120. Jess Kane: Your Cells Are Leaking, Here's How to Fix Them

Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21 and trained in board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system no longer focused on disease management but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease and most importantly, extend your health span. In this episode of Extend, I'm going to sit down with Jessica Tain. She's one of the founders of BodyBio and she's going to explore with us one of the most overlooked foundations of health is the integrity of your cell membranes. Now, this is something not even I've been really thinking about a lot, but my conversation with Jessica really taught me that the cell membranes, which is the two lipid layers that surround every cell, are incredibly important for us to keep healthy. If you've ever felt like you've been inflamed, foggy, or depleted despite doing everything right in your health routine, this conversation is probably going to explain to you why. We're going to break down how modern toxins, infections, and stress quietly damage the lipid structures that protect every single cell and right rebuilding those membranes may be the key to better energy, detoxification, and even a metabolic health. We're going to get into the science of phosphatidylcholine, PC, and how it supports the brain, the liver, the mitochondria, and why most of us may now actually be deficient. And what can happen when the cell membranes become leaky? Jessica and I discussed the original PC-1 protocol, the role of phospholipids in repairing the gut liver axis, and practical steps anyone can take to support cellular resistance. If you want a clear, science-driven understanding of how cellular repair influences longevity, without all the noise, this episode gives you a roadmap for restoring your energy, rebuilding your membranes, and protecting your health in a toxic modern world. Jess, thanks for joining me today to talk about. Hi, how are you? I've been so interested in this topic for a while now, and quite honestly, it's not a lot of research or not a lot of really good documentation around this and any of my medical books. No, not medical books. It would be just basic biology classes, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, but I think that the translation from basic biology to medicine is kind of what you've pioneered over the last few years with body bio, and I'm really excited to bring this relatively kind of new topic in my mind, not in your mind, because you've been in it for three generations in your family, to my audience. Thanks for joining. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so we're going to be talking about phosphatidocoline today. Predominantly phosphatidocoline, a little bit of more about phospholipids in the cell membrane. Phospholipids in general. Okay, so we're going to start at like literally basic fifth grade knowledge. Easy. Okay. What is the bilipid membrane? What is that? It is a membrane that protects every single one of our cells. Imagine it is like a bubble. When little kids blow bubbles, it is that delicate, and it has both an inner layer and an outer layer, and they work with each other. The choline head groups are on the outside, and the fatty acid tails are on the inside. When phosphatidocoline is the predominant phospholipid, over 50% of the outer layer is comprised of phosphatidocoline. In there you also have cholesterol, proteins, the electron transport chain, all of these beautiful things that happen on the membrane, but the most critical part of the membrane and the most predominant part of the membrane are phospholipids. Perfect. Great explanation. So imagine a bubble, like the kids blow, that outer layer with the super delicate layer of that bubble. Basically every single one of our cells. And inside of there is our nucleus and our mitochondria and all the things we talk about. But all of that is encased in this membrane layer that has two components to it, the outside and the inside. And the outside is made up of what is called phosphatidocoline. Inside and outside are made up of phospholipids, and phosphatidocoline, you say, is the one that is on the outside of that, dominantly. It is the one that is almost protecting the cell the most. Right. Exactly. And then you have the whole roof of the cell, if you will. But then you have all these other things kind of stuck in that membrane, like you said, like, you know, there's these proteins and there's other channels, receptors, everything's kind of stuck in that membrane, right? And that's how the cell interacts and communicates with the other cells and the outside environment. Pulls off every single biochemical process in the body or between those cells. And that happens literally on the membrane. So our DNA is like a blueprint for Slippedon's work. It has this guide for what your health should be, but it doesn't actually have any actions. The actions are actually happening on that cellular membrane. Wow. It's so incredible. The biology of it is incredible. And then, you know, you think about this membrane, like it has to be made out of something. Where do we, where do the components of this membrane come from? Well, a lot of them are made endogenously in the body, and then they are fed exogenously by what we feed our body and the nutrients that we put in our body. So we're constantly making phospholipids in the body. The problem in today's world is that environmental toxins, viruses, chemicals, heavy metals, all of these things are literally attacking the lipids that make up our cell membrane and breaking them down so you have these holes and issues and almost this concept of a leaky cell just like we have leaky gut. And it's at that point that those bad things are getting into the cell. They should be floating in the extracellular matrix, but they're actually getting into the cell through the lipid membrane and they're attacking our nucleus, our mitochondria and all these different things within the cell. And this is why our cells are getting unhealthy. Yeah. It's because stuff that's supposed to be outside of the cell is going through these leaks in our cell. Yeah. And it's fascinating