don't either that's okay but I think the solid foundation comes when you can have a space where you can trust and that includes hard conversations because I think a lot of people and I'm sure I'm curious if you hear this as well I hear it every day of I don't want to be too much I don't want to push them away if I ask that they're going to think I'm too much then good for go find less if you think I'm too much I'd encourage you to go find less because that doesn't make me too much what that means is that I want to see if you are okay for me and that's why I'm big on if somebody says something that hurts you hey can I share something with you what's going on I really didn't love the way you said that it really made me feel small I felt very dismissed and discredited moving forward can we have a different way of saying it if you're partner absolutely thank you so much for telling me great move on go into you pass go collect $200 but if you can't even have the rupture the regulate and then the repair you're not going to be able to move forward with these people and so I think from the beginning that's why I told my partner that after first date I could have left and gone play a cool oh my god don't say anything what did I have to lose I myself and that was way too high of a price and so I'm a big fan of don't charm a dump please don't charm a dump on a first date please please we don't need to start talking about like how your father hit you when you're a kid your date does not need to know that we have to be really cognizant that we don't know who these people are and we don't know what information they could take and put in their back pocket and use against us trust is conditional I give you a little I see what you do with it I give you more yeah absolutely that's the foundation I want people to build which is I trust myself because no matter what I have my back and if you don't that's okay I do because I'll speak my voice now needs to be heard and it never was and I think that's part of the foundation is having your non-negotiables mean I'm not playing small anymore this doesn't mean I need to over react but I'm not going to play small one of your greatest skills Sabrina as I'm hearing you talk about this is your ability to advocate for yourself and that's what encouraging people to do is to actually advocate for yourself your beliefs your thoughts your values and I think that's a skill that no one really has or is trained in in that there's nowhere in life that teaches you to advocate for yourself like school never taught you that your parents rarely tell you that and when you're young you just ask for stuff you know advocating right you're like saying oh I want this for Christmas or I want this for whatever but you're not advocating like you're not presenting an argument or sharing a value because you've been treated a certain way and we struggle to do our work people struggle to do with their colleagues their bosses their managers everyone so as I'm listening to them like okay advocating for ourselves is one of the biggest skills and I remember talking about foundations for dating or being clear and advocating I remember when me and Rade first started dating one of the first things I said to her was I was like I'm not the kind of guy that wants to go to the cinema on the weekend and then go to a furniture store and then like that's just not who I am and I'm the kind of guy who has a purpose and this is what I do on my weekends and this is my priority and I just want you to know that that's not because I think this is less than this is just who I am and I just wanted her to be clear on what she was getting involved in where I was like hey if there's a clash between something that's a family event viewers or me and at the time I was doing like five p of per five person events in London and I was like if I've got an event I'm always going to protest my event because I'm doing that on my weekends and it's really big for me but if it's something that you really want to come to then it's a conversation but more likely than not I'm going to advocate for wanting to go to this thing and I did that not to be douchey or to be self-righteous or to be better I did it because that's just who I am and luckily Rade at the time would be like yeah I totally get down by the way if you want me to be at that and I have this I'm probably going to go to this because as much as I want to support you this is a priority for me and our relationship has continued to be that way up until this point and to me I've just seen as a great strength that I was able to advocate and she was able to advocate for herself now had I not advocate for myself and I think often what we do is we try to advocate for what the other person should do so hey when I do this can you come and join me rather than like this is a priority for me and I'm going to make it a priority for myself teach us the skill of advocating for ourselves because most of us just want to let it go because we don't want to be too much enough or crazy I think where it started from is a memory that comes very vividly when I was a kid my dad like I had mentioned was not a very kind man at times and my sister and I got into a fight and I went into my room and I remember he said open the door I promise you I'm not going to hate you and I said no you are and I remember I had a little suitcase and I only know this because I had to go back and see her and I kept asking myself where did I learn that I couldn't speak up and it was because I said dad do you promise and I open the door and he punched me in the face and I was bleeding everywhere and he left he left us for three weeks and I remember my brother on the couch saying how am I going to be the man of the house in only 14 and I was seven and so I knew in that moment you're not safe and I also learned in that moment is you can't speak up you got to keep your mouth shut girl because if you open it up you're going to have this again you almost lost your father for your family and I carried that with me and it wasn't until I started to do the work where I said where did I learn that from and I went back and I literally I opened the door for her and I told him get out of my face and I spoke to my father as the version now and I took her and I said we're out of here you don't have to live here anymore and I have done that every single day because whether she be in the attic whether she be back in that room it doesn't matter where she is for anybody that's listening you might not have that journey you might have it be something completely different but if you want to advocate for yourself you got to learn where you learn that that wasn't safe and I have to give myself permission to advocate for myself and then what I also have to do is know people are going to not be like okay with that we have to remember if you've never set boundaries and then all of a sudden you start setting boundaries of someone and they push back well yeah because they benefited from the version of you that didn't have any and so now when you start to show up differently you're going to have to grieve that people are going to leave but then what you also do is you get to choose who gets to come into your life because what you did with Roddy it was beautiful hey here's where I'm at and she says okay here's where I'm at and you're both going that works for me and you're making a choice because you're both able to make choices and that's the problem is when we think I don't have a choice well they didn't call me I don't know what to do you're not six years old waiting for your mom or dad to let you out of that room you get to choose now that took a lot of work that took a lot of tears that took meditation that took me years of having to really sit and say I'm okay with this and I would be lying to you if I said that I wake up every morning like that I have to advocate for myself online you know the internet as well as I do it's a terrible place to be and when I get trolls or attacked I'm the one that has to say I don't appreciate this get out of my ecosystem because if I don't stand for something I fall for everything and if I don't have my own back who is going to and I learned that the hard way in childhood no one had my back when who was there and so now really the way to start to advocate for yourself is to understand where did I learn that I couldn't and to reparent that version of us to be able to even close your eyes hand in your stomach and your chat your belly and just say I feel like I'm six right now and that's okay that super enough is really scared but I wanted to know that she has me and that dad's no longer here and I got rid of him