More, Everything, Forever With Adam Becker

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I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side. A happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWA percent on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And we got the Black Effect marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect podcast festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself. Okay. Pull up. Calls on media. Hello and welcome to Better Off Line. Welcome to Better Off Line. I'm Michael Easter. I'm Michael Easter. I'm Michael Easter. I'm Michael Easter. And welcome to Better Off Line. I'm your host, Ed Zitron. As ever, go to the episode notes to sign up to the newsletter. Please do the premium metal. Make me money. Buy a fuck data centers t-shirt or join one of the assorted communities. If you ever want to fall further into the larger Zitron verse, but today we're joined by the author of more. Everything forever. That's right. Journalist and astrophysicist Adam Becker. Adam, how you doing? I'm doing well, Ed. How are you? Going to your podcast, don't you? Yeah, I do. It's called Dreaming Against the Machine. And it just came out pretty recently. What's about? Well, it's it's like a more optimistic version of this podcast. It's OK. No, I like that. I like this. I want to hear about that. Tell me. Yeah. So, you know, I spent a lot of time when I was writing my book. More Everything Forever thinking about terrible people and their bad ideas about the future, and that made me want to think more about good ideas about the future and people who I actually like. And so the podcast is about, you know, trying to imagine what a realistic good future could look like. Yeah. Can you give me some examples? I don't know. I have no idea. Oh, OK. Yeah, no. Still working that one out. Yeah, still figuring that out. I mean, that's that's sort of the podcast is me thinking out loud about these things with different guests each week. So, yeah, I mean, it's certainly a future where we found a way to wrench power away from these tech billionaires. And it's not a future that involves like, you know, space colonization and super intelligent AI. But more than that, I still figure in that out. That's that's what the podcast is for. Yeah, I do get a good amount of people who email and are like, yeah, well, why don't you talk about more positive things on the show? A, it's tough to find them. But B also, sometimes when I do it, people get mad at me. Yeah, but I don't think that you miss the shill. I don't think you mind people being mad at you. I don't. But at the same time, it's like when I'm like, I mentioned this Nebula X1 projector thing I really like. It's quite expensive. It's like this insane thing in like a box as a projector. It's like the speakers you can plug in there, wireless, and it's beautiful. It works really well. I talked about that once and I have people email me saying, Ed, you're a shill, you're being a shill, you can't. And it's like, oh my Christ, do I have to hide everything? Because there's plenty I do. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, I feel like you get plenty. Yeah. But I feel like there are some really good things. Like I feel like if America was not under the gastocracy right now, we would be in a kind of golden era of solar. Like I have solar in my house in Vegas, barely paying electricity bill. It's kind of magic. It's kind of amazing. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, there's there's a lot of great technology and solar is a really good example. Like the solar technology has gotten really great. Battery technology has gotten really great. I think that these are wonderful things. And yeah, if we weren't subsidizing fossil fuels and actually thinking clearly about both what is the, you know, the cheapest and most effective sources of energy and what would be best for the climate and the planet. You know, I think it would be pretty clear that that we'd be going through an even faster energy transition than we are already. Wouldn't energy also be cheaper if we were mass solar? I'm sure someone's going to hate me for saying that. I think that's true. You know, I have to look at the numbers, but I mean, I solar is, I believe the cheapest source of energy at the moment. Yeah. It has been for a bit. What if instead we could just have natural gas everywhere, which is very cheap I'm hearing at the moment. Yeah, I mean, there's lots of it. Nothing's happened to the supply. Everyone's fine. Yeah, everything's fine. Nothing is broken. And we're getting really tired of winning. Yeah, talking of thinking, though, we're talking just before we got on, like one of the most insane things I think I have heard a tech CEO say, and I say this is someone who's heard Alex Karp speak before, Mark Andreessen saying he doesn't have introspection. Yes, this was kind of my favorite thing that's happened recently. You know, right. For for values of favorite, where I mean like horrible and unhinged. But yeah, no, he he said that he doesn't introspect and that introspection was invented in Vienna 100 years ago by Sigmund Freud. And like, OK, what do you think that? I don't know. Hamlet was about. What do you? All right. What was Hamlet about? Hamlet was about a guy who cried a lot when his life was awesome. Same with Macbeth. Yeah, exactly. Like what does it mean? Someone I streamed drugs. But like, what does he think? Any just ruining Shakespeare life on air? Yeah, exactly. Like all art, like any any any form of art pretty much ever created by anyone at any point in history. Like, why does he believe this? I think, you know, he does seem like Mark Andreessen doesn't think he doesn't he doesn't introspect. But what's going on in that magical brain all the time? I'm not magical brain, the egg like brain