This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. The human mind's so annoying, it's one more thing. Armstrong and Getty. One more thing. I know mine is. Yeah. You've said this many times over the years. I hope at some point humankind can do this. Maybe we can with Neuralink or AI or something like that. You've said before that if you could live in someone else's mind, it's the most terrifying thing you could ever do and i wonder i wonder i wonder how much similarity there would be and how much would be like this is what you think about because there there are you know obviously there are things that you know we all have friends and family we know the things that they're interested in and think about that you never think about just like surface level you know like you think about golf a lot probably i never think about golf so it'd just be interesting just that right stuff like that so this is so a stoner conversation but i love this sort of conversation if you were not only okay so you're inside their head you would be feeling what they feel as well i think so yeah that's why that's why i say that's why i say mind instead of brain although i suppose it'd be the same thing but it's just yeah yeah yeah it's the it's a way they you know fully fully perceive life on a daily basis as someone else would be the most fascinating thing in the world like if you got at the end of the day and thought god i want to be an example i'll use this as an example um you didn't think about sex at all today or something like that yeah but obviously uh he says uh reaching for the bong so i would still retain my own consciousness you'd have to be aware that i was being a tourist yeah yeah it gets very complicated very fast but I don't know. We can handle it. I would want to live in a man's brain for a day. Just any guys, because you guys think so much differently. For example, if I say, hey, if you're sitting there quietly, say, hey, what are you thinking about? Nothing. That doesn't exist in my world. It doesn't exist in anybody's world. It's impossible to think about nothing. But yeah, there's probably different levels of focus. Yeah. Right, right. I think what, well, I don't want to get off on this because I have a specific agenda here that I'm setting up for. So, um, I knew he had an agenda. It always does. Yeah. So, uh, for instance, I am not a worrier almost at all. I, I'd probably be better off if I was more of a worrier. Teach me your ways. I don't know. I just don't worry about things. And I, uh, my son has picked that up and now watching it in someone else where I think, how do I get you to worry more? You should be worried more about this. You're not worried at all. I'm like that. So he got that for me. I'd be better off if I worried more. But I just don't worry about things. But I am a, and this is probably worse than B, like, I know warriors to the point of it's awful. I won't say who it is, but somebody I've known my whole life, which might be a hint, divulged me the other day what a warrior they are. And they worry about everything all the time. And it sounds like just a torturous way to live, to worry about. I'm definitely closer to that side. I've tried to get better about it. Yeah. Well, this particular person just worries about so many things that are relatively mundane or the chance of that happening is so incredibly low. I can't imagine why you'd ever think about it. But that's me. We don choose these things And how much we can correct them I do not know That what i been working on because i a perseverator on things that have already happened there no point in thinking about things that have already happened like you're a guy who makes up words what was that word perseverator focus on and keep repeating over and over and over on your head never heard it you can't stop replaying the tape on things that have already happened that were you know it's usually bad always bad things you know what could have i done different different why did i do that you know that sort of thing that i do i don't at least worrying about future things even that though it could be torturous every once in a while you're gonna stop something bad from happening by worrying all the time my thing is never gonna do any good that's done and gone there's no point thinking about that now see i identify with both of those i do i do both yeah me too to a really almost pathetic level. Yeah, I have a sense of humor about it to your assertion slash question that you can probably manage it within a certain percentage. You can get like 20% more relaxed or 20% more forgiving of yourself, but you probably can't change that set point completely. So I've got a certain instance in my fairly recent life that was quite devastating. and you know i won't be specific about it but um uh that i i have really hard trouble not thinking about a lot every day and so i went to my uh you know my favorite therapists my chat bots for some advice on on what to do here and some of this stuff i thought was really interesting about the practical shift in the thinking we get some sort of i'm going to call it a sick pleasure the chat bots didn't call it a sick pleasure and it's probably the wrong term but we're getting some benefit out of it. You know, fear is a hit to the brain in the same way that excitement or joy is a hit to the brain. You're getting some hit to the brain from staying on these things that you like. Or maybe like's the wrong word. You've gotten so used to you can't imagine not having that feeling. That seems to be what happens. And so we get stuck in that mode. And so you gotta find a way to get past that. I'll just read what the chatbot said digging through lots of psychological research on this sort of stuff. Your chatbot doesn't look like an anime schoolgirl, does it? You don't have the active visual thing. Yeah. I want more with the French maid, but I suppose... Hey, it's a classic. The practical shift is to have other things worth thinking about. I feel like I was taught in Psych 101 in college, which was probably crap. I mean, that was 50 years ago, 45 years ago. They probably decided that was all crap. I brought up to, my wife was a psychology major years later because she was younger than me. And I brought up the idea of something that I learned in psychology once and she burst out laughing. What? They taught you what? Yeah. So I wonder if everything... But anyway, one thing I learned in psych class was thought-stopping. Like, you get negative thoughts and you try to stop them. And at least this advice, current advice from this chatbot, was that never works. Thought-stopping is not something that you can do. It compared it to trying to hold a beach ball underwater. The further you push it down the harder it tries to get back up and thought stopping doesn work You have to think about something different As soon as the thought comes into your head you don try to push it away No, focus on a different thing is the only way you can deal with it. Yeah, that's a little quibblesome by the chat bot. It's