now that didn't make it magically okay but what I did was I showed myself compassion and I was able to close the loop in my brain that it's safe for me to do that and then I deal with what comes up and so I think if you want to advocate for yourself we have to learn where you learn that that wasn't safe and then we have to go back even in meditation therapy it doesn't matter where you could do this however you want I do with clients we all do it in different ways but we have to be able to go back to those parts and tell those versions it wasn't you because what happens I don't know if you're familiar with egocentric age and so essentially what that's saying is psychology is from zero to seven zero to 10 depending on the school thought is that we are narcissistic as children you have to be that's how you learn like oh I fell okay I could get back up but we attuned to our caregivers and so during that phase if at six years old your father keeps leaving of course you're going oh it's me oh there must be something wrong because if you didn't have an adult to come and say hey they're unstable this isn't you you didn't do anything wrong their way of dealing with this doesn't mean anything about you who had those parents right very few of us then that's where we create these core beliefs and then the core beliefs become our stories and then they become our cognitive distances and then that's how we start to move to the world and so it really starts with where did I learn this from and then what did I need them that I have to give myself now and that was me having a voice and being okay that my voice is going to hurt people but it's also going to help people thank you for sharing that difficult example it's I hope that helps a lot of people because just hearing how connected they are and of course how traumatic and difficult that moment is better at the same time how much resilience it brings and how much strength it brings in this moment now because of your actions then and because of your ability then and I hope that gives everyone else permission to really do that work doing the work isn't all the fancy buzzwords and now it's it's what you just shared so openly and I'm so grateful for your vulnerability because I really believe you're giving everyone who's listening permission to do that same work before we just walk into another relationship and walk into another situation where we don't advocate for ourselves two years go by we know we've been suppressing advocating for ourselves and then that person leaves us because we never advocated and we never said what we wanted and then they left anyway I would argue to anybody that's scared right over if they leave me or what if I'm alone it's like but aren't you already aren't you already alone if I've been in relationship to where I couldn't be my authentic self and I would cry myself to sleep because I felt more trapped in my own body right I couldn't be myself I couldn't be authentic and I think the biggest thing that I learned along the way was that it's really important to thank your little because I am so grateful that my little sab learned these coping mechanisms I'm not grateful she had to but I'm grateful she did because she did keep me safe I'm here right now I'm alive I'm breathing I'm well and thank that's thanks to her and I think a lot of us look at is like I want to get rid of that part I don't want to look at them that's what got me into trouble but the more we resist that the more it's going to persist and then they're going to keep coming out and saying hey remember me I'm still hurting so if we can turn to those parts and that's really why a lot of people don't want to do the work it's really painful it's hard to look back and say oh wow yeah that's what I went through and I look at photos of little me that's like a great way to reconnect with your little and I cry every time I see it because I can't fathom why anybody would hurt her but what I do know is I'm not going to hurt her ever again and I'm not going to let anyone get next to her and that includes anyone I date that includes relationships that includes colleagues that includes everything in my life and I know that if I do and something happens I'm the adult and I have my back and I will protect her in a way that no one did that's so powerful I love hearing that so so thankful to hear your strength encouraged through all it's it's really inspiring and I hope I really hope everyone is listening and watching right now we know it's tough to do the work and it you know it's heartbreaking sometimes to do the work but breaking it open is far more likely to create a breakthrough right now than avoiding it what are the signs of an emotionally unavailable person somebody who's emotionally unavailable is going to consistently buoy conversations back to shallow so it noticed that I can't seem to have any depth with them they just keep bringing it back to that that's the first thing with an emotionally unavailable person the second thing they shy away from any conversations of commitment if you even ask of like do you want to do something on Saturday they it they really struggle they struggle to let you in and so that's where we say everything is shallow there's a lot of like and so really what I see is like one of my friends is dating a guy and it's so classic right they'll they'll hook up they have a great night you won't hear from him for days and the minute she brings anything up to him it's just gotta go can't talk about this sorry I don't want to do that I'm uncomfortable now a lot of people would look and say well if you wanted to he must just not want her bad enough but what we have to look at his capacity because in our brain want and do are two different parts of our brain so I can want a lot of thing I want to be a millionaire I'm not is that because I don't want to bad enough now I there's there's other things along the way but somebody that's emotionally unavailable what we have to look and say is it doesn't mean them are they're a bad person but what that means is that they can only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves and if that person is saying emotions are scary I don't want to be vulnerable that makes me uncomfortable then how do you think they're going to hold your space how do you think they're going to be able to show up because a lot of people look and say oh come on it's just a relationship why won't you commit to me well what comes with commitment commitment comes with having to be accountable to somebody else's emotions and feelings you were both that you're married I'm in a relationship you know being committed to somebody is more than just you go to the movies or you go to the park together that's holding space that's learning to regulate that's learning to co-exist with somebody else and if somebody's not in that space my partner he lost his sister three years ago before we met she took her own life unfortunately and he really struggled for that year to open up to anybody because he was in so much pain now is that because he didn't want to absolutely not but he was emotionally unavailable because he couldn't hold the capacity for his own emotions how is he going to hold it for anybody else that's why they're shallow and they don't really go deep because it feels very scary and for a lot of people that are emotionally unavailable it doesn't really matter the attachment style here's the thing that people hate a lot of people like to say that the avoidance or the emotionally unavailable and while they might be so are the anxious anxious people are also emotionally unavailable because they're not actually understanding what's coming up for them they're focused on the other person so when we outsource then we're are we being in touch with our own emotions are we able to say I feel this and this is how this impacted me for most people they can't and so I think what we have to look at is is there a discomfort with depth with emotionality and with going there that's the first step that you're going to tell and my suggestion would be please don't try to change them that is something that that person will do when they're ready and they have the capacity to do it but you coming into their life isn't going to be what changes it and that's the reality and I think that's almost what upsets us more sometimes because we go wait they have the potential for it they just don't have the capacity for me so I'm going to be the one to open up that capacity or if they really like me they'll get that capacity and it annoys us more so it's frustrating because when someone just when we believe that someone just isn't that person it's okay but when we believe