Stop Chasing, Start Choosing: How to Create Demand That Lasts from Daniel Priestley

There's a magical thing called with or without you energy. With or without you energy is I'm going to be fine with or without you. Got it. And business owners that can get themselves into a place with with or without you energy, they tend to do well. The digital world that's full of abundance, there is a hyper reaction to things that people can't have. Be sold out on business. Yes. Let people miss out. All right, Daniel. I always start the podcast with, what's your definition of success? Isn't that something that changes over time? Uh... It can. It definitely changes over time. I was a very young guy and I saw you, uh, in my hometown, uh, in the Suntrain Coast and you had a yellow Ferrari. And at that point, uh, that was my definition of success. But a yellow Ferrari. I remember that one. It was an F35. 3-5-fault-miller-one. F1-new. That was a... Yeah. Pop out, roof. Uh-huh. So that was the... That was at one point the definition of success. Dang dude, you're trying to make you feel old over here. Hey, that's... Hey, you should claim that. That was a great car. Yeah, it was. Of course. And yeah, obviously. Look, today I got three beautiful kids and successes taking them as cool in the morning. Uh, most mornings and, uh, and having a very happy home and having good food in the fridge and, uh, having great activities and raising them, uh, in a sensible way in a crazy world. Yeah, sensible way in a crazy world. How did the definition shift for you? How did success sort of shift over time? Uh, so for me, uh, the big milestones, obviously, you know, you get married, you have kids, all of those things. You become a complete... Well, for me, I became a completely different person in each, uh, chapter. You know, you can't imagine what it's like to love someone more than yourself and then you meet your wife and then you can't imagine what it would be like to even go deeper than that and you have your kids and, you know, all of that. So kind of like you... It's kind of like you're living in this... in this house and then suddenly you open up a door and discover there's this whole other side of the house... There's this whole other section of the house in there. Yeah. I think it's a wonderful thing how we as humans get to grow through our lifetime. It's really wonderful how we get to do that. But to do it consciously is sort of a big challenge in this day and age to consciously think about your growth and plan your growth and plan that sort of thing. Probably never had to be more aware of it because there's so many distractions. We live in this world where, you know, the average person in two weeks scrolls the height of TikTok. Uh, sorry, the height of the Eiffel Tower on TikTok. With their thumb, you know, so like... Is that the thing? That's the thing. Holy hey. So, um, yeah, kids here on TikTok, uh, the height of the Eiffel Tower every two weeks, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, with their thumb. 12. That is insane. Yeah, that is insane to think it's that way. And to think one day, you know, we probably won't even have phones. We'll have earpieces or glasses or... I know I've got the metter glasses and, you know, I get on the phone with people and I say, oh, here's where I am. And they're seeing exactly where I am and all that. So, you know, stuff, the world is changing fast. Marketing, let's go to marketing. Sure, a little bit. The way of the world of marketing has shifted and it shifts every week. Basically, the algorithms change and that. But there's some key principles that I think stay the same. And one of them is about... And you use the word over-subscribed. Maybe explain that concept. People first, then we'll dive into it. So, if you go to economics class 101, first lesson, first day, they're going to talk about demand and supply tension. And they're going to say, this really simple idea, which is that if demand is high and supplies low, there's room for profit in there. And if supply is high and demand is low, then you're probably going to make losses. And they often use the example of bananas. If you've got 100 bananas and only 10 people want bananas, you're going to sell them cheap. And if you've got 100 bananas and 1,000 people want bananas, you're going to put the prices up. We, as entrepreneurs, we forget this lesson. We forget that demand and supply tension is everything. We think that we have to do all of these things to be a successful business. But ultimately, all of it's for nothing if you don't maintain some demand and supply tension. And a great example of this would be airlines. So, an airline is probably one of the most valuable businesses on the planet to society. It's probably the one of the most complex, capital intensive, risky businesses. There's a million things that have to go perfectly every single day. And yet, their margins are 7%. So, they don't get great margins. And they do everything right. And then you get a weird business like Rolex. And Rolex has a product that hasn't really changed much in 50 years. It's not something people particularly need. If they don't, you can live without a Rolex. It doesn't particularly open up humanity to a whole different range of experiences. They don't do great customer service. If you Rolex needs fixing, they'll take it, tell you when it's ready, three months later. And yet, they make 70% margins. But they maintain demand and supply tension. Yeah. So, this is one of the key ideas that I try and get into entrepreneur's minds around their marketing. The purpose of the marketing is to create demand and supply tension. And that's strategically what they're trying to do. I love, you know, when I look at over subscribed, they almost always go back to jobs. Steve Jobs, when he... The guy was an absolute genius at creating a demand six months before they're even going to give