At EDF, we don't just encourage you to use less electricity, we actually reward you for it. That's why when you use less during peak times on weekdays, we give you free electricity on Sundays. How you use it is up to you. EDF. Change is in our power. Hey friends, welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas, and we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the Raising Girls. This week it is. It is. It's supposed to be the Raising Boys and Girls podcast, but this week it is all about the girls. And we're in the middle of our capable series, which we have been loving. And we're talking about what it looks like to raise kids who are not just successful, but sturdy. Kids who believe they can handle life. And today's episode is one I have been really excited about because we are going to talk all things girls today. So excited for the last 30 years, my dear friend Sissy Goff has spent thousands of hours sitting with girls and their parents in counseling. She's walked through anxiety, friendship struggles, perfectionism, identity questions, you name it. So today I'm flipping roles a little bit and interviewing Sissy about something she writes about in the book, the three biggest challenges that girls face when it comes to capability. Sissy, I love the verse you start this chapter with. You quote Psalm 14412, which says, May our sons and their youth be like plants full grown. Our daughters like corner pillars cut from the structure of a palace. Will you talk about why that verse means so much to you and when you think about girls? I love that verse because if I think about a corner pillar on a palace, one, it's beautiful. Two, it is really strong. It's foundational to that palace. It is holding up the entire thing. And I think for the girls in all of our lives, they are going to be required to hold up a lot. Mom's listening right now. I have no idea what your day has looked like so far. But my guess is you've been holding up a lot already. And we want girls to hear from their earliest stages that they are strong enough to carry it, that they are capable of being that very pillar. And so it's really my favorite verse when it comes to talking about girls because of all the things that they will carry, relationally, leadership positions, emotional awareness, faith, family, friendships, there's so much. And my experience these days is that girls have a really complicated relationship with this idea of capability. And I'm seeing girls who are over-capableing themselves to exhaustion, so much perfectionism, so much pressure in the world of girls. And on the other hand, I'm seeing girls who are afraid of their own capabilities certainly don't feel like they could ever say it out loud. And so I think it is really important for us to think about how to help girls move past the challenges we're about to talk about and step into that sense of who God really did make them to be. Okay. I want to talk about this first, the drop in confidence. One of the statistics that you put in the book just stopped me in my tracks. You write that between ages eight and 14, a girl's confidence drops by 30%. Why do you think that happens? I can't even tell you how many times I've seen it. I can think of one little girl early on, she was little. And she told me she was chasing her brother down the hall and she ran past a mirror and she stopped and she looked in the mirror and she said, wow, I am fast and beautiful, which I love. I love that. And then fast forward. And I remember one girl saying to me, it was like in middle school, I faded. And I mean, that has been consistently true in 30 plus years of counseling girls. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over. And they start out believing good things about themselves. And a few years later, and they would never say those things out loud. And I think between social comparison, academic pressure, social media, friendship, dynamics, safety changes, girls start to question everything around the age of puberty and their confidence begins to fall as a result. And you say something really important here that this isn't just about their age. It's also about the age we're living in. Yes. That is certainly true. I would say girls today are under more pressure than I've ever seen. Pressure academically, pressure socially, pressure athletically, pressure to perform. And then we add something that no generation of girls has ever had to navigate before. They have to publicly post about their lives while they're experiencing them. And that pressure certainly impacts their sense of capability. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the three big challenges. So you summarize the challenges girls face in three words, feelings, failings and fear. And you say those are the three things you talk about the most in your work with girls. So let's start with the first one, feelings. Let's talk about feelings. You quote our friend, Dr. Lisa DeMore, describing girls as having five extreme emotions before eight o'clock in the morning. Why do emotions have such a strong impact on a girl's sense of capability? Well, I think girls just feel so deeply. And in the book, I talk about how I want girls to know that feelings are a lot like toddler age boys, that they don't know how to use their inside voices and they're not very truthful reporters. And I took my nephew, Henry and went out to dinner on Valentine's Day. And there was this sweet family sitting next to us that I don't think they could even have a conversation with as loud as it was. And we were playing that game, you know, where you start one story and the next person tells the next and the next person tells the next. And wit starts everything with, and so, and he was just yelling and so, and then he started on his own story and said, and so last night, mom was asleep and the alarm was going off and the door was wide open and I came downstairs and I was starting to get alarmed. And I looked over at Henry who shook his head and winked at me like, no, did he? That is not what was going down in our house. But that was wits and so story for the night. But I think for girls, their emotions just feel so big, which is such a beautiful part of who God made them to be. And I think it's a little bit like a snow globe that when they get shaken up, we can't see the picture. And so with girls, we want to be aware of that because their emotions take over. And when they do girls think things like, I'm going to fail. My friends don't like me. I'm going to embarrass myself. No one wants to sit by me. No one wants to talk to me. And those feelings keep them from trying things just like we've been talking about. And you have seen that for years in your work, haven't you? Every day and more so again than ever before. Girls who are afraid to try out for something. Girls who won't spend the night away from home. Girls who won't tell their friends how they really feel. Girls who won't reach out to a new friend and feelings starting to define their reality. OK, I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately. Fewer pieces, better materials, quality over quantity, which is how I accidentally discovered something life changing. I feel a little nervous. Quince makes a short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polo. Of course they do. Which means I am now in Quince cashmere year around. Winter, cashmere sweater, spring, short sleeve cashmere polo. I'm basically waiting to see if they release beach cashmere. But truly that's why I keep coming back to Quince. 