that the biochemical processes that happen in our body are unbelievable. Right. You know that from working in it for so long. And when our cells are under stress, they actually start to pull in more cholesterol into a stress cell. So there's so many layers to the bad things that happened when our cell membrane is damaged. Yeah. So can I ask you though, like you said, exogenous, we take in exogenous materials to make this lipid bilayer. What are we getting in our diet, for example, that helps us make this bilayer? The most important thing is fats. Fats, okay. And none of us are eating enough fats. And this is not fats from avocado or olive oil. This is meats. It is raw dairy is a really important source. The best source of phospholipids comes from egg yolks. Wow. So we're eating eggs for years where people are eating egg whites for. And we are devoid from putting in those exogenous outside our body, the nutrients in so that our body can make enough phospholipids. Okay. And so what are some of the nutrients in like egg yolks and dairy and meats that people are missing out if you're not eating those? It's the phospholipids. It's the phospholipids. You're actually getting them from specifically from egg yolks. Yeah. So how do vegetarians get these? You can get them from soy. Okay. Yeah. Soy is a good source, although we know soy can have issues being clean. But when you can have clean soy, that's a really great source. Seeds and nuts, another good source. Okay. Yeah. And then choline is a part of this journey too. It is. Yeah. So the phospholipid, the molecule is a choline head group in two little fatty acid tails. The choline head group will actually split off and add choline to the body when it's needed. So phosphotide choline is a fascinating molecule because when it's digested, it will go through the digestive tract into the bloodstream for cellular delivery because it's truly when it's made liposomally, that's meaning it gets through to the bloodstream going directly to the cells. When the body needs choline, it will actually break off and add choline when needed. It's fascinating. What does the body need choline for? Energy, brain function. Yeah. I mean, it's the precursor to acetylcholine, which powers our brains. Yeah. So not only are these molecules protecting our cell, but they're also being used for creating like acetylcholine and other processes. So many processes. It's fascinating. It's such a versatile nutrient. And I think we overlook it because we think we are making enough. And I think that the issue is now that the lipids are under attack and we are no longer making enough. Yeah. Yeah. So the requirement for the amount of this lipid has gone up due to toxins basically. To today's world. Yeah. So can we talk about that? Like how do toxins create damage in these? What is the, how's a toxin involved in this process? In the way that my grandparents were researching this in the 1990s, the toxins are going in and they're breaking through the cell membrane. They're damaging the cell membrane. It depends on what that toxin is. It could also be something like Lyme. Lyme spirochetes will actually scavenge the choline head group and steal them so that they can survive. But then they're also damaging the cell membrane, which is particularly what we see in neurological Lyme, which I have experienced myself so I can speak to it. But it's viruses, bacteria, all of these things are breaking down the cell membrane. These toxicants are getting into the cell. They're embedding themselves in our nuclear and mitochondrial DNA and they're altering our epigenetics. Oh, that's crazy. So let's say you have an Achilles heel, right? We all do. Mine's thyroid. My Achilles heel is thyroid. Lyme disease went in, damaged my cell membranes, got in there, started scavenging all the different organelles. Thyroid, Hashimoto's turned on earlier than maybe it was supposed to. Whatever your Achilles heel is. And we're seeing that now, I think more than ever. And you're talking about all kinds of toxins like toxins, even microplastics and BPA, PFOS. Benzene, toluene, these things that you know you're getting out through therapeutic plasma exchange. We're seeing these things and they are triggering epigenetic changes, causing cancers, causing so many different issues, neurological diseases, all of this. Oh my gosh. And so basically the toxic environment we live in right now, which obviously we have 150,000 toxins, in our environment we did not have even just six, seven generations ago, right? It's crazy how much toxic exposure is now a real Achilles heel using your words of our health, damaging our cell walls through this, probably being the main mechanism. I think so. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, there's 40 trillion cells in a male, they estimate 32 trillion in a female. We're constantly making new cells. Cells are constantly dying. They need to pull from the resources that we have in our bodies and we just don't have those resources. Environmental toxicants are lowering them. All of these things are kind of creating this mess that we've gotten into today. So I mean, why not just eat more eggs and that solves a problem? You can. They're also high in sphingomyelin, which can lead to cardiovascular issues. Oh, I see. So sphingomyelin is another phospholipid that you don't want too much of. It has a role in health, but you don't want too much of it. But my grandfather did eat a lot of raw egg yolks. Yeah, I do too. I eat probably about two raw egg yolks a day. Two raw egg yolks a day. I do. Got it. So I mean, you're getting a good amount of egg in your diet. I am, yeah. And I still take two tablespoons of PCA day. You still take two tablespoons of PCA day. So what's the difference? Maybe we can kind of talk about, you mentioned sphingomyelin, right? What's the difference between phosphazidocolein, sphingomyelin, phosphazidocerine, which is another phospholipid? There's all these phospholipids out there. Why are some of them healthy and some not healthy? I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with phosphatidocerine. Phosphatidocerine will be made endogenously in the body when you take phosphatidocolein. It