The Birth Portal: Why Boundaries, Emotional Resilience & Truth-Telling Matter with Carson Meyer

The process of birth is part of our life and death process because it is one of the biggest catalysts for emotional growth if you're present to it and I do think that in the more westernized medical system We do give away a lot of our agency and authority Your brain is wired for deception, but here's the truth Patterns can be broken. The code can be rewritten. Once you hear the truth, you can't go back So the only question is are you ready to listen? Hey everybody, I have known today's guest Carson Meyers since she was a wee itty-bitty beautiful little teenager and Even back then she had a rare quality She questioned what others blindly accepted and in a city that tends to worship image and approval I immediately saw that she chose something deeper. She followed her instinct She pursued the truth and she was always one of the most caring young women I've ever met Today she's one of the most sought-after jewels in the country and the author of a stunning new book that I now have on my shelf growing together This features a week-by-week guide to pregnancy birth and early motherhood But more than that this book is a return to inner wisdom in a culture that has completely left us empty So thank you for writing this book and thank you for coming on one of the very first episodes of decoded It's so wonderful to get to chat with you and Haven't seen you in so long, but it feels like no time has gone by Everybody does I think we just did the math and we've known each other for it sounds like at least 13 years We were counting by way of children that I've had so I think 13 years seems to be the agreed-upon number and Honestly, I can say for sure you have looked almost exactly the same since you were 15 So I think sometimes that happens with old souls because I know same with me when I was like in pictures of me at 9 10 11 I look almost exactly like I do now now I'm 40 So you've aged well and yet have an age at all. So congratulations on that. You're doing something, right? So I've watched you Definitely carve your own path even from your youngest years and I won't name names but I remember vividly this one moment where We were having a conversation about You being on a private jet with some celebrity chicks who shall remain nameless And you're like, it's just so unfair They get to eat whatever the hell they want and like I'm over here eating bone broth trying to manage my autoimmune symptoms Like it's just not fair and I remember just thinking what a badass Chick who's on a flight with these people who's still holding steady to your inner wisdom What you know is going to help heal your body even when you're watching these other sisters stuff their face with pasta clearly only to I'm sure inject something or go to a cosmetic surgeon to maintain their look So I've known since that that was the moment for me where I was like this girl is different you stand out in a crowd of people who worship image and I've just always noticed that you've seen the world differently What's the earliest memory that you have of realizing that you didn't fit into the Hollywood crowd that you were raised in? Hmm, what a good question to start off on, you know, I think I don't know if I can pinpoint like the earliest earliest but I do and you know my mom well and She fits in in every crowd honestly because she's just that kind of person But I remember like being pulled aside a lot and just kind of like being raised with different values um, and she Just had a really strong connection to like nature And and just values that I was grateful to be brought up in amongst that world And it's interesting and this isn't necessarily like a Hollywood connection but something that somebody asked me recently and I Was reflecting back on my childhood and I think it It was a big part of that was like my parents really always prioritizing nurture and kind of coming Back to the book that even in like a really high profile and high stress and Work and busy and just like a really fast big life um, we slept and our parents spent till we were 14 There was never a time where we couldn't call them middle of the night Anytime of the day and that we were always really treated like we were the like family was more important than anything else and so That feels like it's always been a part of life, but I remember being 18 and this is where I think so fondly back to I can remember us having that conversation. Maybe I was I was in college at the time um, and just I just such vivid memories of spending time with you and learning from you and you being one of very few people In my life and then I've just that really you're out there who are unapologetically honest in such a way that leaves a really important imprint And you did that for me There's a doctor a chiropractor who is also a doctor that has been helped me on my health journey doctor mugs He was that for me and you were never afraid of like what we would think or You know what what someone would think of you if you told the full truth or if you would keep your job or You know if it would make someone feel bad or offend them you're like no like this is what this is what's healthy This is what's right and I'm gonna stand with it and not be Afraid of that so I've always admired that and I think that it was actually people like like you in my life In a in a world an environment. That's very much for show Who are willing to have that honesty? That is great. Thank you. And I will say your mom is malleable and can fit in anywhere But she's also a wild woman you can tell I've met many women in my life. I'm like, okay They have like that true warrior woman spirit and your mom has that warrior woman spirit And I think she definitely infused that or imparted that into you as well And I will say just from being able to be in and out of your home over the years It's so clear how much love that you your brother your dad your mom. There was always just such a tight knit family dynamic which For many of you that might not have known about my earlier journey I've been in and out of many celebrities homes and that is very rare There are a couple celebrity clients that I worked with that had it but more often than not There's a disconnect and a coldness that happens in the home where Everyone has their role differentiation There's like the you know, three different staff members This person does the cooking and you lose touch with the the actual close-knit family connection And although obviously, you know, you lived a great life I always felt that close-knit connection between you and your family So I'm not surprised that that got you to where you are today where you're now bringing that into your own beautiful family So I remember having some of these conversations with you early even in early years of college about What you were going to do and where your passions were leading you I do think that in a world again Contrasted where everything's about image and even things, you know, I know this is a hot topic But even things like vaccines. I remember back in the day Working for a few celebrity clients who were personally very opposed to vaccines But then I saw them during covid suddenly like a vaccine billboard So we do know that there's this interesting Fassad that can happen in Hollywood culture where it's like this is what I'm supposed to say and then this is what I actually do for my family I wonder going into this career path that you did. There's obviously it's a It's a topic especially around things like free birth where people get very divided and people get I think very emotional about it Knowing that you live in a you were raised in a culture or society that is divided And there is very much kind of this front-facing facade that you're supposed to keep up How did you reconcile being able to become a little bit more of this like wild? Wild back to nature version of birthing that you've brought into the world, especially through your work in the book Yeah, you know, I think in that world it's there's so much criticism all the time And so I have a lot of compassion and understanding for like why that happens even though it can be It can it can feel it can be upsetting to watch too because you're like, oh, yeah, that's not what you believe and I know that's not what you stand for but Here you are promoting it Um or being like kind of persuade in another direction of it So easily and and yeah, I think that like So much criticism will do that for some people just completely