When Your Kid Says “I’m Boredddd!”

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Plus, a free subscription to Headspace. Because when you have support, you can show up as your best self, for the people you care for and for yourself. I'm bored. Mom, I'm so bored. Dad, there's nothing to do. So boring. Okay. You are not alone if this is so triggering, but also relatively common. And yes, our kids are bored more often than we were as kids, because their lives are actually so much more stimulating. So the situation that leads them to feel bored is just so much more common, because there's so much stuff, so much dopamine, so many activities all around them. I am so excited to completely reframe the discussion around boredom. Because by the end of today, you're going to start seeing your kids' boredom complaints as a good thing. As a sign that you're doing this parenting thing exactly right. I have brought in Lizzie Asa for this conversation. She is an expert on independent play and boredom, and she breaks down these topics in a way that makes so much sense, but also feels totally new and relieving. This is a conversation you're going to use right away in your home. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this. Let's just start with maybe what's born and so about. Like what is really happening in this moment? And when you hear a parent talk about their kid, who's bored, like where does your mind start to go? You know, I have to laugh because my own kids will still say to me like, Mom, I'm bored, and every time I'm like, guys, hi. Do you know me? But you know, I think the best the thing about it is that as a parent, it makes us feel like, am I doing enough? And you know, my real goal is to really reframe that for a parent of, this is a good thing. This is a good thing. And when you lean into it, it's not just about independent play. It's about relationship, understanding who your kid is, what lights them up, what are they grappling with? And when we reserve that space for boredom, and we as the adult feel anchored and okay with boredom, it lets our kids feel safe in boredom. When kids complain about being bored, most parents have an immediate thought, I'm doing something wrong, I'm not doing enough, or are you kind of saying, like, this is my problem to solve. Boardom is a problem to solve versus, look at me the versus, versus what's... You know, I think in today's culture, we see it as our job to kind of optimize childhood, to make sure we are giving our kids the opportunities that maybe we didn't have, right? We are setting them up for, you know, this enrichment, this, you know, this team sport, or whatever, to give them that leg up, right? And for me, I really think about it the opposite way, right? I really think about leaving space for boredom as that's the thing that is giving my child the opportunity and the leg up. So is what you're saying, okay, my kid says on board, maybe parents are thinking it's true, and they say that it feels like an alarm bell. And the only reason something's in alarm bell is if it's a problem to solve. But you're almost saying, Lizzie, there's something positive when your kid says on board, maybe you're doing something very right as a parent, like, do I pat myself on the back a little now? Okay, so what do I do? I do, yeah, I do, because to me, it means, okay, like, I see it as my job, and for the parents that I work with, to schedule in that downtime for play and rest in the same way. And I'm not saying, don't sign your kid up for soccer. Don't sign your kid up for the enrichment that they love. But I am saying, reserve that time to be bored, to play, to rest with the same ferocity that you do for the lessons. Yeah, yeah. And so when your kid does come to you with I'm bored, to me, that says, you becky, great job. Like you reserved the time. And I think that matters so much, because anyone listening, even that simple reframe makes a big difference. We're always unconsciously looking for signs that we're doing a good job as a parent. Of course. And if you actually think of on board as one of those signs, it's harder to be triggered by it. Even if you don't know what to do next, you stop it from being a problem to solve, right? Yes, and it is. You know, it is triggering. It is still triggering for me. And I research and study and wrote a book about the benefits of boredom. And still, I can get that feeling of, should I sign them up for that? Yes. All their friends are doing this. And I'm not. So I get it. I get it. Or do I need to now be the originator of ideas for my kid? And by the way, it's probably one of the reasons we go to bed so exhausted and resentful of our parenting, because we have almost outsourced our kids creative. Hooked abilities to being our responsibility. Because I guess I'll have to give them this activity. Or I need to come up with the idea constantly on a treadmill. Yep. But you know, I think when we think back to, to, you know, we're about the same age. And when we go back and think about our own childhood, childhoods, you know, there was time, right? To just kind of wander, to play. Our parents didn't see it as their job to entertain us. Like they were interested in us. Sure. But it wasn't all encompassing to them. Yep. Right? And so we had time and the repetition to learn how to play. To get really good at being in charge of our own long Saturday