The 8 Life Lessons that Hoda Kotb Follows

Hoda is globally recognized as one of our most well-known and our foremost journalists. It's also an author and an entrepreneur. She's an Emmy award-winning co-anchor of NBC News today. And she was the co-host of Today with Hoda and Jenna. When I graduated college by my count at that time, it was 27 nose. And I actually do think the secret to our business is if you don't quit, someone's hiring you. You connect to people with your weakness, not with your strength. That's one of the great secrets to human connection. But a lot of people, they miss that and trying to become successful. My last day, Arthur's was so crazy. I heard my dad's voice clear as if he were in the room. And he said, everything's going to be just fine today. By the way, your dad is still alive. Because of this. It's beautiful. No way. It was really beautiful. Can we make a book out of this? This seems like it should be. Hi everybody. Welcome to Office Hours. I'm Arthur Brooks. This is my show about bringing love and happiness to more people. I want you to be a happiness teacher. And that's what this show and that's what all of my work are really all about. Lifting people up, bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love, using real science and real ideas. I talk about a different aspect of happiness and love every week on the show. And this week, I want to talk about something that brings people, well, a lot of unhappiness sometimes, but it doesn't have to. And that's changes in life. I couldn't think of anybody better to discuss changes in life than Hota Kobi, my friend, who's been a friend of mine for a number of years now. Somebody who has a life really in the limelight for journalism has done so many amazing things, but has had so many changes in life. Fun, uncomfortable, scary, wonderful. Hey friends, a lot of you know that I keep a very high protein diet. 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I started buying David Protein bars, and now I'm pleased that they're sponsoring this show as well. So whether you're on the go or hitting the gym, if you're trying to meet your protein target, David Protein is a good way for you to do it. That's why I'm doing it, and that's what I'm carrying when I'm on the road. So head over to DavidProtein.com slash Arthur. They've got a special offer for you. If you buy four cartons, they'll give you the fifth carton for free. You're going to love that. And you can also find David Protein in stores by looking for the store locator. So enjoy. I'm going to give her bio here, even though most of you don't need it. Hoda is globally recognized as one of our most well-known and our foremost journalists. It's also an author and an entrepreneur. She's an Emmy award-winning co-anchor of NBC News today. And she was the co-host of today with Hoda and Jenna. She's also the host of a very popular podcast that I've been a guest on before, and that I really love making space with Hoda Kotby. And she's the CEO and founder of a brand new wellness and community platform, Joy 101, full disclosure. I'm on the advisory of that really wonderful new venture. She's a New York Times bestselling author of nine books. She's written nine books. That's right, nine. Her newest title is Jump and Find Joy. I love this book, read this book, embracing change in every season of life. The most important word as far as I'm concerned in that title is change, which is her theme today. Hi, Hoda. First of all, can I just say how happy I am? I'm just admiring you as you were saying all those beautiful words. And I'm like, God, I love that guy. Thank you. So I'm just happy you're in my life. Thank you. I appreciate that so very much. It's been such a wonderful thing to get to know you over the past few years. I can't exactly remember what it was, but I wrote an article that you read at a particular time in your life. It was about how to understand change in the second half of life. Tell me about how we have we found each other. Well, I mean, first of all, you were somebody who were, you were like in the atmosphere around me. We were destined like two magnets to come together and have a moment together. And I had heard about you. And I had seen articles you had written, especially ones about change. And I saw you linking arms with Oprah. And Jenna was like, there's this great guy. Arthur Brooks, he's amazing. And everywhere I went, I felt like I was just missing like knowing you and seeing you. And I so admired your work because I'm an emotional feeler when it comes to things. And I trust my gut and all this stuff. And I didn't ever imagine like science would become part of any story that I would be living. And for you to have shown like through all your research and science that things I was feeling were valid. And I wanted to be in your aura. I wanted to be around you. And I think Oprah sort of gave you to all of us. But I'm just happy that all of the work you're doing is out there for people to grab onto. And change is the biggest part of it. It really is. As the one thing we can count on is that we can't count on things for very long. And that's why change is so important. That's why your work has been so meaningful to so many people. Including me when we started actually having conversations with each other. I thought, wow, this is really the application of what I've been trying to talk about. And the experiences that you've had. And that's really where I want to start. Because the story of your career in life are so full of interesting and beautiful changes. And that's what I want to talk about. All sort of the nuance that comes in from the, you know, the, well, the change that is the story of your life. Maybe many people watching us actually don't know your origins. Or wherever you board. I was born in Norman, Oklahoma. My parents are from Egypt and they immigrated here in the 60s. And why did they come here? Well, my dad was a petroleum engineer and he wanted to get his doctorate degree. And my mom was a lawyer and a library. She was in library science and she wanted to get her advanced degrees. And why they came was why everybody comes. Like they knew that life could be amazing here. In Egypt, in some cases, you could get your doctorate degree and still set at a desk with no phone. You know, or you could go to America. So they chased it. And we were raised like as Red, White, and Blue, as you can imagine. It was the, it was the generation of assimilation. And so they were like, Nike's and backpacks. And you know, other than our funny names and our crazy hair and stop sign glasses, you know, that no one could pronounce any of the, any of those things. We were raised in that way. And, but they did, I remember watching them and thinking to myself, wow, like they flew across the ocean. They are in a country that they have, they don't have a soul in. And they made this beautiful life, you know, for us. Are they still alive? My mom is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's, um, she's doing well. Yeah. Where does she live? She lives in Virginia. She is the ultimate optimist. She falls in love daily with a new meal, something she saw on TV, a perfume scent. I met a friend like literally falls in love. And then I look, I think that's it. Like if you can keep falling in love at age 89, like I could cry thinking about it. But she was just with us. The hangout and she's coming again for Christmas and she'll come again and again and again. Yeah. And she's just taking a big bite out of life. She's fully alive, right? I mean, look at that. Her spirit's like a child. I mean, and I think about some 40 year old friends who I have are so cranky and old and like, and like you're like, go away. I know. But she's like vibrant, bubbly. Yes, like you know, it was this great saint in the fourth century, St. Irenaeus, who said that the glory of God is a person fully alive. That sounds like your mom. I want to cry. So it's exactly like her. And I think being in that, like looking at that and thinking to yourself as a child all the way up till now, I'm 61 is like, that's, that's normal. Like this is normal to be optimistic. It's normal to see the bright side. It's normal. It's just the enthusiasm of life is just an incredible gift. And she's, she