break them break them down I was pursuing acting for a large part of when you knew me um Inside note you help me really feel confident in a role where I was in my bathing suit. I think the whole time through our work together, but it was I think eventually kind of like departing from that was where I felt It just felt authentic and and some people can really Stand the heat and and do that gracefully and that's not It's not me and so it felt so I guess like liberating to be in a field where I And so much more authentic to who I am to be in a field as a doula where I could um really Help support women and like advocate for these ideas and Ways that I really believe in and that were so important for me to me and that I really believe are what Change what will change the world? Michelle Odent says in order to change the world we have to start with birth and I think sometimes I can get really overwhelmed with all of the topics all of the things that I care about all of the things that are maybe going wrong or Yeah, like where where we can apply ourselves to make the world a better place or to Kind of like use our voice and for me when I discovered this work it all made sense I was like, oh if you start with birth there's a profound simplicity um That actually in my belief like just trickles into every single aspect of our existence and That past and present and future it is a radical paradigm shift And I think you know that I've had four kids and every single birth has been radically different from the other one And I will say that my home birth experiences both for good and for bad Have been a radical paradigm shift for me in how I present in the world my level of emotional resilience I've talked quite a bit about on my instagram how The process of birth I think Is part of our life and death process because it is one of the biggest catalysts for emotional growth if you're present to it And I do think that in the more westernized medical system We do give away a lot of our agency and authority So then we're kind of told what to do therefore. We're not really present to what's unfolding during the pregnancy we're kind of just this passive helpless bystander which is Arguably not what's supposed to be happening spiritually and otherwise So in this process of birth do you have I'm sure you love the whole process But is there one phase of the birthing journey that you feel more drawn to or that you feel like is somehow more spiritual connected than another Yeah, so I think I mean, I think they're all equally relevant pregnancy being one that allows you this really long runway of Integrating I think that there's my right about my book the final weeks of pregnancy being a portal within themselves because so much comes up around being at this precipice feeling pressure from you know to induce Having us question where we stand with that. Is it the feeling of like anxiety of wanting to just have it be over with? How are we physically feeling? What are the fears and pressures from others? and then like as we face this massive change don't no matter how many kids you've had before Each one changes you Just having to really sit with that discomfort. And so I think that even There we often don't think of those last few weeks of pregnancy as potent And in my book I talk about using that time to like stop reading your books stop preparing stop googling and to Be in your creative self and so like even it doesn't matter if you're not a painter Or you don't kind of fancy yourself an artist, but get out of canvas Like start doing those things like get into that soft softer mindset that's going to help you prepare for birth And be in that state of flow and creation and then of course birth carries such a profound Is a profound portal and For me another big part of what I write about in the book and from my experience was So special and I think we often in our culture don't see it that way But the postpartum time and I actually didn't welcome anybody into our home Aside from our postpartum doula for the first three weeks after birth And this is because I believe that that fourth trimester that sacred window is Really crucial integration for mom and baby and to add on the whole family And a process that should not be rushed And it is seemingly so Socially acceptable for parents and family and friends to apply pressure because they want to meet the baby Do you have any tips that maybe new moms or moms to be Can utilize to Exercise their boundaries and maybe articulate why this time or space is so important. Yeah, so I have a chapter in my book called the bubble of peace I talked about this exact thing and that Children thrive with boundaries. They want boundaries and for so many of us and tell parenthood We may not even have our own And and even through parenthood sometimes But that these situations come up be it Yeah, an in-law who is eager to come hold the baby right away or A friend who wants to be in the birth at the birth Um, or even somebody at the grocery store You know telling you a story Um, we're telling you something like projecting something on tube up birth and in the chapter I talk about how You know these these situations arise to help us strengthen our boundaries Which will ultimately everything is in service To what's on the other side of birth will help support us in parenthood So that we can have stronger boundaries for our kids with our children Because it doesn't stop after birth like this will continue to happen and our role as parents is to Be that for our children and so I say like don't Don't let these situations annoy you or upset you or like make you feel like you're Failing them like use them use them to strengthen um, and then also with the bubble of peace just like creating an energetic boundary because sometimes it's not something that you can control because maybe you're in a public space and somebody saying something or maybe you have a Family friend who's really afraid of home birth and is like constantly Putting that on you and how you can energetically separate yourself push that energy away and create the seal of Kind of the bubble of peace but really it comes with practice And I talk about how like the more we practice creating those boundaries Practice using our voices the stronger they become and it takes I think personal assessment of seeing where and why We don't feel worthy of having them or we feel that if we are going to have them we won't Maybe we'll lose that love or or connection um, or feel Like we owe it to somebody else to give them that What if because as you know, I work with couples all the time And this is a scenario that I see come up quite a bit What if the pressure is not necessarily from outside but from the husband to invite other people? Yeah, that can be really tough. Yeah, that's where I think it's talking about it before and that's what I say it's like It's a lot easier to be dealing with this if you've had the conversations through pregnancy come up with a game plan um And helped each other understand your perspectives in pregnancy versus you're in it and all of a sudden you're in this you know Perhaps battle of like Push and pull of who wants what so I think the best thing you can do is just create a dialogue in pregnancy um around Yeah, what how you envision the postpartum portal? I do think I mean, I believe obviously a father's needs and role in this process are equally important and the mother's doing very unique and different work through pregnancy birth and the initial postpartum And I think as a child gets older these conversations change within a relationship dynamic, but It's not just the shared baby that's being born But the mother has also gone through a tremendous physical transformation. And so I do have a bias that the mom's needs need to be honored in that time because she too is healing figuring out breastfeeding bleeding needing rest her womb is still You know her organs are still coming back together. Her womb is still kind of closing and like energetically has Is changing and transforming and still wide open um, and so yeah, I do think that it's important for the partner to to recognize that and honor that in the consideration and for some couples there's ways that you can kind of make both work and compromise In a way that makes everyone feel good How soon is too soon to start having these conversations when someone gets pregnant? I don't think it's ever too soon really. I think it's it's okay to be Like having them even before you get pregnant and then for them to change as your needs