they are that person they have the ability but they don't have the capacity right if someone doesn't have the ability to be empathetic or understanding we're like okay they don't have the ability but when you like it's a capacity issue like oh that if they love me enough they'll have it what do you do then you accepted that they might not and that's the reality if there's somebody that's growth minded and says like my partner and I were in therapy because he is a thousand percent in of like I want to work through this I don't want to be emotionally unavailable I don't want to be avoid and he's like I want to be secure I want to show up for you as the man you deserve I didn't change I didn't make him do that I told him from the beginning if you don't let me in I can't continue doing this yeah and I said boundaries and that's what's important is if you meet somebody and they're saying like I do one guy and he said oh you know I'm emotionally unavailable and I said yeah so get out of my house I was done with him done because every time I'd go and say hey I need to hold you accountable you said you were gonna do this and you didn't God don't you have your own life why are you deflecting this on to me you're not taking accountability for what you did now I could have sat and said maybe one day maybe one day I'm not betting on potential because my dad never changed so it makes me think these people will didn't matter how much I loved my father didn't matter how much I showed up for him it didn't matter how much my mother didn't matter what she did for him it didn't change who he was because that's how this works and so I would say if you're dating somebody emotionally unavailable who is growth minded and saying I'm willing to do the work chef's kiss all right continue on and see if they have the capacity and they might not that's a very real reality they could do all this work and you can still say but I need more but oftentimes it's not that I need more than you I need more of you and that's a really big discerning distinction because if I need more than you I'm shit out of luck but if I need more of you we have something that we can work with if they're willing to do the same so good yeah I love that you can't love someone into change you can only love them as they change and I think that's the mixup where we think if I love this person enough they will change no they won't they will stay exactly the same you can only love them as they decide to change if they want to and chances are if they're not showing you and by the way most people are telling us the truth oh yeah most people already saying like you know what I'm like you know I'm not ready for a relationship you know you know I don't really think that way you know I'm not into this people already telling us yeah but we ignore it we just don't want to believe them because we secretly are wishing wanting waiting hoping that something will miraculously or we we think we see a spark of it within them we think we see a glimpse of it within them because they show it to us once every 90 days right and we hold on to that once every 90 days ago but that's who they really are it's like situation chips right when anybody people in situation chips it's like so which one are you out of the bunch either one with commitment issues or either one that doesn't that's insecure because why do we get into that dynamic how do we get into the emotionally and available dynamic with people because we're not taking up space because one person is saying I'm gonna play the cool guy or girl I'm not gonna have any needs I'll be the the two-dimensional and that's why the nice guy and the nice girl finish last because that's all they have for me I find it so sexy when someone tells me no and not in the like just to say it I find it really sexy if I say I really like this and they oh I actually don't right and you're like tell me more like what don't you love about it what was your experience how did that land on you versus whatever you like I like and that's just like not really a place that you want to be but I think when we're talking emotionally and available to your point people are pretty honest and I think I'll say this I used to date the emotionally and available people because that was my baseline I knew how to keep myself safe I knew how to perform I knew how to try to be the fixer I knew how to put to project onto them all the things that I wanted them to be and that's why my mom would say what if or what is right what what are we looking at here now let me make a healthy relationship I got to say you know when someone's into you when they like you this person is going to call you they're going to conversations if you come to them with something they work with you through it because it's not about like I'm not a fan of the don't go to bed angry go to bed angry with a plan to talk in the morning because we need to have the rupture but regulate to have the repair and I find that with the emotionally and available and then with the other dynamic because if you're secure you don't entertain emotionally and available because you know you deserve more and if you don't demand it who's going to versus if you're insecure and you're like this is all I can get there's nothing else and you're convincing yourself and you're translating crumbs into a meal when you deserve the entire loaf not just a morsel of what they're giving and like you said you can't love someone into changing and that's the reality love isn't enough I wish oh boy I wish I wish all we had to do was just love somebody but if that were the case my mother would have changed my father she did everything she literally would have morphed herself into a pretzel and he still said you're not baked enough for me because when someone just doesn't have that nothing I do will change that except walking away because that's for me and I'm not a fan of walk away no matter what I think we're in a time where everything is I don't like this so leave I don't like that you say this I'm gonna go you don't say what I want so I'm gonna leave no no no that's just rigidity but what I am saying is if I'm not seeing progress and if I'm not seeing that this person has any kind of depth that we can get there I'm not going to continue to waste my time it didn't work in childhood it's not going to work now yeah and an awareness themselves without your help right and you as well I think I think that's what you're really seeing as well that isn't rigidity is oh I'm willing to change too I can see my part in this I can see my little trauma a big trauma coming through I can see my past coming through and I see how that triggers that person but then I also see I think that's where we're missing where both people have to hold their hands up and go I'm accountable I remember I came from a relationship with my mom where my birthdays were really important and I look forward to that because my mom always made my birthday feel really valuable and when I met my wife which I only discovered afterwards was in her family birthdays were not important it was always about quality time no matter what day it was so we come from two totally different worlds and this sounds like a really basic thing but they're so hard-wired and so when it was my birthday and she wouldn't make a big deal out of it I would see that as you don't love me and her take was like but we spend so much quality time together all the time why would I have to make a big deal on your birthday and it sounds like again it sounds so so insignificant but it took two things one was me recognizing that the only reason going back to your example the only reason that I think my birthday is important because that's how my mom loved me it's not because I came up with that or I really think birthday is that important and at the same time for her to realize that maybe she's never thought about whether a birthday is important or not and maybe if a partner wants it then maybe there's some truth in that but she's just accepting the world she comes from and I think we often end up in a relationship with someone else only continuing to live in a world that made someone else made for us right and so now you're in a new world living in your old world designed by a parent or a friend or a sibling or a caretaker who you didn't even question what world they were building for you and you're still holding on to it because it feels so familiar your lived experience as an everyone else's right and that's what you're saying and it's funny birthdays mean a lot to me for the exact opposite because no one made them important for me my mom was the only thing God I remember this is just to show you like how