suffered though, right? As long as she never, she didn't have any heart. Well, I mean, my dad passed when she was in her early 50s and we were in college. And so I think to have a loss like that, it was, I mean, for us as kids, I remembered, I actually remembered sitting outside of her bathroom while she was in the shower, crying and just thinking to myself, like, make it all go away, like make this pain. Stop. But to, to realize that she's lived almost as long without him and has formed this rich and lovely life with full of friends and trips and adventures and things, it's like a nice model to be able to watch. It's important because, you know, this is one of the biggest changes that people actually endure is that which is characterized by grief. And neuroscientists actually study grief. Grief actually involves a little part of the limbic system of the brain called the dorsal anterior singulate cortex. We have a, a grief organ effectively. We're supposed to grieve. And the reason is because we're supposed to be averse to losing people that we love. But we can't avoid it, which means that sadness, that sadness, that grief is actually a normal part of life. We're built for sadness, but we're built for recovery. We're built to learn and we're built to grow on the basis of this. And did you see that in your mother? She was, she had real sadness. I mean, of course, she didn't want to lose her father. Did she grow as a person as a result? She did. She, I mean, she didn't leave her bed for a while. And I remember it. I remembered thinking because I was in college, I was afraid to go back to school. And my brother was in college with me. And my sister was out and she was home. But she, it took a while. But one thing that she did probably months after was she said, I'm going on a trip. And we're like, what? She went to Paris and London. And she sent us a picture of her on the back of a motorcycle, like going on a ride with someone. But dude. Yeah, dude. And I remember going, oh my god. But what she was saying was, hey, life. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was on a plane two days ago. And there was a woman sitting next to me. And I said, how are you? She said, great. I'm 80 something. And she said, I lost my husband of 52 years. And I said, oh my god, she was, this is my first flight alone. And I said, wow. And she said, as a single lady. And that's how she framed it. She goes, I'm single. My kids hate when I say that. But this woman for the first time was flying by herself in her whole life of the 80 something years. And she saw the glory in it. Yeah, yeah. So this is the first, photos first lesson of change is reframe tragedy is opportunity. Reframed change, whether it's positive or negative, truly is opportunity because it is, because it is. Whether you want the opportunity or not. Right. It's coming. It's coming. And if you don't actually see it as an opportunity for learning and growth, you've actually, you have all the pain, but you have none of the gain. Right? And you'll learn after your mother didn't you? Yeah, I did. And I learned. I'm not learning it from you. Right. No, no, I just learned it from you. This is what is lesson number one. So where'd you grow up? I grew up in, we grew up in Morgan, town, West Virginia. How did you move from Norman, real Oklahoma to Morgan, to West Virginia? My dad got a job. I know. Cool places. That's right. We love the mountaineers. We used to cheer for WVU in the, in the stadium. My dad got a job as a professor at WVU. Oh, no kidding. And we moved there and we went to school there and grew up there and lived there and fit in there. And it was beautiful. You know, this is so interesting. But we moved from Morgan, town, to Virginia at some point. And we never knew why. We moved. We just, my parents, like we're moving. And we loved it. Like we love West Virginia. We didn't want to move. We had like wild, wonderful West Virginia. It's pretty. You have people like knives. Yeah, we love, we just loved it. And we couldn't believe someone would move us out of this place. Many, many, many years later, my brother was looking through my dad's desk of all of his old papers after my dad had passed. And there was a letter in there from WVU. My dad had written the, the, the dean or something. And he wrote, dear Dean, so and so. My name is Dr. Kotby. I'm a professor of petroleum engineering. I have more education than the other professors. I have more of this. More kids are asking for my class. But I'm the lowest paid guy. Can you please bring me up to scale? Something, something that, in fact. And the follow-up letter was, you're making all you'll ever make at WVU. So we moved. Now, we didn't know why we moved. My dad didn't say, hey, just so you know, you're going to have to work harder. You're going to have to be more. This is what's going to happen to you. So I didn't see like bad stuff coming at me because he didn't tell us it was coming. Like he, I think what he was, he shielded us from thinking that every time we got a rejection, it was going to be because of you're from here or you're different. And that may be why. So we never spoke a word of it. And it was probably one of his great gifts that he left behind. But where did you go? So we moved to Virginia at that time. And we lived in Alexandria, which is where we continued. And that's where he ended up passing away. But where did you for living there? He worked at the Department of Energy. And then after he'd been there for many years, the most stable job in the world, like who would ever give that up. He was like one of the top guys, you know, wow, wow, wow. And he decided in the middle of all this that he was going to start his own company called IPCS, which was International Petroleum Consulting Service. And I remember his business card, because it said, Dr. Kotby, you know, President, I remember thinking myself, my god, my god, it's the President. This is so crazy. But so he left stability to fry, open a, you know, have a building, hire a secretary, do the whole thing. So he did that. He did. Was he happy with the job of the government and the later as an entrepreneur? He was happy with the government job, but I think he wanted more. I think there was stability with the government job, which is, you know, insurance and all the things you need. And then this other thing was kind of scary. But I think he wanted to try. So he swung for it. And he had, he had the company. He had employees. How old was he when you died? He was 53. He was young. So he passed away really early. And did he get sick or did he? No, he was on the treadmill at like, they used to have these workout places called the holiday spa that were in like malls. And my parents would always go there and worked out and then go shopping or whatever. And my mom said that he, you know, they were both in there. And he's, she's, he's always the first one out, waiting for her. And she came out first and she was surprised. Yeah. And then she saw some medics running. And she had a heart attack. Yeah, a heart attack on the treadmill. So your parents were gym rats. Yeah, like you. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah, they were my, my mom ran a marathon at 60 and continued and continues to this day. She just sent me a screen grab of 10,000 steps that she just took. Yeah, but I understand you a little bit better now hearing about your dad. I didn't know the story about your dad. So your dad, this is interesting. Everybody faces constraints. Everybody faces outside limits on their own growth. They do all the time. And sometimes it's just and sometimes it's unjust. And in the case of WVU was really, really unjust. And he turned that constraint into a decision, which is another way of reframing problems as opportunities in your life. But you know, you look at your constraints and say, okay, which one of these is actually a decision? He made the positive decision to take his family to Virginia work for the government and start his own company. This is, now I understand you as an entrepreneur a lot better because of these two stories. And this is a second big lesson, isn't it? Look at the constraints and don't be bound by those constraints. Don't let anybody tell you, don't let yourself tell you that these are constraints that actually become impossible to turn into changes in your life, right? Because he never said the word, look what they did to me there. Right. I didn't, that was not part of the conversation. He wasn't a victim. He wasn't a victim. Because he decided he wasn't a victim. Yes. Wow. You would have loved him. Well, this is subversive. This is countercultural and his society. Yeah. Because everybody's telling young people today, you're oppressed, you're a victim. Yeah. You should be aggrieved, you know, and I kind of feel like people are age are telling young people, are kind of trying to conscript them into some sort of culture war by making him feel sad and angry. It is true, though. It's just so, it's just not right. It is true. Yeah. Right. And yeah, they sort of pushed through and said, this is what we have now. And I'm sure, look, I'm sure he was disappointed. I'm sure he heard his feelings. I'm sure it was like, wow. It probably is outrageous. Yeah. I mean, it sounds crazy. But at the same time, you're right, he didn't carry it on. And so, you know, it's funny because, you know, we all had lots of rejections in life and I had plenty to speak of. And I'm so grateful he didn't tell me as I was like going on job searches or going here, going there and getting, no, no, no. You know, I would have immediately said, well, here that is again, here it comes. That same thing that happened, you know, back then is happening again. But. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, people can look at your life right now as just sort of charmed, right? It's sort of perfect. And what we're finding is that, you know, you had a life like everybody else does. What you did was you learned these lessons from these people who are so instrumentally important in teaching you the lessons of what a good life is really all about. You went from there to, I mean, there's a lot in between that and becoming one of the most famous journalists in the world. So, so you, you grew up, where'd you go to college? Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech, nice. And was your study? I studied communications. I mean, the department wasn't known for it. I actually went to the college because my sister, when she said it was great. So, I joined a sorority and I liked communications and I was sort of, you know, I knew that was a passion of mine, but I, you know, and my brother went because I did. Yeah. And you came out to be a journalist. You intended to be on television? That's what you wanted. I liked life. I thought there was something cool about life. I just thought, what do you mean live? Like immediate. Like, I didn't want to write for a paper. I wanted to be... Live is live on camera. I want to be at the thing. It's happening now. Like I sort of like that urgency of it. And I like that idea. So, I said, well, let me try television journalism. And I did have a professor back in the day who, you know, said to me, look, I want to save you a bunch of heartache and a lot of, you know, just wasted time. Very few people are going to make it in this industry. Right now, I'm just going to help you out here. PR is probably a much better pathway. And I remember going home and telling my dad this. And I said, oh my god, this guy said this. And he goes, who said it? And I go, the professor of what? I go of, you know, communications. What's Virginia Tech known for? I go engineering. Engineering. He goes, exactly. You go do what you want to do. Okay. This is not someone who knows what he's talking about. Yeah. And this is, and your dad is a man who knows constraints. Yes. And he knows what you do when you face constraints. Yes. So this is your first, yes. This is your, you're taking the advice that you've actually learning from your parents that you've learned at their knee by watching them. Not from what they told you, but what they actually did. And this is the legacy. This is, by the way, your dad is still alive. Because of this. It's beautiful. By the way, it was really beautiful. That I really do think about a lot. I know you do. I can tell. You still love him. And he still loves you. He's loving you every day. So tell me about TV. When I graduated college at Virginia Tech, I did have a single job interview one lined up. And it was at Enrichment at some local station. And I had a, you know, someone who I knew who had done an internship with called and said, can you interview her for a job? And I thought I was going to go live in Richmond, in Virginia, which is like an hour from my house. And so I drove down there and with a resume tape and a blow dry and a cool green suit. And I'm like, here we go. I'm going to live here. I like Richmond. I handed the news director my tape. And I was like looking around the newsroom and planning my little new life. And he popped it in the machine and he stopped it after about 30 seconds. And he goes, oh, you know, you're so not ready for Richmond. And I go, why? Why? Not ready for Richmond. So you're not very good. You're green, you know, sorry. Your tape's not good. I mean, my God, or, you know, we have a certain caliber here. But, you know, come back in a couple of years. Maybe I'll look at you again. I was like, oh, my God. Like, you know, a couple of years as college grad feels like forever. And as I'm leaving, it was like, I got a buddy of mine, though, who's hiring? And maybe he'll hire you. He's in Roanoke. It's a smaller market, you know, etc. He said, but he's going on a news director's conference with me. But if you drive now, I'll tell him you're coming if you want. And he'll probably pop your tape and I go call him and tell him I'm coming. So I was in my mom's car. I borrowed it, you know, and I saw it called my mom. I go, mom, I'm going to need the car for a few more hours. Oh, did you get the job? And Rich, my God, mom, I don't want Rich Men. I'm going to Roanoke. So I drove to Roanoke. That's where the action is. The Roanoke. Four more hours. Guy takes my tape, puts it in the machine, looks at it, stops it. And he said, oh, God, you are so not ready for Roanoke. And I was like, why? Is you're not good? You're green. God, this tape is not good. You know, blah, blah, blah. You got to learn. You got to learn your this and that. You don't have the basics. Sorry, you know, by. And I'm like walking out of there. Oh, wait, wait, he goes, there's actually I got a buddy of mine who's hiring too. I mean, you seem like a nice person. He might hire you, but he's in Memphis, Tennessee. And I go, okay. And he goes, he's going to the same conference I'm going to. But if you go, he's leaving tomorrow morning. I mean, if you're willing, you could drive and keep driving. So I said I drive. So I drove across the great state of Tennessee. 12 hours, whatever it was. Roll up, hand him the tape. He looks at it. He pops it in for men. He goes, why would he ever send you to Memphis? We're a bigger market. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like this was a waste of your time. This is not a good tape on and on. So he referred me to somebody. I was driving around all over. I kept getting names. And then I would get rejected in like NBC, ABC and CBS. It happened by my count at that time when it was all said and done after I'd been driving and driving and getting rejected in three three affiliates per city. It was 27. Nose. I got rejected in Dothan Alabama, which is this big. I got I got to know there. And finally, it was over, I thought. And I was thinking of that professor who told me I was not good. And I was thinking he was probably right. And I was just driving home after many days. And I saw like a sign, like a CBS. I sign. I was like, what is that? And since CBS like our eyes on you, greenville, Mississippi. I'd been driving through whatever had his burg and greenville was was there. So I said, well, let me stop in there and get a get rejected. Get a map and get out. This news director. So stop it for quick rejection. Yeah, that was it. Because it was I had so many. I was like, I'm tired of I was almost now immune. I didn't even. So this guy's like, how you doing? My name is Stan Sandrowney. I'm the news director. I was sports director yesterday. And they promoted me. I was like, oh, my God, what is happening? I go, here's my horrible tape. He