BONUS: “Why Am I So Tired?” – How to Restore Your Cellular Energy and Fight Midlife Fatigue with Baran Dilaver | Menopause, Perimenopause & Longevity

Welcome to Everyday Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Nurse Practitioner, Cynthia Thurlow. This podcast is designed to educate, empower, and inspire you to achieve your health and wellness goals. My goal and intent is to provide you with the best content and conversations from leaders in the health and wellness industry each week and impact over a million lives. I had the honor of connecting with Baron Dillevere. He is the entrepreneur, creator, and accomplished executive. He is also the co-founder of WonderField Biosciences, a longevity-focused bioscience company that pioneers cellular health innovations through its patented NAD products. This is another in the series of heavily vetted podcast experiences with companies like WonderField. You probably recall the dynamic interview I did with Dr. Andrew Salzman last year. We will link it up in the show notes. Today, I'm talking to Baron all about cellular energy and the benefits that can be conferred. Today we spoke about the physiology of NAD and other nutraceuticals, key symptoms of inflammation, precursors that are added to WonderField's products that help with not only assimilation but absorption. The impact of both NAD and creatine monohydrate on cellular energy and how they have a synergistic effect. Why NAD and creatine together is a powerful midlife stack. The impact of brain fog, mood, and stress resilience. Clarification that the FDA has made around NMM and other nutraceuticals. Why NAD injections and IV NAD may not be as efficacious as NAD precursors like NMM and NR. And last but not least, we talked about their new product, Choco Creatine, that I actually had the opportunity to try in December and have at my home. It's absolutely delicious. I know you will find this conversation with Baron to be invaluable and is a unique perspective on both NAD supplementation and also creatine monohydrate. As I mentioned, we will link up the podcast that we did with Dr. Andrew Salzman in conjunction with WonderField last year. Baron, so nice to have you on the podcast. Welcome to Everyday Wellness. Thank you for having me. I think NAD is such an important molecule. And I would love to start the conversation discussing what NAD is, why these precursors are more bioavailable, and why it is such an important nutrient. Sure. So, NAD NAD has been getting its fame lately. We hear celebrities using it. We hear a lot of people talking about it. Is that a fact? Is that real? Is there science behind it? And so the science has been, NAD has been, NAD has been discovered in 1906. But why has it been becoming more popular lately? Because what you mentioned, the precursors for the last five to 10 years, mostly Harvard's and MIT medical schools have been discovering that being able to increase the NAD levels, which decreases with age, makes a big impact on most people's lives. But what is NAD? So NAD is something so essential to the body that without NAD, you'll be dead in 10 seconds. It takes place in over 500 enzymatic processes, and 70% of it goes into ATP production in the mitochondria. So I feel like when I tell these things, there's a lot of terms that I bring up. And what I've found out is when I give people an analogy, its resume is much better with them. So is it okay if I jump into my analogy? We love an analogy. So my analogy is think about an NAD as life sourced water that comes from the mountains and feeds the valley of little towns, feeds the orchards, the farms, people fish from this water. They use the river to fish from. And some parts where it's flatter, they use it for transportation. That would be like the analogy of how it helps with neuron transmission and transporting whole bunch of important things. And it's used for irrigation. It's used for water in the houses. So it's super, super important. But what happens is as you get older, the water source, whether it's diminishes or gets like a little bit polluted, it's not the same anymore. So for people who are super healthy, usually that water comes down in very small increments and you don't necessarily see a big effect that you're able to cope with it really well. But in some cases, the way you see it is, let's say one year, your strawberry fields, they don't produce any strawberries or as many strawberries because for some reason, the water doesn't get to that strawberry farm is not getting enough water. And that's like one of your organs not functioning well, whether it's your liver, it's not able to process like those two glasses of wine anymore, whether it's your skin, it's not able to cope with the sun. Everybody's different. So in this case, you know, your body will react differently. In our analogy, maybe it's might be the apple orchards one year that doesn't give as many apples. Well, and I think for a lot of people, it's helpful when we're talking about things at a cellular level to provide analogies. And I love the concept of helping people understand if we make it about like a landscaped and a glacier. What I think is interesting is as NAD is declining, what are some of the common symptoms that you have had either clients or other individuals tell you about in terms of what can be a sign that their NAD levels are declining other than energy related? The biggest one is inflammation. And as we age, inflammation goes up and there are many contributing factors, but lower NAD levels definitely is associated with higher inflammation. Because I think for, you know, many people, they think about like their fatigue, they wake up and they're tired, they may feel like their recovery when they work out takes longer, they may experience brain fog and it can be hard to differentiate. Is it related to declines in mitochondrial energy expenditure? Is it related to hormones? I think for many individuals, they just experience this slow decline and it's not necessarily specific to just women. I think men can also experience this as well. What got you so interested in creating a product to replace, you know, provide this precursor? Because for people listening, it's the precursors that are bioavailable. It is if you just take NAD in and of itself, it's too large of a molecule to actually get into your cells. I think that's an important kind of pearl. But what got you so