afternoon. No one was saying to us, we have this club sport and it's three hours away. And this we have this here, that wasn't happening. And 13 birthday parties. And Saturday, I don't know how. You can eat pizza and cake that many times, but you can. You know, and so we had time to practice playing and get really good at it. Yes. And now I want parents to give kids back that childhood, give them back that time. And I guess the other thing versus our childhoods is what I often think is the un-said part of the discussion around boredom and screens and dependent play is our tolerance for our kids whining. It has to be less than our parents because we're in our phones all day. We're not bored that much. I'm always like, well, what I can do, ding, ding, ding, and find such pleasure. Right? So almost tolerant of my kids discomfort, of course. And there's just so many more options available to us as parents, right? Yes. I mean, I imagine saying to my mom as a kid, I'm bored and I don't think that even registered to her. Am I the new about that? Right. That's a you problem. Yeah. Yeah. And a little bit, you're reclaiming that there's something in that that's hopeful. It is a little bit of our kids problem. At least it's not it's not our problem. It's not our problem to solve. There are ways that we can support it. And I think that's also really helpful as a parent, right? Yes. Because, you know, for me, when my kids come in and say like, I'm bored and, you know, and I feel very confident saying go be bored somewhere else because I know that in my home, I have set up what I like to call play pockets. I know that they have. There are toys and materials. There are spaces for them to read and be comfortable. They can go outside. I'm very lucky. You know, there are ways for them to entertain themselves. They might not like it. It might be uncomfortable getting from point A to point B. But I know I've done my job. You know, have you eaten? Yes. Okay. Have we connected today? Okay. Yes. Are there options available to you for you to make into what you need? Yes. Well, once those things are met in my mind, I'm like, okay, now this really is like a you problem to figure out. Yeah. Okay. I want to go through some of those things. I actually want to start with the last thing. Tell me about the difference between, as a parent, I'm hearing, you say this. Have I done my job of kind of making sure there's things set up that you could use? The difference between that and, I don't know, doing the activity or being in charge of delivering the fun. Can you differentiate those? Absolutely. Because when I say, you know, are there things for them to do? I do not mean a craft or a project or a toy that I am now going to sit with you and do. Right? I do. I mean, actually the opposite of that, right? Because I think what happens for a lot of parents is they're like, okay, play, independent play. I need to set up this beautiful sensory bin. Or we are going to make this project that I saw on Instagram and everyone in the family looked so happy doing it together. And then we go to do it in reality and what happens. Everyone's grumpy. The kid, you have now spent time, money, energy. You got excited and you're kidding, Gage, it's four, two minutes. Yeah. And then they're bored again and you're burnt out. Yes. And have less money because you just spent all this money. And then you're like, see, my kid can't play. That's exactly right. Right? And really, for me, when I think about setting up the environment for play, it means are their materials that reflect their life? Things that are interesting to them, right? So if you have a child who says, really, into, I don't know, trucks, are there trucks around? Are there a few truck books? Did we connect today? Maybe I went to the supermarket with them. But instead of just running through my to-do list and my head on the way there, I pointed out a couple trucks in the car on the way there, right? It's like, wow. Buddy, look at that one. What do you think about that one? What do you notice about that one? We're putting them as the expert in their interest. Okay. So then later, when they're bored, they have materials. They have some toy trucks or some toy books or maybe some crayons and paper. Maybe they like to draw trucks. Whatever it is. Maybe they live in New York City and they can look out the window and draw the truck. They see, they get to decide that, right? Because if you're sitting there saying, today we're going to play about trucks and we're going to make this project that I saw online and first we're going to glue this. Nope. Do it this way. That's not them independent playing, right? That's you just teaching them. Maybe a skill, but that's not how we're supporting boredom. And my guess is it doesn't give the parent the thing that they need over time, which is some amount of time when your kid can do something independently, but they're not on a screen. And this is not about screens. And I think you and I are similar to the screen thing. That's fine. But I think every parent I know says it feels like either I have to give my kid an activity or they're on a screen. What I love what you talk about is independent play is a way to get out of that binary. Yes. Right? Yes. So say more about that. And I think so much about how your work focuses so much on relationship building, right? Like at the basis of everything