you the products. Oh, yeah. And people wouldn't... I don't think people today that buy an iPhone understand that people would cue around the blocks for this. Two days would line up. It's like lining up for concert tickets. It was. Yeah. Getting the iPad first, getting the phone first, he knew that he had to create that little bit of that moment, that tension. He knew that that was everything. Yeah. That was so important. So, let's learn the lessons right there. Okay. Firstly, flip it on its head. Don't launch a product and then start marketing. Oh, start marketing it. Like the movie business is probably one of the greatest examples of creating a demand before it comes out. Before it comes out. Tom Cruise Maverick. COVID hit, they decide, let's not put it out. And then we've got another two years of... To ramshin... To ramshin the excitement and that whole thing. How do we get people to shift their thinking to a launch mode rather than a... Put it out there and then start marketing. Okay. So mindset number one is stopping supply side focused all the time. Most entrepreneurs are just always thinking they're supply. So just accept the fact that your job as an entrepreneur is to be manufacturing demand for what you do. No one will do that for you. You can't really outsource it easily. You as the entrepreneur need to be hands on with this. If someone could easily do this for you, they'd be doing it for themselves. Right. So that's an important one to keep in mind. The how to do it is things like waiting lists, discussion groups, pre-registrations of interest, all of those sorts of things. I'll give you some real examples. So last year we launched a new software business. And rather than writing any code or doing any work on the product, we just simply launched a waiting list and said, we're going to be launching software. It does this. Here's what it's up to. If you're interested in that, join the waiting list. So within a couple of days, we had I think about 750 people on the waiting list. To join you had to say what you wanted to use it for, what outcomes you were looking for, what price you were willing to pay, all of those questions got answered. And we even had a question there, which is, would you like to see the Angel Investor presentation? And about 130 people said, I want to see the Angel Investor presentation. So a couple of weeks later, we ran the Angel Investor presentation with certified angels. We had all the data to show exactly what the software would do, what outcomes people wanted, and how much they were willing to pay. And then we basically said, we're going to just go into a very small angel round. Now we haven't done any lines of code. We haven't done any development on the UX or the UI or any of that sort of stuff. It was an idea. And a few weeks later, we've raised the money to get it launched. We've got a growth. By that stage, we had 1500 plus people on the waiting list. So by the time we launch, we've got all these people on the waiting list. We've got Angel Investors who are saying, I want to get in on this Angel Investor, we'd drawn a line in that. So we'd maintain demand and supply tension. And then we had a very successful launch with that software product. The woods sold out. Most business owners would say they got a restaurant. That's squeezed another chair. Oh, you've got another customer, rather than saying, I'm sold out. How do we teach people that sold out is actually a good thing? So there's a word that I like to use called official capacity. An official capacity is the capacity your business has to leave people feeling delighted. So for example, if you're a restaurant, let's say you've got 50 tables and chairs in there. At that particular moment, you've got the capacity to have 50 people who are happy that they came to your restaurant that night. You start squeezing tables and chairs in. That capacity actually goes down, not up. So you think, oh, I know what I'll do. I'll squeeze 10 tables and now I've got a capacity of 60. You don't have a capacity of 60. If you're measuring people who feel delighted that they made the choice to deal with your business. So your capacity to delight people dropped. What we look for is protecting the experience, protecting the capacity of your business. And being just owning it and saying, my business has the capacity to look after this number of people. Now, the reason I say official capacity is because you should tell people, you should actually say the official capacity of our restaurant is 50 tables. I know you want to come in. I'm really, really sorry. We're full. We'd love to have you in 10 days time when we're not full. Let's book you in and we'll have a, you will experience what they're experiencing, which is a great night out. But our, our, we protect our customers' ability to have a great experience. Let's go into the planning of a launch marketing strategy. You just gave us an example of yours, but you've been doing it a long time. So it came second nature to you. Let's say I am launching a new product or a new programmer, a new service or something. How do I go T minus and start? A great act at the beginning. Great question. So there's going to be a few phases. There's the planning phase. During the planning phase, you're going to map out your whole campaign. And you're going to craft your official capacity. And you're going to work out how many people do we need to get engaged in this in order for our official capacity to definitely sell out. So let's say your business can take on 22 clients. You say, okay, roughly speaking, we close one in 50, people who come through as a lead. So we're going to need about 1100 people engaged in there. So you're going to have to basically, that's the point where you hit demand and supply tension. That's where you go, okay, we've got 20 spots available. We've got 1,000 people on the list, wanting those 20 spots. It's a 50 