goes, what's your name? I go, my name's Hoda. Come on in, Hilda. Let's go check out this tape. See what we got? He puts that tape in. He plays it. He watches all of it. It's terrible. He watches the whole thing. He stops it after 30 minutes or whatever it was. And he looks at me and he goes, Hilda, does that say? Yes. Close enough. He said, I like what I see. I was like, you do? I was like exploding in tears, exhausted. This guy Stan changed my life. And so they asked us at 30 Rock. Bring someone who changed the course of your life. So I brought Stan to 30 Rock. And he was wandering around going, oh, my God, I broke his skinny. He was like, oh, I knew it. I knew from what minute I seen you. I was like, how? Like nobody thought I was any good, but this guy. So that first one was the one. Like once I got the first one, I said to myself, now that I'm in the door. But and I actually do think the secret to our business is if you don't quit, someone's hiring you. Right. Somebody will. You're going to wear down. It's all subjective. I might remind someone of someone they hate. I might remind someone of their old girlfriend. I might remind someone of someone who was a terrible reporter. I, who knows? But you just keep going until somebody locks with you and says, yes. Yeah. So this is, this is really, I mean, wow. This is an applied example of what your parents had taught you that would you had seen and how do parents teach their kids, by the way, there's all this interesting literature about what do you tell them? It doesn't matter what you tell them. You have two daughters. It doesn't matter what you tell them. All that matters is what they see. That's it. People often ask me, how do I, what do I do? So my kids will, we'll practice my faith. And it doesn't matter what you tell them. It matters that they see what you're doing. You're doing it next to their bed at night. That's what matters because they'll say, oh, that, that's what it means to be a grown-up to stand before the Lord. That's what it means to be a grown-up. And what you learned from your parents was what they, what you saw in their worst moments, what you saw in their, in the constraints that were their lives. And then you had to, you had to face 27 constraints. Boom, boom, boom. And you learned just because there is rejection, it doesn't mean you're bad. On the flip side, by the way, no doubt you've learned that just because everybody loves you doesn't mean you're good all the time too, right? Yeah. That's, which requires a lot of humility too, because then when you're in the top of the world, a lot of people, they read their press releases and believe them, right? I feel like a lot of my career, I have been fighting and struggling. So that, I mean, I actually sometimes had like these moments where I thought to myself, they're going to knock on my door here at 30 Rock and tell me to go on home because they know, you know, because you feel like what, you know, often you feel like, you know, there are a lot of really good, like, what am I doing here? All successful people feel imposter syndrome. All of them do. And what you find is that the people who recognize that or the people actually do the best in life, the people who actually sort of lose their imposter syndrome and start to actually believe that they're not an imposter. Is that true? It's true. It actually becomes a problem. I've written about imposter syndrome. Oh, wow. People talk about how terrible it is, if that is for your mental health and all that. But really the truth of the matter is that none of us is terrible and none of us is great. It's right. Just people is the whole point. And if you think you're terrible and you give up, well, shame on you. But if you think you're great and you think that nothing can bad can ever happen to you, well, shame on you, right? This is the lesson. This is the third lesson. The third lesson. That's so good. Yeah. That's so good. And so then this, this story, journalist of career got started there and hopscotched around, yeah. Yeah, all over the place. And then, and then as they said in the sign filled, yada, yada, yada, you want to end up, you know, hosting the television show. So what was between here and there just doing? Just hopscotching around local news. And then I got, you know, someone at NBC happened to have been in New Orleans when I was working there as an anchor. And I had a show that must have been one of the ones that like I had many bombs. But this one must have been a good one. So she's like, come up and try out for date lines. So I did. So I ended up working for a date line for probably 10 or 11 years. And during all that time, if I'm being totally honest, like I love talking to people. But the craft of it, I felt like I was putting a circle in a square a little bit because, you know, they want like I was in Baghdad and Afghanistan. I went to these places and there was tragedies and wars and natural disasters. And I found myself like heartbroken like I struggled with that kind of thing. Yeah, I tried to do it because that was that was it. And it had so many good parts. Like I saw the human resilient side. Like you're at a terrible tragedy and you watch somebody just like rise from the ashes and tell an incredible story about how they survived it. And you're like, wow. So there was enough that kept me in this place. But I also felt I wasn't up to par with everybody at that time because I was a local news person. Come to the network with all these Emmy award-winning rock stars. And it was clear that I was out of my lake. And in fact, Neil Shapiro, who's my boss. I was thinking to myself, well, I'm not better. I'm not great at interviews. I'm not great at writing, but I have a good voice. So at least let me just start there. And so my boss called me at Neil. He goes, hey, I need to talk to you about something. I go, okay, he's like, it's your voice. I go, oh my god. I go, what? He goes, your story's all sound the same. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. They don't sound different. He goes, read this line and he writes down the words. And then something amazing happened. He goes, read it. I go. And then something amazing happened. He goes, punch it. I go, okay. And then something amazing happened. He goes, I didn't say louder. I said, punch it. I go, Neil, I know what you're talking about. He goes, give me the paper. He goes. And then something amazing happened. I go, oh. So he goes, so I'm like, well, how am I going to do that? So I'm walking out of his office. And I hear Keith Morrison from Dateline with the pipes of, you know, not- Yeah, I just got this set. And I'm standing outside listening to him track a piece. And I wait for the full 45 minutes till he's done. I'm listening to the whole thing because they were playing it out. So you could hear him. And when he came out, I go, what are you doing in there? He goes, what? I go, what are you doing in there? He goes, oh, I'm reading my kid a bedtime story. I go. And then something amazing happened. I go, oh my god. So it like unlocked a piece. So then I got confidence there. And then here and then there. So I started getting better at it, but it still wasn't the fit. And then one day I was filling in on the today's show as like doing a piece or whatever. And there was a producer who loved me. And she said to me, I was about to sit down and do an interview. And I was, I was going to get just right. I want to get out on time, hit all my points. I was going to, and they were going to like that. And it was perfect and perfectly boring. So if you did it right and you got out on time and you asked all your questions, there's nothing new there, nothing fresh, nothing. So she runs out on the Saturday, my name's Amy Rosenblum. And before I get started, she goes, they think you're boring. I go, what? Just they think you're boring. You got to judge it up. Like you got to give them more. You can't just follow your things and try not to make a mistake. And I go, I don't know. Oh, I'm like hyperventilating. I'm like, oh my god. So I sit with whoever this person was. And it didn't afford that. So afterwards she talked to me. She goes, be who you are in my office. Don't be this person who's trying not to mess up. She goes, it's not working. And later