Hater Season: Victoria Song & Alex Cranz

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And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host, Ed Zitron. buy a t-shirt subscribe to the premium newsletter pledge yourself to the zitrons graveyard smash and this is of course hater season and we're joined by two of the greatest haters to ever do it victoria's song of the verge hello and i hate things that's right and of course alex alex crans and that's just i'm kidding that's that is just me flawlessly saying the word alex i hated it that was the worst pronunciation of my name ever but i think it works for the for the show today. It works for the show and also people say my name wrong all the time, so I need to get one wrong. Zytron, right? Ed Zytron? Zytron. Zytron. Ed Zytron. Zytron is the most, that one I'm just like, do you pronounce everything like the word hi? Anyway, Victoria, we'll start off with you because you told me beforehand you hate the word wellness. I'd love to understand why. We have to start with like a soul cleansing breath like they do in those wellness studios. that you sometimes get yoga in. But yeah, so normally my beat is wellness and health, not wellness, wearables and health tech. And that is increasingly now being co-opted by the word wellness, which is, Nina is sometimes a grift. And so my job has become someone who, it's changed from someone who evaluates technology to someone who is like, is this snake oil? Oh my God, it's snake oil. Let me explain why it's snake oil. Oh, they want your piss and your pee and everything is dystopian. And oh, MAGA is involved now. Okay. Well, Maha. And just all the news on my beat is just like, okay, what if we didn't? What if we didn't go like a full 60 miles per hour, zero to 60 into snake oil? What if we didn't do that? What if we didn't do that? What if we didn't do that? What if we didn't take advantage of the fact that our healthcare system is shit and people have a lot of health anxiety and when they go to doctors, they don't feel listened to? That, you know, we could actually get proper medical care in this country and not rely on big tech who wants to monetize you and your ailments with the guise of being an alternative to actual doctors with medical training. Is it that they want to just use us all as little parts in their expense reports? Let me take that back. Is it because they just want to make money off of us? Yeah. Or is it because they can't read science literature and they don't know what they're selling? It's all of it. Why not both? It's all of it. It's just all of it. All of it all at once. There's just so many examples of it happening, and it feels like it's ramping up to the point where I feel insane. So like when I was on your show at CES, I was talking about gray market peptides and how people are injecting themselves with unapproved retitrutide, which is a not yet approved drug. But they're buying it off or they're buying what they say is retitrutide off of TikTok and all of these gray market sellers. And I'm just like, I'm like fairly certain that what you're getting is not actually retitrutide based on like, I don't know how drug production works. because I've talked to pharmacists and interviewed people. Also, generally, it feels like random people on TikTok are not usually able to access things of this nature, like just a random person walking around. Just generally speaking, if nurse practitioners are real, registered nurses are, there's all these different types of nurse categories, and some of them are legitimate. and have a lot of, you know, they're able to prescribe medicines. They're able to talk you through those things. And some of them are like little Sally Jo Johnson from some place who just put a lot of letters after her name and is actually like a wellness guru. But she's saying like, based on the science and the research, and I can tell she has not done the science and the research because when she is reconstituting a peptide, she has not disinfected her hands while she rolls the stuff on her very dirty kitchen counter. which are videos that I've seen. Videos I've seen. Yeah. I was just going to say, I'm upset that you're talking about my primary care physician that way. Like, she works really, really hard to give me all sorts of things that I know are real and not salt water, and I inject them into my body. I look and feel great. I haven't been insured since, you know, a Democrat was in power. I mean, what's the problem here? I mean, there's a lot of problems here, not least the grifters. Like there are real people online who are medical professionals, nurses, doctors, pharmacists who are giving decent medical information. I only know which one's decent, though, because I do this for a living. I think if you're the average person, you can see a lot of stuff together. And some of it is true, and it's put next to stuff that is not true. And so by then, it looks a lot smarter. I'm trying out this thing in my newsletter, Optimizer. It's not called this, but I think of them as wellness marketing report cards. And I just did AG1, which you've heard on every podcast ad known to man. I don't know what it is. I was like, is Better Off Line brought to you? You've never heard of Athletics Greens? It's AG1. It's a greens powder. Oh, yeah. It's like a green powder. Is that bollocks? yes uh basically uh would you like your pp to be expensive because that's what it's a supplement made from like a proprietary blend of ground up vegetables and some buzzwords like adaptogens and all that and that doesn't does it not even give you the nutritional benefits of vegetables i mean it i mean the fiber content is like two grams of fiber for a serving which is not that much fiber honestly yeah i feel like you could get more fiber from that but you know like i'm I'm not saying that if you want to drink your daily greens because it's going to get you in the habit and the mindset of doing something healthier for yourself later on in the day, there's no harm with that. But if you go to their research page and their marketing site, they're going to say the next generation of AG1 is clinically backed. What does that mean? Clinically backed does not mean what you think it means. Not for a supplement. Do you know what a supplement is? Not regulated by the FD fucking A. It's not regulated. well first of all would Hugh Jackman lie to me because yes Hugh Jackman fucking lied to you because he's tap dancing on the AG1 fucking things he's saying superfood do you know what superfood is it's a marketing label it's not a scientific term it's a marketing label all it means is a nutrient it's a nutrient dense food that's all that that means it's a marketing label I hate wellness no but this is the thing it's like So number one doctor recommended brand means nothing, I'm guessing. Which doctors? Real doctors? Victoria, so- Dr. Huberman? Dr. Huberman's not- Don't trust Dr. Huberman. You know, I had a- That is actually the guy on there. No, I had a doctor who said, Hey, have you listened to the Huberman podcast? And guess what I did? I fired them. As in, I found a new doctor. I didn't say you're fired. But I was like, I can't trust you if you believe that man who