will actually, there's an enzymatic conversion process from PC. So all the phosphatidocerine that's actually sold is enzymatically converted from PC. Oh, that's interesting. Interesting. Most PC comes from soylessethane. So it's a derivative of soylessethane and then you isolate the phospholipids. That's what makes our so unique. My grandfather determined how to do it in 2002. When he did that, he knew that from soy you could also get phosphatidolethanolamine and phosphatidolenosatol. These are critical for mitochondrial membranes and for cardiolipin production within the mitochondria. So these are some of the phospholipids that are on the inner membrane, but they're really important for some of the organelles within the cell. So mitochondria are similar, their membrane is similar to our inner membrane. Exactly. So they have a different membrane structure and it's the same thing with sphingomyelin that plays certain roles in the body in different ways. Predominantly, you will hear mostly about phosphatidolcerine because it's been linked to better brain function and phosphatidolcholine because it is the most important phospholipid and probably because I've been talking about it nonstop for the last eight years. Yeah, you've been talking a lot about this. And so I think there's not enough information that people have heard. And so I'm so glad that you came on the podcast and give us everything we need to know about phosphatidolcholine today. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, so what percent of humans are deficient in phosphatidolcholine? Everyone. 100% of people. Look at how diseases occurring. Disease comes from our cell membrane. Diseases occur on the cell membrane. We are, I mean, look at 20-year-olds getting colon cancer. This isn't normal, right? And I think that we are, this world, my grandfather had a wonderful quote when he wrote this book called the detox book back in 2004. I think the FDA took it off the market. Really? Yeah, it was a little contentious. It made this wonderful statement that our lipids are under attack in today's world. And this is back in the early 2000s. I can't even imagine what he would think about the world that we live in today. Exactly. And now I think that because of people like you and things that we're doing, we know now more than ever, he just saw this back in the 1990s. Yeah. Was that prior to the low-fat movement or after the low-fat movement? It was pretty much during it. During the low-fat movement. Yeah, I mean, the low-fat movement is probably like 1980s, 1990s. Yes, yes, you're right. But I think it's still pervasive. It still is. You'll see. I know. Even in baby formula, they're using low-fat milk. I mean, it's really crazy. Yeah, I just don't get it. It's crazy how this whole low-fat thing, the effects of it have lasted for now, it was like 50 years. Yeah. And we're still seeing, they're still selling skim milk and they're still... And the replacement of partially hydrogenated oils and chemically treated, these are not foods, these are not nutrients. This is chemically made foods that were then introduced to the body. Then they cause all these issues because you're not feeding the body those whole nutrients that the body actually needs. Right, right. And I think all these... This low-fat movement was created to prevent heart disease, right? And the side effect of... It didn't do that, number one, but number two, the side effect of it is we've depleted our body of the phospholipids that we need to create cell membranes. And to regulate cholesterol. And to regulate cholesterol. To regulate HDL and LDL, all of these things. Lipid metabolism is... The backbone of lipid metabolism is the cell membrane. And I don't think we give it enough credit or enough attention. And I'd really love to start seeing some studies being done on that. They have done studies. I mean, at the research level, there's over 5,000 studies about phosphatidylcholine, but coming out with it to the mainstream, to the masses, I think is so critically important. How does the cell wall and the cell membrane affect lipid metabolism? Can you take us through the science of that? It's essentially the basis for it. It's the actions, it's performing the actions which are regulating all the different lipoproteins within the cell. So when something is under stress and under attack, it's going to start pulling more cholesterol actually into the cell and create more inflammation, cellular inflammation, essentially. And building up all over the body, you have arterial wall buildup of all of these different lipoproteins and so many different health issues come from that. We did an amazing study this year with a mitochondrial research lab where they were using in a mouse study they could actually see under stress conditions, cholesterol being pulled into these cells and when they introduced body biopc, pulled the cholesterol out and started to balance everything out. So interesting. It's amazing. Yeah. So a lot of what I researched around with phosphatidylcholine was around detoxification. So I think we do a procedure called plasma exchange where we're just physically removing people's plasma which contains the plasma portion of the toxins in your body. But when I talk about this procedure to our patients, I always say, yes, we're going to get rid of a lot of your toxins that's floating on your plasma. The amount that's floating on your plasma is only a fraction of what's inside of your organs inside of your cells. And so we need to start the repair process at the same time. Is that your perception of this? 100%. I'm actually doing TPE next year. Amazing. Mainly because I've been through mold exposure, Lyme. I did an amazing test. It's no longer available. But when I looked at where the mold and the different bacteria and toluene and benzene were sitting, it was linked to early onset Parkinson's. It is. And so I do everything I can to optimize my health. One thing that I think is really important to this conversation is repairing and taking care of the cell membrane ahead of time and then afterwards as ongoing. So TPE is wonderful for that filtering out, for the cleansing out, but you need the reconstruction crew to go back in and replace and rebuild and repair so that our cells are more resilient to this stuff moving forward. Absolutely. And so for me, whenever I talk about toxic exposure to my patients, I always say there's a three-part program. Part one is reducing your exposure. Great. It's so important. We've got to get the exposure reduced, right? And there's many, many ways to do this. I actually have a guide of 52 weeks of decreasing your toxic exposure. Amazing. I'll send it to you. I'd love to see it. It works really well. And you can find this on my website, DrShaw.com, slash toxins. And so detoxing your lifestyle is critical. Yeah. If you're not going to do that, don't even think about all the other stuff, right? Yeah, I agree. Don't waste your money. Exactly. And then the second piece of this is removing the toxins from your body. Yep. TPE is kind of like the big, giant sledgehammer doing that, but there's other ways of doing this too, right? So can you talk about some of the other ways of just kind of getting the toxins out of your organs and getting them out of your body? And this is where it's really interesting, because I just got back from this biohacking conference and we're talking about the cold plunges and the saunas and the peptides and all of these things. But what's really fascinating that we see is biohackers tend to have actually the worst detoxification. I agree. Yeah. Because they're releasing the toxins during the sauna. They don't actually consume the right fats, phosphatidylcholine and phospholipids, to actually remove it from the body. And this whole kind of conception that people have had of using binders like charcoal and things like that to remove isn't healthy either. But what we know from observational case series that we've been seeing and anecdotal data from doctors for over 30 years is that phosphatidylcholine goes in and removes this stuff. It starts to help the process of removal. So if you're doing high dose, like two tablespoons of PC a day, supporting the gallbladder, supporting all the bile flow that you need and the function. So I'll take it with Tudka, with Ox bile to really make sure I'm absorbing all of my fats. You will see decreased levels of heavy metals, decreased levels of microplastics. Interesting. He did a four month test, two tablespoons of PC a day, microplastics test four times. He had a 67% reduction in micro nanoplastics. That was incredible. That's incredible. And that was his only lifestyle intervention. Which tests are you guys using for microplastics? He was using the plastic docs for that, arrow labs, which I like. I think that the best is we're not going to be doing brain biopsies on people to check for microplastics and nanoplastics levels. So we have to use what we can. But I think that that's a critically important part of detoxification. We are not getting enough healthy fats to help remove a lot of these things from the body. So interesting. So you mentioned sauna is one way to remove the toxins, but critical to do that with PC on board as well. With PC. And if you want to really supercharge it, glutathione, exogenous glutathione can be really, really helpful, particularly for heavy metals as well. Yeah, I agree. And then I share your sentiments about binders. They have so many side effects. It's kind of a direct way of going after these through the gut, but really it's not doing anything at a cellular level. And so really focusing in on a cellular level of removing toxins using PC is going to be fantastic. There's also some anecdotal series around getting the toxins out of your fat by using like radio frequency on the abdomen. I like that. And so that's another way of kind of mobilizing the toxins. The toxins. The toxins really live there. Yes. That's one of those things where they're really, that's a huge problem these days, are these forever chemicals and how do we get them out? So how do we start to remove them from the fat, from the adipose tissue and then actually excrete them from the body? I love that. Yeah. So think about that radio frequency therapy, specifically in the abdominal area. I think we hold a lot of toxins in the fat around our abdomen actually. Interesting. Yeah. So and then sauna is another way, anything else you can think of? No. I just make sure that when I'm going in the sauna, I'm doing it purposefully. Right? I want to do it. I want to take the right nutrients before and after I'm in there to replenish the minerals, replenish to the electrolytes, but make sure I'm getting, I take, I'll usually do about a tablespoon of PC and one tadka before I get into the sauna. Tell me what tadka is. Oh, it's a bile acid. It's fascinating. It's been used in Chinese medicine for 300 years. It really helps to restore the bile flow and liver health when our liver is too kind of taxed from having to constantly process and detoxify all of these things in today's world. Your liver is constantly working to detoxify. And when we have too high of a toxic burden, it can really slow down. So tadka goes in and really helps provide the bile flow support so that the bile can process all the foods, all the toxins and particularly the fat. So I actually use it for fat absorption and assimilation to make sure that I'm getting every little ounce of the PC that I'm taking. It also has fascinating roles as a chemical chaperone. So remember how we talked about how those chemicals are going into our nuclear and mitochondrial DNA? It essentially shakes them off. These chemical chaperones, both butyrate and tadka, go in at the cellular level and start to shake that stuff out of ourselves. And then PC goes in to help to remove it. Okay, so this is an incredible detox protocol for everyone that's listening. This is the original. So oftentimes you'll hear of it as the PK protocol or lipid replacement therapy. And that is essentially what this is. Right, okay. And just to highlight the liver and the bile, because I didn't really talk about that, deliver is your main detoxification organ. Basically, it's your liver, kidney and skin for the most part in your gut. And your liver is doing a majority of the job. And it eliminates those toxins through the bile, right? Which then comes out and through your gut. The bile gets secreted from your liver and then it goes into your intestines and then you poop it out basically. But if the bile is not flowing, that's not happening. You're constipated, you have gallstones, you have gallbladder issues. Eventually you're going to get your gallbladder removed. And then you have a whole host of downstream issues from there, particularly for detoxification. Right, exactly. And so the tadka helps the bile to flow. Exactly. And anything else that we can add to this protocol, tadka, phosphatidol, choline, how else can we... So detoxification I like to add in liposomal glutathione. I always add that in as well. And then I use butyrate, which is a short chain fatty acid as well as chemical chaperone. What is the liposomal glutathione doing? Liposomal glutathione is going in and really assisting our master antioxidant. It's going to provide in the right conditions, it's going to provide those antioxidants that we need for detoxifying all of these things. And I think so often for people like myself, if you have methylation issues, low glutathione production, MTHFR, com genes, you have all these different genetic issues, you have problems making enough glutathione. That's definitely been my weakness I've seen. Yeah, I think a lot of people have COMT and MTHFR and they don't even know it. I think I read a statistic saying about 15% of people have MTHFR actually. I'm not surprised. It's more, yeah. Right, absolutely. And so these are all really important pathways that are kind of disabled by these genetic, I don't want to say they're not diseases, they're just genetic abnormalities. Exactly, or genetic precursors, right? It's part of your genetic blueprint. Right, and so this is a way to kind of bypass those genes and support them. And support them, exactly. This episode was brought to you by Next Health, a health optimization and longevity clinic located in Los Angeles, Manhattan, and soon to be opening in Montecito, Nashville, Miami, and many other cities in the United States and Canada. Next Health is the Apple store of wellness where you can optimize your health span and lifespan using cutting edge technology. I actually founded Next Health eight years ago to give my patients a place to go get extensive biomarker testing done and provide them with all the tools that I used to get my health in order. The longevity circuit in Next Health using hyperbaric oxygen, sauna, cryotherapy, and LED light is a game changer. In addition, the doctors at Next Health measure thousands of biomarkers and put into place a longevity optimization plan using advanced tools like ozone, plasma exchange, and peptides. Go to www.next.health to check it out. So okay, so then we're on this detox protocol, right? And we're taking phosphatidylcholine. You said two tablespoons a day? I mean, if you want to do the higher dose, yeah. So if you're going in for therapeutic plasma exchange and you're prepping your body, oftentimes doctors are using, do you ever use PCIVs? Yes. So sometimes they're using PCIVs. IVs are just going to be, it's actually polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine. Body biopc is going to be a more balanced fatty acid profile and the more balanced phospholipid profile in an oral version. It's a little bit easier to get than the IVs, that's for sure. It's going to also help really support the repair. So IVPC really helps with detoxification. Body biopc orally really helps with the detoxification, but it also really goes in for that repair, which is critically important. So you're getting that balance and that normalization ahead of time by using PC. I would also use Tadka. I think ahead of time is really important butyrate, glutathione, that's a really good detox prep. And then afterwards, after you've filtered all that out, you need the reconstruction curve to go back in and provide all the great nutrients. And that's actually when I would also add in balance oil, which is linoleic and alpha-linoleic. So adding in essential fatty acids that are really important for membrane fluidity as well. Right. And where can we get that from? Body biopc. Body biopc. Yeah, we make a cold pressed, very carefully treated. It's the opposite of oxidized seed oils. These are the healthy essential fatty acids that your cell needs to partner well with the phospholipids. Yeah, this is why I was excited to have you on because we are creating these detox protocols now around our plasma exchange. And I really want to create the absolute best protocol because I think that there's so many pieces of this that we've never had before. Now we can definitely do this. And where would the IV phosphatidylcholine fall into this? It's probably prior to the plasma exchange. I like to do it prior. Yeah, so I think a prep. So for me personally, about two, three years ago, I think my six-month-old was getting croup nonstop. And I said to my husband, there's mold in this house. We hired people to come find the mold. It was in our HVAC. I didn't experience many symptoms. I'm such a fine-tuned machine at this point that I know when I'm off. My husband said, that's interesting. You say that. I have floaters in my eyes. I wonder why. We go through life thinking that some of these symptoms are normal, that our babies are just getting croup because of, oh, they're health. And I think we really need to take those symptoms seriously. So we got rid of the mold. But in sitting down with our doctor, that was the point in time in which we started to use IVPC because we really wanted to throw everything we could at it. You can do similar with oral. It takes a long time. It takes about nine months to a year of a high dose. Both of these things, as you know, they're pricey. They're investments in our health. For me, there's nothing more important than my health so that I can show up so that I can be there for my family so that I can be there for what we're doing in our mission. So we decided to throw out at both the IV protocol. So we did IVPC, glutathione, sodium phenylbutyrate, leukovorin as part of lipid replacement therapy. I did eight. I did those IVs eight times. I've done IVPC before in the past. Just when my grandfather said, hey, you're looking a little sluggish. I'm going to give you some. And then along with it, I was doing the high dose PC at two tablespoons a day. And I continue at that high dose because I just truly believe that that's what makes me feel good. I noticed I was recently traveling in London when we first met and I didn't have any PC with me. And about five days in, I was like, why do I just feel so often brain fogged? I didn't have those fats. Those are central nutrients that I needed. But I really think you throw IVs in there when you are dealing with a chronic illness, when you are dealing with a severe issue, a severe mitochondrial dysfunction, cell danger response, somebody who's really ill. Yeah. No, I agree. I think these things, IV versus oral, they kind of work hand in hand. And to your point, it is expensive to do the IV one. So it's always good to have kind of the maintenance and also the ability to oral prior to and after any type of detoxification protocol. And it's that ongoing. You can take the oral every day. I go in now for lipid replacement therapy about two times a year, one to two times a year, and then I just stay on my high dose oral. Yeah. And then the high dose oral that you're on, do you take it in the morning, in the evening? How does it work? Some people do find it to be stimulating for their brain. I don't. So I do morning after breakfast. I always like to take it with food and then I'll do evening after dinner. Okay. Yeah. But most people like to take their toes pretty much breakfast lunch because they can give them energy, really kind of turn their brain on. Interesting. So speaking of brain health too, I mean, another big piece of this that we need to talk about is the acetylcholine production. So can you talk about that? Why is that important and how does that mechanism work? That I, you know, I don't know exactly how that mechanism works, but what I do know is that phospholipids in general will provide the right building blocks for acetylcholine production in the brain, which is critical for energy, critical for brain function. So you'll often hear people who really hone in on, on brain health talking about acetylcholine, but there's nothing that we can take orally to, like, to introduce acetylcholine to the body. We wouldn't want to do that. There have been some things that have claimed to like alpha GPC or citicoline. These are actually precursors to phosphatidolcholine production. So in my mind, why not just take phosphatidolcholine? I've never experimented with them, but the phospholipids will provide the right environment for acetylcholine to be introduced and increased. Yeah. For a lot of people with a brain fog, this could be a really great thing to try. First of all, is, is taking phosphatidolcholine and seeing if that helps to improve the brain fog both through the cellular repair mechanism and through the enhanced acetylcholine production. This is why I talk about it as the most critical nutrient is because it's not just going to help with your cardiovascular health, decrease your fatty liver, help your GI issues. 80% of the gastric mucosa is phosphatidolcholine. It's not just going to help with your brain fog or with your baby brain after you've had a child or with detoxification. It's all of these things. 80% of the gastric barrier is phosphatidolcholine. Yep. Really. Isn't that amazing? That's interesting. Yeah. And so if we are not making enough and talk about, you know, post-menopausal women, the decrease in estrogen decreases that PEMT enzyme, which is actually making phosphatidolcholine. Even more so, they need it. So as we age, our ability to synthesize it from foods decreases. Babies are born with a ton of PC and very little spengomilin, and that starts to reverse as we get older. Got it. Yeah, we can't make enough and we need a lot more than we used to because of the toxic exposure. 100%. So it's going to need to be supplemented in some form. I think so. People often ask me, like, for a healthy person, what's their dose? And I say, they're not healthy. I hate to be like, and I never want to leave with fear because for me, it's all about resilience. And how we make our body stronger. But who is healthy these days? Exactly. You know, and we don't know what's going on underneath our skin and the front. And so many people say, oh, well, she was fine. And then she got diagnosed with breast cancer. Come on, we know that's been developing for 10, 15 years before that. Yeah. You know, 90% of Americans have some level of metabolic disease right now. And so there's a big role phosphatidolcholine plays in metabolic disease as well, right? Oh, yeah. Big time. And so there's a lot of regulation, which is why I take these healthy fats and consume them after a meal because it will also help stabilize blood sugar. Yeah. And so for people that are having, you know, troubles stabilizing their blood sugar, this could be. Everybody, if it's 90%. 90% of people, right? Exactly. This could be a potential great additive to that whole journey of stabilizing your blood sugar as well. And then do you need to be on this forever? I mean, talk about the, talk about the, how long should you take phosphatidolcholine? I mean, I don't want to sound like a salesperson because I'm truly not. I mean, our mission, my grandfather's mission, my grandfather really felt when he got my husband and I involved in the business. He sat down with us and said, PC needs to be in the hand of every single person in the world. He actually thought we had to turn it into a drug and the doctors, allopathic doctors would then prescribe it to their patients. And my husband said, I don't think so. We have this time more now than ever where people are exploring their health, people are getting to the root cause of their issues, they're taking their health into their own hands. And so I hate to be the person to say we all need it, but we do. It's kind of like vitamin D. It is. Like, you know, you just can't, most people are deficient in vitamin D. It has to be some way to get it into your system. It's such a critical nutrient. I feel like this is probably another