interested in the precursors for NAD as you were kind of evolving and creating this business? A couple of things. One of them was this wonderful encounter watching Dr. Sosman speak in one of the medical conferences. You had him, I think, about almost about a year ago. He's a wonderful guest. He's fascinating. And I was, they go to a lot of conferences and usually one or two speakers really impressed you in those conferences. So he was one of them. I was curious if I could just work with him as an advisor. And what was really relevant to what we do is his previous work about 25 years ago, working on fixing the broccoli gene that causes ovarian cancer and breast cancer. He really had to understand how the cell cell or mechanisms work. And he is one of those people who wrote a lot about NAD, not for retrosyntical purposes, but in order to solve the cancer, the broccoli gene. So a lot of the newer research references to his original work. So just meeting him. And at the same time, I did come across the concept of these precursors. And I was very curious myself where I could get it. I wanted to use it. It was really early days. And it was like, it was going to cost me like $10,000 a month or some, some crazy amount. So that also got me pretty curious about it. Like, why is it so expensive to make it? When what is it about? That's so interesting. And so Andrew helped me understand how interesting and promising this field is. And we're still at the early stages. So people are asking if NADs are fad, it absolutely is not. We're going to see so many more good science coming out. One of them, for instance, that we started working on. They, they ask Andrew to help collaborate with. Yale is doing a massive, the largest trial on NMN. I think for that matter on NAD with 700 patients. And it's about fertility, specifically about fertility, both for women and for men, both for the sperm and for the oocytes. That's really exciting. And from your perspective, when you're thinking about, you know, your initial interest and then getting connected to Dr. Salisman, who I think is absolutely brilliant, really enjoyed that conversation with, that I had with him last year, how do you go from translating science into actually creating a product? Since you are an entrepreneur, I find this fascinating. So when you get an idea that you want to translate the science into something that's a consumer-led product, how does that process actually work? So I talk about the new products we have, we're bringing to the market because that's the freshest one in my mind. Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about the new product. So this is a very simple product, but we've been working on it for five years. So it's a dark chocolate. So the idea is, how can we make the consumption of these nutraceuticals more exciting and more fun? It's dark chocolates, delicious dark chocolates. I mean, it's a good for you dark chocolates. It doesn't have any sugar. It has allulose, which we will talk about it because it's very fascinating. And one of the challenges we had was, for instance, we wanted to add creatine to our formula, the NAD product formula, but you can't. There's, you know, you have to take like three to five grams per day. How are you going to put it into a tiny capsule? Like you have to take 15 capsules or like whatever, eight capsules. So N creatine is such a basic supplement 101 that, you know, most people have access to it. It's inexpensive. Even the good quality creatine is not that expensive. So it's a commodity, but people need to take it. So the inspiration was actually putting or Wonderfield, the younger formula with NMN and vitamin D and everything else in it. But there's there are complications. You can't really put vitamin D, for instance, into the formula, into the chocolate. I don't need to get into the details. So creating kind of stood out on its own. Like, well, why don't we just make start with creatine? Like, why not just have a piece of chocolate with creatine in it? That tastes good. So the tasting good part was the most difficult part. So bringing the concept, the idea, yeah, I'm sure a lot of people think about these kind of ideas. One part of the process was we had to taste over hundreds, single origin dark chocolates to see which dark chocolates resonated best for the product we were formulating anywhere from like Indonesia to Africa to Latin America, Central America, South America. So we ended up having two sources, one from Belize and one from Ecuador that really went well with the flavor profile we were looking for. I think this is all very interesting. So you said it's taken over five years to put this product or get it close to bringing it to market. And is it because there's a constant fine tuning of ingredients? Is there I would imagine there's a degree of research and development? I haven't created a product like that. So I'm just curious how you go about coming from an idea and then actually the research and development until you can actually bring it to fruition, bring it to market where you're actually able to recoup the investment you've made in the inquiry of determining how you can bring together two different nutraceuticals into one. There are so many steps that slows you down. So let me just try to pick back to top three. Well, first of all, when we first started, allylose was so new that it was not really available. So it took us a while to be able to get to the level that we were comfortable with this, but being able to source allylose. And for those who are not familiar with allylose, it's a fascinating sugar alternative. It's very different than your sugar alcohols or your stevia, which doesn't taste good. It does not spike up your glycemic index. So your body, you taste like sugar. It's 70% as sweet as sugar. It does sit actually gel Peter's after strangely, and we taste like sugar, but your body doesn't think it's sugar. So you just don't process it. It just comes straight out. So it's very interesting. So yeah, even like the chocolate, we have to go through so many different providers, but then putting the making the formula, it's, I mean, once you process creating it becomes really bitter. So how do you mask it? You add sea salt, you add like, you know, nuts, you distract it, distract people, but we managed, you don't taste any of the bitterness and the mouthfeel was super important to us. So it's getting the