Episode #86 Featuring Alex Tarnava! The inventor of the world’s only open-cup molecular hydrogen tablet! EVERYTHING you need to know about HYDROGEN!!

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That's timeline.com backslash Dylan35, and hurry while this offer lasts. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli podcast. So today I could not be more excited. I always have initial phone calls with all of my guests. I require it because I want to get to know them and find out just what they're passionate about so that I have the opportunity to then go research them and really dig in and learn. But it's always nice to learn what each individual is passionate about. A lot of people don't do that. So I tell you this because my guest today, I always block off about a 15 or 20 minute call. And I don't know how long we talked. And I told him, dude, I better let you go now or I'm going to talk to you all damn night because I'm so fascinated and intrigued. And they said, well, I normally do 60 minute recordings, but I, I, there's no way that you and I are going to get this done in 60 minutes. So we're going to have a little bit longer episode today because my friend here is beyond brilliant. And he's done multitudes of things that I think most of you are probably going to be aware of, but there's some new things too that I want to get into. He's a self-taught scientist, but I find you to be far more brilliant than anybody that I know with 30 letters after their name. And that's why I was so intrigued talking with you. Now, he's the inventor of the world's only open cup molecular hydrogen tablet. it we're going to get into all of that you can see his book here this is one of the most innovative books that I've ever seen because it's got two covers and two sides of the way that it flows you've got the new unit that we were just talking about that's inhalation hydrogen unit I can't wait to talk about that because it is fascinating you've got the new app that's coming out that's talking about foods and that was the other thing where I was like okay we're going to need a lot of time to go over that because that's talking about what foods have seed oils and really intense things that nobody does and then just the testing we're doing too i have it like you know because we know like all these contaminants in we don't know how much is in and even like a lot of the these uh certificates companies get saying that it's free of this or free of that and then you do the testing and you see it's not right that's why i say we've got so many things we're going to talk about but i can't do you enough justice on the intro so i'm going to stop it there just know that And he's done multitudes of things that we're going to discuss. So without further ado, my friends, Alex Tarnaba. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming down. I know it was a little jaunt. It's not terrible, but I mean, coming from Canada. Well, I was in Las Vegas. That's right. You were at A4M. So you're doing the rounds right now. Doing the milk run, going around. I'm actually heading home just to do a family Christmas shoot tomorrow, and then I'm heading back out. Oh, wow. Hey, man, you know what, though? That's the life of people that are trying to make a difference. I would say successful, but successful people, that's kind of by definition, right? But people that are making a difference and an impact, you are required to do a lot of travel. Yeah, it's unfortunate. And there's like a dichotomy in my thoughts on travel because I hate travel. I just want to be home when I'm traveling. I want to be with my family. I live in the forest. I want to see the animals, smell the trees, just be in nature, cook my own meals, relax in my home, be with my own thoughts, read, listen to music, write. And I don't get to do that as much when I'm traveling. But when COVID hit, after four or five months, I started really craving travel because just like you said, you want to do these conversations in person. you are so much more present in your meetings and conversations when you're seeing people in person. And I found that all of my projects slowed down dramatically when I wasn't able to travel and go see people, talk to them on a personal level, connect and make sure we're on the same page and moving forward to the same mission. Somebody like yourself, as intellectual as you are, answered this for me because I think that part of the reason why people that don't like to travel as much is because they're such deep thinkers, they need that alone time they need to talk, or I mean to think. However, there is that need to get out and talk about what you're saying in front of people, with people, in person, because the conversations are always much deeper and more intricate when they're in person. And you get that contrast as well. I think we're talking on the phone. There's something I've been doing lately that's been expanding my thoughts tremendously. I have stopped reading philosophy and politics of people I agree with. I only read those I strongly disagree with. I call it learning from the loathsome, because I find even the most hateful extreme people on all sides, they still observe the same truths as we do. but it's in their prescriptions that they deviate and their causations that they deviate and if we discount what they see in the reality they see then we can't understand how they came to these conclusions and we can't understand how they're convincing others to come to those conclusions and to read those contrasts and think deeply about those contrasts about the pathway that their thoughts may take to get there it helps crystallize my own thoughts to understand the truth behind everything and so i i often like reading extreme opposites back to back i like you know and writing down the shared truths they see i call them alchemical inversions so i might read and i'm doing this in my second book called the stone wall on power human nature and the failures of justice where I'll contrast the most vile misogynist against multiple second wave feminists and they really see the same thing and come to opposite conclusions. I see what you're saying and it makes sense and I love that because if you stay in a comfort zone in this area of everything is rainbows and unicorns you never challenge yourself and you never put yourself out there to actually learn something different. It's not good to just agree with everybody all the time and only look at one side of things. And that's why I like going on tangents and conversations, because you and I could maybe have some conversations on things we agree completely with. But if we have a curveball conversation where we don't know the waters we're about to tread into, then we learn more about each other. And we learn perspective on those issues. I always like to learn some new concept or a different viewpoint so that I can kind of antiquate, okay, this dude may be on to something here, and I just never gave it the time of day. 100%. And you get these very interesting perspectives from people that you don't expect to that maybe have an expertise somewhere else, but then they see something as an outsider that people inside don't see. Yes. And it's something that I believe in so much that I'm spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on editors for my books. And we are engaging in like wars, basically debating each other because I've instructed all of them to be adversarial, not just with me, but with each other. Because I believe through friction, truth emerges. So long as it's respectable friction, everyone has to defend their position. But I've hired this team of brilliant editors from multiple backgrounds of political beliefs, expertise. Some of them are from high-level universities like Harvard and Stanford and Oxford. Others have left academia, disenfranchised, even what you'd say conspiracy theorists or what they'd be accused of, but with plausible rationale behind what they think is wrong. And so I get these people all across these belief spectrums from different expertises. And it's often someone outside the field that gives an insight into the field they're commenting on. Now, they might not have the deep knowledge that someone inside the field does, but they see something from a different way. And then it shifts the conversation, the debates we're having. But we always start with the book as one Google document. and then all of a sudden we have to split it and split it more and split it more because the comments will lead to often more text than is written in there. So the second book started as a chapter in Stress Act and then the chapter ballooned to 30,000 words and that's too much for a chapter. I realize there's just way too much to talk about in this chapter. It needs to be a book and we're like, okay, maybe it'll be a short book, 50, 60,000 words, but these debates just kept ballooning and I'm like okay we have to go down this rabbit hole and that rabbit hole and now it's over 200,000 birds and I don't know where it's going to end. You know what here's what happens and this is a lot of the political stuff which I absolutely, now I'm a very spiritual guy I've made that clear to you before so in faith and what I've learned through the Bible is you're supposed to avoid that type of thing, it's not good for you, it's contaminating and I do avoid it but what I've learned from watching it before because I watched it for need and necessity so I understand what's going around economically, how we're going to be affected. What happens? Well, people that watch who they agree with don't even give someone they disagree with the opportunity because the people they agree with embed into their head that those other people are terrible, they're evil, everything they say is bad. Dehumanize them. Yes. And so you never have the opportunity on either side to ever listen because you're already before you even go into it, you're one track minded. And I I've fallen into that. I think we all have it. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, you mentioned the people who don't like to travel because they want alone time. And that's a non-negotiable for me. I need time. Even when I'm traveling, I need minimum half an hour. I prefer one to two hours a day where I can be with my thoughts. Yeah. Right. To sort them out, to sort through the chaos, introspection, you know, but also to analyze the conversations I've had. You know, we're all human. we all will have our emotions flare up. We are a different person at every moment, depending on what happened to us in the previous moment. So perhaps I snap at someone. Why? Well, maybe it was the interaction I had immediately before. And so now I might be mad at that person, but was I justified in how mad I was? Right. Or maybe a misunderstanding led to confusion on both ends that escalated. escalated. So I like replaying the worst conversations I've had in a day to try and identify where they went wrong and where they broke down and what my responsibility in that breakdown was. That's good. And you know, that's why I always like to talk and I leave a lot of voice notes now because that loss of real communication, like you and I are talking, your tone, if you text me that, it might come, I might not be able to read your tone and I might take it an entirely different way and you might have not meant any way that I took it. None. That's why I think at the minimum, the voice notes that I do now are important so you always know where I'm coming from and how I'm conveying what I'm thinking. But I am a big communicator. I like to do phone calls. I don't like to buy cars by text or homes like you can do now. I think that the reliance upon that has really led to a lot of problems that people are having socially. Why, I mean, how do even like young boys ask a girl out anymore without doing it by text, you know, or the people that talk a lot of stuff behind a keyboard that would, they don't have, they're doing that because they don't have any personal skills. And it goes in both directions, right? You know, people say