just basically Also partners with AG1 To make AGZ Which is like a sleep thing And it's just Okay Look Okay So I went through I went through their clinical studies Their quote unquote clinical studies What did you say? Was it good? Here's the thing When you have a drug Or a medical treatment It goes through clinical trials To make sure it's efficacious and safe And to find out what the efficacious dose is This is a supplement it is not regulated this is not required so they're just doing voluntary clinic clinical studies to show marketing because it's like hey guess what we saw an improvement in the gut microbiome and all this other shit which is like again your your gut is your second brain your gut and your brain talk to each other it can affect your condition and your mood if you don't have the proper amount of gut bacteria in there that we have research saying this okay and so they're going, well, we got strains of probiotics in AG1. Now, this is the original formula because their website is very, very trickily laid out. And so I go there and I go like, okay, let me look at this peer research. You look at the graphs in this peer research that's linked there. Well, first of all, the sample size is 20, like what, 30 people? Negligible. Negligible. No, but just for the sake of argument, how many people do you generally want in a clinical trial? Statistically, like 105 or so, like 100 people, we sometimes see that in a clinical trial. You want as many people that will be statistically significant for the population that you're studying. So you need a ton of people, different races. 30 people is not significant. 30 people is not significant. What is the population they're selling to? Everyone who might have tummy problems. Oh, I was like, if it's like dumbasses who exclusively get their medical advice from commercials on their Instagram and TikTok feeds. That's still a higher population than 30 people to be sick. I was hoping it was a small population. I'm losing the ability to speak. I can't say statistically because I'm so mad. Listen, okay? I couldn't say Alex. I go through their little study. You have to go through the methodology. They're saying double blind, placebo controlled. Okay, that's great. gold standard sure whatever 30 people let me look at the graphs you know what's the graphs of the placebo and the pre and post ag1 use usage statistically the bars are the same is the change in the gut microbiome in the room with us no it's not nothing oh they pooped a little more well i should hope so if you have fiber if you want to here's the thing if you want if you want to like have a better gut just have some greek yogurt in the morning it changed my life Oh, you know what killed me? You want to kill me? You want to kill me? The line that said there was like an increase in these two strains of probiotics because it's an ingredient in AG1. Wait, so they increased, they measured something that they were adding. Okay. Yes. That's like saying we found corn in your poop because you ate corn. That's so cool. I, that's the thing I get targeted with these like mushroom coffee things or melatonin coffees or sleep coffee, like weird hot chocolate shit on it. There was a period when that was all they targeted me with and it didn't do shit. Like I do, I refuse to do it. I'm not paying $30 for like five hot chocolates. Go fuck yourself. It's disgusting. Yeah. I spent $4 on biotin and it didn't do anything for my nails. So I do get it. Here's the thing. supplements are not regulated. So is the supplement that you're actually getting actually the supplement in an efficacious amount? I don't fucking know. I took 10,000 milligrams a day. If it's a proprietary blend, like AG1 uses proprietary blend, you don't know how much of each thing is in there. You just don't. You don't. Listen, if you're going to have greens powder because you want to kickstart your day and you want to have a healthy habit to start your day with, go off, queen. I love that for you. But to call it clinically backed, I find disingenuous. And I see this happen a lot in wellness. It's always there. They are the ones that backed the study, right? Like we see this a lot. They did pay for the study. They paid for it. That's also good. All the fake mates said, we're going to be the healthiest. We're going to be the best. We're going to be so good for you. And I was like, oh, who did the study? We did. Oh, did you do any studies that you didn't directly pay for? No. I want to be fair. They did publish in peer-reviewed journals. And nine out of ten times you are going to see people at least partially fund the study because it's very hard, especially in this climate, to get research funding for a truly independent peer-reviewed study that's third-party that has no affiliation with the company at all. That's, you know, it's good to look at it holistically with making sure they have really good methodology and, you know, that their findings make fucking sense based on their marketing. So, like, if they were to be super honest about what they found, it would be like, you're not going to die from having AG1, and there's a potential that you might see some benefit. Well, I'm reading here that- That's what it is. What is a nutritional gap? Because it claims that there is a nutrient, it helps. They demonstrated a statistically significant and positive impact on closing common nutrient gaps. This just means you didn't have enough of the nutrient? Yes. So it's like you didn't even know for your broccoli? So this is what else pisses me off. So that marketing site is just like the next gen of AG1 is clinically backed. And then you scroll all the way down to the peer-reviewed studies. And you're like, oh, look, look at these published peer-reviewed studies. That is for the old formula of AG1. And all those statistics that you just saw on that, that's for the new formulation of AG1. Guess how many peer-reviewed published studies they have on that? Zero. because they only have abstracts that have been presented. And like abstracts, like I'm going through the abstracts and it's just like the sample sizes. I think the largest sample size is like 120 people, but most of them are like 24 people who are healthy. So it's kind of like FDA approval grift in wearables. Okay, first of all, wearables are not FDA approved. They are FDA cleared because we approve drugs. What's the difference? All right, no, Victoria got explained, sorry. Because it's a marketing thing. Basically, you're just saying that it's adhered to a certain degree of safety and protocols. So yes, you're going to be HIPAA compliant if your FDA cleared. You are going to have done some testing to make sure it's safe. And you only require this kind of clearance for class, I believe, class two medical devices or higher. Class two means intermediate risk. class 3 is just like there's a significant risk in using this and class 1 is like a tongue depressor so you have some class 1 medical devices that are like the little stick that the doctor sticks in your mouth when you go like that's a class 1 medical device in some cases and those are just FDA listed like class 1 FDA listed, class 2 FDA cleared and then you have stuff like drugs which must be