From Burnt Out to Turned On w/ Fernanda Bressan | Szn. 4 Ep. 1

Hi, it's Dr. Jen Kennedy. I'm a sexologist and couples therapist. The Pleasure Project is about sex and relationships. That includes desire, dysfunction, dissatisfaction, exploration, toys, and trends. Sometimes I'll enlist other experts. Sometimes it'll just be me. We'll increase your insight and enhance your pleasure. So tune in. In this episode, I'm joined by executive life and business coach, Fernanda Bresson, who has built numerous companies and now guides high achievers through powerful life pivots. We talk about what really happens when the life you've built stops feeling like your life, when success doesn't feel successful, and when you need to lead and to follow, both in the bedroom and in the boardroom. And beneath it all, desire. Not just sexual desire, but the deep erotic current that comes from true alignment and coming back into your body. Fernanda and I explore midlife as reclamation of your voice, your pleasure, your leadership, your aliveness. If you're in that season where something in you is whispering, there has to be more than this. This conversation is your permission slip. So tune in. Hi everyone. Welcome back to The Pleasure Project. Quick note before we dive in, I now have a subscription feed for listeners who want the deeper, spicier behind the scenes version of this show. Think about things I can't say on the main episode, plus short guided practices, mini sessions, and an after dark conversation with guests. It's totally optional. Just a little VIP room for those of you who want to join me there. You can find it right under your apps. Hit subscribe. Today, we're diving into a topic that many of us face at midlife. You've built the life that you're supposed to, the career, the family, the home. You've checked every box, but somewhere along the way, the spark, the joy, the erotic aliveness that used to drive you starts to dim. What happens when success stops feeling good? When you've performed the version of yourself that everyone else needed, but somewhere in the process, you lost you. My guest today, Fernanda Brisson, knows this territory intimately. She's an executive life and business coach and the founder of foundfully. She helps high achieving individuals and teams get unstuck and navigate powerful midlife pivots by reclaiming their authenticity, voice, and desire. With a background that spans nine businesses and seven industries, Fernanda has lived what she teaches. Her work focuses on courageous communication, emotional intelligence, and the belief that midlife isn't a breakdown, it's a reclamation. So today we're exploring the deep intersection of leadership, love, and libido, and how truth, not performance, is the ultimate turn on. So welcome. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation. I think a lot of our listeners who are professionals are going to very much relate to it. So I'm excited to have it. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. And I love talking about pleasure and how it impacts us and the way we move through the world. So this will be interesting. Yeah, so give us kind of a snapshot of how, because I know you've done all this different interesting work and how you came into this particular position in this this time yeah that's a great question I think the short answer is I think I'm living this experience and so a lot of it was personally needed for me I felt like my light was dimming and so in my work with high performers and executives and teams, we tend to focus on the whole person. And so in assessing where I am and what was missing in my life, I started noticing that in midlife, we're doing a lot of role playing and we're the titles and the hats that we're wearing and all of the external shoulds. And so I wanted to get back to what about the vibrancy and the messiness and the joyful human that I am as a woman outside of all of those titles, roles and hats. And so as I started exploring and doing my own personal work that started to inform the work I was doing in my business. And I recognized that a lot of people that I was connected with were experiencing the same thing. And so I've circled back to using pleasure almost as a diagnostic tool. So when pleasure and joy are missing, it's a sign that you're not living your life to its fullest, and perhaps you're following somebody else's script. And so how do we get back to what is real and what feels right for us? So we're not performing, we're really in alignment with what our needs, desires, and pleasures are for this season of our life. And do you find that the people coming in to see you, to work with you are saying like nothing's wrong per se, but also nothing's alive? Yeah, I think it looks really put together from the outside. And so externally, it's like you've got your life together, your career is on the right track, your family is looking fine, or it's smooth. I mean, obviously, there's the day-to-day things. But overall, everything looks good, but there's something missing internally. And so what I have found and felt myself over the last couple of years is how do we turn that up? Where is that part of you that dissipates or disappears as you take care of everything externally? And how do we get back to that internally so that we can part or impart that part of ourselves in how we do everything? It's interesting too, because I feel like it's sort of a church and state idea where it's like your private life shouldn't affect your business life, but you're a whole human. So of course it does, right? How you're functioning and how you're feeling informs. You know, we know this, we know this about athletes, right? They don't play the same game every time. We know this about executives too, right? How you're feeling, how inspired you feel, how creative you feel, it informs and it affects performance. Everything. And so that's why I take this holistic or whole person approach. You know, sometimes people come to me and they want to work on something in their lives that they feel stuck on, whether it's a relationship or a pleasure project or something that they're trying to grow. And other times they come to me and it's something in their business. They want to scale. They want to change careers. They want to figure out how to lead differently or in a more aligned way. And what ends up happening is that all of that informs each other. And so if you're not feeling alive and whole, then whether it's your business or your life, there is something missing and you're out of sorts in a way. And so what I try to get us back to is understanding and assessing what is missing. And what I find many times, and this is the hard part, we, especially as women, we have done all of these external shoulds for so long that we almost lose sight of what do we really desire. And so it starts with really small steps of discovering things that bring us joy. It could be how we look at the world. It could be things like taking a walk and noticing small details. It could be tasting our food differently