816 Vesterheim; Atlas Obscura Curiosities; Lessons Learned

It was a brave group of Norwegian pioneers that started an emigration boom in planted roots in the American Midwest. The head of the Westerheim Museum in Iowa reminds us of their influence. There are people walking around today who are descendants of those original what they call the Sloopers. Coming up we're honoring 200 years of Norwegian culture in America. You can travel far or just look around closer to home to find delightful oddities in the Atlas Obscura Cabinet of Curiosities. Wherever you're looking the weird things in the world are both you know a block from you and a thousand miles away from you, wherever you are. Be sure to have a few things on hand to promise you friendship, good luck and to greet the new year like they do in Scotland. You have to have a piece of black coal, a wee PC cake and a wee bottle of whiskey. And tell us what lessons you've learned from your travels. Come along for the hour ahead. It's travel thricks thieves. So what have your travels taught you about life? I'm Rick Steves. We'll check in with you, our listeners, in the hour ahead to hear what you've been up to. We'll also look at some curious one-of-a-kind sites to visit recommended by our friends at Atlas Obscura. And we'll remind you of the time-tested traditions they practice in Edinburgh to usher in the new year on the right note. So let's start today's travel with Rick Steves with a historical celebration that's dear to my heart. I'll never forget finding my great-grandfather's name on the Ellis Island ship registry. He was one of nearly a million Norwegians to emigrate into the United States. This year we've been celebrating the 200th anniversary of those first Norwegian pioneers. Chris Johnson is president of the National Norwegian American Museum in Dachara, Iowa, also known as Vesterheim. Chris, welcome. Rick, it's a pleasure to be here with you today. You know, tell us first of all, before we get into the celebration of the 200th anniversary, tell us a little bit about what is Vesterheim? Well Vesterheim is a couple of different things. One of which is, it's a museum. It's a museum that has about 33,000 objects. It's the largest collection you're going to find anywhere here in North America related to the Norwegian immigrant experience. It's also a folk art school where we teach classes on a regular basis, both in person and online, of different hand crafts, whether it be wood carving or maybe weaving, painting, using the techniques called rose-malling, metalworking, and a host of other classes as well. We also, and we're not trying to compete with you, Rick, we do tours to Norway as well, where we specialize in the folk art experience and talking about the immigrant experience with a lot of our tour groups. We also produce a publication that comes out twice a year, where we delve into other topics of Norwegian-American history. This must be an interesting challenge as our world becomes more and more homogenous and more and more mobile, is protecting the heritage of a culture and keeping it alive. I find it fascinating that for a lot of immigrant communities, if somebody from the old country came here, they'd find that certain dimensions of their culture are actually more old-fashioned and traditional in the New Land than in the Old Land. Is there anything to that? That's exactly the case. I think of Norway and Norwegians-American in the United States as twins separated at birth. There's about an equal number of Norwegians as there are people of Norwegian ancestry living here in the United States. 25 million or so on either side of the Atlantic. The people that are here in the United States, many of those folks still use words and phrases that maybe are sort of 19th century in a way compared to Norwegians today. Norway has obviously come into the 21st century as is the United States, but some of the things that we hold dear here as far as Norwegian Americans, like you described, some of them are back from the immigrant period. The big news for me as far as I can understand it in your work is this 200th anniversary of Norwegian immigration in the U.S. It's an exhibit that's running the rest of this year through January of 2026, right? That's correct. Tell us, in a nutshell, what would we find if we go to Dekkaran and want to see that exhibit? This exhibit looks at that 200-year anniversary not necessarily in a chronological way, but rather thematically. It looks at, for example, how Norwegians impacted effects like the U.S. Civil War, how it affected higher education, different groups that were organized here in the United States as a result of Norwegian immigration. It explores a number of different themes. Let's just dive right into this amazing historical event. What was life like in Norway and what would drive a group of people to risk everything to cross the Atlantic and settle in this new world? Well, in 1825, Norway was a lot different place than it is today. We think of Norway today as a place that's highly advanced, Western culture, wonderful healthcare, education, a great social structure. In Norway at that time, this is a place that is still actually under the somewhat rule by Sweden. They have a lot of their autonomy for local affairs, but I guess what I would say as far as international affairs, they're still connected with Sweden, but they have a strong Norwegian identity, these people. I guess you could say life was so tough that in the toughest corners, people fled for a better life. They did. They did. There was not only for reasons of economics, but also, for example, with the story of the Sluppers, that group in 1825, this was because of religion. This was a group of individuals, primarily Quakers, who made the voyage across the Atlantic. The state church of Norway was not Quakerism. These folks decided they were going to come to the United States to start a new life over here. For many people in the subsequent years, a lot of it was economics, why they came here. Let's talk about the voyage itself. The ship was called Restoration. What was the vessel like? How many people were on it? How