little things can add up I was nine and this was when my dad he would not buy us anything he used money as a means of control and so he would have his girlfriends that he had and they would come and go oh your dad didn't buy you this and I would just cry being like no my father won't give me anything like anything to go buy at school so no he didn't buy me that and my mom saved up money and she took me to Ross and she said you can buy anything you want and I remember going through the aisles and making all these things and then she was behind me putting things back because she knew she couldn't afford it but she never let me know that and so when we got to the register and she bought me like a pink dress I really wanted and I remember when we left she said just don't tell your siblings I bought this for you and I didn't understand it at the time and now I understand what she had to go through to save up money for like two months every time he'd my dad would give her a couple she would put in her pocket because she knew I deserved something that day and she took me to Ross she spent $20 on a dress but that made me feel like a million bucks and so when I met my partner and I would say these means a lot to me when he dismissed it that was triggering for me and to your point how was he going to know if I I don't expect him to read my mind I don't need him to just anticipate my needs there's no one in the planet that's going to do that not even yourself but when I communicated that and then we talked about it now every year he makes sure it's special for me even though he doesn't care about it but that's part of that is that I can meet and you can meet and we go and we talk and we converse and we share but what's the the real root of that is being vulnerable and people are scared to be vulnerable because if I'm vulnerable with you you could reject me and if you reject me that's the same wound I'm running away from but that's the key to a beautiful and healthy relationship is you have to have the vulnerability to be able to say well this means something to me and can I tell you why because how would he know if I didn't share the story of my mom why this means so much to me or to you or point if you didn't tell Radia about your mom she would have no idea and just think rising being so dramatic but it's a beautiful way to let someone into your life and that's emotional availability is when somebody wants you to understand where they're coming from that's them trying to welcome you in their life boundaries and communication don't keep them out they're actually trying to keep you in their life and we have to be able to read that and understand other people's lived experience. So I'm so thankful that you've done so much work because I'm just listening to you going well like there's there's so much depth in everything you're saying and I can see now that it comes from such a deep lived experience and also not letting that become your paintbrush for the future but almost washing the paintbrush before you start painting that's kind of like the feeling it's like if you only paint with the paintbrush that is your past you only have those colors to paint with and then it's limited and when I'm listening to you and thinking about my own experience as well I'm thinking yeah we're just washing that paintbrush off choosing the colors you want to choose. You guys wouldn't I would imagine you would not be this far in your marriage if that didn't come with tons of conversations hard conversations I've had conversations with Ryan where I'm like is this it like are we did we get to the end of the road and you're no we didn't keep going but it's necessary because I for me if we're not growing and evolving what's the point what is the point what's the point of both of us having a podcast if we're not helping people grow you can change you can evolve god damn you gotta do some work and you have got to commit what's the difference between me you and anybody that's listening the choices we make that is the only difference I came from nothing you came from we both come from nothing no one has a silver spoon in their hand okay now go off in the world but the choices we make are what's gonna change that and you can either have the life you want or you can live the life you have you get to choose and it is a choice it's the same with I can't move on from them I they're the love of my life I don't know how no you're choosing to stay stuck own that and then you can do because when you take a radical accountability of your life and I had to do that now I'm not saying you take accountability of everything that happens in your life right someone treats you poorly it's not about oh there's something wrong with me but it's about saying but what did I allow because you start to look I want you to look at anybody that's listening look at your friends look at your family look at your partners look at everyone in your life and if you don't like any of them that starts and stops with you because you're allowing them in your life they didn't force their way in there and now you get to choose who stays and it starts then that's a great reflection everyone can do that right now and get really really clear on that so we're in a do you believe in right person wrong time I don't I think what makes someone right is that they're in your life at the right time because for me I believe that there are people in your life that maybe you met them at a time that didn't work for you but I don't believe in holding on to people just because of timing now I think timing is incredibly important I think timing and proximity mean way more than love because if I'm not at the right place at the right time it's going to be hard but I don't believe in holding on to people if they're right for you they'll come back organically and naturally but you don't need to hold on to it and I think when we say that we grip on and say but that's the person for me and then you miss out on the all the doors that are opening because you're staring at the window that's closed I'm with you on that I don't challenge you either right I just think like you can meet someone that you like a lot at the wrong time that isn't that the definition of they're not the right person and so it's not that you won't meet someone who's amazing or you're in a bad point in your life or they're opposite where you're in a great point in your life ready for the most amazing person and they're not ready and that isn't made them the right person and like you said it doesn't mean they can't be the right person one day but yeah it isn't it isn't thing right now but I think sometimes we tell these things to ourselves because they make us feel special and better and we love bumper stickers love is our brain loves them that's why if they like you know if not you'll be confused no dating is really confusing I don't know who said that right dating is really weird I there's a lot of confusion if you wanted to he what we already went over that same right person wrong time because what happens is when you chalk people up to 140 characters or less you just slap a bumper sticker and call it a day but we are such nuanced creatures we are so complex we can't be chalked up to just a saying because then that's insinuating all of us are the same and I'm fairly certain a lot of us are different yeah and so I think what makes somebody that they're right if I admit Ryan when his sister passed we would never have been together now that doesn't mean that in the past like I'm sure you and I have gone on probably dates that that are not your wife not your partner they're like me and that was amazing that doesn't discredit the connection that you have and that doesn't mean that your partner is not it's a different connection and we have to be okay to know that you're right if this person's not for me and not to mention what makes us want them even more is that usually they don't want us because that is going to go into I have to prove it let me earn it I can get them and we go right back into the wounds instead of saying thank you so much I'm going to move on with my life when I did I held on to a guy I met my partner four months later after I let him go because I said I eat right person the wrong time you're just not for me and I'm glad I didn't yeah talking about dating being confusing I want to talk about texting dating I mean because this is you're a pro at this it's my fault the techniques to yeah seduce people or get people but the reality of being really clear about it so texting etiquette when dating I have a few questions for you talk to me if you've only been out with someone one time is it okay to ghost it's