because we slow down and pause and we're able to actually taste something. It could be the way things feel on our skin, you know, enjoying a longer shower or taking a bath in a way where we're paying attention and being fully present so that we can come back to our bodies and not always be in our heads, but really start to rediscover the things that really matter to us and that make us feel really good. And that can be in our lives. It can be with our families, with our partners, it can be with ourselves, and it can be in our professional world. And so once we can start to define and articulate that, then we can start bringing back small things in the day-to-day that create more daily rituals or practices that allow us to feel more alive. And why is this happening in midlife? What's the hook or what's the correlation, I guess, to midlife? I think we get to a point where we've done all of the doing and we start to look at ourselves and say, is this all there is? And we're on the other side, potentially of a certain age where there's a recognition that life is short and that we really need to and want to live a different way. And I think we start to not give a shit as much about what other people think. And we want to align and assess like what's right for us. And that might be, you know, some people it's like empty nesters, their kids are off to school and they're like, what now? Or How do I reconnect with my partner? I don't even know what brings me joy. For some, it's like I've done this career for X number of years and I'm making great money and I feel successful, but I still feel like something is missing or I want to do more for myself. I think with women, it's been, especially lately in the world, I think we're talking a lot about perimenopause and menopause and what happens in midlife and really figuring out who we are. And I think for some people, we knew who we were and we lost sight of that. For some people, we've never known because we were conditioned to do all of the things that we needed to do to follow certain things or check off certain boxes. And once those boxes are checked or we've done the things that we thought we needed to or should do, we get to a place where we're like, okay, now I've done all that. And what now? Or who am I today? And so I think that's the part where in midlife, we recognize that this is our time and it doesn't mean that we need to slow down. It means that we need to rediscover who we are and figure out how we want to live moving forward. It's interesting too. Like, I feel like as a therapist, oftentimes when people are in that hedonic treadmill of just doing, doing, doing one of the things that we, one of the tools, one of the things we often do is say, what did you enjoy as a child? You know, what did you like doing? Let's reach back. And because people have gotten into the habit of just performance and productivity. And it's like, remember back when you were a kid and you didn't have a job and you didn't have any expectations of maybe at a chore list, but you didn't really have something you had to do and you could just be and play. That's not accessible for a lot of adults, right? We don't have play. Helping people actually find hobbies as an adult, strangely. You mentioned some things of sensory or somatic, but how do you guide people back to enjoyment or finding or even allowing themselves to tap into that? Yeah, it's a great question and it can be really difficult. And so part of that is taking a step back and pausing, which can be counterintuitive to a lot of high achievers and people who are in a certain phase of their life. And so I encourage people to take that step back. And sometimes it's just one small thing. It could be something like as simple as laughter. Like what makes you laugh or rest? I mean, rest is a huge one. And I find that in midlife, one of the things that I'm seeing quite often is people are doing, doing like you're saying, and they're performing and they are achieving, but they don't make space for rest. And there's almost this feeling like rest or pause is a negative. And so I encourage and get, I'm very action-based. And so it's funny because sometimes the action is the rest and it's getting people to take that step back and actually, not action. Yeah. It's what can you say more notes to? That's the hardest thing. That's the hardest thing for like high achievers is inaction, right? Totally. And so I say a lot, like the not doing is the doing. And sometimes it's that. It's like choosing to say no to something allows you to then select how you're going to say more yeses to the right thing. I'm also thinking too, as you said, like laughter. Laughter is typically a reaction or an interaction. I mean, you could, I guess you could be watching something that's funny, but it's so relational You know, when you're with somebody that helps you have a genuine reaction that's just fun, you know, then it feels so good. And having that, you know, relatability and such is like, it's such a nice grounding, centering experience when you are having humor that feels authentic. And I think most people really enjoy that dynamic, but it's, and it's a welcome experience. So yeah, that connection is so human. Well, I think connection is the key word, right? I think one of the things that we're missing because we are so connected but disconnected with social media and technology. One of the things that I find really valuable is how do we reconnect first with ourselves through small things, like I said earlier, and or how do we connect with people who feel safe and where we are able to have moments of joy and laughter and pleasure. And that can look so many different ways. I think the other thing that I really try to stress is that my joy and my pleasure doesn't look the same way as yours. And it doesn't have to. It's really about assessing and defining what works for me. And that could be a completely different thing that works for somebody else. And so the non-judgment piece is really key. I start with people doing often an exercise where we get deep in terms of where are some of those inner voices coming from and who is speaking loudly in your mind and in your day to day. And how do we turn those voices down so that we can raise the voice of wisdom, which is where our midlife persona is. That is our authentic self. It's who we want to be. It's how we want to show up. It's what allows us to move through life with a sense of ease. And if that isn't happening, that's where that stuckness happens in whatever area of our lives. And so when we are able to be somewhat vulnerable and it's baby steps, right? Not everybody can be. But if we can open that door of vulnerability and start to really assess and notice who are we and when am I feeling at my best? Then you're your best with your friends or your best with your family, with your kids. And sure, are you going to have challenges? Of course you are. But you're able to notice and catch yourself. And then, like I said earlier, pause, maybe take a step back, recognize that