long did the trip take? The ship was something that the group decided they were going to make this voyage. They purchased a vessel, they refurbished it, outfitted it, and then decided to make the trip. They left Stavanger on the 4th of July in 1825. It was a voyage that took approximately three months to get to the United States. Three months? Three months. It's not like they stopped in Iceland for a little hike. They were just waiting for the wind to blow them to Boston. This is one thing that's illuminating about this is the voyage they took. It was not a direct route from Stavanger through the North Sea, across, past Iceland and Greenland, but instead they went down along the coast of England, through the English Channel, down along the coast of France, Spain, eventually along the West African coast, and then across to Brazil. Chris, is that because they were following the wind patterns? The trade winds, the ocean currents, exactly. Not because they wanted to see the Azores, but they just had to go that way because the wind was dictating how they could. Exactly, yep. Chris Johnson is helping us celebrate the 200th anniversary of Norwegian emigration to the U.S. right now on Travel with Rick Steves. Chris is the president of Westerheim, the National Norwegian American Museum in Dekora, Iowa. Their bicentennial exhibit runs through January 31st. They also feature historic and contemporary folk art, plus the furnishings, tools, houses, and art from early settlers. And they offer folk art classes online and in person. Their website is Westerheim.org, spelled V-E-S-T-E-R-H-E-I-M. And people were huddled on these boats for a long time, even just a hundred years ago. It was a tough sailing for a lot of people. And these were poor people generally. Right. One thing that was sort of amazing about this voyage was they left Stavanger with 52 people. And when they arrived in New York in October, there were 53 people. A baby had been born along the way. The Norwegians that sailed from Stavanger to the United States, and they grew in population by 2% in that three months. Exactly, yeah. But you're right about some of the immigrant vessels later on. You have stories of disease, exploitation, things like that that occurred. These are storylines that are similar to what you read about some days today with people making voyages like this. I would imagine there's literally nothing left physically from that first voyage. Are there any artifacts at all that survived that to this day? We have a few. We have a few objects in our own collection here. We also have, of course, the memories of those people. There are people walking around today who are descendants of those original what they call the sloopers. And they have a group that meets usually once a year down in Illinois. And they celebrate the fact that they are descendants of this original group of 53 Norwegians who made it across. So tell us just the 53 come to the United States. Where do they end up and then give us a quick swing through the story of the Norwegian community in the last 200 years? Sure. They made it to the United States. One of the first problems they encountered, of course, was if you think about the voyage over here, they were actually overloaded their boat. There was too many people for that size of vessel. And so they got into some legal trouble when they got over here. That was eventually settled. But they made it up to upstate New York. That was where they had identified a settlement to begin their time here in the United States. They only stayed there for a brief period of time. And then many of them moved further west into Illinois and settled in that area. But then if you look at a 100-year period between 1825 and 1925, you see these successive waves of Norwegian immigration coming through kind of leapfrogging across the country. So from Illinois, you have people then going into Wisconsin. You have people going into Minnesota, Iowa. The Dakotas out to the West Coast. So by the time 1925 rolls around, about a third of Norway's population had made the decision to come to North America. Meaning times were tough in Norway, I think. Whenever we look at immigration, I think it's interesting to psychoanalyze that immigration. Why do we ... There's a huge Italian community in our country. Where are they from? From southern Italy, because that was the poorest part of Italy and Sicily. And a lot of the cliches that we think about Italy aren't really unrecognizable in Bologna and Milano. But what's all about the poor part of Italy, the middle of Sweden, that's where you have the Emigration Museum at Vexu. And they lost more people per capita than almost any place in Europe, because times were so difficult in the middle of Sweden. And the same with Norway. It would have been the poor people, I think, that were driven out of there. Exactly. Yeah. In my own family history, they were people that were from more rural parts of Norway that made it here to the Midwest. Now, they must have had some dreams about the land of plenty and friendly and easygoing neighbors and a delightful climate and quick social mobility. Did all those little utopian dreams pan out? Not in every case. I mean, in some cases it did. I mean, there was some opportunities for people. We're certainly from the standpoint, if you came over here to farm, there was a much better farmland opportunities in this part of the world. But for many Norwegians who came over here, a significant portion of them decided to go back to Norway, either because, for example, maybe they had eventually inherited the family farm or they felt like they needed to get back home and they didn't like the conditions here. It wasn't 100% of them stayed. There was a significant amount who decided to go back. Chris, it was such an inspiration for me to be in Decora and going to this museum, especially with the wonderful opportunity I had to walk with you through this. And it's so great to have you on this program to remind our listeners of this wonderful parallel evolution culturally of the old world and the new world and how we can be mindful of that, we can support it, and we can