What's up, guys? Welcome back to Build, and today I want to talk about how to leave without burning a bridge. So, I want to start by saying what this episode is not about, because I think it's clear. I want to be really clear about that to start. This is not about how you have to be loyal to companies, just because I'm a founder. It's not what this is about. This is also not about staying somewhere that you've outgrown, because again, I do not think retaining people when they want to go somewhere else is a good thing. It is also not about protecting founders at the expense of employees. Again, I don't agree with that. But it's also not about employees at the expense of founders, right? Don't agree with that either. It is actually about something so much more simple and so much more personal, which is how you leave and what that choice when you leave a company, you leave a business, you leave a relationship or relationships, what it costs you and what it does and it compounds over time. So if you work inside a company, if you run a company, understanding the impact of an exit and the way in which somebody exits and how it determines the quality of doors that open next. I think a lot of people underestimate how much leverage they leave when they walk away because of the way they do it. And this is really top of mind for me because as we have been growing acquisition.com, you know, something that inevitably comes with that is, you know, when you're hiring, I think this last quarter we hired 41 people. There's a lot of people that, you know, either don't work out or a lot of people that don't want to stay on for the next part of the ride. It's like, hey, this roller coaster is going to keep going. And they're like, yeah, I think I got what I wanted and I want to go. And, you know, it's always been hard for me because I think I am just inherently a very long term minded person. So like I'm the kind of person who, one, I think I'm super loyal, probably to a fault, like not in a good way, like I've been loyal to the wrong people before. But two, I can see how somebody's future can pan out in the company. And I'm like, God, what the fuck? Like if you just hung around this much longer, if you'd done this, have you done that, right? And what I've noticed, especially amongst young people, people that are younger in terms of their career, they have less experience, is like the lack of long-term thinking. And so one thing that I tell my employees who are, you know, in their early 20s, mid-20s, I'm like, listen, being patient is a freaking competitive advantage. Because when people are not patient, that is when I would say these kind of things hit them the hardest. And so in the last few weeks, I've had a couple people that are young in their 20s that we've parted ways with in the company and I have just seen it done so fucking wrong. And ironically, I've had a few done really, really, really well. Like I had two people on a team that worked more closely with me that had, you know, reasons for leaving that I felt like were incredibly reasonable. It's like, hey, I want to, I have a changing career I want to make. It's like, great. Let me help support you. Like, let's do this. You know, the other one is like, I want to be with my family and they live in this other area. Great. Understand that that makes sense. And we had honest conversations and it was like a really great exit for both of those people. And it actually was like a great experience. I have nothing but great feelings towards them. I still talk to both of them and it was really easy. Right. But then I had this other, you know, I had actually two other people who decided that they wanted to leave after those two. And the way in which it was done was just like just the wrong way. And I know it's because they lack experience and they're young and it's short-term thinking. But I keep thinking to myself, I'm like, I don't care. Like, it's like really hard for me, guys. It's so hard. I'm like, I don't care that I'm your boss. I don't care that you work in my fucking company. Like, this is the wrong way to fucking do this. Like, learn something from this that will serve you the rest of your career, not something that will bite you in your ass the rest of your career. And so I kind of want to walk through that for you guys because I think, one, when you hire people that are younger, you need to understand that you are teaching them. And so teaching them how to leave gracefully is a skill. Also teaching people when it's the right choice to leave versus stay is also a skill. And I think a lot of times people don't know how to communicate with others because maybe they don't know what their goals are. Maybe they don't know how to communicate or maybe, you know what, you don't know. Let this podcast serve as something for you. I have worked with hundreds and hundreds of people that are young in their 20s. I've seen the ones that leave well, that don't leave well, and the ones that should have stayed longer to get what they wanted versus the ones that jump ship too soon Because when you young is I think you most susceptible to short gratification and that when it is like the most advantageous to not be So I kind of want to start off by just saying leaving a company is not betrayal. I know that a lot of people are very violent about this and they're like disgusted by people leaving their companies. I am not. I think that people leave because they change their mind, because their role changes, because the company has changed. It might not fit their life anymore. Maybe their life changes and no longer the role changes. maybe the fit changes I think that's normal and that's healthy I don't consider that a failure I think that early in my career I might have and I would be more defensive and like fuck these people they don't want to work in my company fuck them blah blah blah like I genuinely don't feel that way anymore I don't want anybody working at my company who doesn't want to be there who has a different calling who wants to be somewhere else I just don't and you know what I don't need it because I have tons of people who want to work here so it's like it just doesn't matter and so what I've learned over time and what I want to communicate here is that what actually damages trust, in my opinion, is not leaving. It is lying on the way out. Now, what do I mean by lying? It is allowing your monkey brain to rewrite history, to turn people into villains, to oversimplify the story so that you can take credit when you walk into the next room. And I think that this applies equally to employees and to founders because you can leave a company, you can sell a company, and you can do the same