you're not showing up in that authentic way and that you need to pivot or do something different. And that may require saying no and increasing and having better boundaries around the things that don't serve you so that you can do the things that make you feel alive and excited and pleasurable and desired and desirable. Yeah. So back to I love Brene Brown and her vulnerability, right? It's like, that's where the meat is, is the vulnerability and times when, I mean, we feel vulnerable when we feel safe and when we feel connected to others. Right. So when I think about like, when do I feel, yeah, when do I feel vulnerable? I mean, vulnerable in a bad way when I feel unsafe, but when I feel willingly vulnerable is when I am in dialogue or in relationship with someone else and it's working and it's interesting and it you know we having a good conversation and I feel reflected or mirrored or or the other person like vibing with me and we like going back and forth and it like yeah this makes sense And you see me and you get me and you yeah right Like we on the same page or you responding to me and that feels so good Then I want to tell you more Yeah. And I think you feel that sense of connection and safety when you're making choices that work for you. And so it, again, goes back to the shoulds. Should I be in relationship with this person or should I be in this situation? But rather than assessing the shoulds from somebody else's perspective, it's coming to what do I need? What works for me? And does this situation, does this relationship, friendship, career path, do these choices allow me to feel present, safe, and be vulnerable so that I can be courageous and I can show up authentically? And that feels aligned and it feels like I'm living my best life. And this applies erotically. This applies professionally, right? Because all of these things port to the various contexts that we navigate. Well, and we're these multidimensional beings, right? We're not just one version of ourselves. We are ourselves in different situations. And so whether it's in the erotic, whether it's in the professional, whether it's in the familial, we need to show up in that way and make those selections and choices in all those areas. And some are going to be harder than others, but it's almost like using pleasure and joy as a compass to assess decision making. How have you seen shame act as like a break, like a pleasure break? And it shows up certainly professionally, but also interpersonally. Yeah, I think, unfortunately, shame is so prevalent. And one, it's being able to name it and recognize that that's what we're feeling so that we can then address it and figure out how to turn it down or minimize it. But it is there. And I think we feel it in all different ways in different areas of our lives. And so if we can recognize that some of what we're feeling is shame, then we can do something about it. And so what I try to do is ask questions and really mirror back certain things so that people can get to a place where they recognize that this is something that doesn't need to hold them back. And they may have become a defined part of who they are based on those externals that we're trying to let go of. So how do we first recognize that it's there? And then what are the steps we can take to, we're not going to fully get rid of it, but once we recognize it, we can separate from it and let it be its own thing, but it's only one part of who we are. And we're so many other parts, right? And so how do we allow those other parts to speak more loudly and really make the decisions that we're choosing to make from those other places? Yeah, because I find when people are operating from shame. It's this thing they're pushing away from or they're hiding or avoiding. And so certainly in the bedroom, it becomes this thing of like, don't notice this. Don't see this part. I'm hiding the ball. And in the boardroom or in decision-making, if it's this wounding or if it's this fearful spot that maybe it's a past failure professionally, that would be shameful. say you had this perceived failure in a past professional situation, I would imagine that that feels like a tender spot that you want to avoid. And so if you haven't processed it, if you haven't reclaimed it, then it might be really tricky to enter a zone that feels similar. Yeah, absolutely. And I think some of that is about self-worth and how we're showing up, whether it's in the bedroom or in the boardroom. If we can reclaim, as you said earlier, who we are and what we feel we hear, how we feel, how we see ourselves basically, and our sense of enoughness, then we can show up differently in the boardroom and in the bedroom. And part of that requires vulnerability and it does require taking that mask off and being who we truly are. And in order to do that, we do need to either leave shame at the door and or find places and people that allow us to feel the safety we need where we can self-express. And in order to do that, again, it comes back to being present, recognizing where we are, what we need, and getting back to how we feel in our bodies in this moment. And that impacts everything we do. It does. It's interesting. And the other side of this isn't, it's not like one day you just leave shame on the side of the sidewalk. You're like, no. Okay. I'd like to leave you behind as my carry on, right? Wouldn't that be nice? I know. Wouldn't that be so nice? You're like, I don't need you anymore. You can stay there. But, and this, this happens in the business context, you know, like literally a flash of past, like cringy business moments happened for me when I thought about the word shame. Cause I think we all have those, you know, as I'm a business owner, I've also been an employee in the past where I think about regrettable decisions or exchanges or, you know, I've been fired. I've been, actually I was laid off, but you could call it fired, whatever. I think of that book, all the cool girls got fired. Like it just came out. I was like, I think I'm part of that club, you know? And, but if the transition away from shame into the reclamation piece, I think becomes like, it's a lesson or it was just an experience. And what is the, what is the takeaway from it? And that happens in the bedroom too, right? It's like, it's just an experience. You can neutralize it to some degree by learning from it and being curious about it and deciding what am I taking away from this instead of like, I'm inherently bad or this makes me somehow flawed, but like, where am I going from this? Right. And that's, I think the maturity that we have in midlife is I can look at this thing and I don't have to inherently make it say something negative about me, but it's just, it's just part of my whole package of like some of the, some of the scars I have as I move forward. Right. It's part of why I know so much and why I'm good at being, being a high achiever now, because I've got a lot, I've got some battle wounds, you know? Yeah. I think curiosity, compassion are huge, whether it's in the bedroom or