FDA approved so there is like a nuance to those particular meanings but with wearables to get the clearance process it for stuff like screening right So like you get an AKG and it says, we're not diagnosing you with atrial fibrillation, but homeboy, maybe go to a doctor and see if these things make sense. That is a cleared, generally an FDA cleared feature. because it's either a class, that's a class two feature, basically is what they're saying. Now, if you don't want to do that because it's a very expensive process, you just go, it's wellness. Wellness isn't regulated because it's for your information only. Education is fun. So whoop, a couple of months ago, they had this blood pressure feature that they came out and the way that this feature looked, it looked like it was telling you your systole and your diastolic and your systolic reading and telling you whether your blood pressure was high, medium, or low. And the FDA was like, ha ha, no, you did not go through the clearance process for this. You're telling people what their blood pressure is. And we was like, ha ha, no, this is a wellness feature. It's just for your education. This wasn't meant to give you a reading. And the FDA was like, it kind of looks like a reading. It kind of looks like you're giving on diagnostic judgment. So that needs to go through the clearance process. And then Whoop was like, ha ha, we disagree, innovation. Yeah, and so then I just read a story on Politico today that Aura, the smart ring maker, is now lobbying in Washington to get a third category of devices, like a separate third category of classification called digital health screeners that wouldn't go through the very cumbersome clearance process. but would be more legit than wellness. So, yeah. That makes sense, though. I don't know that. Because, like, with the aura ring. I don't know that that's going to make things clearer or easier. I don't know. No, like, I think for the customer, for the consumer, we need a total radical rethinking of all of this because it's gotten complete, like, the plot. I think that these. I think for the companies making a third device that's like, here are things that can identify but should never, ever be taken by themselves, should always be used in context with the doctor, like the Oura Ring or the Whoop band for blood pressure. I'm like, that kind of makes sense. It's just the line is already blurry. I'm not hating enough. No, I feel like we're hating. The line is already blurry between wellness. What is a wellness? Like, the blood pressure, not the blood pressure, the blood oxygen reading on your Apple Watch. What is that? Is that FDA cleared? Or is that a wellness? I think that anything that measures your body should have to be far more rigorously checked, because I have a different reading on my Oura Ring, my Apple Watch, my headphones. Everything seems different. If I was relying on this information for anything other than punishing myself, I would be very worried. Like if I was sick in some way. Oh, yeah. Also, this whole Oura being able to check if I'm sick thing, it has never caught it. It has once. It caught when I was really depressed once. I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh at that. What did he say? I was hysterical. No, I got a note. I'm in bed at 2 o'clock in the afternoon because, you know, depressed, sleeping. And I get a note, and it's like, oh, you're having major symptoms. I'm like, yeah, no shit, Sherlock. I haven't gotten out of bed today. Thank you for joining. But it just said my temperature was fine. It caught when I was coming down with something once, and then it caught when I was incredibly anxious. another time. I was just like, oh, you think I'm sick? Well, I'm sick with anxiety. I'm just alive. I'm just breathing. I loved it when it was like, no, you're deathly sick. And I'm like, no, I'm just depressed. But honestly, thank you. Thank you for seeing depression as an illness or a ring. You were just like sick in the brain. It wasn't intentional. You were sick in the brain. Then I got out of bed. That's great. Yeah, but that was because it said you needed to stand up. Pretty much. I got the text and I was like, time to get out of bed. Every time I see that note being like, you need to stand up, I genuinely want to fuck off. Every time. How dare you? My ass goes where my ass... I never stand up. No. I'm currently standing up because I've been sitting too long. But again, this is my beat. So, yay. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. 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I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the case of Lucy Letby we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was no voicing of any skepticism or doubt it'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong listen to Doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Anywho, wellness really f***ing pisses me off This chat GPT health thing as well, like I just think that these companies should be in prison all of them for doing that stuff. The AI companies using these things as promises to help you get healthier mentally, physically, and everything in between is such garbage. Because let me tell you something. You know what I've been doing for a while now? I've been messing with these AI guys. I love to have a chat with them. I love to be like, hey, this is what's going on in my life. How are we doing? How are you feeling? You're talking to the chat bot in this case? Oh, yeah. Always in the incognito mode. so that it only saves a little bit of it. And then every time it tells me to do something, and when I go back and tell it the next time in chat, it's forgotten, and I love it. Highly recommend incognito mode. But it's terrible advice. The advice is consistently terrible. The advice is consistently like, treat yourself better. And it's like, I haven't gotten out of bed in three days. And it's like, you're doing okay. I mean, I've gotten out of bed in three days. Doing great. But you'd say something really extreme like that, of clearly you're not doing okay. And it's like, hey, it happens to all of us. You just sit in bed for another week. And you're like, Claude? No. Claude, what are we doing? That's bad advice. It's also just the kind of shit advice you could get from literally anyone. Oh, I hadn't thought about feeling better when I felt sad. I've been deliberately feeling sad more because I thought that's what would make me feel better. Thank you, ChatGPT. It's just fucking bad. And then when you ask it, you ask it for, you're like, okay, I want to work on my fitness. V gives much better advice than Claude every single time. Like, V, that's what your optimizer, like, fancy line should be. I don't know what those are called. Tagline? But it needs to just be, yeah, tagline. Your tagline needs to be better advice than Claude or OpenAI when it comes to help. Well, did you see the ChatGPT ad for running? when it was like, no, it was like, here's some running advice. And one of it's like, run with someone else so you're accountable. Run three times a week. It's like, fucking hell. I'm so glad we are spending $50,000 of GPU on this bullshit. There was a... Yeah, I was like, you can just