change, right? But like, you know one little More kind of practical tip for for couples who do feel that both um Want to have visitors but to limit visitors is have the partner be um The the keeper of the space so maybe there's a code word that mom uses when she's ready for Her partner to be like and you know now we're gonna hand scene And now we're gonna go here come on I do decide to have people in the space and that does feel good Making sure that you've also talked about how those people are gonna show up because it's not For us it felt better. Just know we love our family But we knew that like what knew my mom wasn't gonna come and cook three meals like that's just not how she shows love it's or So but if you do have a family member like that Making sure that you're I say that we don't have a language really in our culture around postpartum care The game is not It is something that has been so just we're so disconnected from and so long forgotten that we have to reteach Our village how to care for new mothers And so if you are welcoming people into the home and you have decided that's best Get on a game plan of what you think you're gonna need What you know, you're gonna need what you anticipate meeting what you're Ask friends what you what they You know what they needed and that can help you understand what you're gonna need and then give those people specific jobs because ultimately Everyone wants to just feel important I think that's beautiful advice and I will say with my last baby I had a postpartum doula and it was a complete radical game changer I wish that I had done it every other time prior. It was the best gift that I could have had because it does take Some of the pressure especially for somebody like me I'm just naturally a caretaker and I'm extremely self sacrificing even to my own physical detriment So one of the most challenging things for me in those early weeks of postpartum is Trying to keep myself still and not and kind of fighting that urge to go cook for my family or clean Because I want to be of service and I want to do the things So I think having the postpartum doula for there for that last one Actually let me sit and be with my baby and I didn't have to worry about cleaning or cooking and we did meet ahead of time and go over You know, how how do you want me to show up in your space? Do you want me to help with the other kids if they need help or do you want me to let you do that? So I do think to some extent having those conversations is I think it's kind of the make it or break it for a postpartum and whether If you can't afford a postpartum doula, you know I couldn't either the first three So you're not alone on that but in that case then you'd really need to have some really solid communication with your partner Because right then you're you and your partner have to come up with a clever way to split the duties Yeah, and I do I've just I've heard a lot of Dads say Why do we need that? I'm gonna like we're good. Why would we need that right or I like to cook It's all good and that's I always say like what a loving and I hear this with birth do this too Like that's just coming from such a place of love and generosity and even moms will say that I don't need a postpartum doula like I'm I'm really I just bounce back after birth and start doing my thing um, and it all comes from such a place of love and generosity and wanting to give But the more both parents can be present in the moment like what a gift you don't get that time back And so I say to the You know for the dads who love to cook and love to be of service in that way There's gonna be so many opportunities for you to do that later But allow both of you to be taken care of and even still you'll have a lot of work to do But allow both of you to be taken care of because then you get to really Kind of be in the stillness and the connection of it And I think that stillness on a subconscious level is actually what some people are trying to avoid I know myself included On this show we talk a lot about brain pattern types and I was mentioning that mine is more that drive to easily self-sacrifice Put others first Ultimately those things prevent me from ever being in stillness and doing nothing Which is ultimately what I really needed to do To connect with my baby. I had this really unique experience I have two boys and two girls and my son zev we were talking about this when we first were starting off the podcast I think I mean I had met you. I think probably a year or year and a half before he was born But I also knew after he was born. I was working so hard Immediately after he was born. I remember he was born October 20th I had a photo shoot for like German shape magazine at the end of November So I just I literally had my baby and then I went right back to work I have a picture of me holding my baby in my office when he was maybe eight days old And I remember vividly this one day when he was 10 months going into his crib to go give him a bottle And looking at him and being like What? I don't remember raising this child. Where did the last 10 months go? Have I been asleep? Have I been a walking zombie? And it was literally like looking at my kid for the first time and I was Overwhelmed with guilt and sadness and like every emotion that you could possibly experience because I knew I would never get that back and My son and I have a great relationship and he's an exceptional young man And he says his childhood was the best But I wasn't present for it so much so that I literally have massive gaps in the first 10 months of his life So I do think that for some of us just from the level of Brain pattern type and how we perceive reality and then respond from that place If you're a doer and you like to stay busy you can literally accidentally miss your kid's childhood If you're not paying attention and I do think that having a postpartum dual that's second with my second son Really showed me the contrast of what it's like to be taken care of and being able to Sit on the couch and stare at your baby in the eyes for four hours Like I'd never done that before which has all these different physiological benefits to be on the memory and the experience but Like just from like a neural pathway for you and baby for milk supply for healing for Yeah postpartum depression So there's so much value and I want to say as you mentioned like not being able to afford postpartum doulas There is something I don't know if you're familiar with little honey money But it's a friend of mine started this company and I love it and I think that it's Helping to shift the conversation around what we invest in And what we spend money on and also how our village shows up for us baby showers, baby registry is just really the only cultural Thing we have right of passage or or ceremony that we have in honoring Made into mother and it usually includes showering the mom and baby with a bunch of stuff and things that she'll probably never use and gadgets that will just end up in the landfill and so little honey money is all about having instead of it be those gadgets And toys and clothes things that you can get hand me down second hand and again really don't really need often Is funding postpartum doula Funding a postpartum therapist maybe a meal delivery and the things that moms actually need to be present And I always say like babies need a car seat some diapers or not if you're doing elimination communication Um, but at the end of the day all they really need is a healthy mom. 