not my favorite thing to ghost but I would say we have to depersonalize it if you've been out of this person once nobody owes anything now I know people are going to scream and say bad it's your time and it's this I would love it if you tell somebody hey I'm not interested but I've seen the other side of the coin I've seen people lose their marbles I've seen people attack I've had men show up at my house because they somehow figured out where I lived and were upset that I didn't want to see them again so I would say this it would be nice if you said that you don't want to see somebody but if it doesn't happen don't take it personal welcome to dating okay they tell you they don't like texting during the day because they're busy at work but you still get anxious when you don't hear from them how does someone push through that oh that's that's our nervous system that has nothing to do with them that person clearly communicated they told you they didn't want to text they let you know that they have a life and they're doing other things and not everybody I'm so tired of the saying we all have our phone in our hands it takes 10 seconds first of all it's never just one text second of all that requires bandwidth I could be on social media scrolling and watching dog videos which I love to do all day and I have 25 text messages I don't know the bandwidth I will deal with you later that's not and and that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in you that doesn't mean I don't like you but what happens is we go into black and white thinking if they do this it's good if they do this it's bad and what we're trying to do is understand the gray I think if you're getting anxious because somebody hasn't text you back we need to look at the state and the story that you're in as opposed to that they're the problem because how else are they showing up great take okay I like this one you're always the one starting the conversation is that a sign you care more or just different communication stars that might be a sign that you're not giving them space to step in I've seen that often now if you give the space and you don't hear from this person you have your answer right there you were carrying this along but oftentimes I've had plenty of men contact me and say this girl texts me every single morning I don't even get a chance to reach out to her distance creates desire it's okay to let that go for a day and if you can't sit still that's what we need to work on not the texting etiquette someone says there are bad texts there's someone's texting behavior actually indicate they're interested you to a certain extent I think if we see what where it starts to show is when they come in at a hundred my mom always says where else are you gonna go when they come in texting every day calling you all the time super super super communicative and then you get the crickets and the go well then yes there's a shift in behavior something is up but intrinsically and stinctually is there texting behavior and a gauge of their interest absolutely not my partner text me every other day just to confirm plans we or a hey hope you have a great day talk to you later we did not engage we're three years later and here we are I don't need to text them every day because we have a beautiful relationship so we need to start to look at what else is there and if all you have is texting you don't have a relationship yeah my wife never messages been bad does she till this day I have to call her she's a call person if I call her she'll pick up immediately same with her own she's happy to talk if I text her I will be waiting yep for hours and hours and hours and I'm just aware of that at this point and she's like yeah just call me she goes I'll be I'll pick up the phone if I see your name I'll pick up the phone but if you're messaging me she's the same she's like and it's so funny she sent me a screenshot of some conversation she was having the other day and I said it's the 733 on red messages from me like I was like I just noticed that the tough and I was cracking I mean she was cracking up but it's just it's just yeah it's like that's how she likes to and she's told me that many times now I like texting because I don't have time for a call so I'm the one trying to do that same but then I'm like but no she's told me how to get through to and she does she picks up every single time I call her no matter where she is what time it is wherever she will pick up yeah and it's yeah so I I can agree more where we have the issue is the story and the narrative that's being created right otherwise there's no issue but we've put texting is a dopamine addiction fuel the same as a slot machine we're waiting so dopamine is released in anticipation of not when you get the reward that's why waiting for the text where is it where is it where is it and we're like feigning for a fix because that's a drug versus them when you get it you get the serotonin bump but then you need more because then there's another text and they wait it and we start to get hyper vigilant they put 10 seconds what they put a period they didn't put a smiley face we try to decode and at the end of the day we're disconnecting we're not actually connecting because like you said pick up the phone and have a conversation and if the person goes we talk about I'm literally on the subway dude I couldn't text you I created a narrative that's on me versus hey thanks for calling actually there is something I'd like to talk to you about and you're like okay yeah but I said something yeah absolutely and we observe it wrong like I think sometimes and I talked about by the way this works with colleagues and teams too sometimes of teams going through an email exchange with someone and I'm like I just pick up the phone and just close it like it will I promise you will get done so much quicker yeah and I've realized that with not just rather with other people on my team where I'm like and and I'm like this sometimes I don't like making big decisions over a text message yeah because I feel like it's over committing without context and so I'd rather pick up the phone and say hey this is these are three things I'm thinking about what are you thinking oh these are three things I'm think okay let's make this decision together and it feels more real whereas saying yes or no on a text it just feels like high pressure to me because I feel like I'm not giving any context of whether I want to do that or not. Text has no tone yeah we create so especially in dating well if we're going to even talk you don't know this person you match with them on a nap you are creating their tonality you are creating how they say it what they say and oftentimes we do that and how we would do it so if someone text you're like oh yes time my day is versus you guys just sent out an automated text to 30 women that morning and we create this whole fantasy basis words on a screen and then we wonder why we're so upset yeah yeah that was so good definitely all right now I've got some scenario based questions okay so if someone says they don't want anything serious but keep treating you like a partner what's really going on that's why I hate actions be glad in the words that's the epitome that they don't because what that person is saying is I told you I don't want a relationship you're still giving the access so I'm going to take what I have you have to tell them that you're not willing to allow that otherwise they will keep taking it why wouldn't they well said I like it all right you've been in countless situationships none lasting longer than a couple months and have yet to move into a serious committed relationship what could be happening you're not using your voice if you're in countless situationships and you're acknowledging that you're in situationships you're not communicating because what is a situation chip it's a relationship without boundaries without clear communication and without asking for your needs to be met start asking for your needs to be at start taking up space and then you'll start to see your relationships okay uh you went on a date that felt amazing everything aligned they said let's do this again soon and then silence what's going on there it's entirely possible that in the moment they did like you and then they went home and went actually you know and like I really just say it as if I haven't done it I've done that I've been out on the date going this person's great then you go home going wait a minute did he actually say what I thought he said or no I'm actually don't really like this and you just decide that's why we're dating and I think what I'm seeing now really big is that we want certainty I