get that by Google. There was a Wall Street Journal article about Runa, which is, they market themselves as an AI-powered running app and they were acquired by Strava last year. If you're on Running Talk at all, you've probably seen people talk about Runa. It's massively popular. And the Wall Street Journal article was hilarious because it's like, people are getting injured using this because they just listen to the AI. And like, I've used Runa and I have a very hard time sticking with that app because I find the program way too aggressive. So they came out with like a new mode that's like, hey, we made it less aggressive because a lot of you were getting injured and complaining. And I was like, haha, it's almost like, to use Rana properly, you also have to know when to ignore it, which is not the point of what they say AI should be. So, I also hate AI in fitness! Well, I mean, it's also like, the thing with fitness is, even with a good routine, even with a good, like, I have had to, I did the same routine for a year, I've had to pare it back, because I kept getting injured, because I'm getting older. Like, you actually have to be able to, like, know when your body feels... That's the worst part of it. Is, yeah, you want it to be like a trainer. And it can talk to you like a trainer. Yeah, it can pretend to be one. It can give you that things. But the trainer is going to go, hey, I noticed you went really hard today and your knee's inflamed. Maybe take a break for the rest of the week. A bad trainer will be like, no pain, no gain. I've had trainers do that to me before. But AI is always going to be a bad trainer. Yeah. Because it's not going to see it, right? I mean, they keep saying that they're going to make it better. I've yet to test an AI coach that I feel would give me the advice that I actually need. I have to sit there with myself and be like, oh, how are we feeling today in our body? Where are we feeling pain? Should I push it? I could push it. But what's my goal? You know, I got to have this conversation with myself in my head. How many of these constantly? AI coaches that you see are like actually programmed from the ground up to help with this. and how many are just large language models with, like the Aura one, right? Where it's just kind of like the large language model with a little bit of fanciness slapped on it. So you're like, oh, I'm not getting it. Most of them are just Captain Obvious book report summaries. They're just prompts though, because you can't really, for you to do a trainer that was a specialized LLM, you would have to have a shit ton of words. Oh, they're all so fucking chatty too. I'm just like, Jesus Christ, You need to give me several less paragraphs about, like, I don't need this shit. And then you'll tell them, like, please stop being so chatty. Please be more concise. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay, got it. Two prompts later, just an 800-word essay about your fitness. They hear you, and they want to gently push back on your plans for your exercising routine. I just— Well, I mean, the best— I never get that. We have different AIs, clearly, but, like, it's just— Well, I just— Claude's so nice. Fuck, Lord. I refuse to let them be nice to me. I say they are not allowed to be complimentary beyond 1%. I'm only allowed to get 1% of complimenting from these dipshit bots. I'm using incognito mode. It remembers nothing. Right. It is incredible. So you'll tell it anything. It's going to forget from the next time. So you never program it. So Claude is always just like, hey, friend, I'm just like that one person who just sort of smiles and nods at you a lot. That's not very helpful. I love it. I mean, I don't. For that. It's not very helpful, no. I don't love it from a usefulness standpoint. I love it as a sociological experiment. Does that make sense? I guess. It makes more sense. I love to play with it and kind of be like, oh, what are you trying here? What are you hoping to accomplish? But nine times out of 10, it does not actually help me. Every time I've had AI try to help me with fitness, try to help me with sleeping better, try to help me with writing. Garbage, garbage. Because you're always getting regressed to the mean. And when it comes to health, well, we're going to go against the wellness versus the medical thing again. Because if they're giving you diagnostic advice, they could be liable for that. So they're only going to give you the most generic regression to the mean wellness advice that applies to everyone and is common sense. And it's like, well, if it's common sense, well, I didn't fucking need you to tell me it's common sense. That's why a lot of the AI fitness is just regurgitated book reports. It's the AI going like, hey, girl, you ran 3.1 miles today in this time. That's faster than your other time. And yay, that's not what I need from you. Thank you, Pablo. My cat is screaming at me. But yeah. Yeah, I just, I would never tell these things anything about myself. I just like, I've naturally, my autism screener built into my brain just refuses. It's just like I cannot trust. I would never tell a website my secrets. I get that. I get that. And sometimes I just do. No, that's fine. I'm not a secret. And I'm like, you know what? Let's hope you never leak the incognito mode stuff. Let's hope you're real. Yeah, but you're also in your incognito mode, unless you're just like, I'm Alex Kranz. Let me tell you my life story. Yeah, every single time I'm like, hi, my name's Alex Kranz. Hello. Share some things. Look me up real fast. Okay, now let's chat. Yeah, I just... Also with fitness, like fitness has been a big part of my life for the last few years, especially. And it's like, the best advice I've got is from regular people who have been like, you're going too hard or just stop hurting yourself. That's the biggest thing. Not like I'm self-harming, but like I would push myself too far. It would always be like, my wrist hurts. It's like, well, have you tried not fucking boxing, dickhead? And it's like, I don't think Chad GPT would say it. Mostly it's like friends of mine being like, yeah, you need to rest. Because in my, I don't know, being a little personal here, in my head, I'm like, I should train more. I should lose weight. Like I pushed myself quite hard. A large language model telling me anything about that isn't going to help partly because I'll be like, I'm not a website does not impress me. Like I don't trust your judgment. And also most of the time, the mean advice around lifting is dog shit. I'm so sorry, but the best lifting advice I ever got was lift volume, not heavy. And then people will be like, oh, I like lifting heavy things, put them back down. It's fine, but it's like does not work for a lot of people I've met. Oh, you mean you're not in the church of CrossFit progressive overload? What is that? Just I know about CrossFit, but I saw how they do pull-ups and I just stopped listening to them. Like, I'm not going to shit on CrossFit. They do some... It's very hard to explain what CrossFit is. It's a philosophy of working out that is very different from a lot of other things. Right, there we go. And it's really all about pushing yourself to your physical