Surrender as a Way of Being with Luke Storey

Well, you guys are about to meet someone who is so incredibly important to me. Luke and I connected about a year ago and I flew to Austin and interviewed for his podcast and we just continued to keep in touch and he joined the mastermind and so all these things. And ever since the moment that I walked in the door, honestly, at Luke's house, there was a, there's this energy of being in the presence of someone who's magnificent. I can't say enough about him. I enjoy every minute of our conversations always. This one is going to blow you away. This one is what I would consider true Luke. I mean, he is the host of the Lifestylist podcast. For those of you guys who haven't heard of Luke's story, he also has a book coming out called A Horse Named Lonesome. And I cannot wait to read this book. It's been it's been in the making for a long time and anything Luke does, just like you'll see in this interview is just truly all of who he is. He's just the most giving authentic. And we even talk about the authenticity, you know, we talk about humility, which he has that we even talk about like a successful marriage. You know, he, he is in a very successful marriage with a wonderful woman. And so anyways, I can't say enough. I don't want to even hold you back from listening to this interview. I just, I'm so blessed. I'm so blessed to have had this conversation with Luke. I was shifted after I was changed after this conversation and it's my hope that you will be too. So here you go. Welcome, Luke. I am so, so excited to connect with you, to have this conversation. For those of you that don't know, Luke and I, I guess I was on your podcast last year, mid-year. It was just such an incredible experience. I flew to Austin. We did it here in person. And then you joined the Mastermind, and I got to know you more there. And now thank you for being here and doing this because I told you, you're like one of the most moving people I know. And I feel like I'm – Oh, thank you. And thank you for having me in your mastermind too. Yeah. It was so frustrating because it started right when I was in like the most intense deadlines. I'm writing a book, as you know. And so I finished the – kind of the first draft and then I got back the revisions. and I had maybe six weeks or so to get them back, and they were pretty extensive, and it coincided exactly with the start of your mastermind. I was just like, ah! Which most things in life, like you can carve out a couple hours a week to do something if you really want to do it. It was one of those situations where I'm like, I literally don't have two hours a week. But I was able to make it into enough of them, and I have the replays. You pulled it off, though, didn't you? I mean, as soon as I turned that book in, I was back on. You were. Yeah, you were. So you made both work. You made an and world, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. And you were a huge contribution too. Oh, cool. That's the thing. The way that you're always willing to share, you're always willing to put yourself in the fire in service of other people. You definitely have kind of an ongoing in-service vibe about you. And you did it in the mastermind. I think you do it on your podcast. I think that's one of the things, you know, we talk about like being the conduit or being the money conduit or magnetism or there's all these words that we can name for it. Right. But there's a certain frequency and energy when people walk in the room. Right. And it's just like I think that we're getting more and more attuned to like being able to feel that. And I think that we're getting more and more attracted to being around people like that, you know, and even incorporating that to a certain degree in business and what we do. And I mean, you're amazing at podcasting. Now you're writing a book and all that. Do you have like what are your thoughts on that? And you just reminded me of something funny. Speaking of business. Yeah. Because I'm – I just don't know any other way to be but to keep it real. I think because I was, for a number of reasons, so dishonest and so phony for a lot of my life, it's a lot of work to keep up a facade. Isn't it? You have to remember the lies and everything, right? And even just being performative. I mean, even if you're not overtly dishonest, I mean, I stopped doing that, you know, 30 years ago when I got sober. But just, I don't know, trying to protect oneself by projecting some sort of image or persona. Yeah. It's just so much work that I just can't do it. And also just doesn't, to be out of integrity just feels so bad. Yes, it does. You know, so one of the most positive pieces of feedback I get from people that I really take to heart and I'm deeply humbled by is, man, you're so authentic. You know, you just keep it real. And to me, that's just kind of a natural reflex. And I take that as a really high compliment because we're in a world of deception everywhere we turn. But I've had to learn in business that sometimes being too revelatory doesn't serve you, right? It's like leading with the chin. So going into a negotiation and trying to come to an agreement with someone, I'm just like, here, I'm going to be totally honest about everything I have going on. Yes. And sometimes that's not the smartest strategy. Not that you have to be dishonest, but sometimes, at least in business, I found it serves me to withhold a little bit and learn how to have some boundaries with that to accomplish a goal that's equitable for both parties, not just the other one. I know. You know what? I found that too. And this actually ties a little bit into when we talked on your podcast and we talked about how one of the things with you and money is that you're always like making sure everybody else is fine first and then you. And I know there was almost like a kind of like a version of that that came up in the mastermind when you were asking people for – you were going to go out and ask people for the – what do you call it? The foreword or whatever for your book? Endorsements. Endorsements, yeah, for your book. So how do you feel like – because, I mean, this is kind of like we're almost picking up in a way. You're talking about kind of the same concept. So do you feel like you've learned that in between sort of now and then? Or do you feel like that's something that is ongoing with you? I think it's an ongoing process for me. coming from the world of addiction recovery, which I'm still in, I'm not so much in the world in terms of being, you know, part of any specific groups, but, you know, addiction is part of my past. And when I was in addiction, I was in such desperation and survival mode that I became very self-centered and self-seeking. Everything was always geared around what I could get and how I could benefit because I needed to survive. You needed. There was that need there. That addiction created the need, didn't it? Yeah. And that's a very unfulfilling way to live, to say the least. So when I got sober, as soon as I kind of got my legs under me, I started having the opportunity to be of service and really help people in a meaningful way. And I just found that to be so fulfilling that I just became a giver. And it was like, wow, I really cracked the code on life and, I don't know, just purpose and just feeling so good to be able to help other people. And so in the process of orienting myself in that way, I think over time I kind of left myself out of that. And just like, oh, just make sure everyone else is taken care of. And I sort of forgot about myself that things need to be equitable. I think, yeah, it's like I existed in such a transactional world for so long. Once I was able to see that with clarity and move past that, I stepped out of transactional where I would be covertly expecting something in return if I helped someone. And then I began to just give zero expectations. The reward was plain and evident to me in that the reward was just in the act of service. And then just move on and don't expect anything back. When it comes to business, that is inherently transactional. It kind of needs to be in order for it to function. So it's been a learning process for me to make space for something that's transactional and beneficial to both parties and fair. But the hard part for me is to make sure it's fair to me, too. Yes. You know, so that's part of it. And then part of it is also digging deeper and more honestly. It's like issues around self-worth and feeling deserving. I was going to ask you about that. And also because, again, it's like double-edged sword of so many of these positive principles or qualities. Humility is something that I really value and really strive to maintain. You know, I really like to stay right-sized. And so in that, there's also a shadow side of humility. So it's like I think when people think of someone who lacks humility, they think of someone who's arrogant, right, or conceited, has a superiority complex. But there's also an inferiority complex on the other side of that. It's like the contrast side of ego. Ego can never just be neutral, right? It always has to find a position. It's kind of how we're wired. It's like a tribal instinct, right, to walk in a room and be like, oh, God. everyone's better than me or walk in a room and be like, I'm the shit, you know? Yeah. So I'm pretty good at not thinking too highly of myself, but it's more difficult to think high enough of myself. I see. Yeah. Or to see myself how other people see me. And that's it, right? Other people that appreciate and respect me, you know, it's like the way they see me is probably, unfortunately, a lot of the time in a higher place than I'm able to see myself. Yeah. And you saw that when you went out and asked for the endorsements for the book, right? Yeah. Yeah. You saw that, which was great. So, you know, this whole concept of transactional, because this is why I love these conversations too. I feel like it's like you and I feel like we're always in a co-creation and we're in a co-creation with like the energy of all the people who are also sort of like, we're all moving into this greater consciousness and we're trying to be like the modern day yogi millionaires, right? Like we all, we want to do it all, right? But then like how do we navigate all of this? You know, it feels like to me that transactional has the ability to move into a win-win situation. And that it's like almost feels like to me like transactional is the initial setup. It's almost like, OK, that's the beginning of the bridge. and then if I am constantly looking for what's a win-win, in order to look for a win-win, I must go over and get someone else's world. Whenever I find a win-win, that's the moment where I'm back in, if it's about money, it's money neutrality, right? I'm back in that I don't have to think about this anymore because when it's a win-win, I feel like there's a diminishment of the transactional nature because everyone's incentivized to, like, I don't have to think about is someone going to show up or do something or whatever, you know? Yeah. And then my energy suddenly gets freed up because I really think that's what we're looking for. We're looking for our energy to be freed up. And it's like, okay, great. Let's let money support that, right? We don't really want money, but we have to sort of like say we do and we have to like orchestrate our world to do that. But it's like, I really think that we just want our own energy back. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. In terms of money, it's interesting too because it's not the money, right? It's what we believe the money is going to provide. Yeah. What's on the other side of that? Yes. Kind of like in the manifestation game, which is a really popular kind of modality, I guess you could call it these days, right? What do we call it these days? Yeah, I don't know. Buzzword? Something that's become clear to me as there's, you know, I think it's healthy to have goals and to want to aim higher and, you know, elevate your life and things that you do. But I've noticed that so many things that I've worked for that I achieved didn't do what I thought they would do in terms of the fulfillment or excitement or whatever it was that I was looking for. And it's become clear to me that it's like getting the thing is not really the goal. The goal is getting the feeling that the thing is going to bring. So what if I can just jump to the feeling even though in this particular space and time nothing has changed? Something I think about often is having a second home because Austin is not great in the summer and the winter. It gets kind of monotonous here to me. As someone who's lived in places with a lot more variety of topography and nature and things like that. So I think, oh, man, okay. If I just had like a little organic farm in Costa Rica. It's funny. I thought you were going to say Costa Rica. You tapped in. I did. I was like, oh. So I'll think about that. And I'm on the internet looking at properties, looking at prices. Oh, maybe it's El Salvador. What about Hawaii? Too expensive. And I'm looking out there and it's like there's a natural and healthy desire for something that I want, but I'll find myself attaching the feeling to the achievement of that thing. When if I really stop and get present with myself, I know how to elicit the feeling of sitting on an organic farm in Costa Rica sitting right here with you. So why wait until I get that farm to have the feeling? What if I just put a little bit of intentionality in where I am in this moment? And then there's not so much the stakes get lower on whether I get the thing. Then it's a nice to have, not a need to have. And the resistance lowers. Yeah. And it becomes more fun, right? Then it's not like, oh, I got to get this thing. There's not this clutching, needing, wanting. There's less attachment to it. Maybe that would be the word. So it's like I can still set my sights on that thing and go for that thing, but I've sort of deflated it of the false promise that I believe it carries. I can stop and say, well, I can actually have that right now in a different way maybe. Yeah. And I would think with you, I mean, you come across – because of your podcast, I mean, you come across so many fascinating people. It seems like to me that you, as just an open channel of being you, I mean, you've literally designed your world to come in contact with the most fascinating people out there who are just – they're just co-creating with you over and over again to the degree that it's like you're creating – your world is kind of all the same, it seems like. And even, I mean, Allison is amazing and just all the stuff that you have going on. It's like you're always just you. And so it always just sort of comes in in a natural way. It seems like that. Do you find that? Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, I've been podcasting for 10 years. Yeah. And sometimes I think, man, is this what I do? Like, does this ever stop? Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that keeps me involved in it is the relationships that I'm able to create. Exactly. It's the people I get to learn from and meet people like you. Now you're in my world. I'm in your world, right? And it's like I don't know that that would have happened. Maybe we could have met through mutual friends or something. Because even if I saw you at a restaurant and we were like, hey, hi, how are you? I mean it's just – it's a different context. I don't know if I give myself more permission when it comes to, you know, podcasting or connecting with people. I don't know because maybe I do actually because if I were just to like meet you or meet anyone at a restaurant, I don't even know that I would even go into like the level of allowing and the sort of edginess that I do with conversations like this, right? I feel like I show up as truly who I am in these conversations, which leads me to believe that, okay, well, there's something to look at. It's not that I'm different in the rest of my life. I think my state of allowing is different in the rest of my life. I mean, that's the power of independent long-form media. Yeah. That's why it's crushing legacy media of sound bites and scripted, phony shit. It's like people want truth. They want authenticity. And you need time to create that, right? You do, yeah. That's why I've never been able to do, like, people do, like, a one-hour podcast, which I tried to do in the beginning. I was like, this is not going to work. I'm way too long-winded and too interested in all the things I'm talking to someone about. But it's like I find, you know, it's like getting to know anyone. It's a process and it takes little time. You learn to read body language and nuance and learn someone's communication style and their energy and find resonance, find rhythm with them. It takes a little time to kind of ramp that up. And then what I find in the conversations I have, like I had a beautiful one this morning with Steven Pressfield. And he was a guy where he sat down and we were just in the pocket from the second we started. But there are other times where it's like, it's a little crunchy. You know, I'm trying to get a read on the person. They're trying to get a read on me. And it's like if I only had 30 minutes, I wouldn't have that kind of depth. And I think it would deliver a lot less value to the listeners if I didn't really take the time to go deep, you know. And sometimes it's like three and a half, four hours. And I kind of just go until I feel the energy is complete. It's like when people come over, they're like, how long do we go for? I really don't know. It's up to you. I remember that. I love that. You keep the energy popping or we collectively keep the energy popping. We go as long as I feel like I've asked everything I could possibly ask. Also, I don't know if I'm ever going to see someone again. You know what I mean? That's a good point too, yeah. So it's like the guy that came over this morning, beautiful guy, great writer, really inspirational. and so if I only had him for 30 minutes, he would leave and I go, oh man, I should have asked him X, Y, and Z. So it's like I really want to fill my tank when I have the opportunity to sit down with someone and also I want whoever's listening to feel like, okay, I have no questions left either. Yeah. Do you feel like you're pulling in the energy of the writers now and kind of that world because now that you are writing the book and all that. Like, is that kind of like, do you feel like that's kind of your next thing? I don't know. It's funny. I was in ChatGPT this morning doing a little strategizing, just having to analyze my podcast and downloads and things like that because there are so many people podcasting now. The climate is quite saturated. And so I felt like when I started in 2016, it was already played out. I was like, felt late to the game. Oh, wow, isn't that funny? And now it's like, whoa, everyone and their mom has a podcast. So there's this sort of sense of competition in a way. So I was looking at, you know, why is my show not scaling and growing like it used to just sort of do organically? I just – the thing that I locked onto early was consistency. So I've never missed a show. It's been out every Tuesday for 10 years, you know. And when I listen to podcasts and they just ghost, it pisses me off. I'm like, dude, your show's come out every Thursday. Where are you? Yes. I'll come back if I really like it. Right. But I just. You'll come back mad, but you'll come back, right? Yeah, exactly. Begrudgingly, I can't resist. And this first episode better be good, right? It's like trying to break up with someone and you can't. Exactly. But so I was doing a little analysis this morning, just is it, you know, which topics are really hitting, which kind of guests and stuff. And it had some great insights. I didn't really read too deeply into it because I had to get over here. But I was thinking about that and I've always just kind of followed my curiosity. And so I go through different phases of life where I want to learn more about a certain thing, right? So it might have been a year where I was really into psychology and trauma and addiction recovery or whatever, right? And then I started working with psychedelics and now I'm really into that and biohacking, whatever it is, money, finance, business. So it's kind of tailored by whatever I'm interested in. So it's not that like right now I feel like I'm going to have more writers on or focus on that. It's just I'm paying more attention to people when they come and sit down and they have a book because now I know what that entails. Yeah. Right. So oftentimes, you know, when someone comes on a podcast, they're promoting something. They're not just doing it for fun. Yes. So now I think I just have a greater reverence for people who write meaningful, substantial books. So I don't think I'll change anything. It's just like, whoa, when someone comes in, like Stephen Pressfield today, I'm just like bowing at the feet of a master. Whereas before I thought, oh, he has some cool insights. That's neat. He wrote a book. And now I'm like, whoa. To write a book that's a perennial seller that really impacts a lot of lives is a huge undertaking. It is. And does that sort of pull you towards like, you know, it's because, you know, we talked about this even on your podcast, how it's like everything is set by our standards. Like we're operating based on our standards. Right. And so does that sort of raise your standard to a certain degree? I feel like it does just energetically when even just you said that because that felt meaningful to you when you said those those words. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I've been looking at that a lot. Standards. Yeah. I had an incredible experience a couple months ago. I worked with a healer who does, his name's Kyle Corsi, and he does, I don't even know how to describe it in a concise way. He does body work and he does some version of kind of talk therapy. And the whole experience can last anywhere from 15 to 20 hours. And about half of that is body work. Like forever. And so the way he sets it up is it all about learning how to receive and learning how to love yourself and allowing yourself to be loved So you just talk forever about everything in your life And he kind of double clicks things and he kind of checking your body language and he taking cues So he knows what to do when you eventually get on the table About 10 of the people he works with will take some plant medicines or psychedelics for the body work part. Of course, knowing that was an option, I elected to do that. Yes, please. Well, I've had so many of those experiences where I'm like, oh God, I wish I could be touched right now. I feel things kind of stuck in the body. I'm having my own little personal somatic experience that is yoked to a spiritual or intellectual kind of awakening or understanding. And I've had so many times where I'm like, ah, I'm getting there spiritually. I'm understanding things intellectually with the assistance of these allies. But there's things in the body that I can't really get to myself, you know? So I've always wanted that. So I jumped at the opportunity. One of the many insights that came through in that experience, which is so, I mean, it's so transformative. And I've done a lot of crazy transformational stuff. You know, I'm not easy to impress when it comes to like that kind of thing, because I'm just full on. I just, that's how I roll. But this one, I was like, whoa, okay. So on the standards, since I've been with my wife, Allison, we've been great teachers for one another because she has such clear boundaries and she has such high standards for people and for herself. She's just a very integrous person. She has very high integrity. And I consider myself an integrous person in terms of I'm honest and fair and do what I say I'm going to do and all that kind of stuff, right? But she just has this more – it's more in the spiritual realm and her intuition and insight and her natural capacity as an oracle and a seer is so strong that throughout our relationship, I felt at times that she's like a little too harsh. Not with me. she holds me up to be the highest king I'm meant to be so I welcome that from her right because I know she's really wise and she's only ever trying to lift me up if she you know sees something in me that needs a little refinement but with other people it's been interesting because I come from a world of really broken people and I've also witnessed incredible transformation in people and I've helped to facilitate and bear witness to so many of those transformations. So when I was in addiction recovery, I was around a lot of really sick people and I was really sick in the beginning. Well, not just in the beginning, for quite a while. You discover there's levels to the game, right? You kind of fix one issue and you realize like, oh, it just sort of transposed into sex or whatever. I got rid of the drugs and alcohol and there was a lot of other work to do. But the point being is having empathy and compassion and meeting people where they are and seeing someone's light. I don't know why they just hit me. I guess just because it's a really beautiful human experience, you know. Yeah. But I can see someone in complete distortion. And I can see through that to who they really are. And if I'm working with someone in the capacity of trying to help them, that's what I see. I see past that, which is a beautiful gift to have. But it also requires a lot of discernment because if you can see past someone's distortions to who and what they really are, to their essence, it's also easy to bypass their distortions and put yourself in a compromised position. In other words, like boundaries get really funky and fluid when you're able to see past that. Yes. With Allison, she has a much harder time with forgiveness, accepting someone as they are, having compassion for them at times, right? because she's just so hard-lined in her boundaries because she has such insight. What she sees when she sees someone in distortion is she sees all the permutations of their distortions. I mean she could just pick someone apart. It's just like weaving a tapestry for her. She can scan someone's energy field and just nail them. you know? So in the course of our relationship, we've had a really good symbiotic co-teaching in that I help her to be more understanding and compassionate and to know there's a real pristine soul behind every fucked up person and that you can love that person and still not interact with them. Right. And so that's been good for me, you know, to kind of model that for her. For her, she's taught me how to have boundaries and not be naive and not be a dumbass and allow our field to become distorted because I let someone in that I'm trying to help, right? So she's really taught me about boundaries and standards because our standards are really high. So I've thought, okay, so I'm in this experience with Kyle and, you know, I'm on a massage table and my head's in the hole, you know, and I'm like. I'm on a lot of mushrooms. And he's working my body really hard, right? So, you know, there's just a lot of transmutation going on. And I started thinking about how low my standards have been. It just started to occur to me. I was like, oh, my God. I mean, people that I've hired, friends that I've had, relationships, personal and business, the shit that I've put up with, It just started to become so clear to me how little I have been willing to settle for. And it was alarming and funny also. Wow. And then I started thinking about Allison and I'm like, oh, my God. I see why her standards are so high. And then what I realized was her standards aren't high. They're just appropriate. it's the standards that you're supposed to have, right? They're not elevated or inflated. It's just like if you have a healthy sense of self and you have healthy boundaries and you value yourself and you know your own worth, then your standards are set at an appropriate level for that level. And what I discovered was that the standards that I deserve based on the work that I've done and who I am are much lower. So there's an incongruence there in terms of my standards. So that's why comparatively hers seemed high to me. It's only because mine were low. Both of ours are actually right in the middle of where they should be. Does that make sense? Yes. And there's almost like a moral justification for yours because there's a do-good aspect to having low standards, but there's also a self-betrayal with having standards. And that self-betrayal is like an eroding of what we even have to give away. So the whole thing becomes like the snake eating its tail, right? Like, you know, we talk about we want the freedom of our own energy. Well, that giveaway, which becomes normalized. So with you, you've probably lived your whole life on that level, right, with that standard to a certain degree. Now you have expanded in your consciousness, especially lying on the table and opening your mind like that. So I think what you're saying, if this is right, is like you suddenly realized that there was like a giant mismatch. Yeah, exactly. Based in a lack of self-love at the core of it. And what do you feel like you either did in that moment as far as like, you know, sometimes we take full accountability for raising our standards, or what do you feel like you've done since then that sort of brought you, like has merged the two worlds? Well, one thing I did is I, many times actually during the experience, is I vocalized and declared what my standards are. And then I'm not willing to settle for any less ever, especially for myself. Well, and that's the thing too, because like I think there is almost, you know how the English language, sometimes we don't have like the words that translate the things. I think that there could almost be two words for it because standards on one side, it's like, oh, well, you must do this or else you can't be in my world. That's like the uncle that never stops talking that you don't want to be around, right? Like I don't want to be around you. That's my standard. Versus like a standard that is the self-expression of us. Like we're willing to do that too. It's almost like can we be willing to be the self-expression of that standard first, then go out into the world. Otherwise, it carries that element of you must do this, I don't. It carries a judgment. There's that mismatch back in our face again. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I don't require anything from anyone that I'm unwilling or unable to bring to the table myself. So if I can bring unflinching honesty, unconditional love, yada, yada, whatever it is, which I know I can and do, and why would I be willing to accept anything else? It's like think about going to a gathering and the difference between small talk amongst 20 people that you rotate in and out of or depth and intimacy and wonder and intrigue and curiosity with four people or two people or one other person. So it's like my standards of walking in a room is I want depth. And if we can't reach depth, you better at least entertain me. And that's what I'm willing to bring. So whatever level I'm willing to meet someone, my requirement, my standard is that they're willing to meet me there. I had an experience a few days ago where I was in a conversation with a few people and it got kind of deep. It just suddenly we're like, whoa, we're kind of getting you know personal and deep here and um i was really happy to swim in those waters that's the kind of conversations i like to have otherwise it's kind of like what are we doing here not that everything has to be serious but i mean just in terms of getting real and just being authentic about what's going on in our life so that we can learn from each other get to know one another like i'm i'm after intimacy i'm after connection i mean that's why i wrote a book about loneliness. It's like, what is connection and what is blocking me from the experience of it? And a lot of times connection is based in your connection to yourself and to whatever you believe God to be. And then out of that, kind of build your capacity for connection with other people in terms of the depth. And it was interesting because I could feel one of the people present was very resistant to that. And I was just not judging. I was just observing like, yeah, they're not leaning in. It's like three of us are really leaning in and like, we're going here. Cool. Let's go. And we're not on plant medicine or anything. It's just, we're just hanging out. And so it gave me information about the one that was having a hard time leaning in. It's useful information. So it's like now I have an understanding of the level of depth that might be there versus some other people in my life. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to be friendly with that person or maybe try to go deeper with them if they're willing to in a different setting or dynamic. but it was a good indicator of what someone's limits are. And so I just kind of take note of that and hope that in the future, maybe in a different situation, they might be able to or more willing to push past those limits and to have more depth. So it's not like, oh, I'm not going to be friends with that person. Just like, oh, that's good to know. Okay. We're all kind of, there's some momentum here to the conversation. It's getting really interesting and someone's like not having it. So my standard for relationships is that someone's able to go where I'm able to go, hopefully further. I mean I love it when somebody outreels me. It's like you're really good at that. I'm meeting your mastermind. I'm like shit, dude. She's just pulling covers around here. No one's getting away with anything. They don't, do they? No. I mean it's great. Like where else are you going to get that? I mean, I think that's why people come to someone like you and sign up for, you know, some sort of mastermind or course or something. It's like if we were able to get there on our own, then we wouldn't sign up. That's what we're there for. No, you're exactly right. And we kind of do talk about that, you know, as far as like we go out in the world and it's just kind of like we're just bopping along, right? And then we either create these relationships or we involve ourselves in certain containers or even like the podcast world, right? Like we just said, we put ourselves in certain conversations where I think that that's sort of like where the standards almost can reveal themselves to us. because what I feel in that mastermind, like, I mean, I can barely even talk about it. I mean, you've seen it. Like, that's the ultimate for me. I mean, it really is because I feel like I'm holding, and I just realized this in this moment, like, can I do this in a broader? Like, can I do this everywhere? That's always, like, you know, what I'm looking at. But, like, because I feel like I'm kind of learning micro lessons. But I feel like I can hold, I can feel the bigger version of them. Yeah. Like, I literally fall in love with them. Yeah, I can tell. You know? And what is that, Luke? I mean, why is it that state of allowing there? Well, what you just described to me is what I was speaking to earlier is there's someone on a surface level, areas in which they're stuck, patterns that they're playing out, cycles that they're caught in, right? And some of us, you included, have a real gift for like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that shit's there. What's behind that? What's on the other side of that? Yeah. Right? And that's the real gift is to be able to create a safe space where when you're able to point out some of the areas in which someone's stuck, they're in a place of maturity and trust where they can actually hear that and not feel that you're attacking who the real person is behind that. But it's like you're dismantling the walls. You're not attacking the garden behind the wall. You're trying to get to the garden behind the wall. But first, we need to identify there's some bricks here and some rocks here and some cement here. Let's get past that. And if somebody comes into your orbit and gives you consent, which is inherent to your mastermind, you're signing up and going, hey, you're the sensei here. There's equality, obviously. There's an agreement to it. There isn't it. Yeah. There's an agreement that you're the way shower and everyone has their own brilliance and expertise. and someone in your mastermind could be a way shower for you in another category of life, right? Right. But we're there to learn from you. Therefore, it's going to serve everyone that's enrolled to lower their defenses and be in a place of trust and curiosity and open-mindedness and humility so they can learn. I mean, one of the things that take away, there's a lot of takeaways. One that I got from you, though, is sometimes the way you would describe your experience of your life and how you roll. And I feel pretty accomplished and integrated, self-realized. I figured some stuff out. One of the things you said, you go, oh man, I can't remember the last time I felt overwhelmed. You're like, overwhelmed? It must've been like 10 years. I'm sitting there on the Zoom going like, dude, I'm overwhelmed right now, son. I was going through some shit that day. I was like, My head is about to blow off my shoulders. I am so overwhelmed and stressed out and just like have this internal field of chaos going on because it just seems like more than I can handle and all of that. So looking at you and your declaration of your experience, it's like I want that. You have something that I want. I want to be able to say I haven't felt overwhelmed in 10 years. And so that, you know, that desire then, at least for me, allows me to be teachable and to lower those defenses and, you know, just to be open and vulnerable in the questions I'm asking and things like that. And that's what I observed with a lot of the other participants, right? They're like, hey, I want what she has. So what do you have to say? And I don't remember anyone like defending themselves or putting up walls. Everyone just like, you got me. and then it's like okay cool that's great let's move on then what's on the other side of that right like let's not focus on everything that's wrong and all the ways you're stuck and all your patterns like cool that needs to be identified because they're always going to be there to some degree but it's like what does it look like on the other side of that you know yeah we'll see can i live in a way where i never become overwhelmed i'm very interested in that how the hell do you do that? You know, this is, and this is what is so, one of the things that's so fascinating about you is that I am now seeing, because you're such an open channel, I am now seeing myself, this is so funny, I'm now seeing myself on the outside of the mastermind as if I'm like experiencing it because I'm hearing you talk about your experience. And so even just hearing you said, like, I remember the day that we talked about that. I remember you in your chair, right? And then I remember all the other people and da-da-da. I was sitting there going, try not to bite your nails on camera. Right. And it's funny because I see now that I'm not actually my real self outside of the mastermind, perhaps. I am truly, truly, I would say that's, that's, there are times in our lives where we're truly who we are, right? I mean, we could say like with our intimate partner, or with a parent, or like, I can honestly say like, the mastermind is, I don't know why I give myself so much more permission. There's something to this that I can't even put my finger on it yet, but I'm seeing it now through you, is that there's something I'm not revealing outside of the mastermind. I never saw that before. Well, you're in your zone. Because I never would have said that. Here's the thing. I never would have said that outside of the mastermind. Mm-hmm. But it's 100% true. Why did I not say that before? I think that's your zone of genius, right? When you're in your zone of genius, you're in flow. And so there are less limitations. There's a spontaneity and there's something, there's a current that is stronger and more prevalent underneath the noise. You know, so when we're out in our regular life, yeah, we might be real with people, but not our full self because there's so many different things that you're trying to hold at once. whereas like when I see you and your mastermind and you're leading the group it's like that is your top skill set or one of them right you're in your zone of genius and so there's no room for the neuroses and the ego and the intellect to get in there and interrupt it's just like there's this still point the zero point yes and when you're in a state of flow there's no room for anything else but authenticity that's right you know it's just like there's no thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it feels like. It feels like in the mastermind, it's like you did that. It's exactly what it feels like. Like a curtain gets drawn, like everything else goes out here. Nothing else exists except that, right? Yeah. It's a very spiritually charged moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you have those as well. You have those in conversations. You have those in your podcast. You have those. And maybe I do, too. Maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit for it as well. That is just I just saw, though, you know, I was talking actually to Karen about this yesterday. I interviewed her yesterday. And I was talking about this to her that I feel like I'm actually my most authentic when I am being inauthentic because that's the point I'm discovering how to be more authentic. And I just am going through that right now. Like I'm discovering that my inauthenticity outside of the mastermind, not as a function of being bad, you know, I'm as real as I could be up to that point. Now I can be more if we're using the word real, right? But it's interesting because I've been, you know, you've been like noodling around this word standard. I've been doing the same thing with authenticity because I've been like, oh, my God, this word. People are just like, oh, my God, I want to be my authentic self. And then people go and they sit in a, you know, go to a yoga class or they do something that makes their body feel good. and they're feeling authentic or they share something. But you could share something that's being totally irrelevant and that's you being more authentic, but that's not really putting value out into the world, right? So I have been looking at this. People are designing their lives about being authentic, but authentic is still ego because you're still deciding that you're being authentic. And I've been looking for this departure from that in order to find more authenticity. Does this make sense? Yeah, I think if authenticity is performative, it negates itself. It does, doesn't it? Authenticity is just what happens when you set aside performance and when you set aside the mind and all of the things that aren't inherently true to who you really are. You know what I mean? And it's like – So if I have to tell you I'm being authentic, I'm not being authentic. Yeah. It's like if I want to see the real wall there, I don't need to do anything except take the paint off. It's like the wood wall doesn't need to come forward and be I'm authentic. It just when that is removed same like on a cloudy day like today the sun hasn gone anywhere It feels like it It looks like it But if those clouds weren there the sun is still there The sun doesn need to be authentic The sun just needs for the clouds to get out of the way so it can be revealed That's how I think about it. I'm never trying to be like – Yes, yes. I'm never trying to be authentic. I'm just making an effort to not be phony. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. You know, it's just like the authentic me doesn't – I don't need to go find that guy. It's just sometimes covered up by protection, projection, whatever. Yeah. What do you think are the things that would drive you to inauthenticity if there were a way to identify that? Wanting approval. That's probably the biggest one for me. Yeah. From like the world? Yeah. Yeah, fear of being judged, fear of being rejected, fear of being alone. I feel like it's very minuscule for you, though, but I don't know. I mean, I have my moments. You know, when I'm feeling really centered, yeah, if I'm on point and I'm doing what I need to do to stay in my own field and be self-resourced and I'm really taking care of myself, then I find I'm less influenced by what other people think. Because you don't need that. That gives me the freedom. Yeah, it's like the more we can learn how to like and love ourselves, the less we try to outsource that to other people. And I'm really inspired when I meet people too, even if they lack, even if they're uncouth and sort of abrasive, I really appreciate people that just don't give a fuck what anyone thinks. I know, huh? Even if I don't like them, I'm just like, hey, you're not really my flavor of person, but like respect. Like Donald Trump is a great example of that. Like it's not someone, you know, I don't want to get people triggered or anything, but it's not someone I would want to hang around with, someone I would aspire to be, someone I trust, someone I like. I don't think he's a good person, an honest person. I think he's a narcissist and a complete nut job. But one thing I appreciate about him is he gives less – like minus 10. He gives zero fucks. Yeah. I'm just like, wow. I think it's – my assessment would be it's coming from a place of unconsciousness more so than – Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say, yeah, I want to be authentic like Donald Trump. But he's one example that comes to mind as a very extreme. I mean, think about, God, if I don't really get any press, but if I had a lot of bad press, I don't know, it'd be maybe hard not to take it personally. You have people like that, public figures especially, who are just seemingly completely impervious to being hated, and they just seem to be able to let it roll off. That's more difficult for me, but becoming easier the more I don't hate myself. Yes. You know, the more I love myself, it's like, I know I'm not for everyone. I'm not supposed to be for everyone. There's billions of people out there that are great people and they're not for me either. Yeah. In other words, like, the less tethered I am to the ego and the persona of who I am, the less attached I am to people liking that. Because if somebody likes me or dislikes me that doesn't really know me, they're only getting the superficial version of me anyway. They don't even really know what they're disapproving of. They don't. You know what I mean? Yes. Whereas if my wife has a problem with me, I take that very seriously. It means there's something wrong because she knows who I really am. If my wife disapproves of me, it's going to be for a really good reason and probably something that I want to look at. Well, and if she disapproves of you, it's also coming from love. It's less likely that it's coming from being about her. 100%. And it's not even disapproving of me. It's disapproving of something I'm doing that is actually not true to me. Right. Right. Yes. So I'm completely accepted and loved unconditionally for the real me. Yeah. When the neurotic, wacky or ego-identified me shows up, it's like, hey, that thing, that's not you. I don't accept that. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Which is a real gift, you know, to have someone in your life that has enough emotional maturity and has done enough work on themselves where they know how to kindly help you see things you can't see in a way that isn't projecting or trying to punish or control or anything like that. I'm so glad that you said that because I feel like what you're talking about right now, and I know you and Allison do amazing podcasts together where you guys talk about relationships and things like that. I feel like that's kind of like the next era that we're moving into relationship-wise. Like it could be intimate, it could be friendship, but really shows up strongly in intimate relationships. And that would be this holding space and just allowing someone to sort of find and configure themselves within it. I think that we're so like overcooked with this advice, do it this way, or you need to change so that I can be happier, or you need to do this for me, blah, blah, like transactional, kind of what we talked about, right? I think that we're going through like the evolution of relationships, which to me feels like it's speeding us up in terms of seeing our own greater conscience. Because I think ultimately, at least when I find myself in those situations where someone like – it feels like love when someone will just hold space for me. And then they will offer a few things in or maybe I'll ask or whatever. I'm almost energetically drawing an answer out of them rather than like superimposing it on me. Um, what it does is it allows me to quickly step into the next version of me. And what it really feels like, honestly, is it feels like safety to me. Yeah, I agree. You know, and providing that in a way. And that's probably even just talking about going back to the mastermind a little bit. I think that for me, I think there's an element of safety in there for me, which if I'm experiencing it, then the other people probably are experiencing it. Because I think that's what we're doing. We're sort of putting ourselves into these little micro worlds where – because really it's just us. Like ultimately it's me and me. It's you and you, right? And you talked about like the thing from Donald Trump, like the give no fucks, right? So there is, I think, a part of you who would, leaving everything else behind about him, there's just the essence of a human being that is walking around that gives no fucks that you're like, maybe, where is that in me, right? And then we drop that and then we see the next human. And I think that's ultimately it. We're dropping it. But if it's not within us or we're not drawing it in, we can't see it in them. And just to be clear, my version of giving zero fucks would look a lot different than Donald Trump's. Of course. I wouldn't use that as a hall pass to be a dick to people. I think it's like I had a teacher one time that said we were talking about humility. And it's really interesting when you meet someone who is highly successful and celebrated in their life. It's interesting to see people to me that are attractive or people that are the same person regardless of what the setting is. So think of like a high-powered CEO is treating the janitor when he walks in the building the same way he's treating his superior or his executive suite or whatever, right? It's like being the same person wherever you go. You can do that if you don't need things from people. Yeah. That's the zero fucks part that I'm always aiming for is just, you know, can I walk into an environment with other people and feel equal regardless of the optics? Can I walk into a room of people that maybe make less money than me or doing less, I don't know, public jobs or whatever it is and not feel better than them? Yeah. Right? I can't think of an experience where that would happen, but whatever. I go into Walmart and way out in East Texas or wherever. I'm not walking in there like, you know how much this shirt costs? I got my cool glasses. You know, it's like seeing myself as just seeing the humanity in everyone, but also, you know, going to an event where there's a bunch of famous people, wealthy people, and just being the same guy, being the same guy wherever I go. You know, that's a real aspirational goal for me. I don't know. Like, I feel like you've got that mastered. I mean, I feel like I kind of have that master. I feel like you do, too. Well, I think outwardly I do. But sometimes there's an incongruence with the way I feel. I never feel better than other people. Well, that's not true. During COVID, I felt better than a lot of people, I'll be honest, because I was just like, wow, these brainwashed sheeps are going to kill the rest of us because they keep going along with this shit. There was a bit of judgment in there. But I still feel that sense of less than or inferiority at times. But it's like the witness observer part of myself that I've been cultivating for so long catches it before I start to act on it. Right. So if I'm trying to impress people or something, it's like before you even outwardly act a certain way, I'm already going to be aware that I had the thought or the feeling that is the impetus to do that. And so it's like it's being stopped before it actually manifests. But it doesn't mean I don't have those thoughts and feelings, right? It's just like, oh, no. So it's somewhere still in there is what you're saying. At times, yeah. But I think there's – for me, there's so much power in self-awareness. And that's why I'm such a huge advocate for meditation, whatever that looks like for people. I've gone through all sorts of phases over 30 years. But so I don't have any recommendations on how to do it or not do it. I think practices like that, modalities like that, just, you know, we need different things at different levels of our development. So I did Vedic meditation for a long time, you know, with the mantra. I did the Jodha Spenza meditations. I use this app called New Calm a lot now. That's kind of my thing because it just drops you into a theta state really fast. It's a lot less work. Plant medicines, you know, that kind of thing. So everyone has their own sort of modality that's appropriate. But I think the goal for me with a lot of that is to get in the practice of stepping outside of myself and observing myself. Yes. So it's like as you and I sit here and have a conversation, there's the Luke show. It's real. But it's still the persona, right? It's still like me identify as Luke, white male, 55 years old. I do these things in my career. This is my wife. It's like the story of who I am. Yes. The story of Luke's story. Like there's a part of me that's sitting up here that's observing the phenomenon of what the persona is up to. Yes. Right? And so that's why even an example like this, I'm on the road and somebody cuts me off and I feel a little threatened. Before I'm reaching out the window, flipping them off, there's already a governor in place that sees like, oh, your nervous system just got a little frightened. Relax. Calm down. I just keep driving. You know, it's like there's a resilience that comes with that because there's a time delay of reactivity. Or in the case of walking in a room and being able to just be free and liberated and be your best self, there's a time delay when I'm feeling small or feeling big. And then that time delay allows me to sort of catch it before I start to dig myself into a hole of feeling uncomfortable. Yes, of course it does. Because when you see the time delay, then the time diminishes. diminishes. Yeah. Like you're, you're, you're big on no time. Yeah. Don't get me started on that. I could do a whole podcast on no time. I mean, I love that. I love that. That's something I think I need to work on in the ways that you do, but that, I think that makes life really interesting. I mean, not like your, your model of the no time thing is, is a little bit more in depth, but speaking from couching it as self-awareness of just being able to be in the observer position in your life so that meditation isn't just something that you do for 20 minutes every morning. It's like, wow, can I maintain that same level of presence and awareness no matter what's going on? Great example. I'm trying to find this studio. I don't come downtown a lot. I haven't lived in like a city in a while. They don't come into the city of Austin much. And I'm kind of like, I'm looking at my GPS thing. I'm like, is it in Whole Foods? Like