right ingredients, but the formula. And then of course, scaling up once you get the flavor right, how do you scale up the production? That's very difficult. I mean, we're still struggling with it, but it's happening. Are you feeling off at night, waking up more tired than when you went to bed? It's not just stress. Sometimes it's our bodies navigating the hormonal changes that occur in the perimenopause to menopause transition. And years ago, I used to lie awake, worrying, tossing and turning only to wake up feeling super exhausted and poor sleep made everything else from focus to mood and digestion even harder the next day. Ever since I started using by optimizers, magnesium breakthrough to my nightly routine, I feel more settled and ready for rest. For me, it helps provide relaxation and calm at bedtime without any groggyness the next morning. And what I love is that it's a blend of seven forms of magnesium designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality. And unlike other supplements, it uses multiple forms of magnesium to support your body more broadly and it comes with a 365 day money back guaranteed. If you want to feel more rested, head to buy optimizers and use code Cynthia 15 to get 15% off of any order. Again, that's by optimizers B I O P T I M I Z E R S.com slash Cynthia and use code Cynthia 15 to get 15% off of any order. And if you subscribe, not only will you get amazing discounts and free gifts, you will make sure your monthly supply is always guaranteed. If you're in perimenopause or menopause and are feeling more fatigued, dizzy, lightheaded, struggling with headaches or noticing your workouts feel harder than they used to, electrolytes may be part of the missing piece. As estrogen declines, we lose some of the fluid regulating and vascular protective effects that hormones once provided. That means blood pressure regulation can shift, cortisol can run higher and many women become more sensitive to dehydration, especially if you're strength training, walking more, intermittent fasting or reducing processed foods. That's why I love element. It is my favorite electrolyte formulation and I've exclusively used their products for the past six years. It contains a science backed ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium without sugar, artificial ingredients or unnecessary fillers. It supports hydration at a cellular level, helps reduce muscle cramps, improves energy as well as recovery and can even support better stress resilience. This is particularly helpful in midlife when we're prioritizing metabolic health and muscle preservation. I personally use element throughout the day and it's become a staple in my routine as well as my household. If you'd like to try it, go to drinkelement.com slash Cynthia to receive a free sample pack with any purchase. Stay hydrated, stay strong, especially in midlife. Now, it's really exciting and I think from the perspective of someone who has not created a tangible product like that, that it must be a great deal of trial and error for you and the R&D team, I would imagine. Absolutely. I've done a lot of products and I always say that I'm not going to do physical products anymore. I find myself doing physical products because I think I follow things that I want for myself so I end up liking physical things like dark chocolates. Yeah. Well, my community is certainly really familiarized with creatine monohydrate but from your perspective, what do you think are some of the key benefits of adding creatine monohydrate to NMM and creating this delicious product? Obviously, it tastes really good but with that being said, from your perspective, from more of a visionary perspective, what was so tangible for you to want to bring these two together in one product for consumers? They need to be consumed for cellular energy. We come to longevity from that perspective of cellular energy and why it matters. We talked about the analogy, right? It really affects everything in the body but creatine and NAD, they actually work together helping with the energy. One thing about creatine that most people don't necessarily talk about much and it's together with NAD, it's their role in keeping our guts healthy. Leaky guts, actually, there's a lot of inflammation that comes out of leaky guts and we all have different levels of leakiness. Nothing is perfect. But as we age, let me just step back for a second. Energy consumption. Let's talk about energy consumption for a second. Think about when you go to dinner, when you have a big dinner, isn't it really difficult to move afterwards? Doesn't everybody feel heavy or even a big lunch? Don't you want to just take a nap after a big lunch or you get cold? If you go to a restaurant in the evening, it's all warm and then you get up and like, did they get that much colder? No, because you ate so much, your body is not able to cope with the temperature anymore. So what's happening is your body goes into overdrive to take all those nutrition and distribute it into the system. There's a lot going on after you eat. So that's why all the energy is going to your guts, your stomach, your gut, your intestines. Another example of high energy consumption is your brain. Your brain consumes so much energy. So that's why you don't want to have a super important meeting after a big lunch. When you use your brain, it consumes so much energy that you want to be fresh. That's why when you wake up in the morning, you have that nice fresh energy you want to tackle the hardest tasks. So what I'm trying to get to is, so your guts, your brain, they need tremendous amounts of NAD and creatine. We can talk about how NAD and creatine, they both help with energy production in the cell. But if your gut is not optimal, your gut needs more energy to be able to fight against the bacteria because, you know, if the bacteria leaks through that, what we call the tight junction, you're in trouble. And you know, the more of those imperfect cells that you have that lets like they're leaky, the more inflammation is going to cause, the more your body is going to be in overdrive, the more your energy is going to be sucked through there. So there's the gut brain connection is right there anyways, right? So I think the question was, why does NAD and creatine so interesting to us is because both for the guts and the for the brain, not many people talk about how important NAD and creatine