whether it's in the boardroom, it really comes down to how can we be more curious about ourselves and about others and compassionate having, giving ourselves grace. I think when you were talking about making mistakes or failures, I am a huge proponent of failure as a learning opportunity. And that can apply in all areas. And so if we're curious and we're compassionate and we recognize that when we make quote unquote a mistake or we do something that's perhaps wrong, I try not to put judgment on things like right or wrong or good or bad, because I do think that they're all learning opportunities. And so it really is a stretch out of our comfort zone to reflect on it and say, okay, I fell short there, what did I learn? Or I behaved in a way that didn't feel great for me or for this other person I was in relationship with. What can I do differently next time? How can I show up in a way that is more present and aligned so that I can be vulnerable and perhaps have a difficult conversation or have to say something where I'm speaking from my truth? And what does that look like? Right? And in midlife, I think we get to a point where we're like, if someone isn't understanding my truth or doesn't want to hear what I have to say in a certain way, then I get to choose how I interact with them going forward, whether it's professionally or personally. And so we have choices. And I think every relationships are voluntary. And I say that a lot, even to my teenage daughter, we don't have to stay in relationships that don't serve us. And I know sometimes that can sound almost selfish, but I think it's actually really healthy. If we aren't feeling what we need to feel, or we're not able to show up in a way that allows us to be who we truly are, then we get to choose what dynamic that looks like or how much energy or time we put into that dynamic. Yeah, I love that. It's this idea that we impact our relationships all the time, right? We're part of the equation and how we show up and how we give input effects. And we can also choose to withdraw from it altogether. That's part of it. Yeah, and I think that that selectiveness allows us the space and the time because we all have 24 seven, right? We all have the same amount of time. And where do we put that time? And I believe, at least for me, as I've gotten older, I realized that when I choose the things that help me feel good, or the things that I'm excited about, or I'm with people that see me in a certain way, then those choices dictate the mood that I have, the feelings that I have, the growth potential that I have. And so whether it's personally or professional, again, those selective choices help me live a life that feels more turned on. Yeah, I agree. I think Taylor Swift just said something like, like attention. Would she say something like my attention is expensive or something? So you said something, she said something like that. Yeah. Something like that, which I was like, yeah, like, right. It should be like, like our attention is valuable. And I love that idea. Let's see. In your view, what does reclaiming desire actually require in terms of discomfort, receiving and kind of rewriting worth? That's a great question. I think in my view, it requires the bravery to go for it before you know what the outcome is going to be and trusting yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't, there's, there's no guarantees, right? It's not a formula. It's, it's an interaction. Well, and as you said before, the difficult, the challenges, the failures, if you go for something and it doesn't work out the way you thought, there's still an opportunity there for growth, for learning, for exploration and for curiosity. And so jumping before you're ready takes a lot. But if you don't do it, then you're always stuck in the what if I had or what would it look like? And so I am a big proponent of starting something before you're ready, taking chances, obviously calculated and risks need to be assessed. But doing so from a place of like, this aligns for me, I'm going to go for it. What is the worst thing that can happen? I ask a lot of what if questions. Well, what if it doesn't work out? What if it does? What if the person that you meet up with or have a conversation with or have a sexual experience with or whatever, what if that helps you learn something about yourself or lights you up in a way that you didn't know you could be lit up? Yeah. Yeah. Because it sort of puts you on the spot to do something, to feel something, to start something new in your mind, right? It's almost like when you, well, for me, when I put something on the calendar, I start orienting toward it, right? It puts things into motion. And when you initiate something with somebody, then in any context, your brain starts putting blocks into place that wouldn't have been there otherwise. And so, yeah, if you jump, then you're like, okay, I guess I'm going to figure out how to figure it out. Land. Yeah. Right. And sometimes that can be really scary, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it. And you may surprise yourself. And I think that that's something that's missing sometimes in midlife. It's almost like we're living this very kind of mundane, like you said, dim, but maybe like almost numb. And so what I try to encourage is like, what is going to take you from a place of numbness or dimness to a place of feeling bright and excitable. And sometimes it is that jump and that, you know, stepping into a fearful space safely. What about, okay, so what about people that I'm doing parallel on purpose, people who are in like longer term relationships or in longer term careers or jobs, you know, where things have been, they're in kind of a status quo of familiarity, maybe safety, but also boredom, a little bit of like monotony, you know, what then? I think it's about communication. And it starts with us being able to honestly look at your situation, whether it is in a long term relationship or in a business or a job that you've been with, where you feel comfortable, you're making good money, you feel like I've reached my potential or in the relationship. You know, I love my partner, everything feels safe, there's a sense of security. I've again, checked off all the boxes. But it's like, oh, I'm still on the same hamster wheel every day with the same situation and the same conversation. So I think it comes to having a deep, honest conversation with yourself, which again, goes back to how do I get present? How do I actually take a little time for myself and reflect on like what's working and what's not working? Or if it's not working, what am I scared of seeing or saying? And then communicating that externally, whether it's with a partner or a child or a parent or a boss. Communicating it doesn't mean you have to do something about it. It means that you want it to look a different way. It doesn't mean you're going to quit the job or you're going to leave the marriage. It just means that perhaps there's a different way of approaching the same situation in a new form that