aggressive things that they never would have said in the past because there were real physical consequences. You're already saying that. That's true. But then at the other side, they're saying maybe vile things to a girl and there's no repercussions. If you're saying that, you'd never say that to someone in person, right? But then you're also not getting the confidence and you're not going through that productive struggle. And, okay, this didn't work, right? I tried to approach that girl or I had that conversation with that person. It didn't go how I wanted it to go. And we're not forced to think about why. Why didn't it go the way I want it to go? People are just powering through, sending a million messages to each other until they hit the lottery or something. And it's a real breakdown in productive struggle. and these lessons that we have had to learn about ourselves from the dawn of time until the last generation. I know. My dad made me do something very hard when I was young that really kind of shaped my ability to communicate. So I was a sophomore in high school, and I got in trouble. We were trying to buy cigarettes after a football game one night, and we were asking people at the grocery store to buy cigarettes. Well, guess what? We asked an undercover cop of all the people to ask. So the guy goes in, calls the police, comes out. Police come, get out of here. You better get out of here and leave. We start walking away. I see the police officer, you know, drive away, and then the guy walking back out of the store. And I told my friends, I said, shit, I'm going back down there getting our money. So I went back down there. The police rolled back around. I ran in the store. They came and grabbed me, picked me up. Long story short, they called my parents to come pick me up. so my dad made me go tell my football coach the following day at eight in the morning up at school myself what i did what they didn't they would have never known you know what i mean they would never he made me do that and i i always go back to that because that's when i say that's when i really became like a man in terms of now every time something comes up i'm the one like my wife my mom my kids i'll handle it don't worry about it because i'm always i've always been ready ever since then to go handle whatever because that made me fearless. Yeah, I mean, and we need to learn these lessons. Yeah. And we've talked to Amina and I read about some of these in my book. My dad never made me do something like that, but he'd do other things like he'd drag me to his shop and I'd have to help him work until 2, 3 in the morning, high school. And then I'd get home and I'd be so tired. And then as soon as I hit snooze on my alarm to not get up to school, dump ice water on and say, you know, I'd be like, I'm tired, you kept me up to three. And he'd say, a man needs to know that the world doesn't stop turning just because he's tired. You have to get to school. Well said. Well said. My dad used to come in and, you know, I lived in Iowa, so the winter's brutal. You know what he'd do to wake me up if I wouldn't get up? Just jerk the whole, everything right off. Instead of, go wake up, son, wake up and walk away. No, all the covers came off. The whole thing, just jerk it off, man. And imagine, back then, it's not like my parents had a lot of money, so even with the heaters on, they weren't jacked up, and it was freezing. But you know what? That type of stuff, people now would go, oh, that's so bad, and it's so bad. Not really. No, it isn't. It isn't. And I tell some of the stories, even what some of my football coaches did to us, and people are like, oh, they go to jail today. And I'm like, that is why we have problems, right? we need to learn how to overcome adversity that's how we get stronger you know that is why i wrote this book we've known since the greeks probably before that but you know aristotle wrote it down even his ideas like you know eudaimonia have been perverted into say it's about happiness and happiness is comfort no it's about a life of purpose of productive struggle that builds your spirit, that builds your soul. That's right. So one of the things that I've really come to understand that's not an easy concept, I don't care how faithful you are or how much you believe, it's not easy, and that is that these times of struggle and the obstacles that we've given are such a huge blessing because in reality, what it's doing is showing us and teaching us perseverance, and once we get through it and the strength that we build and then what happens from it is priceless. It's priceless. I 100% agree, so long as it's achievable. Yes. Right? Yeah. And I agree. This is part of the nuance that I think a lot of people are missing, right? You get the one side, you know, in our current institutions and academia and such, let's say any struggle is bad, it's harm, it's damage, people want safe spaces, They want to be weak and strength is evil and toxic. That is complete bullshit, right? Yeah. But on the other side, people glorify pain just for pain, right? We need the right amount of stress and struggle followed by the right amount of recovery to adapt and learn and become stronger. And then we need to move forward and expand ourselves again. I agree. I'm paraphrasing. I remember hearing a recorded lesson from Tony Robbins when I was maybe 19 years old, 18 years old. And I'm getting the concept right. I might be getting the verbiage wrong. But he was talking about your sphere of competence. And most people just stay within their sphere of competence. And they get to the utter limit. And they turn back and revert into themselves. Really, we grow when we get to that edge. And we push. And we struggle. and we try to get through that outer edge. Maybe we just move a foot forward. And maybe it was very hard, but now we've overcome that challenge or partially overcame that challenge and we have hope that we can get even farther the next time. So now our sphere is a little bit bigger. I agree. And we just need to keep pushing the boundaries of our sphere of competence and capability more and more so that what was struggle yesterday becomes easy and second nature tomorrow. I thoroughly agree, and that's well said. That brings us to why you wrote this book, the concept of it, because it's very, very cool. You told me before you sent it to me how it was and kind of how it was laid out, and I had a picture in my head, but then I got it, and I was like, man, this is pretty sweet, you know, and I have it sitting right next to my desk right now because I haven't, I started reading it because of all the travel and everything, but what I've read is great. talk about it because I've made it clear to you that I'm a mind-body connection person. That's my whole purpose. So that's kind of the premise here. Yeah. So it all started when I kind of woke up from a trance. And the reason I got into hydrogen, that I developed the hydrogen tablets and got into this field. I was in a totally different field. I had a health crisis. I was a semi-competitive athlete. They got a virus they couldn't figure out that caused an autoimmune-like response. It attacked my cartilage. I developed osteoarthritis in 11 different joints. This is my left shoulder. It's bone-on-bone arthritis with multiple labral tears. That's why I was just at CPI in Mexico a week and a half ago, getting 170 million stem cells. My hip is bad. My hands are bad. My back has four ruptured discs in a compressed SI joint and nerve damage. I'm just a mess. But at first, when I lost that identity, you know, with my strength and my physical strength was part of my identity. It also collapsed my body and my will with it. And I started drinking and I started eating poorly and I put on 100 pounds and became basically an alcoholic. Now, I wasn't a follower drunk every day, but I was drinking a bottle or two of wine every day. That's going to slow down your mind. So it broke me down in so many capacities. And when I kind of crawled out of the abyss, then I just kind of hung out at the edge. I didn't go back to climb and become stronger again. But as I climbed out, I noticed that the world was a little bit different than I remembered it here, that we were pathologizing the pursuit of strength as evil and toxic, that people were getting weaker and more sensitive and all these things. and it hit me hard because I had become weaker and more sensitive. And I realized that the only way back was to fix myself. I needed to fix my health, I needed to fix my mind, and I needed to fix my purpose. And that's what this book is about because it's all connected. So on the one cover you have the mind, on the other cover you have the body. They're inverted. we can go here, so I can start at either end. I love that. Neither the mind nor body takes priority over the other. It's not like you start the body and then go to the mind or vice versa. You can choose and go whatever direction you want because they are equals. And the middle, or the end, or the middle, however you want to call it, of each end, there are mirrored interludes at the end of the body and at the end of the mind that are very similar but from a different perspective and they are all about the purpose of strength or the weight of strength as i call it and i believe that our society has perverted our perception of what it means to be strong understatement so we evolved strength when we were you know hunter-gatherers in wandering tribes, and it was selected for. Women wanted strength, and what did they want? They wanted a man who'd rebel and take her and others with them and serve a new tribe. And that man had to protect everyone, the leader. They had to be empathetic. They had to care about the people that were coming with them. Otherwise, who would follow them? That's a good point. Nobody would follow them. No. So the problem is that these traits are very easy for people with antisocial personalities to mimic. Now, when you're in smaller communities, you can't get away with mimicking that forever because eventually the mask will fall down, it will crack, and then the people around you don't trust you, right? And you won't be a leader. You'll be an outcast. You'll be shunned. But the larger society has gotten, the larger our cities have gotten, these people don't ever have to be around the same person long enough for their mask to repeatedly fall and break. They can act the part of being strong and a leader better than those who are actually strong and leaders so they can take over. And it is this co-opting of strength. But there are plenty of people with strength in society. we tend to just still focus on tending our own garden, on helping our families, on helping our communities, but we're losing the larger macro battle for society. And this is why people with strength need to get on the same page, need to understand what is going on, how it's all being taken away from us so that we can take back society for everyone. because at the end of the day, strength is symbiotic with weakness. It's the weak who protect the strong and the strong who protect the weak. And strength is about lifting up those around you. It's not about subjugating or taking advantage of those around you. So this is a weight of strength. And I believe to truly be strong, you need unity of strength in your mind, your body, and your purpose or your spirit or your soul, whatever word you want to use And if you don have this unity if you are strong in two areas or not in one where you weak corrupts you it becomes toxic, and it turns where you're strong into a weapon, both internally in insecurity and externally on those around you. And this is why we need to realize the totality of what we are and strive for everything. Now, strength is different for every person. I'm never going to be a competitive athlete again, but that doesn't matter. I just need to pursue as much as I can handle for myself. I need to judge myself against myself. Same thing with mind and purpose. You know, it's all about always moving forward, one step forward at a time, pursuing this unity, not judging it against some arbitrary definition or random other person, judging it about yourself and your own mission. Yeah, 100%. And you say that, and that's one of the things that when you say strength, a lot of times it's easily misconstrued by people. Yeah. People now more than ever like to take words and jumble them and change the definition. And mental strength is vital. I mean, you look at, I'll compare it to an athlete. So you have people that have all of this ability in the world and probably a lot that have, let's say, equal ability. But what separates a star from a superstar? It's their mental toughness in the clutch, their ability to perform and come through and not only not be fearful, but want the ball at the end of the game, want to make the play. Their will. You see that in individual sports. Yes. What makes someone great over good? And those who are great often aren't the most skilled. That's right. They're the people who do not back down, who do not quit, who do not give up, and keep trying until their will overcomes the will of technically the better person. Right. It's true. That's what separates a lot of things in life in general. So people misinterpret what strength means. Of course, physical strength is part of that. But that is only a fraction. And of course, intellect is part of mental strength. But it's only a part. Because intellect means nothing without wisdom. That's right. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. And that's another thing that gets lost in translation. It's like I say, there's a difference between faith and trust. There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Because wisdom is knowing how to use the intelligence properly. Exactly. Because just being smart doesn't mean shit. If you're just smart, but you don't have purpose, and you don't connect with those around you, you weaponize it. You manipulate people. You don't hurt people. You know, one of the things, and you hurt yourself in the process, because you disconnect from other people, and we're social beings. No matter how introverted we are, we need connection. That's right. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people, when they say prayers, they pray for certain things. They pray for people. This is all great. This is all wonderful. But when I ask for stuff for myself, you know what I ask for the most is compassion and wisdom. And I feel like by having both of those, then you understand to be compassionate towards people that need it. But you also have the wisdom to know what to do with everything that's presented around. I call it tempered empathy. That's really well put. We need to make sure our heart still bleeds. Yeah. but not so much that we harm everyone else around it you know that it's bleeding so much for a certain cause but also that it doesn't harden into like cold steel utilitarianism because we are both logical and empathetic and we need to strike that balance balance balance balance balance that's mind and body with their own if those aren't balanced there is no way that you can really be healthy. It's impossible. I can sit here and fix all your hormones, all your food, your fitness, all of it. Strength train you into the ground. But if your mind is gone or it's off or it's struggling or it's stressed, you know this. And the same thing, you can be as brilliant as you want. But if you're inflamed and out of redox and your neurotransmitters neurotransmitters are all screwed up. What is your intellect doing? Nothing. Exactly. It's crumbling. Right. And that's why we need them both because they're connected. Exactly. When I was at my worst was when I was probably knowing my most because my diet was so far off because I've had battle of the eating disorder and the fear of fats and eating so little and not eating any fats. And I couldn't stay focused longer than 20 minutes. and vice versa. Some of the times where I've been in my best condition and eating right and everything, I'm so screwed up mentally and so stressed and so gone and angry and this and that. It's just off. Completely off. Yeah, I mean, when I gained 100 pounds, I was actually consuming less calories than before, but they were the wrong calories. Right. I was so obsessed with figuring out the hydrogen tablets and I was so depressed about my physical state, I'd forget to eat all day long, and then all of a sudden it would be 11 p.m. at night, and I'd order a pizza and open a bottle of wine. You know, and that would be my only sustenance. Right. And then I'd sleep three and a half hours and wake up and do it again. How was your sleep? And I already knew the air. So, okay, I want to talk to you then about the tablets because that's kind of what you're kind of known for at this point, although I would argue that some of these other things, to me, are more impactful. The tablets are very impactful. Very, very impactful. I want to get into the whole thing, like your discovery, how you've kind of made that be more mainstream now and discuss just everything that you can get into about the development of it and how you figured it out and why do you feel that they're so beneficial? I feel they're so beneficial because of the way I'm pursuing evidence about them. And, you know, we already have, you know, we have something like 35 or 40 studies on the hydrogen tablets. I think 24, 25 on humans clinical trials. We have more research that's currently underway than we have published. And there are a lot of studies that are either in manuscript prep or under peer review or soon to publish that I know the results of that give me more confidence. And that is actually how publishing works. Sometimes it takes two, three years to publish a study. So those who are on the inside, yeah, if you want to write it properly, assess the data properly, make sure it's a good paper, go through the peer review process. We don't have enough peer reviewers. We talk about these credential fallacies. They're so desperate now for reviewers that even though I have no formal education, and I know we talked to, I'm actually in university right now because I have multiple PhD offers, but I have to get a bachelor's first, which I don't have. Right. But because of my publication record, I have been getting asked to review multiple publications that are supposed to only be for professors and stuff, but they can't find enough professors and people attached to academia to review all these papers. So now they're getting desperate and they're emailing people like me who have a publication record. And these aren't small publications. These are Q1 journals with high impact factors and major publishers. So there is a bit of a crisis in academic publishing. And actually, I write substantially about this too. Our entire perception of what is empirical evidence is flawed, but this is a big tangent. It's based on the privatization of academic publishing that happened in the late 1950s. Basically, when I developed the hydrogen tablets, I had been bouncing around from business to business, starting different businesses. So I had offers for playing football and I had great grades, but I had a bit of an existential crisis as a teenager. I was learning about finance. I was learning about, you know, compounding interest. I know we talked about this a little bit, and none of it sat right with me. And I was thinking about how these various careers worked. And I am highly autonomous. And I do not, I have what probably would be diagnosed as oppositional defiance disorder. I don't want to be told what to do. and so I thought to myself my biggest interest is philosophy after that is science but how do you actually pursue truth in philosophy or science when you're beholden to financing and it's true you know bureaucracy and all of these oversights and overseers were going to tell you what to do so I decided I was going to do things a different way I was going to pursue knowledge in all these domains as a hobby and i was going to look at finance separately and accrue wealth to give me the freedom to learn about the things i want to learn about yeah um that would always work for a time until it didn't or maybe because i didn't because these various careers and businesses i started even though they were lucrative i didn't care about yeah right um they didn't give me purpose they didn't bring me joy they didn't bring me fulfillment right so i'd eventually become disenfranchised and want to try something else or um that just repeated that cycle repeated during those times whenever i'd become disenfranchised all of a sudden i'd lose tens of thousands of dollars partying at the club you know like buying designer clothes living high life to try and fill the hole in my soul that was being carved bigger and bigger by all these career choices that weren't giving me meaning. I don't understand that. So then I turned to fitness and I just read more and I decided money wasn't that important. You know, I have enough to live the lifestyle I want anyways. But then my health crisis happened. How old were you when that happened? 29. Okay. So I caught a mystery virus. They don't know what it was, but it causes autoimmune-like response. My C-reactive proteins were 34 milligrams a liter, so like more than 100 times abnormal. I had central nervous system fatigue. I couldn't jump in and chop the ground or do any explosive movement. I had chronic fatigue. I was sleeping 16 to 18 hours a day. I had sudden onset narcolepsy. that if I sat down for like a minute or so without stimulation, I'd fall asleep. The only time I actually felt okay was when I was exercising. But within an hour or so, after exercising, even like lightly, I'd crash and just sleep for the rest of the day. It caused a deep, deep depression. But when it started to clear, when the fog started to clear, I couldn't think properly, you know, with everything going on. I, you know, was seeing doctors. We couldn't figure it out. But then my C-reactive proteins dropped like three, which is like what you might expect when you have the flu and a fever. I was told to never exercise again because of arthritis I'd developed, polyarthritis in 11 joints, you know, from this inflammatory attack. They put me on 1,000 milligrams of naproxen a day, I'm sure. So, you know, that's like super-alive prescription, you know, strength and quarterly cortisone injections. Told me to never exercise, like I said. I just knew at 29 that was not a forever solution. No. And all the time I spent training, I just dove into PubMed and just looked for anything that could regulate my inflammatory response and anything emerging. And I was a massive skeptic. I was involved in skeptic communities. I hated the supplement industry. I hated anything on the front of them. I actually had a hobby of going on to these pages. Actually, I know some of the people now and find them to be very good people, but I would troll them and show that they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm not going to name names. But I had such a switch. When I got desperate, it was cathartic that I understood what appeals to people to go down that road. Because there was no amount of money that I had access to that I wouldn't try anything. If there's a single study in a mouse, I was going to try it to fix myself at that time. And I found research on hydrogen and hydrogen water. There was nothing really commercially available. This is 11 years ago. there were the water ionizer machines yeah you know in a while you bought a kangen machine you know for like five thousand dollars uh went on my merry way i was going into to cryo saunas before it was a thing 11 years ago and real saunas and going to chiropractors which i'd never done before and going to naturopaths and try everything paying for devices try like buying all these supplements but I was still taking the naproxen and the cortisone injections too. You know, and maybe nine months after, I was ignoring the specialist's advice and my GP's advice that I was still exercising and going to CrossFit. You know, and still CrossFit. I'd stopped martial arts, which I should have kept