is. And if we can have a healthy guts, you're in a much, much better place for everything else to function better because you're not sucking up, consuming all that energy from the other places that the energy needs to go to. Well, and I think especially for my community, we know that women are four to five times more likely to develop autoimmune conditions in middle age. And what precedes being diagnosed with an autoimmune condition is at some point you've had a leaky gut. And so that small intestinal lining is only one cell layer thick. And when you break down those tight junctions, either due to antibiotics, chronic stress, a decline in estrogen, estrogen is the mortar in the bricks that keep those tight junctions closed. You will leak food particles into your bloodstream. You'll trigger an immune response. And so for a lot of middle-aged women, these are symptoms that they are experiencing with those changes in alterations and hormone. And I think for many of my community, they like the idea of being able to supplement with nutraceuticals that are going to be helpful, not just for energy, ATP production in the body, but also potentially, and it's not something I talk about as often, but I should be about the gut impact of high-quality creatine. So I think for a lot of listeners, we understand it in the context, creatine monohydrate in the context of muscle strength. And at higher doses, we can cross the blood-brain barrier, can help with jet lag, can help with sleep architecture, can help with bone health, but probably not as commonly known that there are gut health benefits of creatine monohydrate. And to your point, when your body has to focus on repair, that is going to require more energy than just normal homeostasis. And I think that's really what you're speaking to is if your gut lining is compromised, your gut health is compromised, that's going to potentially pivot valuable energy away from other areas. And when you mentioned having a big meal and getting cold afterwards or tired, sometimes that can be a blood sugar issue. Sometimes that can just create your body is shunting so much blood to your core to process the bowl as the food you've consumed. For me, I know that if I eat too late into the evening, I will get cold, and it's because my body is trying to process the food, and it's going to shunt blood away from my extremities. Now, when I think about the benefits of NAD versus creatine, can you speak to me about how they work a little bit differently inside the cell? So intracellular, when you use that word, are you comfortable speaking to how they work a little bit? You know, they work synergistically, so they work together, they make each other stronger. But from your perspective, do you see key differentiators on how they work inside the cell? Yeah, of course, NAD is more like the source of energy that takes place over a longer term, whereas creatine is something that is like immediately used for energy production. And that's why, like, if you're sprinting, you need much more creatine. Let me go back to analogy or maybe do two analogies. So back to analogy with water being the source, so that river there is a dam somewhere that's all that water is stored, so you can properly use it. But how are we going to get the water to where it's needed? Like you need pumps, you need irrigation systems, like not every farm is down the hill from the river and people's houses, like how are they going to get the water there? So creatine is more like the electric source, the power that gets the energy where it needs to get to. So they're both for energy production, but you need both of them. You need the source of the energy. And then you need another like simpler analogy is like think about creatine as the truck that takes the energy and shuttles at where it needs to go to. Or like in our case, maybe it just charges batteries and takes the batteries somewhere. So you might have all the energy in the world, but if you don't have the truck, if you don't have creatine, the energy will not get to where it needs to go to be able to put into good use. So in the case of like the muscles, explosive energy that you need or the brain, like you need to think. So if the truck is not there, bring in the creatine and it is not going to be able to get in there and like, you know, do what it needs to do. And I think it's important. So now it improves energy production and then creatine improves energy availability. So they work together. When I use the term synergistic, it's because they make each other work better. And I think that's certainly translatable into better recovery, better workouts, more neurocognitive effects. I think I can't tell you how many women express concern that they're, you know, middle-aged and they're like, oh, I forgot a word, men's sentence, or I walk into a room and I forget what I need. This doesn't just happen to women. It also happens to men. Less burnout because how many of us become less stressed, resilient, and middle-aged? And yet we're looking for ways, along with lifestyle, like let me be very clear, high-quality sleep and excellent nutrition and exercise. All these things are very beneficial, but then these nutraceuticals can be helpful for like layering on another level of support. Now when I think about, you know, one of the bigger pain points for women, and I would probably say it also happens to men, but I work exclusively with women, so I hear it frequently. The concept of brain fog and like mood changes, in terms of feedback that you have received about the Wonderfield product, the NMN, what are some of the common things that patients or clients will actually identify they've seen as improvements? I would imagine neurocognitive improvements, brain fog improvements, mood, etc. But I would imagine you're getting quite a bit of feedback on these areas in particular. We do, definitely. And again, everybody's different. So if somebody's super healthy, they're younger, it's hard to get great feedback from them, but the feedback gets more interesting at the symptoms or as the problems get bigger. So we don't necessarily try to work with people who are over 60, 70, 80, but they find us. And there are great stories. There's one, I remember very vividly, like this husband talks about how his wife is able to now go back and be able to solve crossword puzzles. She was not able to do that. And that was her