need to know that before I've gone out with you that you want to date me you want to be in a relationship you want to get married because we don't trust ourselves if you trust yourself that no matter what you'll be okay you'll ask the right questions you'll vet them properly and you'll decide if this works for you that's what we need to focus on got it okay you went on a date with someone who is perfect on paper but there's zero spark is there such a thing as the spark and should you give it another chance I would have to argue and say what are you looking for because if you're chasing a feeling you can't be surprised when you don't find it when you're chasing something that is just momentary then you're left with a human after and so if they're perfect on paper then I think what we need to look and say is what are you actually looking for and what is it that because that's a cognitive dissonance I say I want this and then these are the people that I date there's a disconnect so then I would say well then you're chasing a feeling because the spark as we spoke about earlier is usually your nervous system trying to tell you to run and sending blood to your philangie so you could get out of there but they're attractive if you don't have the spark that doesn't mean it's bad what I would look at is are you interested in topics that they talk about do you like what they have to say are you intrigued and interested in there in talking to them if that's the answer doesn't matter about the spark you don't like the person and that's the differential they keep saying I'm just not good at relationships should you take that as honesty or a red flag both it is it is an honest red flag if somebody is openly telling you I'm not good at relationships my next question what does that mean and I would say no thank you because I am it's so interesting as well that I feel like I think we all want to feel safe but it's also making space for others to feel safe enough to be themselves exactly and a lot of the time I think in the guys of trying to keep ourselves safe we actually make the other person feel very unsafe because we're like I don't like when someone does this I don't like when someone does that I don't enjoy this I don't want this and then that person goes okay well I'm not going to do any of those things now because if I tell you that then you're gonna because you haven't given me the opportunity for us to get to know each other to even deal with that level of space does that make sense it's like it's like I don't even have the space to tell you that I'm struggling with x1 z because you've just told me that you want somebody who's already done the work who already does therapy who's healed who's this and someone's like well I was about to tell you that I'm like dealing with the you know this challenge over here and I'm in therapy for it or I've been seeking a therapist or and now they're just scared to tell you and they're like yep okay cool got it oh I see it all the time I'm like I want a healed person no more unhealed who first of all who is ever healed I know that is a journey for life we if this is it for me this is boring right like if this is it if I reach my peak that's it right like I'd love more but we have to stop looking at my opically of either healed or unhealed we are looking for growth minded because if somebody is saying I want to do the work I want to invest I just need help great then we can support each other through that but if somebody isn't going to at least take accountability and ownership of their part in the dynamic and some would point yeah okay a few more scenarios let's go you're in the gray area not officially dating but not casually there how do you have the what are we conversation you don't ask somebody what it is that you are you tell them what you want you see if it aligns so if you're in the gray area you say hey I'd love to share something with you I don't know what's happening here I really like you I'd love to delete the apps and just focus on you but I wanted to see how are you feeling about that most people won't do that because they're scared of the answer but if you genuinely want to know you got to ask I love the idea of everything in life of going into it with clearly what you want from there and then you're so it's so easy to figure out where the other person lands whereas you're like hey let's kind of figure out where this is going and and what you want and they're like yeah well what are you thinking like I like the way it is right now and and your points like oh well I don't but then you don't know what to offer and what to say and then you get something go oh I like it too how go the flow yeah works for me it's in every area of life yeah go the flow is the worst dating advice yes where's the flow going is there an endgame like do we have snacks on the way like where are we going because there is no endgame and so I need clarity not the fluidity because when people say if they're going with the flow what they're really saying is like I'm not going to commit yeah okay you were dating someone this has happened to too many people I know you were dating someone who said they weren't ready and six months later they're in a full relationship but someone else how do you stop internalizing that I wasn't enough that's projection because then what's happening is we're putting our core beliefs what we have to look and say is maybe they found a partner that was better suited for them maybe that person didn't trigger their nervous system maybe that person was a safer experience maybe you were really like their dad growing up and not just made them and rubbed them the wrong way maybe you guys had completely opposing political beliefs what we have to do is we have to look and say what are the facts because if I say I wasn't enough I'm not good enough I could all be guaranteed if I talked to the other person they would say oh this is nothing to do with that it's x y and z so what I do is what are the facts to back this thought up and if I don't have any okay then where did I learn this from because if it's my insecurity that's what's really coming up it is nothing to do with them yeah your your state story strategy piece applies to all of this because yeah we start going so even if we look for the facts and most people can't think of facts because this the hard part about relationships is that everything's so subjective so you just go to oh maybe if I didn't ask for so much maybe if I wasn't always needing so much maybe if I didn't always then then they'd still be here and what you're really just saying is I'm not comfortable with what my actual needs are because you asked for them in the past because you believed you deserve them and now you're questioning whether you deserve them again and so it's coming from a place of you feeling you don't deserve those things when the reality is even if you got back with them you'd still want those things in three months time nothing change even if you got them back nothing changed nothing changed but it's really important when we're talking about this that's why it's like if you're scared to ask for your needs to be met and have this conversation then what we're seeing is that person probably doesn't have the bandwidth to begin with and maybe they do when they just haven't had the conversation with them yeah but if we're going to look back and say they have something I don't well then all we're doing is we're projecting our insecurities so that has nothing to do with the person and has everything to do with the story that you created about why they didn't want you the good news as you can control that still searching for that perfect gift for mum 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about me enough and what you're saying is someone could care or could love or could have certain feelings but they may not have the bandwidth whether that's emotional capacity or time or energy or whatever it may be but our mind goes to well no that's a sign that you don't love me because the right person would have the bandwidth which in effect is true the right person will have the bandwidth the right person will for sure but it doesn't mean that they don't care about you and that's the nuance I think what I really learned what healing was healing doesn't mean you get rid of the emotions healing doesn't mean that you just never feel sad or anxious or anything what it means is that you learn to live with it you expand that window of tolerance so you have the capacity to handle it so it's not every single time there's an inconvenience you're getting either you're freaking out or you're crying or you're shutting down it's like okay