to 1 ratio. That means there's definitely going to be a moment where people miss out. So we've got a plan by knowing our numbers right in the beginning. That's the beginning. Okay. Next phase is called the build up. When the build up is essentially, we're going to campaign for signals not sales. So rather than signals not sales, okay? So rather, yeah, to do that one. So rather than saying there's something for you to buy, there's not something for you to buy, there's something you can signal interest in. So let's go back to the Ferrari dealership. So you can't walk into a Ferrari dealership and say, I'll have that one. So I'm sorry, that's not that's not for sale. You can signal your interest in that one. You can actually say, I would like on when one becomes available. So they will get you to join a waiting list. They will get you to fill in an application or a registration. So that's called signal collection not sales. If we take the most famous music festival in the UK, it's called Glastonbury. You can't buy ticket. You can only register for a ticket. So for 364 days of the year, you can add your name to the registration list. And then when they get about 750,000 people on that registration list, on one day of the year, they make 136,000 tickets available. And a lot of people sadly miss out, but they're not selling their signal collecting. So on the build up phase, we're just marketing for signals not sales. We're not actually trying to get people to buy anything. We're just getting signals for the interest in buying something. Discussion group, they could join a discussion group about it. They could fill in a wait list. They could join a, they could fill in an online assessment or a scorecard that says they need it, but can't have it. So that's online assessment selling. So these are all things that you can get people to do as a strong signal of interest. Joining a webinar would be, you know, that they download an ebook. Exactly. Any way that says I'm interested in that. I'm interested in something I can't yet have. So this is where we signal build. And that can't yet have is massively important. Most people like, well, if I've got them, why don't I just sell? That's it. And most people profitable, no. So we want the signal collection and we want the build up phase. What we're trying to do is we're trying to build up to that point where the demand and supply tension is unbearable. There's now a thousand people who want 20 things, something like that. So at this point, we now need to create transparency. Transparency is the demand and supply transparency. It becomes apparent that there's plenty of people who want a limited number of things. So this is, how do you do that in a way that's not, you know, Ethic, well, how do you do it ethically? So there's a couple of ways. On social media, there's a lot of transparency. So for example, if you saw a business coach who has 19,000 followers and everything they post is thousands of people engaging and you know they can only work with 20 customers, you would go, okay, that's a business coach that transparently is in demand. I once saw a business coach step up on stage in front of a room full of about 300 CEOs. And at the end of the presentation said, if you're interested in working with me, here's a QR code, fill in the application and I'll let you know exactly how that works. And about half the room pulled out their phone and took a photo of the QR code. Now the coach had said, I can only work with 12 clients here. And now there's 150 people in an audience with their phone out on the QR code. That was a moment of transparency. That was a transparency of demand and supply tension. So now what you can do if people have been signaling using an online form is just simply tell people. And be honest about it because you've got to be an ethical business person. So you say we've had 435 people who have registered. This experience is for 45 people. Unfortunately, some people are going to miss out. And don't ever lie about that because you will look like you've got egg on your face if you then don't sell out if it doesn't go. But you can actually just tell people. You can just say, hey, look, some good news and bad news. It's a really popular launch. It's a really exciting time for us as a business because so many people, this many people have registered. But we do only have to have this many people who can come in on the next intake or whatever it is. So in some way you need to be able to create a moment of transparency of demand and supply tension. And it can be subtle. And it can totally, there's a dozen ways to do it very ethically. Yeah, I feel it's like, okay, we're telling you in advance if some of you aren't going to get into this thing, so the thing is it's that way. And it's like, again, there's a nature of business people to fight that. How, when you're coaching something through that fight, how do you get them to realize just how important it is to stick to your guns and not go, well, we got a thousand. Why don't we just sell a thousand of them? You know? Oh, yeah. Well, the magic is in designing the year that they want, that they really want. Because I often start with the idea with business owners. I often start with how many customers would you need in order to have a really great year? For you to look back on this year and say, this was great. We grew, we were profitable. What's the number? So we might do that. Essentially, we start with that. The other thing we can do is add a later date we can expand capacity. So the official capacity is not set in stone forever. Depending on what kind of business it might be, we might do a launch special, that is for the first 300 customers. And then once those customers are onboarded, we might do the next campaign, which could be for 1500 customers. So when I do software, obviously software is the type of product that as many people as you