joy. And she stopped doing it and she starts doing it again. So that's a very significant difference, significant change. You know, if then somebody says, well, you know, I feel like I think clearer, that's great, but that doesn't sound super significant. So we have received some great stories. And I'm not sure if it's just the NMN, I think it's the formula because we have a couple other ingredients in there, especially ergothinine that comes from mushrooms, which is really not well known. And I highly recommend people to look into consuming it as its own as its own supplements or eating more mushrooms like lion's mane, porcini's, if they're not easy to find, because the one clinical trial that we got the preliminary results on, and I do want to stop there for a second, it's a very difficult clinical trial because it's not a patentable ingredient. So no pharma gets behind it. This was done by a professor who spent his entire life on antioxidants and vitamins and he raised public money to be able to do this. And that's, he's the one who helped us actually to figure out the dose. So the clinical trials studies are very promising for people with Alzheimer's. So it helps them. I'm not sure if it's going to solve their issues, but if it helps them, that's great. And another fascinating thing about this ingredient, ergothinine, is babies have receptors for it and it's prevalent in mother's milk. It accumulates in the body for up to 30 days, whereas tissue damage, the only adaptive antioxidant that we know. So clearly a baby from one year old to somebody with 90 years old Alzheimer's benefit from it, there's something to it. So combining it with NMN in our formula, I think does help with cognition. It's really interesting. What are some of the other cofactors that are part of the NMN? I'm just making sure I'm enunciating that so it's very clear. The NAD precursor, what are some of the other constituents of the Wonderfield product? Because I know resveratrol is in there. There's some other components that help with bioavailability. Yeah. We also have a great polyphenol from high quality olives and olive oil, hydroxyl tyrosol. So together with resveratrol, their work is actually to reduce something called CD38, the spike in CD38 levels in our systems. And you're going to ask me the question, what does that mean? So that's another enzyme that chews up NAD as we get older. It is definitely related to also leaky guts, but it's in every cell, it's everywhere in the body. And so another analogy is if we are increasing NAD levels back to what our youth levels were, that means we are doing the precursor to bring the levels up. But then there's leaks in different places that is caused by CD38 mainly and or two other ingredients. I mean, they're phenomenal on their own. Hydroxyl tyrosol, that polyphenol is a very powerful antioxidant, has great neuroprotective benefits as well. But their main purpose in our formula is to reduce the CD38 consumption of NAD. So we are just increasing NAD levels from two different angles by reducing the leakage, by increasing the production. This is what I think is significant, the reduction in CD38. And so for listeners to understand where is the CD38, so we're talking about something that's intracellular. So it's inside the cell that is impacting these other factors and it's why the Wonderfield product is quite unique, both for the dosage of NMM and then also these cofactors that help with not just a reduction in inflammation, but making it easier to be able to be bioavailable. I'm kind of paraphrasing, but... You're doing a phenomenal job, yes. But for listeners to understand that CD38 is intracellular, it's not something just floating around. So it's an inflammatory response enzyme and so, you know, we need some of it. Yes. You know, there's a reason it's in the system, but we don't understand necessarily why, but with age that just starts going up. And we know that leaky gut was one of the causes for it to go up, but it's a massive consumer of NAD inside the cell. Yeah, it makes sense. It definitely makes sense. And in terms of, you know, things that you think are helpful for individuals that are listening to the podcast that are putting together, okay, creatine monohydrate and NAD together or the NAD precursor, they're very synergistic, they're helpful for energy, they're helpful for supporting a leaky gut, improving a leaky gut. Let's talk a little bit more about the allulose piece. I know you mentioned you selected it specifically because it didn't impact blood glucose variability. It doesn't have a bitter taste like a lot of these other sugar alternatives. I would imagine, and I know just the basics about allulose, but in comparison to things like sucralose or aspartame, it doesn't have a detrimental NAD effect on the gut microbiome. Am I correct? Yes, correct. It's very easy on the body. This is pretty magical. I mean, I'm surprised that it hasn't been more widely used, but we are seeing more and more of it being used. And I think production is catching up, that's one of the reasons. Yeah, I think for a lot of people, you know, it's always a common question if I'm speaking at events, people want to know, like, what's your favorite sugar alternative? And I always go back to the same thing. Like, we as a culture are so desensitized to sugar or desensitized to sugar alternatives because it's so proliferative, it's ubiquitous, it's everywhere, it's in our condiments, it's in our ketchup. And so I think a lot of consumers, even those that are low-carb or even ketogenic, they like knowing that occasionally they can have something that is blood sugar neutral or relatively blood sugar neutral that they can enjoy without feeling like they're going to have an energy crash because I would actually make the argument that for a lot of people when they go out and they have a sweet treat or they're having dessert or they have a celebration, one of the reasons why they feel terrible afterwards is because they get this massive rise in glucose and correspondingly insulin to bring it back down and then they have that energy crash. They get sleepy, they get tired, you know, middle-aged women might sweat in response to that blood sugar dysregulation. But you've gotten really good feedback that people have tolerated this without any gut effects because I know some of the other sugar alternatives can have a quite a significant profile