enjoy taking advantage of it by visiting it. Best wishes with your work at Westerheim. Thank you, Rick. It was a pleasure talking to you and best wishes with your future endeavors as well. Westerheim's 210th anniversary exhibit runs through the end of January. In just a bit, we'll connect with listeners to hear what you've learned from your travels. But first, the co-founder of Atlas Obscura recommends uncanny places you can visit to add a delightfully peculiar twist to your next trip. You're listening to Travel with Rick Steves. It started out as an online collection of bizarre and obscure places and things all around the world. Now, Atlas Obscura is also a series of bestselling books and a growing community of people whose curiosity about the world sparks opportunities to explore its mysteries and its surprises. To take us inside the world of Atlas Obscura, we're joined now by its creative director and co-founder, Dylan Thurras. Dylan, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me on, Rick. For people who don't know Atlas Obscura, give us the backstory. What prompted you and your friends to start this and when and where did that happen? Yeah, so it's been a project we've been working on for some time now. It started back in 2009. I was actually moving abroad for a while. I was moving to Budapest. My friend Josh and I worked on another project together and we started talking about travel. He'd spent months traveling around the US, going to sort of small museums and outsider art projects. We just sort of were lamenting the fact that there wasn't a guidebook for the kinds of travel that we really liked to do. Then we sort of said, oh, what would it be like if we made that place? It really didn't start out. There was no business plan. We basically just said, okay, what would it take to build this? While I was living in Hungary, I traveled around. I wrote about places that I saw there and sort of slowly seeded about the first 300, 400 entries into the website. We launched and invited other people to come and suggest the places that they thought were incredible wonders but that people didn't necessarily know about. It's sort of a chance for people to celebrate places that they think are special but overlooked. If you mention it in your book, it's kind of like the old Wunderkamer, the cabinet of curiosities that kings and powerful people did centuries ago. Did you realize that there's that sort of connection and that continuity? Definitely. I think Josh and I, well, first off, in the Atlas, we list those kinds of Wunderkammers, the ones that still exist so you can go visit them. I think we wanted to do an update on that idea. Whereas in the past, it was sort of Wunderkamer, they're kind of the proto-museum collecting every odd thing that natural philosophers could find and showing them to people. We felt like, well, the internet, all of us live in one giant Wunderkamer together now. We can share the wonders both near and far. I think part of what is important for us about Atlas Obscura is the idea that wherever you're looking, the weird things in the world are both a block from you and a thousand miles away from you, wherever you are. That's kind of the nature of what makes Atlas work is that I think everything, things that seem normal to one person are profoundly interesting to another. That's sort of the idea. That's so basic and it is so underappreciated. I mean, things that seem normal. I was hiking in my uncle in Norway's backyard and I came upon a Viking burial ground. It was not even a historical monument. It's just a bunch of stones that for a thousand years have cut through the turf in the shape of a Viking ship. I can imagine a twilight, a burial ceremony there, a thousand years ago with Vikings. You can find your own private Stonehenge. There's hundreds of them around England. In Atlas Obscura, you've got this wonderful bit about the Communist Convention Center that's perched up on a ridge high in Bulgaria just rotting away. Tell us about that place. That is amazing. Basludza is incredible and I think actually may end up being saved because of some of the international attention to it. It was one of a number of what were called Spominix, which were these really pretty incredible, daring, gigantic sculptural art pieces made across the Soviet reach. Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, all over Russia, each one of them. They have these very distinct looks, almost like alien. The one that you mentioned, Basludza, quite literally looks like a giant UFO, a city block-sized UFO. It's amazing. You drive up this endless little winding switchbacks to the top of this mountain and then it looks like it was poured in concrete in the 1970s, which I think it was. You've got marks and angles and linen that is rotting away on the ceiling. We had to crawl through something and it was just covered with insulation that had fallen down and sun rays cutting through the broken roof. I thought this has got to be appreciated. It's apparently you've heard that they're going to fix it up because I think it's a quirky site that needs to be saved. Luckily, the good part of this attention is that previously there was really no effort to stabilize or save the location, mostly because it was associated with communism. In Bulgaria, that is a period of history that's not particularly fondly remembered. All the interest, I think, from outsiders has alerted people to realize, oh, this has some real value. That's one thing that Atlas Obscura can celebrate. We're taking a second look at some of the world's hidden wonders compiled by Atlas Obscura to add some spice to our travels. Co-founder Dylan Thurus is joining us from his home in New York's Hudson River Valley and the travel with Rick Steves archives. Their latest books are the Atlas Obscura Explorers Guide to Inventing the World, looking at 50 of the world's most interesting inventions, and Atlas Obscura Wildlife, featuring the world's most surprising wild species from all seven continents. Now, I like the thought that you write in your book, Dylan, that when you're talking to your readers, you are all co-authors. Talk