you're coming back to their relationship and something I really want parents to understand about play and independent play is that when you support your child and play and you value their play and you take time to watch them and observe them in their play, you're going to learn so much about like, who is my child? What's interesting to them? What are they grappling with? Yeah. I have ideas. Yeah. I have things to teach other people. That builds confidence and it gives them the confidence they need as a little one, to start playing. But then as they're older, as recently having a conversation with someone who is saying, college kids are really grappling with making small decisions. They're calling their parents for every reason and all these things. That makes me think back to, I wonder if those kids had time to play because I think that kind of resilience is really built on the living room floor at four. I know you and I see similarly about this, but I want to pull that out a little bit more because sometimes that leap isn't so obvious to other people. Okay, so it's a kid playing with trucks or maybe a kid who likes to draw free form, whatever it is. And then we're talking about a college kid who can decide which class to register when they can only pick one or wants, no, do I talk to my teacher about this or do I wait? Whatever the decisions are, zoom out from what's happening on the floor that you share often with parents about where play is play, but also it's so much more. Yeah. So can you just explain that a little more? I'd love to. So, you know, our kids, especially, I mean, I think about, you know, the parents whose kids are two, three, four, five, like the ones who are really still learning at those independent play skills, right? Think of, they don't have a lot of autonomy in their life, right? But play is a place where kids can create their own world, right? It is one of the only places that they get to make the decisions. They get to decide what happens and when in the game, right? Yep. And often time as parents, we feel it's our job to play with them. And instead of playing with them, we become the entertainer, right? Suddenly we're calling the shots. We're making the duck do this. And instead, I really want to help parents step back from that. And I'm not saying don't play with your kid. I think that's like a huge misnomer, right? You can play with your kid, but think of your role as less entertainer and more mirror. More person who says like, this is your world. Yeah. You get to make the call. I'm just here reflecting that back to you, right? And that's how our kids build those decision making skills. They become people who are like, I have ideas. That matter. I can make a mistake and the world doesn't explode. It's okay, right? And the more they can do that over time, over years, they learn that resilience. It's okay to make a mistake. Yeah. So I'm going to get at one more level concrete and tell me this is, you know, an example that resonates. So I'm building with blocks, magnetiles, whatever it is as a kid. And I think often as a parent we watch, we think, oh, steady that foundation. It's going to fall. Now listen, anyone who says that, you're just clear, you've not traumatized your kid. Your kid's going to be fine. Okay? It is not too late and it's not too late because it's no big deal. We've all said those things. Okay? So we're talking about patterns. Yes. Right? And we're actually talking about giving parents freedom to do so much less. Okay? This is a good thing for parents and it's never too late to experiment with little shift. But I think about the difference between that versus either saying nothing. I don't know, the tower falls. My kid even gets upset and I say like, oh, tower fell. Or I usually do this thing around my kids called like the wondering face. I'm like, I wonder why that fell. Almost, I felt like it created a like wonder container. But I didn't do the wonder filling of the container. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yes. And you didn't do the work. You didn't do the work. You just put out the scaffolding for the work. Yes. And so, you know, oftentimes like we can get in there and be like, well, if you just do it this way or build it up here, again, we're going back to being that entertainer. We're reflecting it back on me. Yeah. But over time, when you have a kid, right, who can build the tower, it falls, then they get to decide, am I going to build it again? Am I going to melt down? Because that's fine too. You know, like that's allowed. It's disappointing. You know, am I going to change it? And maybe I would say to them later, you know, when they go into build, hey, I remember yesterday when you were working in that fell, that was so tricky. You know, and again, I'm not going to say it's because, you know, you did this and this and this wrong. Try it this way. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to let them think back to that. Yeah. Right? They got through it. It wasn't that, you know, and maybe today they're going to build it a different way. Yeah. Well, maybe they're not ready to build it a different way. Because play gives our kids an opportunity to keep repeating something until they've mastered it. They can keep coming at it in a way that makes sense to that. I want to actually do something where we think about kids at different ages. Okay. So this is a great example. The difference between saying to a kid, when they're, I don't know, two, three, four, five, here's how you build the tower taller versus I wonder what you could do or, ooh, I wonder if something isn't as sturdy as it needs to be to make it tower. I always say it's helpful to like lead kids a little bit to the well, but let them have this like a home moment because they feel so proud. Yeah. But let's say now an older kid, like I'd love to trace this. This difference between scaffolding and doing the work for our kids because it really relates to boredom. So where do you see this? Give me an example where you see this. Whether it's in play or maybe independent past, remember, in the water bottle, that's like our four, two, three, four, five-year-old example. What if, let's say we're now kids in elementary school, right? Where do you see these kind of decisions almost coming up and to lay out for parents like one pathway and another? Yeah. I mean, you know, when I think about things like, like I was saying, you know, kids are in college and they're struggling to make a decision, right? And I'm saying like, this isn't really a college problem. This is a play problem, right? Because when kids have the opportunity to play a lot, they learn, I can, I can start without someone telling me what to do. And like that alone, like that right there is a really important skill. Yeah. Starting without someone telling them what to do. I mean, it's something I think in the workplace is a dream employee. Like, you know, not having someone who's waiting to be told what to do, but looks around and it's like, oh, I see an opportunity. So again, forget just college. This is a skill for life. Okay. So let's say it's my five, six, seven-year-old now. They come home. They have a day where they don't have an activity. And they're like, I don't know what to do on board. Yeah. Show me two paths, one where you're kind of doing the decision for your kid and one where you're setting your kid up to be able to be someone who can make those decisions. I mean, I understand a lot of times when kids say I'm bored. Our immediate thing is to start listing. It's either you have all those toys, you have all those toys, and now you're going to tell me your board, right? So there's that like resentment thing. Okay. Or we're going to say, okay, well, we could do this. We could do this. Here we can do that. Yeah. We can do that. Or they are going to do that thing where they say, then I'm going to give you some chores. You know, like a punishment kind of on that. Yeah, definitely. I'll give you things to do. Yeah, I'll give you some. But, I think instead, if we can go back to that scaffolding and saying, you are a board and you do have a whole day ahead of you, you're not really used to that. Let's think back for a minute. What's the thing you did last time you were a board? I remember on Saturday when you were building and you were creating the structure and you were really upset to stop building because we had to leave for the birthday party. Do you want me to help you think through what you were working on? Maybe you'll want to do that again or maybe you'll come up with a new idea. Yeah. I really like to think of, you know, I'm bored. I don't know what to do more as it did for connection and less as give me something to do. You know those weeks in winter when everyone just feels on edge, the dark, the cold, the being cooped up, it all adds up. Kids are arguing. Routines are off and you catch yourself thinking, okay, we might need reset. Look, nothing fancy or dramatic, just a little break from the norm. When I feel that way, I check out Airbnb. I'll filter for a cozy spot, a living room where we can actually relax. We as snowy view, maybe a fireplace if we're lucky. On a recent family trip, that change of scenery made such a difference. Having space to settle in, be together and step out of our usual routine helped us all reset and breathe a little easier. And something I really appreciate while we're away, we could host our home on Airbnb. So it doesn't sit empty and earns us a little extra income to put toward our next trip. But the thought of handling everything that comes with hosting sounds overwhelming. And that's where Airbnb's co-host network comes in. You can hire a vetted local co-host to help manage everything from check-ins, guest communication and on-site support so each stay run smoothly. It's a simple practical way to earn some extra income without adding more to your plate. If you're ready to host, but want some support, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. So if you lead with a connection, I hate when I'm bored too. Or I have those times at the end of the day. Or that's a hard feeling. And then you kind of wonder with your kid or do you want me to help you remember, you're more setting them up to be the type of person who can take initiative. Rather than when you see the onboard after school as my problem to fix, I think this is something that happens to parents a lot. We lock ourselves into the roles we don't want. I don't want my kid to always come to me. It's so annoying. Right? It's so annoying to me. Why could they be more dependent? It is annoying. It is annoying. But sometimes I think there's a reality check. It's like, well, every time my kid is bored, I do fix it for them. So I guess I am locking