either gas producing or can not be as tolerated. There's a guest I've had on the podcast a couple times, his name is Vinny Forterich and he's hilarious, but he always talks about it a lot of these low-carbon keto events. Some of the sugar alcohols can be problematic or some of these sugar alternatives. Yes, definitely. And how people, you know, it's like they're literally, they're thinking, okay, I'm going to have this sweet treat, I'm going to enjoy myself and then they end up having untoward side effects after the fact. And this is one of the other reasons why I'm sure Aliegelos was selected because it is so well-tolerated. It's yes and no because we have actually such little amounts in our bar that it wouldn't matter if even if it had a negative effect on the GI system. But I mean, if you consume a lot of everything, right, at some points your body will react. So Aliegelos, I think the upper level keeps moving up. It used to be like 33 grams in one sitting, I believe. Now it's gone up to 45. And I've used like 67 grams, no problem. But I don't have that much of a sweet tooth. So like that was just for to test to see what is it, would it be like. But in our case, we have such little in our bar and that already comes at four grams of creatine. You have to eat like 20 of them, which is an excess amount to be able to trigger anything potentially negative. But I do want to be clear about that. You know, you cannot just consume and those levels of Aliegelos that your GI system will eventually say, no, no, no, I'm not liking it that much. But the level is pretty high. I think if you don't consume sugar and if you all of a sudden start consuming sugar at those levels, same thing would happen. Your body will react. Absolutely. And in terms of A4M, which is where I actually, that's a medical conference in December, I was actually able to try it. What was the feedback that your team got when they tried your new product? I know that I thought it was, it felt decadent. I mean, dare I say decadent, it was delicious, not super sweet, but also felt truly like decadent. Like it was an indulgent sweet treat, but it wasn't super sweet. Let me be very clear. That's great. That's exactly what we wanted to achieve. We wanted to have a decadent, like a reward that you want to be looking forward to the next day, because my experience at least with all these protein bars and vitamin gummies, you consume them because you feel like you need to consume them. So the goal was to make something that's so tasty that you would kind of like be happy. You will look forward to have it the next day. So it's dark chocolates. This one has peanuts and peanut butter, and it's kind of like soft and creamier inside and like the dark chocolate is outside. I mean, there's dark chocolate inside and outside, but it's covered with dark chocolate with a little bit of sea salt. So yeah, I like the decadent, indulgent, decadent term. So that's the feedback we got. I don't think we got any, like, yeah, everybody loved it, which was really satisfying to hear. Right. And maybe if you have a peanut allergy, maybe not the right indulgence for someone to think about. If you're in midlife and you've started to notice that your energy, your strength, or even your recovery just isn't what it used to be, I want to share something I've been thinking more and more about lately. For many women, we assume it's all about hormones and hormones are absolutely part of the story, but there's another layer that often gets overlooked and that's about cellular energy. As we get older, our mitochondria, the energy engines of ourselves become less efficient. They accumulate damage over time. And when that happens, it can show up as a very specific kind of fatigue. You're doing all the right things. You're eating well. You're strength training. You're prioritizing sleep. And yet something still feels off. That's why I've been incorporating timelines might appear into my routine for the last five years. What I appreciate about might appear is that it works at the level of the mitochondria, helping your body clear out damage ones so your cells can function more efficiently. And clinically, this matters because mitochondrial health is tied directly to energy, muscle strength and resilience. For me, this has been a foundational part of my routine as well as my husband's, not something extra because something that supports everything else I'm already doing. And for women in perimenopause and menopause, this is an important part of the conversation because supporting your energy at the cellular level can make a meaningful difference in how you feel day to day. And my friends at Might of Pure are doing a big price cut. There's a one time purchase is going from $125 per month to $99 with subscriptions that will now start as low as $75 a month. The hope is that this will make Timeline more accessible to folks in my community who've been on the fence or tried it and lapsed. You can go to timeline.com slash Cynthia to learn more. Again, timeline.com slash Cynthia to learn more. If you're in your 40s and 50s and feel like your body suddenly stopped responding the way that it used to, you're not imagining it. Bloating, waking, sleep disruptions, food sensitivities and unpredictable energy are incredibly common in perimenopause and menopause. But here's what most people aren't told. Your gut microbiome is changing right alongside your hormones. And those changes can influence everything from how you store fat to how well you sleep to how your body processes estrogen. That's exactly why I wrote my new book, The Menopause Gut. In this book, I walk you through the science of how the microbiome, metabolism, immune system and hormones are all connected during midlife. But most importantly, I give you practical, realistic strategies you can start using right away without extreme diets or complicated protocols. You'll learn why the same diet that worked in your 30s may not work now, how your gut influences hot flashes, mood and weight, the truth about fiber, protein and blood sugar in midlife and the daily habits that help your body feel safe, stable and resilient again. If you're tired of blaming yourself for changes that are actually biological, this book will help you understand what's really happening and what to do about it. You can pre-order The Menopause Gut wherever books are sold. And when you do, be sure to check