one of those vitamin D stories where we're just not going to make enough. And we need to think about how do we supplement this in a form and in a way that supports our detox pathways, our Cetocoline production, our gastric barrier. There's so many different solutions here that come from this. But unfortunately, unlike vitamin D, there's no real way to measure your level of PC. Not yet. We are working on it. I think one day we'll figure it out. Right now we do a really interesting test that looks at the red blood cell fatty acid composition. Okay. So this is looking at the membrane fluidity and structure and the buildup of some of these. When we hear about vegetable oils and seed oils, we're thinking about renegade fats, very long chain fats, these fats that build up and damage our cells, cause our cells to look like shriveled raisins instead of grapes essentially. And we see consistently that people have really odd levels, particularly those who have been taking fish oil for a very long time, have suppressed levels of Omega-6, which is critically important for certain pathways in the body and the essential fatty acid pathway. But we are trying to figure out a way to really measure, first for practitioners, we'll introduce it to a practitioner audience and then direct to consumer so that they can understand. But it's a complex process. There's cells everywhere. The cells in the body are different compositions of phospholipids. So how you test may not be indicative of your circulating plasma levels, but how are the cells in the brain and the cells in the liver doing? Right. Like any blood cell, people have to remember, you're really inferring data from what's in your plasma, what's going on in your white blood cells and your red blood cells and your platelets because that's all that's in your bloodstream. You don't have a heart cell in your bloodstream. Exactly. You don't have a brain cell in your bloodstream. So you're really inferring from what's in your blood to what's going on in the rest of the body. And could doctors have to use that information along with the symptoms, along with all these other tests that you do to put together the full picture and say, okay, this is how we're going to tackle these issues? Exactly. How is this product also beneficial for skin health? I mean, skins are the largest organ. What are our organs made of? Cells. So people constantly comment, you're 42 years old. What are you doing? What are you taking? I don't use toxins. I don't inject myself with things. Our skin is reflective of how healthy our cells are. And so when you give the cells the right food, essential fatty acids and phospholipids, they will appear more plump and youthful. And so I think these are critical. I mean, it sounds like snake oil, doesn't it? It sounds like it's a jack of all trades. It's doing everything in the body. But we talk about cellular health these days in biohacking and we talk about peptides and NAD and these mitochondrial optimizers. And I think it's just so much more simple. I think when we provide the body with the right essential nutrients, the body looks and feels good. I think the critical reason we have so much disease right now, there's twos. We don't have enough of the nutrients that we need and we're getting too much toxic exposure in our day to day. Those two are so out of balance right now. And we just get a little bit more balance. Our body wants to be in a natural state of health. It's going to fix everything on its own. Exactly. We can create that balance for it. Exactly. I agree. And for those who have the toxin exposure and when they can, remove it. For me, I'm mainly doing TPE for Lyme. I want to get rid of these spirochetes that keep coming back whenever there's periods of stress or a viral exposure. And so doing everything I can to really optimize and make myself the most resilient, I think is critically important. Absolutely. You mentioned Lyme. You mentioned mold. It has a lot of different toxins. And so those toxins for your kids can result in symptoms. And some people are resistant to symptoms like you are. But just because you're resistant to symptoms doesn't mean you shouldn't check for mold. You shouldn't eliminate the mold. Doesn't mean it's not affecting your epigenetics either. And that is very true. And so I think there's many toxins besides just the ones we're talking about here that are out there. And so I think another kind of global thought to have is we should reduce our level of exposure to all the toxins, but also always be mitigating against the damage of it. Always. I think that that gives you a true element of success. I think it gives you an action plan for how you can go through today's world feeling really good, not being scared, not being fearful. It's the avoidance piece. It's the making sure you're doing everything that you can in a healthy way. Don't stress your system out. In a healthy way to avoid these things and then adding in the supports so that we can live a more resilient life. Exactly. So you're the toxin expert. I wouldn't say I'm a toxin expert. I like to be a PC expert. A PC expert. Healthy fat expert. Yes, healthy fat expert. What are some other pieces of advice you can give just globally around getting enough healthy fats and looking for healthy fats in your day to day diet? I think don't be afraid of fats. Consume soy, consume nuts. I make seed creams, so I'll take seeds. I'll soak them in electrolytes, a little bit of electrolytes in water for 24 hours. Then I drain them and I grind it up into like a paste. I'll add that into my smoothies. Those are beautiful essential fatty acids. Really healthy fats and critical for women. The whole concept of seed cycling is essentially that. So getting in those right fats so that our hormones can be balanced are really important. I eat eggs every day. I consume dairy. I think in today's world, we're not feeling good. The first place we go is like, is there a food issue? Is there food intolerance of food allergy? And then all of a sudden we're cutting out dairy. We're cutting out, I mean, gluten is a whole other issue. But in the event that we're cutting out some of our protein sources, we need this