thing, right? And I think there's consequences to both of these things. And it's something that I think a lot of people don't talk about, probably because it's a sensitive topic to say like, hey, you shouldn't lie about these things. But I think it's true. Now, why do people lie on the way out? Say they're leaving a company. Why is it that they lie? I don't think people lie because they're bad people. I think that people lie because telling the full truth would force them to be incredibly uncomfortable with themselves. It's discomfort like, you know what? I did a role and I didn't do it well. I outgrew this before I was ready to admit it. I made a choice in my job and it didn't turn out the way I hoped. So instead of sitting with that discomfort and tolerating that discomfort, people tell themselves a story that protects their ego. I think that oftentimes, you know, employees do it to justify their leaving, right? And to make it sound like they are the hero or they were wronged and the company was bad, right? And it protects their ego from whatever it is that they have to confront. On the other side, I think founders do it to justify firing or losing someone. It's like, well, they were horrible, they sucked anyways, this and that, right? It's different roles, but it's the same instinct. And like most exit lies are not malicious. They are like a form of self-soothing. It's like, you're just trying to like, why couldn't we all just be like, I'm sad and this sucks. Like, but we don't want to say that. And so instead we lie to ourselves to feel better about it. Whether it's because we don't want to confront the fact that there was something that we managed a person wrong, that there was the wrong environment, that we hired the wrong person, or because if you're an employee, You don't want to say, like, I messed up. I wasn't the right fit. Like, I think that I was going to get fired and I just wanted to leave ahead. Like, whatever it is, right? We lie to protect ourselves. Now, this is the part that most people miss. When you leave on a false premise, you do not just lie once. You create a reputation that you now have to maintain. So, for example, if you leave saying that you were held back, you now have to prove that you weren't. If you fire somebody saying they weren't capable, you now have to explain why you hired them. A reputation built on a false premise is incredibly fragile, and it requires this constant maintenance where you have to go back and make sure that all your little white lies are tying together. And eventually, the thing is, is that the inconsistency surface. People talk, industries are smaller than they look, and character gets evaluated across all the rooms that you are not in. and so when you lie on the way out you are borrowing credibility from your future and eventually the bill comes due but here's the thing in the short term it doesn't seem that way because in the short term for example if you're an employee and you leave and you lie about why you left right and you make up some reasoning and make it sound like you did this crazy amazing job and you're responsible for this crazy amazing thing in the company eventually somebody's going to go back to that founder right which might be me or might be somebody else and i'm just using this as an example. They're going to say, hey, did this person do this? And you're going to be like, no, why? You're just going to answer truthfully. And then they're going to be like, well, that's weird. They told me that they did this and they were actually working with somebody who doing this and they doing this And you like oh well shit I don know You know ask them Lies are hard to maintain Now the other goes for the opposite way which is like if you fire somebody and then other people want to hire them and you say oh my God they a piece of shit Don't hire them. They're terrible. They did those awful things. And then somebody hires them. They're like, they're amazing. They kill it for them. Well, then they're going to be like, oh, so you were just trying to sabotage their future because for whatever reason, you didn't want us to win. So it goes both ways. and I just find the entire situation to be very icky. And so I think that's the right word for it is icky. And so something that I have talked to a lot of people on my team that I'm close to is like how to educate people on leaving the right way, which is like understanding the agreements that are made on the way out, understanding how you're going to talk about each other, agreeing to what you're going to say about each other, having those conversations. It's kind of like if you break up with somebody and it's like, okay, it just wasn't working out for us. And it's like, okay, are we both going to just go talk shit to people about each other? or we're just going to both agree to only say good things about each other and just move on with our lives? I think the latter is a lot easier. So in my opinion, what leaving in a clean-cut manner looks like, or exiting somebody in a clean-cut manner looks like, is being honest, right? It's telling the truth without having to make yourself the hero. So for example, if you are leaving a company because of a choice, you can just say this wasn't the right fit for me, without turning that your boss or that company into the problem. The second piece is you want to separate your facts from the feelings. Like your feelings are very real, but that doesn't make them a fact, right? So just because you felt wronged by the fact that maybe you were getting asked more of in a role doesn't mean it is wrong because if a company grows, your role has to grow with it, right? And so your feelings are real, but not necessarily facts. The third is you don't want to rewrite history to justify the exit, okay? if you have to fire somebody, just tell people to whatever degree you can the honest truth about why. If you leave a company and you didn't accomplish much and you weren't there that long, just be honest about it and say what you did do rather than elating the truth about what you didn't do, right? In either instance, the person or the company does not need to be evil for this to occur. And I think the last piece is that you speak directly to the other party involved before speaking publicly. You know, if you wouldn't say it to the people that were involved in the situation, to the company, to the person, to your peers, to your colleagues, then you probably shouldn't be saying it at all. So if you were to go on your team meeting and say, I fired this person because they were terrible and did these things, then don't say it to people behind their back, to other people when they ask. Then same for an