that he has. The fuck it like the Dr. Robotnik. Yes. Yeah. It's so funny as well, because I'm constantly introspective to the point where I'm like tearing up my own theories and things that I've done and thought about again and again and again. It's one of the enjoyable things about being human. Yeah, exactly. I mean, one's ability to reflect. Yeah. That's kind of makes sense when you look at all the AI stuff, though. Yeah, I mean, I think that for someone like Andreessen, he's gotten so wealthy and so powerful, he's not used to hearing no and introspection from that perspective is just an opportunity to tell yourself no. And why would he ever do that to himself? But, you know, LLMs definitely never introspect. They're not really capable of it. Yeah. And, you know, we we we've got this chain of reasoning stuff that supposedly like introspection, but it's not. And I think that if you don't introspect, that's going to make it so much easier to be fooled into thinking that these things are thinking. Yeah. And also, I like the chain of thought reasoning because. If you think that's what thinking's like, you must not think so hard. Yeah, because it's just what is thinking? Well, every time I hear literally anything I think. What would they what do they mean by that? What am I? It's like every single thought you have is a Tucker Carlson monologue. What do they mean? Yes. What is that? Yes. What do you mean? How's my day? How's my day today? It's the afternoon. Is it like is it just the daytime? Do I care about nighttime now? Does this person care about me? Do they care about my family? What's going on here? Just like in this constant state of like confusion. Yeah. And then using way too much, way too much energy to just go. Yes, fine. Yeah. Yes, I'm all right. You know, yeah, keep yourself busy. It's just what I don't get is what I mean. I take that back. Yeah, I actually totally get this. But if you're that rich, you have so much more time to do so many more interesting things and think about them, for example. Yeah. You know, just like a book or like a song or at that price, the amount of money that he has, he could just be like, I wouldn't mind seeing, I don't know, public enemy. I bet I could just call all of them and pay them all to just do a concert in my living room. Don't think Mark Andrees is a big public enemy fan, but just for the sake of example. Right. Yeah. And it's very. It gets me back to this thought. I've had this whole time with the LLM era where it's like, this is just the digital dunce cap era. This is when we find out all the people who just have not been thinking the entire time, who just all they all they've been doing is just walk around going like money, money, money, growth. Yes. Is it like Facebook? Disney like, hey, it reminds me of Mark Zuckerberg. Give him a million dollars. Wait, he needs 10 million dollars. Give him 20 just in case someone else gives him 10. Just this constant state of like angry anxiety. Yeah. I mean, God, what was it? I saw this this LLM startup advertising somewhere online that was saying that they were, you know, going to do your intellectual labor for you and they were going to do your homework for you and stuff like that in school. And I'm like, do you know what intellectual labor is saying that you're going to do it for me? Because they were saying then you just get to reap the benefits of the intellectual labor. And I'm like, OK, saying that you're going to do it for me and then I get to reap the benefits is sort of like saying you have a robot that's going to do pull ups badly. And if I just watch it do pull ups badly, then I will somehow get stronger. Like that's just how it works. That's not how thinking works. Well, it kind of reminds me of this Andre Carpathian. You remember Andre Andre Carpathian is the co-founder, one of the many co-founders of OpenAI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he posted this thing the other day, he was like, yeah, spending hours working on like a private wiki for all of his research, not his research, but stuff he was like looking into strongly. And it's like and it's like, yeah, and then you can use an LLM to ask it questions. It's like, why? Like just just why? Yeah. Like I would get it if he was like to be clear, if he was saying I as a scientist, I'm collecting tons of data and I want to have it in a place I can poke at it. Fine. It didn't seem like he was suggesting this very much like just researching the stuff he was looking at. Unlike his personal knowledge base. It's like, what is going on in your brain, mate? What are you thinking about all day? It just like, oh, wouldn't it be great if all these thoughts I was having were in a wiki format and obsidian? I mean, oh, Christ. Also, the whole point of a wiki is that anyone can edit it. Why does he want anyone to be able to edit something that he's using? Well, it's not anyone. It's just him. Yeah, it's just him. It's just his wiki. Right. But that's just but that's just a document. That's just like a word document. That's I don't understand. No, I don't either. And like I there was a guy underneath there who I've just going to be in a newsletter and working on today that will actually be up before this, whatever. Yeah. And there was a guy below, but he said, yeah, I'm doing a less professional version of this using open claw. It's like. To catalog what great thoughts exactly. What? What grand missives from the depths of the brain? Minds do you fuckwits have what going on? Because every time I see my new game is to any time I see someone just being like, I I I'm I'm running 11 agents concurrently and they're doing this and that. I try and find what it is they're working on. I've never been able to. Never. There are images of like there's like a photo of them with like 19 terminal windows, the CC usage, saying they spent