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She could not get settled in my bed, circling, sighing dramatically, flopping down, getting back up, and then I realized I had washed the bedding and forgot to put the bowl and branch sheets back on. Uh oh. Do you have some entitlement to work through? Yes. In her defense, I get it. She's got great taste and here's the thing, most people keep their bedding way longer than they should. Sheets start pilling, corners pop off, pillows flatten. You don't realize how much it's affecting your sleep until you finally replace it. We upgraded our bed with bowl and branch. Their signature organic cotton sheets, breathable pillows and that waffle blanket and the difference was immediate. The sheets are incredibly soft, breathable and they actually get softer after every wash. The moment you lie down, the bed just feels better. Cooler, more polished, more inviting. Even dogs can tell. Apparently, if you think you need a new mattress, you probably just need new bedding. Most people start with the signature sheet set and then quickly upgrade the whole bed. I did and now I'm not going back. Upgrade your sleep with bowl and branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com slash raising with code raising. That's bowl and branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash raising, code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. All right. In response to that, you give three truths you want girls to understand about feelings. Will you walk us through those? The first one is this, feelings are just feelings. We often categorize emotions as good or bad. I think we did that when we were growing up, but emotion is actually just information. Psychologist Susan David, who we love, says feelings are data, not directives. Feelings tell us something. They tell us more about who we are, what we long for. They tell us something about the heart of God. But we want, as this wise dad told his daughter years ago that I was counseling, we want feelings to be the caboose of the train, not the engine. And for so many girls, I see those feelings are the engine. Two, feelings teach us about ourselves and about God, just like we're talking about. Our emotions help us understand what matters to us, what we care about, what hurts, what we need. Ryan Allender is a psychologist we love too. He says emotions actually lead us toward reality and toward God. And so we want to be talking about feelings with kids. We want to be empathizing, having them name their feelings, passing a feeling chart, using a feelings wheel, all of those things to help us understand. And then third, I would circle back right to what we were talking about before. Feelings are like preschool boys yelling from the booth next to you. They're loud. They're inside voice. And they're not always accurate reporters. Just because something feels true doesn't mean it actually is. And I see so many girls who trust their feelings more than they trust themselves. And we want the opposite to be true. Ryan And the second challenge you talk about is failings. And I love when you talk about the research that you came across with that when something goes wrong, boys tend to blame others and girls tend to blame themselves. Why do you think that is? Ryan I think girls internalize so much of what's going on with them. And just like we talk about in the Braver, Stronger, Smarter book, I think all girls who are anxious want so much to please, they want to be kind, they are conscientious. And I think girls often don't want to say, you made me really angry. That really hurt my feelings. And I cannot count the amount of girls who've been really hurt by someone else and come into my office. And the first thing they say is something critical about themselves. So when friendship goes wrong, when they don't make the team, when someone hurts their feelings, their default thought is, what did I do wrong? So much of the time in all ages, you all. And that belief creates two core messages girls often carry that I talk about in the teenage book for girls brave. One, something is wrong with me. And two, I'm the only one who feels this way. Okay. You talk about three different ways girls respond to failure. We talk about those now. Yeah. The three patterns I see with girls. One are the girls who blame. And they are often, I would say the youngest girls. I feel like more parents of toddler age girls, elementary school age girls will come in and talk to me about their rage, their girls feel. Even when they feel like they did something wrong, they're going to move it outwards so quickly and they blame their brother, they blame their friends, they blame their parents. But as you all have heard us say so many times, anger is a secondary emotion. And so I want to figure out what might be underneath that anger because I think often it's more about them than it is about the person that they're blaming. And the second, I think those girls who blame what happens is they hit a point where they realize it is not appropriate any longer to go outward with that blame and they internalize it and it becomes shame. I did this, I failed, I'm a failure, something is wrong with me and shame shuts down capability immediately. And then the third are the girls who control. They are the high achieving girls. They decide, I'll never fail again. And so they overwork, overperform, overachieve. They're the ones who are overcapable themselves to burn out. And I feel especially concerned about those girls and that control they're living in because I think so much is building inside of them that has to do with often anxiety at its root and can spill over into depression. And so we want to help girls learn to live with a sense of failure and we want to model that for them. So I'm going to say, let's jump into the help. I love that. So what are some practical tools for failure? You've got four things girls need to hear when they struggle with it. Will you walk us through those? Yes, four things I want to talk about with girls. Number one, I want girls to pay