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That's right zero emf and it heats up in 60 seconds I originally went for it because I've been struggling with lymphatic drainage and all types of issues struggling with weight loss Rashes and I knew that I just needed to add something into my daily habit stack that I could keep up with This is something that I can keep at home It's something I can jump in for 15 minutes instead of going somewhere to go sit in the sauna wait for the sauna to warm It's just boom jump in there throw on a pod And heat myself up from the inside out and it helps detox your body it boosts circulation It improves recovery and of course it supports brain and mitochondrial health I use it about four to six times a week and six times a week even for only 20 minutes has been proven to extend your lifespan listeners of this podcast get a hundred dollars off by using my personal code bgheal at healing sauna comm Every purchase supports my work too and I would appreciate it deeply if you would go check it out by far and away the best sauna I have ever owned if you are serious about your health recovery and longevity Go head over to healing saunas use my code bgheal for a hundred dollars off And that's the thing that people I think have a bit of hubris around like to your point where mom's like, oh, I got this. I bounce back quickly You're always gonna be borrowing from something So to do that you're going to be in debt somewhere else and I do think that If you can use a service like what your friend created or you know Thankfully, I think a lot of people do have friends that do nowadays I have seen it's more common for people to just give cash or checks like use this how everyone I do think that that should become more and more socially acceptable because to your point I mean, I think virtually everything I've ever received in a baby shower has been cute And also not Yeah We're We're I think selling moms on this idea that if you attain a certain amount of stuff You're prepared And I see this all the time with moms like when when they want to you know, do a consult They're like, what do I need for their nursery? And I'm like, oh like this is a way of trying to Feel like you can check something off your list off this box So that you can feel ready. But this is why like I think my birth is so different than so many on the market it's because it's like That's a very very small percentage of what it really means to be ready Um, I never even had a nursery for my daughter Well, I do think it's it is a control based mechanism to control your outcome via physical objects And I think that was one of my favorite parts about your book when I started to look through it was the level of emotional Intelligence that you teach throughout your book and how that ultimately is the best preparedness for birth that you can get And obviously taking into consideration all the other holistic Aspects of the birth process that have to go in tandem with that but You do such a wonderful job in the book about talking about how to prepare yourself emotionally because Pregnancy and birth are going to push you in a variety of ways and there are always unknowns I think many people that have followed my career know that My career really begun after a very traumatic birth with my first daughter who now has cerebral palsy and and I love the whole arc of my journey from have starting off with that birth when I was 25 And I'll give kind of the very very short summary I had a home birth on the eye on the big island of hawaii And we were in a very rural area And I was actually thinking about this last night when I was thinking about our podcast because I realized there's actually this one really pivotal moment That I wanted to bring up because I don't think I really Maybe I was too afraid to acknowledge the pivotal moment up until yesterday, which my daughter's turning 15 So sad that it took me 15 years to get here But on the island where I lived there were really two prominent midwives, right? When you're when you're in a very small rural community, it can be like that And one of them was regarded as the midwife, right? Like she was the one that everybody wants to be with and I actually originally started my journey with her And when I look back on it it after all was sudden done I really firmly in my heart of hearts believe that this other midwife would not have made this mistake leading to My daughter now having cerebral palsy But working with this midwife we got to probably like appointment number two or three And this woman was known as just very tough like tough cut the shit attitude And was very much a traditional midwife. So it was very opposed to ultrasounds and all of that, right? She I feel like I don't know what the tool would be called. You'd probably know what it was called But it almost looked like a smoking pipe that she used to Yes, um, but it was like wood or something. It was very very traditional So going through this whole process with her she kept I'm a really stubborn person and That served me in a variety of capacities in my life, but the way that she kept trying to meet my stubbornness I think really worked against us in this scenario because at one point she's like you're not going to be one of those neurotic people That's just going to like Basically call uncle midway through your birth and go to the hospital, right? And she kept like taunting me and I look back on it and think I by the way, I love this woman dearly and I think she's a brilliant midwife Also, I wonder If she hadn't have taunted me that way because I think at that point I was so Fresh in my birth my first pregnancy experience that to have somebody push me like that I was like, why should I why am I trying to prove myself to you that I'm tough? this seems ridiculous to me and My stubborn nature was like screw it. I'll go to the other midwife. So I was like it just doesn't This doesn't feel like a part of the birth process that felt nurturing to me, you know Yeah And looking back on it ironically, you know, again, had I stayed with her I doubts where I would have cerebral palsy but also I do believe everything's meant to happen for a reason and I My entire career my entire journey is a byproduct of having to go through that specific experience with sarai So I'm grateful for all of it and she's obviously turned out to be such an amazing young woman but I wonder in your just your opinion about How midwives or doulas show up to the space There is a certain level of toughness that you have to bring out in your client and resilience I just wonder like what's your opinion on this approach and What is what's the line like? Where's the balance point where you try to bring out someone's resilience without Challenging them in such a way that they shut down because I I really felt like looking back on I'm like, oh, yeah That really like shut me down and made me want to just Like push this whole thing away Yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing all that and it's so interesting I mean, I've gone through this so many times with clients with midwives was I've seen them change for this exact reason and It's interesting. It's interesting to think why we seek it out in the first place why some turn away from it Why some love it and I don't I don't know if there's I I certainly don't think like oh, this is how midwife should be or they or they shouldn't I think that there can be value in different ones now We say there's a different doula for there's a doula for everyone. There's a midwife for everyone and I actually started off um and throughout my pregnancy with A very similar type of midwife and I made a change similar to you For one who is a lot softer ultimately so I can really relate to that um And I've had many clients do do the same thing and then I've had clients who but I but I kind of I wanted to experience both of it but And and ultimately What I needed in In birth Was the softness? I know you're saying that you think had you chosen the harder one It would have been a different outcome Do you feel at all like ultimately aside from just you being grateful for It being a teacher for you an experience. Do you feel like there was any? Any reason that may be like unconsciously you you chose and made that switch that benefited I think I thought I was picking somebody who was softer and more nurturing who in my mind had equal experience but it turns out What happened during my birth was 100 midwife air and every midwife like in the history of The last 15 years of my life any person who's ever heard my story They always stopped me at this one point. They're like, please tell me she put her fingers in and guided out her chin And I'm like nope. So it's like every midwife pretty much in the world Except mine apparently would have done the right thing and I wouldn't have had this experience But I guess that's it's kind of another complex question, right? Because you look on paper and it's like sometimes a midwife on paper like it looked like they both had 30 years of experience and 30 years of people being like, oh, I love her. I love her right because you all you can really go off of is Someone's referral. Yeah um, I think and what's also like coming up and hearing that is back to the boundary conversation right with for the midwives and I see this a lot within um What we've been you mentioned free birth and the free birth community and the desire to uphold physiological hands-off birth um this kind of feeling like It is never a doula a midwife like should never ever intervene because that interrupts nature's brilliance