martial arts and stopped CrossFit. Right. I stopped martial arts and I continued CrossFit. I should have the hell of a way around. That's the worst thing you could have been doing. It was, but I was in such denial, you know, at the time about my situation. But about nine months into this, I fainted in the gym a few times over a couple of weeks. I developed multiple ulcers. I wasn't processing my nutrition. So I had to stop the naproxen. And within a few days, all my joints ceased. I couldn't put on a jacket, couldn't put on socks. And I realized that nothing I was doing was working, just the drugs were working. You were bandaging the wound. Exactly. I mean in suppressing the inflammation. Yeah. You know, what was going on. And so I dove back into it and I was searching and I found a bunch of new papers on hydrogen water. And it really pissed me off because I had this $5,000 machine that wasn't working. it was a paperweight, but it just dawned on me, how do I know what dose I'm getting? That's it. And so I started buying the publications, they're usually 40 bucks, 50 bucks, 60 bucks, and reading the full material and method. I found that none of the studies were using an alkaline water ionizer machine to make hydrogen like I'd bought. And so then I bought a reagent to test for it, and it was undetectable. So then I thought to myself, well, I haven't tried hydrogen. So then I started looking. A lot of them were using magnesium. Others were bubbling gas, you know, into water and then pressurizing it. Getting gas tanks to a commercial residence wasn't possible. So I started looking for magnesium. It's controlled, like, by the DOD in the U.S., so I wasn't able to get that. But I was able to find sources in, like, Eastern Europe and China. I'm an extremely obsessive person. when I get my mind on something. And I'm getting this magnesium powder and it would come through custom saying like silver paint coloring. So I already was like, okay, this is a little sketchy. I remember those days. And then I started making powders, but the powder floats and I'm like, okay. So I started compressing it and playing around and was making these tablets, hand pressing. I bought a kit, hand pressing things. I think the kit I bought was for drugs. Illegal drugs, but I was making... Was it China, the kit you bought? No, it was someone in British Columbia that was, you know, selling them in a less than legal way, I think. And fabricated it for me. So I was making these, and they were getting like 3 milligrams a liter, 3 parts per million. And I was drinking like 4 liters of it a day, like pressurizing it. you know in my fridge drinking them the next day making them let them build up saturate and like within a few days some of my joints started loosening within like 10 days all started loosening i'm like holy shit like there's something here but then i had a sober second thought i'm like you know i know enough of the chemistry to get this to work but i'm not a chemist i don't want to win a darwin award yeah i don't want to poison myself i don't want to i'm dealing with elemental magnesium that burns out like 6,000 degrees. It's the white and fireworks. It's a munitions-grade powder, and it's making hydrogen gas. I feel like the Hindenburg. So I'm like, I better make, and I'm doing it in my kitchen. I don't want to blow myself up either. So I found my founding partner. He's a PhD chemist from the pharmaceutical industry, designs molecules, synthesizes them for drugs. And at first he called it the worst pseudoscience he'd ever heard in his life and gave me all these reasons why, you know, hydrogen has no physiological role. And even if it did, why you'd want to inhale it rather than drink it. We can get into that later. They have different distributions. Yeah. But I had read every publication on the therapeutic potential of hydrogen at the time. So I was able to rebut him, give him answers to all his objections. and he said well okay this is is i did not expect there to be a single study on this i still don't buy it but okay i'll take a look at what you're doing and i just i was so excited that someone was going to help me out with what i'm doing because it was working i just kept sending the paper every day a new paper and serendipitously i sent him one on a certain disease model that uh it was a phase two trial like 60 participants that had really strong results I didn't know it but he was designing small molecules for that disease at the time and he called me and said hey I want to meet you for lunch and he had printed off the paper and he said this paper he's like the others I was just having to look at the methodology and the conclusions but I'm a subject matter expert I'm designing molecules on this disease so I've had to learn about it and unless this is broad this stuff works are you sure you want to do this just as a do it yourself project and that you don't want to commercialize it and I thought long and hard I didn't want to go into the supplement industry I still had all my reservations about you know evidence and trustworthiness and yeah everything and I'm like okay like what are the regulations in being a drug could I raise money and then so I started looking into raising money and I started learning about shareholder primacy you know and all the evil that happens from that. And then sort of looking at the regulations. I'm like, well, I don't even think this fits the definition of a drug. It seems to be playing more of a regulatory role, right? It has pleiotropic benefits. So back to the supplement avenue. But I'm sort of thinking, how can I do this ethically, you know, so that I can sleep at night and look at myself in the mirror? And this whole time I'm going down and I'm still trying to make it, you know, because at the end of the day, I still want it for myself. Because we figured out how to, he'd optimized my formula for a mortar and pestle to make like 20 at a time. Within like a few weeks, I wasn't that far off. But then to make them on actual production equipment, like millions at a time at high speed, that was 16 months, 3,000 of an iterative adjustments, and 15 failed scale-up attempts. But again, I'm extremely obsessive, and I don't stop until I solve a problem or a challenge, as I think of them. We got there. We made our first production batch. And I thought to myself, I don't have a plan to sell these. I don't know what I'm going to do. I just want to keep moving forward. And that's how a lot of my life has been. I move forward and then make the plan after I figure something out. So I decided I didn't want to sell this unless I had a plan to see if it was effective or not. And even though I was getting the same concentration that a lot of these studies were, I could use those. What if there's something different? What if there's a different side reaction? What if something's going on that I don't know? I want to demonstrate it and I want to advance the research. So I emailed every first and every corresponding author on every study on hydrogen at the time. I offered them free product, free placebo donations to strengthen their studies, and no ownership over the data, meaning that they can publish the results whether it works or it doesn't because I only want to sell it if it works. I don't think anyone is trustworthy enough to have that power because what ends up happening, say I have a contract that I get to decide if it's published and now I've spent hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars and years of my life doing something, I could justify, well, this trial was bullshit, right? They did it wrong. I don't want to publish it. And it's very easy to fool ourselves and trick ourselves in this way. So because I have that conflict, I don't want that power to do it. And that is, this philosophy is why I have what would probably be valued in the research in the nine-figure range if it had been through contract research organizations, but it's been primarily government grants and investigator-initiated trials that they've gotten funding from their universities and grants in the government to do this research because they own the data. And usually industry won't do this, but because of the compromise I made with myself, when I entered, I committed myself to doing it this way. and I'm just lucky and fortunate that it has panned out and that the results have been good. You can't really get any more trustworthy or credible by the way that you went about it. I love the fact that you were willing to just publish it, whatever, because a lot of people are not like that. I don't think people understand what really goes on. See, I'm privy to some of that info, as you are, that, like, well, if that doesn't come out right, you're not putting that out there. Exactly. So if industry and that is not just pharma, that is the supplement industry, it was worse there. Exactly. So when I mentioned shareholder primacy, so that was a Supreme Court of Michigan ruling in 1919. It was the Ford Motor Company against the Dodge Brothers, who were investors in Ford at the time. and Henry Ford sent out his shareholder you know letter announcement saying that he planned to reduce the cost of the cars you know for sale and increase employee wages and benefits because he wanted to live in a country where everyone could afford a Ford yeah they were on massive back order they couldn't make the cars fast enough I bet that before he wanted to do these things and the Dodge Brothers said well no we invested to make money. We don't care about your ethics and morality. Your job is to make us more money. You should be raising the cost. You're on back order and you should be looking for cheaper labor. Wow, I didn't know that. And they went all the way to the Supreme Court of Michigan and the Dodge Brothers won. Really? And that set the precedent of shareholder primacy. Now, what that means is at the executive level, the fiduciary duty of any executive is to maximize profit of the shareholder. And they have a legal obligation to do that. If they don't do that, then they can be sued, they can be terminated, they'll be blacklisted from industry. And this is why I don't really believe in conspiracy. I believe in emergent behaviors based on the structure we are within. Because think, you live your life. Maybe you get into pharma because your parent is sick, one of your parents or your brother or your sister or your grandparent and you want to find a company and you work and you work and you really believe and you rise up and now you're the chief science officer or you're the CEO of a company in the industry. Now you're privy to all the dirty, dark secrets that are going on, man. But you have layer after layer of confidentiality agreements. You have your fiduciary duty. If you try and change things based on an ethical or moral stance now there real consequences You can be sued You can lose your shares lose your income lose your home Your family is now in hardship right You are maybe middle-aged with children. You won't have any retirement. You lose everything. And at that point, basically everyone makes the decision we know they're going to make that they prioritize themselves and their family over society. and it doesn't make them evil people they've been put in a position where they're forced to do an evil thing it's dangerous and like I said I've been in the supplement industry I was in the supplement industry I don't know 15-20 years and one of the main reasons I just got out of it for so long was because what I saw actually goes on back there and it's not just the production it's also the competition on what they do to each other and what they do to get ahead. And that's why I want to accentuate some of the things that you said again, because it lends to a couple of things. One, your overall credibility, but two, that there are actually some good people out there that do things the right way. I think most people are inherently good people, but they're forced to do bad things. Yeah, I agree with that. I do agree with that. I think that there's a lot of people that I thought were bad before I got the understanding they're not bad. Some of their actions are bad or they were put into situations to be bad actions. And then they justify it because they don't want to introspect and come to terms with the decision they were pushing to make. So true. Done that? Yeah. And the reason that you and I are so aware of is because we've done it, but we know not to do it now or we grew from that and learned from it. And that's my thought. In the book, I write deeply about guilt and shame. And I believe that they need to be confronted. We need to feel them very deeply for an acute period and keep that scar, that memory of them, so that we don't do it again, but not carry it with us forward. Because if we carry it forward, it becomes a chronic stress that drags us down. But we need to feel it so intensely that we are dissuaded from ever behaving like that again. That is so well said. So like, you know, my story, I went to prison, and I don't look at it anymore as I used to beat myself to death, that I have to fix this, I have to make this up to my mom, my dad, all the people I let down, I have to make it up to God, I have to do this. When I realized I did my time, I became far better for it, and it set me up to be what I am today. I don't look at it like that anymore. Do I regret the behavior? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? Yeah. But do I regret it actually happening? No, I do not because I wouldn't be sitting here with you right now, nor would I have the sense of everything that I've come to be and learn right now. And that's why we shouldn't be thinking about regret. All right. No. We should be thinking, are you happy right now? Do you like who you are today? Yeah. If you like who you are today, then you have to be thankful for all your mistakes and all the trauma of the past because you wouldn't be you today without that i wouldn't have met my wife i don't know what the hell i would have been doing you could be a lot worse right i could believe we look back and we think maybe i would have been this maybe i would have been that but you're not right right you need to focus on the moment are you happy right now and think about who you want to be tomorrow so that you can use the moment now to move towards that person you want to be that's it maybe doesn't do anything for anybody at all maybe it puts thoughts into your heads that are not realities yeah right and and i don't do maybes anymore and i don't do can'ts and i don't do complacence i don't do any of that because those things impede our actual production you know what i mean and i think focusing more on the realities would actually help people to be happier and be more productive and more successful Yeah, absolutely. And both on an individual level, and we need to think about that on a societal level also. That's right. We need to understand these big questions about who we are as individuals and how that equates to society. Because we try and structure society on how we think things ought to be, not on how they are. we try and build if we think of society like a building every architect of society tries to make a building and segment everything in each place but what we really need to do is understand the flow of individuals the movement of individuals and we need to build a course with guides and a track so that everyone can run the race of life within some guidelines and not be forced into rooms that are not within their innate nature. I love that. Let me ask you this. Let's take hydrogen tablets, hydrogen water. What's the difference? Is one more effective than the other? Is one proven better than the other? What's the take? So the hydrogen tablets are just a way to make hydrogen water. Now, the difference is the concentration and the dosage. Okay. With the tablets, it's repeatable, right? So with a lot of the machines, all of them may work great when they're brand new. If you know how to use it, how to get the right concentration, you know the dose conversion. So everyone talks about concentration parts per million. Right, right, right, right. But, you know, if you have 100 parts per million in a milliliter of water, it's still not that big of a dose. The dose is what's important because that's what distributes into your tissues. So we have to look at the dose you're getting when you're consuming that, but not just the dose you're getting, how quickly you're consuming it because we know the mechanism in how hydrogen works. Well, there's a few mechanisms, but the one way it's working is something called a mitohormetic effector. So it's binding to a specific protein that damages the mitochondria, sort of like exercise for the mitochondria. It's a slight stress that induces these adaptive changes that we respond to. It sets off all these cell signaling pathways. We regulate our redox status via the NRF2K1 pathway. We regulate our inflammatory response through NF-kappa beta, right? So all of these, it's a regulatory role. Like a supervisor going in and fixing things, and it gets a little bit worse for a second, but then all the dials are switched and everything is working a little bit better. Yeah. So we know just like exercise, you're not going to get a good workout if you do a rep every 15 minutes or every hour. So you want to flood your system with H2 very fast. You want a big dose fast, and then you don't want any more. Okay. Because you want that spike of stress, and then you get that adaptation when you're recovering. Okay. Okay, so a lot of companies and a lot of technologies in the market don't understand this, don't understand the mechanism of how it works. So with the tablet, in trying to understand the mechanism and trying to get this way, that's why we recommend dropping it in the most water you can tolerate. Personally, I drop like four or five tablets in one liter, so that's like 33.6 ounces, I think, and I chug it first thing in the morning usually like up and over like I'm in a beer drinking competition right but that's it for the day then yeah sometimes I'll do it twice a day okay so I'll do a lower dose in the morning and a lower dose in the afternoon and switch it around just like we know with exercise if you do the exact same exercise every day forever it ceases to be exercise and so every six months or so I do a one or two week washout I let my body seize up stress out and then I hit it from a different angle okay right but I do it like that. So with the tablets, we know we get a consistent dose. If they're stored properly and produced properly, so they're designed for room temperature water, you know, within a range. So between three parts per million of total dissolved solids all the way to a couple. You don't want to use highly alkaline mineral water, and you don't want to use distilled water. RO water is good? RO water with remineralization is perfectly fine, yeah. Okay. You know, most tap and bottles is perfectly fine. just from my understanding because I haven't gotten into the tablets until I spoke with you in person and tried that route. So I just use the water bottle. I do like four or five times a day. It's kind of what I've been doing. I do it, if you're using one of the, I think you're using the Echo. The Echo water bottle, yeah. I think, make sure you hear a pressure release. Yeah, we, yeah. Because the gaskets start going over time and all of a sudden you might drop from like five parts per million down to 0.5 parts per million because it's not pressurizing the unit. But I mean, five parts per million is a good concentration so long as you get a good dose. Yeah. So you're probably going to want to drink about a liter of that within 10, 15 minutes. You want to hit it a few times. With tablets, you could do that in like half a liter, right? Because the concentration is about 12. Drop on it, it takes a minute, and you just slam it as fast as you can. so you can get the same dose using the bottles if the bottle's gasket hasn't you know, chilled, you just need to drink more water in that same short I want to try the tablets but I wanted to talk to you about it first before I just say hey send them you know, like, let's cry I wanted to get some understanding and some knowledge, I don't just start taking shit, you know and as you shouldn't I don't either, I like doing deep dives before I do anything that I try and then there's a lot of confusion right like a lot of companies like the reason that it took myself and Dr. Tyler LeVarren who's a leading expert and arguably the world on molecular hydrogen and its physiological properties it took us seven and a half years to design our inhalation unit which is sitting at customs right now and when we were talking about exactly because most companies don't think about how it's actually working they see the studies that are being done by research teams and then they make something and they don't think am i making the same thing that's being used in the research there's this disconnect so typically well actually like all these other machines are using nasal cannulas and i've seen those with a constant flow yeah and uh before i get into hydrogen annihilation because most people like oh well i'm drinking hydrogen water why do i want to do hydrogen annihilation too what's the difference yeah Well, the difference is just distribution. Okay. Right? So hydrogen water is primarily getting into your gut. It's interacting with your microbiome. It's affecting these second messenger services in the gut, various hormones like GLP-1, ghrelin, and so on. And it is also getting into a very high concentration of the liver and it's driving liver homeostasis. So a large amount of hydrogen is actually metabolizing the liver. We don't yet know how, but it's leading to liver homeostasis. It's going to kind of affect on ghrelin. Sorry. I'm just curious. So a regulatory role. Okay. So actually, most people think of ghrelin, oh, that's a hunger hormone. Yeah. You don't want to raise ghrelin. Exactly. Right? That's actually not true, right? Ghrelin has a lot of purposes in our body. It's neuroprotective, but it regulates our glucose homeostasis and our insulin response. Actually, what you see in healthy people, when you're hungry, you have quite high ghrelin. Yeah. That's the hunger cycle. And then when you eat, it drops. It's nothing. But in chronically obese people, it's just kind of flat-lined in between. That's right. And something similar happens with GLP-1 too. It's similar to actually how insulin works. So hydrogen has shown to restore those peaks and valleys of gallin. Yeah. Now, with GLP-1, we showed in a rodent research where we induced obesity through a high-fat diet that what we know with GLP-1 in early phases of obesity is it goes into hyperdrive, trying to overcorrect, but then the feedback mechanism breaks, and then we don't get any GLP-1 secretion. It's just always chronically low. Yeah, that's right. The same thing with insulin response going into diabetes. So the hydrogen actually, and this is just in rats, right? So it's just in rodents, so not humans, but we actually attenuated the false rise in GLP-1 in inducing obesity, but yet the hydrogen group was the only one that resisted weight gain at the same time. How? So they ate less. Now we know that hydrogen is also affecting gallin, like I said, and also affecting some of the neurochemistry involved with satiety in the brain level. But then in humans, we looked at chronically obese people. Now I was an author on this paper and helped design the study and write the paper. And it was on the tablets, of course, all the ones I talk about are. But these were people who were chronically obese in middle age. Really? And we substantially increased their GLP-1 while also improving triglycerides and cholesterol and sleep. So we showed to attenuate the rise when you didn't want that overreaction rise and then restore function back to a healthy level in people with this metabolic stress. And something you said there because you said it really quickly, but you improved triglycerides, you improved blood markers. So we've seen that stuff too. Over and over again. So with the