want, can sign up. But we always have a beta group. The beta group are our first 300 testers and the first 300 people. And we're going to give them special support and contact. But we can only do that for 300 people. So anyone beyond the 300 misses out. But they will get to see what's happened with the 300. They'll actually, because we then share the results of those 300. And then more people come to the next. Oh, next bit. Now you keep using a word that's one of my favorite marketing words only. And I think a lot of people miss out on the fact that, well, I need two customers a week. You can only accept two new customers a week. It's a great reframe. I love it. There's a magical thing called with or without you energy. With or without you energy is, I'm going to be fine with or without you. Got it. And that's, and business owners that can get themselves into a place with or without you energy, they tend to do well. Fantastic. So we've done the planning. We've got the signals. Yeah. So we get transparent moment of transparency. And then the release. So the release is you give people a moment to act. This way, say, tickets go live or you can now apply. Count down to that. Do you just do it? Well, if like, for example, Glastonbury says tickets go on sale at 5am on Monday morning. People wake up early. They sit in alarm. They hover their finger over the button. And they say, I know I've done it on different things. It's super. I've literally had two of my assistants sitting there red-headed by thing. Yeah. There's all of us are on different computers making sure we get that those Disney tickets there was. Yeah, when it's for your kids, trust me. You've got everybody involved to try and get that thing at, yeah, craziness of the world. So we go live. We do that. That's not the end of it though. Well, you know, with many campaign, the perfect result is that all goes smoothly and everything goes off without a hitch. Nine times out of 10, that doesn't happen. What most of the happen is you get a great result but you don't complete everything. So what's nice is that you've got the Signaled Interest list. And then you can elegantly go back to the list and say, Hey, Brad, I noticed that you've got that you signaled that you're interested. I've actually got most of those things that are available have gone. But I do have a couple of available. And we wanted to reach out to you first as someone who we know would make a great fit for this product. I just wanted to give you the opportunity. You may not have seen the live product can give you an opportunity if you'd like to come through or not. So you can do some follow-up sales. That's a great way to do one-on-one. And that way, you know, a nice result might be, how we said that we had 90 spots available. We had 71 people have already selected that they want to go ahead. We've got a few spots available. Do you want one of them? And you can also, once again, you can signal demand and supply tension. You can say we've got 18 spots left. But we do have about 1,000 people on the waiting list or 1,000 people had signaled interest. So I'm just going to go through it. And it's totally fine with the without you energy. But it's totally fine if you want to go ahead or not. But we do have some spots available. So a little bit of sales follow-up at that point. Typically, complete the campaign. Put the icing on the cake. Marketing planning wise, my challenge when I teach this to people is that it's changing from you've got to be marketing all day, all day, all day, all day, all day. To no, you don't need to market all year round. You might need to market three times a year or twice a year or whatever it is to become full or even once a year. Yeah. I, with my business coaches, I tell them, listen, I want you to do marketing twice a year and fill yourself up. And then you don't need to, you don't need that tension of doing marketing for the next. Yes, you're going to do your social proof marketing and keep the social media running and keep the content, keep that, keep person of influence as you teach going. But your real marketing for customers doesn't have to be 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Especially for a business like coaching. You know, a lot of the best coaches, I don't have huge capacity. They might, like, what do you, what would you say is that a typical coach is making great money. How many clients can they juggle at any time? 20 is a big number. 20 is a big number, right? So it's like I was thinking somewhere between 10 and 20. So realistically, if you did the right speaking engagement in first half of the year and the right speaking engagement in the second half of the year, you're not going to be able to take on any additional clients. Correct. Now you, you could literally be in front of a couple of hundred people twice a year. And, but even like the clothing business has changed, selling in drops rather than, you know, you produce a thousand of that sweatshirt, that's it. That's it. Be sold out on things. Let people miss out. Yeah. People want what they can't have. In the digital world that's free, that's full of abundance, there is a hyper reaction to things that people can't have. It's so rare in today's world for something to exist that you can't get hold of. We see it now with burger chains. They bring a certain burger back for one month and then it's gone. And that's it. And you're like, but I want that burger again. Well, you'll have to wait till next time we bring that burger back out. I think there's a lot of businesses starting to get the understanding of sold out. Now what you can do with a bigger business is you can have your always available range and then you can sit drops on top. So you can have special offers and special things. We call these spotlight campaigns. So it just puts a spotlight on the business. You can buy, let's say like a Ralph Lauren, you know, you