Why Your Team Isn’t Closing And How to Fix It with Rhiannon Ward

I hired an employee. Craig warned me. Then I found out that she was using my agency as a dating service. She started dating him and married him. Well, I'm sure he has some idea now. Oh yeah, they're divorced. Yeah. My only experience with insurance was them being kind of I think the two easiest ways with the life insurance, mortgage protection, they probably don't want to lose the house if they ever die. I should sell their life insurance. Jason, you have to sell life insurance now. We're responsible for the culture, and it all starts with hiring. One person can ruin everybody. I was born to be an insurance student, but I didn't know that when I got into the business. It is my blood. What really made you so excited about insurance, what you were in? My very first appointment. A married couple desperately needed and wanted life insurance. Gosh, I want to say their premium was a month. Everything about McDonald's is an amazing business case. The Happy Meal is genius. I even heard that some of the toys are selling for like on eBay. Shut up. We dial, we quote, we cut the fluff. No suits, no scripts, just real world stuff. From chaos to systems, growth, that's legit. Laugh a little, sell a lot, the insurance dudes, that's it. My name's Rhiannon Ward. I'm with the Phipps Insurance Agency. Phipps is my maiden name. I'm in Tucson, Arizona. And the wildest thing that's ever happened to me was I hired against someone's advice, against Craig's advice. What? I hired an employee. She was licensed and she had binding authority and I was very desperate at the time. And Craig warned me that she might be a little bit off her rocker. and I hired her anyway. By a little bit, I'd like to say that it's like calling a Lamborghini a little bit like a Geo Metro. A Pinto? A little bit like it. I needed a Lamborghini and I got a Geo Metro in her. and she spent her first couple of days searching online to find how she could file a complaint against Craig. I can't remember the reason. Didn't know about that part. Yeah and I said I'll take care of it. Give me the complaint and I will take care of that. And then eventually I So far, it sounds pretty sane. Yes. So I know it's in your agency, but I experienced the same thing. So I think what's interesting was the amount of makeup that was put on. Yeah. All day long. Yes. Yeah. Well. I mean, I don't know much about makeup myself, but it seemed like it was way more than I'd ever observed before. Like, we had done. Her desk, the reason she couldn't sell anything, because she didn't have room on her desk for leads. She had eyeliner on her desk and compound. Oh, it was so gross. So she, yeah, so she was interesting. Then I found out that she was using my agency as a dating service. I didn't know. I didn't know my book was a dating service. And I found this out when I answered the phone one day and one of my customers, One of my single, nice homes, lots of cars, customers. An older gentleman, too. Older gentleman. And she's a younger lady. Yeah. And he's like, hey, you said you're going to go with me on my bike. When can I come pick you up in my motorcycle? And I'm like, excuse me? And then it clicked that this was Rhiannon, not the person he had been talking to. in the end she found her match a man who was recently widowed had a multi-million dollar beautiful home that she wrote one of the few items that she wrote and she started dating him and married him and quit married him jackpot easily 25 year difference and one of the nicest men ever and poor guy for a soul yeah well i'm sure he has some idea now oh yeah uh they're divorced yeah and we laugh we laugh only because it's crazy eventually that relationship obviously got rocky because she came back and she actually went to worked for another agency that you and I know, Craig. And I got the same call that you got from me. And I said, don't do it. And the agent said, I'm desperate. I need somebody. She's licensed and hired her. I would rather just close the front door and roll the dice than do that. It was a learning lesson. And we, this other agent and I, we talk about it now. It was a different mindset back then. You just, you felt like you just needed a body. And if they were already licensed, it would work out. And neither one of us were really into like coaching and accountability of our LSDs at the time. And yeah. Was it MV? MV? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She doesn't listen. She always asked and then she doesn't go with the thing. Yeah. And she told me, she was like, Rhi, I need somebody, you know, it was like fourth quarter. And she's like, I need somebody. She's like, I know, I hear what you're saying. It was exactly the position I was in when I was talking to you. And I was like, hey, do whatever you want. Oh, by the way, I had a $300 deposit missing with her as well. And so I told that agent, that's back when we did cash deposits. And I said, don't let her handle the cash. I think that we had an issue with it too, like one time. And there were a couple along the years. Have you had any of that, Jason? like like it doesn't happen anymore because there is no deposit but right no i i haven't but i also didn't really do cash that much i kind of ended that i was uh i was a uh jet setter before dude in casa grande where it's you know small town it's just a weird place but No offense to anybody that lives there. It's very beautiful. So we would, like, almost everybody would pay in cash. And so we'd have, like, there would be days there would be 15 grand there in the office. Oh, my gosh. And I'm thinking, dude, I mean, this isn't safe, right? Like, we stopped taking cash. I just said, we're not taking cash anymore. You can go get a money order next door. Yeah. It's not worth it. I didn't want to, I mean, there's, you know, two dudettes in there working by themselves. That was, you know, but just for the record, this does not exist anymore. There is no cash in that building. Yeah, good. No, that was one of the changes that was really awesome. And it killed our walk-in traffic. Right. Yeah. I think this is an important story. Like, we laugh and it's funny. And, you know, it wasn't funny at the time for myself when I went through it. It wasn't funny for you. But we find ourselves in this position where we need somebody, right? Like, we're desperate. Like, and that's an emotional decision, right? Now I'm desperate and I'm making a business decision based on emotion and look what happens, right? Like, I think that the emotional payment for making that emotional decision is far outweighs any kind of benefit that you're making. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And the crazy thing was I had, you know, most of the time you're hiring people and you don't you don't really know their background you know what they're showing you and a little bit that you can maybe find out on Facebook or on you know social media or whatever but uh with this person I had plenty of information from you but it just it didn't matter because I just needed a body and I would never do that today ever I'll do the sales myself before I put a body in yeah but it's you know what we make mistakes that it's okay but I mean it's like you learned like did you learn yeah it sounds you did because you're like oh i would you know but that's the whole idea is like always have people on the deck you know you gotta have people on deck that's why we're always interviewing and we never think about what we lose we're always thinking about like gaining the extra person but you lose your culture like we're it we're responsible for the culture and it all starts with hiring right one but one person can ruin everybody because nobody wants to show up everybody's in a bad mood and it's it's crazy it's crazy but but we don't think like that we think oh we just need to they'll add some sales right right that's so true yeah no never again never ever ever like for example that that that person i i can't remember what she did with me but i mean i'd say she was probably what a 12 to 15 000 a month yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. Me, you know, mediocre. Yeah. So what less than 200 K a year in production? What does that generate? Right. 20 grand. Right. Right. And the headaches. Let's say, let's say it generates 20%. So, you know, 40 grand. Is it worth 40,000 of revenue for that? No way. No, no way. No, it's 20 grand. You know, it's like, what? Yeah, she was argumentative. And you're right about the culture. My office manager, who you know, Craig, you know, she's 74 years old, been with, you know, the company forever. And I, the thought that I allowed that around, yeah, that it was a bad decision. Very bad. Thankfully, I think it didn't last very long. I mean, I don't even think it was six months. I don't think it lasted very long. But lost money, lost a deposit, lots of arguments, lots of how come you can't get here on time. And then to find out my book was being used. Yeah. And we always think about hiring the person that's licensed. but it's like, dude, if you bring in the right person that's unlicensed, they're going to amplify all the licensed people. Like it's going to raise your agency to the level that it needs to be rather than even if they don't have a license. Yeah. It seemed like I was saving money because I wasn't going to have to spend that time getting somebody licensed. But you know, my, my, my, my current sales manager just hit his 90 day mark today actually. and you know he i signed him up he was licensed in one week you know i was doing these other you know services where it was a two-week thing and you know it's you get somebody who's ready um and smart and wanting the opportunity he was licensed in one week and started selling the very next week well actually two weeks because of the all the binding authority that they have to do, but, um, yeah. Anyway, so the money I thought I was saving, it's not even true for an unlicensed person because they could really be up and running in, in one to two weeks, um, depending on how quickly they can get through the company's training. Right. I think every, everything that we do, like if we look through the lens of everything I'm doing, I'm is, is some sort of investment in my business, right? Like I'm either investing time or investing money. Like when we're talking marketing we're investing money usually right like or you can invest time by going to some kind of networking thing which people get all cuckoo about and think that it's awesome and but i don't know that that's a scalable you know if you like going into networking things awesome great that's that's cool go do it but you know it's time yeah time is is that time worth that right like and so so to save time we cut a shortcut bring somebody on even against a recommendation which i've done too i mean i've done the exact same thing right oh yeah um and oh no they what do they know i know how to manage this it's like whatever yeah that's all ego right so yeah so we bring it so we bring them on and that time that we waste and that money that that it costs us to buy that person leaves that there doesn't work out anyway you know it's like it's so expensive so expensive and then the headache. Like we are trading our time in our business in order to get a return on it and hopefully ultimately create a situation where we don't have to be in the business. Right. And that's the opposite. Right. That brings us more into the business, even though it's like kryptonite, we don't want to be there. Yeah. I haven't had one of those in a while. Good. It might have been that one. Yeah. Let's go to the beginning. Let's go to the beginning. What got you into the insurance business? Was it a thing that you wanted when you were young? No. Born to be an insurance student. The funny thing is I was born to be an insurance student, but I didn't know that when I got into the business. It is my blood. I know that, but I got into the business because I answered answered an ad. I was an office manager for a water softener company and I and then I wanted to make more money. So I was like, hey, can I do sales too? So I was kind of doing both. And then I added I answered an ad for an insurance agent trainee. Can I say the company or no? Not if it has company. Not if it has hands. No. Yes. Then yes. It's a country financial. some people call it country insurance but it's country and country financial and it was an insurance trainee position and i was like oh so an admin that's what i thought an insurance agent was because my only experience with insurance was them being kind of order takers i i need insurance tell me where to sign and and there wasn't you know i so that's kind of what i thought it was i i definitely did not realize that it was sales and that there was um advisory responsibilities. So I got hired and I got like really great training, really, really great training. They have kind of a, their model is, you know, everybody's in one office and then there's an office manager that would go out with me on appointments. I would do home appointments. And really, literally my life insurance sales is still from that training. My life insurance sales presentation is from that training that I got. I learned insurance inside and out. They paid to get me licensed. It was really, really great for somebody just getting in. And then I understood the sales aspect and I understood the income opportunities. And so then I was all in. And I worked for them for eight years, I think. And there's no, you don't own the book. You don't, you know, you're, you're, you're really an employee. You really are. I think I even got some employee benefits while I was there. And then I moved back home to Tucson. This was, I was in Washington State at the time. I moved back home to Tucson and my sister worked for the agency that I bought now. Oh, cool. Yeah. And so then it was like, so I feel like I got really, really great training in the in the beginning and then was able to turn that into the business opportunity available here That super that it that that is the best way to get into this is to work as an employee for an agency, get the training where you don't have to wear all the hats and then become the owner so that you're you understand that hat already. Now you're wearing a new hat and it's not too much. Oh, for sure. It would have been pretty overwhelming because the training when I came here was was not as extensive for sure. You know, so I'm glad that I do that