and birth and what I really respect and admired from both of my midwives who I got the privilege of working with So I kind of I got to have two in switching and they both served this important part Was that they both Even though they were both considered hands-off and you know respectful of what I wanted they had boundaries They're like no, I will intervene here I actually know that by you know, like you said sticking my your hand and helping to guide, you know the the chin that will actually That's important. That's where my skills come in and that there comes a time where I do and I hear this a lot in a lot of A lot of birth stories or free birth stories. It's like it's a delicate dance right between honoring the the sovereignty or like allowing um Allowing birth to unfold undisturbed and to trust it and That we hire these professionals To support us and to bring in their wisdom and experience and to have their own boundaries as professionals of where they feel It's necessary in their role to intervene Right. It's like such a complex I mean, it sounds like overall the ultimate theme of this entire show is boundaries and expectations are absolutely critical and I do think that in Society we are pitched this idea that we shouldn't have expectations and the expectations are a setup somehow What is your take on being very clear on expectations as it pertains to the birth process or even like what? Articulating what your expectation is of your husband and kind of role differentiation. How would you navigate this in the birth space? Yeah I think it's such an important interview question in your with any provider that you hire Or just anybody that's going to be around you is what you what you expect What's important to you and how they they can meet you there or not like to know that is really important too Yeah, it comes back to to the conversations. I think in pregnancy and that it's okay to expect certain certain things from certain people and it's also okay to to leave and change your mind and to seek out that additional support from other people if you're not getting it from them When it pertains to a birth plan because I know that this is discussed in your book Similar sort of concept. There's this fine line between obviously you want a birth plan You want to conceptualize or bring to life the idea of what you want and what you don't want How does one come up with a birth plan yet also remain flexible for nature to do its thing? Yeah, and that kind of ties back exactly to expectations. What are expectations of ourselves of our births of our babies? of our experience I talk I have different ways of kind of utilizing the birth plan or the birth intention one is And I always preface it as this is and that's why I call it the birth intentions because we can't really plan How birth is going to go? We can't plan what it's going to look like Or necessarily what we might need from it, but we can absolutely Create intentions and set ourselves up for feeling more support around the whole experience and so A part of the book I kind of I talked through like specifically hospital like what different interventions you can choose from or not choose from you know the studies behind them um pain medication all of that and I invite The reader to create a birth intention sheet where they really like look into each of these and then Put it onto a document so that they can bring it to their provider and talk through these together um In pregnancy I also think it's really valuable as a tool because if you're going into the hospital and meeting your Birth team for the very first time that you're not going to be in the state where you're going to want to talk through these things then and this Can give you them a roadmap to understand your preferences, but none of it is set in stone. None of it is All of it is moving and changing and flexible um And that you kind of put in that preparation and then throw it away And kind of step back and I don't mean throw it away as like forget everything you learned and don't Um Don't apply it but to not attach to it but to be present in in its evolution And so there's that birth intentions, but then I also have a chapter on just how you emotionally Want to show up. What are your intentions for yourself? What are your expectations for yourself for those around you? So clinical things aside, you know, whatever this day brings like what are What do you want it to look like and how you know? We can't always have control over what birth brings but like how do you want to show up for it? And what is an intention you want to set for that in that day in that season and how can you achieve that? I think that's a beautiful beautiful juxtaposition because really everything about birth is that it's like be prepared and then also be prepared for anything so you've got to Create what your desire is or what your desired outcome is and then you basically just have to surrender I think big picture if I look at all four of my births The ones where I actually Surrendered went great and the ones where I was very much in fear and anticipating every next step or every next transition It just makes it almost impossible to let go and it that's actually physiologically stopping the birth process You know at a certain point one of my midwives had to look at me and be like, you know I need you to relax. You're literally stopping your own birth right now and I'm like, okay I gotta calm down For you going from home birth and then your second was a hospital birth Back to home after a really traumatic first birth so In the birth process. I love my whole birth trajectory was obviously home birth gone wrong Then I had a hospital birth very much against my will and actually People are always shocked by this My hospital birth out of all four of my kids was by far and away my most traumatizing Even though what happened with sari was horrific and for a while she did die for 20 minutes And I thought I was also going to die Being in a hospital environment and I you know, I did all of the things that you're supposed to do right at the time I was working for julia roberts. I had our You know shared pediatrician there the whole time during the chain of custody to make sure my child wasn't vaccinated All that I had prepared all of that ahead of time But once you're actually in the hospital I forget what the name of the one is in santa monica saint something but it was that hospital and I literally As soon as I walked in there It was like I lost all of my autonomy and my rights and I had to fight for everything that when I had Originally spoken to them. I wasn't supposed to have to fight for any of these things but any any Intervention that they wanted to give me even something like putting on a heart rate monitor Or having an IV line and I was like no I literally chose this hospital because I'm declining that no And the nurse would just keep coming in and badgering you over and over and over again and at a certain point my entire birth got completely hijacked and Somehow during a nurse shift change. I had been laboring all night and was great. I was in the shower I was like actually really in like for the most part enjoying my birth And I had had my duelo who was in hawaii on facetime. So I was with my duelo all night shout out to Laurel you're amazing and Going into the morning. I was like, okay, this is great. I'm feeling really good. I'm not tired I felt like I sold so much more energy And there was a nurse shift change and the nurse came in and was like, oh, we haven't had this baby yet I don't think so and then walked down. I was like, excuse me. What? And next thing you know a bunch of these doctors were coming in and they forced me to have an epidural Which I did not want to have I was like, I'm fine. I've been laboring all night. I'm good and they're like, that's exactly why you have to have an epidural They tried to say that I basically was too tired to make decisions for myself and I was not at all tired They forced me to have an epidural and the epidural kept only working on half my body So when they would give me the pain test or whatever I'm like, yeah And just feeling all of it Yeah Half so much worse. Yeah, and check this out. They tried to redo my epidural Three times on the third time. I told them point blank I'm about to push and they're like you couldn't possibly feel that I was like I know that I'm about to push. I was literally on my side They were still had the the spinal tap needle in me and they were like, she was right. She's right. She's crowning They pull