about the Atlas Obscura community and how that helps you out in your work. Yeah, so from day one of starting the website back in 2009, you could submit a location. There was always sort of an editorial pass-through, so we would look at it and fact-check it. And try and find usable photos and that kind of thing. But basically, we knew from the start, if the whole project was just Josh and I putting in what we knew, we would come to an end pretty soon. And I think the way you find great wonders is because a local or someone who happened to stumble upon it says, hey, if you're in this area, you should really check out Basludza or you should go to this little museum because that's where you find things. I was thumbing through the book and it's so much fun to read because it's little tiny. It's just like little bits here and there so you can have so much fun just bouncing around. I came to Gallup's pottery shop in Avanos in Turkey. And I remember for years, we took our tour groups there and everybody, he was kind of a Romeo in Turkey and girls that visited would snip off a bit of their hair and he would lift them up and they would pin it to the ceiling. And today, it is a museum of human hair. His whole pottery shop is mossy on the ceiling with the hair from tourists who have visited from all over the world. And once a year, I understand he picks randomly somebody's hair and they get a one-week tour on a donkey with Gallup the Potter. I don't know if people actually take them up on that. I don't know if you know about that. I don't know. That's new to me. That sounds great. I found the entry in Atlas Obscura and I thought, that is really Obscura and it must have been the work of somebody who sent you an email and I could have done it. I could have sent it to you had I regularly said, that's fun. For all I know, it was someone who went on one of your trips and then said, hey, this is a special spot. I mean, it's funny because it sort of has a mirror in Independence, Missouri. I hope it's still up and operating. There was something called Lila's Hair Museum who she collected Victorian hair art. So there was a period of time where Victorians got very into braiding hair and these elaborate reeds and shapes and so that. These are the little kinds of places that you stumble upon. Now there's a fine line between a freak show and something that's quirky but not in bad taste and you've been doing this for quite a while and standards change. You could do something that was just kind of quirky 10, 20 years ago that could be considered. You don't do that now. Have you ever had to reconsider anything in your book that came off like celebrating a freak show or has that been an issue at all? We started out very specifically trying to not do some of the kind of things that ARIPLIS believe it or not or even a Guinness Book of World Records kind of did because our premise was basically, I'm from the Midwest and every year I'd go to the Minnesota State Fair and it never occurred to me that the Buttercarvings competition or event where someone scopes 12 bus of the local county beauty queens in Butter was particularly unusual but I think it turns out I brought people and they said, you know, this really is an odd, an odd experience. That's interesting. I guess it is. If you grow up with it, maybe it's just normal but it's kind of like if you grow up in Hungary, you would not be bedazzled by human bones. It's just they stack bones over there. I mean, we were talking about you got started in Hungary. Kutenahora has this bone, something bone house that and they have a chandelier made with every single human bone. Well, that's it said let's in the Czech Republic or Czechia. Oh, you're right. That's in Czech Republic. Kutenahora, but it's not far. The area generally does have a lot more bones than the Americans are used to at least. But there is a ghoulishness that is kind of appealing to a lot of people and you've got, well, let's talk about human bones. Yeah. In fact, you had this amazing cemetery in Naples, Fontanel. Yes. This is where people come to bring kind of wishes to the dead and then their hope is that they'll come true, that there's a kind of a relationship with all of the skulls and bones in there. You develop, yes, you adopt a skull and then this skull kind of advocates for you in the afterlife. I love that idea. This is an amazing site and it's in an amazing neighborhood but also you have a cemetery in your book from Romania, which is kind of a happy cemetery. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, that was it. So this is a small town in Romania and they developed this practice of painting. There was sort of a town grave painter. They'd be these wooden grave markers and they would have kind of the person's life story on them, including how they died and they'd often depict kind of the moment of death. So there'd be a car crash or a sort of... But they were sort of playful and humorous and fun and the guy who did most of those paintings passed away, was buried in the cemetery, had his own grave marker made by his apprentice who now does that same work. And so, yes. It's a joyful... I've been to a lot of cemeteries. It's funny and fun and yeah. I just thought it's very stimulating to have something a little different in something that we're raised might be one way or another. Americans are the odd ones out. They're discomfort with death. Most other cultures in the world have a much more comfortable relationship with death. So I think we're the odd ones. I don't think I've ever seen a dead body in my world. It's just not part of our culture. But when you go to a lot of cultures, you see dead bodies embalmed and behind glass. I mean, think of some of the embalmed bodies that might be in your book. What are some of the examples of that? Well, we have a whole kind of area of communist mummies. This odd thing happened, which was at the end of various autocratic leaders' time, it started with Lenin and they were embalmed even though it wasn't necessarily actually any of their wishes. None of these leaders actually particularly wanted to be embalmed. But there was a kind of