Your Financial Outcomes Won’t Change Until You Do

This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So make a change and download every dollar today. Normal is broken, common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show, Rachel Cruz Ramsey Personality. Number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show. And my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at triple 8, 825-225, Johns in Orlando. Hey John, how are you? Hey, Mr. Ramsey, it's nice to meet you. So I've actually struggled to keep steady employment over the past decade. I've been fired several times due to personality and behavioral challenges. You know, I've got over 70 grand in Fredal Student Loans considering joining the Navy as an officer to pay off dad and to build a career. At the same time, considering joining, starting a podcast with my friend, my Ben, but I'm unsure what to do. I wouldn't be alive today without God and my parents' fund to me, but at 40 years old, I'd like to be independent. At this point in time, no employer will hire me, even low-cane jobs that you have suggested other people do to build a work record. I'm not sure what to do. What kind of advice can you give me to help me out? How many jobs in 10 years? It's actually 11 years before 14. 14 jobs in 11 years, you're 40. So what'd you do before 29? Well, I was actually, I spent eight years in college because I made a mistake early on in my life. I didn't have a plan. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had a brief window of time where I had good grades, but that was only one. Okay, so you head rolling. And go back to the other then, thank you. I go back to the other then. You had 14 jobs in 11 years. So it's not even a year each. And you said behavior and personality challenges caused you to lose your jobs. Is that what you said? Yeah, so I have a disability. I have a personality disability. And it took me many years to figure that out through different neurological assessments. What is the diagnosis? And PD is what I've been told I have. But my mom believed when I was vaccinated, when I was a kid and my body rejected the vaccine, and it caused me to have epilepsy when I was younger. And ADD and a few other. So how does this manifest itself in the workplace? Like you're just a butt. So what it's caused me to do is challenge authority to be a difficult employee to work with. What you're describing would be normally, I would think belligerence. Yeah, I guess you could put that in that category. And is it episodes, John, when it happens, like when it occurred, do you, are you aware of it? Like when it's happening or how does that work? Because I'm just trying to figure out the tools to put in place for your life going forward to be able to function in society, right? I mean, to be able to hold a job. Well, hold a relationship. I haven't been able to function in society. Yeah, that's the point. And the Navy doesn't do well with people who have trouble with authority. Yeah, I realize that. That's gonna be a nasty conflict. I mean, the whole military thing is authority. You know that. It's command structure and you will respect that even if your commander's an idiot. So, wow. Okay. So are you getting help with this in some way? I wish Dr. Deloney was here today because Rachel and I are going, oh no. But yeah, but the, I mean, is there a treatment for this where you can become functional? Honestly, no. There's no cure for it. I've proposed an idea to, because according to research, the reason why people have NPD is because of low gray matter in the brain. I think that it can be cured with nanobots that you can inject nanobots in the body and then have them programmed to heal the frontal cortex of the brain. We just left my page. I just, you just left behind at the airport, dude. But no, there's no support really. So what I, you know, just from a common sense, your older brother talking to you, listening to you who loves you, just from that, what I'm reaching for is to try to find some way that, because there's not a career self-employed, especially that pays people for misbehaving. Okay. And so I'm trying to find some way that you create a sustainable life for that allows you to be employed, that allows you to be engaged in other relationships, that allows you to do those things. And I think, I think that's what I'm wondering, is there a problem? Is not the career issue, it's the symptom. So that's what I'm asking you, John. Are there other tools, whether it's through therapy, or whatnot, that when things happen, right? And even like you could take anxiety as an example, like something is happening chemically in your body when that happens, but there are tools to get you back grounded when it comes to that. Is there anything, when you feel that rising up in you, has anyone give you any set of tools of awareness? I do this, I do that to at least be able to, with saying like just a nine to five, right? To be able to have any level of function. Has anyone given you any tools at all, or are you just kind of out there? Are you sure any kind of form of technology? Yeah, I mean, I have been given tools, but one of the things that happens when I go into these jobs is I bring bitterness from previous jobs into it and kind of self-sabotage at the early stage. And they already have this, I don't know how to say this, but they already know, because they can see my resume that I haven't kept jobs, they're kind of looking. In my mind. Blossom, you messed up. They're self-sabotage. Yeah, that's logical, that makes sense. Yeah. All right, so dude, the answer is that this is above Rachel and my pay grade. I don't know how to answer your question because the answer to your question is to find some healing. So that, you can hold a job. So that, you can hold a quality relationship. Because there's not a career path and self-employed people oftentimes become self-employed because they can't do anything else, but it doesn't keep you from having to struggle with it because your customers are gonna experience what your bosses are experiencing. And you're not gonna have any customers. I mean, if you're a mechanic and you're a butt when I'm the customer, then you're not my mechanic anymore and you go out of business. So I mean, you fix my heat and air, but you're a butt. Well, you're not my heat and air guy anymore, okay? And so, you know, if that's how it's meant, if belligerence is how this is manifesting, which I'm not an expert in your areas, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm just listening to you as a friend and saying, I'm gonna be in the therapy realm. I'm gonna be talking to Dr. John Deloney, which I will put you on hold. We'll try to make you a caller on his show. Maybe he can actually add something intelligent to this conversation because I can't. I don't know what to say. Other than you've gotta get your ability to cope. Well, and we have found people that are successful when they have very obvious limitations, whether it's a mental illness, a physical illness, a disability, you know, we talk to people in the show and they are, you know, legally blind, but yet they're making $150,000 a year because they figured out something that got them a job and they figured it out. So there is a level that I don't want, John, the thing I would not want for you is playing into any level of victimhood. No. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but people do have serious setbacks, but they overcome them. When we talk to them on this show all the time, and so I don't know what that looks like for you. Create a predictable environment. 100%. So that's what I'm saying though, is don't fall victim to this. No. And make excuses so that that's where the work of the healing and the proactive, you know, being proactive in that way is gonna be your next step. It has to be. But I think it is possible. I think there's something that you can do. Honestly, John, to find healing and to be a productive member of society. I think there's something other than nanobots. Hold on, Christian will pick up. We'll get you hooked up with Deloney. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real. It also means shopping. Y'all, if you're anything like me, December gets really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your spending. And that's why I love shopping on Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress-free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler. The holiday season, a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Marie is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Marie. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi, hi, hi Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. True. So I never heard a situation on your show. I've been listening to your show for a long time, but is there ever a point when you don't worry about middle bills? And so my husband is a portfolio manager and he manages about half a billion dollars. So money is, that's what he knows. When he comes home, this will sound like a joke, but it's not. When he comes home, he will start turning off all the lights. He, if the TV's on and I'm not in the room, he's turning off the TV. I've been banned from buying avocados because one went bad once. And he said, I never want to see an avocado in this house again. But he's not like that with everything. But it's just over the top. At night, he'll turn the heat down to 65. And it's freezing and my nose is cold. And I can almost be my breath. And is that normal? It's normal to have thermostat wars in every marriage. The other part's not normal. No. OK. No, Murray. No, no, no. Just it's, it's, are you guys in some sort? Like financially, where are you guys at? Oh, there, it has a million dollars. Half our house was bought for in cash. Our cars are bought, you know, they're painting cash. They're not used cars. I just got a brand new up to me. A 22 super. How did he, how did he grow up? What was his family or origin with money? Well, it's funny because his father grew up with a lot of money and they had a house staff. But his mother was very frugal. And you, you would never know that they ever had anything. They, they were just, you know, my husband is 64 and I'm 62. He's too old to still be making his mom happy. Well, his mom, his mom passed. You miss my, you miss my point. Oh, a good, a good little boy turns off all the lights in the TV and doesn't buy wasteful avocados. And he's 64 and he's still living up to her freaky savings techniques. Oh, my gosh. I just, I don't know how to help him. I don't know what to do. This is not a money issue. This is an emotional and spiritual issue. He's trying to control his environment. OK. And I know I do it too. We all want to control the things we can control. Let's call being a grown up. But he's doing it to the damage of his relationship and he's doing it to the level that it's outside the norm of reasonable behavior. OK. OK. Yeah. And so the, the thing is, you're sweet and kind. But there's, you're going to reach the end of this and there's going to be an avocado explosion in your house. Well, when I, I bought one last week and I was stressed. Yeah. I have to eat this before he sees it. Yeah. And, you know, and here's the deal. I mean, here's the deal. In Texas, you own half of the assets. So that includes avocados. You have no reason to be stressed. But so this is not, this is a, this is a, this is a control issue. And he does, he's not a mean person. No, he's not trying to be mean to you. No, it's just the scarcity of mentality to the end. He's, he's completely, he operates on the glasses half in and it's complete fear. Well, he's still trying to please his mother of whatever it is, though, there's something. Yeah, the motivation is very fascinating. And that's the route I'd want to get to with him because Marie, he's not living in freedom at all. Could you imagine being him? Could you imagine walking into a room and for decades, feeling this responsibility to turn off every light or god forbid something goes bad in the fridge? You didn't even know what if he was in a situation where he couldn't because it wasn't legal for him to turn off other people's lights. You know what I mean? It's freaking out. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's like, it's got to be distressing. Yes. So anyway, this is him. And that's the thing. And this is an interesting concept. When we talk from a spiritual element, Marie, you know, we always, the scripture is very clear that money, it can be an idol so easily. And a lot of people see money as an idol when it comes to us worshiping stuff and nice cars. But this is, this is idolatry in a sense. It has, it has become obsessed, obsessed with it to the point that his actions are not making sense. And so there is a big component here for him. Yeah. So I, you know, honestly, I think as a wife, you just sit down and say, honey, number one, I'm not living like this anymore. You're making my life miserable. You're weird. Number two. I do tell them that. No. Number two, I think we need to sit down with a marriage counselor and someone who can talk to you about your obsession with these minor little things that don't even affect our lives. You're freaky. And you're driving me nuts. Yeah. And I love you. But you need help. You're not mean. But you need to talk to somebody about this. And, um, or you just need to stop it, your choice. But I think you probably ought to sit down and figure out why it is you're doing this. We're multi-millionaires. I can afford a freaking avocado. I can throw avocados at the dog as a ball if I want. And we're not going to go broke. You're fine. I can buy all the avocados and dance in them in the front yard. And we're not going to go broke. Yeah. Like if you're not taking candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy candy to this charity, this ministry, our life doesn't change. It's okay. Marie, what's in this? We can buy an avocado. It's okay. And in this scenario, because when it happens relationally in a marriage too, I think the hard thing for you is, and something we've all learned through life, you can't change people. Like you are not going to be able to say the right thing to him where the light goes on and he, or no, the light will go off, I guess. Tell me once the light's off. It's just the idea of like, you're not going to fix him. He has to have the ability. He has to have the ability to change himself, okay? But you, Marie, can't function in this codependence of trying to make him happy. You will never make him happy. You will never be frugal enough. Yeah, free. So you need, so Marie, you. I won't. So Marie, you. I live in a cave, collect a lent, only come out on TripleCoup on Thursday. Marie, you need freedom in yourself and in your marriage for you, because regardless of how he changes, you have to break that codependence. I'm nervous about the avocado. You have to, you have to let that go because that's you, that's what you can control. So you're part, you can't control if he's going to change or not, but for you, live in reality, Marie. And if it pisses him off, it pisses him off. Here's the thing. He's not a mean person. No, he doesn't see this as anger. Does he? No, no, he doesn't. He's a kind man, but he's just controlling. I mean, very controlled. Yeah. Because he's a lot, there's a lot of fear. Yes. He's very generous with other things with a lot of things. Yeah. Very generous. We have a great, we have a great life. It's wonderful. It's just these habits from this like, yeah, these sampler lights are all of a kind of thing. And, and, and, and go to Sonic and it's not happy hour, I get an useful because light is lighted and I wait 30 minutes. That says, probably my route 44. Sherry Lime made. Talk to the hand. Talk to the Lime made. Yeah. Lime made will talk to you about this. I'm not talking to you about this. I'm going to be like, here's all the complaints for the next like six months that what your complaints are going to add up to is this $100 bill. So like, just take it and I don't want to hear complaining. I'm kidding. Don't do that. But that's basically what it adds up to. Yeah. It's there's, okay. I honestly somehow sometimes sitting down with a good counselor, two sessions even, they'll be able to hold up a mirror back to him and he'll see himself. And when he does, he'll be a little bit horrified because this is not a bad person. Yeah. I really don't believe he's mean. I really don't. I really don't think he's angry at you and, you know, earful, but, but that's just fear based. And so, but I, I think, you know, I would invest in two marriage counseling sessions and, you know, bring this up and do y'all talk it through and see what the counselor looks at him goes, dude, you're weird. That counselor's going to pull a string and he may be in there for six months. You know what the counselor's going to do? What the looney says? He's going to turn on all the lights. Oh, I can't. Oh, my gosh. You can't make this up. This is the Ramsey show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies. And there's two little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance. Usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Selling a house the Ramsey Way makes homeownership a blessing instead of a curse. Buying a house the Ramsey Way makes homeownership a blessing rather than a curse. It is tough out there right now on the real estate market. It is tough to buy. It's an interesting time. The Ramsey Way continues to go up and there is a shortage of houses. There's an inventory shortage and so that's why prices continue to go up. There's people buying in other words. It's happening. More people buying than selling. If you're a seller in a weird market like this, you need someone representing you that's going to help you maximize the asset and not think crazy about what you're going to pull off here. If you're a buyer in this market, you need someone to talk sanity until you get one of these bidding wars. That's a high end, high octane, high producing real estate agent that knows their stuff. That's the only ones that are Ramsey trusted. I got my real estate license in 1978 and so I know what a real estate agent looks like that is a high performing professional and I know one looks like what I call a donut eater. They sit around eating donuts and talk about real estate. There's a difference. Who's going to sell your most expensive asset? Your aunt who just got her license three weeks ago and she's sweet or somebody that sold 150 houses last year. Nick say on the aunt say, I'm just saying, okay, no way, don't do this. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent and get a Ramsey trusted real estate agent to help you with this. You'll be glad you did. Alan's with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Alan. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, how are you, man? Thank you so much for taking, taking more call. Sure. What's up? I'm so, um, got an upside down loan in a car that kind of ran into my car loan now and sitting down trying to look at everything that we panned in. There was on, of course, everything is going up. That's like one of our biggest bills that we got. The car loan is like 6.95, we're like 6.9 inches right on it. We just trying to figure out, I don't want to do a repo. I just need to try to get that payment down somehow, some way. What do you all want to go for? I'm going to go for a leverage. 32,000. If you looked up what it's worth on private sale on Kelly Blue book, you know, we even took it to like carbon. No, carbon is going to pay you a wholesale. They're going to pay you wholesale. Yes. Yeah, carbon acts on me. They told it that it was worth 22. Okay. It's, that means it's worth 27. Okay. Okay. Not because carmax is trying to rip you off. Carmax is in the business of buying cars at wholesale and selling them at retail. That's how they make a living. And so they never, why would they pay someone retail for a car? They sell cars retail. And so if they're willing to buy it from you for 22, you can rest assured it's worth 27, which leaves you 5,000 in the hole. How stinky is your credit? I guess it's bad. It's like 5.5 key and that's why I can't refining. Who's the, who's the car line with? It's what tell you to finance. It's a 22 tell you the camera. Okay. So somebody told me about sub leasing it to somebody. No, somebody's a fool. No, no, no, no, okay, okay. And why? Well, because if they don't pay it, you still owe it and they won't pay it. Yeah, you're taking the risk on somebody else. Who buys a car on Subly? Somebody can't buy a car any other way because they're too screwed up and screwed up people that are so screwed up they can't buy a car any other way. Ain't going to pay your sub lease and then you're going to get screwed again. You've been screwed enough on this car. We need to stop it. Okay. So, wow, what do you make? What's your household income? So I make 50 myself. My wife, she's a head dresser but she recently just got a job and a call center. She makes 18 an hour. Okay. All right. So how much other debt have you guys got? So when I look at everything with my kidney transplant and all that type of stuff, my credit of loan, I owe like 17,000 right now. Your kidney transplant. Is that like medical bills? Medical bills, yes. You had a kidney transplant? Yes, sir. Kidney and pancreas transplant three years ago, four years ago. Wow. How you doing? I'm doing good. I got it good. They call me a miracle because they say a lot of people don't give a call for a kidney. Yeah, I'm thinking after you've been through that, a car payment ain't no step, right? Wow. Yeah. Man, that's something else, Alan. Okay. So here's the answer to your question. Here's what I'm fishing after. All right. That's your question is we need to sell the car. In order to sell the car for 27,000, we need $5,000 to put with it to be able to pay the car off, right? Oh. Okay. And that gets rid of the whole stinkin' problem. And then we go save up and get $1,000 hoopty until we can get some money saved to move up out of the land of hoopty. But right now, I mean, cause that gum, man, with what you're paying a month, you could save some serious money towards a car. Ten months of your car payment, about $7,000 car, man. Sheesh. Right? Yes, sir. Wow. So that's the world you're living in. So we've got to get rid of this camera. Do you have any money saved, Alan? So there was another question of mine, but they only said I had to ask one. That's a very concerned amount because I got children. I get depressed about it. I'm 42 years and in my wife, we have no savings. We live in Arizona in a two-bedroom condo in this 1800 month. And we just, we don't know what to do. We're getting, it's just like we don't know how to go about it if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I've been around for a year, man. It's not fun. I haven't been with the kids. The pancreas kidni thing, but oh my gosh, I've been with the rest of it. I've been where you are. I know what it feels like to be scared. I was still working full of time doing it too. So it was such a journey. And so by time, my bills are paid and everything like that is kind of holly enough to save anything. So that's the problem. Okay. So here's the deal. Let's just close our eyes for a second. If you had $25,000, your whole life would be different. You'd be 100% debt-freeing out of this car. You'd have paid off all the medical bills and be out of this car, be selling it. If you had $25,000, right? I would, yeah. Right. Okay. $1,000 a month is $25,000 in two years. Okay. $1,000 a month, extra jobs. $1500 a month, extra jobs gets you out in 18 months. Okay. I need you to save up $5,000 and sell the stupid camera as soon as possible. And then just continue cracking that whip on that $17,000 from then on. And let's be done with this thing. And get you a cheapo, cheapo car. I don't want you to drive a cheapo car the rest of your life. I want you to get rid of this thing that's killing you. Okay. And it's not with the car max or carvana. It's selling it to an individual for $27, not for $22, but you've got to have the money to cover the difference. Because you can't get the title to give to the buyer if you don't pay off the bank. Toyota's got your title. So the moral of the story, Alan, I think, you know, the conclusion is what's going to help get you guys out. The fastest is raising your income. And if you can do something evenings and map it out too, because this can feel always really overwhelming, but just to say, okay, on average, if I work an extra three hours a night for five nights a week, you know, what is that going to equal in money? If that's driving Uber, if that's Instacart, whatever it is, you know, find some side hustle stuff and kind of map it out and just say, okay, how much do I have to work for us to get to a goal of $1,000? And then, and then timeline that out, just like what, what Dave did earlier, and then say, what if I did 1,500 a month, right? Like start running those numbers and actually write them down. You and your wife sit down and that and your 50,000 doesn't even count her salary. So maybe there's a challenge for you guys lifestyle wise to take her income. Yeah, and throw it, yep, all of that. Yeah, everything at this. Throw everything at it. We're cheering for you, Alan. Yeah, so you're saying, oh, we're going to put you through financial peace university. And then I want you to call us back as you're walking through this. If you've got other questions, you get some money piled up. You don't know exactly what to do. Holler will help you, man. We've been scared too. We know what it's like. This is the Ramsey Show. The holidays are supposed to be joyful. But they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel and about 1,000 limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then, if you have any questions, just ask me if this is the best way to handle this. Right now you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text, and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead. Go to boostmobile.com slash ramsy and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com slash ramsy. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash ramsy for details. The ramsy show question of the day is brought to you by why refi defaulted private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances, your relationships. Why refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation and ability to pay. So today's question comes from Alexandria in Texas. I'm currently going through a divorce and recently found out that my husband has taken out credit cards in our children's name. He racked up significant amount of debt and emptied his retirement account to pay it off. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that that's true because now he wants me to sign paperwork. It absolves him from any wrongdoing regarding our kids. No good. Not happening. Your husband is scum. Anybody that was scru his own kids over is scum. I mean, who takes out that's just absolutely the, I mean, to start with identity theft is illegal. It's criminal fraud. Okay. So your husband is a criminal. Oh, and who do you steal from his children? What a jerk. No, I am not signing any paperwork except paperwork puts him in jail. That's paperwork. We're signing on him. So now go talk to your lawyer, darling. And tell your lawyer to send him back a little note that says, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, you got to be kidding me. You're saying, oh, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, but it's laugh out loud. You go, okay, so you have got to be kidding me. Oh, yeah. And you can freeze your kids. Yes, you can. Which is what you should do. You can poke kids credit reports and you can freeze them. We know this because we did it when Rachel was saying, when they first started allowing freezing, Rachel was still a minor and all of our children entered their adult life with a frozen credit report. Nothing had ever been on it. We know our kids too. Nothing could get on it. Well, and you do it too to protect them from ID theft just in general, like with their internet, you know, the internet and the frauds. You need to freeze it because their father is scum. Okay. Well, that's it. And that will keep him from, if they actually check the credit before they issue the credit card, they won't issue it. If it's frozen next time you trust me, because there will be a next time. This guy is a serious con artist. Sorry. Man. Okay. This is the list of the garbage. He keeps telling me it's not possible to put credit reports on the kids, but I don't believe that's true. So here's, let me help you with this. Anything this guy says is not true. If his mouth is moving, he's lining. This is a guy who would steal his own children's identity for his own personal benefit. So nothing that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. So the only thing that can be trusted are the actual facts and the behavior, not the verbal wishes. So no, you can pull credit reports on your kids. You can freeze credit reports on your kids. I have done it. And I would to make sure, I mean, if he says he paid it off, who knows? You know, so I would pull those credit reports to see what the status is for your kids. I would follow criminal on him. I'd have the police. I'd set him up and say, hey, somebody stole my kids, stole my kids identity. Oh, it was him. Absolutely. And then let him figure that one out. Definitely. So because I don't want this guy near them again. This is unbelievable. Carlo is in Miami. Hey, Carlo, what's up? Hi, hope all you doing are well. We are. I wanted to ask your opinion, my mom in February, late February, she passed away from her tenure cancer battle. I'm sorry. And I appreciate it. And in her passing, big family squabbles with the scraps left behind, long story short, I have $110,000 sitting in my bank account. My wife and I tomorrow are going to go get a biopsy for her. They think she possibly might have cancer. And her father that lives with us, his cancer came back and we're dealing with that. So yeah, it's been a rough 2025, but we're still blessed to be here and making decisions and trying to make things better. So my wife, I assume you and your wife have health insurance. Yes, sir. Yes, she works for medical field. Those are father health insurance. Yes, sir. Okay. So my biggest dilemma is this. I've always been a saver. I leave on baby seven or five, not six. We're doing rather well. We just turned 40 this year. And I'm trying to balance keeping funds in the reserve for if things go south and living life now. We had a hard time with that with my mother. You know, traveling with her at the end was very difficult, but we made it happen and we made our memories. Okay. I'm sorry, what an amazing amount of challenges. I would just throw that in a high yield savings account for six months. In six months, you're going to have a lot more information on both of these situations. Okay. How expensive a fight if we got how long a fight if we got and how much are we going to look at alternative solutions that met that our insurance won't cover. Okay. And that would be true in either case, but certainly true in your wife's case, right? And then with her dad, does he have money and how much is he going to, you know, above it, above it? He is out of pocket after insurance. And then is he going to try or do anything other than that that is going to be expensive? Okay. Well, he doesn't have much. He lives with us. We have in-laws quarters. And he has Medicare and Medicaid. So most of all of the treatments have been, you know, covered from that. Yeah. It's just, you know, I want to do right by him. He's been a workhorse much like my mother. It's all life working. Yeah, but I don't think that I don't think you're going to have a hundred thousand dollars of medical bills with him. No, no, no, not absolutely not. Okay. So I don't know what the future holds. So, you know, I have the monies right now in a Schwab account. I could put that in the high yield savings. Yeah. I just put in high yield savings. And just forget it's there. It's just sitting there. And then as soon as you actually quantify these situations a little bit in terms of how long is this going to, how long we going to be in this fight? And what's the actual out of pocket expense from these two different fights? Then that tells you if you can invest and begin to do some other things with some of that money. Well, let's pretend that it's a minor issue with your wife. Okay. And it's, and it's nothing. We're done. Six months from now it's way in the rear view mirror. The Bob C. West, but nine, no problems, no issue. We're done. Okay. We had a few hundred dollars and deductibles or whatever. Some copays were done. Then you don't have to worry about this hundred K for that purpose. I'm not going to leave it around for vague worries. But I'm going to leave it around for specific worries. Well, one of the reasons why I've left it there and that account also is she's attempting to do a career change, which is drastically going to change her income. She currently makes about a hundred thousand dollars a year and her career change could drop us about thirty thousand dollars a year. So it's a pretty big shortfall that can you not live on what you make? Well, in Miami, it's a little, can you not live on what you make with her career change? Yes. If you can't, she doesn't need to do the career change. Yeah. I mean, it is a luxury and she wants to do it to be home more. Luxury is fine, but can you, if you can't live on it, you can't do it. Yeah. Because if you got to feed your household thirty thousand dollars a year in three years, this money's gone and then you're screwed. You got to burn rate on this man. So you don't create sustainability from savings. So that's a completely different subject than you called with. But yeah, you've got to, you've got to create a budget that you guys can live on. So if you can afford to live on without touching this money, her career change, she can do it. If she can't, if you can't, she can't do it. Or you guys change lifestyles completely? You got to change something. Yeah, but there's hundred thousand, I'm going to save you on that. Not even going to come close. So no, that won't work. But having it set aside to make sure you turn the corner on some cancer diagnosis until you turn the corner, I'll let it sit there. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. 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Home buyer edge and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. And MSID 1591 in MSconsumerexas.org. Eagle Housing Lender. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author. Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. My co-host is in Mississippi. Hi, Nicole. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm having a bit of a dilemma, excuse me, I'm a little nervous. My fiance and I, we get married next week on Friday. Congratulations. So we are. Yes, very soon. We are excited about that. But I am still in the mindset of my debt, his debt sort of thing. My dilemma is I'm having a dilemma with using my $800. I'm on baby step one to throw at my credit card that I am behind on. And my minimum is half of my take home pay. So it's half of what I'm making a month. That's what my minimum is. So what is your minimum? That's 2734. What do you owe on this credit card? $13,000. And you have a $2,700 payment on $13,000? Yes, I fell behind for a few months. And then there's just interest added on and it's becoming unbearable. Oh, that's not the normal minimum payment. It's all the back payments. Yes. It's normally around 300 or 400. That sounds more like it. So you bring home $5,000, $6,000 a month? About $5,000. And you're getting married and he has how much debt? He has about 40. And you only have 13 or you have a car and everything else or what? So together we have about $79,000 worth of debt. Okay, which means you have another 20 something other than this 13 on one. It's personal loans. I owe a family member. It's a various of other things. Okay. And so your household income is about $80, right? Your income and what's his? So my income is about, like I said, that's $5,000 and his is about the same a month as well. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that's $120,000 take home pay and so you're probably making $150 or so. Okay. All right. And we need to pay off 80 overall. So really you don't really have a minimum payment of $2,700. You have a single payment of $2,700 to get current. Okay. Right? Because the next month it won't be $2,700 to be $300. Well, if I don't pay on it, if I don't get caught up on it. No, if you pay $2,700, the next month your payment will be $300. Yes. That's correct. That's what I'm saying. Okay. So what I would do is just call a credit card company and ask them to roll that in and reset your payment. Well I called them. I don't have a problem saying their name is capital one. I call them and they said that there's nothing that they can do. Okay. And then there's nothing I can do. You're not going to get paid. How's that? You get nothing honey if you don't work with me because I got no money. I can't pay you $2,700. I can pay you $300 if you want to reset the payment. That's fine. Probably I need to talk to your supervisor because apparently your two brain cells aren't rubbing together. This is how you talk to capital one. What's in your wallet? Stupid. You know, I mean, come on. Of course they can roll that in. They do it every day all day long. But you got some junior bird man on the phone up there in a cubicle. Right? And so you got to nail them. That's what you have to do. And then catch them up anyway because you got to get the whole stupid thing paid off. And remember how they treated you the next time you get rid of whip out that card or do any business with this company? Oh no. I've done. I have a problem with you. It's a stupid thing up and let them know that we're done. We're breaking up here. You aren't all you were cut out to be. I don't care which particular movie star says it gives me financial advice on your stupid commercials. Oh, it would hurt me to close it. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You close or not. You still got exactly the same problem. So. That's true. You know, here's what you I just call and mess with them and just you know be be start out. You got your nice Nicole. You got to kind of high pop your you know, high pop your stuff before you go and then end up nasty but we get off. Yeah. Get ready to dial the nasty up pretty quick as you're on the phone if their brains aren't working because sometimes apparently they aren't. And so you know, now then the trick is it doesn't matter because in the end of just a few months, you're going to have a zero balance on this because you're going to get paid off. Because you make $120,000 after you get married and you only to clean this $80,000 up fast and one of the first orders of businesses, the credit card because it's probably one of the smallest debts you all have. Right? Yes. So we're going to list that in the debt snowball smallest to largest and I'm going to pound their face in and it's going to sound like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month regardless of what their minimum payment is. I want you more ones out of my life forever. Okay? And I'm teaching you to be a little bit angry about this because that's a good thing. That'll push you through this and cause you to just pound their face in with the math as you're doing your budget. You're going to take that capital one, take that capital one, take that capital one, 30 years ago, 35 years ago, American Express called Sharon and ask her why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And I'm still pissed. 