can buy the Ralph Lauren shirts any day of the week, you can get the standard line of Ralph Lauren, but there's certain things like this jacket or this, you know, coat or whatever. There's certain things that happen that do sell out. And that creates that same energy for the business while also having a day-to-day line that you can sell. It's crazy that we still are in a world where it's tell as much as you can. You'd get this. I asked the question to business people all the time. How many customers, like if they're doing a marketing plan, how many new customers do you want that you can handle and sustain on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? If we know how many customers you need to buy, we also know how many conversations you need to create. It can work backwards from there. The other thing that's a real head flip for a lot of business owners is that their business would make more money with less customers. So we did some research into audiences and buying power within the audience. And essentially to oversimplify it, if you imagine like a your audience, the top 1% of people in your audience have 15% of the spending power. The next 9% have 45% of the spending power, which means 60% of the available budget is just 10% of the people. And then the remaining 90% of people have 40% of the budget. Where most entrepreneurs and business owners make a big mistake is they go for the noisiest largest group of people who have the least money to spend, rather than having systems and processes for identifying the Cinderella in the ball. That one in a hundred who is actually got 15% of the budget. Brings me to the question, pricing. Why does everyone do cheap? I mean, it annoys me that people go for the, you know, they think they've got to be cheaper than the others. Why does that happen and then how do we get to the other side? Yeah, I think it happens by default. It's kind of like why do everyone work on walk on the earth because that's kind of where gravity, gravity moves you there. And it takes a bit of planning to get off the earth, you know, it takes a bit of planning to get above the clouds, but it can be done. So, you know, so it's beating market forces. You have to beat market forces. Market forces want price at zero. You know, that's where markets want you to price yourself at nothing. So ultimately, you have to beat the market forces through planning. The thing to know is that there are going back to that audience size, we call those three audiences, the mass market, the niche market or niche market depending on which side of the pond and the luxury market. So the luxury market responds to pedigree, exclusivity and experience. And then the sky's the limit. But it's very hard to tick those boxes. You can't just say, oh, I've got pedigree. No, you've got to win the major awards. You have to have the Emmy. You have to have the the BAFTA award. You have to have been referred to by, you know, Tatlamagazine or whatever it is. So you have to have the pedigree. And you have to be able to live up to the experience and all of that sort of stuff. So a few companies can do luxury, but one thing that all small businesses can do is niche or niche. And that is where you're looking for a particular type of person who is so interested in a thing that they would attend an event, join a discussion group, read a book, follow a guru, join and subscribe and watch videos on YouTube. They're they're actually irrational engaged in this. They're passionately engaged. I'll give you an example. There are normal gyms and then there's CrossFit gyms. CrossFit is just basically doing gyms stuff to music and faster with a group with a group. You know, but it's some reason it's 300 bucks a month, you know, to join a CrossFit gym. And all the other gyms are $33 a month. You know, and it's kind of like, why? Because they're just doing it's the same footprint. It's the same equipment. It's the same stuff. Like why is it 10 times more expensive? Because this is a group of people who want to join a group. They want to be part of a community. They want to have an ideology. They want to watch videos. They want to follow Instagram accounts. So they've figured out a niche market. A great question that all entrepreneurs, business owners should ask is who gets the most value from what I do. Now this is not what do I need to do to provide more value. It's who gets the most value from what I do. Great example. S the Paral. So S the Paral was a couples therapist. She was in Belgium, the New York. And she started to notice that most people wanted to pay about a hundred dollars for a couples therapy session. But the ultra high net worth individuals, they placed a disproportionate value on what she was doing for them. So she was doing the same couple therapy for them that she would do for anyone else. But when she would ask them, was that worth it? They would say, well, you just saved us millions and millions of dollars. Like we were about to get divorced. That was going to cost us two million in legal fees. And that was going to cost us five, 15, 20 million in capital destruction. And then they go, you know, you're you saved us from this million. So then she ended up pricing it accordingly and saying, well, I only take on 10 to 20 clients a year and it's quarter of a million per client. And she said, it's not that she does anything different. She just runs a campaign to say, I exist for this type of person. And she makes two and a half to five million a year with 10 to 20 clients doing couples therapy that other people pay a hundred bucks for. Yeah. Yeah. She's definitely at that luxury end. It's interesting. I look at for us. And there's a lot of business people out there that need coaching and need assistance. But we get we give the most value to families, you know, when it's a husband and a wife when a and they have kids. And you know, if you're a business person