a desire to preserve this kind of almost godlike figure and continue sort of that relationship. And so there's about 10 different kind of mummified communist leaders out there. The Bulgarian Lenin named Georgie Dmitrov and that was a big deal in Sofia. And so much in this Atlas Obscura, it opens things up. Dylan Thuris from Atlas Obscuras is our guest right now on Travel with Rick Steves. Since we explore some of the curious places they feature on their website at atlasobscura.com and in their encyclopedic books, including Gastro Obscura and the Atlas Obscura Explorers Guide for the World's Most Adventurous Kid. By the way, since we recorded our interview with Dylan, we checked on the Hare Antiquities Museum in Independence, Missouri that we talked about a few minutes ago. Unfortunately, they do appear to have permanently closed. But if you're really looking for hare in Northern Europe, there's an exhibit of Victorian-era hare objects on display that's in Denmark at the Bangsbo Museum in Frederickshaven. Tell us an example of what we might find as far as edible memories go in our travels. Oh, there's so many. One that I've always found particularly enchanting is something called the Miracle Berry, which is originally from Africa and got sort of popular in Japan and was made into kind of almost like a candy or a lozenge. And it does something very interesting, was it changes your taste buds. So after you eat this Miracle Berry or eat this lozenge, your whole, a lemon will taste incredibly sweet. A pickle has a kind of candy-like flavor to it. And so it's, you know, people gather parties together to sort of have what they call flavor-tripping events just to basically, yeah, have a meal that tastes very different once you've tried one of these Miracle Berries. Approach to tasting and food that we wouldn't have in our culture. You've also got Atlas Obscure for kids. How is that different from your basic Atlas Obscure book? Sure. We call that the Explorers Guide for the World's Most Adventurous Kid. And it is a big illustrated book. So we decided to use illustration because we thought in some ways illustrations can capture the magic of a place even more than a photograph can. And the book goes around the world. Each two-page spread has two different places, but we connect the spreads through a common theme. So you might be at the last Incan Bridge in Peru, this incredible bridge woven from grass done in the same way that the Incans did it. And then you turn the page and you're in the north of India at one of the living root bridges, which are grown from the roots of two Ficus Elastica trees. And so that's sort of, in this way, you get to kind of go from theme to theme, from place to place, and explore some of the most incredible, fascinating, unusual spots around the world. And so that's a really fun book to work on. You know, Dylan, with the tragic news recently of the Taliban overthrowing the government and taking Afghanistan, I'm reminded that there was a cultural treasure, these giant Buddhas that go back to the 6th century A.D. Bamiyan that were destroyed. When you make a new edition, do you find that some of the places that you've really enjoyed and loved having in the book, do you have to update it? And are some of the places no longer in existence? Yeah, we have a whole, it's a bummer, but we have a whole section called Lost Wonders, which is dedicated to the places that are no more. And it can be all kinds of stuff. It can be like what you're talking about, the destruction due to warfare, or sometimes it's just misuse, basically. Sometimes small museums close, outside our art projects get destroyed when their creator passes away. Yeah, it's definitely a part of this job. And with COVID, I'm really concerned that some of my favorite little museums, museums that are in your book, I believe, the Museum of Florescence in Amsterdam and the Third Man Museum in Vienna, and wonderful, works, Labors of Love by Just a Mom and Pop, how do they survive? How do they stay going? We do have to keep things up to date when you make a new edition. We're out of time, Dylan, but let's finish with some good news. With the latest edition of Atlas Obscura, what made you happiest to be able to add to the book? Oh, that is a really good question. I'll give you a little piece of news that it's in the book, but this piece of news is not in the book yet because it's brand new. But so we talk about something in the book called the Milky Seas. It was a region off the Horn of Africa where a bioluminescent patch the size of Connecticut was basically spotted via satellite. And no one's ever actually been to one of, except for sailors who sort of come across them accidentally and then reported them. No scientists have been able to actually see this in action for real, but there was a paper that just got put out. It basically said, due to the new kinds of satellite sensors, they think they'll be able to identify these giant bioluminescent blooms in real time and dispatch researchers to go in and take samples. And they don't really even understand how this is possible. It's on a scale that's a little bit confusing to the scientists who work in bioluminescence. So it's kind of a beautiful, these giant blooms of glowing ocean. And they're not toxic, they're not bad, they're fine, they're part of the natural occurrence. They've been reported for hundreds of years. Well, yeah, it's just a nice thing to think about. And maybe they could call Nick in Amsterdam who runs the Museum of Fluorescent Things, and he could get a little take on it. Hey Dylan, thank you so much for finding obscure places and putting them on all of our atlases. So we are more appreciative of our amazing world. Best wishes with your work, Dylan. Thank you, Rick. I appreciate that. Dylan Thurst also co-hosts the Daily Atlas Obscura Podcasts at atlasobscura.com. I love a good travel memento, even if it's one that I might not have appreciated at the time. There are so many little moments in our travels that live on in our memories and are often fun lessons for life. Up next, we want to hear about yours. We're at 877-333-7425 and radio