limits, which for some people, that can be a really useful thing. If you are over the age of 35, maybe be careful because you're going to hurt yourself. I mean and it like If you under the age of 35 go do your CrossFit No I think CrossFit has like because it a franchise and so each CrossFit gym can be very different I think there like a million different CrossFits out there and it depends on which CrossFit person you know in your life as to what CrossFit they do. Some of them do the Marjorie Taylor Green version of CrossFit. Some of them do a much more reasonable version of it. I love her little pull-up. Oh, they're like, I think they're called kipping pull-ups or something. That's what I was saying. Those weird crossfit, the ones where you're just like, I'm going to break my fucking neck. Yeah. Oh, my God. It looks like the way I would try to do a pull-up as a child, and you'd be told no. It looks like not being able to do a pull-up. Yeah, that's what it looks like. Because they're difficult. It's an interesting look. But, yeah, no. So it's the other thing that I'm going to – back to the hate instead. Nice, nice. Less thoughtfulness, more hate. I hate wellness influencers. Like not every wellness influencer. There's some that are like not horrible and who actually talk about science and are quite responsible and like thoughtful in their wellness content. They are not the majority. The majority is just like, oh, my God, I drink 81 every day and I have so much energy now. Or they'll be like, oh, my God, come with what I eat in a day. And it's just disordered eating. or you know they're like protein protein protein protein max and it's like well protein is nice but you do need to eat your other macros and uh or you know it's just these little nuggets of science or nutritional um like best practices that get buried with disordered eating habits that get buried with pseudoscience that are just like not that helpful for people to know but it sounds real And then, you know, because they are your parasocial friend, a lot of people start to trust them. And then they start doing stupid things in their life. And these are all people who are just generally, by and large, mis- or underserved by the healthcare system. They don't want to go to a doctor who's going to dismiss their pain for the bazillionth time because that's the only thing that's affordable in their insurance network. But I just really hate that, one, influencers, whether they mean to or not, I'm sure some of them are well-meaning, whatever. They are profiting off of your discomfort and your search for something that's more affordable. I hate that. Because a lot of them don't take the time to do their due diligence. And so they're taking sponsored money from these powders that you don't need objectively. But saying, oh, my God, this is how I cured everything holistically. Because I have to eat clean. What is eating clean? What does that mean? Wash your fucking vegetables. What does being clean mean? It's like just eating healthy, but they're like, I eat clean. I don't eat processed foods. I don't eat sugar. I don't eat this. And, you know, a little sugar in moderation is fine. You 100%. Everyone eats sugar. Yeah, there's no. Everyone eats sugar. Or it's people who say like, oh, my God, fruit has a high glycemic index, so it's bad for you. It's a fucking fruit. Like, it's fine. I once had a doctor. I was with a diabetic patient who's a family member. And I was once with them and the doctor was like, they can never eat a banana. And I was like, what if their blood sugar is low? Not with that attitude. They can't eat a banana. And I'm like, okay, so they just die? Like they can eat a banana. They just shouldn't eat it if their blood sugar is high or they're not, you know, thinking about it. But who is this culpable? Is it these fitness influencers or is it the entire industry, including the Googles and the YouTubes? It's the entire industry. I actually think it's one abstraction higher, which ties into AI as well, which is everyone wants a simple solution. They want to work out a way to lose weight that is not working out consistently and eating less calories. Though I realize it's not even as flat as that because everyone's body is kind of different. They want something that will give them a quick answer without them learning anything. They want a fitness plan that will tell them something they don't already know. It's called GLP-1. I could also just... I'm going to hit you over the head. No, GLP... I mean... I think GLP-1 fucking rocks. I think it's... I think when it's used right and when it's used healthily. Yes, exactly. When it's used... You know what? If it's someone for weight loss and they're using it with the instruction of a doctor, I think it's great. Like, it's just... As long as you're not just like, I don't know, getting it illegally off of TikTok and illegally is probably not the term, but like... Well, that's GLP-3. Well, no, you can also go get compounded versions of GLP-1, which are in a dubious state at this point in time, because it used to be okay to compound it. And then when there was a shortage, the FDA allowed that. And then once the shortage ended, they were like, no, no, no. So then these compounding pharmacies started altering the formula a little bit, adding a little bit of vitamin B12 or just different components in it so that they weren't carbon copies of what the pharmaceutical companies were like, hey, hey, hey, this is copyrighted, fuck off. But, you know, like that's also in of itself a problem because a lot of why are people going to these compounding pharmacies for their GLP-1s? It's because insurance companies make you fit a very narrow criteria, even though it could potentially help you with a number of different things. Like we have to understand that GLP-1s are very recent for non-diabetic use. Like there's not a whole lot of data out there. Right? Not a year, but it's like in the span of medication, not that long. Like, you know, scientists study these things for a very long time. And I think we're about, what, a decade, 15 years on GLPs, less for the Manjaros and all that stuff. But it's like, you know, we don't – the vast majority of the clinical studies that have been done on these medications have been on obese or diabetic populations. We don't know what a bodybuilder who is just taking this to like optimize themselves. We don't know what the impact on their bodies will be. We find some promising research with people with PCOS and fatty liver disease, which I have both of those, which is why my doctor is also like, you know, GLP makes sense for you and the metabolic dysfunction that you have. So it's not that doctors aren't using these in the arsenals to treat people who fit certain criteria, but there are people who could benefit from it who don't fit these arbitrary insurance criteria. And so we have created this market, this alternative market for them to go to that can be fine in some spaces if you do your research and you do your vetting and you find a legitimate compound pharmacy that follows the rules. Or you could get it from some great market guy named Bobbo Timby, and I don't know what you're putting in your body. So we're