what's going on here? You know, I'm like getting a little flustered. I can't find parking. I'm like, cool. I'm watching myself get a little flustered because I don't want to be late. I don't, you know, I want to be professional. I don't want to disappoint you. I don't want our time to get cut off and, you know, not get to have a really rich experience with you. Get out of the car, kind of poke outside, still lost. It's rain. I'm soaking wet by now for those listening or watching. I am freezing right now. Like my teeth are chattering. If you're wondering why I'm talking weird, I am freezing. And I'm observing that freeziness right now. And I'm observing the insecurity around that I'm kind of talking weird because my teeth are chattering. Oh, my gosh, yeah. So because I see it, I can just roll past it. Yes. So, you know, I go up into the Whole Foods, ask the security guard, is this 902 or whatever, Fifth Street? He's like, I don't know, man. I go, what's the address right here? He goes, I don't know, man. You work here, dude. Is there a sign up right? But I'm seeing myself get, I don't know, triggered is not the right word. I'm getting antsy. I'm getting anxiety, right? And then I'm like walking up and down the street and went back to my car to get an umbrella because I keep, I don't know, I just collect them, you know? So I usually when I like I'm cleaning my car, I'm like, God damn it. I have six umbrellas in here. Like we've got to get rid of some of these. At some point, I must have gotten rid of all of them. Yeah. I went to my car, no umbrella. But the whole time that that's happening, it's like there's also the higher version of myself that's watching me in my folly and laughing its ass off. Right. I'm not quite laughing. I'm getting a little pissed. I'm texting my team. What the fuck? I can't find the place. I'm frustrated. Right. but I'm not taking it all that seriously because there's a part of me that's like, I don't know. It's like, I'm up there, like an out of body experience sort of thing. I'm like watching Luke run around fifth street, getting all wet. He's all, you know? And so it's like, I'm allowing myself to have a real expression of whatever frustration or anxiety I'm having. So I'm not, I'm not like stifling that or suppressing that, but I'm also not buying into it to the point where my day is going to be ruined. So I walk in here, like, can you guys turn the AC down? No, we can't do that. Do you have a towel? Yeah, he gives me a little towel. I kind of wipe off. I go to the bathroom. I reset. I'm like, you're going to be cold, but you can do this, Luke. And by the time we start talking, I'm having the best time ever. Like none of that ever happened, right? Where there would have been a time in my life for a very long time where a couple little drops of rain and my entire world just implodes and I'm stuck in that for hours or days or weeks. I'm just completely without agency of my experience, completely subject to my perception of the experience and have no control over how I'm framing it or perceiving it. Yes. So even if I'm in the rain, I wouldn't choose that experience I had today. That wasn't ideal. But it was a great opportunity to practice. Can I keep that same level of meditative awareness, acceptance, surrender, equanimity when I'm not getting what I want, when I'm not getting my way, when I'm cold and wet and frustrated? Can I still laugh at myself? Yeah. I even saw – this is great. I mean this kind of thing is so fun to me. I watched my mind get pissed at the guys that washed my car and I got some juice out of blaming them for taking the umbrellas out. And immediately I saw myself, I go, I actually don't know that that's true. Reality is I probably took them out when I was cleaning out my car and I didn't put them back in. Right? So it's like I could have believed that story and been all pissed off at the car wash guys or something, you know? Yes. But I'm always questioning reality. I'm always questioning the reality that I'm latching on to. It's like I'm doing much better than ever at not taking thoughts at face value. I have a thought about something and go, oh, this feels pretty good to believe this. Does it really? Does it really feel that good to be pissed at my car wash guys? Or even if I found that I did it, does it feel good to be pissed at myself? You idiot, Luke. Why'd you do that? Now you're out in the rain. It's totally counterproductive when it could actually just be a fun story to talk about on a podcast. That's true. You know? That's true. And there's a spiritual lesson in it for me and maybe someone listening. You know? It's like, wow. The whole game is perception. It's the whole game. everything. So for someone that's listening now and they're like, okay, I get it. I get what he's saying. I get, and I want to be able to do that. Because I know you talk about all kinds of stuff on your podcast, like things to do and blah, blah, blah. And then you have your whole life. And like, I guess, is there, and maybe there's no answer to this, but if you could strip away everything and say, all right, there's this handful or one thing that you would keep that would sort of preserve and continue to expand what you're talking about, what would it be? the practice of acceptance and acceptance as a ladder to surrender it's like i'm out in the rain i can't fully surrender to that because it's very uncomfortable Yes. But I can accept in the immediate situation that this is where I am and this is what's happening. Underneath acceptance of less consequential things that happen in life, the check didn't come, you didn't get your way, you lost your job, the IRS sent you a letter. They like to send me a lot of letters. I bet they do. I'm really popular with them. I know. They're like, we've heard his podcast sent him a letter. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sometimes I think about that. I'm like, dude, you're publishing this publicly. Exactly. But it's like the foundation of my life is surrender and trusting in God and trusting that there is a power that is available to me all the time if I just allow it to be here. So surrender is more of like a foundational way of being where I really trust that I don't know what's good for me and that there is an intelligence, a loving force there that does. So acceptance of the little inconveniences in life and the things that I think I want or need that I don't get or things that I'm clinging to that I lose. It's like learning how to live in a place of acceptance is what got me to a deeper place of surrender. And also conversely, when I got to a point in my life where I literally didn't know how to keep my body alive because I was so addicted to drugs, I surrendered and complied with treatment and getting into recovery. So there was like a really big foundational surrender of just throwing out my hand saying, man, I can't do this. I need help. And I'm sure it was your body and then it was also your mind. Everything. Everything had to be in agreement with you. Yeah. So there's like a foundational surrender. And when I leaned into that, the evidence was clear. Something helped me. Something did step in when I made room for it, you know? But it's kind of a bridge too far to go from like, I'm in control of my own life. I do things my way. I get what I want. I want this. I want that. I don't want this. I don't want that. like bridging someone from like struggling in life to surrendering to God is a pretty big leap. It is. Yeah. I just happen to be so fortunate to almost kill myself using drugs that I had no choice but to make that leap. Right. Yes. And then I took the leap back over and over again, you know, until finally it became just more of a foundational way of being. So that's why I like acceptance because acceptance is something that we can learn to do incrementally. Right. We can just kind of, ah, I'm going to let go of my attachment to this thing or to that thing. And then what we find on the other side of the things that we accept is that it was the best thing that could have ever happened anyway. And then that kind of leads into a deeper surrender where, you know, I'm guiding my life, of course, to some degree, and there's some intentionality about where I'm going, why I'm going there, who I'm going there with, and so on. But I'm much less attached to the results because there's a deeper level of trust that I'm being held. And so my job is just like stop clinging, which is actually something I wanted to ask you because this is something I tease kind of intellectually and try to get my head around. I find I have the most inner peace when I have fewer desires, attachments, wants, needs. Like I'm very materially attached, right? I like a certain level of comfort and beauty in my environment. I'm not really into stuff like I need a Porsche or something, but I'm into stuff that helps me feel comfortable. And I just like this is a beautiful studio. If we were in like a shitty garage right here, it would have a different energy. And that energy really affects me, unfortunately, because it makes life really expensive. But I find the more I can let go of my desires and attachments to things, the more peace I have. Yet I'm also really interested in seeing what I can accomplish in life. And to accomplish something, you have to want it, right? So can I go from like a drug addict, you know, homeless, living on the streets, doing all kinds of unsavory things to up here, whatever up here is, you know, being someone who's of service in the world, is well-liked and respected and is helping people and happily married, you know, all the things that I have now. It's like I had to want the life that I have now in order to have it. Mm-hmm. But also being attached to specific outcomes and ideas and doing too much outlining for me ends up being a bit confining. Mm-hmm. So it's an interesting dance between acceptance and surrender, but also making forward motion, right? Also having some momentum. Mm-hmm. To have momentum, you have to have a desire. Like, I'm not going to get across the street unless I have the idea that I think it's going to be better across the street. Right. So it kind of a trap It a tricky thing because someone could hear like surrender or acceptance and that you just going to settle for shit and just learn how to be happy swimming in shit when you could be swimming in a beautiful ocean you know yeah that i don know the answer to that just these are the kind of things that i yeah you know pick apart in my mind because it seems like desire and attachment can be a real trap yeah but it's also kind of necessary in the human experience and that that's what i fall into sometimes when i think about like oh, I'd be happy if I had X amount of dollars or if I had this number of homes or I was able to go here or there. So if I can't be happy and fulfilled with who and where I am right now, you could put me in that future dream and I'll still be the dissatisfied character that I am sitting right here. You know what I mean? I do. It's kind of like that thing about, I was saying earlier, where it's not the thing we want, it's what we believe we're going to feel or experience when said thing is achieved or gained. Yes. Kind of like that. Yeah. So the game for me is, and maybe you have some insight into this, is like, okay, how can I be just in maximum gratitude that I'm sitting with Elizabeth, freezing my ass up with a wet shirt, having a really beautiful conversation, but also really want to have a nice cozy dry sweater on, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, if I can't learn how to be happy right here, then you put me in the nice cozy warm sweater i'll still be the same unhappy guy i'll just have a warm sweater on you know what i mean yeah so i don't know if there's a question in that or it's just it's just a mosaic of ideas yeah i mean you you you tap into like the whole you know the spiritual thing about you know having when you have no desires like you see the yogi go to the cave right and right take away all the desires and then everything everything's fixed right that's my issue because I want the cave, but I want it air conditioned. Right, exactly, exactly, yeah. I want really vibey furniture with no microplastics in it. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Filtered water, I've been to your house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that the desires are literally what guide us. I think the desire is like the energy that wants to go outward. And I think that when we say that we have, okay, so you take away the desires. I don't personally believe that the desires ever go anywhere. I just feel like the desires are still within us, but the box gets checked. So sometimes it's like, okay, well, you know, this car, and then you get a different car and you're like, well, this car's fine too, right? And so that's the same desire, but it's like, at one point you were this person in your life and the box was checked and now you're this person So it's almost like the desires are there, but they become invisible. I think you talk about this juxtaposition of like, I want this, but I want this and I still have to acknowledge at the same time that I don't have this. And so how do you do that? I think the moment that we, at least for myself, the moment I go into that, I'm like, okay, I want this. then what I do is I elevate, this is the way I sort of my internal narrative, is I elevate my sense of responsibility to become almost like a MacGyver in a way, because I elevate my responsibility to create a world that is independent of even what that thing is, but that I am somehow being guided to make some kind of world over here because my whole thing, we talk about this in the mastermind, is I'm always living from a place of how can I invite it in? So when I accept the fact that I am fully responsible for that thing to get invited in, then I can't at the same time acknowledge that I don't have it because it's like that's outside now. So I say that I want the million dollars, right? Okay, great. I know that's embodied within me. Like that's already heard. The universe already heard that. Like I'm in resonance with, you know what I want, right? So I don't have to think about that anymore. The universe is the one that put the desire in you. Exactly. It's the same thing, same thing, right? So that's outside of me. Now it's the invite. For me, the invite is Because I, as the person who initially had that, I can't have that and be that same person or else I would already have that because the match would be perfect, right? So for me, the invite is I must step into the responsibility, elevate my standard to the degree that I am no longer the same person that I was. And that is the most, really, that's the most challenging things to do because I literally have to fall out of love with all the things that make me comfortable or that I feel like is me or that I feel like I'm. And that's why people get really stuck when they fall into certain roles in life. Like I can't actually become new if my whole day is about people pleasing. I can't become new if I am feeling, you know, there's a lot of parents who have a lot of guilt and they're in certain roles and they have to behave a certain way because they're really just compensating for something that happened in their childhood, right? It's like we agree to these roles and these – almost like it feels like an entanglement to me that we have with each other that we're trapped in. Like we're creating our own – I visualize it as me being entangled to a whole bunch of different things. One of the exercises in the mastermind is that disentanglement. I don't know if you remember that. But it's like I basically just – whenever I start to feel any emotion in my body, instead of figuring out like what the hell is this tied to and what childhood thing and blah, blah, blah. Because like I'm over trying to – I don't want to take the time. You know me. I'm like how can I live outside of time? You're efficient. I am. I'm like screw that. I'm not doing that. Your maximum efficiency. I am. I'm just like I'm going to cut this because I'm going to come back to it's me and me. The moment that it's me and me, all I'm doing is I'm just creating and then I go back out without the entanglement and I'm just creating and I'm creating and I'm creating. If I'm creating from a place of authenticity, that thing that I want is going to be invited in because I created it from authentically who I am. I'm creating the match by setting up the invite. Therefore, the moment I go into thinking about it and wanting it and then I don't have, all I do is step into responsibility that, oh, shit. Oh, my God. It's like I just showed up for a job that's not mine anymore. Oh, shit, Elizabeth, that's not your job, right? We talked about this already. Your job is to create the invite. The only thing of the invite is for me to manage my energy and to keep coming back and looking at myself and disentangling to the degree that my authentic self can only resonate out because I know that the authenticity and the creation of it is a match. That's it. Do you think what you just described has something to do with the fact that for the majority of people who win the lottery, it completely destroys their life? The way I look at that is that they don't have the consciousness, the capacity to hold that. They don't have it to match. Right? That's why 90% of them lose it. Yeah. They don't have the confidence. There's like a massive incongruence there. There is. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you can even see that to a certain degree in like, you know, parents that are going to give a whole bunch to kids and then they never really have to go through it. Like we can even give that to ourselves. Like I feel like honestly like a lot of what's going on with people not being able to find their own authenticity is because they're not willing to be a leader of themselves. Like we are so good at like negotiating with ourselves. I feel like to a certain degree, like, you know, maybe this is just kind of like a stoic kind of part of me, but I'm like, I am getting less and less tolerant of the bullshit that I am filing to myself because I know that this whole concept of this self-love and blah, blah, blah, like it's not about like Eckhart Tolle says, like, if you think the world's here to make you happy, like check again. Right. It's not about that. That happiness is going to flow through when I call bullshit on myself, when I stop negotiating with myself. The moment I do that, I'm not being hard on myself. I'm actually just getting – I'm eradicating that part of myself that wants to accommodate because I would rather be the invite for what I want because I like who I'm discovering. Honestly, I like who I'm discovering. Like I'm completely honored to be having this conversation with you because I discovered a new aspect of me that I can now give out to the world. I feel like I can be bigger for those that I love. I'm closer to what I want than I've ever been indirectly by having this conversation. I know the feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. And then if I can just keep myself to coming back to that, which I can't always do. Like I'm getting into the whole like, oh, my God, this and that, you know. But when I come back to it, that's when time collapses because that's when everything happens so quickly. Something I struggle with that you talk about a bit and I've heard others talk about. And it's difficult for me to grasp in practical application. And that is coming from wanting something and coming from a place of lack. You know, right now in real time, you know, I'm just about to finish this book. I've been pouring literally blood, sweat and tears into for two years plus. And so now it's getting into the marketing phase. And because I put so much of my heart into this thing, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't go full out to try to market it. It's like, God, I think there's so much value in this. I want as many people to have it as possible. I want to reach as many people as I can. In order to do that, I have to pay some people a lot of money to help me with that. And so right now I'm about to start a six-month contract with someone that's going to manage the marketing. And it is more money than I have. I don't have the money to do it. But I feel like I can't let it go. Yes. And so I'm in a place of lack, like, ah, I want the thing. I don't have the money. Am I going to have to borrow the money? Am I going to have to sell some of my shit? How am I going to make this happen, right? So I'm already approaching that from a place of lack rather than a place of like, ah, no big deal, which is kind of what I think at first when I agree to something like that. Like, ah, I'll find it. That sounds like a lot of money. It'll work out. You know, I do have like a faith and a trust. But then as something gets closer and I'm looking at the 3D objective reality of my situation, it's like, dude, who are you kidding? You can't afford this. And I'll find a way to do it. But it's like the way that I find to do it is more like with grit. There's like force behind it rather than a trusting benevolent power behind it. Oh, this is so good. So when I – I've heard you talk about this and I'm like, it sounds right. But I don't quite get how to apply it in my life because it's like if I want that thing, it means I don't have the thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like – and that's not even like if I had as much money as I would like to have. Yeah. I would 10x what this one person is going to do and I'd have 10 of them doing it. And I would just go completely berserk marketing my book, for example. It's just one example right now where I'm – I've recently faced with an opportunity where I go, yeah, like I get that there's a possibility for this. That's why I proceeded forward. But in the reality that I can see, the empirical evidence right now is that the resources in order to do that do not exist in this timeline, in this moment. Okay. And then there's anxiety around that. Okay. So this is absolutely brilliant. So, okay, so if you – you're putting money in flow, right? And so you can't work with money until you put it in flow. And that's why I like people who like – they park it over here, they park it over here, and then they park their identity to this is the only