it out. I have the baby, but at this point They had overdosed me with whatever is in epidural. I'm very sensitive to it By the time I was holding my baby I was shaking So wildly that my whole body was like this. I couldn't even hold my baby and they had to then take my baby Because they're like it's not safe for her to hold them. So then because they overdosed me. I couldn't hold my baby And it just started this whole slew of like horrific things. But basically my birth went from Basically six hours on my own Pretty much being left to my own devices with a nurse who was pretty great So just in one shift change The next four hours of my life were a complete and utter living hell where I basically felt medically kidnapped honestly And that was far more traumatizing to me than anything else because it literally felt like it just robbed me of my birth and even I did love my doctor But even when I was about to start pushing at one point He like gets up in my face and he's from israel and he was like busy. Look at me Cut this yogi breathing bullshit and do what i'm asking you to do and I was like, okay um Because I was just I was so I was trying to be relaxed and I didn't I was trying to calm myself down from everything I'd just been through So just to have all of that aggression and people try to force me and then really Gaslight me right you're too tired to make these decisions. I'm not I'm I'm well aware of how I feel and I don't feel tired at all I eat food. I'm hydrated Um, so that to me was by far and away the worst experience and after that then I knew for sure I would never That that was never even an option for me. I would never give birth in a hospital ever again And I think for a lot of people that hear what happened with sarai They find it so hard to believe that I could ever go back to having a home birth But to me just the foils of having sarai and then having that experience in the hospital You know could something like sarai what happened to her happened again? Yes, but I I've talked to so many midwives over the 15 years of my life that Like I said, everyone knew what to do except her so I don't know why that was part of my cards and sarai's cards, but I really just think that that was uh It was a random fluke that maybe spiritually for some reason was supposed to happen And going back to having my next two births at home It was such a beautiful return And healing for me of what the birth process could and should be like Harley who is my third she was my biggest baby by far my birth actually with her was really challenging That was probably like my hardest actual birth Because she was like over nine pounds. She was a big girl. She had a big head And that was my husband Gordon's first baby. So when she first came out He didn't I saw the look on his face and I'm pretty good at reading people But I didn't I didn't step in that trap right after the birth but a week later. He was like, babe When I saw her head. I was really worried that like something was Terribly terribly wrong because she was just so big her head was very smushed Um, but that one was beautiful and just being able to like Be at home and stay at home and we had everything prepared and I I mostly labored in the water with her and then my last one I think was By far and away my easiest birth and it was such a gift to my husband and I because it was the exact opposite of Harley So he kind of got to have these two foiled experiences as well I was so convinced. I wasn't in labor with river. My midwife was laughing at me I was like, you know, I'm just gonna like run down the street and go get a coconut water and she was like busy You're not gonna make it. I was like, what do you mean? I'm not gonna make it She was like, I guarantee if you take one foot of walking steps, your water's breaking. I was like, what? So I go of course stubbornly to go walk across the street to go get a coconut water and sure enough I look at my husband. He was like, um, babe I was like, okay, we'll turn around So that birth I was literally asleep in the tub Thinking, oh my god, my birth stalled This isn't gonna happen And my midwife just taps me on the shoulder and she was like, I think you're gonna have a baby now And I was like, what no, I'm like literally sleeping in the tub. I had the water like up to my face I was just so relaxed. My husband was in the next room listening to a podcast I didn't even have to like Hold on him. So I basically like did this one totally solo And then I get up out of the tub and I literally had river like three and a half minutes later And then I was eating pizza and bed holding my baby for hours. So It is possible and I often wonder when I see people with like seven eight kids I'm like based on the birth experiences I've had like hell no, I would never do that seven or eight times but If it was the birth that I had with river that I could totally see because it was Beautiful and for me it was the it was the final healing that I needed to know that I was personally done with my motherhood journey and that Four kids was really a full circle So full circle for me And just how you support and show up for women and couples like I really believe that sometimes these life experiences happen to enrich How we show up for others Absolutely, I have no at the end of the day. I have no regrets I think looking back and reflecting on that one moment yesterday was really more just I wish at the time I Knew more about myself and could stand up for myself at that time rather than just kind of pull back Because I think that was my at 25 that was my go-to. It was like, I'm not going to fight with you My conflict avoidance was to pull away So I do think that ultimately everything very much happens for a reason and I'm grateful for all of my birthing experiences And how much I've personally grown from every birth Yeah, it's like leaps and bounds every single time as I'm sure you've watched other women go through with your clients and even your own personal birth One of the parts of the book that was my absolute favorite was your chapter on baby proofing your relationship I think this is absolutely genius Do you have three tips that you could give to people who are trying to baby proof their relationship? because obviously being in the relationship space I see Childbirth break a lot of couples because they don't go into this with the right sort of plan So what what is your strategy here and what can people focus on? Yeah, it's like left out of all the birth classes the books and It is even being prepared for that and knowing that like And having the most amazing solid husband and marriage like it parenthood really Really gross that part of you and and like breaks that part of you in order to strengthen it And as you said for some it it it doesn't ultimately end that way, but I think for others whether or not there's Ease there's so much potential for it to be even better through that um Through the sludge of figuring out the new the rebirth of the relationship the death of the old relationship um But a big part of baby proofing in I think is first acknowledging that like whatever problems or dynamics that are there before are not going to be healed by I'm so glad that you said that so many people go into childbirth being like everything's going to be better now You better like I'll be happy because I have a baby finally or like we'll have this or like it just no like that's not going to happen So I think that's one of them Something that I don't well I talk about it in my book not in this chapter but I think it's really relevant at all seasons of motherhood and busy and I was talking about a little bit this before but just like understanding your work dynamic too and how Parenthood's going to change that what that's going to look like for you and your partner Right and just starting you don't have to like necessarily have a a plan right away, but Being real about that because I think a lot of parents don't really realize that it's not just the first 40 days both part of but it's the whole lifetime of how you're going to actually make space within the family and within your relationship for another being and human that's going to require a lot of time So I talk about those things. There's a questionnaire that I have it comes back to expectations again of understanding like what What might be needed? To really talk about those things put those things on paper Talk about love signs that book or love language. That's You know famous book, but I think there's a lot of value in that Wisdom around, you