myself into being entertainer of the year, even though I'm kind of resentful of being entertainer for the year. And I think like that word resentful is actually such an important piece in this, right? Because the other piece for parents is that when you are the entertainer, you are on 24 seven. And when you remove that job from your description, you actually have a lot more time back for yourself so that you can show up as the person you want to be. And also, you feel more connected to your child. You really do. You know, oftentimes you will say, gosh, Lizzie, I did everything you said to do and my kid, my kid actually loves playing alone now. And I feel kind of guilty, right? And I think when that happens, they're missing that piece of reconnecting after, right? And so really taking that time, like what did my kid end up doing when they were bored? And this is, you know, great at any age is to go back and say at the end of the day, hey, remember this morning when you came to me, you were so bored, you didn't know what to do. We thought it through. I saw that you built this. I would love to hear more about that when you're ready. You know, we're not saying, what did you build? You know, show me, we're not, whenever you're ready or I heard those baby dolls crying in the play room, I wonder what they were saying about it. You know, we're not questioning them that they have to tell you, but we just want them to know, like you noticed, I noticed you playing, right? And so then we're doing two things. One, we're saying your play really matters. I notice you, you're and your ideas. And also you've got this. Like you did that. You had a problem. We thought it through together and you worked it out. And that really reinforces to them for the next time and the next time. And then they really become that kid who's like, I don't want to go with you to wherever because I've got a great idea to play with my magnetiles. They become those kids who race home after school with a really good idea of something that they need paper and tape to work out. Yep. Yeah. And I'm thinking, as our kids get older and I know you've older kids, I've kind of right in the middle where I think about, you know, our kids always forgetting the water bottle. And these patterns, there's so many extensions of them that don't explicitly have to do with play and the difference between every day. Here's your water bottle. Here's your water bottle. Even though I'm thinking, I don't want to be my kid's water bottle. Remember when he's 18, right? Even though I keep doing that versus, hey, keep forgetting your water bottle. I wonder what you would need on the wall or somewhere in our house to remember. And I think that binary is something you explain so well around boredom and playing these skills, where it's really the binary of fixing our kids problem or creating a container for them to solve their own problems. And the benefits of that, like when you're no longer your kids water bottle, remember, you do have more time to talk to them about different things because you're not running around your house and depleted all the time. And you end up with a kid who knows deep down, I can be in charge of my water bottle. And if I forget, and if, you know, it's still okay, like it's not the end of the world or maybe my teacher is annoyed at me because I forgot my violin. And that's okay too because I can learn how to advocate for myself. And it's not in the way of saying to your kid, well, you forgot. So now you deal with it. It's not like that. It's saying like, gosh, you know, you did for me. You forgot your violin. Is there a way I can support you to remember your violin? Yes. Yes. And also saying, how did you manage that? You know, like what did that feel like for you? Yeah. Right? You're in it with them. You're walking next to them. And that's what I want parents to understand about play. You walk next to them and figuring it out, but it belongs to them. It's not our job to create the magic of play. That belongs to them. And I think you're also saying your approach is that's in them. It's actually in them. It's inherent in who they are as people. Yeah. They have interests. They have a drive for autonomy. They are so creative. Yeah. So I'm thinking about the parent's listening who says this, okay, this, this all resonates and my kid isn't two or five anymore. And they're constantly looking for me for entertainment. How do I, you know, how do I shift the front of the ship a little bit? What are some things knowing the whining, the protests, the, you used to do this for me is kind of coming, coming their way. I would be really up front with, say, my seven year old, right? I am your partner in this. Like, let's figure this out together, right? Every day you keep coming home and, you know, I work from home and, and I'm working and you come in and you really want to go on the iPad because you're not sure what to do and like, I get that, right? Because sometimes when I don't know what to do, I go on my phone, right? So like, I get that, right? So right there, we're not saying like, you're bad for coming to me or you, you should know what to do. We're not saying that. We're saying like, I see you. I get it. Like, it happens to me too, right? And then I would say, and I really want to help you make a change in this because there's a lot of afternoons that could feel really good. You