on through a whole confluence of events, including an illness that kind of gave me courage to go ask for something that I wanted. I'm going to ask you about next year. So I ended up getting the today's show with Kathy Lee, that hour. And yada yada yada. That's the day of the show. But here's lesson four. What? Lesson four in coming. Come, give it to me. You're a student. You're a student. Your whole life, you kept learning and learning and learning. And the people who really struggle are the people who think they've got it and then they stop. And they want to be lifted up on the basis of who they are as opposed to the person that they're actually becoming. Change is all about the gradual process of improving yourself because you have the humility to understand that people have things to teach you. That the world has things to teach you. And when you learn those things, you will be better. And that's a strong belief. That is a strong, and by the way, that is one of the great beliefs of winners throughout society. They're not done learning. And I know for a fact, you're still not doing anything. Please, I feel like every day, I'm in, yeah. I'm beginning again. And that's a way of life. That is amazing. So this is the fourth lesson, folks. This is the fourth lesson from Hoda. Well, someone write these down for me. Oh, I'm writing them down. Oh, I'm writing them down. Yeah, that's right. Okay, this is great. And you referred in passing to actually getting sick. When did this happen? It was 2007 and I was healthier than I could have ever imagined. Jim, right? Yeah. The man in the central park, eight apples. Like, you know, his apples were everything. The apples, yeah. I mean, the apples. So I went for a checkup and the doctor said, oh, you might need to get a biopsy on something we found on your right breast or, you know, go get it checked. So I said, okay. So I went and got a check and literally forgot about it because I knew that those things it wasn't, not for me. Like I just did not imagine it. And I was in my office. You were young. Yeah. I was in my office. I was like, this can't be anything. Sitting in my office and I'm with an intern and we're talking about the business and I'm trying to pump her up. I see Mount Sinai on my phone and she goes, oh, do you need me leave? And I said, oh, no, no, I'll just take this call. Take two seconds and then we'll get back to it. So I take the call and the guy on the phone says, hi, and I don't remember exactly, but like anyone who's gotten a call, not good news for you, cancer, come in, you know, more scans and I was like cancer, no, don't. So I hang up the phone and I'm looking at this kid and she goes, I should leave. You said without me, because all I said was, uh-huh, uh-huh, click. And I go, yeah, and just before I go, can I ask you for something? And I said, oh, yeah, sure, whatever you want. Picture, you know, I was thinking, and I mean time I had spinning. Just, can I just give you a hug? But okay, I go, yeah, that's okay. I was like holding this kid and crying and she was probably like, what's going on? But it was- She knew something was going on. She knew. And so I had, um, I had to get a mastectomy and have a long, you know, recovery process. How long was that recovery process? I did, it's called a triumflapper, you change, move stuff up. Anyway, it probably took three months, I think. And you're a super public about it. Well, I actually- Obviously later. Yeah, I wasn't, I actually didn't want to say a word about it because I was afraid of satis and stuff. So I didn't say anything and, um, Matt Lauer at the time was doing aware in the world is Matt Lauer. He used to do these pieces where he would fly all over the world and people would guess where he was and he'd pop up and he'd always have a corresponded in each city. Dubai or wherever, wherever, Ireland. So he called me knowing I wasn't well and he said, do you want to do one of these? As you- I know you're healing and I said, yeah, I do. I didn't want to stay home anymore. I was, you know, watching lawn order, like feeling terrible. And so I went and I flew to Ireland and I felt horrible. It was like, I was like, I'm not healed. The doctor cautioned me and I should have got to listen to where I shouldn't have gone. And I was on the way. I did my piece smiling and faking it in Ireland and I was getting on the flight home and there was a man next to me and I wanted to put my earbuds in and go to sleep. And the guy goes, how you doing? I go, good. He goes, are you on one of those shelves and I'm like, oh no, please no. No, it's not the time. I couldn't even, I wasn't functioning. And he goes, yeah, aren't you with Roker? And I go, yeah, are they funny? And I go, yeah, there was something about him likeable. So he started asking me questions about life and I was asking him. I thought, be good, go, good distraction and then I'll go home. And he was, what's on your arm? And I said, oh, it's a compression sleeve. He said, what's a four? I said, well, I had a procedure in the doctor said it's a good idea to when you fly to wear it. He goes, what procedure? I go, I had an operation, you know. Anyway. And he goes, what was it? What was the operation? I go, oh my God. I go, well, and I kind of liked him. He was like, I go, well, you know what? I go, I had breast cancer. I said, but I hope when you get off this plane, you don't say, oh, I sat next to this girl with breast cancer. And he goes, what is wrong with you? I go, he goes, breast cancer is part of you. He said it's like going to college and getting married or working at NBC. He goes, let me give you some advice. You can go to sleep. I said, okay. He goes and this stuck with me forever. He said, don't hog your journey. It's not just for you. And I was like, I was sobbing. He was thinking of how many people you could help on this plane ride home. He goes, you can put your stuff deep in your pocket. You can take it to your ribs or you can help somebody. That's what you do. So I made a decision right then. That was when I did it. And that's when I came back because they wanted me to say something on the show like why I've been gone and whatnot. And I decided in that moment, why not? Because I was looking for people who are on the other side too who had healed from breast cancer. I was, you know, when someone said they were, I was like, oh, when? Oh, you're fine now? Oh, so you're okay. Like, you can have a life after. So that was the decision to go public. It was because of this Ken Dwayne guy on the plane who I still keep in touch with. Do you really? Yeah. Because he was like that. He was your pivot. Yeah. If not for him, if I would have gotten the ear button, I probably would have just been limping through life trying to stuff it down. Angel. Sent to you. And that changed how you talked about it. But that changed your approach, didn't it? Because you've talked about a lot of difficult things in your life and you do your own purpose, right? Yeah. Why? I think it's like sometimes you feel you're by yourself. I just think it's important so that you don't feel alone. And also, I think, I mean, you said something at the beginning, but it's like when something terrifying happens and you're still standing, whether wobbly or not, like I got from that experience a big, like four letter, I mean, four word, not four letter word, but four level without probably that too. He said a few of those in your life, but that's normal too. But it was like, it was you can't scare me. And I was like, oh yeah. Like, you know, everything seemed very tiny in comparison. All the big, gigantic fears seems kind of stupid. Yeah. You know, I think I got less than five here. I think I got your less than five. What's less than five? I was wondered. People feel like they know you. People like the, I mean, they don't know you personally, but they feel like they know you personally. You connect to people. The way anybody can connect with people they don't know, not through their strengths. They don't say, I'm Hota Kotby and I'm really famous that doesn't create a connection with anybody. I'm Hota Kotby and I had breast cancer and my parents died and my dad died when I loved a lot when he was young and I was even younger and you connect to people with your weakness not with your strength. That's one of the great secrets to human connection that a lot of people, they miss that in trying to become successful. And that's one of the reasons that you can be a happy person in spite of a kind of a weird life, be kind of an unusual life, a life in the limelight. You can be truly a happy person because you're connecting with other human beings and the only way that you do that is the connective tissue between any two people is suffering, not success. And you've shared that. You shared that with me. You shared that with everybody. You're sharing that with people right now and you've shared that over the course of your career. That's a great lesson. It's a great lesson. You really ought to have a clean ex that's like your table. I know. I mean, come on. The more these you do, the more you're going to need. So things are proceeding and happy ending to that recovery, full recovery, full recovery. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. And you know, God bless America and our medical system were and you know, the technology and the science that actually makes it possible because you know, 100 years ago, cyanara, right? I mean, Dr. Freyish Noble, who I remember as I was being wheeled in looked at my mother who was, you know, sobbing. And I thought boy, I would so much rather be, you know, if I could like I wanted her pain to be erased, but Freya said, Dr. Freyish Noble, Freya because I love her so much said to my mom, I'm going to take care of your little girl and she did. Yeah. And she did. And she did fast forward a few years. We've had some other very, very public changes in your life. Joyful changes. You had children. Yeah. I mean, and I thought because of the cancer piece of it, they told me there will be, you know, one of the, one of the worst parts of it is you won't have kids. Right. And I remembered thinking to myself, don't be selfish, don't be greedy. You have such a great life. Stop trying to, and I was trying to push it down because I always wanted kids, but I thought let's not verbalize that anymore because it can't happen. So it's like saying I want to be an astronaut or something like, why would I say it? So I, and I was always told one of my best girlfriends, Jen Miller, I always said to her, like, oh, I want to teach school when I'm done. But, but like little kids like first grader, kindergarten, and she was like, oh, I said, I want to have a summer camp, you know, little kids. And she was like, oh, and then one day we're walking along and she said, well, you know, we never wanted kids. And I just, I stopped her on one of our nice walks and I said, well, actually, Jen, I, I did. Which is, well, you never said it. I said, why didn't say it because it's like saying I want to go to the moon. It's not happening. But like most things in life, like when you verbalize weird things happen. And I remembered going home and seeing something on Axis Hollywood or something that Sandra Bullock had just adopted a baby from New Orleans named Louis. And I was like, how old is Sandra Bullock? Because I wanted to know if we were, and she was my exact age. And I was like, oh, my God, it is possible. And I remembered thinking to myself, okay, because you were single. I was single. Well, I was with, actually, I was with Joel. He's a guy who I had been with for at that point, just a year and a half. And I did tell him, I said, look, because he wanted to move in. And I did say before anything happens, I just want to let you know that you're not going to be my only roommate. And you know what? I mean, to Joel's incredible. He's a great guy. And to his credit, I remember saying, I want to discuss something with you. You know, again, he's, you know, got a daughter in law school. You know, he's already done, gone and done it all. And I go, but don't answer me now. I said, I want you to answer me later, like in a couple days or a week, even take your time. Let this marinate. And I said, I would like to explore adoption with you. And he said, oh, I don't need a week. He says, I already have parents. I don't need to be adopted by you. So he and I, he was all around that. Yeah. Good. And you know, it's funny. We had a room upstairs that was like an empty room that was going to be her room. And I remember Joel saying, you know, well, they said it might take a year or two years. So how about if I just use that for my home office? And then when she comes home, move on my stuff out. And I remember very adamantly saying, now, and he was like, what do you mean now? I go, we have to leave it. I said, we don't have, we need space for her. We have to be ready. Like, and- Well, expectant parents. Yes. Uh-huh. Yes. And like literally, I think it was three weeks later at the phone rang. And they said she's here. And I was like, oh my god, she's here. So parenthood came- Her was she born? She was born in Texas. Born in Texas. That's great. And went fast. It went. It was like literally a no time. Yeah. No time. Like if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her if you walk with her time my wife didn't have American citizenship. So she couldn't, she couldn't execute the adoption. So I had to go to myself. They'd never had a dad by himself doing this. And so everybody took great care of me because they just assumed I was completely incompetent. And I had two biological kids. I mean, I knew how to change diapers. I mean, I wound up giving other people advice. You know, it's actually okay. You know, this is not a bad sign. You know, that your baby's going to the bathroom too often or whatever happens to be. And it really was a really great experience. But of course, it is the greatest joy of life. I mean, holding her for the first time. Did you know her before? No, no. We just, all we got is a picture. And we were matched by the Chinese government with us. And this is after my wife had been having dreams. About a little girl, she dreamed about a little baby girl born and abandoned on a park bench in China. She had a dream. She couldn't, she had been this weird recurring dream. And so we started the process. You know, it was my wife's idea because she's a saint. And I'm a dude. And they matched us with a little baby girl that at 12 hours old had been abandoned on a park bench in a park in China. God is good. God is good. And now she's 22 years old and she's a second lieutenant in the US Marine Corps. God bless America. She's a tough little, a little angel too. It's a good thing. That's a good thing. I'm chills all over right now. I can't. And we're adopted parents. I think you should call your podcast chills. Because people are going to get them a lot. Yeah. No, no, no, no. So this is so beautiful. And so then your second daughter. Yeah. Oh, and it was and and and she's and she's she's an incredible kid. She's six years old. Hailey's now eight. Yeah. She is she's an incredible kid. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You go into your office at NBC and it's just full of, you know, art projects and pictures. That's all it is. It's mom, mom, mom, that's your, it looks like really your mom, right? This morning when I was leaving to go, I do an early morning workout. So and hope came in and crawled into bed with me and she goes, mom, just are you coming back after you exercise? And I go, yeah, just a snuggle. I go, yeah, she was mom. I love you. I go, honey. I love you more. And she goes, I was walking through her mom. Oh, yeah, just I love you the most. Now I'm going back to bed. Don't say anything. I go, okay. All right. So all of the like soul filling goodness. And you know, there's a funny thing that we find with a lot of people that they think they have to make a choice between being special in the world and choosing the only source of happiness that any of us can have, which is love. And you're living proof. This is lesson six, by the way, that happiness is love and you can choose it no matter where you are and what you're doing. Never be shackled by the outside world. It tells you that you have to chase that, that very special something that that success, that ambition, whatever it happens to be, that the the world tells you have to do something you can still choose love. And if you do, you'll be choosing happiness and your life is living