35 years later, I'm still pissed. I would still find that guy if I could find him. You know, cause she called me crying at work like I think in the same thing. Right? And so, oh my God, these guys, they're just ridiculous companies. And Nicole, for you and your husband, I mean, make this a year, the first year of marriage that you did. And you guys are working extra at night. Like, I mean, you're just, you're high five in in the middle of the night because you don't see each other. I mean, like, make it really be done with it. Like get really, really aggressive with this. And then it's done forever. And then for the rest of your marriage, you guys have no debt. You have your whole income, no stress. It's a beautiful thing. And so the more intense you guys can be in this first year. And if you guys want kids later, even before the kids, like this is, this is the time to do it. If you don't pay them 2700 and you pay them 2100 because they're your first thing on your debt snowball. And that's all you squeeze out of the first month's budget. Or a thousand. I mean, whatever you pay them, whatever you pay them, I don't care. Then the next month, you pay them a bunch more and the next month, you pay them a bunch more. I don't really care what they think. It's irrelevant. Just pound their half pound. Well, it sucks as the is the interest, right? You get 26% on this amount. You know, it's 22. It's on the whole thing. I know. It's on the whole 13,000. Yes, true. Period. It doesn't matter. You get paid off. But that credit card. Get it knocked out. What's in your wallet? Good. Money now because I don't have you people in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man, I tell you what, I spent the first part of my career doing a dumb thing. I would bring in people we were coaching and I would call and negotiate with the credit card companies and set payment plans for the people we were coaching. And it taught me to hate credit card companies because they're so moronic and I'm still, it still rings in my brain. And just the, I, because I just know the conversation she had, it's just pisses me off still. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. 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That's pre-born.com slash Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host, open phones at triple eight, 8255-225. Peter's in Toronto, Ontario. I betar, how are you? I good, thank you. How can I help? So my question is, I recently inherited some money from my father who passed away and it's enough money to pay off the mortgage on the house. And my question is whether I should do that or invest the money in investments like in Canada, it's not an IRA, it's an RRSP. And things like that. We do have, I have two children. I'm married. I'm 60. My wife is 55. We have 11-year-old twins. And so we do have a college account for them. We have an investment fund for them as well. But so there's only enough money to either pay off the mortgage or not. The wrinkle in the question is, you know, the pre-born, my wife is a compulsive shopper. So we've been married 60 years and we've gone to counseling on this issue a number of times. And you know, she promises the change and the stop and it doesn't change. My wife's parents are not wealthy but they were comfortable in middle class. They were very wise with their money. So when we got married, they actually bought the house as a gift for us that we live in. It's in my wife's name alone. I didn't realize how much credit card debt she had wrapped up and it was in the hundreds of thousands. So we ended up having to get a mortgage on the house to pay off the credit card debt. And that mortgage is in both of our names. The, you know, the, we're paying right now. It's a adjustable rate mortgage where at 8.34% the bank is saying that they're going to raise the rate soon. You know, like money wise, it is kind of paycheck to paycheck. So paying off the debt at the mortgage. So let me get this straight. If you take your inheritance from your father and pay off the mortgage from your wife's compulsive spending in a house that's in her name. Yes, but the mortgage is in both of our names. I know, but now the house is free and clear and it's not in your name. Yes. That doesn't end well. I'm not worried about that. Why? Well, a few reasons. One, our marriage is strong. When, when was your marriage? Your wife is a compulsive shopper, runs up $100,000. How do you call that a strong marriage? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So no, I'm not paying off someone else's house who has an addiction. Yeah. How easy is it to get your name on the deed? I'm just curious. That doesn't fix her issues, but I'm just from an asset perspective. Well, she could, you know, with her permission to add my name to the deed. I am not, I'm not the kind of person who fights over money. And I wasn't asking you to fight over money. I was asking you to be wise. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. I love the parents very, very much. And by the way, her parents are actually like- That has nothing to do with it. Yeah. Well, I would feel, you know, they- Peter, you guys are married. You guys are married. Okay. So if you're going to share in assets and share paying off her debt, you have just of a right to have your name on the assets of your marriage. It's not- It's not- You're not being greedy in that sense. Unloving act towards her. No. Wait, we're paying off her debt. When you're dead, she ran it up. Yeah. Okay. I mean, her argument would be that it was for necessities for the house. The thing is she overbought. So, you know, like children's clothing, our kids had $100,000. $100,000. Yeah. Dozens and dozens of shirts and pants and, you know, stuff like that. Right. And we can probably nitpick if it was right or wrong, but a hundred grand. I mean, that's- That's an obvious crazy number. I mean, that's wild. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, it was under the cloak of darkness. You didn't know it had- Yeah, it was hidden. So Peter, I want to go back to this. I didn't realize, yeah, I didn't realize- Like I saw stuff coming in, but I have like- Do you guys- I never had that. Okay. Besides that- I never had that. Okay. Besides that, that card specifically or that whole $100,000. And general, or do you guys talk about money or do you all have a budget together? Like do you kind of- Do you know what's going on? Or does she just handle the money? How does it work in your marriage? So she has always handles the money. Okay. And before our marriage, I never had credit card debt. You know, like once in my life when I was very young in my 20s, I paid off- Do you have access Peter to your accounts? Like do you check in on the accounts and kind of a pulse of what's going on at all? No, I do. I'm going to- Now that our kids are a bit- When the kids were young, like we were barely getting any sleep and- You know, with both of us working full-time- Okay. We were exhausted, but now that the kids are more self-sufficient- Yep. I feel like I have the time now that I can start- I'm banning with- Okay, because that's what I- That's my encouragement to you, because we find this so often that one spouse in the marriage takes the weight of the money. They're the ones that pay everything, know everything, do everything. And to a degree, that spouse has so much pressure and responsibility and it's very isolating. And that's been your wife. Now I'm not justifying at all her stuff of 100 grand of going into credit card debt and you're not knowing all of it. But also you didn't know because you don't know what's going on. So Peter, I- You don't know how- You need to step up in this and sit down and be a team together and you're a very kind person. But when you said I'm not the kind of person that fights with money, these are the fights you need to have because your marriage needs a level of unity and a level of agreement that is so- That is so deep that you guys are on such a level of vulnerability and honesty that it may come up- There may be some fights and that's okay. Conflict is okay. And this is an area of your marriage. You need to be fighting about Peter and not- Not being irrational and angry and hurtful. But man, you need to step in with this. Yes, Peter. You really, I mean, she may feel very alone in it and she acts out for whatever reason in this way. But just I'm just saying, you need to step in and I would say that to any caller when it comes to marriage. You guys need to be more of a team and that's going to be- That's the exact reason you want to push into this because it's going to create a better marriage. You're really well. It's going to not be fun at first because you're going to be- You guys are going to be maybe back and forth with stuff. But that's what creates a level of intimacy because you're doing it together. So in Abelers, people who psychologists or therapists label as an enabler, as I've worked with them over the years, they're the nicest, sweetest people. They don't want to cause a ripple. They don't want conflict. They want everybody to be happy. The irony is that it's the most hurtful thing that you can do to not cause the conflict because the conflict is where healing comes from. And again, not a raging, angry conflict, but a conflict based on strength and wisdom. And so what you're thinking about doing is just trying to hide this lump under the rug again by paying off the mortgage, leaving it at her name, which is absolutely ridiculous. That's just nuts. With what you've described here. And you think then it's all going to be okay. If you just keep being nice, it's all going to be okay. If I keep being nice, it's going to be okay. I love her mom and dad. They're sweet people. I wouldn't want to hurt them. If I keep being nice, it's all going to be okay. And dude, it's a classic. It's a classic case study. And so you've confused nice by being so nice you've actually caused harm. And you didn't mean to. You would never cause harm intentionally. But I want you to be the surgeon that cuts so that there's healing. A little hurt so that there's healing. A little conflict so that there's healing. You don't pull the splinter out. It's going to fester. Thank you for joining us America. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Rachel Krueck, is Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. The boy in Iowa is next. Julia is with us. I Julia, how are you? I'm David and Rachel Harrier. Great. How can we help? Well, I have been working the baby steps plan for about nine years. And as of last year, we hit step seven. Congratulations. Thank you. We're a mortgage free. We're debt free, everything. We are looking for mentorship and being outrageously generous. And I was just wondering if you had any book recommendations or how we do that. We tied. But above and beyond that, we're just looking for a little bit of mentorship. Good for you. Well done. That's a great question. So I'll just tell you what we do, Julia. I don't know if this is helpful at all. And I think there are some books out there, I think, when it comes to this idea of being generous. But, you know, from like a tactical standpoint above the tithe, how when's an idea? There are organizations that we align with and ones that are close to our heart, meaning like there's one organization we've given to for 15 years because it was an integral part of our story and we really believe in what they do. So we give there. There's been elements of different times in life where like, you know, foster care has been big on my heart and we've given to things towards that or Winston's had things. So from the organizational standpoint, it is always fun to be able to support someone who's doing what you love and what you believe in. So we've done it that way. And then this year, in January, we're doing something different. We're just adding in on the giving section of our EverDollar app. We are putting, we put a, an amount of money every single month and we're forcing us. We're forcing each other. We're holding each other accountable to have that money be given away at some point in the month. So that could mean like a very generous tip could be part of that money. It could go towards if we hear something of, you know, a friend's family member, X, Y and Z and we're able to kind of just like anonymously give some money there. So