creating these things because we have made things so restrictive, so bad. And then we are monetizing the alternative solution, which is, you know, ultimately giving a lot of health anxiety to people. Because why should they have to track their pee to know their hydration? Just look at the color of your pee. I don't know. Like, you know, instead of putting the systemic things in place that could help people with their health and marketing these as tools, it's like all of a sudden, oh, you can get your blood test because maybe you live in a rural area and you don't have time to go to the doctor. So Aura will get your blood test for you, and now you can track your metabolites and your blood in the Aura app. With no doctor's advice? With no doctor's advice? Well, you could ask maybe the AI in the app or whatnot. And it's not just Aura. There's a lot of companies that are kind of pursuing this line. And it comes from a place of, like, yes, there is a gap in the health care system. Traditionally, we're trying to fill that gap. And there are some people who that will help. I'm not going to lie and say that there's no people that that could benefit. but at the same time the vast majority of healthy people don't need that they don't need that health anxiety in their life but we're just putting it on them because it's like well if you don't you're going to die and so it's just like i i would love for there to be more common sense and wellness i would love us to have responsible conversations about whether or not you need to track x y 70 biomarkers you don't need to track 70 fucking biomarkers you really don't that data will not help you. It won't. It won't. Is it kind of like, have you guys done it? Because I'm just curious, is it like when you go and you would pay to give someone all of your genetic material so they could test it to find out whether or not who your family was, right? Like your family made up. We call it longevity tech, which is just another word for fucking bullshit. Sorry, wellness. Hell yeah. It's this weird, you know, who is the bloody baroness who's bathing in the blood of virgins to appear younger and live longer? It's the same kind of fear from Silicon Valley where they're like, we are deathly afraid of death. So longevity tech and you can optimize your life and you can study all these metrics about yourself. And then you'll be able to live a better, healthier life without having to go to the doctor as often. And it's just like there's a lot of problems with this narrative. And you have Maha co-adopting it in some ways. I've seen health tech become weirdly right wing over the last couple of weeks and months when I'm just like, I don't know how I feel about this. I don't know how I feel about RFK Jr. going like every American wearable. I'm just like, why? It's post-align bullshit. We can't know everything. There is a world of mystery. And also, even knowing all of this stuff doesn't do anything. I've said this before on the podcast. I have four years of sleep data, if not more, and I cannot tell you anything other than generally I sleep about seven and a half hours. That's my actual secret to all of this. The only reason I can put out 10,000 words a week is I sleep seven and a half to eight hours a night without fail. I prioritize sleep. And it's funny because it's like of all the fitness things, sleep, supplement things, sorry, different supplements I've tried, weird tricks, sleep. I don't even mean it in like a facetious way I just mean like yeah this it's the one thing I can be like yeah when I do that I feel better when I don't sleep I feel way worse I mean that's why they say sleep diet and exercise it just always boils down to like those three things and yes there are conditions that kind of make it difficult for certain people over others if you have metabolic dysfunction yeah well the diet part is going to be a little harder for you and there are treatments for that. That makes sense. But it fundamentally will always boil down to sleep, diet, and exercise. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict? A villain? A nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it, all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I also want to be clear about something though, because it was lost earlier. We've had emails about it. I think it's fine. There were some people I've got emails from. I forget when it was brought up in the past where it's like, oh, the judgment of people who use GLP to lose weight. I think it's fucking, I've had weight issues my whole life. I think however people want to lose weight, as long as it's done in a safe manner, as long as it's done. I'm on one. I'm on one It's fucking sick It's absolute magic It's fucking cool I love it It makes sense for me As long as it's not depriving diabetics Of getting the things they need Exactly That's the one thing As long as the diabetics And people with metabolic issues Who need it to survive Are having it And we don't have a shortage It's really great For me it's like Oh I talk about it I call it the wing index We've had to hear about this before There's something called The wing index We've talked about The wing index How many wings do you eat before you were on a GLP-1 versus how many do you eat after? Because some of us, like, V and I were talking. I was like a 15-wing girly. Hell yeah. And now I'm a six. And I look at that and I'm like, that's sad. But then I'm like, was 15 good? No, it was delicious. It was wonderful. Yeah, I was going to say. It was the best thing in the world. Do I miss it? My wing index. No. My wing index was four, and now it's half of one. That's not great. I'm having a different experience with GLPs and Krances. It's a little more complicated. Because everyone's different. And also, I didn't want to be on one. I was told to be on one because of metabolic dysfunction was causing weight gain. And so I needed the extra help to kind of fix the metabolic dysfunction and reverse some negative trends in my liver. So that was like a very lengthy conversation I had with my doctor over three, four months. So, you know, it was an informed decision to go on it. And then as soon as I went on it, I started having clown nightmares, and that was not fun. I did not realize that's why I had nightmares. But yeah apparently GLP-1 can create Really vivid nightmares early on I thought I was just having a moment And V told me and I was like oh I thought it was clown specific Oh no I Had a dream that my spouse's Ex was chasing Me on a cruise ship with a knife And I was like this bitch is crazy And then she turned into Pennywise the clown From it and I was like oh no She really crazy and then I woke up Almost screaming and Apparently it's because like A small percentage of people who take GLP-1s have crazy dreams on them. And I was on the intro dose when I was getting these side effects, and my doctor was like, you know, most people don't get side effects on the intro dose. You are a special girl. And I was like oh cool great So you telling me that food aversion is not normal on the intro dose because I can look at food sometimes And it a very it a very troubling This is why I like the doctor I've had for the last few years in Vegas, because