didn't work or that you didn't see before and that you now need in order to align with who you are today in midlife. And oftentimes we only see what's right in front of us or the way we've always done things. And that's the comfort part. Right. But like, what if there's another way? And so I think for me, like professionally, one of the things I end up doing with a lot of people is I provide a non-emotional kind of what are the other ways? And they're like, oh, I've never thought of that. Right. Like, let's unpack this. Let's look at it, turn it around, look at it from other angles. Like what else could be? Yeah. And not judge that it has to be a certain way because there are a lot of different ways to skin the cat, right? Like what if there's, I know, I knew you were going to say that. I like my cat very much. I don't like that saying, but. But there are different approaches to things, right? So how do we approach something in a way that works for us today? And by the way, what works today may not work tomorrow or next year. And that's okay too. And so I think that one of the things we forget is that when we make a decision, we get to change our minds. And so where the fear lies sometimes is that if we choose something or we decide something we stuck again on something else I remind people often including myself that those decisions are temporary We can make a decision today that aligns or works for us but tomorrow it can change And that's okay. I get to rewrite that story whenever I want. It's my story. It's my life. And also just even a minor tweak in approach, in language, in even sometimes just having a conversation has a shift around how we feel, how we expect, how we relate, right? It's like, it's amazing how just some, something different feels and can shift our energy. So. Yeah. I think one thing that's interesting, for sure. And something that's interesting is we often think that that conversation or those words are going to be difficult or heavy. And I would say 90% of the time, those conversations turn out easier than we anticipated. They open doors for deeper connection. They allow for vulnerability on both sides of the equation, whether it's your way of self-expression or the way other people are hearing it. And then the response is equally as vulnerable or open or willing. And there's a beauty to that. And I think I talk about collecting proof. And so if we can do these baby steps over time, like have a difficult conversation or say something that aligns for us or say no to something that doesn't, and then we can remind ourselves and collect proof that when we do that and we live authentically and in alignment and vulnerably, then things tend to work out in a more positive light for us. Then we're willing to try again when it doesn't work or when we're fearful or when we're hesitant. Well, and ideally, when you take that risk by having that conversation, you're encountering somebody who is also meeting you as a human and being human with you. And like you said, giving, maybe tapping into their own examples of needing that sometimes aliveness or shift or remembering when they've been in your shoes or something, you know, and that's not necessarily true. Maybe you meet their fear or their abandonment or whatever. And they're like, don't leave or don't feel this or, you know, get back in line or whatever that could happen too, especially with a boss or with a partner who's like, you know, but, but ideally there's some openness and there can be a conversation that can, that can shift in the positive. And I think for me, the most important thing there is leading by example in any area of your life. Right. And so if I show up in a certain way and I'm willing to do the work and be vulnerable, then I am leading by example in my conversations, in my behaviors, in my choices. And for me, what that's done is, and I hear it often, It's just taken me to till midlife to actually be able to say it out loud and accept it. It's inspiring to others and it empowers people to want to do the same. And if I can do it, I'm just a normal woman, you know, and if I can do it, then you can do it too. Whether it's in parenting or it's in relationship or it's in recreation of yourself professionally, I've done all of those things. And here I am, and I'm still feeling strong and empowered and making choices that align. And do I mess up? Of course. But I remind myself and I collect the proof basically of when you've done things that were the right things for you and that you were feeling it in your body and you were bringing yourself back to the present moment and saying, hey, like, is this what I need right now in my life and in this season? And when the answer is yes, and you make those choices, then it perpetuates better things. Yeah, it does. And I feel more connected and happier, you know? Yep. Okay. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll resume. Sounds good. A quick pause here to share something that I've been working on that I think you will really appreciate, especially if you've ever felt confused or disconnected from your sexual desire. 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All right. Welcome back. So let's step back in. And my question is, how does stepping back into personal leadership outside the bedroom, shift what's possible inside it, even if you're not coaching directly on set. I think when you're feeling empowered in life, then you're able to be non-performative in the bedroom and you can show up fully and vulnerably and be yourself, even if you're uncertain or you have fears or you need to have certain conversations. Perhaps starting outside the bedroom is actually a way to encourage more authenticity in the bedroom is what I think I'd say. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, risk taking, effective risk taking in any context generalizes, right? Like you, if you do it successfully in one context, you can have it work in any other place. Why does erotic energy and leadership both rely so much on presence, risk, and truth? Like, where do you see that? I think it has to do with who we are. And we don't fully know who we are. We're not behaving from a place of authenticity when we're not fully present. And I think that when we can be, then we are speaking our truth. We're willing to take risks in and out of the bedroom. And I think that that then allows us to be stronger leaders and communicate more clearly. And that's necessary in any part of our lives. How do you see authenticity at work translating into, can you kind of address this authenticity in intimacy? Like, do you think, because I, I've definitely seen like leaders and they say, there's this joke of like dominatrix often have these bad-ass businessmen who just want to be dominated. Right. But can you be authentic in the work context and how does that in your show up, you know, erotically? I think you might need different things erotically than you do in your professional self. And so I think you can be authentic professionally and show up as a boss and know how