two and a half thousand dollars and a $100 a month subscription. But you can never just like look at them. Well, you have to be like, oh, wow, you you're cooking. They don't know what they're working on half the time, right? They've got one of those processes like an agent where they asked it. Oh, come up with ideas. Right. Yeah. Come up with ideas. Work on an interface, an interface series to observe in Figma and then have another have another agent look at that and say, this is the one. And then at the end, something will happen. I'm sorry. Can we can we just pause for a second? The fact that there's something called Figma, like it's just a ligma joke. I don't understand. Is how did they do this? But Figma's kind of use like. Sure. No, absolutely. I'm not I'm not saying it's not useful. I'm just saying the name. The name. Yeah. Having to walk around saying Figma. Yeah. It's kind of like having to say that Hadoop. Yes. Hadoop or Superbase. Yeah. Versal's fine, but like there are a lot of even anthropocas, a stupid name. I don't I like I think we need to return to an era where we only let Taiwan name our companies. Because look, you got Honhai Precision Limited. Now there's a company name. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation. Yeah, that's exactly what they do. Exactly. I know I do. Nothing fancy. Don't need to. You got Quanta. I assume that's something to do with one of their founders. Maybe they named it. If you named it before the 80s, it's fine. But like no more startup names. You can't do dot Lee and anything. Figma. Nope. Call it like I don't know. Art Corporation dot biz. Like I don't care. Just make this easier on me. But nevertheless, it's. I we were also talking about this point. There is another theory that I'm growing with LLM as well, which is. And I'm specifically leading to the journalists using AI one. Yeah, it kind of feels like all of these agentic quote unquote processes are taking up more energy than just doing them normally. Yep. Yeah, I think that's exactly way more. Yeah, because like. You know, all of this just feels like people trying to avoid the hard work of having to think right, especially if you're looking at people using this instead, you know, as a way of writing. The old saw is that writing is thinking. And I also think, you know, I mean, another old saw is that writing is rewriting, right? And so when people say, oh, I'm just using it for editing, and like that's part of the writing process. If you're using it for editing, you're using it for writing. And that's like that's not good. It's spring, which means I'm back talking to you about buying your clothes from Quints, who just launched the line of new wrinkle resistant European linen dress shirts. 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We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side. A happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to two percent. That's T.W.O. percent on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, I hearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus only I heart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think I heart streaming, radio and podcasting. Call 844 844 I heart to get started. That's 844 844 I heart. This wired piece is particularly bizarre. Like, I don't need to think about Kevin Roos too much. I don't think he he certainly doesn't and I won't. But Alex Heath, Alex is weird. Alex is weird one because he's been around tech journalism for 15 something years. It doesn't seem like a terrible bloke. But he describes this process of writing his newsletter. That's where he's where he claims he he feels like he is cheating. And he and I quote Max, if the reporter word, he sat down with me last week to showcase how he's integrated anthropics, Claude work, co-work even into his journalistic process. The AI tool is connected to his Gmail, Google Calendar, granola, AI transcription service and notion notes. He also built a detailed skill, a custom set of instructions to text file to help Claude write in his style, including the 10 commandments of writing like Alex Heath. The skill includes previous articles he's written, instructions on how he likes his newsletter is to be structured and notes on his own voice. And writing style. Then Claude co-work then automates the drafting process that used to take place in his head to your point. You were completely correct. Yeah. After the agent finishes its draft, Heath goes back and forth with it for up to 30 minutes, suggesting revisions. It's quite an involved process. And he still writes some parts of the story himself. But Heath says the workflow saves him hours every week and that he's now spends 30 40 percent less time writing. Yeah, mate. How much time do you spend prompting? Yeah. And also 30 to 40 percent, even if that's accurate, 30 to 40 percent less time in order to produce something that's writing in the smeared out voice of the internet. And yes, you're trying to get it to write more like you, but come on. And and also, you know, I just, I don't understand why they would be willing to relinquish. Not just the process, but also the sort of like intellectual ownership. I don't mean like, you know, in the like intellectual property sense, but like. Yeah, like the I wrote this. Yeah. And and and like the the way that you know something when you wrote it that you you can't know even if you were there for the editing. Like I know. I mean, I, you know, I'm I'm getting older as we all do until we die. And as I get older, my memory is, you know, not as good as it used to be. I think it's still pretty good. But, you know, I have trouble remembering all sorts of things that I didn't used to have trouble remembering. But I know the stuff that I've written inside and out because I was in there, you know, in the trenches with it, writing