at ricksteves.com. That's our email address. I'm Maria Cardi from Palermo, the capital of Sicily, the wonderful Sicily. And when it rained, that is not so often in Sicily, my mother used to sing me this song. Chiovi, chiovi, pasta con i fa soli, nino, si bagna, verrettori, so nanna, so nanna, morio, e chi ducchi bolli dio. The meaning is a bit silly. This is, it rains, it rains, pasta with beans. There is this guy that is walking while it's raining and he tries to take his grandfather's hat but he gets wet anyway. So this is more or less the meaning. Chiovi, chiovi, pasta con i fa soli, nino, si bagna, verrettori, so nanna, so nanna, morio, e chi ducchi bolli dio. That's my very first trip to Europe. I've carried a notebook with me everywhere. It's where I collect little moments and lessons I want to remember and sometimes things I'd rather forget. But I know that those moments that I journal have shaped who I am. What about you? What memories have become souvenirs from your own travels? Tell us about it at 877-333-RIC. Julie's on the line from Northampton in Massachusetts. Julie, thanks for calling. Hi, Rick. Thank you. How have you been traveling lately? What's on your mind? Well, I thought I'd share about a spontaneous spur-of-the-moment trip I took to Venice this past January and about how it sort of changed my life, actually. Wow. Spur the moment. Tell me more. Yeah. I bought my airline ticket that morning and flew out that night. And I had five hours between when I bought my airline ticket and when I had to leave for the airport. So the back story is that I had cleared my calendar for five days for a friend who was coming to stay with me and visit, but she had to cancel at the last minute. And so there I was looking at five empty days on my calendar, right? And I thought, okay, well, I could maybe get some things done on my to-do list. And I thought, no, you're not going to do that. You're going to binge watch PBS and fritter away the time and not get anything done. And you're never going to get these like five days clearing your calendar again. So go somewhere. So my first thought was London because I had no time to research, right? I had to leave that night if I was going to make use of the five days. And I know London. It's one of my favorite cities, but I couldn't get a good airline ticket. And then I remembered Venice. I had visited Venice four years ago and loved it. It was during the pandemic. It was blissfully uncrowded. And I always thought, if I come back to Venice, I'm going to come back in January. And I was like, ah, it's January. I'll go to Venice. So I got the last window seat in coach. I got the last room at the hotel I knew. Then I just had to throw some things in a bag and head to the airport. And I'm smiling, just thinking about it. It sounds like it was a great trip. Part of the cool thing about that, I mean, it was a blessing that your friend had to cancel actually because you took full advantage of it. And you didn't have to fret and muster around and everything with planning. You were just going tonight. So you did. And that's a little bit of pressure, but apparently you put a trip together and it worked well. What was it like buying the flight on that same day? Did you pay a premium or did you feel it was a good value? Well, I think what was in my favor was that it was deep off season. So it was maybe $300 more than it would have been two or three weeks earlier. So it was quite reasonable actually. And you were doing something, Julie, that a lot of people are thinking now because of the consequences of this crazy crowding that goes on in Europe during peak season, you were going off season. Now Venice is always touristy, but what was it like in the depth of winter? And how did you feel walking the back streets of Venice in January? It was magical. It was blessedly uncrowded. There were tourists, mostly European tourists, although I did run into a woman. At a cafe with a certain blue and yellow guidebook and we had a moment to connect. But it was blissfully uncrowded. It was atmospheric. It was dark. It was damp. It was mean to come. Dark and damp. Yeah. To me, the big drawback of traveling in the dead of winter is it gets dark by five o'clock. Yes, but I had the most gorgeous sunset views going up the Grand Canal on Vaporetto number one. And the Vaporetto, that's the floating public bus. My memory of the Vaporetto for the last many trips has been it's hot. It's muggy. There's no social distance. I'm jammed into this floating bus. I hope nobody picks my pocket and I hope I can get up to the front in time to get off at the next stop because it's so darn crowded and I can't see any of the view. Well, you had none of that because you were there in January. It was like you were queen of the canal. It was amazing. And then one of the things I liked too was St. Mark. And there's a big weaving rope line at the ticket entrance to handle all the crowds. Completely empty. Wow. See, this is very, very important. I'm so glad that we're able to talk and share this with our listeners because you can complain about the crowds and then you can go there in September and go to all the famous places or you can have five days open on your schedule in January and go anywhere in Europe, just about and probably have an experience like you're having. So I think it's a great lesson, isn't it? Yeah. The other thing I did that was different for me because spontaneity is not a word my friends would use to describe me. So being taking a spontaneous trip was very much out of my comfort zone for me. But the other thing I did that also was different for me was I went ultra light. So normally I take a roller board, carry on, goes in the overhead compartment. But this time I took just a school sized backpack, like a book bag. Your friends were probably saying, who are you? Yeah, it was like a game. When I was packing, like I said, I didn't have much time so I couldn't overthink it. Everybody can surprise themselves to a certain degree of how little they can get along with just fine. Apparently you learned that on your January five day surprise adventure in