you want to lead and be somewhat vulnerable, take the mask off and actually be honest about who you are in the workplace. And then that doesn't necessarily mean it's a direct reflection or a mirroring in the bedroom. So I'll speak for my personal example. I think I'm a very strong action taker. I'm very much a doer. I like to see things come to fruition in my personal or in my professional life. I like to not be in control as much privately and in the bedroom. And I sometimes don't want to make decisions and I want somebody else to take charge. I mean, from making dinner reservations to what a romantic evening can look like, sometimes it's just nice to be out of control because I am so in control of my professional life. Now, both of those are authentically me. I'm just able to articulate and communicate those things differently in a workplace setting and in a personal setting. And I think they're important because they make me an entire version of myself. And so I think that kind of the being able to understand ourselves, especially in midlife, is very important. And so in that understanding comes the ability to communicate our needs, which then allows us to be authentically who we are. I think also in the after story that we will tell in the subscriber version might include that I met Fernanda at a retreat in Costa Rica and we were partnered up for some rope play where I did tie her hands up and give her some guidance. So maybe you'll get that short version of that story if you subscribe. That'll be a little teaser for that. That's for those that just want to see a little fun side of us. Yes, teaser there. How do you define the erotic quality of receiving of surrender, trust and softening? So I have had personally to work quite a bit on accepting receiving because like you said earlier, I do like control. And so as you experience- All of us high achieving people love control. Yeah. So letting go of control, I think is part of what allows us to receive. And by receiving, it also allows you to recharge and to be softer. And part of that is necessary so that you can be in control in certain settings and situations, but not to the point of exhaustion or overwhelm or burnout. And so for me, that's something I have worked really hard on is knowing when to step back, allow something or somebody else to be in control of certain situations or things. And the not doing back to what we talked about earlier, sometimes is what's required. And it's super difficult, but necessary. And I think there's a saying, you can be a top from the bottom or a bottom from the top, right? But it's a powerful position either way. And I think that you can, you know, receiving is quite a powerful gesture too. And giving up control is powerful. It's a powerful gesture because it's generous, but it's also incredibly lovely for oneself if you can enjoy it too. Well, and I think it can take practice, right? And maybe that's part of vulnerability where you do have to feel trusting and then relinquish some control in one way or another and receive. Again, it may not come easy for some people, but I think that there is a beauty, like you said to that, and that's where the softening happens. And sometimes for me, I have a lot of masculine energy and I've worked really hard on the softening and the allowing of the feminine to rise. And that softening actually makes me more impactful in how I come across in my professional work, but also in my relationships and in my parenting. If I were always in control, then fully who I am intended to be. And so by letting go of control, by softening, by receiving, it's almost like it's this interplay and a give and take. And you were talking earlier about playfulness. It's hard for us as adults sometimes to find that, but it can be even in these types of exchanges. It doesn't have to be playfulness in a way that we're traditionally thinking about it. it may be playfulness in the sense of like allowing yourself to receive. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I hear you, Doug. Sorry. That's okay. She's been good the whole time. She's still, she's still good. Let's see what, like what body-based, I know you just did a retreat and you're just coming off of that. So what body-based practices or re-entry points do you find helpful for people to reconnect with, you know, like self-touch with movement, with pleasure, like, and you're not necessarily talking about self-touch. I don't know if you are not when you're working with people that are high achievers and kind of, but you know, you're talking about pleasure and again on multiple tracks. So how are you having that conversation, the somatic one, the body-based one with people that are high achieving go-getter midlife people? Yeah. Um, I probably am talking about it differently than you do in your practice. But I think part of it is breath work. And how do we get back in our bodies? I have a couple of like very simple things that I have people do. One is just like rubbing their thumb and forefinger together and feeling the ridges of their fingers and understanding what it feels like to be more sensual and to understand your body. And that can happen with like the sensation of water touching you. It can happen with cold and warmth. Sometimes it's like very simple everyday things. So because I'm working with people who have a limited amount of capacity or bandwidth, I'm very intentional about small, simple recommendations or resources that don't take a lot of time or energy. Because what often happens is if we're trying to implement all of these difficult things to get back to something, and we don't have the time, then we feel like we're just not going to do anything. And so what I try to do is like, what are the small things you can do? So it may be just like when you take a walk, leaving your phone and noticing colors in your environment. You know, I talked about the five senses before it could be, you know, what does something feel like when it touches your skin? Like, have you been wearing something that is like rough or soft or silky or lacy? And what does that feel like to you? And how do you feel in those moments? And sometimes those are the places that allow people to recognize things that are enjoyment based for them or that bring them pleasure in a way that they haven't felt in a really long time. And it seems so simple, but if we're not doing it or we're not paying attention to it, then we're, we're just kind of turned off to it. It's so true. Your sweater looks super soft, right? Like when you wear something soft and like, it just feels good. And you, you notice like it all day, right? It just feels yummy and it feels like a true. But it's just as easy to ignore it and to just be like, oh, I just got dressed and I moved through my day. But it's like, well, wait a minute. How is that feeling on your body? And when you're feeling that, how do you move through the day? How do you show up even on a virtual Zoom call? And like, how do you not show up at your best? And where are the choices you can make