have so many good ideas. There's so many important things about you that you deserve time to work on. And I want to help you work on those, right? So let's think about like, what kind of things would you, if you were in charge in the afternoon, what would you be doing? You know, and really, and even if it gets like crazy and fantastical, you're not going to jump in with, well, no, we can't do that because you're really going to go to that place with them, right? Like, let them fantasize about it because it's a window for you to see in, right? And then does that mean you have to go out and buy 50 craft kits and say, yes to the iPad? No. But it does mean that you're going to say, okay, like, it sounds like you really like art, you know? And you know, we have a lot of markers and stuff in the cabinet, but you know, they are kind of hard to get to. And when you do try to pull down the paper, everything comes crashing down. So, you know, that is what I like to call barrier to play, right? So for me as an adult, I'm not going to see it as my job to go out and buy materials. I am going to see it as my job to remove the barrier to them getting started. So that might mean, let's try something. Tomorrow when you come home, I'm going to put out on the table, just like some paper and some of those markers that you got for your birthday last year and these and stickers, like what kind of stickers do you think like we have that, you know, and I'm going to put those out on the table and have a snack with them, right? I'm going to connect with them before I ask them to do something on their own. Yep. And so first of all, I just love that step by step. And the other thing I want to add is your kid won't come home and say, this is such a bad or after known than the iPad. Thank you for that set up. I love this invitation to play. They will not. I feel like most kids, if they're not used to that, will win. They will? Or they'll just say, I have an idea. You could just let me be in my iPad. What do I want to do be in my iPad all day? And it's so important not to see that as a failure, but as a actually totally predictable step. Yes. Right? Like if I was in a stage of eating like, I don't know, just kickats and Reese's every day as my snack. And I was like, I want to make a shift. This isn't like so great for my long-term energy, whatever. And I had, I don't know, whatever else out. I can't expect that I'd be like, oh, so happy for these carrots and hummus. No, of course not. No. We all want the thing that's easiest and most dopamine giving with the least amount of effort. It's just how our brain works. And so it's a little bit, I think, of a fight and just want to normalize that that is part of the process. You know what? And it is our child's job to push back. Yes. You want kids who push back. I want my kids when they feel uncomfortable to speak up, right? Yeah. And sometimes that's messy and annoying and uncomfortable. But so something that I usually tell parents to do is to sort of play that out in your head, like, okay, I'm going to take that extra 10 minutes to put out the markers and the, you know, whatever. And my kid is probably going to do it for two minutes because they're not used to this. Because it's new. It's new. And they're practicing and they're learning, right? Yes. So maybe, what do they need? Maybe I should set it up next to me at my desk, right? Maybe they want, you know, I can say like, I can't talk to you right now, but you can do your work while I'm doing mine. Yep. Right? Maybe that co-regulation is going to be something next to each other as you're learning something new. And I might even say like, you're learning something new. And sometimes it helps to be next to someone when you're doing it. Do you want to work next to me at my desk? That's exactly right. Again, does that mean the first time they're going to do it? No, they will, you should probably do it when you have a fake meeting knowing that your kid's going to be poking you the entire time. You're like, good thing I had my fake meeting today, you know, because I have to scaffold this totally new skill. One thing I want parents to think about, because I think it's a big part of it when we make any shift. And I recently did this live event in our good inside community where this was so powerful. Okay? Where I said, when you're making a shift in your family rhythms, right? Or your kind of family routines. And you kind of know your kid's going to be upset. We all focus on then my kid freaks out. But before you tell your kid the decision, right? Maybe now we're going to do markers or, you know, instead of right to iPad, how much certainty and conviction do you have in your own decision? And you know, the first response in the Zoom was zero. And everyone got to know that. And we're always looking, you know, for confirmation that we were right. And our kids are going to give it to us, right? So we write away or like, see I knew they couldn't do it. Well, that's exactly right. And this is why I just want to add here that anyone listening who's thinking, that's going to be so hard. My kid's going to freak out. This sounds too perfect. No, you're right. It's going to be hard. Any change is hard. The thing that we don't focus on enough, I think is we need to have conviction. Not that it's going to be easy. We have to have conviction in a shift in family rhythms that we