it. Yeah. And and so I know it, you know, chapter and verse. Why would you give up having that kind of knowledge of your own work and your own thinking? Well, that's the thing. Like for me, with my writing as well, it's not just like the writing and the reading or that it's I will be writing something and I will think and in my case, it will be like, didn't the information mention in June 2024, the open AIs annualized revenue, like I will go through an insane chain of events in my brain, but it's because of my interaction with the work that I remember that stuff. It isn't just and then I linked to thingy and then think it was way that that reminds me of something I was working on in 2024 2025. And I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that these people have had that joy of an experience. Yeah. I don't even mean this condescendingly. I just mean there is a certain joy to being like, wait, I remember this and digging something out that you painstakingly read and probably didn't even use at the time. Yep. Yeah. No, that's exactly it. It sucks. And also it seems like more work. Yes, I agree. This this seems like way more work to me. Like I am. Okay, I connect all of these things and I make sure they work and I've written a long text document. Also, he says that it's got all of his old articles in it. Wouldn't that fill up that context window? Anyway, yeah, put in all that technical stuff aside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I just I don't understand. Because like if you don't write it, then you're not thinking your way through it and like, yeah, OK, I go into writing something and I have sort of an idea of what it's going to be. But it's as I write it that I realize what I actually think about these things. And I get to a spot in the writing where I'm stuck and I realize, oh, I'm stuck because there was something that I thought I understood or two ideas that I thought were connected and I'm realizing the connection is is less clear. My understanding is less good than I thought it was. And so I have to sit down and work it out or I have to go check an idea that I realized I was taking for granted and maybe it wasn't true. And like and then this stuff is out there in the world with my name on it. And I just can't imagine having something out in the world with my name on it that I wasn't, you know, dead sure of and felt that I had thought my own way through on otherwise I'd die of shame. I same. Yeah. Like I fuck stuff up. I make typos. Oh, yeah. People love to email me about them. And they sure do more than they say. Nice. Thanks. In fact. But it's it's the beauty of that beauty of that fuckup that makes it mine. But on top of that, yeah, though I you have said this and Count you poor recently said it as well where it's people are scared of thinking. Yeah. And I extend that to then Cal also said concentration. Yeah. I extend it to friction. I think that that moment you just described when you're like, wait, what does what does that mean? What does that mean? Wait, what do you know? Wait, I don't get that. Yeah. That moment is deeply uncomfortable. That is introspection. Yeah. Like and it sucks. And when you don't like I spend a lot of last night learning about the Japanese economy, because Mikiura is a little critter and it does tie into things in worrying ways. But and there were moments where I'm like, great, OK. Oh, the Plaza record. What's that? Oh, Christ, I have to learn another thing. Oh, what's this? Oh, there's some sort of dilemma. Oh, Japanese economies. And there were constant points from like, what is this? Why am I fucking stupid? Why don't I understand this? But that's how you get smart. That's how you learn things. And you don't see how you do that. Having an LLM burp stuff up for you, even if it's based on things you have said. Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right. Yeah. Also, if it's just reading stuff you've written before. Is that like at some point, it's going to stop being you entirely because it's just eventually it's just going to be more AI than person. Very weird. Yeah. No, I I completely agree. And and you're also I mean, this to me is bringing me back to something that I said, I think the first time I was on your podcast, which is that in a way this is taking the sort of billionaire experience and making it like the billionaire cognitive experience and making it available for everyone because billionaires never have to do anything uncomfortable, like think. Yeah. I mean, it's also reminding me of one of my favorite tweets of all time, which I just found and I'm going to read it to you. Being a billionaire must be insane. You can buy new teeth, new skin, all your chairs cost twenty thousand dollars and weigh two thousand pounds. Your life is just a series of your own preferences. In terms of cognitive impairment, it's probably it's probably like being kicked in the head by a horse every day. Yeah, I think I'd be fine. But yeah, yeah. I mean, I would be good. I think a billion dollars, I'd be just fine. Feels like a skill issue to me. Oh, it's definitely a skill issue, although you're also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of you know, that the arrested development meme of like, no, it never works for anyone else, but it just might work for us. Yeah, exactly. People fool themselves into think this would work for them. Yeah. I and I also think that there is a busy box mentality to it as well. When you start using these things and it's very clear from the moment you start using them that they will not just do anything on their own. You can't just be like, do this. Yeah, like just just check this out. What do you like? Will you do this? And it spits out lots of stories about things being one-shotted, but very few actual examples that matter to me or really anyone I talk to. It's