tablets, and again, as far as I'm aware, no other hydrogen water can say this, we have 21 validated structure function claims to FDA and FTC standards. So we've gone through this expert panel. We've gotten professors, you know, that are not attached to the company, that have reviewed the evidence, signed off that they've worked with our attorneys and understand all the regulations aside, and signed off on 21 structure function claims that the tablets do. These other technologies can't do that because they don't have the clinical research, the preclinical research, they haven't done it, and they aren't delivering the same concentration and dose. Their claim is just hydrogen water in general. It's a very general claim without it actually tying to the actual product. But people get a misunderstanding with how the regulations work with the FDA and FDC. They think it's unregulated. Now, actually, the U.S. dietary supplement, 21 CFR, is extremely detailed in what the regulations are. I know. It's just there's no enforcement. That's it. So it's an opt-in compliance system. So with the tablets, we have new dietary ingredient status with the FDA. We have GRAS status. We have opted into compliance in doing these expert panel reviews to get our structure function claims. and putting them through the proper channels. So it's an opt-into compliance system. Now, I believe that is by design because 99% of companies opt out of compliance. Now, what are the odds that the pharmaceutical industry is the most regulated and compliant in the world in the U.S. with the most rules and the highest barrier to entry, but yet the supplement industry has the least compliance? So they can say, look at these supplements. They don't do anything. That's right. So people, there's a misnomer. where people think that multinationals and companies don't want regulations. That's not true. They want inconsistent enforcement on regulations, and they want barriers to entry so that they can say, look at the Wild West. You can't trust any of this. Only we are following the rules. And now they've made the rules in these arbitrary manners that you need billions of dollars to be able to follow the rules. I am so glad you pointed that out, because I've been knowing that, but you said it so eloquently and put it out there in a way that a lot of times people get emotional when they talk about it if they know and they don't say it the way you said it. And it is set up in a way that they're always going to win. Yeah. And it's set up in a way that it is not enforced against you until you really become a mid-nine-figure company. That's right. At that point, you're looking, oh, my God, I'm going to go bankrupt figuring out all these regulations. I'm doing half a billion dollars a year and I can't figure this out. And now you sell your company to one of the multinationals. They take over everything you've done and you buy out and now they've controlled all of the supply chain and all the industry. And that's why they don't even try and innovate. Because they know when you hit that glass ceiling where you realize the complexity of the regulations and you just don't have the funds or the money to do it, you're going to lose control anyways. They're just going to buy you. And their inertia of everything they own is going to continue propelling them forward to create more layers of rules and regulations. Again, this isn't a conspiracy. This is will to power. It's everyone will do exactly what they need to do at any moment to benefit themselves. That's right. And so it's layers upon layers upon layers of billions of individual lobbying efforts. See, this is why when people call somebody a sellout or why did they sell this or that they don't truly understand why. Not everybody is a sellout and has this exit strategy. Sometimes it's like it's do this or. Or you're under. You lose everything. Exactly. And that's why I'm very careful about the comments I make anymore because you need to know before you say things like that. Because that's messed up to say without actually knowing what's going on. Yeah, 100%. And the more I study different fields, the more I learn. There's very few things in this world that are black and white. Everything is nuanced. Everything is complex. There is evil in the world, but it's far less common than we think. It is, and it's a lot easier to just say something that you feel as opposed to know. It's a way, way easier way out than looking into things and researching them and looking into them. See, people that think a lot, like you and I, we want to know the actualities of everything. And so we dig and we learn and we look at things. Probably more complex at times, but we uncover a lot more actual truths, which causes less stress and strain on your overall mentality, too, as you're working. Because you know. If you come to terms with the stone walls that exist within our nature, something Dostoevsky talked a lot about, like the stone wall, and that's what my second book is called. a lot of people when they come against these stone walls these innate truths about our existence humanity, ourselves ourself, right? They give up. Yeah. They give up but we need to learn to live with these stone walls to erect systems that account for them, right? We need to learn to build shelving on them and ladders to utilize them because these are facts of life that we can't get around you know, in a lot of the things I'm doing right now, all of these regulations that are built that are being weaponized against us, if we understand them well enough, we can weaponize those back against the very people because they have put us in this prison, but they are in the same prison. We just need to learn the rules of the game. Yeah. And the better we know these rules, we have the power. There's more of us. We need to learn to play their game and then we can beat their game and then we can take society back. We can undo some of these rules that solidify power into permanency. There's nothing wrong with power. What is wrong is when power becomes so protected that it calcifies into a cancer that destroys society. Power has a purpose and that purpose is protection and punishment. It's to keep order. is to keep us safe, right? It's to make us stronger. Coming back to something that is big for you, and I know we talked a bit that I was raised quite religious, but I'm agnostic now. But I do believe we need faith in something, right? Because when we face these stone walls, if we don't have faith in something, we give up. And my faith is in humanity. and I call it faith because if you look at the evidence the evidence suggests that we can't do better but I believe we can do better I believe we just need to understand better to have the right leaders that unite in a way believe that the reason we failed so often is either our societies emerged from chaos and people took advantage of that or were designed poorly, not accounting for human nature, so they collapsed that way. And I believe that real change actually has to happen from the groups that have never driven for real change. Those are people who already have wealth and power. Right? We always change from the actions of the youth. And the youth have no wisdom. Wild, isn't it? They burn down society because they're angry and they see what's wrong, rightfully so. But destruction without intent of a plan is chaos. And worse comes from chaos. And that's why people establish they don't want that chaos. They have that wisdom. But I believe things are getting bad enough today that enough people, and I'm not talking about like the architects at the top that are multi-generational wealth or really trying to take over the world. But I'm talking about enough successful people who have made it, who have wisdom, who are still disenfranchised with the world, who have children that they don't want their kids to grow up in the world in the direction it's having. We need to come together to use the rules that have been erected to attack us, to attack those attacking us. Not with violence, not with boots and bullets. within the law, within finance, within all these domains that our reality and the subjective nature of our reality is predicated upon. We need to turn the fight back against them using the rules. And so this is not sedition. This is not breaking any laws. This is playing the game that our society is built upon for better or worse. We play the game, we win the game, and then we rewrite the rules with the wisdom that we have on what it can be. Love that. I love that. All right. Let's talk about that inhalation just a little bit. Lots of tangents. It's my favorite part of the conversation of the tangents because I'm learning so much. But I do want to talk about this because it's so amazing the work you've done and I know there's a lot of parts to it and there's... I think first, though, just the understanding because you kind of started talking about... Oh, I did. And then I went on a tangent. So, like, yeah, the hydrogen water is getting into your gut. Right. It's interacting with your microbiome. Right. These second messengers or like secondary messengers, like in your gut to your brain, you know, these hormones. It's also restoring partial pressure of H2, you know, which abandons it. And that helps restore the microbiome, which is liver homeostasis, as I mentioned. Whereas inhalation is going to your lungs and then it's diffusing to your blood. It's rapidly circulating through your body. So it gets your brain at a higher capacity, it gets your skeletal tissue, your heart. So it isn't which is better. It's a, do you want an apple or an orange? You need both. Exactly. Yeah. Right? In some cases, maybe hydrogen water is going to help you better. In other cases, hydrogen elation. In others, you might want both of them. Right. Right? So for one, it's got certain benefits that the other doesn't. Right? So you don't need them both all the time. Right? depending on what's going on. Say for a certain, like, you know, hydrogen water doesn't really get to your brain. Yeah. But these hormones in your gut have neuroprotective. I would still do so work in a different way. Secondarily. Exactly. Okay. Right? I like to stack stuff so we can stack them together, right? Exactly. Okay. So with inhalation, I talked about these nasal cannulas and the constant flow. Now, those fundamentally do not understand our ventilation, how we breathe. Okay. So think about how a 90-year-old grandma with terminal lung cancer having a panic attack might be breathing. And then think about how a 300-pound bodybuilder practicing deep breathing might breathe. Right. And you expect a nasal cannula and a flow to deliver the same thing? It could be off by multiple exponents in what they're getting, right? because we're not breathing at a constant rate. We maybe breathe 15, 20 seconds out of a minute. Say we were doing deep breathing. Right. We might get a liter, two liters, three liters even, in a couple seconds of time. Now, we can do the math. Say there's a liter a minute coming at that constant volume divided by 60 That means the rest of what we breathing is diluted in the air around us All of a sudden we can be well below the minimum therapeutic threshold where hydrogen gas needs to be in our system to cause a physiological effect, or we could be over. Because what we know in the actual research is we do these precise dosings, both on animals and humans, and we know that in certain instances, 2% might work better than 4%. Another instance is 4% might work better. So right now with the machines on the market, we can't get a precision dosing. Every person is going to get a different dose and on every day, depending on how they're breathing. So we can't say that they're therapeutic. They could be sometimes, but not always for all people, right? Not the right dose always for all people. Second, the way most of these machines have overcome making sure that they're getting the minimum threshold is they make them more and more powerful. Right. Now, most of them produce hydrogen and oxygen under the false belief that this Brown's gas is better. And actually, we know it's not. As an athlete, you know you want hypoxic training. Right. That makes you stronger. And we know oxygen is damaging. So going higher in oxygen, that could help you for certain people with certain lung conditions. But for the average person, more oxygen is actually going to do you harm. Yeah. Right. most of the time, especially when it's done all the time. But anyways, they're ramping up the power on these machines. They're producing liters of hydrogen and oxygen. Well, that's an explosive mixture. Yeah. Right? 