think it's long term going to be better for anyone before we do it. Because if not, we're going to say it like this. When you think, don't you think it's better to do markers after school? And I always picture a five of them being like, are you consulting me? Like, am I supposed to make, am I supposed to make you feel better here? Like, and then they do freak out in part because they're kind of being asked to do our job. And also when you have a kid who's not used to a blank piece of paper and markers, like they don't know what to do. Yeah. And so something that's really helpful for my parents is to, before you make this shift, make a dire too and just jot down, you know, what does my kid talk about a lot? Even if it's like their favorite TV show, that counts. Yeah. Their favorite video game, that counts. Right. And so how can I support their interest in whatever I'm offering them? Right? Because that is sort of a path. Yes. And a way in instead of just giving them something blank and saying go for it. Right. Which I panic about. Right. So instead, I might say, you know, like if I have a kid, parents who say like, well, my kid doesn't build with blocks and I'm not going to sit there, you know, with these little wooden blocks. And I'm like, you're right. They're not. Right. They're not. Right. But if you're going to give them some wooden blocks with their favorite bluey figures or something that is connected to them, something they're already thinking about, something that's important to them. And they can work those themes out in real life. That's how you're going to hook them in. That's right. And this is where the lack of rigidity is helpful. So many times what our kids are interested in in an online game or a show can give us insight into the very areas they can play more independently. So I love that. I mean, my daughter who's 12 now, when she was little, she was obsessed with Paw Patrol. Okay. I mean, obsessed, right? And that didn't mean I went out and bought every Paw Patrol tower and toy and whatever. But you know what I did do. I invested in a lot of those little mini Paw Patrol figurines and we brought those ever-rewear. Yep. They came in the playroom because they paired so well with her. They gave her an in, right? To build. To play. To draw. They gave her something to talk about when she felt awkward at a family function. Yep. They gave her something to do in the restaurant when her food wasn't coming and she was three. And so, you know, a snack was a very big deal. Yes. And so you really want to think like what is something that my kid loves? It doesn't have to be something that you see as some very important big theme. It's literally as simple as the Paw Patrol figurine. Yes. Thank you for that. Okay. I want to end with a rapid fire around all around these themes. You ready? Okay. People need to understand this about boredom. Board of is safe and a good thing. Love that. What's something you've learned about yourself in your adult moments of boredom? Yeah. I need more of them. I need to- I talk a lot about other people carving out times for boredom for their kids. And as a grown-up, I need to practice what I preach. Yeah. Thank you for the honesty. Yes. A phrase, idea, belief, mantra, you come back to around boredom. Boredom is a place where my kids can really have time and space to understand who they are and feel comfortable being with themselves. Beautiful. If every parent could remember one thing about independent play, what would it be? It looks different for all kids. And so many things count that you might not think to. Right. One thing to not say to a kid who's bored and one thing that's often helpful to say. Something that's helpful to say is to really reflect back to them is it's hard when you're not sure what to do. Right? And something that's probably not helpful is listing off a bunch of activities. Thank you. Thank you for your work for this really important book. So excited for more parents to get it in their homes. Thank you for having me. There are three main takeaways I am still thinking about from this episode and I wanted to share them with you. Number one, tolerating our kids boredom starts with our reaction to their boredom. I know that's hard to hear, but I always think, wait, that's a good thing. Chain starts with something under my control. That's actually very empowering. Number two, my kid being bored is a sign I'm doing a good job as a parent. I'm sorry. Can we all pat ourselves on the back for that? It's not a sign I'm not doing enough. It's a sign that I'm actually trying to protect some amount of time for my kid when they are not stimulated externally, when they are not given an activity, when they actually are trying to figure out something inside themselves in terms of their own creativity, their own ideas, their own independence. And three, play is actually a really important thing for our kids to be successful adults. Play is play, but I also love what Lizzie said that this is where kids are building skill. That's where they're taking risks and learning how to deal with struggles. It's where they develop initiative, taking an idea and putting it into a state of action. That's amazing and will make me protect play in a very different way. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place a hand on your heart. Let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon.