“I Can’t!” - What to Do When Kids Doubt Themselves with Renee Marie

Hi guys, welcome back to Pre-Liance Podcast. This is Sarah and I'm super excited for you guys today to meet my guest, Rene Marisi, is going to tell you all about how she's going to help us parents who were all struggling with how to equip our kids to be confident and has social skills. And we're all in this stage of where our kids are early elementary, you're going, what's happening to our little vibrant social king? So Rene, welcome. Hi, thank you so much for having me on, Sarah. I'm so excited. So yeah, my name is Rene Marie. I am a mom of three girls and the founder of My Secret Playbook. So it all started because as a child growing up, I struggled with confidence and positive mindset. And I became so interested in learning more about the psychology and the neuroscience behind what's actually happening, what makes some people confident, some people not confident, how can we help kids who are very timid and struggle with social interactions? So when I had kids, I became obsessed with learning about this. And I read a ton of awesome self development books, and psychology data research studies that helped me so much. And I just kept thinking, like, if I learned these things as a child, my life would be so much easier. And anytime I read a really awesome book, I just kept thinking, Oh, my goodness, like, why are we not thinking to teach our kids these things when they need it the most? So I couldn't find any great resources to teach these things to them. So I started compiling everything that I've learned through all the incredible books I've read and research studies and data and neuroscience. And I turned it into this amazing book of short stories, because I wanted to teach my kids in a way that didn't feel like a lecture, because I felt like I would talk to them about these things at nighttime, but I can tell they weren't necessarily absorbing it. Like, it felt like a lecture to them. So then I started doing it through storytelling, and I saw how it really pulled them in and kind of made them interested and that it actually stuck. Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. Okay, so one thing that I found, what I love your Instagram, we'll link that because I think our listeners could go through and just your rills are so on point two of things we're experiencing. But one thing that I noticed that you mentioned exactly, you're saying the between ages six and 14, which a lot of our listeners, right, the confidence drops quickly. What is happening? Because we've all experienced it, right? And we almost see that they're very vulnerable. They're aware of social comparisons and that negative self talk. Yeah, yeah, around six to seven is when kids really start comparing themselves to others. So instead of saying things like, I'm really good at drawing, which you'll normally hear like a four or five year old saying, so good at this, they're starting to turn that into am I better than this person at this? Or am I worse than this? And yeah, like, they start picking up on things like, who's faster at running, who does better in school. And once they start thinking this way, they become a lot more critical of themselves. And they're also starting to develop a stronger inner voice at this age. They have all these thoughts going through their heads now at this age, like, what if I mess up? What if I say something weird or say something off? What is this going to think about me? And the interesting part is that between ages six to 12, their brains are so neuroplastic that whatever they're practicing kind of starts to become wired in. So whether that's negative self talk, or positive self talk, it kind of becomes what they naturally lean to in the future. So if we can jump in at this age, when they're starting to compare themselves and starting to pick up on how they're being perceived by other people around them, if they can master this at this age, life can be so much easier. Because if we can jump in and kind of teach them like how to reframe those negative thoughts, because they are natural, like negativity bias is a natural part of growing. And naturally we go there, but just teaching them how to reframe it in a helpful way and helping them kind of master that this age can make their future so much easier. And I think what happens to happen to me is you don't have someone like you who's, you know, let's hopefully this is reaching moms who are in the stage and say they got the toddlers coming up. So when that first comment does happen, it kind of catches you off a little guard of like, you know, I'm not the fastest or someone to beat me and I must not be a good runner anymore or he's this or she's this. You do kind of almost your first reaction is like, that's not true or you know, but you're not responding in a way of like, okay, so this is what's happening in your brain. This is an opportunity. We almost kind of fix it without fixing it, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's so quick to just say like, oh, that's not true. Like you're so good at this, but kind of helping them know that the way they're thinking is not wrong. It's actually really normal and it's a part of natural development, but just kind of, yeah, like you said, helping them kind of turn it into something beneficial. Yeah. I love that. So in perfectionism, oh, that's a hot topic. Just I feel like in general for moms, right? And but then we're seeing a lot more in kids. And you touch on this is, you know, meltdowns over small mistakes are starting to happen. We're fear of trying new things. The I can't, right? Because our default and we really kind of have, we see in kids like you're almost like fearful of losing approval. What is going on here too? Is it the lack of the drop of the confidence of the comparison? And why is it important again to kind of step in at this crucial moment? Yeah, I think a lot of what we're seeing isn't necessarily fragility. It is like you said, fear of losing approval because kids are incredibly tuned into how they're being perceived by adults and their peers. So when they make a mistake, it's not just about that mistake. It's more in their mind quickly turns into, okay, what does this mistake say about me? Like their identities on the line. And there's really interesting research showing that when kids start believing that their value comes from being smart or getting an A or getting first place, they become more likely to avoid challenges because if they try and fill it suddenly feels like their identity is on the line. But if we focus so much more on the effort that it takes to achieve something instead of the goal. So if our kid gets an A instead of saying like, you got an A amazing job, I'm so proud of you, praise the effort a lot more than the actual outcome. Like I see how hard you studied. So even if they get a C, they don't feel like their identities on the line, they don't feel like they failed. They know that they gave it their all and they put a lot of effort in. And I think also how we talk about mistakes at home, that if we don't make mistakes, we don't learn. If we don't fail, we don't learn. And if we're not trying new things, like if we don't ever make mistakes, it means we're not trying new things, which means we're not growing. And it's incredibly important for us to grow and mistakes are just part of the process to get there. And it's kind of how we interpret those mistakes, we can use them as lessons and grow from them instead of tying them to our identity. Because it doesn't mean anything about you. And I think what we're seeing is a lot of listeners and mothers, myself included, we get triggered in these conversations, right? We're like, Oh, because that's we maybe grew up with being our identity in our achievements, right? Or if it is our career choice or what we do, and then becoming a mom and that shift. And now we're seeing this in our kids, we don't want that. So why is this almost healing for us too? Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like once I became a mom, I became so much more aware of my own inner voice in my inner critic, because I know that my kids are listening to me. And I want to respond in a way that I want them to respond when they have these situations. Yeah. And it's hard because most of us didn't go through life learning how to reframe our negative thoughts. And then as adults, we're trying to fix all of those insecurities that we've had our entire lives, which is why I'm so passionate about teaching kids at this age before they grow up. But yeah, I feel like becoming a parent is incredibly helpful to help us become a lot more aware of our own insecurities and our inner voice as well. And things that the social comparison here, right? It's a balance that we compare ourselves as moms, right? Like all the time. So here we have our kids and especially I feel like it really explodes eight to 12 is how do they, you know, we're teaching kids how to navigate peer pressure. And I'm not enough thinking without trying to completely like shield them from the world because, you know, we're trying to equip them and we're trying to get them tools. But a lot of times it is kind of you just got to get out there and you've got to learn and you've got to experience it. So kind of speak to that of being like, you know, some moms are like, you know, they got to learn and others like, well, I just want to equip them for everything. Where is that nice media of how do you equip your kid? Yeah, I think it's easy for us to kind of go and tell our kids not to compare themselves. But that's not realistic. Like it's natural for us to compare ourselves comparison theory is a thing. And we naturally do that. But I think what we can do is teach our kids what it means. So instead of saying like, she's so much better at drawing than me, I'm not going to even try because she's so much better. She's going to win. We can use that as fuel to better ourselves and say like maybe instead of just jumping to the conclusion that she is better than me or he's better than me, maybe they take art lessons every weekend, maybe they're practicing every night. Am I practicing every night? What can I do to better myself? And just kind of helping our kids see that comparing ourselves to others is natural. But it's not helpful. It's not going to benefit us in any way. But what we want to do is compare ourselves to who we were yesterday. And are we better than we were yesterday? Are we doing anything to become better? And also yeah, it's easy for us as parents to say, yeah, you didn't make the team, but you probably should have, they made a wrong call. But also acknowledging like, okay, what can we do to better ourselves? What can we do to have a better shot at making the team next year? And yeah, so I think it's not about removing that comparison because it's completely unrealistic. And it's just a natural part of humans, but just helping them kind of reframe and compare themselves in a helpful way. To who they were yesterday. And I love that. And I think that's something as parents we should take, right? Because I mean, who hasn't compared themselves to a mom, maybe they see on social media, or maybe it's a neighbor who you're like, how does she have this all together? And I'm not. So it is again, something that you can say, you know, what am I doing today? If I want to make certain these goals and having discussions of, you know, in life, you have to work for things, right? And you have to learn and put in the effort that it doesn't just come easy. Absolutely. And just kind of turning that judgment into curiosity, like, okay, like, what are they doing? What can I learn from them? Maybe they can teach me a few things here or there instead of just kind of letting it just shut you down and making you think that you're not good enough, but using it more as curiosity. I love that. Get curious about it. And I always say, I always have started to really dive into any like big emotions from my children, right? Or myself, get a little bit more curious of like, well, what's root cause? What is in there? Right? So I think curiosity is a lot safer for our minds and just our nervous systems and even just like dealing with people in general being curious versus being like automatic in a response. Yeah. And just jumping to conclusions. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. And something that I didn't know, but I looked at your help it is through is, I guess I just thought by kids with learned social skills, but no, that's not a thing, right? Like how to read a room, how to join a conversation, how to make friends, like, how important is it to help equip them? So they are included. I mean, it is one of those things, right? That these groups are kind of clicking now and friendships and they have memories of maybe what they did on the playground to them or how they could be. And maybe they interrupted and they're like, oh, she always interrupts or, well, this it's, it's a thing we have to teach and equip. And we may not even realize that we were taught it or maybe we weren't taught it. How do we do this? Yeah, I think it's easy for us to say, just go join in. Yeah, friends, just ask them to play, but we're not thinking about what's actually going through our kids' minds. Like, well, what if they say no, like, I'm going to be embarrassed or what if they, what if they make fun of me or what if I'm rejected? So we have to actually help them prepare for those situations because I think what we view as confidence is actually competence. Like, if our kids know how to join a conversation, what to say when they're rejected, how to reframe those embarrassing moments and not let it crush them. Once they go into those situations feeling competent and prepared and ready, that confidence just naturally comes. And I think a lot of it is about exposing our kids to situations too. Like, I have one child who was incredibly timid and I remember driving her to the camp one day and she didn't know anyone. And as a mom, I so badly wanted to just turn around and stay home with her because her stomach was hurting because she was so nervous. But I knew you have to go through these things to gain confidence. And as hard as it is, as apparent, as long as you are helping prepare them when they go into those situations and they actually have success with it, all of a sudden that confidence starts to come because you aren't going to gain that confidence without overcoming it as well. And like, I picked her up at the end of the day from camp and she was so happy. She made a couple of friends, she had a great time, and then that more and more of those types of situations made her confident. And now, like, we don't worry about those things. She can go into a room with people she doesn't know and she's okay because she knows that she can handle it because she has handled it before. So I think, yes, it's incredibly important to teach our kids those things, but it's important to do it in a way that does not have pressure. And I think the storytelling has been incredibly helpful because in the book, there's a lot of stories where kids, yeah, like they start a new school and the kids already have a little click in a group, and he goes to a group and they say, no, you can't play with us. We're doing this. But the story kind of has a lesson of teaching him like it doesn't mean anything about him. It's that they were occupied, they were busy, and they forget about it in a second whereas you're going to go home and think about it all night, whereas they've already forgotten about it and actually didn't really mean anything about you. They were just doing their own thing. So kind of teaching kids how to look at those situations from a different lens, but also preparing them with like, go to things on what to say if someone says something mean to them, or if someone says, no, you can't play. Okay, here's how you can respond so that they know worst case scenario. This is what can happen. And I already know what to say. So walking into those situations feels a little bit easier because they feel more more competent. And then, yeah, just consistently exposing them to those those types of things as well. I love that because, you know, from our base, maternal mental health, what we have seen incredible success with, which makes complete sense in this, for our kids too, is that education and empowerment is such, we call it a preventative tool, right? And it is in the sense of kids we are seeing increasing anxiety and depression and social comparison and just the negativities of this, right, that it's going to come along. But to your point, you know, when we're telling moms, this is what anxiety can look like and when you're feeling overwhelmed, this is what we can do. Here's a plan on how you're going to get better. This is how we're going to go into this conversation. It works. But if you never start with the conversation, it just, we say name entertainment, these kids do not know. But I love about your stories is it may not be a story that night that they've experienced yet. But when they do experience it, they're going, wait, okay, I remember what happened there. I can do this. Yeah, I almost like to say like when they read the story, it's like a dress rehearsal for real life because stories activate, like there's so much emotion involved in a story. So it activates a certain part of your brain that helps you remember. So they kind of go into that situation. They're like, Oh, I kind of feel like I've dealt with this already. And we've had a lot of feedback from parents too, saying that their kids used some of the lessons from the story that they read almost a year ago now, and they remembered it. So yeah, I do find it helpful in that way. And I think it's a safe space for you as a parent and your child to have conversations without being a personal, because it's a character, right? Like it's this person. So we can talk about what's happening to her or him. And it's not like, you know, because then we all have our personal biases, we all feel a certain way, we get a little defensive, or we want to fix more when it's our own kid. But it's this neutral party that we're both learning this situation that happened to Story the first time. And we're reacting, and it's not us. And I think that's the best way to sometimes talk about it with our kids. Absolutely. Yeah, because the barriers are down. I feel like it also kind of like for myself, and I've had many parents reach out to that after they read a story, their kid opens up about a situation, because it just kind of breaks down that barrier and makes them feel more comfortable. Like they're not the only ones going through those things, because at the times our kids don't, don't tell us everything that they're going through. And I found as my kids get older, I'm like, there's some things I can tell you're going through something right now, but you're not ready to share it with me. So hopefully, reading one of these stories can kind of help them feel comfortable to open up about it. And just trigger them. I'm so curious. Did you write this when you were, you know, and keep adding to it when your kids experience it, a new situation. Is that through the writing process, do you feel like there's more to add? Yeah, so it's a combination of what I felt like I needed as a kid and what I remember feel like I just remember me being so shy. I was so shy as a kid, and I lacked confidence and I feel like it held me back so much in life. And then there were certain things that I learned as an adult that I was like, okay, if I learned this as a kid, it'd be so much easier. So I did some stories around that. And then absolutely, I have three kids, we have different situations, we deal with all the time. And I definitely used some of those situations for stories, and then read them to my kids, because there were moments too where I'm like, I want to get this across to her. But I know she's just going to be, she's not going to take it as well if it feels like a lecture. So then I would kind of quickly craft a story around it. And then I would go back and further work on it as well. You were real time being like, note this, get this out. And I love that. And I think the best things that actually are optical and helpful to moms and parenting is lived experience and things that we find a gap in care or in knowledge. And we feel that because we like, we want more of that. Absolutely. Yeah. So I love that you did that. And talking about confidence, because you're saying you're like, I wasn't confident. And you say confidence is a skill, right? Not a personality trait. And I think that's so important. It's like with anything, it's a skill, right? You just are, we got to train our brains and our thinking. What are some kind of micro moments where parents can actively strengthen that skill? Like what is some low fruit to grab? The parents like, okay, give me some of your tix and chips before I can't download your book right now. Listen to this podcast. Give me some things that I can do with my kids. Yeah. Well, I think one really important part of confidence is self efficacy. And this is basically a child's belief that I can handle things and I can figure things out. And kids build that belief through small experiences of trying something hard and actually being able to achieve it. So I think one thing is kind of letting our kids sit in that struggle a little bit longer than we normally would because it's so, it's just our natural instinct to want to jump in and protect our kids and say like, oh, this is hard for you. Let me come help you. So whether like they're trying to tie their shoe, giving them a little bit more time to sit in that struggle and to sit in that frustration, because a lot of the times it's just a couple of extra seconds or a couple extra minutes and they get it. And then once they get it, all of a sudden they build a little bit more confidence. And then when there's another situation and they kind of are sitting in that struggle, as long as we're there beside them and we encourage them and give them tips once they can achieve that themselves, that builds another level of confidence. So just those micro moments of achievement helps to really build self efficacy. Another thing is connecting their effort to growth. So if they try something socially, like introducing themselves or speaking up, we might say like, that took a lot of courage. And the more the more you practice doing this, the easier it gets. And just constantly praising their efforts instead of the outcomes, I think is another really important part for confidence. And I think another one is how we talk about mistakes and failure at home, just constantly sharing with our kids the mistakes we've made and the failures we've had and how we grew from them and how we learned from them so that kids feel more confident to try new things and to go through different situations because they know that mistakes are a normal part of life. And it's actually really, it's a good thing to make mistakes. And it's a good thing to fill because if we aren't doing those things, we're not learning from them. And I think that that helps as well. No, I love that. While we're on the tips, I'm going to keep asking. So let's reframing and let's say they're like, I'm bad at this. Or I always make a mistake or they're spiraling. What's a good response? Like what is something you would tell parents because they're going, okay, my kid does that check. Okay, I know what to do here. Now, what do I say today? But it's just all like, you know, it's happened. It could be at a party. It could be with their homework. It could be wherever, but they're just like, I can't do this. I'm just horrible at this. Yeah, I think it's about helping them learn to not tie that failure and that mistake to their identity. Like this is a really hard moment. And this is really frustrating right now. But we can keep trying. And we can take a break and we can come back to it. We can try another way. But you instead of saying, I can't always adding the word yet, because the second you say like, I can't do this, this is too hard, your brains are already shutting off. But once we help teach our kids that growth mindset that like, if we keep trying and we put in effort, we can change the outcome, it feels more hopeful. And it gives them more encouragement to keep trying and to keep going. But to also like acknowledge that crappy feeling like, yeah, this must feel really frustrating for you right now, because all of a sudden they feel seen. And they kind of let their guard down a little bit. And then just kind of helping them just keep trying. And yeah, like, I think one kid say, I can't like in our house, the second our kids is like, I can't do it. I can't do it. We always stop them and say, this is hard right now. Don't say you can't do it. You can say, this is really tricky, or I'm having a hard time. But to say I can't, you're just putting up that wall right away. And then they stop trying. No, absolutely. And then the inner voice is so important for everybody, right? How do you teach your girls and in the book was ways just to how to really, you know, I don't even think kids realize that they're hearing their inner voice for a while, right? Like you kind of, it's just because of automatic thought. And then you have to almost then teach, okay, what are you hearing in this about when you don't make it when this friend tells you they don't want to play with you or when you wanted to your brother didn't share his toy or whatever it is. How do you even start that? And how would you equip the parent in that situation? Absolutely, I think it's about practice. So we do have our 30 day confidence system, which is daily activities that kind of help kids kind of pick up that they are talking to themselves in a certain way. So we like, we have that critic voice in our head, and we have that coach voice in our head, we all have that. Now, our goal is to try to turn down the volume on our critic voice and turn up the volume on our coach voice. So kind of helping our kids like we have a lot of activities to in the confidence system that kind of helps them think about a situation and then think about what did you tell yourself in that situation? Because a lot of times we're not paying attention to it. Oh, this is so embarrassing. I suck at this. And then they they write it down and they realize like, Oh, was that was that a coach voice or was that a critic voice? Now, if another really helpful thing for me with my kids is I always tell them like, what would you tell your best friend that failed this test? Or what would you tell your best friend if they went through that situation? Because we need to speak to ourselves the way we would speak to our best friend. And we need to become our biggest cheerleader. So I think just kind of helping kids like at the end of the day or when they're going through a situation saying like, what did you tell yourself in that moment? Like for example, my daughter was running cross country. She was so excited to do it. She didn't come in close to being top 10. And when she finished, I just asked her like, Oh, what were you telling yourself while you were running? What were you telling yourself in those moments? And just making sure that they were helpful thoughts. And if they weren't helping her kind of reframe it like, okay, try to tell yourself this next time, like what else could you say that would kind of be more beneficial? Do you feel like telling yourself that you were so slow and you weren't doing good was helping you or making you feel worse? And then they kind of start thinking about it. And I think it just comes with practice. Like if every day, like if for 30 days, every day you're thinking about what you're telling yourself in those crummy moments, you start to become more aware of it, especially at this age. And I think it's also for them, like as parents, like, we aren't perfect, we are going to respond in ways that we don't want to respond. And we are going to make mistakes and letting our kids see those mistakes, but also seeing how we repair and how we respond when certain situations happen that that are great. I love that. They pick up a lot of how we respond for sure. And you know, and once you're point, we don't get to write the first time and that's okay. And this is why you've been so impactful. I know for a lot of parents is because you're filling that gap of, you know, we've got so much on our plates and you just sometimes don't know what to say. So you're helping us know what to say in response to these situations and navigate. But it is, I think the best experience I can think about with this is, you know, my soon to be eight year old, soon to be five year old, we're racing in the yard. And my little guy tells himself, I heard him verbalize it, I am fast like a cheetah. And he believes it. And he is that positive self talk. And now my older one, he is getting distracted by his brother. I got to be faster than him. I can't, you know, and it is the age that it just really dropped upon us. But it's a beautiful comparison to everything what you're saying. Absolutely. I think that's a perfect, perfect example. Yeah. And I think it's also important to also recognize for some kids, it does come easier than it does for others. Like some kids are naturally more timid and more quiet than others. So some kids do need a little bit more practice with that as well. And just kind of acknowledging that like, because I know a lot of parents too, like even myself with one of my kids, I used to think like, man, why is she so negative? Why is she always thinking about the negative side of these things? But that's also just like, that's a natural tendency that negativity bias. But for some kids, it's a little bit stronger than for others. And it doesn't mean that they can't get there. It just means that they need a little bit more help and a little bit more guidance with it. And that's, that's normal. Like we're all, we're all different. We're all wired differently. And I think that is having my two boys being so different. Very true. I have thought, oh, gosh, is this, I don't want him. I know he pulls negative. I don't want that to be, you know, his default, you know, but it is where you pour in, you do more equipping. And, you know, he's older, he's able to understand and deal with this. And then my cheetah runner, you know, he's okay for the time being, but, you know, they can absorb what your older child is learning. I love all this. What is some other feedback that parents have given you with just over about your assets? Yeah, I think a lot of people have said that it's helped them too as adults, which I found really interesting because it has like, I have taken the lessons that I've learned as an adult and kind of packaged them in a way that kids can understand. But I've had a lot of parents reach out and say that it's also helped them, which is really cool because it's kind of like a family, family effort. And a lot of the feedback too is that their kids are opening up, which is really cool. And when I wrote this resource, I did it to help kids learn these skills. And I wasn't thinking too much about like, it starting conversations between parents and kids. So that's been a really interesting and a really neat outcome of it as well that I've been getting a lot of feedback from parents as well. Well, we love it in our house and we're very appreciative of it. And we asked all our guests this question. So I'm going to ask you and put your mom hat on here. It is, what is something you wish you knew about motherhood that you didn't know before your mom, but you do now that you could tell yourself? Oh, this is, this is a tricky one. What I wish I knew about motherhood that you can't follow a book. Things are going to come and you have to do what you think is best for your kids, your way. I think one of the hardest, I will say one of the hardest things for me, I think when I had my first child is that I was kind of listening to what other people were doing around me and people saying like, you have to do this, you have to, you have to do this with your child, but it didn't feel right for me for my child. So I feel like that put a lot of stress on me as a mom. And just to kind of take your time to figure out what works for you and what works for your child, because not everyone's the same and not every parenting strategy is going to work for every child. So I think that's a big one. And knowing that like you're going to mess up, like we are all doing this for the first time, we're going to make mistakes. And that's okay. It's how we repair from it as well. I love that. Now, where can our listeners find you and get this resource? Yeah, so mysecretplaybook.com. We have our book and our confidence system on there. We do have a paperback now, which we just launched a couple of weeks ago. Which is exciting. Yeah, which I'm excited about. And then I do have another book coming out very soon within the next couple of weeks. And that one is heavily focused on social skills. So yeah, so you can find me on mysecretplaybook.com. And we'll have you back and we'll talk about your second book because this is, I think, such a great introduction to you and what we need for our kids in this time. But I'll link everything listeners. Renee, thank you so much for what you're doing, for your lived experience, happy to help us. We're all for it. And we're really excited to have you now in our arsenal of parenting tools. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. So nice chatting. All right, listeners, I'll be back next week, but I'll link everything in the notes. Hope you guys have a wonderful week. Returnal mental health is as important as physical health. The Previous Lions podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.