well then that we don't have the the emotional capacity to be able to hold things but that's also part of holding two conflicting thoughts I can miss someone and also know they're not right for me I can think you're amazing and also say this isn't the right relationship for me I can say that you're limited and also say but I think that we can make it through if we can hold the two conflicting thoughts then what we're actually doing is we're turning our prefrontal cortex on and oftentimes endating when we go from x equals y equals z that's because your brain is trying to actually close the loop by a shortcut and it's like I love neuroscience I think it's fascinating the more we repeat something the deeper those neural pathways become and I found out something fascinating it takes 300 repetitions for your body to remember a move so I need to do squats 300 times for my body to go okay this is what I have to do it takes 3,000 repetitions to create a new neural pathway that you would go down organically I didn't know that that's a lot that's cool so let this be 2,999 left to go of I deserve I'm worthy I believe in myself even if you don't but we got to start somewhere by creating these new neural pathways to be able to hold that space and capacity otherwise you're just going to keep going this means this and that myopic black and white the other fun fact I learned that's so good I love neuroscience the other fun fact I learned is when we get triggered and dysregulated your amygdala takes about 10 milliseconds to turn on it's almost instant your prefrontal cortex takes 10 times longer so 235 milliseconds to turn on into the seconds that's why people will go straight to they don't like me they don't want me they don't do this to your point for us to turn the prefrontal cortex on and go what are my facts can I challenge this that requires a lot of work so most people go no energy save this happened this means this your brain is a predictive machine it wants to keep you safe it's not trying to help you grow we have to read the system yeah wow I love those I've never had either of those and that's that's so helpful and only a need to practice more repetition and it's interesting you said that it's you said you need 3,000 newer repetitions and I was thinking 3,000 means if you did something once a day per year that would take 10 years to change in that's why it makes sense that so many real changes take so much longer than like 30 days and 90 days and it's like unless unless you were saying it here's off a thousand times a day which is unlikely and it's unlikely you'll believe it because your nervous system's like you're gaslighting me that's not real so we have to push through that like it's very uncomfortable doing the work that's why most people don't want to do it but if you're here because you are just know that there are other people that are you don't need to have the you don't need to have the bandwidth and capacity if somebody isn't yeah all right last scenario before we do a little rapid fire so the last scenario is you're dating someone who avoids conflict or shuts down when things get tough how do you determine whether that's workable or a long term incompatibility it's having the conversation with them of what are they going to do about it that's a really reality because if somebody is consistently shutting down they don't have that they're there's the rupture but there's no repair well then we have to say in first of all and see do they take accountability of that are they trying to do anything about that or they saying well that's who I am and this is it because you can absolutely work through that maybe they didn't maybe they learned it in childhood that confrontation means that they're bad until they shut down and maybe that means that so that means that they need to go to therapy they need to understand what came up for them they have to learn how to be present I think what we need to learn is we have to look and see if I show up as me how are they showing up as them and does that work for me because for a lot of people they're used to being abandoned they're used to having people go well you don't do what I want and I'm out but maybe they're not used to someone that says well I'm here by your side and if you're willing to do the work I'll walk the journey with you and I think that's a really beautiful place to be in growth and expansion but two people have to be doing that and if one person is going to gaslight deflect shut down walk out do this and go well not I'm not going to talk about it I don't know what your topping is going to change yeah it's so interesting how we just forget the word mutual it exists for a reason it's like all good relationships are mutual we have mutual understanding we have mutual respect we have mutual awareness the word mutual makes everything so simple and whenever I'm trying to figure out whether I should invest in a relationship with someone or engage with it or where we stand it's just whether it's mutual or not and that over time is much more evident clearly it may not be in the beginning for sure but over time you get really clear on whether there's a mutual level of desire to invest and connect and build that's why as you do the work your circle bit smaller because you start to realize you're here because I benefit you're here because you need something you're here because you're bored you're here for whatever the reasons are and that's why grief is so large because if I don't grieve the ending of things then I'm not going to people to also create new if we just constantly try to hold on to somebody all of our lives and say I'm only okay if I have them you're never going to actually be able to grow anything else because you're keeping just that plot of land and even if the flowers are dying I always use the example if a house burns down you can't rebuild it with the ashes you have to be the Phoenix that rises and rebuild it with something more solid and more concrete and it's okay to let it come crashing down you get to choose Sabrina we're going to end with this rapid fire so these have to be answered in one sentence maximum these are a list of some popular clichés some of which you mentioned already but we'll do them again some of them okay and so I want your first response and take to these okay do you believe if you wanted to he would gotta hate that saying it is my epic it is not understanding human relationships and it is keeping people single longer than they need to be want and do are two different parts of the brain instead of projecting onto them because I'll say this if you wanted to you would move on and you're not so it takes two okay uh secondly show so do you agree with there's no good men out there that is the salient's network at play and the salient's network if I went outside and looked for a green car all I'm going to see is that if you don't believe that there are good men then I could say there's also not good women or not good thays there are amazing people but if you're not finding them then we need to start to change the state the story and the strategies so that you can have different people enter your life and you can allow different people in your life agree 100% agree the frequency illusion is one of my favorite ideas and how the brain works and it's fascinating to me how we think it's positive and negative thinking and it's just noticing it's just the ability to notice and if you only think there's bad men out there you will notice every bad guy out there and you will forget because your brain has selective attention and can only focus on a few things at the same time and it will ignore the person who opened the door it will ignore the person who said thank you will ignore the person who smiled because you're focused on all the bad guys out there or bad people okay agree or disagree when you know you know I will disagree and the only reason I say that is I think for some people a hundred percent when they know and for other people it's a bit longer of a journey because some people need time to open up and it might take a minute for you to be able to explore that but I think when you know that you don't want that please listen to that when you know that you do please listen to it but I don't necessarily think everyone has the same journey agree or disagree once a cheetah always a cheetah completely disagree I think people can grow and evolve I think once a cheetah if you don't take accountability you will continue to cheat because we need to understand what led you to do that to begin with yeah and I think so much of that is also you as the individual like if you believe that someone's a cheetah and will always be a cheetah and you can't get over that then that relationship naturally when work and you're fully entitled to that because you've been through it and you've been through the pain and the hurt and so you don't need to lie to yourself I think that's the problem with that yeah that's where that becomes a challenge where you start saying to yourself that's how I really feel like I don't think I'll ever trust this person again but I think the right thing to do is give them another chance and then that gets complicated if you're going to give somebody another chance after they cheated on you you have got to make the commitment that you're going to move on because it's not fair to hold it over their head every time they do something you don't believe them you're you're checking their phone you're seeing where their location is if you don't have trust in your relationship and that's okay if they broke that trust you don't have to give it back 100% but if you're making the choice to stay in the commitment then please make the choice together that you're staying in the commitment yeah and I think that's the challenge for that person because you're so conflicted 100% it's so hard to go through infidelity because you're thinking well I do love them and I do believe them and I and I know who they are and then at the same time there's this massive you know lack of loyalty and you know a breaking of your trust and everything else that comes with it it's it's it's hard to recommit but yes you're right if you are going to then go all in agree or disagree men are intimidated by strong women I will disagree I think there are some men that are and then there are men like my partner that find strong women to be sexy because he was raised by them so I think we need to stop keeping it as if everybody is one thing and start to understand that one person's lived experience is not everybody else's okay couple more agree or disagree if it's not a hell yes it's a no again I disagree because it's back to it has to be good or this I'll be honest it took me six months to be a yes with my partner and he was a hell yes month one it's okay to take time what I will say is if it doesn't get to a hell yes then please take it as I know okay agree or disagree you'll meet someone when you stop looking that I actually will agree and here's what I mean by that it's I didn't think you were gonna go all right let me tell you why the reason I think it'll happen it's not when it happens when you least expect it it happens when you release control to the outcome and you surrender that's when I believe it will when you least expect it is kind of saying oh I was at the grocery store in there they were I don't think it's that accidental but I do believe that when you control release control to the outcome and you show up saying well if this works out cool and if not not you have a higher propensity for it to work out because you're not trying to make something it's not and that's to me the biggest difference when I see people one person that's moved on after a breakup and the other one stuck on it it's because the person that's moved on has acknowledged what it was and they're not trying to create something it wasn't versus the other person that's holding onto this fantasy and narrative that very clearly didn't exist so I think there's nuance to it but I do believe that when you release control and say hey if I'm gonna go out and if it doesn't work out that's okay that more than when you least expect it because then that means you're not being intentional and you're not putting in the energy that's a great recalibration because I was going to challenge you on that. But your recalibration is effective and I agree with that version of it because the nuance the nuance works because when I hear you'll meet someone you stop looking I'm like all right well if you stop looking then you're never going to meet someone but your point of let me actually go out there be myself not put pressure on this allow it to be what it is that potentially is going to be better for you and and reveal more of that person on yourself especially when you go out like I remember my days you go out to a club or club a whoo what am I 20 you go out to something and you're the whole place you're turning every stone are they single are they single are they single that's the pressure that we got to release so the least expect it you know what I'm saying but it's more about if I can go out and just enjoy and be present you never know who you'll meet and it might not be obvious it could be I meant you who has a cousin who has a brother who single and somehow we connected or you posted a friend in that person that's what happened my friend our friend posted a guy saying he's single and never been together for two years it happens when we release that control and we say I'm showing up for me and I'm excited to see who else is here yes all right last one I agree or disagree it should feel effortless with the right person wildly disagree and what I stand is this it shouldn't be a fight but what doesn't take work that's like saying starting a business should be effortless and just flow you have so many issues what I want to see is is there a flow and are we going somewhere as opposed to it should be effortless and I think what happens is we lie to people by telling them the relationship should be easy and there should be no issues relationships are not easy they take a lot of work but they're also rewarding and I look at as a bank account am I in the green great keep going if I'm in the red my needs aren't met I'm constantly depleted this isn't going anywhere well then that's that's the issue it's not that it should be easy Sabrina is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I did or anything that you wanted to share that I didn't give you an opportunity to know I think you did a pretty dang good job I think it just at the end of the day for anybody that's listening the main message here is not that you never going to find anybody or that you're never going to be happy or it's going to take all of this work but it's really about when you come back home to yourself then you can show up differently and the world needs more light and we have so many people everyone's trying to dim somebody else's or turn someone else's on but I need to make sure that my light is shining as bright as it can so that I can welcome everybody and so that they also feel seen and I really hope that people could do that to step into their power to know who they are and how amazing they are as a human being and that anybody would be lucky to have the opportunity with them and if you don't believe that go back to square one and let's work on where you learn that from Sabrina I'm going to personally send this episode to so many people I usually put out on Instagram and YouTube and social media but there's very few times where I'm like this is the episode I'm going to be setting to so many people in my life because I think you're spot on with so many of these things I feel like you speak to in a way that really goes to the root of what people are really struggling with and what's beneath all of this and I genuinely genuinely genuinely appreciate your own vulnerability with your own story and background because I do believe that people have avoided that or their memory has protected them from some of those things not realizing how much it's tripping them up today and you going there gives them a mission to go there and so everyone has been listening and watching whether you're walking your dog whether you're cooking whether you're driving to or from work please share this episode with a friend who's struggling with dating who's maybe just been broken up with or maybe he's just trying to figure out this confusing landscape and share on TikTok and Instagram what resonated with you tag both me and Sabrina we'd love to see what really connected with you I love knowing what each and every one of you take away from these episodes and if you don't already follow Sabrina make sure you follow her across social media I'll be tagging her on all my platforms thank you for listening and watching Sabrina thank you so much for all your insight wisdom and work and I can't wait to have you back on the show thank you Jay likewise yeah thank you if you love this episode you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussie on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships people should be compassionate to themselves but extend that compassion to your future self because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life this is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human