and you have kids, the value of a coach goes up. It doubles and triples because your value is I now get my time back. Yeah. And I can actually go to my kids game or my kids recite a lot. I'm not risking the most important thing in my life. Yeah. So it's very much a thing. So this goes to this idea of ICP ideal customer persona. Ideal customer persona is really important. It's basically who has the most to gain. One of the quick example was the health and safety guy that I worked with. And he he did health and safety and manufacturing environments. I asked him, is there any particular manufacturing environment that's particularly dangerous always lawsuits? He said, oh, yeah, this type. I went, okay, why don't you run a campaign to position yourself as the health and safety for that type? His rates went from 2 grand a day to 20 grand a day. Yeah. Just simply same stuff, same posters on the wall, same training with the team. But he made a few little adjustments to be number one for that type. And his value went through the roof, not because he changed what he did, but he changed who it was for. It's that old joke of, you know, a bottle of water is 50 cents in the in the grocery store, two dollars at the thing and seven dollars at the airport. It's same bottle of water. It's just different different people you're putting in front of an SN environment. So let's actually just then look at the we touched on being more expensive. How does one go about actually raising their prices in a normal day-to-day business? Because we've got to know how. Yeah, demand and supply tension, you need a bigger audience. So you know, it's very, very hard to like ultimately, things are priced based on demand and supply tension. The markets, there is no intrinsic value. There's no objective value. It's totally subjective and it's based purely on market forces. You know, why is a Bitcoin worth what a Bitcoin is? Because demand and supply tension says so. Why is a diamond worth what a diamond is? Demand and supply tension. The answer to everything around prices, just demand and supply tension. My prices went through the roof when I got on some big podcasts and I'd done nothing different. I just more people knew who I was. So you know, it was just one of these things of demand and supply tensions. So you've got to be in front of more people. You've got to be in front of the right people and you've got to have a way of detecting who is the person who's got the budget to go to a high price. So in the story of Cinderella, you know, he's looking for Cinderella. He's got this device, this glass slipper. I mean, if shoe fits, that's Cinderella. So you've got to figure out what's your criteria. But if someone meets those criteria, that's my Cinderella client. That's who I can charge a high price to. So a real life example. I know someone who works with families and they set up an online assessment about kids' behavior. And one of the questions they threw in there is, does your family have a nanny? And it's no nanny, part-time nanny, full-time nanny. And it was very simple. All of her top-paying clients have full-time nannies, all of them. So when people fill in the online assessment, they answer all the questions, they get a great response, they get a report. But if they tip the box that says full-time nanny, they get a phone call straight away. And guess what? Prices went up. Yeah. Wonderful thing. I always finish with this question, best advice you ever got on success. And who was it from? And why was that the best advice to you? In so many best devices along the way, I like environment dictates performance as a really good one. Which is this idea that we tend to behave in accordance with the people we spend time with, the places that we show up, the environmental cues. I do a bit of work with young men in prison, they're coming out, we go in and we talk to them before they're coming out and all of that sort of stuff. And one of the things that we know about young guys who deal drugs, for example, is they're young entrepreneurs, they're entrepreneurial people. But the only entrepreneurs in their environment are drug dealers. So when they're shopping around their network and say, hey, I want to make money and I want to do something I'm really energized for getting ahead in life, their environment channels them towards this particular opportunity. And when we have that conversation with them and say, look, if you go back to that environment, you're going to re-offend. You're going to have to get yourself around a different group of people who run legal businesses. And that is one of the biggest things that we can change within their life. If they can spend time with Landscape Gardener, they go, oh, wow, this guy's making just as much money as some dealers I know. But he's not having to go into jail. There's no going to jail for it. Yeah. So they go, oh, okay, I'll get it. I actually had a feeling of this when I saw you yesterday. We were talking about some of the things you've achieved and all of that sort of stuff. I find that often I'm the most successful entrepreneur in a room of a group of entrepreneurs, right, by revenue or by profit, number of businesses. And then I'm sitting next to you having a conversation. And immediately I can feel the energy in me rising going, okay, there's just a natural tendency to go, I can up my game a bit. I'm around someone who's doing a bigger thing. And we had Gary Vee and we're talking about that. And it was like, okay, Gary's dragging all of us to this. Yeah. Well, he's saying, I'm pretty proud of the fact I'm posting on social media once today. Gary's saying three or four times a day is normal for me. Okay. All right. You're dragging me up a gear. So environment dictates performance. Really, really good one to play with. You're on the big success podcast. Hit those show notes. 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