that allow you to show up where you feeling that sense of aliveness I feel different when I look cute Like when I put a good outfit on I move through the day differently I feel cute I want people to see me Like I want to make sure that like, you know, and it's like, I, yeah. So I think it makes a difference to, it's part of self-care. I think it's part of, yeah, it's just like versus function. It's, it's what we choose to ingest. It's what we choose to wear. It's how we, how we treat ourselves. Well, and sometimes narrative. Yeah. I mean, you asked about softness earlier. Sometimes it can be like even the unseen things. So like, I'll give you a personal example, a little vulnerable. A couple of years back when I started recognizing that I wasn't fully feeling alive, I realized that I always liked really pretty lacy feminine lingerie. And I hadn't bought myself any of that for a really long time. And so I went out and decided that I was going to get myself some pretty things. And so I wear things that make me feel sensual or sexy or pretty underneath. And it doesn't necessarily mean I'm doing it or showing it to anybody else, but it's how I show up for myself. And so when I talk to women, especially women in midlife, and I give that example, people say, wow, like something that simple shifted how you felt. And I'm like, yes. So now like it could be from like the way I put lotion on my body after the shower and then putting on something pretty. And again, it's for me. And so recognizing that, and I like, it took me, it's such a silly thing, right? Or it could be a silly thing, but it was so impactful that it changed how I held my body and how I sat up in a meeting and even the willingness to speak my voice and say something that was perhaps controversial in a, in a professional setting, because I had this inner confidence that nobody knew what was going on underneath my white t-shirt and jeans but I knew and it made me feel a certain way so I think if you can find those little things and that's what I try to help people uncover like what are the little and not everybody needs to wear lingerie but what are the little things that are going to make you feel like you and then how can you apply those things we're all imagining that won't be in the show notes Fernanda thank you for this conversation and for the work that you're doing. So tell us a bit more. What have you got coming up? I am just off the retreat that you mentioned. I've got several magic women's retreats coming up in 2026. I co-founded an incredible community for women here in Austin called Joyful Motherfuckers. And we have a virtual option as well. And it's basically where women can be real, raw, and uninhibited. And we have events. We have workshops and all kinds of really bonding and connecting experiences for women in midlife. And then my one-on-one work, which is really where I thrive. And I really feel like I become an integral part of people's lives and businesses and help walk beside them and get them unstuck and moving towards feeling more of that aliveness and reclaiming who they are. Great. And you can find Fernanda on Instagram at foundfully. We will put this in the show notes as well. So thank you for listening today and please follow and subscribe. And also if you are wanting to learn more about this and get the inside scoop about Fernanda and I in Costa Rica, then please subscribe to the, uh, the extra VIP. So you can do that in your app and I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you. Okay. We're going to keep rolling and then we'll just shoot the next ones. Okay. So a couple things. Let's see. Let's see. So questions. What is one belief about sex or intimacy? Oh, I can hear that. I can think I moved. Sorry. That's okay. Okay. What is one belief about sex or intimacy you've changed your mind about? A belief about sex and intimacy that I've changed my mind about, that as we age, we slow down the exploration and the desires that we have. I think it's actually the opposite. I think we feel more confident and liberated, and we want to explore and do things differently. At least I have. And I feel like I want to sometimes scream that from the rooftop so women specifically can feel empowered to explore who they are and try things that maybe they felt ashamed or weren't willing to try before and can now. Yeah. I love that. It's like, we're not slowing down. We're just, we're just getting warmed up. It's good. Well, things change, but like knowing that change is okay. Doesn't mean it has to be bad. It could be like positive change. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, it's acceptance of the change. It looks different, but it's, it's wanting what you have and creating your directing your life in a way that feels good. What's one mistake you made in your twenties that you wish you could redo? Well, probably not believing in myself and feeling like I wasn't enough. And I've come to recognize that I am, and I could have done it differently, but I probably needed to have made those mistakes in order to do all the things that took me to where I am now. So I would probably redo the way I talked to myself. I was really tough on myself and probably my biggest critic and judge. And it took me a long time to break that pattern. So yeah, I think most of us are pretty hard on ourselves. And that critical voice can get very loud. I see it a lot. And I help not just women, but men have it also. And now with a teenage daughter, it's something I really try to instill. And I will tell you a funny story or kind of maybe not funny, But when she was really little, I learned from a therapist that kids see what you do, not what you say. And so I had this practice of looking in the mirror and saying something positive to myself every day and that she would hear it or see me doing that. And it was so uncomfortable, but I continue to do that. And it really shifted and changed the way I look at myself and the way I judge or not judge my body. And I've used it in professional settings in different ways where people have to say positive things to themselves. while looking in a mirror and it can be hugely impactful. I love that. My 20 year old self would not have done that. Yeah. It's like affirmation, affirmation to self, right? It's like, oh yeah, that's good. Explain the part you'd only tell your private clients. You talked about parts work, but like something that you'd maybe only tell your private clients. I think for me, it's what I said earlier about not feeling like enough. I think I lacked confidence for a long time. And it was a story that I had created and I continued to perpetuate it by living a certain way and not owning my truth and not embracing that I actually have a gift and I can support and help others. And I have this tremendous amount of capacity and that I actually don't get drained by supporting others. I get energized. And I used to think like, is that OK? Because I met a lot of mentors and coaches that I worked with in the past and they would say, oh, at the end of the day, I