Venice, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. Like I surprised myself. I mean, I certainly surprised my friends when I texted them my arrival morning and I texted them a picture of Venice and said, guess where I am. But I surprised myself in it. And not to be too corny about it, but it helped me see myself in a new light. Julie, that's a beautiful takeaway. That's a beautiful, that is, I love transformational travel and a lot of people listening right now I think are going to be inspired by that. If you're presented with a frustrating sort of stretch of time for some reason, you can fritter it away. You can do those little to dos that you have to do or you could have an adventure that you will never get over in a beautiful way. Yeah. I'm so happy that I took the chance on the way to the airport when I was having this internal tug of war with myself. Part of me was saying, this is crazy. This is nuts. Turn around and go home. And the other side of me was saying, no, it's going to be fine. You're going to have a great time. Just go. I love it. I'm glad I listened to that voice. Julie, thank you so much and best wishes in your future spontaneous travels. Okay. Thanks so much, Rick. Take care. Bye. Lynn's calling in from Tamarack in Florida. Lynn, thanks for your call. Thanks for taking my call, Rick. Yeah. Tell us about what you're thinking about in your travel experience. I was tired of shelf life, milk in the cafes in France, just tired of it. So in my best French, which is standard to begin with, I said, je voudrais avoir. I would like, and I couldn't figure out a word for shelf life. I don't know what it's beyond me. So I said, I would like milk sans preservative. And I thought that was pretty clever. And I thought that was really good answer. Without preservatives. Without preservatives. That's what I would do. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. Yeah. Je voudrais du lait sans preservative. It sounds great in English. So what I had said was, I would like milk without condoms, please. A condom. Yeah. You know, it's grabbing for straws. I was trying to think of something and preservatives sounded good to me. But if you're so friend, I found out afterwards. It is that word that sounded right. But it might mean something else in another language. Oh, fake words that make fake friends. Exactly. So what was the response? She laughed from the depths of her belly. And normally they're just so nice over there. There's some usatures, but this was so far off the scale of what she had ever heard before that I knew I said something wrong. You brought her some joy. She probably still tells that story. You know, I was in, that reminds me when I was a kid, Lynn, and I was traveling on a super tight budget. For some reason, I wanted hot milk in Spain. I just thought it was nutritional. And I was in a bar and I remember I asked for Leche Cayente, hot milk. And then somebody explained to me later, no, no, no, don't do that. Leche Cayente is the Spanish slang for sperm. So you don't go to a bar and ask for Leche Cayente. Don't do that. And in France, you don't want your milk sands preservative. No, but between my condoms and that sperm, we've got it covered. Yeah. As long as you smile and say, merci beaucoup, au revoir, all of those nice words, you can enjoy fumbling your way around another country. And it's far better than never risking making a mistake with the language, isn't it? I try my hardest. And like I said, they're very, very nice. But she just couldn't contain herself. So what you called it, shelf stable milk. That's that kind of milk you find all over in your travels and it advertises it'll never go bad, but I think it'll never go good either, right? I just don't like that stuff. Give me some real milk. Yeah. So did you learn the correct word in case you want to have a milk that is sans preservative? Yeah, I did. I can't pronounce it right. And it wasn't son. Somebody told me it was something else, but then it's conservateur, which sounds like jelly or jam to me, but that's the correct one. Okay. So you want conservateur conservation. Well, good luck. I think I'm just going to say, send preservative and enjoy a joke with the person I'm screwing up their language with. I think I'm just going to take whatever they give me from now on. Happy travels, Lynn. Thanks for your call. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. We're checking in with you right now to hear about the moments that have stayed with you from your travels. Things that made you smile, laugh, or maybe taught you an important lesson. Here at 877-333-RIC and our email is radio at ricksteves.com. And Patricia in Bottle, Washington has emailed us and she writes, last April my husband and I traveled to France and explored little towns in Burgundian Provence using their excellent French train and bus systems. Our favorite town was Il Sur Le Sorgue with the water wheels and their market. My favorite experience was getting stuck in a very small train station in Vesele. The taxi we had ordered didn't show up. The next bus was not for a few hours. A local man offered to take us to Vesele in his car. During the drive I asked him what he did before he retired. He was a lyric opera singer and a private voice teacher. When I told him I love the music from Carmen, he sang part of a piece from it. What a voice. I had a front row seat to an opera recital in a stranger's car. We found out later that he was a voice teacher to some of the most famous opera singers in France. These are the kinds of experiences one can only get from traveling independently and to a small town. It wouldn't have happened in Paris. Whoa, Patricia, that is a great story. And as I was reading that I was thinking a lot of people, they wouldn't have been comfortable, you know, having a stranger in a country road in France say good in my car I'll take you there. Everybody has to deal with that amount of comfort with jumping into the car of a stranger on their own standards. But I would be the first one to jump into that car and that's the way you have these bits of serendipity that will stay with you for the rest of your