attention to how they talk to themselves. And I have asked so many girls sitting in my office, what's your voice like that you talk to yourself with? And girls will typically lower their heads and shake their heads rather than even wanting to respond. And I'll say, it's a pretty mean and they'll say, yes, every single time you guys, we want girls to learn how to talk to themselves the way they would to talk to a friend. Brennan Manning talks about when Jesus says whatever you do into the least of these you do into me, Brennan Manning says, sometimes the least of these is ourselves and helping girls see that because perfectionistic girls in particular are so harsh internally. So number one, pay attention to how you talk to yourself. Number two, know your triggers. When do you feel shame the most? When do you get angry at yourself the most? Is it when you're tired? Is it when you're stressed? Mine is when I've been around too many people so much of the time. Is it when you're comparing yourself? Awareness helps us shut it down before it hits the point where it's damaging to us or if we're a blamer to someone else. Number three, assume the best. Girls tend to believe they are really amazing mind readers and they assume the worst often about what other people think about them. And so helping them asking questions like, do you think there might be more to the story? What do you think was really going on with her? Learning to assume the best I think can be life changing for the girls that we love to soften that harsh voice. And four, I want girls to go for good enough. Perfection is exhausting. I will talk to girls about setting a goal for the lowest day instead of 104. Because if you were to ask girls to be honest about the goal they're setting for themselves, often it's 104, 110. And so what does it look like to go for a 90 or a 92 or a 94? Kate Bowler, who we love and respect so much, says, good enough faith is not reaching for the impossible. And too many girls today are reaching for the impossible. You know, we are firm believers that we all need a little more laughter and a whole lot more grace. And if you are raising a child with ADHD, dyslexia, autism or another learning and thinking difference, you know how intense some days can feel. The advocacy, the school meetings, the meltdowns, the moments when you wonder if you're getting any of it right. If that hits home, we recently found a podcast we think you'll really appreciate. It's called Everyone Gets a Juice Box for Parents of Neurodivergent Kids. Check out a few episodes, including one about parenting regrets after an ADHD and autism diagnosis, and another about how, quote, fine isn't always fine when it comes to dyslexia. You'll appreciate the tone, it's honest, it's warm, it's funny in the way that only parents who truly get it can be. You can hear the relief in their voices when they realize they're not alone. It feels like sitting down with other parents who understand the mysteries, the multiple diagnosis and the beauty in the middle of it all. If you could use that kind of community and encouragement, we really think you'll like it. To listen, search for Everyone Gets a Juice Box in your podcast app. That's Everyone Gets a Juice Box. 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I have a college friend that I'm talking to regularly right now who has the hardest time reaching out to someone new. Going to camp, sharing their opinions, using their voice, it impacts them in so many aspects of life. You say something so important here. The solution to anxiety is not avoidance. Exactly. Avoidance only strengthens anxiety. The only way for girls to work through fear, the only way for any of us to work through fear is to do the scary thing. So I want to say three truths about fear. Three things I want anxious girls to know, you're ready? Number one, girls who worry are really bright. Ever, I've counseled thousands of girls with anxiety at this point or who lean towards worry even every single one of them is really bright, really conscientious. They care so much, they're the most amazing kind of girls. It's just hard to turn the volume knob down on all that caring. Two, the way through fear is doing the scary thing. And three, I want every girl to know you are stronger than your fear. And we've got to give her opportunities to figure that out. You end this chapter with a beautiful scene from the movie, Prince Caspian, where Lucy tells Aslan, I wish I was braver. And Aslan responds by saying, if you were any braver, you would be a lioness. Makes me tear you thinking about it. I love that moment in that movie. You all watch Prince Caspian with your kids, any of the line in which the war grab movies. But that one with Lucy is so powerful and she has not used her voice. Throughout the movie, she has seen Aslan again and again and again. And her brothers and sister don't believe he's back and she doesn't use her voice. And so then she finally, he really comes to her and they have this moment where they're wrestling and talking. And she says, I wish I was braver. And he says exactly what David said, if you were any braver, you would be a lioness. By the way, if you have read the Lucy book, that's why I named my dog Lucy after that very moment. And then right after the next scene, Lucy walks out on this bridge to face this whole army and pulls out this teeny little dagger to fight him. And then Aslan walks up next to her, which I love even that image of reminding her that she's not alone in those moments. But I want every girl that sense of if you were any braver, you would be a lioness. That you have that much courage inside of you. I remember talking with a mom a long time ago and saying, I want you to start to say, you're so brave. And she said, I feel like that's just pressure. And I said, no, because it's not that you're saying you have to rise to being brave. It's the bravery is already there. I want girls to hear that truth. They need people to believe it into them until they believe it themselves, that they are little pillars in the making. So if you're listening today and you have a daughter that you love, remember this, her feelings will be big, her failures will feel personal, her fears will feel real, but she is still capable. She truly is. And our job is to remind her of that again and again, because every girl has the makings of a pillar inside of her. So next episode, we're going to flip rolls. You're going to interview me. We're going to talk about the challenges that boys face when it comes to capability. Until then, keep raising boys and girls who know they are capable. We're so in this with you. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris Sterrett, our engineer. Our management team at KCH. And we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.