feel so drained. And I was always like, I feel really energized. And if I woke up and I felt a little sluggish or I was having a bad day and then I got on my first support call with a client, it would actually change and shift me in the other direction. And for a long time, I was hesitant to say that because I thought maybe there was something wrong. And so that hiding parts of myself and that authentically, if I do feel energized, why not just own it? And so I think that that type of share is, I don't say that to everyone, but I do share that with my clients. And sometimes it helps them to see themselves in a new light. Can you tell me what you had for breakfast, but say it in Portuguese? You can say literally anything in Portuguese and it would sound amazing. Funny enough, I actually had pão de queijo dos brasileiros e um cafezinho for breakfast today. I love it. are little cheese they're little brazilian cheese breads and a little coffee in portuguese i love okay so now we have to tell the story of costa rica all right we were there for a retreat with esther perel and we were we were partnered off we chose each other as partners this was a couple days into the retreat and there was a gal that was doing um shabari and we each took a turn um and it was ropes work where we were supposed to tie hands together right there was there was the guidance was was kind of loose but yeah where the hands were together and the wrists right so So we were supposed to tie the wrists and loosely that we were given the, the role of tying it. And then without speaking, there was supposed to be some, some guidance of, um, pulling the, the, the person that was dominating was pulling. And the other person was giving indications of wanting or not wanting by physical cues. All the communication was nonverbal. And so it was really subtle and it was interesting, right? Because I don't know you very well. And it wasn't just the hands. It was also, we tied around the body. But initially, I think initially, wasn't it the hands? Maybe we started with the hands and then. Yeah. And there was definitely some. So it wasn't like there was all this distance, right? It was like pretty close. We're close. Actually, I think I have a photo. So maybe I'll include that in the show notes for the VIP people. And yeah, it was, it was this, it was this very intimate thing of like, you know, do you want this? Do you not want this? How close can I get? How tight do you want the rope? You know, like how comforting is it? Is it, are you going to panic? Like, right? It was, it was kind of a lot. yeah and also not knowing non-verbally how to at least for me how to verbalize what I was and wasn't okay with in some senses there was even a little miscommunication I think where I pulled back a little bit and you thought I didn't want something or I wanted it less firm I in retrospect once we talked we had a debrief I realized that I had pulled back and that indicated that I wanted more space when actually I didn't. I wanted it to be tighter and I was enjoying it, but I didn't really know how to express that non-verbally. So we really had to like navigate this ebb and flow of how to express things and our wants and needs with one another without knowing each other very well and being tied. Fascinating. Yeah. And it was such a, it was an anxiety producing event because we were kind of one level above strangers. I didn't want to offend. I didn't want to cross a line. I knew I was going to have to see her the rest of the week. It was kind of exhilarating, but it was also, it was nerve wracking. So all of that tracks with like hookup sex, basically, you know what I mean? If someone's just having sex for the first time, it's like, I don't know how to do this. I'm not sure what this person wants. Am I going too far? Is this working? Do they like me? Do I like, oh, am I offending? So I just was like in this moment of like, oh, you know, I don't want to, and I have to see this person in class tomorrow or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, so the whole thing, it was, you know, and there was miscommunication that definitely happened. And thankfully the debrief, we had, we had enough of a initial relationship that we could debrief and talk openly and have some humor and clarify. Whereas a lot of people initially having sex don't even have that, which is ironic because they're having sex. So they really shouldn't have sex probably because they don't even have that, but like the willingness to talk about it, right. And articulate what they meant, what they wanted, what they needed, right. Those are all relational skills that can be sometimes really tricky in the vulnerable space. And when you're, when you're tied up, you give up some of your ability to flee or to protest. And we could have spoken, but we didn't because we were trying to follow the rules. We're both high achieving. Rule fallers. We're both rule fallers. To an extent, yeah. We didn't want to, we were like, we got to. We don't want to mess up. There were people in the room that bailed out, right? They felt really uncomfortable. And so they left for different reasons, which is fair. But there was a lot of mixed reactions to the exercise. And I thought it was fascinating and really interesting. So I actually learned a lot about myself. I feel like I learned that I thought I was a great communicator and I am professionally, but I recognize that in certain vulnerable situations that that communication, especially non-verbally, was harder for me. And part of that, I think, was especially in the receiving end. And since then, I've done work, not with ropes, but I've done work on understanding why that is or how to show up differently and be able to receive more fully. yeah I think it was like an incredible door opener for just for a lot of personal recognition and I think we all experience things that surprise us in ways that can be further explored she let us bring the ropes home and I saw my rope the other day it was actually in the dog toy bin and I was like what is it doing there that is not where it belongs that is sacred get that out of there come on it's gonna end up there this is this is important anyway well thank you so much i have appreciated this and thanks for that extra little little special input so you're welcome thank you all right hey it's dr jen thanks for tuning in if something in today's episode resonated with you please take a moment to leave us a review and drop a comment we'd love your feedback it really helps support the podcast and keeps this content coming your way. If you're looking to dive deeper into pleasure, connection, and self-discovery, check out my Pleasure Circle course, where we explore these topics in a fun, guided way. I also write a weekly newsletter with articles, insights, and inspiration to help you live a more connect, pleasure-filled life. And if you want to connect with me directly, you can message me on Instagram at Dr. Jen Kennedy, or email me at drjenkennedy at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.