out the special pre-order bonuses I've put together for you. Again, you can go to www.CynthiaTherlo.com. You'll click on the banner. It'll take you to multiple options for where you can order The Menopause Gut in pre-sale. Tell me about the fact that the FDA has clarified that NMM, which is again this precursor to NAD, is a lawful dietary supplement. That's an important distinction. Do you think that we're entering kind of a new era of credibility and research and interest in NAD overall, given the fact that it has gotten this clarification from the FDA, which I think is important because it also speaks to the fact that the research that's out there is actually credible. It's not just a flash in the pan. It's not something that's newer novel. It's a real thing. I think I should clarify what happens with FDA when it comes to NMM. You could say, no, my it's mononucleotide. So FDA granted NMM the status as a dietary supplement, as a nutraceutical. And a few years later, for the first time ever, this is an unprecedented case, they said, whoops, we made a mistake. We think that this should be a pharmaceutical because a pharmaceutical company has put an application in to make this a pharmaceutical. It's very interesting because why can't this be nutraceutical and pharmaceutical at the same time? So that's where the pharmaceutical lobby and the nutraceutical lobby are like to consumer lobby clashed. Pharmaceutical lobby is very strong. And look, you know, there's like, I understand that some things need to be protected, patented if you're spending millions of billions of dollars. But NMM is something readily like your body makes billions of it every day. It's not some like really strange, far, hard, hard to discover molecule. So if they realized that they made a mistake, they didn't need to protect the pharma industry at the expense of consumers because consumers, this is, it's already, we already know it's so safe. Millions of millions of people have been using it. And the studies, the clinical trials also show that it's very safe. So far we don't see any real red flags, no red flags. So yeah, it was great to see that FDA's reverse their decision and, you know, did not take something that consumers are benefiting from the market. And to your point, now it makes it more legit. There will be more research. There's already more research. As I mentioned, there's this massive trial that Yale started just specifically looking at the fertility, fertility and attendance to how good the sperms are. But there's more and more research just coming out. And it's just not NMM. I also want to clarify that NR is also another good NAD precursor. They are very similar and they're both really good. So with the FDA's change of decision, we're going to see more and more research on NMM coming out as well, which is great. And no, it's certainly very encouraging. And for listeners, what's interesting about the Yale research that's ongoing, we know that for women, the most mitochondrial dense organ in our bodies are ovaries. And for men, it's their testes. So is it any surprise that that's where the research is lending itself because you're talking about very mitochondrial dependent organs? And I look forward to hearing how that works because I know for, obviously I'm at a different stage of life, but I think that there's also ongoing opportunities where women and probably men are looking to see, can we, well, men can father children far longer than women can birth children without technology. But the point of why I'm sharing this is I think a lot of women are very interested in seeing like how can we prolong the lifespan of our ovaries? And I think that this is, that's probably another direction things will go in. So in terms of talking about NAD, I think one of the common kind of misconceptions is that there are, I have to believe it's well-meaning individuals, they're talking about, you know, NAD injections or NAD IV. Unless it's a precursor, it can't get into the cells. So from your perspective as someone who's working directly in the nutraceutical space, what are some of the cautions that you suggest people at least be thoughtful about if they're looking to supplement with NAD precursors versus just NAD by itself? Well, first of all, NAD as a supplement on its own does not work. That's pretty clear. So I mean, a lot of companies are trying to get on the NAD fat and they put NAD into the product or they call it NAD. You have to look at the label, what's in it? It needs to be NR or NMN. Even Niacin is not a drug precursor that's been around for 30 years, does have some side effects. I'm going to talk to about IVs and injections for a second and then I'll go back into the supplements. So we do hear some interesting good feedback when people do NAD IV or injections. And we also hear a lot of like real side effects like people like have nausea, they're not feeling good. So there's something in there that we don't necessarily know what is happening. There's really no clinical trials on IV and injections. Some people are benefiting. There's something happening in the body. So Dr. Salsman or Chief Medical Officer, his theory is like, well, most of it probably, not most of it. Some of it probably turns into NMN because the body has interesting ways to cope with it. And then it finds a way to bring it inside the cell. That's a good theory, but we don't know exactly. We know that a lot of it comes out. You're also flooding your system with so much NAD, like you're triggering a bunch of different responses probably that we don't know about. So our approach is much more similar to how the body produces NMN, NAD. And so it's steady, like it peaks, spikes up a little bit in the morning, but like it's a steady level of NAD production. It's just not as much as your older, not as much as you don't produce as much when you're older as you are younger, right? So you're trying to bring back to overall NAD levels. But to your question, when you're buying the supplements, also the claims about the posomal, we have not seen any good liposomal products that has proven to work in the market. So liposomal is very difficult to manufacture. You need to spend millions of dollars. And we haven't seen that there's no liposomal products, whether NAD, NMN or NR, that works, period. So just go with what was proven, tested and proven, which is NMN and NR. And the dose is important. You will