employee. If you would not go on a meeting and say, you know, I was responsible for 200 billion views for Alex Formosie, if you wouldn't say that to the team, then don't say it to the public or to somebody else you're trying to get hired by. Really, if you guys are grasping the underlying piece of this, it's that be honest, be fucking honest, tell the truth. I am so sick of people not telling the truth. And I will say, like, I was a little triggered before making this podcast, not emotionally, but like, I would say cognitively, I am mad for people. For example, I can't tell you how many people have left my company, Gym Launch, or been fired, and then they say that they're responsible for $50 million in sales. I cannot tell you how many people have left my company, Acquisition.com, or been fired and said that they're responsible for Leila Hermozzi's brand, Alex Hermozzi's brand, blah, blah, blah. And guess what? If any of these people were responsible, which by the way, I didn't know 50 people could be responsible for these things, they would have what they say that they built. And it's so hard for me to see because I see it as a exchange. you're exchanging a short-term feel-good, save face, etc. For long-term, your career will never be as big as you want it to be because you didn't tell the fucking truth. And if people tell the truth, you know what I do? When somebody leaves my company, I don't care how much affinity I had towards that person. If they tell the truth, I will like their post, I will comment, I will wish them the best. If somebody exaggerates, if somebody deminimizes, if somebody is adversarial, you will not see me comment on their post. Why? Because I do not endorse lying Now I not going to tear somebody down I not going to say anything bad But like it not fair to the people in the team who are actually responsible for the thing You know recently I had somebody one of these people who left and they claimed that they had done a lot of things for the company. And I was like, oh, gosh, you know, just being a goof. And like, I genuinely don't have any hard feelings. I'm just like, fuck, you shouldn't do that to yourself. Like, you're really shooting yourself in the fucking foot there. Because in all honesty, like the relationship is probably worth more than saying a lie on social media, because guess who dms me everybody that you're trying to work with and then i was like whatever i don't say anything about this i don't share it with my company nothing i had people from my company come to me and they said hey did you see this i said yeah what's up and they said we don't want to talk to them anymore i said why is that they said well they took credit for our work that we did we're not out there on social media claiming things that we did that we didn't do we're doing the things and we're not even taking credit but it's messed up that they did and so i say all this because it pains me to see people who stay somewhere, whether it be at my company or I was texting with a friend yesterday, we were talking about this together, or stay at a friend's company for years or even just a short couple months. And then they leave and they think that, okay, it's a reputable company. I'm going to go use their brand. I'm going to go tell people that I worked with them and this is going to be what I'm going to get from this. But you lose the relationship. You lose the trust. You lose the credibility. And you lose long term the fact that those people aren't going to endorse you. I publicly endorse the people who have truly helped grow my companies. People have truly helped grow my brands. And I will always do that. There's a reason that I do that. Not because I like them more than other people, but because I like advocating for the truth more than anything. And I believe that truth, above all else, I think that is my number one value is honesty. Like, I don't believe that you owe a company your life. I do believe that you owe your future the truth. And so that holds very strong to me. and it just sucks to see people do this because when people do this in my company, I'm like, Jesus, like, I wish that I could explain to you how much you're shooting yourself in the foot with your future, not only for the relationships that you've tarnished, but the connections, the encouragement, the support that you're not going to get from all these relationships going forward. And the fact that you now have to maintain a lie for the rest of your career, that other people, at some point, it's going to come out that it wasn't true. The people who I've seen go and succeed the most are the people who are honest, even if it feels like it's not as cool or as big or as awesome to say what you did. Because the reality is, is that nobody, no one person is responsible for anything in a company, guys. Not even me, not even Alex. It is a giant team effort to accomplish anything. And so, you know, there's a reason I have a hard time taking credibility for things because I'm like, wow, I did this with hundreds of people. You know, who takes credit for these things? It's probably where I'm worse at doing. Like if I took more credit, I'd probably have a bigger social media following. But I don't because it feels wrong to me because I'm like, this was a team effort. So anyways, I say all this to say, I wish I could say this to some people to probably, there's probably at least a good 50 people I wish I could say this to, since I've hired thousands of people at this point in my career. You can't let your ego get in the way of these things and you have to think long-term versus short-term. And I think that if you see the people who go on to be most successful in life, I have noticed this correlation with their ability to delay short-term gratification around these things and focus on the long-term. And it just always, always, always pays off. So that being said, I don't know if it's politically correct to say don't be a D-bag on the way out, but I think that it's a smart move. I think it's a smart move to say don't do that on the way out. Your future self will thank you for it. And so will your conscience. And so if you are running a company, try to educate your team on this. Try to teach people how to leave gracefully. Try to tell people what you will do to support them if they leave gracefully. Because it just causes trauma, unnecessarily turmoil with people that are still on the team, etc. When people that leave, leave in that manner. And I don't think it serves them in the long term either at all. And if our goal as leaders is to help people become better versions of themselves, part of that means helping them be better versions when they're not with you too.
