Replay: Lego’s Grown Up Gamble

Hey everyone, Aaron here. This is a replay of our popular LEGO episode from early in the season. We got to sit down with Leo Battersby, who was instrumental in building Mattel Creations, which is the adult collectibles line for Mattel. And he came on and talked to us about how LEGO is similarly shifting to adult collectors. Things have been happening with LEGO since this episode came out. There were a couple of individuals in the Bay Area that set the world record for building the Lego map in under five hours, which I guess is kind of a big deal. Guinness is verifying it or they did verify it. There's also a guy in California who used pasta, little pieces of pasta to buy Lego kits and take out all the valuable Lego and fill it up with macaroni, I guess, and seal it back up and then exchange it for refunds. And allegedly, I guess, but he was sitting on $34,000 of profits until he got caught. So that's an interesting one. And they've had the releases and things like that, which you can check out on your own. But right now, check out our Lego episode. It's a fun one. Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. We were thinking about a topic for today's episode, and then it just clicked. Let's talk about Lego. That's right, those colorful little blocks that are fun to play with and painful to step on. We're giving them our full attention. And the reason is that the Lego company, until somewhat recently, has built its entire identity around kids. Learning, creativity, imagination for kids. And suddenly, here come the nostalgic grown-ups who want Lego too. And they have the big bucks. We're going to decide whether embracing the thriving market segment of Lego adults is just good business or whether it's gone off the rails. What about the children? Well, we're going to figure this out. With me, we've got Melissa, who specializes in operations and customer experience. Chino, who focuses on global recruitment, talent, and corporate culture. We've got me on marketing, and someone else is here to play. I'd like to introduce Leo Battersby. Leo is a former Mattel executive and one of the brains behind Mattel Creations, a.k.a. Mattel Collectibles for Adults. They're super cool. And he knows his way around tapping into a market of grown-up toy fanatics. So I bet he's going to have a lot to say here. But first, Leo, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Hi, everybody. Really excited to be here. So, yeah, I worked at Mattel for three or four years, started Mattel Creations with Richard Dixon, the president at that time. And we took that from zero to $110 million. And when I say zero, we were the first to introduce Shopify to the business. That was new. So from the ground up, retooling the studio, building a team around the creative, building a copy core, build a narrative around the brand. So it was a very ground up enterprise in that way for what is otherwise a 75 year old company. A lot of a lot of tension there, a lot of fun things to talk about. Before that, I spent a lot of time in the agency world doing a lot of brand strategy, brand foundation. I actually was introduced to Mattel during a brand strategy project for Hot Wheels, which involved ages and stages and the way kids play from, you know, two to three, three to five, five to seven. So there's some interesting stuff to talk about there today, I think. with respect to Lego. And since then, I've started my own helmet company called Mindy Rally Club. And I'm also the VP of brand creative at a startup called Fluid Logic, which is an algorithmic performance hydration brand here in El Segundo. Ah, very cool. Well, thanks, Leo. It's great to have you with us. And we're going to need you for this and all your expertise in all those areas. Melissa, the floor is yours. And like many of our listeners, that floor has got Lego pieces all over it. So why don't you get us going? So quick rewind on Lego, the lovable and hateable toy of all of our lives. This is a family company that started in Denmark in the 1930s. We did the plastic bricks in the late 40s and then spent decades positioning itself as a kid's system of play. Creativity, problem solving, building whatever's in your head and in your mind, not just what's on the box or in that little tiny pamphlet. Even today, if you go to their brand page, the language is still very much play well, free play, fun, learning, caring, quality. And it's all about making a positive difference in children's lives and creating playful learners for life. That's the official story they're telling the world. But what's changed is the money picture. You know what? You grow up. It's not a nonprofit. it. So over the last few years, Lego is still growing, but not at the same insane pace it had been in the early 2020s. Revenue was basically flat to low single-digit growth in 2023, and profit dipped a bit as they poured more cash into these big strategic bets like digital and sustainability. Then 2024 and into 2025, they really bounced back to double-digit growth and record revenue, helped by the strong demand in the Americas and Europe. And a lot of that momentum is coming from bigger, more complex, more expensive sets and these new experiences. So it's not surprising that over the last decade, they've really leaned into adults launching Adults Welcome, rolling out these 18 plus sets in sleek black boxes, stacking on licensed IP and high price points, and tapping into the adult disposable income in fandom as a serious growth engine. not just a side hobby. On top of that, they're investing in tech like SmartPlay and SmartBricks and making big, very visible sustainability moves like swapping all that internal plastic bag for paper, which parents and kids love and which we're also spending heavily behind. So that's the tension we're poking at today. When you put it all together, adults as a growth segment, tech-heavy bricks, premium collectibles, does the chase for adult money, and these wow moments start to strain a mission that's supposed to be about kids, open-ended creativity, and tactile analog play? Or is this just Lego finally admitting the obvious? The kids who grew up with Lego never really left, and now they're footing the bill for the next generation. Let's talk. that's build well leo i mean we kind of know at this point you can't ignore an adult audience that wants in right it's if it's a nostalgia play or if it's you know i missed that and i missed the experience i had as a kid and you and i'll throw some money at you as long as you make something i like you can't say no to that right you can't i mean when i was at natel you know we were starting Intel Creations, I want to say that the adult collector segment was about 25% of the market at that time. And so this is during COVID and maybe it spiked during COVID because we were all stuck at home and we could play with toys while we're on teams with our camera off. But I think since then, it might be 25% or 30% of the market. I know that it is growing and it's not really waning even after COVID. So you can't ignore the market. And I've spent a lot of time with C-Suites doing brand foundation, brand strategy stuff. And the one, you know, as much as we needed to be a purposeful foundation, as much as we need to motivate our culture and hold ourselves accountable to doing the right things for the right reason, any brand foundation that forces you to say no to a lot of money isn't a good brand foundation. It just isn't. Now, that doesn't mean you say yes to every opportunity, a good no. I mean, we've all heard the Steve Jobs thing, you know, saying no was the best thing ever did. But you can't ignore where culture is going as a consumer brand. You can't do it. Engaging with the adult toy collector, I don't think into itself is a negative. And frankly, as a toy brand, I don't think you can ignore it at this point. I think that, you know, if you do that, you're sacrificing 25% of your market share. We did a lot of work. We called it the principles of play specifically related to their track sets around these different ages and stages. You know, when they're two years old, they're crashing and bashing. And that's kind of it. They're just smashing stuff and seeing if they can make it fly. And they're exploring, right. They're just getting, you know, when you're that, when you, when you're that young, you're basically a sponge and you're just, you're, you're, it's like you're on an acid trip and you're just taking everything in, right? Like you're not, you don't have your own identity yet. You're just this little sponge. And then you move into, OK, let's let's make this more interesting with some rules and some competition. And then, you know, you start structuring it a bit and then you move all the way up into edulation and development and identity. And maybe you're into hot rods and maybe you're not. And so there's a lot of work that went into that and into that thinking and that strategy. And it was all about managing open ended play against a product. I love what you're saying, Leo, because I feel like what you're saying is the difference between paint by numbers and a blank canvas. My son is still, I mean, he's an adult now, but avid Lego player, Lego builder. And one of the things we found so fascinating was how he would take a piece and reimagine it into something else. And so I remember the first time he built a race car, he used a tile that was used for a roof for the front like fender. Right. You know, like a triangle tile there. And so I feel like you're very right, because I feel like Lego with the sets, which are super expensive, don't get me wrong, and they're amazing, but like a Harry Potter set, a Star Wars set, you know, you're building the Millennium Falcon, you know, whatever you're doing, is so rigid in the, you know, this is how you build it. And if you don't put this little round one in here, it's not going to fit. And that's a little. Yeah. Anyone who comes over who an avid builder is going to say you did that wrong Right And so I love that there is that tension and understanding of how do you create in your toys the ability for that innovation component of it that is still something that you driving for yet you know and that also the difference of the collectibles right Like when you look at the adults, a bonsai tree, and even though bonsai trees can be whatever they want, it really isn't. You know, you're kind of building it to what you want to have sit on your display, on your shelf. So I think that's an interesting challenge that Lego has. And it's obviously Mattel has the same challenge as well. Yeah. Gina? It's interesting to me, too. So I want to go back on the culture, and I'm going to say something a little controversial because that's what I do. You know, we're talking about the demographic and I think it's really interesting. We talk about the last 75 years. We can't deny that people aren't having as many kids anymore. That's a reality, right? The birth rate is actually dropping. And so as a business who is centered around toys for children, but if you aren't having as many children, it's kind of changed the makeup of how we, you know, are exposed to Legos. So what I would say maybe 30, 40 years ago, okay, your parents have those like old Lego sets. And you were able, as you shared, Leo, to pass it down to someone else. And all of a sudden, no one's really having kids. So the Lego kind of disappears. And, you know, if someone who really loved Lego, like your son, Melissa, growing up, it's, you know, if he or if anyone's trying to have a child, you know, usually scratch that itch once you have a kid. But because people aren't having as many kids, you're losing some of what kind of the inheritance of Lego structures have been. And I think that's a really important piece to recognize because, yeah, we're not playing as much. And so you can see the shift from a brand knowing that if my main base is slowly declining, we need to look at what's next. And so I love this idea of, you know, ages and stages because, you know, my background a little bit in neuroscience and children development, there are specific pieces of like, you know, at zero to six months, a kid can do, you know, it is just exploring. And going back to like the difference between, you know, something that's really constrictive versus something that is a little more, there's not as many little kids playing with Lego. Obviously, we're centered around two plus, three plus. We know the age limits on Lego, but we're not having as many of those. you can see the natural progression of, you know, more intense sets, more sets where, you know, very structured and centered around STEM because when people are having less children, they're saying, I really need my kid. You know, it's been pushed into us. They need to get into STEM. This one's got to work. So you can see, get a job now at two years old. And if you're not working you oh we can't help you and so you can't ignore these like societal things that are happening in the background which completely changes