right, but I mean, I used to, for a fairly brief period of my life, maybe five, ten years, I had a terrible fear of flying. Just imagining the worst over and over again. And I finally engaged in thought stopping. Stop thinking about that. And then obviously you have to move on to something else. But. And that worked for you because I have not had any success with that. Oh, yeah. Great. Maybe it's because I didn't follow it up with think about something else, which is probably the key part. I just it's kind of like the old joke of don't think about a blue elephant. Don't think about a blue elephant. Don't think about a blue elephant. And, you know, you know what happens there. Um, I, I, you must remember, I have a mind like a steel trap as well. You know, don't think about X. Don't think about X. Stop thinking about X is, is thinking about X. So that's the trap that I get into, um, where there's empty space. Your mind always fills it with something and has to, you've reinforced with your brain over and over, over again, these thoughts that give some reaction in your brain that you're tethered to, whether it's a positive feeling or a negative feeling, you're tethered to that feeling. That's your normal part. Their brain wants to pull you back to what it's used to, no matter what it is, which is troubling. A troubling thought. If you're, you know, you got trauma in your life or you grew up in a household where everybody, this is probably why people are like this. If you grew up in a household, I didn't thank God, where everything was always stressful and fearful, your brain pulls you back to that because that is what it's decided. It's kept you alive this long. it's got to be working let's keep doing it even if it's bad for you yeah i had a good friend who discovered that about himself it really freed him yeah well i'm kind of having this uh occurrence to me i don't have something that major but i have always focused on these big negative things happen in my life and i just can't stop thinking about them and they're not doing me any good so what you need to do is you need to give your thoughts somewhere to go something else to think about and You know, you just choose a couple of things that you're going to focus on. And for me, anyway, instead of stop, go away, I've got to immediately fix up. No, we're going to think about this, like learning a new piano piece or whatever the hell is I'm going to start thinking about. You know, it really works for me. Picturing smiting my enemies. Oh, there you go. So satisfying. There you go. Yes. I've known people whose focus is that revenge on people that have wronged them, family members or whatever. That's all they think about. That's their happy place. Happy place is the wrong word. Comfort zone. That's their normal zone. And your brain pulls you back to what you've been doing your whole life, even if it's bad for you, over and over and over again. That's a fascinating thought. So maybe some of you think, I don't have any what I would consider negative regular thoughts that are holding me back. Good for you. But I do. And I've just got to, I don't know. I don't know what my focus is going to be. Parcheesi? I don't know. I need to come up with something. Fascinating game of chance and strategy, Jack. Parcheesi. Anywho, I don't know if that was of any use to anyone. No, I think it is. I absolutely am a firm believer that if you conscious of your consciousness you can do better you have at least be aware of the things you thinking and name them I a big fan of that Because once you do that there so much that not inevitable neurologically It's just habit or a comfort zone. Almost tons of stuff that we think is exactly what you said. It's not inevitable. It's just a habit. and maybe a very bad habit that we developed a very long time ago and that we just hang on to, which is really weird that we do that to ourselves. I had another point I was going to make. Oh, so the thing that the chatbot said based on the recent psychology is it's going to feel really weird and contrived for quite a while that whenever you have these thoughts, you say, okay, time to think about whatever it is I'm going to choose to think about and I better come up with something soon. It's going to seem contrived and forced, But over time, your mind will start to say, well, I guess he's not interested in that anymore. Let's switch over to this. I hope that's what happens. Wow. Okay. I've been a little eye-rolly through this podcast because I have zero control over that. Like whenever I've tried to do the whole, don't think about it. Think about something else. It almost like magnifies it more. Right. Right. And I think that's why it said it's going to seem contrived and forced and pointless for quite a while. But I love the idea of the brain finally saying, well, I guess we're not thinking about this anymore. Let's shift our attention over here. Yeah, I remember in your early days of thinking about alcoholism, I remember you used the phrase, you're trying to fix your brain with your brain. Yeah, which obviously is a problem. And I was fascinated by that notion. It's not impossible, but it's a task. The human mind does have the ability, we all sense this, I think, to almost think about it as a separate thing, which is weird. It's function, you mean? or like it's like it's two things at once the fix in your brain with your brain i mean yeah i'm i'm talking right now about something my brain does right or i could be talking about something my brain's doing right now yeah yeah and then thinking about and thinking about something else at the same time well i'm really really i got so excited about this last night because I've been doing this my whole life without even really noticing it. And I started having these conversations with different chatbots to like nail down. Isn't this what everybody does? And they were like, no. No, you psycho. This is not what everybody does all the time. No. I'm like, I don't have to live this way. I can not do this. This is an option. I'm almost thrilled about this idea of starting a new path, of trying to switch to something else, which I've done. we've all done. We've all had things we don't want to think about and you try to change it, but it doesn't necessarily work all the time. I like the idea that if you keep doing it, you keep doing it, your brain decides, alright, enough of that. Apparently we're done with that chapter. Close the door on that one and move on. Look at Jack getting rid of the RBF. Changing his brain. Yeah, I'm going to be perfectly fixed by the time I'm 88 and die. Personal development. Who are you? I'll be just great on my deathbed. That last five minutes, I'll be a joy to be around. Jack's become so likable. Oh, oh, oh, the death rattle. That's too bad. I lost track of the podcast about two minutes ago. I was thinking about In-N-Out Burger. I just haven't been thinking about it. Damn it, Michael. You made me hungry. Change the focus to a Big Mac. Well, I guess that's it. there's the death rattle that's hilarious