testament to that, isn't it? Yeah. Let's go back to your career for a second. Oh my God. Come on. The last chapter we're working on chapter. I mean, I mean, I didn't preconceive these lessons. You're teaching me right here. So into this, I love this is real time. This is real time. Your story is just rich, rich, rich with the lessons that we need. Let's go back to your career because your career changed a lot. Just relatively recently, tell us about that. After 17 years at the very pinnacle of what you were doing, you made a decision. Yes. Yes. So I was hosting with Savannah. And that was such a, I mean, that was a wow because it was, we were the first kind of female team to ever anchor at the network level, which was a big deal. And then other local affiliates followed suit, like they would pop up with two female, it just wasn't heard up. So I knew we had done something special. I'd worked for years with Kathy Lee and years with Jenna and like had the loveliest and best of everything. One day, there were a couple things that started happening because I'd waited a long time for kids. So I was thinking about, you know, my time pie and Maria Schreiber, who's a dear friend, was over at one point. I love her. And she goes, how's your life? I go, good. She goes, well, let's see. So get a piece of paper. I was just to see about that. So she cut the paper up into different size square pieces. And each piece should correspond with the amount of time, energy, and love it requires in your life. So it should be like your kids, your job exercising, visiting your mother, hobbies, travel, black. So I did it. And she was like, so, oh, so your kids are more time and energy than your job. I was like, well, no, actually, they're not because we'll, once you flip those, okay. And do you really spend that much time exercising in this little time? No, no, actually. So I fixed it. She goes, well, there's your life. Do you like it? I was like, no, actually, I don't like it. I don't like it. I never stopped and looked at it from 35,000 feet. I didn't know what I was doing. I just kept doing it. You were letting life manage you as opposed to visiting your life, right? Yes. And so at that moment, it was close to my 60th birthday at the Today Show. And they were doing, they did like, Today Show does the best party ever. It's like the plaza and singing and signs. And Genesis Dad gave me a painting. It's like all kinds of, I was sobbing. By the way, Genesis Dad is George W. Bush at the former president of the United States. Just to clarify, clarifying. Who's a very good painter? Yes. I mean, the very skilled painter. By the way, the painting is hanging in my, in my house and it's the back of me and my girls walking. His paintings are full of love. Yes. Because he's full of love. Yes. It's an extraordinary person. No question. Yeah. And to have that, I mean, to head that piece, I think that was one, that tipped me over when I opened it on the, on the set. But as I was looking at their women were celebrating their 60th, and I was thinking, how could they're like, we're doing it together? I also weirdly thought to myself, like, this is the top of the wave. Like, I was like, this is it. This is what the top looks like. And I knew it. I knew it. Like, it wasn't getting better than that day. There was no, and I wasn't saying it to be like, oh, but no, no, no, it was the top, the tip top. And weeks earlier, I had interviewed an actor and he was describing this wave thing. And he said, hold up some waves or it's like the Oscar wave. You're riding it. You're like, oh, my God. And eventually that wave will, you know, crash. And then you paddle back out. And then what's your next one? Maybe your next one's an indie. Small, but it moves. You're like, I love it. And then you paddle back out. What's your next one? You know, were you going to get another Oscar? Maybe, maybe not, but you know the feeling. And so in that moment, I felt this strong like, I think this is it. Like, I thought, is that just a weird reaction to turning 60 and having a party and having all this emotion? And then I started getting like these signs that were coming to me. And one of them was my, I hope my little one was climbing a tree in our front yard. We have a small tree. And she was up and down it over and over. You know, I'm just watching her. Look, mom, look, mom, I'm up and down. Okay. And all of a sudden she's up the top. I go, honey, you're at the top again. I go, what are you going to do? She goes, oh, maybe it's just time to find a different tree. I go, what? She goes a different tree. Maybe I go different tree. So I was like, is this another, so you know how you start to think about it. And then and then I also thought about. Reis puzzle and that. And and also I love what I did. It was like probably like the best job I've ever had. But I think I was also ready for something like I had been making, you know, the same stuff in the kitchen over the course of 17 years and at the today show. And you know, like you start to get into a rhythm that you know that, oh, who? Which guest? Oh, it's this one. And I wanted, I wanted that, that next kind of thing. And I didn't really know 100 percent what it would be. But I sort of made a decision and it was like, I could sleep. I could put my head on the pillow and sleep, which was a real indicator for me if something's right. I wasn't tossing. I wasn't losing it. I was sleeping. And on the morning of my last day, I, Arthur's was so crazy. I heard my dad's voice clear as, as if he were in the room. And he said, everything is going to be just fine today. And I heard his, because I couldn't even remember if I remembered his voice. Do you know what I mean? It's been so long since I've heard it. And I, I literally jumped up in bed, you know, was like, okay, that's, that's reassurance. I go to work. Savannah and I were sitting. She was, we were holding hands. We're both crying. And Kermit, on the air, Kermit came on and sang Rainbow connection. And there's a line in Rainbow connection that says, I can't remember. It's like, I hear your voice from the other side or something. And Savannah's, because I told her about my dad, she looked at me. And I was like, oh my god, like, this is all, like, it's all happening at one moment. So anyway, it was, I knew, I knew it was right. And I knew it was going to be super painful and a real hard adjustment. Was it? Yeah. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, that's, that's called, in my business, that's called liminality. That's the, that's the time between the tides. Oh. You know, you've got the tides that come in and the tides that go out. But here's an interesting thing. You know, when I was a kid, I used to love the fish. I was really, really into it. Nobody in my family fished. And I remember the first time I tried to go, I was 11 years old and went to go fishing on the Oregon coast. I used to go, I grew up in Seattle, it'd go visit my aunt who had a trailer in Lincoln City, Oregon. I had this little fishing pole and I put all my paper route money into it. I was, it was like, it felt like I'd grown up in a log cabin or something. But anyway, and I'm fishing off the rocks. I didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't catching anything for several hours in an old, like, wizard mariner comes up to me. And he says, hey, kid, he's catching anything. And I said, no, not even a bite. And he says, because you're doing it wrong. And I said, what am I doing wrong, sir? And he says, you got to wait for the falling tide. That's the time between the tides when the tide is going out really, really, really fast. And I said, well, this makes sense. All the fish are guys said, no, no, that's what's stirring up the bait fish and the plankton and the fish go crazy. They'll bite anything that moves. He says, like, 45 minutes. So we just sat there for 45 minutes. He had his fishing pole. And he says, he's looking at his watch. He says, now, and we throw him in and we're pulling him out one another. We're pulling him out one after we catch 20 fish. And this goes on for half an hour. And we're exhausted. And afterwards, we're sitting on this rock. I mean, after he's just like, I didn't know this old guy. And he lights up a cigarette. He's getting all