days. And Faith's on the line from Lawrence in Kansas. Hey Faith. Hi Rick, great to talk to you. Thanks for calling. What's on your mind? So my faux pas happened about ten years ago. It was my first trip to Europe and we were in Italy in Florence and we went to the Mercado Centrale and I was just amazed at all of the things there and especially the fresh fruit. And I saw some beautiful strawberries and I reached out to try to see what the cost was and a lady behind the stand came out and literally almost slapped my hand and said no touch. And so I learned very quickly that that is a no-no to do in the market. Oh boy. You never touch anything there. And if you do that little faux pas there of touching the fruit in the Mercado Centrale in Florence, you happen to be in the historic market in the center of town which is a huge tourist attraction these days. So that merchant. We always got to remember they're there all day, day in and day out. They're trying to sell their stuff to local people and the tourists are in there getting their selfies and touching their food and probably not buying very much. So they can get a little bit short and I always try to always remember life is kind of tough for them and they're surrounded by people just being goofy and having a vacation and they're not going to always be the most charming people. So I totally understand. And I've learned in Europe it's better not to touch the produce even though in your grocery store you might be able to do that. No, I have not touched anything since. No touch, no touch. Don't touch, no touch. You got a good attitude, Faith. And I hope to see you in a market somewhere in Europe. That would be great. Thanks. Happy travels. Bye now. The creative Celtic spirit is in full bloom as the three-day Hogmanie Street Party in Edinburgh makes it one of Europe's biggest festivals for New Year's, complete with what's said to be the biggest midnight fireworks display in the world. Whether you like crazy crowds or prefer a more intimate observance at home, Anne Dorgan, Ken Hanley are here to tell us why Edinburgh, Scotland is a grand place to welcome in the New Year. Anne and Ken, thanks for joining us. You're very welcome. Thank you for having us, Faith. Are you looking forward to New Year's in Edinburgh? Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. How do you celebrate New Year's even in Edinburgh? Very traditionally. I know we have what's said to be the biggest street party in the world, but you know, if we're going for tradition, which I still do and Anne still does, then you make sure the hoose is clean. So the house, in other words, has got to be clean. And you make sure that you've got enough drink for your friends and things like that. People go first-footing. And to go first-footing properly, you have to have a piece of black coal, a wee piece of cake, and a wee bodily whiskey. What's first-footing? It goes, you go to friends. You just tap a door. We go visiting, and they're not going to turn you away. Absolutely not. And I think if your first-feature, traditionally in Scotland, is tall, dark and handsome, that means that you're going to have a year of good luck. It's quite interesting. It has to be dark. And I wonder if anyone knows why it has to be a dark person, dark. Here, it dates back to the attacks by the Vikings, the blonde, tall Vikings. If you were blonde, you might be a threat. So it had to be a dark person. And you open at the strike of midnight, you open your front door and rush through and open the back door. So you're welcoming in the new year and letting the old year out. So there's all these traditions that we adhere to. Wow, now is there something that is like a countdown in Edinburgh? It's fireworks. There's a big street party, you see, so they'll be counting down on the stage. There are entertainers and bands playing. And then all of a sudden, there's an explosion of fireworks over Edinburgh Castle. But then you get down with your neighbors and you open your front door. Absolutely. And you open the back door. Yes. Total strangers can turn up at your door and everyone's welcome. And they come in and you offer a drink, you offer a piece of cake, you have a wee bladder, you know, and then you move along. A wee bladder is a little tough. A wee bladder is a little tough. Have a wee bladder. It sort of gets known in the community who's got open house. That's what happens. And if you've got open house, then everyone plows in to visit you. If you're in Scotland on New Year's Eve, it's just like one big open house. They're on the streets, they've got their coal and their drink and their cake and they're going to knock on a stranger's door and celebrate the New Year. Absolutely. We all sing old Lang Syne. Old Lang Syne. Yeah, yeah, we do. You sing that Scottish, isn't it? Yes. Robert Burns. That's what it burns. What does that mean? Old Lang Syne. For the sake of Old Lang Syne. A lot of different interpretations I would say for old friends. Remembering. Remembering. Friends for friendship's sake. And you know the song. Sing the song for me. It's an old sentimental song, you know. Quinten's be forgot and never brought to mind. Should all the Quinten's be forgot for the sake of Old Lang Syne. Now here's the hand my trusty friend and here's the hand, oh mine. And it goes on. And you're all holding hands. It's this inbuilt thing in the Scots that you know, it's been great to see you. We don't want to see you go but because you're going away for the sake of Old Lang Syne, keep that memory, keep everything, that heartfelt thing. So that's the punchline of the lyric is for the sake of old friends. For the sake of Old Lang Syne, happy new year. Happy new year, what a best of you, happy new year Rick Boat. Travel with Rick Steves is produced at Rick Steves, Europe and Edmunds, Washington by Tim Tatman. Donna Bardsley and Kazemar Al Hall. It uploads are by Sherry Quirt and Andrew Wakeling. Promotion support comes from Sheila Gurzoff and our theme music is by Jerry Frank. You'll find more at ricksteves.com slash radio. Wishing you warm and healthy holidays. From all of us at Travel with Rick Steves.