like, oh, it fixed one problem, but you can't just say do this entire task. So once you've done that, I know my reaction to that is always the fuck is this? I don't I don't log on to a website, have it break and then go, that's OK. I use another website. But I think that there is something about the experience that because it's so convoluted and you have to contrive all of these little doohickeys like fucking Pee Wee Herman making breakfast. But when you get to the end of it, you're like, wow, I'm so smart. I made the I made it do this. But also I'm going to give it credit for the thing that I ended up doing most of the work on, if I'm honest. Right. I mean, but this is also this is part of why I think the people who are most convinced that this is going to take over every job and one shot, everything are so often software engineers because, yeah, OK, this thing is changing the way that people code and does seem to be able to write some code for some people. But, you know, that's a limited human task, right? And and even for people whose job is, you know, to be a software engineer, the actual writing of code is is just one part of of what the job is. And the thing that's I think that the trap that these people fall into a lot of the time is they believe that their job, software engineering, writing code is like the the ultimate human intellectual achievement. And so if you have something that can do that, it must be able to do anything. And that's just not true. And it can also it can do that kind of. Yeah. Like it's like it can write code. Yeah. But no one also can seem to explain what that means in the end, because all these companies, it does sound like you've got companies where you've got a bunch of people just not writing any code. Yep. And I hate to ask now what? Yeah. Like really, they're not firing anyone. And the largely across the entire software stack, things seem to be getting worse. So yeah, good. I mean, it's like. Yeah. I mean, Anthropics, Claude, code, you know, code base dropped. And they're like, yeah, we wrote code with Claude code. And then there were a bunch of coders in there saying, yeah, I can tell that you did. I also love that we're meant to be scared of Claude mythos. Oh, I think that can find this obvious marketing trick. Yes. That can find any number. It can find every vulnerability and everything. And that's other than the fact it required human human people to actually find the vulnerabilities and coaching. And yeah. And indeed, like one of the main but one of the main exploits free BSD was not actually exploitable. You could just make it crash like an regardless. Yeah. But they couldn't find. The vulnerabilities in their own software. Yeah, I mean. I am sure like I'm very willing to believe that it's a helpful tool for finding certain kinds of vulnerabilities, but you're completely right. This is a marketing gimmick. Come on. It is. And it's also I'm kind of or honestly, a little bit scared of how well it worked on people. Yeah. Like how many people just like, yeah, this is the scariest thing ever. I will. Because I couldn't see it. It's because we've got this this narrative that comes out of these, you know, AI cults like the rationalists that that AI is going to take over the world and be able to, you know, make itself super intelligent and end humanity once it's able to write its own code. And all of that's just a sci-fi fantasy. But, you know, it makes it very easy for anthropic to do these sorts of marketing gimmicks or, oh, man, I don't remember who it was who pointed this out. But someone I saw someone online say it's not just that it's a marketing gimmick. It's also that this is a way of sort of soft launching it as an enterprise only product that's not available to the general consumer. And you can you can tell they're kind of toying with that idea, too. But it's not really obvious what the plan is. Yeah. Because the way they sell this shit is having one million different guys with an AI avatar on Twitter posting that this is what changes everything every time they do anything. Yeah. Like and I just I've also been playing a fun game, which is called go and try and work out what these big integrations do. It's not a very OK. When I say it's fun, I mean, it's exhausting because I went on the gold the Goldman Sachs and Anthropic, they're automating accounting and compliance roles. And but don't worry, the firm is in the early stages stages of developing agents based on an Anthropics model that will collapse the amount of time these essential functions take. What are those functions? Who the fuck knows? They don't say. They just don't say they like they don't because they probably don't have an answer. I want to I want to see those contracts. I want to see the actual outcomes. But it's I mean, this is kind of a vague point to say, but I feel kind of insane that we're still talking about it on this level. Yeah, it's still we're still talking about it. Like we're trying to establish whether the Sasquatch exists. Yeah, I mean, I just the the amount of vibe based crap around all of this. Like to me, I mean, because of my background as an astrophysicist, to me, like the the number one thing that is clearly just vibes is this whole push for orbital data centers, which is just like what the stupidest. I feel like we might discuss this before, but it's like, isn't isn't the amount of power they create? Like, wouldn't they? Isn't it an insane amount of power for like one megawatt? I haven't looked too deep into the tech yet. I don't I don't remember how much they like. I don't remember how like what the what the numbers are for power generation. But I know that bleeding off heat is a serious problem. And so because like space is a vacuum, vacuum is an insulator. And so even though it's cold, you can't actually get rid of the excess heat very well. And so you need these giant radiator veins that are bigger than the entire International Space Station just for one day to center. Yeah, and it's just not going to happen. And that's just one issue. You've got the radiation. You've got the fact that you can't upgrade the damn thing without doing a space walk. Like what what the hell are they thinking? If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner offering the products you need all in one place from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRANGER. Visit Granger.com or just stop by Granger. For the ones who get it done. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers and other health and fitness experts and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O percent on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, I Heart's twice as large as the next two combined. 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If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect podcast network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. So I just looked up real quick. Projects like Star Cloud aim for roughly eight kilowatt of power in early prototypes. That's not enough. I will just to give you some context. An MVL 72 of GB 200 72 GPUs is about 142 kilowatts. Yeah. So that that's probably not going to work. No. That's but you know what? That's also insane. I read about that. I read a headline about that thing in the New York Times, read one in CNBC. It makes me think that if I was an evil person like a like a top hat and a like a little curly moustache of some sort, like I could just get so far just being like, yeah, you know, I used the model the other day and actually is fully alive. It's fully alive and it's helped me. It's coming for your job specifically and then just go on being verified and like give them the job. I'll be like, yeah, the AI bot came up with this, mate. They're coming. They're coming for your wife. I would be on the front page in New York Times, terrifying message from British traveler. Yeah. I would just claim I was from the future. Like that would be in the Kevin Roos would be immediately intrigued. It's funny. I was I was about to say Kevin Roos would believe you. Yeah. No, I think I think he would hit me with a bean can like Sila in Heroes little reference for those listening to remember Heroes from decades ago. But it's just it's frustrating as well because even though you've got the big blinking warning signs and you especially like you've really gone deep into how nutty these billionaires are and how distant the things they're saying are from reality, it is still somewhat of a niche belief, which is strange still. Yeah. I know. I know. It's like we're the reality based community and somehow this is not the dominant narrative or even one of the dominant voices in the narrative. Instead, it's like, OK, you know, there's a few of us and the crazy people are just louder. And how do you see any of this going? Like just you don't have to come up with a perfect dance here. I realized somewhat on the spot, but it's like, sure, how does this realistically go from here? Because even putting aside the economics, it doesn't seem to be getting better in a way that matters. Yeah. I mean, we're in a bubble. It's going to crash at some point, right? That bubble is going to pop. And at that point, I'm not completely sure what's going to happen. It's going to depend on where we are when the bubble pops, what happens, or what's happening when it pops. But, you know, I think that we're going to see a few things, right? We're going to see. I would like to. Well, there's a few different things that can happen. Yeah. Sorry, I'm stumbling over my words here. But like, I think that what the tech industry or the leaders of the tech industry would like to happen at that point is they would like to use the fact that by then, you know, that they will have and kind of already have, you know, eaten all of the new computing hardware and, you know, created these giant data centers and try to repurpose them for something else. Because at this point, you know, like it's, it's, you know, hard to get a stick of RAM if you're not using it for a giant data center. And I think they love that, right? They want everyone to be using cloud computing and not doing any computing on their own actual computers. So they want to, you know, take that power that they've taken and keep it. And so they try to come up with with some other thing to be the next hype cycle that will incorporate, you know, the earlier hype cycles of AI and crypto and all the other stuff that came before and say, oh, no, no, no, this is the big thing and it's going to make all of the other things work and it'll be different this time. We promise, guys, we swear the same way that they did with this versus crypto. And it's going to be the same people shilling it both in the industry and the industry watchers, you know, the same way that Kevin Roos was a shill for crypto. Now he's a shill for AI. In any event, that's what quantum. Yeah. If you see Kevin, if Kevin Roos writes about quantum, that's how you know the AI bubble was burst. Yeah, I think that's probably right. Yeah. He's running for the exits. Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right. But that's what the industry wants, right? You know, the other or another way that it could go is when that bubble pops, you're going to see the current AI backlash, which I think that outside of the tech industry, AI is not actually very popular at all. And I think that people in the tech industry really underestimate that. And if there's a bubble that pops and that leads to a crash, that's going to supercharge the backlash against AI in a way that the tech industry is just not prepared for, I think. And I would like to see that. And I just I'm kind of reckoning. So I want to be I'm going to lead into a sentence that you're going to almost immediately guess what I'm talking about. I want to be clear that what happened to Sam Altman, the person who threw a Molotov cocktail, the person that threw the shot bullets, that is morally reprehensible. You cannot do that. It's disgusting. I'm against it. I will say that these that I'm surprised that these companies are surprised because it's like for the best part of four years, they have said, we are taking your job. We need everything as you a regular person struggle to get credit or thrive or pay your student loans. Like in everything's more expensive. Everything sucks. But we the industry get whatever whatever we want. And our explicit goal is to take your job. And the thing we own will control everything and all sources of income and everything will go through us. You should be scared because we're scared too. I feel like they should have seen this. I don't think it should have happened to them. I want to be really clear for legal reasons. But it's like, why are they surprised? Like this is exactly the like you've been scaring mental. You've been scaring everyone, but mentally unstable people will also get scared. Yeah. And it's horrible. And it it's horrible because it's like, I don't want more of this to happen, but I don't see how it stops. Yeah. No, I mean, I they are not used to their actions having consequences. Yes. And again, you know, billionaire brain, right? When you're a billionaire, your actions pretty much don't have consequences in a way. Again, what happened with Sam Altman and the Molotov cocktail that is morally reprehensible, that stuff should not happen. But in a way, the reason that was a headline was that it was a billionaire who almost faced a consequence. Yes. And someone who has said and it was like I've recently checked this since I think it was April 2023, Sam Altman has been saying, I'm scared of what we're building. Yeah. Dario Amade has been saying for years, this will destroy all white collar labor. Yeah. They have been saying we always need more compute. And as I think the regular people face this as well, I don't think an average person feels like they are taken super seriously by the world. Yeah. The world does not feel hospitable to the average person. But every time an AI person says literally anything, it's one page news and it's taken with the complete seriousness. The government has meetings about it. Yep. So yeah, I don't know. Why would people possibly feel angry about any of it? It's just the thing that I'm saying when saying newsletters, it's like, I think these people should tone down. They've said that we need to tone down the rhetoric. I agree. I think that they should stop talking about the models the way they do. Yeah. I also don't see this alarmism with the AI psychosis. Yeah. No, I mean, it's really it's really striking the things that they're willing to sort of incite a moral panic about and the things that they want. Right. They want to get people worried about this stuff taking all white collar jobs. They want to get people worried that it's powerful enough to destroy the world and that it's the most important thing that has ever happened in the history of humanity. And they don't want to talk about the people right now who are, you know, going insane and dying because of the existing products that we already have. Yeah. And I think also here's the thing that you will. Did you see the one of the blokes? One of the blokes, the one who threw the Molotov cocktail. Apparently he had posted Yodkowsky's. If if if they build it will ship myself. Yeah, whatever it's called. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if anyone finds it, everyone dies. Yeah. Just like, oh, I don't know. Are you surprised that people who have that you've monetized scaring people? Uh-huh. And people are scared? Yeah. Yeah. No, and I mean, you know, for all that Altman says that he disagrees with Yodkowsky, Altman also said that he thinks Yodkowsky probably deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, which I just. Which is one of the more what for? Yeah. Like what what possibly for strangest man? Yeah. No, these guys are weirdest guy. Weirdest guy we have to hear from Yodkowsky with the Nobel Peace Prize for Strange Boy. Weirdest, most unnecessary Harry Potter fanfic. I yeah, definitely. New categories in the Nobel. But it's just but it no, but that's the thing. It's like to your point. Yeah, it's exactly it is something that Altman claims to not endorse, but wholeheartedly does. Oh, yeah. And what's also interesting is I haven't heard anything from Dario Amade about it. Nope. I mean, you think you think within a situation like this, Dario Amade, we can't be like, I'm so sorry it's happening to Sam Altman is terrible with nothing. Yeah, no, that is a good point. I hadn't thought of it. Kind of respected. Yeah. No, I kind of respect because like we've really not had men of industry who just fucking hate each other in a while. So I think it's nice to see nice to see like some classic robber baronship, but it's and now as of the morning of recording this, open AI, an internal memo with a clear purpose of being leaked saying that anthropocas overstating their revenues. It's just it's just it's really we are getting into the funny part at least. Yeah, the cool zone as it were. Yes, exactly. That's where we're on. It's so unfortunate. It really like this on one level. It's very funny on that. It's just like we could be doing a for now. Yep. No, I mean, these guys love talking about opportunity costs. And like, what about the opportunity cost of like you fucking having your money and your position in society? Because I think that that's just enormous for like the opportunity cost of having a Sam Altman or having an Elon Musk is just so enormous and they never fucking talk about it because of course they don't. Have you seen did you hear about SpaceX's excellent economics? They look they lost five billion dollars last year. Oh, God, no, I hadn't heard that. I've been busy with other like with launching my business. You've been busy like enjoying your life. Exactly. Other than reading Elon about Elon Musk. He is I will give Elon Musk credit. He has invented a new way to fuck up his company. Just like just like attaching an AI company to SpaceX, which has useful products like Starlink that people seem to like. Yep. Yeah, no, I mean, if it works, then he has to fuck it up. Right. Same way he did with Twitter. Well, talking of billionaires, have you been looking at Gary Tan? No, actually, I haven't. What's he been up to? So he's the head of Y company and he's currently experiencing his own AI psychosis of sort because he's become he's become this weird like he has this thing called G stack, which is his Claude code set up. And it's just it's literally just at Claude.md. I believe it's like and it had people really like it because people want to get into Y Combinator. Right. So they say nice things, but it's been very funny because apparently his website just has like tens of thousands of lines of code on it. It's like it's it kind of feels like watching a kid at a cinema arcade machine. And they just kind of like put they're not got any money in it. They just put it at the wheel. Stuck, like rich racer or something or like time crisis. They got the gun pointing at the screen. No money in there. It's just very weird because I keep getting back to this thing. It's like the glasses from they live. We're finally seeing who the dancers truly are. All of these people who are allegedly smart are actually the literal opposite. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Well, why don't we wrap it up there? Yeah. Adam, tell us about this new podcast. What sort of things have you got coming down the pike? What plans have you got? Let's end on a high note. Absolutely. So the podcast again is called Dreaming Against the Machine. And we're launching I mean, as of this recording, we're launching tomorrow. It was our first real episode. And we have a bunch of great guests coming up. You're one of them, Ed. And we've also got. Who else do we have? We've got a bunch of the original A.I. bias people like Sophia Noble and and Kathy O'Neill. We've got some great sci-fi people like Kim Stanley Robinson coming on the podcast. Oh, yeah. And, you know, some some really great scientists as well, like John DePrescott Weinstein, who we're talking with about Star Trek. And oh, yeah. And also, you know, some amazing haters like you or Dave Karp. So, yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. The conversations have already we've already got a few episodes in the can. And those conversations have been great. And basically, it's going to be a place to try to figure out what a good future might look like and try to look for some hope and be really cringingly sincere and earnest, because that's kind of my entire deal. And I think that's the only way to fight against the darkness. Really? Like it's the only the only real way forward for the light to win is to actually be sincere about the things we like, because as much of a hate just as I am, I do love the people in this community and the people go, you're awesome. Like we can have cool conversations in this show that are not happening elsewhere. I'm glad that someone is doing something positive. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that was the idea. It's like there's enough darkness out there. If we want to if we want to win this thing, it's not enough to say what we don't like. We got to talk about what we want. Hell, yeah. Well, Adam, thank you so much for joining me. We will we will link to all of your your various escapades in the pro in the episode notes, flawless. They're just going to keep going. I am, of course, Ed Zittron. You can find me on a monologue this week. I'm not going to surprise you with Ronan Farrow interview again. But yes, thank you all for listening. Of course, you catch us on the monologue and we'll have some fun interviews coming up, everyone. Got the boys from this machine kills coming as well. Anyway, catch you on the monologue, everyone, and thank you, Adam, for joining us. Thanks, Ed, for having me. Thank you for listening to better offline. The editor and composer of the better offline theme song is Matosowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I dot com. You can email me at easy at better offline dot com or visit better offline dot com to find more podcasts links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat dot where's your ed dot at to visit the discord and go to r slash better offline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, CoolZoneMedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, visit Grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O percent on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Beats of the Planet, Shalameen the God here and listen. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. And the full lineup is Nuts. We got the Grit and Age Podcasts, Beyonce, Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague in the gang. Don't call me white girl. Mona will be there, keeping positive, sweetie with Crystal Renee. We got reality with the king with Carlos King and yes, Drink Chance will be in the building. OK. Plus, you know we're going to have a lot of guests, so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace to pitch your podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself. OK, pull up. A win is a win. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show starting on April 20th on the I Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human.