we have found more energy in that, honestly, because the organization giving is wonderful. And it's a, you know, it's great. People just do incredible things. And with the Ramsey Foundation that we as a bigger Ramsey family are involved in, there's incredible organizations. But there's something about this joy for me of seeing someone or intersecting your story with someone else and able to help kind of in the moment there. And again, it could be anonymous or not. But giving room for those things to occur and what that's done for me, Julia, is it's caused me in an everyday instance just to be looking and I'm more aware of people because I'm like, okay, we have this money that I want to give. And like, and I do as a believer, I'm like, there's something spiritual about it where I'm like, okay, where's the Holy Spirit kind of nudging me here? And I've just found with giving for, when you're, when you have a pulse on that and you're just interacting with that part of your soul, if you will, it just creates a richer life where I feel like before we were a little bit tactical with our giving, like we gave our tithe and we'd give to an organization. But there's something about interacting with individuals on a day to day basis that again, just that that's one element, one way to give. And I've enjoyed that. I mean, we're only in February. It's only been two months of it. But there's, I don't know, there's just like this warmth to life there. It came alive again for us because sadly, giving can get stale if you just have it on autopilot, right? So like part of this is interacting with the money you're giving to. So that's, that's what Winston and I do. But Dave and Dave and Sharon do it on a larger scale. Well, but it's still, it's the same. We budget a certain amount just for, and some of this we keep on the books and some of it we don't worry about as far as tax return goes, but just random exochentious. We just run into somebody and we want to always look across the restaurant and pick up the tab for a person in uniform. We always want to do that. We always want to catch somebody doing something we love and just participate in that kind of stuff. That's just, that's low budget. It doesn't take a lot of money. But it's, there's a lot of joy and it's a lot of fun. Yes, yes. And just, you know, our look across the NC one of our team members and is there with their spouse and we just end up picking up, of course, I charge that back to the company, but that's an HR thing. But yeah, I may buy their dinner if they're lucky enough to land in the same restaurant I'm land in. But anyway, just something like that, just catch people doing something right and and random exochentious just catch somebody that, you know, where a few hundred dollars means a lot. And I've been in those situations and a lot of people out there have been. So you want to do that, but that's a smaller portion of dollars, but it's like Rachel said, it's very hands on it's a lot of joy in it. Random exochentious we call it that. And it's just got money floating around looking for a place to land. And so then we with the Ramsey Family Foundation, we do not give to like a bazillion different people, five hundred dollars, because that'll drive you nuts doing the tax returns on it. So instead, we pick just a few and really, really help them. And there always something that is close to our heart. And many times we know the people involved in the ministry. We know the character of the people involved. And the last thing I'll add to that that Rachel didn't bring up is that I learned many years ago because I was giving a lot. And we've always been outrageously generous. It's part of our DNA. And it's the most fun you'll have with money. So you're going to love this. I love this question. But anyway, I treat large gifts like we're talking about as if I was doing an investment into a company. But I'm going to buy into that company. I'm going to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. And I'm going to make sure that I'm not participating. I'm not enabling, you know, incompetence or bad behavior of some kind. To the extent I can tell, we don't do that. So for instance, we don't give to organizations, ministries that run debt. Well done. Of course, Dave Ramsey is not going to pay a bank through a ministry. No. If you're going to run debt, you're not going to be on our list of donations. We don't believe in debt. We don't borrow money. We teach people not how dumb would it be for us to take our generosity and give it to a bank through your ministry because you wanted to have a building for your ministry instead of being a renter. No, be a renter. So that's one of the things. And that upsets people sometimes. But oh well, I don't know why it's kind of obvious to me. But anyway, so we do stuff that is consistent with us. And we're looking for their operational excellence because if you're going to put X number dollars in there, you're investing it, God's money into God's kingdom, God expects some excellence there. Just like, you know, that was their faithful and little things. They'll be given more to manage. And so it's not the diligent prosper, not the inept and incompetent. Yeah. And then I would also say Julia, and something I feel like we've learned from you guys is as you guys go down this path, I know you're on baby steps. You just guys just got to baby step seven. But as you continue to build wealth and I'm talking in the next decade or two, also with your giving, we've put ourselves in a position where we're not the largest giver, meaning that they are so dependent upon us to fund the ministry or what they're doing. Because that puts you kind of in these handcuffed positions where you feel bad that if something changes and you're like, oh, yeah, we're going to give over here. Then you feel like we feel like we can't because we're disrupting such a huge part of their operating budget. And if it weren't for us, they wouldn't be here. So even from a percentage level, I would not want to be the largest donation that they get and that they're dependent upon you to continue their ministry. Like that just puts a, it puts a weird dynamic and pressure element to that too. So that's something to think about that. We had some friends that they ran into that and it was, it gets messy. If you want to stop it, then you're like, oh, my gosh, am I closing down a ministry because I've been choosing not to give here anymore. So it's just another filter to think through. If you'll do what you're doing right now and be intentional about the subject of generosity, like you're intentional about the subject of getting out of debt or you're intentional about the subject of investing, you'll do really good at it and you're going to get great joy from it. What happens with some people when they get to generosity, they just go, oh, I'm just going to give it. And it's up to God to figure it out. And like, no, no, God gave it to you to manage. And so it's not up to God to figure it out. So I think that person is going to misuse the money, but it's going to be between them and God. No, that's not how it works. You need to be grown up. You can't be lazy on the generosity and really hardcore on the investing. So again, you don't want to take the joy out of it and you don't want to turn into a bureaucratic nightmare every time you give $2. And that's why I like, you know, this setup of having kind of those three buckets, the tithe, the organization, all that you know. And then just a little bit of that mind that we're talking about that you just have throughout the month that you're like, I just am going to be aware of people around me. And when I feel this prompting, like, I get to bless them in that moment. It's kind of those three buckets that I know. That one ends up being dollar for dollar by far my favorite. Oh, it is like, but it's impossible to do that at scale as an individual. It's very hard to be like your full time job. That's all you did. You'd be like that guy on YouTube. That's a great job. And give him right money. I mean, that'd be neat. But yeah, I hadn't got that job yet. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey trusted tax pro. They know the tax code inside now, so you don't have to. And they can help you file when tax season rolls around. Get a trusted tax pro by going to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones that triplate 825-5225. James, do you have the numbers on what that thing this video did on social? I don't know them off. There's millions of millions, but I don't want to super exaggerate. It might have been 10 million. Now I've taught my habit. Look, okay, if you get it, that'd be great. So our social media team goes back through the archives of this show and they found a talk I recall. I took, gosh, it had to be before 2019 because it was in the old studios. We've been in this building since 2019. And I can tell by the background, obviously, in the video. And they posted a clip of it. Sometimes we around here are a little bit caught off guard by, we may post 10 clips. One of them will have million views and one of them will have 40 million views or something. And so on Instagram, I've got about 5 million people on Instagram or something like that. And so you find it? 5.8 million on Instagram. We're looking at others. 5.8 million this thing viewed on Instagram when they posted it. We don't understand sometimes why these, why some of them take off and you guys are so response to some of them and other ones just that we think are really cool. Don't take off. Anyway, this thing blew up. So we're going to play it and then Rachel's going to tell us why it blew up. Now I'm careful. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. All right, watch careful then. Here we go. I have 35 credit cards. Okay, are you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess? It's going to leave us with Harley and you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess? Yes, I am. What about your husband? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, all right. And the two of you need to sit down together, go on every dollar.com and do your budget tonight. Okay. And download it to your iPhone or your Android or your desktop. It's free. Check comes in, all the money goes out and then you're broke and you can't figure out how to go to the grocery store. Yes, exactly. You're not living by any kind of plan. This money is owning you. You don't own it. You've got to get the other side of it and the budget helps you do that. You're telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And then you and your husband are in agreement. We're going to sacrifice deeply because I am so sick of living like this. And when you get sick and tired of sick and tired, you're ready to change your life, kiddo. Yes. You can do it and you call me back if you need help, okay? Okay, thank you Dave. It sounds like a call I've done 5,000 times. Well, 35, maybe that was it though. 35 credit cards. Yeah, but I mean, it's a lot. But yeah, it's it's a George Costanza wallet, right? I mean, you know, I don't know what that means. On sign field, George had a wallet. It was six inches thick. Signed fields. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay, I know. I'm friends. I'm friends versus sign failed. Sorry. But no, I mean, I don't know either. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why it's probably 35. I mean, it's probably 35,000 dollars and everything you said in there though is all true. You want to be the one controlling your money, not your money controlling you. You actually want to be able to have a say. You're exhausted of how you've been living. I mean, it's it is all of that pent up tension when it comes to feeling lost and hopeless with money, right? I mean, it's it's the exact pain points. So many people feel. So you reach the point of being sick and tired and being sick and tired and less brown and a great motivator and said it a thousand times. Always said you finally say that's it. I've had it. That's what I was asking her. Mm-hmm. Challenger, are you ready? Yeah. Because you've got, because change is painful. Doing something you've never done before is scary. Yep. It's frustrating. It's painful. But you're going to keep getting what you've been getting unless you change the mix. If you keep making a cake and it's strawberry and you want chocolate, you should change the recipe. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't be surprised. It's chocolate again. Who knew? I'm stupid cake. You made the same stupid recipe. So you keep doing that in your life. It's the same thing. And so if I keep eating what I've been eating, my body's going to continue to look exactly like this. Well, any, any level of gross and I'm thinking, you know, relationally, financially, physically, like any of that. So I mean, all of it, there's a level of change that is so uncomfortable, but you have to be uncomfortable to grow. If you keep saying where you, you know what I mean, how you've been, you're going to, there's no pain involved because there's no friction. It's just, you're just doing the same thing over and over again, right? So when you are changing, it's going to be uncomfortable and there's going to be some pain, but that means that you're growing. You're growing in an area of your life and you're not stagnant. It's not, it's not change. The pain is not for nothing. It's transformation. Yep. It's the, the, the strain of the caterpillar pushing out of the cocoon allows it to become a butterfly. It's transformation. It's not accidental. And so you can count on you becoming the next awesome version of you hurting. It's going to be painful at times. You know, no discipline seems pleasant at the time. The Bible says, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but ding, ding, ding, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. So no, you know, no time, you know, you and Weston got the whole family doing cold plunges. At no point in doing a cold plunge is this fun. Yeah, we put the little babies in there too. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, but I mean, you got, you got, you got, at no point, yeah, is this fun. Yeah. But the result is inflammation is down all these other things and, you know, the result is it's, you know, you pay a price to get better. And that price is the pain of change. And until you have enough pain where you are today, you will not walk towards the pain of change. The pain of today can be just simple to simply disgusted with myself or it could be I'm about to get foreclosed on. I mean, the pain of today can be a lot of different kinds of pain, but you can, you can manifest pain today. You can just get sick and tired of being sick and tired. That's right. Yeah. And then you go, okay, 35 credit cards. I'm broke. I look like I'm in Congress. I'm not living like this anymore. And then giving her a tool every dollar, I think people are, they're, they're, they're needing something to help them in this, in this world of money. They're needing a tool. They're needing something to assist them because it is, it's hard to do it on your own, right? I mean, I have a trainer to help, you know, with working out, you have, you have areas of your life that you get advice from and you have experts to help you. And now in the world of technology, you're able to, in a great way, you know, have an app on your phone that is guiding you just as Wednesday night. We sat down two nights ago and did our August budget on every dollar. So I'm like, to have something assist you in it is such a gift you guys. So the every dollar budget, it's that if you go to every dollar.com and create your first budget for free and start actually doing this. That's a gift in a self of having a tool come alongside you as well. Yeah. But then you have to do it. I got to what you wrote down. And if you wrote down something that's different than you the way you used to live and it says, okay, we're not going to spend anything on restaurants this month and we've been living at restaurants prior. That's a big change. That's right. Yep. And you know, it'll be about 30 minutes before that little devil on your shoulders says Chick-fil-A. No, the devil, the devil would not say Chick-fil-A. That's Jesus chicken. But he might say, he might say chipotle. I say chipotle. I say chipotle. Yeah. I don't know what would the devil say. There's going to be some kind of little thing reminding you. Taco Bell. Taco Bell. That's definitely the devil. No question. That's the devil. Yeah. Okay. So, oh my gosh. Anyway, whatever it is, you go, okay, there's what's the temptation. You know, you just watched those cartoons when you're a little kid with Fred Flintstone and he would have a little devil on one shoulder, a little angel on the other shoulder, right? Whispering. And what's the temptation? Somebody's going to try to drag you back to your land of stupid that you're trying to leave, even though you have a road map with your every dollar budget on how to leave the land of stupid. Drive on, boy. Drive on. Get through. Get through. Push through. Get through. It will country song if you're going through hell. Keep going. You know, keep going. There's nothing on there that says, Delaney talks about that. If you're going through a hard time, the fastest way through a hard time is straight into it. Not trying to back up, not trying to run around it, not trying to avoid it, run right straight through it. And that's true of change. That's true of transformation. And that's why we teach you that snowball because you get out of debt fast. We want you to lean in with intensity. And this is why the every dollar system works. So I guess that's what that was. I don't know. I, it is a bit of a mystery. I was waiting for something so profound. I'm just kidding. Yeah, really. It's a bit of a mystery to me that the things I've said like 80,000 times occasionally go viral and other times they're just flattered. And it could be the 35 credit cards. That might have been 10. That was a good opener. It's a good teaser. Yeah. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Preorder now for 2499 and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Farrow Ends Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz. Ramsey Personality Number One bestselling author is my co-host today and my daughter. Open phones at AAA 825-5225. Brittany's in Los Angeles. Hi Brittany, how are you? Hi Dave, hi Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. I am in a bit of a pickle right now. I bought a house a year ago and I am in a bit of a financial rut. So I'm wondering if I should sell my house or if I should put it up for rent sales. Is this your primary home Brittany? Yes, no. It's kind of complex. I did buy it as a primary. However, I did have to use kids too. Well, the thing was to live in it, but also I was going to air be and beat it because I do work in LA, but I don't live there. My house is in the mountains, it's a cabin in the mountains. So when I decided to buy a home, I asked my mother to help me and she had the cabin up here. I should also prefer this, I think I also do have another cabin, but I own that one with my dad and he pays 100% for that one. I haven't had to put a dime into it. Upon getting it in post, it's been about two years. So I was able to qualify for one of my own because of that. I had the intent of getting the house as an Airbnb whenever I'm not here. My mom's Airbnb was doing phenomenal, but I came in at the absolute worst time. When the market started, dropping was earlier this year. It was pretty much right after election and I got my permit in about February. So I think I heard you say in the last few minutes, I wish I hadn't done this. Did I hear you say that? Did I hear you say that? Okay, so what's the cabin worth? What's the cabin worth? So the cabin is worth 360. What I bought it for. Good, and what do you owe against it? I owe about 350. That was 350. Okay, so you put almost nothing down. I did put my down, but the interest told that that when I put it down, it was like 360 at the time. So you didn't put much down. No. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So you don't have a lot of equity. So I'm not even sure if you sell it, you might not even break even. Agreed? That's agreed, yeah. Yeah. Have you thought about putting it up for sale? I have a, a wheelchair actually going to come over tomorrow morning because I put a lot of work into the home. So when it got a praise, one of the things I was known, it was the fact that it hadn't been touched. The house was built in 1978. Most of the cabins up here are very old. So if you've done all this work to it, why is it not going up in value? Well, I'm going to get the comp tomorrow. Oh, so you don't know what it's worth right now? Okay. I don't know. I'm just going based off of what Zillow's saying. Like the more Zillow is not, don't use Zillow is truth. Okay. That's gross. Okay. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Let's pretend it's 400. Yeah. Let's pretend it's 400 and you can sell it and you sell it and your problems go away. Is there something wrong with this plan? Nothing's wrong with this plan. The only thing is, that's why I'm debating. I just don't know because I'm seeing. I follow houses on here on Zillow like religiously. Yeah. You need to go in. This is not a good addiction for you. It probably isn't. I like to see where houses are actually selling for versus what there are. You know, you can list it for what everyone listed for, but right now it's like not a buyer's market. So I'm very, I'm kind of stressed about that. I'm like, well, it could I actually really stress about keeping it too. That's true. Yeah. So listen, I think you need to really carefully define that what you did with this purchase, the way you did this purchase, the purpose you did this purchase for as a group, those set of ideas were bad. They did not bring you a good result. Because you're stressed behind on your bills, life's not good. Nothing turned out like it did in your little dream when you were surfing Zillow. Right? And so, yeah. So now you need to reset and go, if I'm going to do real estate, it has to be different than the way I did this, this sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Sell it. Yeah. Okay. Sell it. I want you to have your life back. I like you. Thank you. I want my life back too. I do a lot in my life and have a lot of hobbies. And obviously everything I've had to be put on hold because I'm barely keeping up. It's tough. It's stress-bretting. Yes. Dr. John's going to always says, solve for peace. What creates peace in my life? This is not bringing you peace. This is bringing you stress and harm and lack of sleep. Because you're stressed about all of it, right? So just why would you, I'm just curious from you, I, that there's a little bit of the hesitation. Why, why are you hesitant? She hasn't given up on the Airbnb Zillow surfing dream. No, actually, actually, I don't care for Airbnb. And I did say that after I got into it, it's like, it's something about it. And it's because most people will need to Airbnb. Obviously, that home is a secondary home. For me, I am here whenever it's not booked because like I said, I own a cabin with my dad for a minute away. So I don't have personal peer. I was kind of all over the place. My personal is at my mom's house. I have a bag here of things that I need. I love to answer Rachel's question. I got a lot going on. What's your hesitation? Yeah. Sell the stupid pension is that I bought the house and I felt very proud of myself. I was a young girl buying a house in health when it's really hard. And so I'm just stressed because I'm like, am I going to be able to do this again? I went through like weeks and downs to get it the first time. And it was really hard. Yeah, you took a lot of jumps and I did a lot of dances and ran around the barn three times and clicked your heels and finally got the house. And it ended up not being anything like you thought it was going to be. You forced a situation. I am proud of you for getting something done, but I was your age when I went broke because I did it wrong. You don't have to go completely broke. Thank God. You can just dump this thing and learn your lesson and go the way I did this, the set of assumptions I used to make this decision were wrong. In Brittany. Everybody makes mistakes. And yes, buying a home is a great thing and we want that. I think that's a smart decision in life. But that's not who you are. I feel like you're tying your identity to this decision that you've made. And for some reason, if you go back on that, it's like you're a failure or something. Like who you are, your net worth is not yourself worth. It's not, it doesn't equal who Brittany is. And so separating those things out and saying, this is who I am with a house or not with a nice car or not with a second home or not. Like you are who you are. And then all of these other things are additions in your life. We want to make sure that things that are additional in your life are blessing you and are good for you and not taking away. So this is, this may feel like a step back for you, but it's not. I think it's a learning idea. And you will buy a house again. I really do believe that Brittany, you will. But you just have to be smart about it. And just to be able to have the humility to say, yeah, this was not a smart decision right now. But it's not who you are. You're not a failure, right? And so you got to separate those two things. They feel very intertwined to me as you're speaking. Listen up guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off worse or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money. But I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free every dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead and you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take that control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at every dollar.com slash live stream. Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co-host number one bestselling author and my daughter. If you like what you're hearing here, we could use your help. You are our marketing plan. Spread the word on this show. Share the show. Click the share button. You can subscribe and you can follow and you can leave nice five star reviews and you can click the clip of the link out and make a copy of it and send it to your friend by email and go listen to this. This stuff's helping me with my life because that's what we're here for. And we need your help. We need to have more people that we're helping. That's what we're doing and thank you for those of you that have been doing that because our numbers are ridiculously up and we don't even have a stadium named after us like so far or something like that. It's you know, I don't know, sorry, the allergies are bad. But the yeah, that you're our marketing plan. We're not dropping 300 million on a stadium. You're it. So thank you. We're either helping you or we're not. And that's what we're here for. Thank you very much. Courtney is in Dallas. Hi, Courtney. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Nothing much. I was wondering if you guys could tell me what the benefit is of not using an escrow count to pay for home insurance and taxes. Two things. One, you get to keep the money all year and earn interest on it instead of it sitting in an account that's not interest-bearing until you pay your taxes and pay your insurance. So it crews interest. The second one is you don't screw up the accounting and mortgage companies notoriously screw up the accounting on escrow accounts and they get out of balance and there's an escrow shortage and then they raise your payment to make up the shortage or they just miscalculate something and you've got somebody that's the lowest common denominator running the calculation too many times. And when I used to own a bunch of property with debt back in the day, I would say as many as 40% of the accounts were screwed up. So I don't know if it's still that bad because I haven't had a mortgage in 30 plus years but I suspect it is still a problem. The benefit of using the escrow count is it's on autopilot. You don't have to think about it. And most people don't manage their money well enough and they end up not having the money to pay their taxes or not having the money to pay their insurance. It sneaks up on them like Christmas. Yeah and I know that some mortgage companies don't even give you the option sometimes they require you to use an escrow count. Correct. A typical conforming mortgage meaning if any may FHA or VA will require it because they want to make sure that the house they have a lien against doesn't burn or it isn't taken for taxes. Right. Okay. And so yeah you don't really have a choice. I personally if I were you I would just use the escrow count but I would stay on them to make sure it's the proper amount. Okay. How do you recommend staying on top of them? Well you just want to make sure that the amount being taken out of your payment for your payment is principal interest. If it has escrow it's taxes and insurance PITI and you want to make sure the amount being hailed out for taxes and insurance each month is one twelfth of the total of your taxes and insurance. It shouldn't be one it shouldn't be less than that because you're going to come up short and they're going to have a shortage because they're going to pay it either way. They don't want to get they don't want you be behind and then or there could be an overage let's say they're taking out more than they need to and so just make sure that the numbers are right and just look at it once a year and make sure they're not you know if your taxes and your insurance actually go up and they don't change the amount being withheld for it you're going to get behind right. Right. That's that's one of the ways you'd look at it so that's the kind of thing you're doing. So I would use the escrow if I were in that situation I don't recommend because I put everything on autopilot that I can just so you don't have to yeah so say everyone yeah even though it's not earning interest it's not much interest to matter it's okay yeah yeah and more people are going to screw it up by not saving up the money right the mortgage company is going to screw up the escrow can't that's probably true so yeah and we and we have a part of our website that talks all about this and all real estate at ramsysolutions.com slash real estate it's kind of our real estate home base because we just it's one topic when it comes to your money that we get so many questions so if you guys need more resources there's free stuff videos and articles and calls from the show there's so much there to help you in this in this topic of your money when it comes to your home. Yeah ramsysolutions.com slash real estate honestly it's the the what that portion of our site is massive because we so get we get so much a question on real estate and it's really it's really a nice resource to help you yeah for sure so good stuff good good question Courtney yes excellent excellent question Jerry is with us in Norfolk Virginia hi Jerry welcome to the ramsyshow hi thank you so I have my question I have a bunch of accounts I have a Charles Schwab brokerage account I have Charles Schwab IRA traditional and a Charles Schwab brokerage now I also about I also have a principal now principles the company my employer handles are 401 so I was looking at their website and it looks like they charged me about a hundred bucks a month to have that account right on the option yeah yeah I thought that was kind of high that's wrong um well that's what it says under fees you you have a 401k and they're charging with your company correct I'm a hospital and there's a 403 beer 401k 401k and they're charging you $100 a month $1200 a year actually $300 a quarter if you want to be specific but yeah basically a hundred yeah it says it right here plan administrative services 288.70 is that been deducted from your account or is your employer paying that I don't know I'm just looking at the website where it says plan fees so I'm assuming I'm paying it I'm not because you shouldn't be okay well that's the plus I would be very unusual as a matter of fact your employer shouldn't be paying that much per employee that's a synonym on a money yeah I kind of thought so yeah I don't pay anywhere near that I got 1200 employees with a 401k plan here no we've not even close to that I would fire those people in a heartbeat if they're charging me that okay how do I find out if I'm paying that they call HR yeah well I mean it can be a plan fee but the plan was an instituted by you is instituted by the employer so it's possible they're being charged that that's just ludicrous I I would call HR and I would call principal both and ask them okay just call call principal and go hey I got a 401k and I'm looking at the statement here and this feels like you know like you guys should be wearing a mask like your robbers no really that's just ridiculous what was your what was your question though Jerry your original question you called in so my question was that I now have the option of instead of the money going to principal to take care of it I can have it go to Charles Schwab which then I would have the hospital is allowing that yes yeah they I don't know if that's new or not but I was actually talking to them and they said if you want we can have it go to Charles Schwab account so I'm assuming it's some kind of lockdown type account but then I would have total control to buy cell or do whatever I want with it but that kind of scares me because at least with principal I have theoretically an expert looking after it versus me the amateur looking after it so my basically looking for your advice is the twelve hundred that I thought I was paying worth an expert looking at it no but you can get another expert you don't have to do this other thing okay I'm seriously confused I have no idea what the flip your company is doing because a 401 a company has a single 401k administrator if principal is their administrator they cannot send your 401k money to Schwab it's illegal they can't do it you have a single you can't have four different 401k companies at your company if there's no such thing it doesn't work okay so I absolutely have no idea what you're up against the only thing I can do is tell you to call one of our smart vester pros and see if they can unravel this for you just go to ramsysolutions.com and click on smart vester by the way they can help you if you're going to be doing side investing this is the ramsyshow the all new every dollar is here and now it's way more than just the world class budgeting app ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress on the ramsys plan with your money the average person finds thousands literally thousands of dollars in margin just the first 15 minutes of starting up start every dollar for free today get it in the app store or google play all right Jeremy and Deborah are with us on the debt free stage what's up hey hey Rachel welcome welcome hey guys how are y'all where do y'all live Charlotte North Carolina just over the hill well man well good to have y'all and if you're on the debt free stage it can only mean one thing you're debt free and how much of you paid off eighty five thousand six hundred and fourteen dollars very cool and how long did this take sixty two months good for you and your range of income during that five years uh 72 to 82 cool what do y'all do for a living we own a small business in charlotte doing a custom wind treatments oh very cool good for you what kind of debt was this eighty six thousand dollars it was our house day oh yeah oh yeah it has an eighty six thousand dollar mortgage right we have a look yeah we had what was left on our mortgage we had a little bit of a back story with our with ours we actually got out of debt consumer debt about ten years ago fall on your principles and then we went through a stage of infertility and ended up getting pregnant with our first daughter yay that we we unemportally lost her oh twenty four weeks um but we knew that we needed to stack money for her she we knew she was gonna have needs um so we put the house you know we paid the payments but we put some extra on the side yeah and uh in 2020 we were able to bring our first daughter home and then in 21 we were able to bring our son home yes yes oh it's much better and paying off a mortgage yes it was um and over that time we one day that we wanted to uh put them in really great school uh take care of them like we were gonna take care of their sister and uh we kind of had that money sit into the side and we had that left on our mortgage and we thought you know what let's just do it let's be weird people just pay it off yeah I will use the fact we don't have a mortgage to take care of the kiddos there you go exactly yes it is blessed us uh they're able to go to a private Christian school and you know little things like that that we wouldn't have been able to do yeah wow what's the house worth about 350,000 why to go very good you guys thank you stacking cash for this if you've been investing as well yep and how much is your retirement nest egg probably about 200,000 all right so over half million dollar net worth already way to go y'all and those thinking payments in the world how's that feel I don't know yet just having to make it amazing to me yeah make the last payment and had some major house problems so we had to deal with that of course we're able to write a check for it so yeah it's not really fully sank in yet but uh the next few months yeah yeah it's been a blessing to be able to do that and not go back in the debt you know to be able to take care of the house needs yes for sure yeah you know because a lot of people are call our show with that situation they have the 85 in investments or something non-retirement and like all but I'm making a good spread on you know yeah we're making good money would you say it's 100% worth it to just know that there is no mortgage at least 100% it's not more yes not more yeah we spoke with you and John last year at the money marriage and yes some some advice for us for the situation where we're in yes it helped us guide us to where we needed to do and one day we're just like no more right check just build that camp back up yeah love it yeah yeah so great you guys well done thank you it's good to see y'all again I'm glad you're back I know I thought it'd be back so fun come back on the Ramsey campus yeah thank you so now with all this you've been through you pay off the consumer debt you stack cash you fight the whole infertility battle which is an emotional roller coaster and the and then you turn around look up go stack a cash mortgage gone yep and so like three different major parts to this story almost timeline wise um what's your advice to people on what's this you know when you when we always ask people you know what do you tell people about what you do to get out of debt what was the key thing that enabled you to go through all three of those spaces um I would say um yeah we