philosophical. I mean, he'd be arrested at this point, right? Today, any, any, any, any says kid, you know, during his call to falling tide when this happens during a falling tide, you can only make one mistake. And I said, what is it? He said, not having your line in the water, you get the point, right? You learn and you grow when you're between the tides. And that's what you just told me. That's, that's less than seven. Can we make a book out of this? This seems like it should be. Well, your memoir is a lesson. Oh my god. This is a masterclass. Hold on. Your life is a masterclass in how to do it. This is not a masterclass in how to become famous on TV, because that's not the point. Now, that's not the point at all. It's actually had to live a life. We're going to review these in a second. But, but first, before we do that in a round, we'll start a time because you know, you have other things you need to do. This is not your full time job. This is not my full time job. I do want to talk about your brand new venture before we enjoy 101, which I love, which is why I'm involved in it too. Tell us more about that and how people can get involved in that. It's a wellness platform, because I kind of got hooked lately. I'd been an exercise or just like you and eating right, but I wasn't feeling my best. And I thought, I wonder why? Like, I'm trying everything, but I don't think I'm feeling right. So I started doing some breath work, which I initially thought was just kind of woo-woo and silly and found it to be transformative. And I started meditating too. And I found that to be like a settling of all the things that were corining through my mind. And so people understand there. You're also a traditionally religious person. So this is not at odds with your Christian faith. This is not at odds at all. Right. Right. At all. So I think what this means is like this can be a place where people go who want another kind of settling. They want to feel calm and they want to have clarity. So on this on this platform, you can learn to do all of those things that we just described. And it can give you a sense of like clarity and energy is what I got from it. So I felt better and I was like, so I was doing it at dinner parties. I'm like, lay down. Try this breathing thing and people are like, wait, what? We're trying to, we want to eat the chicken. I go, let's try this first. So we, they did the the breath work. They did all the different things and felt different. I felt completely transformed from doing it. So I said, let me, let me put all these things on an app, motivational speeches, courses, you know, prayers, meditation, movement. So all that's on the app. We're also doing a bunch of retreats and we have all kinds of stuff. So that was your first retreat. Yeah. It was unbelievable. You're, I mean, Arthur was, well, I said, we peaked really early in that retreat. You were the first speaker. I'm like, never do that again. Never have Arthur speak first. Have him bring it home. But those kinds of things are, and that's, that's my new love. So you can sign up to joy 101. It's a platform. It's an app. It's an experience and it's all the things. And we have great people like you who are on our advisory board, Maria Schreiber's on it, Joanna Gaines is on it. Stephanie rule. Stephanie, we have all kinds of really great people. Yeah. That's terrific. It's an amazing resource. I strongly recommended everybody. How much of your time is that taking a lot? That's mostly what you're doing. I didn't know starting a business was so hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know. It's like, wow. So I'm sprinting through that. But I'm also realizing like when your time is controlled by yourself, it's a different. There's more of it. Yeah. I just feel like there's more of it. I don't know why it just feels like making choices. So I get to decide. Yeah. And you wrote a big best selling book that came out in September. There's been real wall that people need to read. That's going to go on the show notes. Everybody. Make sure you get that. And you're still doing TV. Still doing TV. Yeah. I'm doing the Macy's Thanksgiving Day for eight, which was phenomenal. Do the Olympics. I'm going to do the Super Bowl like the good stuff. You know, you get to do the good stuff. Still pretty busy. It's still pretty busy. You're just not doing day after day after day after day. And the reason is because you started to manage your career as opposed to letting your career manage you. Is that less than nine? Well, I guess that's less than eight. That's less than eight. Can we go through the eight chapters of the book of Hoda? Yes. I'm ready. Chapter one. There are things in your life that you don't choose that you don't like. What you have a choice over is how you frame them. Do you frame it as just a tragedy? Or do you frame it? Do you frame it as an adventure? As an opportunity for something new? That's your choice. That's that's that's chapter one. After two is what you learned from your father. You have constraints. People put barriers in your way. You can accept those constraints or you can actually see them as an opportunity for you to pivot to something that's actually better. Turn your constraints into decisions. Thanks to dad. Thanks to that. Chapter three. You have a choice to give up or you can persist. And the truth of the matter is that persistence itself actually creates its own destiny. 27 tries. Chapter four. You got to keep learning because the mindset of the student is actually what creates success as well. If you're a learner, you will become more successful. You're not a given product on the contrary. You're a work in progress. You're clay to be molded. But you have to have the humility to continue to be a student all throughout your life. Chapter five is you need to connect with other people. You need other people. But there's only one point of connection that you have with other people and it's not your greatest strength. It's actually the weakness that you share. It's the sacrifice that you make. It's the suffering that is actually part of life that connects you to other people and bonds you to them and love and the connection that you need. Your suffering is your strength. Next is that you can choose love or you can choose pure specialness in the world's eyes. Choose love. The seventh is actually, you know, we got mom, we got dad, but we got hope as a theological virtue, but also as your daughter. Sometimes you just got to choose a new tree. And last but not least, if you're going to choose a new tree, it means that you're managing your own life and you're managing your own career. And the worst thing that you can do is to be carried along by your own success because that means that your career and your life are managing you. And that's not to be fully alive. Dig in and manage it yourself. Take the wheel because you're in charge. After eight. The finale. I love this. We're not at the finale yet because there's so much more. There's so many more big adventures ahead. And I'm so delighted to be to help people learn from you, to be the tour guide in this and to help people understand that what you do is not just the product of what people see on television is the it's the product of a life well lived. And that's what people can learn from. That's what's been enriching to me. And I think to our audience on office hours today. Thank you. Thank you for thank you for joining me here today. And thanks to all of you for joining me on office hours. As always, you've got something you want to feed back on office hours at Arthur Brooks dot com or any place where you leave comments, we read them. Follow us on socials. Do all the things that people do. Do like and subscribe because the algorithmic gods will then smile on us. And of course, that makes us all very happy. I hope that you'll take these ideas to heart and live your own best life because remember that you are writing a book that is your life in the very first page of that wonderful book is today. Do you know what's going to come in the chapters that come after you have a lot of control in that and I hope that today is giving you some ideas on how to write that beautiful book. That is the book of your life. Have a wonderful week. See you next week.