66% H2, 33%. O2. And we're already seeing the literature. This is published in the literature over 15 case reports of detonations when people are doing inside nasal pathways. pathways. It's blowing up, blowing people's nose apart, orbital bone fractures, burning people's lungs. So if this is reported in case reports like 15 times, how many times is it actually happening that people aren't reporting? Right? Really? So the questions we need to ask in therapeutics, the saying is safe and effective. It has to be safe and both effective. But that presupposes someone's financial intentions and valuation. Yeah. So what I say is something has to be safe and potentially effective, but it always has to be safe first, but it has to be potentially effective. And then we have a responsibility to give honest information to people so they can have informed consent and say, this is preliminary evidence. It might work, but we need more evidence. It costs this much. this is where the evidence is at. And now a person can decide if that amount of money is worth it for them, for the possibility. It's not proven. It's a chance. So we need that informed consent and we need to be honest about what products are doing. Like hydrogen is not proven to do anything. It has very promising evidence, but we need to know where the evidence stands to give people informed consent. Because this machine we have, it's like $5,000. By the way, that is less expensive than all the other machines that we're competing with on the market. And it costs us more to build our machine. But myself and Dr. LeBaron, he's in academia. I have enough money. We want more people to have access to this. But $5,000 is still a tremendous amount of money for a lot of people. For me, it's nothing. I'm like, okay, great. I really like the science. I want one. Of course, I'm going to buy it. For the next person, maybe they go, no, that's too much money for me. And I don't want to give that person that it's a lot of money false hope that it's going to cure their disease or do any of these things. They need to have informed consent. We are researching these things. There are studies. There are emerging studies. They're getting stronger every day, but it's not proven. And people need to understand that. A lot is not proven. How much is this money worth to you? Do you want to take the risk with the money for the chance? Understand where the evidence is at. For the potential benefit that you could get out of this. Like you may not. You may not. And you need to understand that going into it. Exactly. So we developed this machine. It took us seven and a half years because we had to figure out all these things. We wanted to make sure that we were delivering a precise concentration to all people and that it was always safe. Right. And you're not blowing up noses and ordu bones and anything else. So we know that hydrogen is not flammable or explosive below 4%. Right. We know that the research actually explores between 1% to 4% of the fraction of inspired H2. So any nurse or doctor that especially works in ER knows what fraction of inspired O2 is. We need to know how much oxygen is actually getting into the system, not just with the flow rate. The fraction of what someone is inspiring is that concentration. So we need to ensure this fraction of inspired H2. to know that whether it's a 90-year-old grandma with lung cancer having a panic attack or a 300-pound healthy bodybuilder practicing deep breathing, that they are getting the same precise concentration with every breath. And we ask the questions, how do we do this? Because nobody's doing anything like this. So our machine, first off, is pulling in air and filtering it through a HEPA filter. So it's cleaner air than the room you're in. And we're making our H2. and the H2 is variable. So you can set it based on the power that will go to the membrane, and it can be 1%, 1.1, 1.3, 2.2, 2.8, 3.2, all the way up to 4. So by 0.1 variabilities. Now it's a closed system. They mix and they go into an inflatable bag made of silicone that has a 3-liter capacity. And we actually had to design a custom mask to make this work because we need to make sure that it's a closed system. Yeah. That you are only getting your breath from this precise concentration of the machine. So when you inhale, everything from that silicone bag that's been pre-mixed to that precise concentration comes through a one-way valve into a full-phase mask. And then you exhale, and there's another one-way valve, and it comes out the top. And that way the CO2 isn't coming back into the machine. Yeah. Germs aren't going back into the machine. like bacteria and such, but also the precise concentration you set it for is what you're getting every breath. And because of these elegant solutions we figured out, a lot of our competitors I think are cheapest large-scale competitors, about $7,000. Some of them are like $33,000. They go crazy in price, and they're all using this constant flow that's potentially explosive. Right? So scary. We're 5,000. And we did that because at the end of the day, again, Dr. LeBaron has never endorsed a product before. He's been in hydrogen for 16 years. He only came on as chief scientific officer because we agreed on the ethics and intent of the company. I make a lot of money from the hydrogen tablets. You know, I have 100 labels that license off of me, and it's growing every day, and I have other businesses involved in it. I believe that money is not the end. It is just a tool. It is a tool to spread what you want to spread. It's a tool to use towards your purpose. I think we have perverted that in our minds to think that money is the end. But money is imaginary. It's meaningless. The only thing it is good for, it is as an exchange for true wealth. And what is true wealth? True wealth is resources. It's natural resources. It's manufactured resources. And it's human resources. And we live in this society where we sacrifice the real, we betray the real in pursuit of the fake. But the fake, we just need to use as a tool to lift up the real, to benefit the real. So I think about what I want. I want a stronger society. I want people to be healthier. I want people to be happier. And I want, you know, of course, I have my own aspirations. I want people to trust me. Yeah. Right? Because the second we betray people, that's our reputation. It's gone forever. Right? Yeah. So I try and structure everything that I do from a business standpoint to consider resources, you know, particularly the human resources in relationship. What is going to create value? Yeah. What is going to help people? And the more people I help, the more people are going to help me. That's right. Credibility is, that's the foundation of what I built everything I do on. Yeah. without it you have nothing you can have all the money in the world and if you have no credibility or integrity you literally are the brokest individual on the plane you're always running it's right always unhappy always always always always and and one thing i do want to say is you pointed out these companies that do this that they're not safe because they they live under this more is always better concept and that's how they trick other people and i really want to say i know a lot of these companies i've talked to them I don't think they're bad people. I think they don't understand. Yeah. And that's one of the biggest problems is most of these companies are all marketers. That's it. You know, they read the science, they get excited. Maybe they try it and they think it works for themselves. And then they just hit the ground running and they don't slow down to think, how does this work? Why does this work? How do I do this properly? You know how many years I've seen that like in like research chemical company sites that they pop up every day. and they come and they go like nightclubs because they don't understand how it works and what they're doing. So they just disappear. All they see is a profit margin that really doesn't exist because they're not looking at any other business aspect that goes into it. They're looking at raw materials and nothing else. No marketing, no website, no nothing, right? And that's what some of the people I assume that you're seeing. And some of them may say, wow, this is the most amazing thing. it could change some lives, but then they see dollar signs and they say, well, we'll just make it this way and cut this corner and do that, and then before you know it, you're killing people or hurting them, you know? And it's dangerous ground, man. It's dangerous. It really is. And I see this big problem that we have in society that there is, and in so many domains, there's two extremes that people fall into. People go, oh, well, you know, this is crazy. And it is when big corporations own their scientists and they tell their scientists what to do and want to research and prove our perspective. And that's not how science and the truth works. But then you get the opposite side, where companies are adversarial with science. And they think it's, oh, no, no, no, that's all corrupt. I know what works, right? Yeah, that's... And that's bullshit, too. Realistically, good ethical business should have a friendship with science. They should be guided by science. I agree. And scientists want to work with companies who have a dedication to integrity and the truth because that makes them happy. They want their discoveries out there. They want things to be used the way they're researching it. So when you follow the science, when you do things how it's done in the science with integrity, those scientists help you. They become your friends and they lift you up because you're lifting their research up. That's right. I knew we were going to talk a long time so I want to make sure before we have to go that we talk about your food app because that's a big thing to me too personally. A lot of the work I've been doing now with some pretty big people you've seen it all nameless for now because all the stuff's coming but I've been doing a lot of work on improving our food helping people understand what's actually in our food and I've been tasked with a lot of people that are suffering, man. You know that. And so I take this very personal. When you told me about this, I want to make sure everybody has an opportunity to understand just how deep you're going on this and the impact you're trying to make. Yeah, absolutely. And I want to say, first off, so I jumped onto this company when they approached me. So it was founded by a friend of a friend. Okay. And they connected. So they came to me for advice on getting into this industry. And they asked for half an hour of my time. And I work like 110 hours a week. I'm like, yeah, I'll give you half an hour. Then we talked for a couple hours. And I was so fascinated by what they were doing. But they had never been in this space or learned how do we approach people with influence? How do we do this? And so I gave them advice. I didn't ask for anything. But then I was like, man, I really love this. and so I contacted them. I'm like, are you looking for investors? I would like to invest in this. They're like, actually, we wanted to talk to you. Would you be willing to come on as a strategic advisor? And I'm like, absolutely, right? So it's an app and they've been working on it, I think a couple of years before they contacted me. So it was getting ready to go. And basically, you'll be able to go into your grocery store. We're actually just sort of the testing now, right? Scan, you know, food. Now, it's only going to be maybe 5,000, 10,000 products at the start. There's half a million, but they're high exactly. Every month we're going to be putting like a third of our budget towards testing. But you'll be able to scan a food item, and it'll come up. If it doesn't come up with the test results, it'll say if there's, you know, seed oils or GMOs, if there's certain dyes or, you know, chemicals that are banned in the EU or Singapore or Hong Kong. You know, say what levels are in them and what the threshold is in other jurisdictions so that you can make informed consent. But the thing we're doing that other apps aren't doing is we are doing testing. So we're testing for heavy metals. We're testing for pesticide residue. We're testing for microplastics and PPA. We're testing for PFAS. We're testing for all these things so that you can see what the actual levels are. And now we're sitting on some explosive data. I can't get too much into it. It could be a big PR push. But we tested a number of organic baby food products. I'm not going to name brands. but seven of them had more glyphosate than Froot Loops. You're shitting me. Organic ones. Organic. I think there's going to be big cloud-sagrant lawsuits coming out from this testing we're doing. So I jumped on. I have been very passionate about this project, and I don't even know what percentage I own it. It's only a few percent, right? We have some big, big names on track, but I've been dedicating hours a week to this because it's just something I think needs to happen. and it's again when we talk about weaponizing the rules against those harming us, this is one thing. There's some good things happening, don't get me wrong. There's some change that's occurring, you know, especially on like state levels, a little bit on the federal. But at the end of the day, it's one term and not as much is happening as it needs to be happening. No, it'll never go as far as that we need. Because the lobbying efforts to stop it are too big. But they are all bound to that shareholder privacy. We talked about it. So if this app comes out and we're going to be scoring brands and corporations based on their total portfolio of you, so you'll be able to say, oh, you know, how's Kellogg doing against Nestle, you know, like in these scores? Well, that's going to affect their bottom line, their share prices. You know, especially when we have these various influencers that all have millions and millions of followers that are posting the results and showing what's going on here. Well, now people are going to change what they're buying, their buying habits based on this data and this knowledge. Now their fiduciary duty at these corporations is going to be to clean up their fucking act. And we know they can do it in places like Hong Kong and Singapore and the EU. So they're going to do it here in America. And we're going to force it by attacking their pocketbooks. Right. That is how you get that is how you get change. Yeah. Right. So I've spent way more time on that app than I should have from a financial standpoint. I helped to secure a couple million dollars from ISO certified lab and testing. I've got some big names on it. But it's something I believe in because this is the type of rebellion that I want to see. Rebellion within the confines of the law. But you're ensuring the accuracy of this. By a third-party ISO certified lab. Dude, it is, I mean, I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your money and what's worth it and what's not, but this is well worth it. It is because of the amount of people, and you know this, and it pisses me off and I'm sorry, but the amount of people that needlessly suffer daily and the accumulation of shit that kills people at a young age and all the diseases that goes on, that is simply because of what's put in our food unethically and knowingly. knowingly is the biggest problem even unknowingly is bad but knowingly this needs to happen we're going to be doing something else because I think this is apolitical I think it transcends and we know that this has been an issue on the right so I was sort of thinking I don't want to alienate the left they're suffering too and so we started doing some thinking and some research into this and there's been actually a substantial amount of research that a lot of these multinational corporations, when their lots fail, right, they fail specs, they will find a jurisdiction, maybe a state with lower regulations, and they'll ship them to low-income neighborhoods. And so we are going to be doing head-to-head testing, like a Whole Foods in Malibu versus like a rural, you know, low-poverty neighborhood in Mississippi, right, and shorten them side-by-side because this needs to change. I love everything that you're doing, but that hits my heartstring a little more. You know what I mean? Like, that's where I'm at. I love it. There's apps that show, like, you know, things that are in foods and this and that, but you're going a whole different step. Oh, yeah. We want to know, right? Yeah. And you know what? We're doing another thing, too, because when you know industry, you know that you're going to get some, like, really false results. So, you know, we know this. We want to be fair. We don't want to just attack corporations because we might get an extreme result that isn't normal for their product. Right. They might have 20 manufacturing facilities across the country pumping out five lots each per day. You know, so it might be an outlier. That's right. So we'll have a program that if they think the results are abnormal, they can pay for the testing and test random lots off the market through our lab until it hits statistical significance. I love it. And then the average is posted. so that we get, but we can't afford to pay for 100 tests on that. So the major corporation can, but then they clear their name. And now we know where that product stands from a statistical significance. Well, if it's that or sport and they'll pay for the test and prove it. Exactly. So we want to give them that option. We want to be fair to them. Yeah, absolutely. You'll be able to tell a lot the reaction that comes from somebody that has a score. You know, if it was me and I was like, hell no, that is not possible, I'd be the first one to call you and say, let's do this. Yeah. And we'll say, we hope you're right. Yeah. We hope we got a bad loss. Because at the end of the day, we just want better product. We don't want a fear bonger. We just want better products in the market. Yeah, absolutely. All right, man. So we've got a book. We got the badass app that I'm freaking out about over here. We got the tablets, the hydrogen tablets. We got the inhalation system. I haven't even talked about the AI that we talked about that I'm developing. and disrupt the real estate app, that can be saved for another time. Oh, that's part two because I already knew we'd have to do that. You've got a lot going on, my friend, but what I will say is it is super impactful with what I find beyond commendable and appreciative, not just for me, but I'm sure everybody that I could speak for. But I love not just your intellect because that goes without saying, But I think it's where your heart is that I really like the most that you pair that with the intellect and you use your gifts in the way that they were supposed to be used. And for me, and I think for everybody, I want to highlight that and give you the appreciation that you deserve. Thank you. And, you know, I did. I write about it in my book. I don't think I can take credit for it. I think the chaos and catastrophe I went through forced me down this path. I think there are countless people that have high intellect and high integrity, high ethics morality that give up. Yeah. That they fall into depression because they think they can't change the world. And I think we need to wake those people up. Yeah. I agree. 100%. So I'll link all of this for us, for you in the description. But tell me or tell the audience where the best places to follow you and some places they can go get some of this cool stuff. Yeah. so I have my personal site alexcarnava.com same on social medias I've been doing a lot of content recently I'm not a big social media guy but I want to get my message out so it's kind of like an evil I have to dabble into type of thing but what I'm going to say with the book now the hardcover I have to charge for obviously it's a lot to print but again I'll say and this is just more I want my ideas out there so I'm actually paying a tremendous amount of money to try and get my ideas out there right now. So I don't want to make money off that. I want them out there. So don't think you have to buy my book. It's free as a PDF on my website and it's free as an audio book on my website. Now, if you do want the hard copy, it's almost done setting up, but I have a non-profit I'm setting up and all the money will go to that non-profit and all funds will be used to advertise for the book. So no revenue will go my way. Because at the end of the day, I just want the messages out there. Oh, man. Beautiful. And then the inhalation machine and the tablets, where can we get those? So the inhalation machine is Inhale H2. We'll get a link and offer a special. I'm not that involved on the business side, so I've got to get my team involved there. The tablets, there's about 100 brands that distribute them. We list some of them on my licensing website, which is hydrogenwatertablets.com. So you can see some of the brands there. But, you know, some of the bigger ones would be like Dr. Mercola, Dr. Gundry, H2Tab from Gary Bratka, Dr. Amon's BrainMD, Symbiotica, Quicksilver Scientific. It's awesome. Very cool. There's some good companies that I know, and Dr. Gundry's a friend of mine, good people. And then the app, lastly, when's that coming out? So we just started testing last week. I am hoping January, but I have my weekly call next week with the managing director. I think sometime in January or February it will come, but it's Verifoods. So V-E-R-I-Foods.com. We'll talk about that. So go to the website, sign up for the early access. We're going to be doing some cool things on the app. Like there will be like an affiliate. It's going to be a subscription. But say if there's something you really want to test, you'll be able to pay for the test on that item and then get a lifetime free subscription to use it. We're going to do community voting. So we don't want to designate what products are important to people. You can go on and upvote what product you want to see the results are, tell your friends, get it to upvote, get them to donate $5 or something to words. So we're going to be doing everything on a priority basis based on what people want tested. that's sweet man I'm looking forward to it I'll help you with all of this but especially with that so you just let me know I'm happy to get involved with that so like I said man thank you for coming to see me thank you for the conversation the intellect and I think more than anything you gave people some hope and belief that there are good people out there doing really good things and that we can all find that within us and really make a difference. And the reason I have faith in this is because we are a community. We are a humanity. That is how we evolved. So we know that it came from that symbiosis. From that we worked together. That's how we all competed, you know, other hominids. We worked together. We were a community. We've lost track of that. So we need to wake up and remember where we came from so that we can get back on track to where we need to be. I love it, man. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. Like I said, we're going to certainly have to do this again at some point. And I think we already knew that going into it. So, all right, everybody, that wraps up another one. I hope you enjoy this and really take it to heart and take a lot from it. So stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli and Alex Tarnava signing off. if you'd like to work together before garage で some cool thought