kind of stuff. And I had some business background. My major is in accounting. So I have some, but not but this this was a whole new thing. And I was able to learn kind of learn that without also trying to understand what comp and collision was. That would have been that it would have been hard. Right. Right. Yeah, because the carriers pretty much provide you the this is what's on a policy. They don't teach you the business. They don't teach you the sales. They try to teach you the sales, but it's from non-sales people. So you can imagine how effective that is. Hey, I'm going to teach you how to drive, drive a spaceship. Never been in one, but I'm going to teach you how to drive. Right. For sure. Well, yeah, 100 percent. That's exactly right. So I was, I'm, yeah, I'm thankful for that. I, a lot of the things I say, I am still pulling from that original training that I had. That's really good. So you had to have a win early, right? And that got you fired up about it. What was the first win? Was it the first sale? What, what, what really made you so excited about insurance, what you were in? Um, that is a good question. Yeah, I did. It's funny. It was mostly on life insurance sales, which I, I mean, I still write life insurance, But it's definitely not my not my focus. But, yeah, I had I bought mortgage leads and would call on them and then go out to people's homes at six o'clock, seven o'clock at night and meet with them. And I met with my very first appointment was a married couple. They were maybe 60. No, I think they were like closer to 70s and and not very healthy, but desperately needed and wanted life insurance and I bought it. And it was really expensive. I mean, gosh, I want to say their premium was six or seven hundred dollars a month combined for the two of them. And I think I don't remember what product I sold them. But anyway, it was a very nice sale. So in it with with the company that I was with, most of my my bonuses and higher commission opportunities were tied to life insurance sales. So, you know, similar. You got to do the PNC. But if you really want to maximize it, you've got to have the life insurance sales. So I was like, oh, well, this is easy. If I'm selling life insurance at six, $700 a month, like I'm going to be done with my annual goal. You know, so I had some success in the beginning and then later on realized, well, no, usually people spend 30 or $40 a month. Right. It's not seven or 800 or 700. That's crazy. Yeah. So that was kind of that was kind of it said. And then from there, I so really my my model was I would buy the mortgage. I didn't buy any PNC leads. I'd buy the mortgage lead and then I'd cross sell the auto and home. And that's, and so I wrote all of that with those folks. It was a great, you know, great sale. And I was energized and ready and kept going. That's like the opposite. I know. What year was that? I would do that today, yeah. What year was it? It was 2008. So there's no Facebook, right? Facebook just started or, I mean, nobody's really heard of it. It's probably still MySpace at this point. Yeah. And not really internet leads, right? So what leads, like you get these leads that are on paper or some list and then you just call them. So when people answer the phone back then. I know. Yeah. I would call and they would answer every time. Every time. I so anytime somebody bought a home or refinanced a home, this company would mail them after they closed saying, hey, are you interested in mortgage protection? The bank doesn't pay off the loan. So if you want something to pay off the loan, if something happens, fill this little form out and they would write their name, their phone number and maybe their address. Maybe I got their date of birth. I can't remember. And then they would mail it back. And then I would get an email with a copy of that lead and I would call them and say, hey, I know you just closed on the home. You were interested in mortgage protection. We want to make sure that we can pay off the loan if anything were to happen to you so that your family can stay in the home. Just need about 15, 20 minutes with you. You know, when can I come out? and then I'd go out and I'd do the good, better, best presentation, which I still use where I would show them term. I did whole life back then and then a mixture, a split of term and full life. And they'd always buy the term and whole life. But most of the time they would buy the middle one. And then I'd wait till I got them through underwriting because our PNC rates were actually not very, very great. so I would get them through underwriting. Oh, so it was good practice. Yeah, yeah. I would have to, I need to secure the life insurance. For the future. That needs to be done before I gave them the price. Yeah, before I would give them the price on the auto and home because sometimes if you gave them that, then they would start thinking, well, maybe their life insurance is too high as well. So I would finish the life insurance and then I would be like, hey, now that we've got that taken care of here, you know, here's the auto and home. How does that look? And, you know, I had a, I don't know, 20 minutes of writing that look at you you knew all your all your funnel metrics i i did but it's so funny to call almost 100 contact rate then how many you know then some percentage you'd get of appointments and then from the appointments you knew what you'd sell and then from what you sold you knew what you'd get in pnc you're absolutely right but i didn't know that like I knew it, but I didn't have it categorized like how you just said it. And I knew that if I bought more leads, my sales would go up. But I didn't necessarily put it in my brain like how you just said it. And I remember watching you guys when I was thinking about becoming a dudette. I remember watching you guys on the onboarding videos that you guys have on there. And I remember it just all clicking like, oh, that's what this is. because it's, you need to be able to identify it because how, yeah, yeah. How can you, how can you watch it? And if you don't identify it and, and yeah, you're absolutely right. It all clicked once you guys were able to identify it for me. I think the two easiest ways with the life insurance, it's so hard to just go in blind, right? Like, like you don't know their needs. You, you need to have a long conversation to find it out. But like, A, if they have a mortgage, mortgage protection. Like that's fills a giant need. And that's an easy sale because they probably have somebody, they probably don't want to lose the house if they ever die, you know? So that, and if they have kids, like it's a no brainer, like it's a easy conversation to have, to explain, to paint a picture of what it would be like in this situation. And it's easily avoidable. Absolutely. I, I should sell more life insurance. I should. You're right. You're, you're absolutely right and we do we do it just maybe not at the level because you're right it's if they have a mortgage if they have kids why don't they have life insurance those are the two paths that i would go down those are the only two because i like like like you can create the funnel from that right you go into it blind it's like just call everybody and ask everybody and then ask them again and ask them again it's like oh like then you're the agency that's that's annoying right and then they're just going to go shopping. But like those two needs are very, are such an easy conversation to, to help them. And yeah, I don't know. With each, with each desired result, there's some level of activity that you can assign a measurement to, right? Eventually. So like if, if you know, okay, Jason, you have to sell life insurance now. The first thing you're going to do is go, okay, great. Let me figure out what percent of the people we ask actually say yes to an appointment. Then what percent of that boom, boom, boom, you get your numbers. And now all you got to do is push people through it. Right. A hundred percent. Yep. And you'd want to make sure that a different way of thinking, but that's how every business works. Every single business, every McDonald's works that way. Right. It's like, okay, we know if I have, if, if I have this many people come through the door, it's going to yield this many Big Macs and this many fries and this many Cokes, boom. And this is our lifetime value of that person that walked through the door. Like there's a way to monetize all. The only missing piece is they have to say the same thing every time. Otherwise you will like, you're all over the place. So in each part of that funnel, you have to have some sort of stability on what you say so that you can, yeah. Otherwise you're not going to get the same metrics every time. This month's going to be good. That month's going to be bad, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny that you mentioned McDonald's, Craig. Again, I watch other businesses' sales processes and either make fun of it or respect it. McDonald's, have you seen their app that they have? Yes. Yeah? Yeah. I have an eight-year-old, and she would live at McDonald's if I let her. Yeah. Same with my kids. when I was pregnant my child now she eats it all the time but anyway they say it's real chicken now it's not like when I was a kid when it was pink slime it was cat but you leave it out and three years later it looks the same and I've left it out for months no mold no rot it's so bad but they have an app now So kind of what you were saying, Craig, about, you know, being able to expect certain results. They now have an app. So now they're able to actually get personalized data on what me, my age, my demographic, my zip code. And they've made it super easy and like really inviting because it's a reward system. So if I use if I order through the app, which means I'm not talking to an employee, I'm clicking, you know, I'm clicking an app to order. and they've made it really easy because my daughter gets the same thing every time. I'm literally just clicking reorder and I can pay on the app and I'm literally just driving through and then I'm getting rewards that gives me free stuff all the time, like free Happy Meals or free whatever. So they're really like they know me now. They know how I'm going to be there. They know what I'm going to order. They know what deals to send me that will get me to go. It's I respect. And you know what's amazing is they figured out like where you are right like they know Everybody's on their cell phone. So this is the source of traffic. So for them virtually the cell phone is the mall Right, and you're walking through your cell phone and you're like, oh McDonald's oh and then you say it you're like, oh, I have the McDonald's app and then your daughter's McDonald's Let's get McDonald's. I want McDonald's. And then all of a sudden it's off to the races just because they put that little icon on your phone. Everything about McDonald's is an amazing business case. They are, I would say, probably not the worst fast food. Well, they're definitely not the top end fast food, right? But they are the most successful restaurant in the history of history. Like they are. So all the business practices to take a subpar product and create the most successful restaurant in the planet. A burger stand. Yeah, which is amazing. So how did they do that? And it's through all these things. And I love the Happy Meal. The Happy Meal is genius, right? The kids love the Happy Meal. They want to go there. They want the toy. They want to feel happy. My kids don't even care about eating the food. They just want the Happy Meal. They want the box. They call them boxes. It's a little two-cent toy that is probably made out of lead from China. Exactly. That they put in their mouth. But now they just came out with the adult Happy Meal, and it's going off the shelves. I even heard that some of the toys are selling for like $300,000 on eBay. Shut up. Dude, it's bananas. What do you get? What kind of toys? Just old school. Dirt's fail kids? It's their old school Remember the Oh my gosh, the clown And the little purple guy Hamburglar It's those people There's a nostalgia And Oscar the Grouch No, that's I know, I'm just kidding Making sure you're on your toes You know, I'm going to go out on a limb here And it's a total shift of subjects but I think Electric Company was better than Sesame Street. Oh, that's... I was thinking about Electric Company the whole time during Sesame Street. I would say that the people have spoken. Big Bird? Snuffleupagus? Yeah, just go to the YouTube channel and post in the comments which you prefer, Electric Company or Sesame Street. Maria, we've never seen diversity like that until Sesame Street in the 80s. The best. I still like Sesame Street. My kids don't. I try to get them to watch it. It's because Oscar is so mean. He's the best character. Wouldn't you be mean if you lived in the trash can? I guess so. Horrible. It's not even a dumpster. It's just a regular round metal trash can. What did his parents do? Yeah, he's a product. Did they throw him out? Poor guy. They didn't live in a dumpster. They threw him in the dumpster. Probably. That he grew up. Probably mentally challenged. All right. All right. Let's get back to some insurance. This is good, though. This is what we tell our salespeople. Anytime you talk about insurance, make sure that you don't talk about insurance on the quote. So on the insurance show, make sure you don't talk about insurance. Otherwise, you're going to bore everyone. What do you talk about? Well, let's talk about the team. I'm, I'm, so we started off with the team. Let's, let's bring it back to that. What, what did your team look like when you started and what does it look like now? And what are all the roles within your agency? When I first started, I, gosh, I was by myself for, oh, I don't know, like maybe three years, I'm thinking. And then I hired my first person and she was part-time and I was terrified because I didn't think I could afford her. And and then I understood that her taking on some roles would increase revenue. And I was able to kind of see that. So that was when I, you know, year three or so I had a part time person. And then when I bought this agency, I had one customer service manager and that was it. It was me and one other person. And we didn't have clearly defined roles. I sold I answered the phone she sold she answered the phone Whatever business came it was the business that came And I wasn really focused on numbers It was just like you know we handheld our customers We did everything for them. We just a lot of follow up, a lot of babysitting. And then fast forward to, you know, maybe the last. Let's say I probably started transforming that maybe like the last. seven or eight years of understanding that some of that babysitting needs to go. And we kind of started training people and putting people on automatic drafts and, you know, that whole thing. And that changed the game completely. So now I have one sales manager. I have one customer service manager. And then I have a part-time customer service manager. And then I consider my telemarketer a part of my team as well because I was trying to have two sales managers and I kept hiring three and the attempts of getting two and then two would quit. I just kept going back to one. I just kept going back to one. So then when I became a dudette, I said, okay, what if I just feed my sales manager and stop looking for the second one, which I will get the second one. It's just not as as um necessary because we're doing what we're doing well with just the one so i have um yeah so that's that's my um that's my my team now and we don't do any hand holding and we teach people how to use the app and we just recently um said our door is locked now we actually got a crazy person calling our office and threatening our lives um yeah it was not even a customer oh In fact, it was a lead that our telemarketer was calling. The person had requested a quote, and she called, and he left us a voicemail saying he was going to do all these horrible things to us. So that was perfect for me. It was crazy. Yeah, you know, with the police, we recorded it and everything, and he says he didn't mean it. But we were, yeah. He had a bad day. Yeah, he was young. He doesn't even live here. He lives in Phoenix. So it seems like you could get him, you know, he owes you. I know. That's good. Cause the police officer said I had my choice of pressing charges or not. And I go, uh, you know, if I'm what you're assessing of him, I think it's okay. Maybe I should be like, Hey, right. You know, right with us and then do it. Yeah. Call him. Hey, look, I decided not to press charges, but here's the deal. The funny thing is he wouldn't qualify. when I looked when I got the call I look at the number I look at the lead DUI and what about some nasty gin some what some nasty gin that's what the sales oh okay I don't know that one I understand yeah exactly yeah that's a good point I should have done that anyway they call the nasty I got to write them in the nasty that's what they call that's funny yeah we don't write very many with them. You get credit. Yeah? Yeah, points. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. Well, maybe we'll stop turning them away. Or maybe it's from Rondel. I don't know. Really? Or maybe I'm being put together. Maybe they don't get anything. I didn't know that they did. Maybe I need to pay more attention. Well, but yeah, it is through that brokerage site. So maybe you might be right. I know you get something, some kind of credit. Oh, okay. I'll have to look into that. Well, anyway, we're happy to not deal with that person. And it was just kind of the push I needed to be like, we're going to lock our doors. I sent out an email to everybody. You got to call us or text us first. And we're really trying to get people to just do things over the phone anyway. And so it was kind of a nice little transition to do that. So love it. Culture. Culture. We touched on this a little bit, right? Like where we bring in somebody and perhaps they have way too much makeup apparatus on their desk. And then it affects the culture, right? Because they're spending all their time playing Barbie instead of or Ken. and they're spending all their time doing these things instead of actually doing the activity that we want to hold them accountable for and that could be a culture buster right so what have you done to create a great culture there in your agency with with who you have and and what kind of leadership are you putting in well being and I'm not just saying this um being a dudette really helped that because I didn't have clear and consistent processes for other people to follow. Like I knew what needed to be done. I could jump in and I could do it. It's a mixture of those. Daily drills. Actually, that's a good point. Daily drills is spectacular because I am not good at daily meetings. I don't enjoy it at all. And having the daily. Nobody does. Yeah, it's a it's it's a chore. And so having and in fact, I had I'm there's like three stories wrapped up in this, but I had my sales manager's close ratio dip down. Daily drills was able to help me in speaking with Miguel and having those consistent processes. I was able to really with no work at all, identify what was affecting the close ratio, which was asking for the sale was not was, you know, was not being done. And so having that training to be able to identify the problem, fix the problem. And then, of course, we had a massive sales day yesterday just by quickly being able to identify it. So prior to being a dudette, I didn't have those clear, consistent practices. So when things weren't working, I didn't know where to work to look. I would be like, oh, it's the leads. Oh, it's well, maybe it's, you know, because it's holiday season. It would be all these other things. And because I wasn't confident in the process, I would listen to the feedback from my LSP and I and I would start kind of justifying what they were saying. Well, yeah, I mean, that person was busy. They were at work. And, you know, so so now I'm super confident in the process. I know it works. I know what should what to expect from the process. So if I have an LSP saying these leads aren't good, well, no, that's not true. I know that for a fact. And let's figure out what's actually not working so we can identify it really quick and fix it. And so that, yeah, I didn't have that before. I have it now. And it makes it a lot easier. It makes it less of an emotional response. It's a data-driven response. You know, here's these calls that I pulled. You didn't ask for the sale. That's why you didn't get it. So let's add this line to your remaining call. Magically, you get it. I love it. Yeah, so it's not like a fight. It's more of like coaching. It doesn't matter. Like, they're going to say what they're going to say. Kind of like telemarketers are always going to say, I got lots of voicemails and hangups or disconnected numbers, right? Yeah, we know. That's why you have a job, right? Right. So if you didn't get that, then we wouldn't need you. So it's good that that's happening, right? Like that's, and I mean, I don't say that to them, but that's the, you know, that's the thing. And so it's the same with the producers. Everybody just wants to not be in trouble, right? Because that's pain. They want to avoid the trouble, but they also don't want to do any work. They want to do as little amount of work as possible. That's just humans, right? I mean, it's same thing here. We're business owners. We work hard, but we work hard to figure out how not to work and get paid the most for doing that Like that's our thing. That's the entrepreneur. So with with the producers you take away All of that subjectivity by saying like this is the expectation you got to do these things We're gonna listen to it. You didn't do it. You didn't do this thing It's not I like you or don't like you or you're bad or good. It's just this didn't happen and it's your job Right. So instead of saying you, it's this. And then it's, you know, that's it. It's so it's so true. It takes away that. And it's crazy because I remember hearing an agent say this years ago. You have to use data. You have to use data. Data doesn't lie. Data doesn't have emotion. And I didn't fully grasp. I didn't fully grasp it. And I would have these conversations with LSPs that ended up both of us feeling bad at the end of it. this was not a good conversation. Right. And, and, and that's emotional. Yeah. It's a, if somebody called me and said, Hey, Rhiannon, you're, you're not getting sales. I'm going to take that personally. Right. You know, you're not trying hard enough. Right. Exactly. They always think they're trying hard enough. Right. Like that's. Because they want it. They want it. So it's like, I am, I'm working as fast as I can. I'm doing as fast as I can. Versus the conversation, not being that way. The conversation being these last three calls, you missed this step of the sales process. So let's get back to the basics and then we'll get your close ratio back up to where it needs to be. Yeah, I love that because you could tie, like you said, they want it, right? Like as long as we can identify this person wants it and then you can convince them that you have the keys to the car and that you know the ways, like you know the path, right? If you know the path to get there, then then you could tie it to their thing right like I want to get it why do you want to get it because I want to make a bunch of money why do you want to make a bunch of money because I want to buy a house okay great so if if I show you all of the things that you need to do on a daily basis where you don't even have to think that that will then allow you to buy that house are you all in yes perfect so I'm going to hold you accountable to these things right this this this you're going to have to do the script you're going to make this money to house you need this talk time If you do these things, you will have the house. Are we in? Yes. Great. So when you don't do these things, we're going to have a conversation and it's going to be about these things not being met. And then the action plan of what happens next, the consequences of not getting that. Is that fair? Yes. Great. Now, when you have that conversation, it's not painful, right? It's just, hey, look, this is the situation. Maybe you don't want to do this. Jason is a master at the foist, right? or not the voice. I guess it's not a voice. It's just the talking them into quitting. Yeah. I like that way because I want them to realize it's like, it's not that we don't want you. It's that it's the wrong fit and it's not working for you. And that's the reason why you're not producing the kind of output we want. You're not following the stuff, not because what we're doing is wrong. Cause that's kind of how it's, how it's framed. It's because you don't like it. Like you don't want to do it. You're not in it. You're never going to, you don't care. Like, and if that's the case, then find something that you truly love so that you're, that you're super successful at what you're doing. And if you, you know, I'll, I'll help you if you want me to help you. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Like it should be, they wait. Like, I mean, I get up in the morning and I'm excited for the day because we're going to do things. We're going to like, I'm going to be on the podcast with Rhianna today, you know, or whatever the thing is. It's like, yes, Like I'm all stoked. Right. But the day that I'm not that I'm not going to do that. Right. I don't want to do it if it's not enjoyable. Right. And passionate. Love it. I want to know how do you recruit and then how do you train them into success in your agency? I use the company has a ongoing I don't it's fairly new, but it's a where they're sending me resumes and they're they're out searching for resumes and then sending them to me. So I probably get I mean, it's really low volume, maybe one resume a week or something like that. So that I mean, that's that's pretty much that's pretty much it. That's all I that's all I do. I used to use team hires. They have boot camp, which is a, you know, to get them licensed. And I'm sure it works for some people. It did not work for me. It was it's too long. I just want I only want people to get personal lines and I want them licensed in a week. And boot camp is PNC, Property and Casualty, and it's a two week program. And I really feel like even with PNC, it's a one week study. It's one week's worth of study materials. 100% yeah so I just do Kaplan I think is what I do and it's great and it's interactive you know whatever their top tier is where you can have the online class the live class which is super important to take right before they take the test and it's literally the same did you catch it I did catch it and then let it go I wasn't oh yeah fly I'm not a big fly in the hand guy. Really? Oh, I love it. It's my favorite. In the drinking days, I probably would have grabbed it and smushed it in my hand. I'll be impressed when you do it with chopsticks. Yeah, chopsticks, Miyagi. Miyagi died, huh? Did he? Yeah, I think he did. I've only been doing that just my last hire. It worked perfectly. I'm like, why wasn't I doing this before? There's no reason to stretch it out that long. That's what I'll continue to do. One week. Yeah, one week. And we schedule, day one, we schedule your test. So, you know, you get in, you're starting that test on, or the study materials on Monday, and we're scheduling your test for the following Monday. I love that. I love the clarity. Yeah, it won't get done. Everything gets pushed back. Oh, I can do it later. Like, you need to, and, and, so two things I like about it. One is the clarity, right? You have the definitive date. You're doing it by this time, blah, blah, blah. Right. And then the other thing is you are setting a pace for your agency. We move fast. You're going to come in the first week. You're going to do this. You know, the second week you're going to do this. And if you start off with that, I mean, that gives them that instant win. Oh, my gosh. And then celebrate that. You just got your a very difficult test within a week. And, you know, yeah, celebrate it. And like, that's their win. That's a huge win. absolutely and a little trick that I learned with the testing because they're not as bad as what they were you know during the shutdown and stuff but there are it can be difficult to get the date you want so you just take whatever the closest date is and then people cancel their tests so if you know for example this um this last hire that I had we couldn't get him in on that following Monday or Tuesday it was like you know Saturday was the first one so we took it and then I just looked as it got closer and closer because you have to get you have to cancel within a certain time period maybe three days so three days prior to the date you want it you just go in first thing in the morning and you'll be there yeah it's there because somebody's canceled we got cold now it won't now it won't be because you just gave away the big secret that's true don't do that if you're in tucson that's only for me and craig it doesn't work in arizona so you can do that in california Yeah. Anywhere else. You touched on this earlier from your, and I even did so much as to write it down because it was this big of a thing. So you brought up the training and the onboarding that they had a country at your first place. And it so interesting because you know that was much longer ago than starting at your current place But you didn really bring up anything about the training at the current place right Because it just doesn stick out Like I think that solid training when you're onboarded is so vital, right? For a very long time in my agency, they'd come on and it was like a cluster F from the day they walked in, right? Like no processes. Who knows? Go answer the phone. you know, just a mess, hot mess. And, and like the difference, like if you went, if I were to go back to one of those people who obviously no longer work here from 10 years ago and say, what was it like you're onboarding? They probably wouldn't even remember working here, right? Because it was nothing spectacular. And so talk about that and how it's played a role in how you onboard people that you bring on and so on and so forth. Yeah. No, I, I agree with everything that you just said and it's not something that I was always good with because I don't like it. I'm just like, I'll do it myself. I mean, that's literally who I am as a person. I'll do it myself. You know, and I've showed this to you once and twice. The third time you're asking too much for me to ask, you know, show you again. That's literally, you know, my natural state. But I've learned that they do need that training. And there's LSPs I've had in the past that had I invested in that training with them, they could have done a better job. So I've learned that. So yeah, there's a ton of training. They got to get through the training with the company just to have permission to bind. And then I just do one-on-one training with them until they get, I look at their close ratio. The first step is learning the quoting system. The second step is getting your close close ratio to an acceptable level, which is at least 20%. And so we're one on one until you're doing that. And I do daily drills. I mean, it's, it's wonderful. It's like a way to for them to start the day and be energized to be hearing it's super important for a new LSP to hear other people having success and that this isn't just this job that that nobody can do that nobody can close and because you can kind of get in your own head so it's super important for them to hear other people that are like no actually you can do it you just need to do this this and this so i do that and then i still we have a pretty cool system i don't know if you if you guys use it the sales diagnostic tool as SPD sales performance diagnostic. That's really, really cool. And that has saved me a ton of time because I do still listen and I live listen a lot. I'll just have it on while I'm working so I can hear the calls. But the diagnostic tool is really cool because it gives me the analytics of did they ask for the sale? So I use that a lot to kind of monitor, you know, what, how many times are they bundling? How many times are they asking for the sale or offering using the word discounts? You know, all those things that are kind of important. It's, it's really helped me to be able to identify. What is that? It's I it's SPD. I believe it spells sales performance diagnostic tool. If you go into, Oh, it's, it's, it's our carriers thing. Yeah. It's our carriers. Yeah. It's specific. Yeah. So if you have AAV. Never mind. All right. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Just joking, Carrier. No, I do want to check that out. It's cool. It's really, really cool. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Yeah, and because I do follow the pyramid. And so there's, you know, you've got to go to like three different reports to get, you know, the top time and the quotes and all that kind of stuff. So with this tool, I still have to do that for the pyramid. But with this tool, it's all in one place. I can put what their goal is. And I don't have to do any math. It tells me where they're at, if they're on track. But the biggest part is I don't have to listen to every single phone call. It kind of organizes it for me. Does the pyramid have the sphinx on it? It does not. Ah, bummer. So what are you doing for marketing? That's what I'm missing. um so i do i i still do direct mail we still actually have success with with direct mail with mailing the quotes um not mailing any letters but mailing the actual home quote at their renewal we do that but really i just buy leads a ton of leads from ever quote and um that's where we get 90 of our sales let me ask you this one besides listening to this podcast what do you do to keep yourself motivated? Well, I really, so I told you all the things I don't like to do, but what I really, really, really, really like doing is I like paying bonuses and commissions. I've always been like that. Like when I was starting out, that's what motivated me, you know? And so I what motivates me is having my sales manager be on pace to hit a nice bonus. And so when I and I convey that, you know, to him, like this is my this is my goal for you is to receive this, you know, at the end of the month. I have weekly bonuses and I have monthly bonuses. And so that I really, truly am motivated that by that. I love doing payroll at the end of the month and giving me money. What are some of the biggest challenges? As we're going into this post-COVID world of insurance and there's a lot of changes in the insurance industry, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges that are going to be affecting our agencies? I think it's staffing. at least for me, it's always been my challenge and I don't see it changing. I do want to add another LSP. And when I think about the time and energy, you know, it takes to put in, to get somebody up to the pace that we want here, it's daunting to me. So that's going to be my challenge. I pay a lot. I coach, I train, I do all of those things. So it seems like I should be able to find, you know, you know, somebody that would want that opportunity. But it seems like staffing will be will always be my problem getting somebody that I feel like I show them feel like I should I even have them come in and shadow feel like I show them And then once they actually get in and see, you know, what the job is, you know, I'm not keeping them. So that's going to be my challenge. Yeah. How about the number one thing you'd recommend to somebody that's coming in? Somebody's crazy enough to finish high school or graduate from college, whatever, and they go, I want to go into insurance. What would you tell that person besides run the other direction? I know, right? I mean, I'm not just saying this. I would say become a dude or a dudette. This was like I said, it was just learning kind of this process and putting it written down like on paper, not, you know, figuratively changed the game for me. If I had done this years ago, I a lot