even see in smaller dose clinical trials, the results are not really that interesting. So you need to get the optimal dose. I don't even want to say high dose because what's high if it's not, if it doesn't, like if it's not relevant. So the optimal dose seems to be 600 to 1200 milligrams. At this point, some clinical trials, they've used higher doses, like up to 2000 milligrams. And the results are very promising as well, but no need to jump to those levels. So dose, what's the ingredients? Those are key in making the decision. Of course, like, you know, try to find a company that seems to like do their homework, their day-to-day, their COAs for every batch, a reliable company. I think that's important. And thank you for that clarification, because I do believe I have some friends who swear by their NAD injections that they feel better. And it makes sense from what you said with Dr. Salisman that there's probably some that gets into the cell, but I also have more friends than I can estimate who have said, you know, they did a NAD IV or did a NAD IM, which is the intramuscular, and they just felt terrible. And so I think it really speaks to there's a degree of bioindividuality. Can your body actually use what you're receiving? And I think that's an important distinction. Well, obviously, I always love our conversations. I so enjoyed seeing you when we were both in Las Vegas this past December. Please let listeners know about the new creatine and NMN concept, the product, the bar, which is delicious. I keep mine in the freezer and my husband and I, yes, the Chococreatine. I keep mine in the freezer and I've been like my husband and I have been savoring it our box that we have. We've been savoring it since December. We just kind of cut up a couple pieces and it feels very indulgent in a good way. Like you feel like I would not per se just sit down and eat a whole bar. I can share it with my husband. It's delicious. I don't feel like I get a sugar crash after the fact. I don't eat a lot of sweet stuff, but I like this because it doesn't feel super sweet. And I love knowing there's actual ingredients that my body can benefit from, not just a sugary treat that is going to end up not doing a lot for me other than probably increasing a little bit of inflammation. Yes, we also test the chocolate, of course. Dark chocolate has a lot of good polyphenols, good for your ingredients, but it could have toxins. It's going to have heavy metals. So we test the chocolate. Yeah, so it comes 10 in a box. It's about $6 per piece. It's about the size of it. I mean, I do have the individual wrap here. So it should be available before the end of April. We've been making it. We've been playing with it. So we've been streamlining our production. It's all handcrafted to a certain degree. So it's a lot of work. But yeah, we are very excited to bring something a little refreshing to your creating experience. You know, not every day I'm able to do my powders once in a while. It's nice to have the chocolates. In my case, every day I have the chocolate. Yes. Yes, it's good stuff. I mean, it's really delicious. And I think in, you know, many instances, this is one of those combinations that to me makes sense because I talk about creatine ad nauseam, like all the time. I think it's one of those. Creatine monohydrate is really this. Well, there's so many uses. There's so many benefits to it that I think the more we understand and I think the gut microbiome is this kind of new aspect to creatine research that I think is really exciting. Please let listeners know how to connect with you outside of this podcast. Obviously, we'll have all the links to all the products and we'll include links to the podcast that I did with Dr. Salisman last year, which is a deeper dive into the science, whereas this is more of like the applicability piece. Please let listeners know how to connect with you. Yes, our website is get wonderfield.com. Wonderfield as like how you feel. And I do want to emphasize your audience who's using our product. We really want to hear back from you because there's so many benefits that we didn't even expect that people would have. We learn from you. You tell us about it and we scratch our heads first like, huh, interesting. We were not expecting it. And then we do the deep dive and we understand the reasoning behind it. So it's hopefully it's a two way street. We really care about our customers and we learn from you. So if you're using our products, be in touch. So www.getwonderfield.com. And I didn't mention that my younger son had mold exposure in his high school. And so last year was all about Epstein Bar and mold and micatoxins. And one of the components of his treatment plan was the NMM Wonderfield product. And oh, go. Interesting. There's a difference, you know, for him, he's kind of an intense kid. He is an intense kid. Because he goes to an intense high school, I think it really made a difference of allowing him. He's now a senior graduating senior. But, you know, junior year heading into a senior year tends to be a little intense to begin with. And he felt like, you know, with this component, he would actually ask me if I didn't put it in a supplement stack. He would say, did you change anything? And I was like, oh, I'm always tinkering to see if he's actually paying attention to how he feels. And so he feels a difference. And so for listeners understanding that, you know, even if you have a younger person, obviously I have an 18 year old, so he's technically an adult. But if you have, you know, a teen or young adult and they're going through treatment for mold exposure, he had Epstein Bar, he had Lyme, I mean, everything. I think it really made a big difference in his treatment plan and recovery. So thank you for the work that you do because it does make a difference, not just for me personally. I'm not just for my community, but also my family as well. Wow. Thank you for sharing. I did not expect to hear those. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that it was able to help. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, as a mother, what do we always feel guilty for? Like we want to fix it. We want them to feel better. And, you know, if he's having more energy and feels like going to school, then that's a win win. Right. Thank you. If you love this podcast episode, please leave a rating and review, subscribe and tell a friend.