thing that's going to make money or they over-save or whatever, right? Then you run into problems. Oversaving is definitely not my problem. So you've put money in flow. And I know we have to go pretty soon anyway. So this is great because – so that is like the first perfect thing that you've done, by the way. And so relish in the fact that you're like, oh, good. I've put it in flow. I kind of think of it as like a golden light and it's sort of going like this, like a circle, right? So now your only job is to – I almost think of it like I can imagine you jumping into the light, like you jumping into the flow. The only job is to every day become the Luke who can jump into the light. And that Luke who jumps into the light, like you don't get a ticket to it when you're over here in lack or whatever. So you find yourself in lack and you go, oh, wait, kind of like what I said before. That's okay. But I have to leave that aside, right? It's my job to leave it aside. It's not I need to reconcile why I feel that way or I do feel that way. It's that you acknowledge you're in agreement. You almost should feel that way because that's who you were. But now that money is in flow, then you're in a new agreement. Your new agreement is how can I discover Luke who jumps into that light every day? And if you singularly – that's the thing that people try and do everything. If you singularly agree to that, then you'll be able to reconcile, okay, well, I'm not feeling the flow of money or I'm not seeing an extra $2,000 over here or I'm not – and by the way, it doesn't even have to do anything with money and most of the time it doesn't. A lot of times when you – because whatever we're doing in one area of our life, we're doing in others. A lot of times it can be like lowering the control in a relationship. It can be cleaning up a relationship with a parent or something like that. So what's happening is there's this essence that's coming up, this ease. It's all indirectly related because your only job is the invite. So you've agreed to jump in that and you've agreed. So if you would take that on to become that that is singularly your job and that you know that you're going to sort of see this lack person over here, that's what it's supposed to look like. you get back over here and you're like my only job is to create the invite and it's indirectly related you will be absolutely shocked that money will come in so fast for you and you'll start to feel so good and you're you will be more of you for the marketing and the book project too like it'll all suss itself out yeah it sort of feels like i'm about to enter some sort of sporting competition with my old uniform that's too tight. Yes, that's right. I'm trying to play a game. It's like, yeah, I can't really move. It's making me feel anxious because the old way that I was operating was fine with that suit, but now I'm expanding, doing something bigger, broader, more interesting, more fun, more impactful. And it's like feeling that contraction. Yes. And you'll start pulling in the energy like you already are. You've pulled in that. You know, the book is a different stage. I mean, look what you just interviewed this morning. Like, it's also looking at how you're already doing it because you are. Right, right. You really are. And that when we switch. Right. It's like you're already you're already on the field. You're already in the game. This, by the way, is why, Luke, everyone out here sees you as this big versus you seeing this big, because we see the evidence in real time, because we don't have an emotional attachment to the evidence that is related to your past. That's why we are seeing it. And so when you actually take on the viewpoint that we're seeing, that's how you do it, is you actually see the things that are already – you get only – your standard is so high that you're like, no, I am only in the energy of what I am seeing right now. at all. It has to diminish because you've taken your energy away from the other part. It has to. That's awesome. It's belief. Would you say it's belief? It's belief as a function of you building within you. It's not belief as a function of my thinking mind needs to agree. That's the disconnect because you hear that all the time. Believe it and it will be true. But that's a concept. But what we're talking about is we're talking about belief from like what's already here, like belief, like from your own inner being. I call it the believability ladder. It's like using what's already here and building into it rather than trying to like do a mind game with ourselves. Right. So it's like, it's actually acknowledging objective reality. Acknowledging it, yes. It's not like you're believing in something that you have to stretch to believe in. It's like actually belief in the reality of this moment, which is, As you said, everything's going really well. It's like I'm doing the thing. It's all happening. Yeah, because if you were just to explain your life to me just today, you're already there. Right. And that's the crazy thing. Yeah. It's so amazing. Oh, my God. I wish we could keep talking about all this. Thank you. God. Oh, God. That's great. Good. Thank you so much for having this conversation and being here and being who you are, really. You have helped me so much today. Oh, cool. Likewise. Yeah. It's great to have relationships where you can learn from one another and be inspired. Because everyone has their expertise. Everyone has their niche. And I got a lot of things figured out and a lot of things I haven't. Yeah. I know. It's like what a boring world it would be if we all figured out the same issue. You know what I mean? I know. We would have nothing to talk about, right? It's like, oh, we all got the money thing figured out. We all got the spirituality. It's good to meet people and be inspired. And also, you know, it's nice when you have something to offer too, right? It's like I meet people all the time and I know more or have more experience in a certain area than them. And when you can get the egos out of the room, it can become a really fruitful and inspiring interaction. You know, that's what I'm always looking for is like co-teaching. Me too. It's difficult in Austin. There's something that Allison and I called it. It's like a virus here. It's called coachitis. Is it? Yeah, it's like sometimes, not with all people in all times, but sometimes it's difficult to just have normal conversations with people because so many people here are in the personal development space and are leaders in that capacity. And so, hey, what's going on? Like, oh, pretty good, man. I'm just, you know, I'm working on this and that with the book. Well, what you need to do is. No, it's like. Unsolicited advice is such a turnoff. Aren't we over it? I don't know what it is about that. It's like if I had a pet peeve with people, that would be one. It's like, I'm just trying to hang out, dude. I'm not trying to do a therapy session here. We're just having a coffee. Relax. Yes. And men especially. I think any men that are in a relationship with a woman, if it's going well, you have figured out how to listen and not give unsolicited advice. Yes, that's right. Alice and I have that shit down. I learned it from John Gray, actually. Did you? The author of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. Yeah, from reading his books and interviewing him another time, a number of times, he really hammers that home when you're a man in a relationship with a woman. Well, you could be a woman in a relationship with a woman. I guess it works the same way. If you're dealing with a woman in any capacity. Yes, exactly. When women speak about something they're working through, something they're struggling, something they're feeling, they are not telling you. Guys, listen up. Yep. They are not telling you because they want you to fix it. They're telling you because they need to move that fucking energy out of their body, period. Exactly. Right? Exactly. I'm not trying to mansplain. No, that is spot on. And if, you can even make it worse, because if you're going to bring something else, it could even be advice plus some other issue that you might have on top of that. Oh, hell no. And then they suddenly have to take care of that. Oh, my God. The alarm bells are going to go off. Hell no. Yes. So Alice and I have a really, I mean, it's an unstated protocol, but, you know, I always ask her how her day was. And she goes into great detail that I'm shocked that she can remember, you know. It's like, oh, there was a plant on the table and, you know, she had brown shoes on. You know, it's just like the, it's just, you know, it's the way, where our brains are wired to take in detail and stuff. But if she's struggling with something, we have a thing. It's like she'll talk for a little while. And if there's a little pause, I say, you know, is there anything else? Yes. No, I'm good. You know what? Actually, da, da, da. And there's way more. That'll happen two, three, four times. And then she's like, no, I'm done. That's really it. I'm like, wait, pause. Are you sure? And then and only then I'll say, do you want a little perspective? Want some feedback? Do you want my help? And most times she says yes. But if she said no, I go, cool. All she needed was just presence. She just needed to be heard. She just needed to get whatever she's thinking and feeling out of her body into the physical world in order to dissipate it and let it go. It's such a powerful tool for relationships. So the coachitis thing I think sometimes is more so from men that I know. I don't get that as much from women. But I'm like, now I know what it's like to be a woman that's trying to just express yourself and share your inner experience without getting someone going into teacher mode and trying to give you advice that you didn't ask for. Yeah, because that's the only way you can see yourself. I can see myself. I saw myself in you, right? Because you're such an open space. You're an open channel. I saw myself on the other. I was in the mastermind as a student through you. like there's that is that is priceless like that that literally has changed my life forever and that's what you offer that's what that's what you're talking about you know yeah listening yeah so thank you for being that thank you yeah thank you for talking and listening yes absolutely and and for uh for braving the rain getting here oh that was classic so good so good yeah well uh Congratulations on the book Thank you Let's have you back on To please talk about the book We'll have you back on Please talk about it I'd love that I want to hear all about the book Comes out this November 2026 November 17th It's called A Horse Named Lonesome Oh really Yeah Oh God I cannot wait Luke It's a real thing It's about to be About to be born For real So yeah It's really exciting Oh my God I cannot wait to read it I've never worked on anything This hard in my life And I've worked a lot I'm 55 I mean I've I've done some stuff nothing compares to this. It's going to be absolutely amazing. Yeah, it's exciting. I can feel it already. Thanks, yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay, well, this is a gift wrapped up. All right, thanks a lot. That was fun.