I don't get any of this normal people. I don't hear about the mean on the media. And I just did. He doesn't try and pretend that I am like similar to other people because I am not like it. And most of the time, it's just me being like, is this bad? And he's like, no. I feel like the entire problem of everything we're talking about in these conversations is this trying to push everybody towards the mean, trying to make everyone like everyone else in a way that's literally not – I feel like the mean is also a terrible way to do health in general. Just the amount of food you need. It should be personalized. It should be personalized. Right? Like we're all different. Everybody's got different things. Some people got heart issues. Some people got fatty livers. Some people got the diabetes. Sorry, I'm of an age. The diabetes. I will always think of him every single time. Mr. Brimley. Yeah, Mr. Brimley. And, you know, everybody is a little different. And when we don't allow for that, when these fitness influencers and these companies push things and say, this is going to fix you, it's a flat out lie. Because they don't know and they can't promise that. and they shouldn't. And I know we're kind of going all through it. I still get really upset with the companies like Google who are profiting enormously off of this stuff. They have no issue just raking in billions in cash from advertisers and from these influencers and from viewpoints just to make a buck. They're just like, yeah, this is just an industry. You are the product now. I hate that. I hate that you are the product now. Your attention is a product. Your body is a product. Everything about you is being monetized to be a product. And it's like, you don't do the buying anymore. You are the data. Like, smart glasses, why do they want to put cameras on these smart glasses so that they can get data from the camera? No, it's because everybody always wants to record their first-person point of view. Of course. Which looks like shit. That's not what the commercial said. It looks like boiled ass. Here's a hater moment. I think the video from those things looks weird. I think it looks strange. I don't like it. I feel like I'm sitting on top of somebody's head. I mean, you are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know. I know that's why. Like, it's. But that's not a pleasant feeling. I don't want to be Ratatouille. Just like the vertical video wasn't attractive, right? Still isn't. Like, now we're all used to vertical video. I like my 69 situation, 1610. Oh, yeah. I want to see everything around you I want a classic wide frame yeah it's just I'm I am really I do think we're going to like I no one no one fucking believes me but I do think a lot of this stuff is going to go away the moment they realize how actually expensive it is to run this shit and on top of the fact that just no one's really making any money out of this AI health stuff because where's the product it's like yeah I ask you you're the product Yeah, but they don't know how to productize it from there. They don't know how to make a ton of money from that, evidence being that nobody has made a ton of money from that. Even Claude Code, the supposedly most important thing ever that isn't, only about $100 million a month in revenue. Andrew Huberman probably makes that from various snake oils he boils in his garage. The thing about health, though, it is the most valuable thing you have. You will, I think Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez said something along these lines several years ago, and it's stuck in my brain, where it's just like, you will, most people, unless, you know, most people, right, will basically do anything to live a little bit longer. That's rich people. That's poor people. Nobody wants to die. I mean, like, there's a few select, there's a select few who court death for whatever reason. But most people don't want to die. They want just a little bit more time. And so health is your most valuable possession that you have. It's priceless because as soon as your health goes, your quality of life goes. And I think companies know this and they know if they can scare you, if they can fear monger you into saying we have a solution so that you will live longer, people will pay out the nose for that. And they're just waiting to get that thing that will be like, oh, you will do this. Like smartwatches, when it was just counting your steps, didn't fucking matter. They were having a hard time getting people to buy those things. The fashion, Apple Watch edition, yeah, that didn't work either. But as soon as the Apple Watch was like, well, save your life if you have a cardiac event, yeah, people started buying them. They started becoming a thing. That was kind of cool, though, like it could do the EKG thing. But I'm sure that there's something there. I would argue Apple is a big reason why we have this. I mean, obviously, there's like the Alex Jones and the Joe Rogans of the world and everything like that. And the whole like influencer economy and love to push through your protein powders. But a big part of this was Apple. This is my hater section. A big part of this was Apple. When Apple came out, they launched that watch. It did fuck all. Nobody knew what to use it for. I had one. I called it my great regret, capital letters, every single time, even when I said it out loud. And that was because it was useless. And they were desperate to find a use for it. They found a use with the EKG stuff. And it was a genuinely useful thing. People started buying it for that reason, right? I cannot tell you how many people I know who bought a watch for an elderly parent so that they could have that extra safety net. And now they're like, okay, well, we still have to make money off of this. But we already did that, and we have to grow. And we have to keep growing. If we don't grow, we die. And so what do they do? They push further into wellness in places where Apple and a lot of these companies have zero business being. And they're doing it exclusively because they're like, we need new markets to sell our products at. that's it. I will say Apple is much more responsible in the wellness space than other. They do a lot in clinical research. They are very clear about what their products do and don't do. I do not hate Apple as much in this space as other kind of more snake oily, which I'm gonna call it. They did kick it off. They kicked off the advanced health features. But like, that's the, again, here's the difference here's the distinction health features versus wellness features they're different they're different there's a different grade isn't apple one of the ones who did push wellness because some of their features couldn't weren't immediately approved weren't being like yeah they just weren't approved and so they were like oh this is a wellness feature initially it was more like they were they i wouldn't say it was them that were the first ones because EKG, I think, was the first time we saw a big difference in terms of the alerts. Anything that is diagnostic, they very much go through the—it's not diagnostic, but anything that's diagnostic adjacent, they will go through the clearance process for. But