of the problems that I've had, I wouldn't I wouldn't have had. my telemarketer is never sick. She doesn't miss work. She doesn't quit. She has the hardest job out of all of us. And she's here every day. And she's accountable to herself. And then not only do I have a telemarketer, I have a telemarketing manager that if she's there's times that I'm happy with my telemarketers numbers, but the manager is not. And she's like, hey, this is what we're going to work on and then all of a sudden we're getting a couple extra transfers a day that is not something that I would be able to go out and hire on my own um and get and I really consider them um an employee um we if we have you know we call them ghost prospects where they're like yeah just call me on Wednesday and you know and then we can never reach them we send them back and imagine the telemarketer gets them on the phone and and you know they we really work interactively like that. And I didn't have that before. So I had thousands of leads just not being worked because I, you know, I, I didn't have a process. I didn't have somebody that was calling on them consistently. And by having that telemarketer who is literally my best employee, you know, every single day making those calls I'm not wasting leads. And we, and I'm feeding my, my LSP. So even if my LSP wanted to be lazy, they can't because marketer is saying, Hey, got a lead for you. And, um, so yeah, that, that would be my, that would be my advice. It's so interesting because like you can go into a room full of agents and, and, and there could be this group sitting there and, you know, inevitably some group of people will be complaining about their salespeople not do anything or not trying hard enough or not doing any work. And then, and then you could say, what are you, what kind of opportunities are you providing for? Oh no, they just have to hop on the phone and right. And it's like, that won't work. I mean, maybe that worked for us when we were learning. Right. But we're also became the owners. Like these people aren't going to become the owners likely. And it's a shitty job. Like that's a tough job to quote all day, right? So putting them in a position where they can't be lazy, I love that. I'm going to tell Envy to make that a quote, what you said, because it's true, right? If they can't be lazy because you're giving them too much opportunity, then they have to be successful, right? I mean, there's no other way. Because if they're not, then you're like, okay, look, I mean, you're over here where I'm just lobbing underhands over home plate. You should be knocking them out of the park all day long. Right. And as a business owner, you're supposed to be eliminating any of the roadblocks in your agency. Not just saying, well, you deal with it. Like, we need to totally take away all the threats of the agency. And what other industry and what business do they just say, hey, bring me a whole bunch of people? You know? Like, nobody does that. Yeah. Except scammy businesses. Bring me your grandma and your family. And it's like, no, what is this, Amway? Come on. Yeah. No offense. damn way. I'm sure you have great shampoo or something. Well, if you're at the top of the pyramid, you're doing well. Yes, you are. You got a pink Cadillac. So true. Yeah, I got rid of a lot of the frustration. I would just, you know, sales would be down and I'd see all these unworked quotes and it just, yeah. I don't have that problem now. Right. The leads are work. There was an employee that worked here she always gave me a hard hard time and like we kind of let her go um well we kind of let her go it was one of those conversations you know kind of well she let herself go but it was like it was time um yeah we had the we had the conversation and so she left and then she called back like six months later and wanted her position back and and i said we weren't hiring at that time. We weren't, we aren't hiring you. Right. Right. So, so she, she, so I, I had another agent down the street that I knew that he wanted and some sales agent at his agency. So I'm like this, this lady, she's good, but you know, she's a little bit of a, she's a little hard, hard headed and hard to deal with. But so he hired her and within at the interview, she was going off about because she would always give us a hard time with with the meetings and the sales process, like all the stuff like she just wanted to do it her way. And then she in that interview, she was raving about how the sales process was so good here. And she didn't realize what she had until she left and just like crazy yeah crazy all the stuff all the stuff that she was giving us a headache about she was singing the praises of she didn't work out of his office there's a theme here LNC office to office yes I wanted to bookend this whole conversation with that yeah it is it is it is it's almost like your own lead magnet of for hires right like you're able to attract people based off of giving them the opportunity it's it's retains your your hires so now you're saving money because you don't have that turnover all because you spent the money to make it happen it's like moving it over right the money is not emotional right it just does It's thanked. It's going to go to the place that's going to make it move the fastest. It's true. And I feel like when people are, when I am hiring, I'm able to say that, you know, there's no cold calling. Because a lot of times, you know, that's what they're expecting. This is a sales, anytime you're hearing the word sales and commission, you know, that's kind of an expectation of what am I going to have to do, you know. And so I'm able to kind of set my agency apart a little bit and say that we have a full-time telemarketer that does all of that. Your expectation is to know the quoting system to quote accurately and to close at a certain level. That's the expectation. Quote 10 households. Yeah. Oh, I'm 8. I know. Yeah, 8 to 8. 8 to 10. Yeah. I like to say 10 because then I get 8. Right. Yeah. Right. But I do expect it every day. not no no missed days yeah 100 yeah 10 is where the the wheels start falling off the car those quotes get shady shady and short yep yeah well really she's got the distance she went beyond the distance we went into overtime we're in ot right now we are in ot no thank you we appreciate You brought some serious gold today. I think everybody can relate to especially some of those things that we spoke about at the beginning. And we totally missed the conversation of the sales guy that we were talking about at the beginning. We're going to have to do a part of the windows. The windows. You know what? I was trying to remember how I would tie that into it, so it doesn't matter because we didn't talk about that. No. We'll do a part de. Next time. We'll do a part de. Yeah. Yeah. So if you want Rhianna to come back on this show, you better message us. Text Craig at 520. At 714. Now you have three of Jason's cell phone digits. 714. And I'll even throw a bonus in. At the very beginning, it's a one. easy to find prior to yeah plus one for the country code all right well i am tuckered out now thank you yeah thank you this is awesome yeah what a good time and uh we will see you soon i'll see you tomorrow yeah yes all right okay bye