know, sometimes I see parents Or couples like one, you know, the dad maybe's like Okay, baby's here like I did all the dishes and I did the laundry and I'm like doing all these acts of service around the house And oh, my wife's going to be so happy And then she's up there being like, where are you? Like I feel so alone. I feel neglected. I want to be told that I look beautiful today and that I'm doing a good job and And then there's conflict, right? Because what you The your love language or what you're desiring is not lining up with what somebody's giving and it's not because You know, he's a schmuck like doing nothing It's because the language is you're not like Meeting each other and where you need to receive and where you want to receive and vice versa And that can happen on both ends and so I think that like exploring your love languages is a really beautiful way of not having to You know, I think the greatest part about being hopefully in a healthy relationship is not playing games anymore, right? Not having to do that. Amen in the in the dating world And so to like take out the mystery of what you need is really helpful and that knowing that like those needs will change From before your parents after your parents your love language may change And so to not be afraid of really asking for what you need and I think that ultimately that allows your That's your partner for success and vice versa Sets you up for success with your partner to avoid conflict and to feel the love that they have to give you and and to receive it So that's one I talk about the move on method Which I think is really it just looks like a catchy name that I made up And it's not about like brushing things under the rug but And I think we you and I are similar in this way. Are you Scorpio too? I'm a Scorpio rising. I'm a Pisces, but I'm not a very Pisces Pisces I'm I always seem to align more with Aries than Pisces though. I'm technically a Pisces. We're fierce and we have like You know, we we have that part of ourselves. I think that's very like a Scorpio of just like fierce and we know what We need and like that there's a that's part of I think So much of my who I am but learning that like that Ruthlessness sometimes like doesn't really in service to anybody And so like really learning to like let things go which is so much easier said than done um And that again, that doesn't mean like not talking about it or not having a moment of frustration which I have all the time um, but then like that the hardest days of parenthood are truly when My husband and I aren't united and so being I'm not sure enough to be able to be like oh, I can choose the easy road right now by like Yeah, I think emotional resilience actually is when you are quick to reset So even if something didn't go the way you wanted or it wasn't fair or you know, it wasn't what you were expecting You can choose to reset and let the future not be painted by the past and I do think that that is It's inherently a struggle for people with very specific brain pattern types I'm probably too quick to reset in general. I see and then I like projected on you that you would be more like I'm harsh with truth and I can be direct in that way But I'm so one of the things we talk about on this show is our brain pattern types and there's actually nine distinct markers Where my information processing is is at the very end of my cycle and I have a very low score in it So I just I'm not one to dwell. I'm not one to fixate or replay. I'm not going to go back and try to comb back through for details I'm much more likely to reset optimistically for the future even if that optimism is completely unwarranted I'm much more like but we're going to figure it out. It's going to be fine. You know, everyone is like looking at the evidence This is not going to be fine. I'm like I'm going to figure it out I think base is interesting like, you know, they say obviously parenthood changes your brain chemistry But I think my pattern changed after Parenthood because I have all minded you much that too. But a friend of mine and I write about this in my book so perfectly She told told me about the move on method around Uh parenting and I applied it to the partnership, but she was saying that her best parenting advice was like, you know when her son Did something wrong or I acted out or you know, there was a moment of like discipline or parenting that needed to be enacted she would do it And be firm and direct and have the conversation and then she'd be like, do you want to go play now? You know, she wasn't like yeah, you redirect all day You just you move on from it like and and it's and there's forgiveness and it's like You don't have to just be in it and to just make the point Have it done and then go through and I was like, oh, that's so genius in a relationship too My daughter Harley who's four I don't remember what happened But somehow she hurt herself and she's trying out this new thing where when she gets hurt and she's getting attention She wants to stay there for a bit longer than she used to And I I taught her something that is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I've now seen her apply it with great success It's pretty funny So she just kept wanting to replay this sadness and stay really stuck on what she got hurt on And I went up to her and I was like, can I teach you something? It'll make you laugh and she was like, you know kind of like I don't want to laugh And I'm okay. Well, you're gonna laugh whether you like it or not I'm like, come here and I got really close. I'm like, are you sad right now? And she was like Yeah, and I'm like build a bridge and get over it sweetie And she started laughing so hard and then she saw her brother doing it and she was like, oh river you sad Build a bridge and get over it sweetie. So this is again tongue-in-cheek I'm certainly not saying to like mock people that are in pain, but I do think to some extent Especially in parenting because I work a lot with kids Sometimes you need a pattern interrupt like this for a kid who's just like they're they like that attention of being sad So they actually can kind of sink into it and a kid like that if left unchecked Won't build emotional resilience and they'll actually keep finding other things to become sad about to get attention and love So I think ultimately the same is true in relationships. It's like we need Well, and I have this too with the move on method. It's like it's okay to like help each other out You know just like you would with your child like I'm gonna help you redirect and move on And so I was sometimes will say to my husband like I need you to help me do because I'm not strong enough right now or I'll do it I don't know there are people that are gonna be listening to this podcast that Have already had babies and maybe their parenting journey is done and I Because I've been through so many different births myself I think a lot of women kind of hear the wisdom that you're bringing into the world and how you're trying to help this current generation Maybe do things differently and while yes, we're moving more into the future I think you're bringing back a lot of our more innate wisdom and we're doing things a little bit more traditionally than maybe Our generations would have been 30 years ago What would you say to somebody who's kind of listening to all this and they're almost feeling sad regret or remorse about what they didn't do With their births or with their children Yeah I mean I think and again a big theme of this is that every and I say this to my clients I say this to myself because I've made so many choices um In my own life around my health around We I still do you know where I I feel regret or I'm like oh Why didn't I know enough to make the choice that I would have today? I really believe like everything that we do is in service to our Are growing and to ourself as we evolve into our evolution Um and to see it that way right just like with you with the hospital and how you saw this and you Experience it and instead of feeling like bad about what like a choice you made feeling really Feeling like this was actually going to create greater strength and resilience for you in the future um so that you can Grow in that part of yourself and so that's one thing I say my mom and I have this conversation a lot too I was born via cesarean and I think she's always like gosh like why didn't I have a duo? Why wasn't I you know, it's like strong enough to stand up for when I need it? And I say Well, thank god you weren't because I think