again, to answer the question I asked you guys earlier, blood oxygen, that's a wellness feature because there's nothing that you do with that information. It's just a spot check. It's not telling you that you have sleep apnea. It's not telling you that you have anything. It is for your fun that you get to see what your blood oxygen is, and so that is a wellness feature. And okay, cool. That Apple risks a lot of time and effort and lawsuits to put into their watches and are now, aren't they still embroiled in a lawsuit about it? They're still embroiled in a lawsuit about it, but they're no longer banned from importing it. So, you know, you can still have those features on the thing. But, you know, blood oxygen I don't think is that useful of a metric. If you need it, just get a pulse oximeter. I don't think a smartwatch is, you know, I've had some readers tell me that they find it useful for their parents with respiratory issues. But I just think you should have a pulse oximeter because this is going to be a gruesome story. But when my mom was dying, like actually the day she died, it was because she was having respiratory failure from ALS. Her lungs were paralyzed, basically, and she couldn't breathe and get enough oxygen into them. So her blood oxygen was dropping rapidly. And, you know, I had the pulse oximeter and she was getting to a point where her blood saturation levels were like in the high 40s to low 60s, which is death time. Because anything under 90, you're supposed to go to a hospital. So, you know, that was my family's full of doctors. So this was supervised, right? My family's full of doctors and they all knew what that meant. And, you know, I'm a wearables reporter. My cousin was freaking out. She thought the pulse oximeter couldn't possibly be saying 48 because that meant death. So I was like, well, I got Apple Watch. Let me put this on my dying mother. Oh, no. And let me tell you, it couldn't read it. There was no reading. Fucking hell. It couldn't read it. Did it put up an emoji or anything? No. When it got a reading? No, it just said it couldn't get a reading. No, she put it on and it immediately said, you should try standing. Yeah. I mean, this is not a story that I frequently tell. just because it's a sad story. And then I'm also just like, I feel guilt because I'm just like, oh, I put an Apple Watch on my mom while she was the scientist. No, no, no, no, bullshit. You tried to confirm something. You actually tried. You were trying to confirm. Also, your mother was dying. You could have done anything in that case. Like you reacted more normally than I would if such a thing was happening. Don't worry, I reacted not normally later that night. Again, completely forgivable considering. Yeah. Be kinder to yourself. But no, I was just very much like, well, what are the opportunities for a wearables tester to be with someone who is very identifiably below 90 in terms of a pulse oximeter and to see whether this feature actually works on someone who is so low? And my finding was, no, this is why you need a pulse oximeter. Because if you are someone who has to worry about that, you shouldn't really rely on a smartwatch wellness. You're clearly conned. Well, it's the same with like, I was going to say, similarly dark, but my mom's still alive. But she had a stroke and had to go on a heart monitor. And she was like, well, why can't I just use my Apple Watch? Because it's got AFib detection. And they were like, because it's a garbage heart rate monitor. You need one like over your heart. We want to see every beat of that thing. Your wearables aren't going to do that. And her mind was blown. And she hated it. And we ended up using the Apple Watch. It's only for healthy people with a baseline. Like, that's all these wearables are. It's just establishing what your baseline is. And, like, accuracy is actually not the most important thing for most wearables. It's consistency. So if it's consistently inaccurate by the same amount, you can still use it to judge changes in your baseline. But yeah, obviously I live and breathe this shit. So I get really mad when I see influencers just talking out their fucking ass about clinically backed this. And they're like, it's clinically proven. Nothing's clinically proven. Clinically proven doesn't mean shit. It's a marketing term. Especially, you know, I actually interviewed a doctor and I was just like, what is clinically whatever meant? And then she was just like, there's a whole wide range of what clinically backed or clinically tested means. It could be in certain cases, depending on how a study is designed, it could be someone just self-reporting their results in a scientific setting. And that is technically clinical. So, you know, next time you hear clinically validated, clinically proven and marketing materials, I want you to put your little thinking cap on and go, but is it really? Is it really? What does that mean? Look, what does that mean? What are they actually studying? How are they validating this thing? Like, I just want you to take the extra critical thinking step and just don't go like, wow, science words. Like, that's all I want for people to next time you see an influencer in a Lululemon set going, oh, my God, this greens powder is clinically proven to help your cognition. No. that gets into that whole four humors thing we've been seeing where everybody's talking about your cortisol and all your other different hormones and if I hear one more time someone talking about inflammation I was like if it was this easy to release our cortisol no one would have stress you know how you get rid of cortisol lower your cortisol levels be less stressed and exercise that's it I've been getting random itching when I fall asleep and I've read so many things like, yeah, maybe you're stressed. It's like, cool, thank you. Maybe you have dry skin, moisturized. Do you moisturize, Ed? Yeah, I do. I do and it doesn't work. So, I mean, it's probably something fun. Someone's going to email me. If you email me and say it's like a, just want to be clear, any listeners who email and try and diagnose me, I don't want to fucking know and I'm going to blast you. Everyone email him and tell him he's amylactin. any kind of diagnosis, I must be fucking clear. I will light you up like a Christmas tree. And on that note, I think we can call it there as we've had a wonderful hater session. Victoria Song, of course, from The Verge. Victoria, always a pleasure to have you. Thank you for having me. I hate everything. And Alex Granz, love having you too. Oh my God. I hated every part of this podcast. and in every part of the world right now. Did I get my hate up? Perfect. That was great. The hate-o-meter I've got going is absolutely losing it. But this was lovely. Thank you, everyone, for listening. This has been lovely. You'll have monologue, of course, this week. And yeah, catch you soon. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song as Matt Ossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I.com. You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media For more from Cool Zone Media Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. 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