you have to have a team you have to be a team you have to be on the same page um because it could have easily tore us apart you know what we walked through and fertility wise and then losing our daughter that was very rough um but it almost fueled a piece of me that it didn't feel in him and and I was able to say you know what let's double down let's do this let's for our future for our future children and we're we're able to do that now and the feeling of knowing that we've changed our trajectory for our kids in their lives you can't get put money on that yeah you change your family tree exactly we say it all the time but it really doesn't mean something yes it does it does it really changes the back where you guys came from how you grew up do you look and think like that was that that we're you're standing today did that feel impossible 1000% for me yeah I had great role models as a kid yeah my dad was probably a Ramsey fan but he didn't know it until I until I met you and then you know then he was all on board because he's like that's how he lived his life and I yeah I tried you know but didn't get married make stupid decisions and you know pay lots of stupid tax on a lot of stuff you know and then just you know being able to turn that corner and and know about the you know future that we want to have in the possibilities and you know are endless what's the dumbest thing you ever did with money oh boy my family got like I just pick one the biggest one probably vehicles yeah okay yeah we bought that we had no yeah I bought a 2016 fully loaded off the Sherron floor maximum of 20 inch rims on it no money and I had no money to my name yeah and now you bought that in 2016 yeah yeah yeah 2016 yeah there wasn't now you invited the other day yeah no no yeah that's it you know since this whole journey we've we finance you know three pregnancies you know cash flow cash flow not finance yeah multiple vehicles in cash you know it's just yeah a whole reverse trend yes absolutely never go back well I just want I wasn't doing that to make fun of you I just want to remind people that you can do dumb things and not be dumb absolutely I have done some incredibly stupid things and I'm not stupid but I've done some stupid butt stuff in my life and so I look back on like you your man don't yeah but then you go but I don't have to live that way I can change right just the piece the piece that you get to how you know have foundation issues that your house that you you know all it's just a inconvenience like you say yep you have turns into from an emergency fund you know it's just you know to be able to pay for our kids school and yeah you know it not be a question so how old are the kids now five and three five and three so great oh were they kind of part of it was the five-year-old like funny enough she's she's she's learning yeah we have a school store at school so she's learning about the privilege of earning yeah being able to buy what she wants and we have the the the kids are the financial piece yes yes for her so we're working through that with her I love it sometimes you know five it goes in one year and a hundred percent I was gonna say because some kids you know people that are working the plan now they're listening yes they have kids at home and they're kind of you know part of that journey there's our obviously yeah they're younger but yeah but to think that they'll never know they'll never know parents with stress around money and and hope that it's a beautiful I'm to live the same hundred percent hundred percent thank you so much so good so proud of y'all who was cheering you on we got we got family these are friends we man the money marriage treat last year okay friends and they they said they drive up to meet us whenever we did it oh yes we've had family some here some not here anymore yeah wonderful well congratulations we're very proud of you Jeremy and Deborah Charlotte North Carolina 86 thousand dollars paid off house and everything yes they are official weirdos they did this in 62 months making 72 to 82 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're debt free you you know I you watch their body language you guys if you're not watching this on video you watch their body language Rachel and the way they're interacting the unity is a parent just in their presence so strong that they're they were they were knitted together by the so strong by the tragedies and by the victories and by the victories yes and pretty cool yeah pretty cool stuff if if Our Scripture of the day saw him 145, 16, and 17. You open your hand, you satisfy the desire of every living thing. The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. JK Rowling says, if you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals. He is with us in Seattle. Hi, Melody. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I just have a question about how to talk to my husband about credit cards because I've been listening to this show since June and I'm convinced I'm ready to cut up our cards, but he's not convinced yet. So I'm just wondering how I can talk to him about this without being too pushy. Yeah, what's his main pushback when you mention it? He likes to reward. That's his main thing. And I'll let the credit score, but he's mostly into the rewards. For sure. And why do you want to live without them? I can kind of tell the difference when I purchase things with the credit card versus my debit card. Like, you know, when I buy something with a debit card, I like have a mental thought. Like, this is coming directly from our bank account and I can feel the difference in how much I buy, I think, because of that. For sure. Do you guys have a lot of debt? Do you have credit card debt or do you pay it off every month? No. He's very detailed oriented. He pays off credit card consistently every month. And we were not in any debt. So. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, this comes down then to a values conversation. And I would be curious, Melody, for you, is it, you know, is there more in it for you than just, oh, yeah, I feel different when I spend with a debit card versus a credit card or is there an idea of autonomy not being more in control because you're spending your money, right? It's getting to that deeper why for you. And that's what I would, that's what I would lead with. And what makes you uncomfortable about it, what you don't like about it, and just having that conversation. Because I mean, yeah, I think that the truth is, is sharp people pay it off every month. That is a, that's a reality. But I think when you actually taste this world of, oh gosh, I don't owe anyone anything. And I actually use my money in the present. And I'm not waiting for a bill at the end of the month, right? Like it's just, there's a shift there. There's a piece there that I have in me that is so much greater than trying to chase after these rewards that end up not really being a ton, to be honest, you know. And so, um, I would also, that's the leading conversation I would have. I would also just pan back. I didn't get rid of my credit cards because I hated credit cards. I got rid of my credit cards because I hate debt. And so I would pan back and say, let's have a discussion not about credit cards, but about debt. Well, we don't, we don't, we don't go into debt. Okay. If we don't go into debt, um, why do we need a credit score? Is that credit score has one purpose and there's only one way to maintain it? And that is to run debt. The algorithm that develops a credit score, fair Isaac put this together as an organization. And the credit score is 100% of the algorithm has to do with your interfacing with debt. If you do not borrow money, your credit score will disappear. And if you're not going to borrow money, that's not a big deal. That's, you know, that's panning back from the credit card. And then that kind of does, then I don't need a credit card to maintain my credit score because my credit score is not an indication that you're doing good with money. It's an indication you've been playing kissy face with the bank a lot. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, the points are laughable because one, there's, you know, discover card gives 1% back. Well, let's run the numbers on that. If I run a hundred thousand dollars through my discover card, I get a thousand dollars. On what planet is that a method to become wealthy? Mm-hmm. That, that, that, that math is absurd. It's like saying, I'm going to go to Chuck E. Cheese and run up all the tickets I can run up to buy those, you know, 10 cent, 5 cent things. And it's cost me 86 dollars to get that 10 cent thing with those tickets at Chuck E. Cheese. That's what your points are. It's exactly how it works. And so, and, you know, we've done detailed studies of millionaires. We've never met one that said, you know, I became a millionaire because of my points. Right. So it's trading dollars for pennies and somehow feeling like I collected something, like I, like I beat them at their game. And so both of his objections are inaccurate when you get into the reality of them. And I would, and I would be curious, Melody, too, just to do an experiment and just say, hey, for five months, can we just use a debit card? And at the end, like, let's talk through what that is because there is a truth that when you live in debt and even if you pay off and pay it every single month and it doesn't feel like a big deal, the moment you step out of that cycle, something does psychologically change. Yeah, we had friends and, you know, they had car loans and, and they could, they made great money so they easily could afford it. It wasn't, you know, this like crazy stretch. But then they decided, yeah, the next car will just pay in cash and we talked, and they ended up, we talked at dinner and, and he was like, that's amazing. Like I didn't realize what big of a deal it was to just own my car. And I don't, I don't know why we didn't do this in the first place. So like, again, even if you can quote, unquote afford the bill at the end of the month, when you get out of that cycle, and you can get credit cards and do away with them as a testing those six months, if you don't like it, they'll, they'll give them back to you. Yeah. You can get more credit cards. You'll get 17 during that six months, right? I mean, it's like in the mail, unsolicited. And so, yeah, that, it's not like they're going to go away or something. So, but I, I think it's a bigger question, is my point than just credit card. I think the bigger question is, what is our goal here? And my, my take on it, and it's made a lot of people wealthy following that take is that your number one wealth building tool is your income. Don't give your income to someone in the form of debt payments and expect to become wealthy. And you all aren't using debt. And yet he's tinkering around and playing footsie with it as if he's somehow beating them at their game. And it just doesn't work out in the end. So, and MIT has done studies, others have done studies that when you spend cash, you spend 12 to 15% less than when you spend plastic. And I'm waiting for the research to come out. I guess we're going to have to go do it on the swiping your phone. Oh, when you say cash, you mean debit card. No, I mean cash. Debit card is a little less than a credit card, not a lot, but it's a little less. You spend a little less, but it's not 12 to 15. If you're, I'm talking about actual bingermans. Yeah. Because when you put, when you lay Uncle Benjamin Frank on the table, you have an outcheat moment. It's like, oh crap. That's like money and stuff. You pay cash for your groceries. You will get so pissed off about inflation you can't see. I mean, really, if you people had to pay your taxes in cash on Friday, there would be a revolution. Because you would see how much money you're giving the government. It would freak you out. If you had to walk to the tax collector like in biblical days, you would hate Matthew. You know, I mean, really, if you paid it out, that's the power of the emotion of this. And it's called friction in the marketing world. And so if you're on Amazon, you just hit click, click, click, click, click. Click, click, click. Crap. Starts landing on your phone. that when it's coming out of your accounts right then. Yeah, you do feel it. You do feel it more. You do feel it more. I'll just pay it later. There's more friction. But I mean, if you're just swiping that Apple Pay Phone man, these people, I just walk, they walk past. That would click it. And they walk past and hit it and it's calling. Man, I'm out of here. They don't even know they bought something. It didn't even hit their memory brand. Oh my gosh. Wow. It's convenient. I'm such a boomer. Wow. Oh well, I'm good with that though. I don't like my other options. You don't use Apple Pay. I'm going, you're right. I don't. I promise you I don't. I'm old school. That puts this hour of the Rams. You showing the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace. And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.