protein to make and synthesize PC in the body. And so those are the healthy fats, but there's also unhealthy fats that we should talk about. You mentioned seed oils. I think there's a lot of controversy around seed oils that people talk about in social media about. There's no evidence that you get more inflammation from the seed oils. But I think the story is much bigger than inflammation. What they do is they drive these issues at the level of the cell membrane. They drive these red blood cell fatty acid issues and they build up these abnormal proteins and lipids and renegade fats and those cause inflammation. And so they're causing this cellular stress when you're consuming these oxidized oils. The point and the interesting thing is PC and healthy essential fatty acids will go in and replace the oxidized lipids in the cell, which helps to really make them healthier. But when you consume fried foods and vegetable oils and oils that are not carefully treated, this inflammation is going to happen. I think that the way people read research is fascinating. And the way is particularly if they're not a clinician, so I get to speak all day to clinicians like yourself who see it in real life and see how these seed oils are driving problems. So I think the people who argue on the other side are looking at it from the lens of sure these are essential fatty acids and they're really important. It's all about how these things are treated. It's about how they are, if they're oxidized or not essentially. Exactly. Yeah. But research is one of those places where it's really tough to look at the two sides of this story and have a nuanced discussion. I've seen it before, people just get so heated about it. And the reality is is we're eating oxidized oils. These are affecting our cells. It's causing cellular inflammation. You can go in and fix it, but you need to avoid and you need to add in the good. Yeah, absolutely. And there's a couple of social media influencers I'm thinking of right now. They're shouting from the rooftops about seed oils being safe and they're fine. And they're talking about studies that, yeah, maybe there are some studies that show that a particular oil does not cause more inflammation, but they're missing all the nuance before and after, right? We look at it with such a myopic view, I think. And we look at a headline and we pull that headline and we pull the excerpt from the abstract and they use it in social media, particularly for these hooks and really to get people into it. But when you see it as a clinician and you really look at the nuance that it's causing within our health, it's a very different picture. I can tell you the number of patients I've seen that we cut seed oils out and their health dramatically changes. Yeah. And you see it in their biomarkers, you'll see it in the way they feel. It's one of those kind of, to me, it's a fundamental of diet is to just cut out anything ultra-process, anything that we make in a factory. 100%. And I think that we look at, you can't even understand it, but when you look at like a heavily processed potato chip that's soaked in an oxidized vegetable oil and then you're consuming that, it's essentially breaking down your cell membrane. There are, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to essential fatty acids because essential fatty acids are still going to come from flaxseed oil. Safflower oil, sunflower oil. And you can get them in the right sources. So we make one, Uddo's makes, Barley's makes some that you've probably seen in places like Whole Foods for 25 years. These are essential fatty acids that are really good for our body. So eating those in moderation, I think is really helpful too. Yeah, fantastic. Well, a lot of new information and great information. So if you could give the audience just three pieces of device around PC in what to do next, what are those? Just, you know, if you feel that you are somebody who is healthy, just start on a two capsule a day dose. It's either two soft gels or half a teaspoon a day. See how you feel. Give it a try. And I think stick with it for three to six months. Then you can stop and see how you feel. And I think you'll notice a real difference. If you're someone who is dealing with chronic stress, health issues or chronic illness, you're going to want a higher dose. I think that there's no harm in loading the body with a higher dose at first and then tapering back down to a maintenance dose. But I just encourage people to give it a try. People are so willing to try every health fad and trend that's out there. And this is something that's not sexy. It's, you know, a simple biological nutrient that is so critical for our bodies. And if you've kind of tried everything or if you're just even starting your health journey and you're just dipping your toes in, I think it's the best place to start. I love it. I love it. Where can people find some of this stuff? BodyBio.com. We sell internationally and yeah, you can, all of our socials, we are there. It's a true family business. My brother is the head of customer service. My brother-in-law is involved. My sister's involved. Everybody's involved in the business, running it with my husband and I. And so you'll get real humans actually taking your issue and what you're experiencing into consideration and helping you through it. So, yeah. I love it that you guys have been working those for three generations now. And it comes from real biochemistry that your grandfather did. It really does. He had a true passion for helping people because he experienced it himself. So he had heavy metal toxicity. It was chronic fatigue diagnosis. He went to the ends of the earth to figure out why. What's the root cause of this and how do I fix it? And through that, he developed BodyBio. I love it. And Jess, do you have social media as well? I do, yes. I just came. Yeah. So K-A-N-E is my last name now. I'm Berman and I'm just going to throw all the names out there. But you can find me at Jess Kane on social handles. Right. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you like this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and is always important to seek their guidance.