it's why I am who I am today is because you made certain choices that Change the trajectory of my life and inspired my life mission And so I think sometimes it can be hard to see but knowing that like it's all There's all a reason behind it And to let them all be lessons and teachers and to know that we only know as much as we know until we know more I love that. Yeah, that's okay one I know we're kind of reaching the end Well, and one thing I want to add on that is in the book. There's some really beautiful activities one is the inner child and then one is from uh, Jessica silver who's a dear friend of my en somatic therapist and one from um, Dr. Moram on him who's another dear friend who Helps women kind of process and and work with birth trauma Anybody who is feeling that almost like dive deeper than those are two great But what I wanted to ask you and I know you don't have a ton of time It's okay if you don't want to share the story But a story you told me that always left an open on me And I remembered so much it's about your daughter seeing a pregnant woman in a grocery store and telling her Do you want to share that because yeah, I'll share that man throwback. I haven't thought about that for a long time This came up when I was listening to tell your story and I was like wow I talk about divine and Sarai Many of the people that are listening they're watching they've followed off an on sarai's journey for a long time And she's always been a very spiritually tapped in little being and even From the time that the hospital was trying to convince me that she would never walk or talk or be able to eat on her Own I remember just looking at her and being like that. No, no, no. She's like wise beyond her years I don't I don't believe what you're saying frankly. And so so glad that I didn't So once Sarai was about Maybe two months. She wasn't very old at all. I had her in a baby sling We were walking around the like hippie health food store in Hawaii And she kept looking at this pregnant woman and kind of like Like just staring at her It was enough for me to notice even at two months that she was trying to get this woman's attention So I went up to her and I was just like, oh, you know, you're you're pregnant to start a conversation with her And Sarai just kept wanting it was almost like even like leaning like trying to get as close to someone as possible And this woman named her name was juju. She looked right at Sarai in the eyes and she was like Who did you burp? Who is your medwife? And I was like, oh my medwife was april and she's like, oh me too And I remember just sitting there for a moment being like Okay, obviously Sarai wants me to share this experience and I it was hard for me at that point because I don't think I had fully processed all the trauma that I'd been through and I still didn't really even know how to reconcile You know, faults or air and things like that, but I just I like felt this during my belly I'm supposed to tell this woman my birth story So I waited for her to get her smoothie and I'm like, I hope this isn't inappropriate And I'm because I was not trying to be a fearmonger, right? I think there's always this line where it's like I felt really convicted about sharing and I felt like Sarai was really leading this one to your point So I did share what had happened to me and she did because of that story Choose to birth with somebody else and her birth actually was really complex and complicated and I really think that Sarai was paying it forward to help prevent the woman from possibly having a really bad situation And moving forward another baby Just a few weeks later was birthing with this midwife and I felt the same pull to talk to this person And they kind of brushed me off and we're like, you know, I'm a firefighter. I've got this under control And unfortunately that person's baby did pass away during the birth with this midwife So with that one That was where it started to become really clear that my mission actually kind of shifted to uncover Is this midwife actually hiding other issues? And I did uncover that there's actually a large number of babies that have been either deceased or severely handicapped because of birth accidents and somehow There was this kind of don't ask don't tell policy in addition to her gaslighting people into convincing them that it was their fault and not her fault So essentially now we're 15 years later a bunch of the midwives actually got together and essentially Like booted her off the island. They're like you cannot practice here anymore because this was not an isolated event as it turned out so Yeah, but that was a it was a powerful moment and thank you for reminding me of that because I had completely Forgotten about it. But you know, there is We talked about this a little bit, but the birth process even if you are an atheist and you're not sure what you believe There's something very connected and spiritual about the process of being pregnant and also going through the birth portal and even A newborn baby. It's like it's touching this liminal space between The multi-dimensional world and the physical world and you can't You can't run from that. There's something different in that space Which is also why I think it's so brilliant that you talk about the postpartum period the way you do because The baby's here, but not here. There's there's something different there and you have to care take it with a different level of intention for sure So true. Thank you for sharing that and it's I love that you point out too. It's like fear mongering Is one thing informing and sharing Is so different Yeah, and it's it's a different intention, right? Some people will just offer unsolicited fear-based Conversation I think it is you know people do have birth traumas and there are things that go wrong and I remember really vividly even with river somebody Was talking about something and I because I had bolstered myself through four births learned to say Hey, I really appreciate that you went through that birth trauma. I'm about to give birth in a few weeks So I'm gonna step out. I just I can't have that in my head right now But I really feel for you and like I've been through it with my first So sometimes there's also this sort of Communication dance that you have to do where you're not kind of like shutting someone's trauma down But you also are learning how to protect yourself and say I appreciate that also I have to kind of tune this out right now so that I can stay focused on the birth that I'm gonna have And that can be quite the dance is learning how to Walk that in between space where you're not pushing somebody away or shaming them But you're also learning how to stand up for yourself, which to your point earlier in the podcast That's a lesson that you have to learn as a parent no matter what so better to do it as soon as possible So can you just tell people where we can find this book and how people can follow along with your body of work? Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. Um, my book is called growing together and it can be found anywhere where books are sold My website is karsten dash mire.com. I host circles for pregnancy and postpartum And my instagram is at ccmire Thank you so much for being on the show. It's always beautiful just to watch you Literally grow up and then also grow this body of work I love that this book is a permission slip to really return to your own inner wisdom And I think you've done such a beautiful job of embodying Everything that you've been through as a dual and also just how you show up in the world as karson mire And it's always an honor to know you and be a part of your life So if this episode spoke to you or you know somebody that's Going through birth right now or they're preparing to get pregnant Please share this far and wide and be sure to follow along with karson on instagram And definitely go pick up that book and I'll drop it in the show notes. Thank you so much everybody. I'll see you on the next episode Your brain isn't broken. It's running an old code Break method is a system that maps your neurological patterns decodes your emotional distortions and rewires your behavior fast No talk therapy spiral no getting stuck in your feelings Just logic-based rewiring in 20 weeks or less head to break method.com and see what your brain is really up to Your brain is wired for deception But here's the truth patterns can be broken The code can be rewritten once you hear the truth You can't go back. So the only question is are you ready to listen? You