how we play and what we think of play now and so i really love all of your points but i wanted to just share that because i think that's a fact you're you're absolutely right you know it's a less target rich environment when you're talking about a toy business and on top of that you know every toy company now has a new competitor, which is brutal. And that is a tablet. I do think there are things Lego could focus on to keep the, again, when you're a kid, what was so cool about Legos is I could make an airplane and the little wheel set, those are the engines on the airplane, not the wheels. And there was a design thinking and an imagination component to it that I think the reason we all want to have the Lego bonsai or the Lego art or whatever it is, is because we remember that feeling right and so but let if you're a if you're a an off-road guy you want your lego defender on your desk because that's your identity i'm hey i'm i'm mr adventure man um but i'm also a lego nerd and i want to i want to remember that and represent that because of what lego was then which is not what it is now to kids i don't think so there is you have an open-ended toy box right the pieces do what you want use your imagination and and you have a block you know it's a big blue block and then you have two things that represent tires and then you've got a car, you know, air off and running versus this very instructive play, which geared toward an older mentality or an adult mentality. But also let's not forget Lego is not purely an analog company. You mentioned screens, Leo. There have been, what, three Lego movies. There's a Lego adult-focused or teen or family-focused TV show called Lego Masters that feature the adults as the ones that are engaging and interacting with these really sophisticated Lego builds. you've got the expansion into all these different ips because lego's got their own their own ip but even like but they keep it fairly generic on purpose you know so it's very adaptable but even like the lego movie i had to look and see what was what was the main character's name is emmet like you know they're it's not as sticky their internal ip so they have to go out to these these licensing deals and arrangements otherwise who's going to go near it do you want to build the pirate ship that looks like it's from when lego started or do you want the latest marvel movie that's coming out um so there's not you know there is in a way there's no faulting them for continuing to diversify their product line diversify their audience reach and looking at who who wants it you know where we'll we'll make it just tell us you want it well let me know brought up a really good point around the changing culture of our children and their development and what they have access to and what they're exposed to because for me i the thing about legos is they're tactile right you the snap like the you know getting it to actually work was such a cool thing when it actually snapped in in the right way um it was very you know rectangular there but the you know when the wheels came that was like a huge thing that was huge you know you're used to having these square things and then trying to make it look curved and it wasn't curved so you you know stack your you you'd stack your legos a certain way um and so to me i feel like that is not something kids today have the patience for and the bandwidth for. Like you see kids get really two-year-olds get upset in their strollers when the cartoon ends, right? And they're swiping and there's nothing there, you know? And it's just, it's amazing to me that this is something that we are all dealing with as, you know, as a culture. So I love to understand deeper. I mean, as culture as development of children's minds and adults changes over the years, the recognition that that's not what the people want anymore is really something interesting. Yet at the same time, we have all these vintage things coming back. Like all of a sudden, everybody wants to go back to 1980s, which I'm like, no, please no. And you see that when you go in and look at games. sorry monopoly they're all going back trouble they're all going back to the old look right you know and which i love i think that's very very cool but at the same time you know we're not you know there is this want for something that's reminiscent and what about if lego were to you know lean into the kid side and maybe have these sub brands like adults and then kids. I don't know. Maybe Leo and Aaron, you could talk about that. But then they could have a starter kit and it'd be the OG and there wouldn't, and they could have a couple different things like, oh, you can build a house with this. You could build a train, an airplane, whatever you want. And we've got, you know, you've got 20 white bricks. You've got, you know, so many red bricks, two windows, you know, whatever it might be and go to it and like ask them to send them in. Right. Well, it's really interesting to get another contrary take because, you know, that nostalgia is coming back and we talk about iPad kids. And there's also a weird swing in culture, too, where there are parents who are super against that. And so you hear brands like Love Every that are a subscription based, which is so crazy, a subscription based toy company where they have developmental toys for your kids develop for development. So from zero to three or, okay, when your kid starts grabbing and exploring and, yeah, when they want to smash, here are all the different things they can do. And you're seeing a return to more of that tactile because studies have shown, again, we're talking about attention and ADHD kind of on a rise and different kind of situations. situations because yes kids brains there's a lot more synapses a lot more things firing because of what they're exposed to but there's only so much they can can can manage and handle and so you can see there's also now this weird swing of kind of like the anti-screen parent um who are looking for um you know more of these tactile things as well so it's also another interesting point too to share But Leo, you go for it. No, you beat me to it, you know. So, you know, I've seen there are a lot of people my age now with kids that are coming up into the teenage years. And I'm hearing a lot of a lot of people are coming on how, you know, maybe I shouldn't have let my kid have a phone, an iPhone. Maybe maybe social media isn't for kids under 16. You know, Aaron, you talked about the Lego movie in a point. I want to get out there. that whole movie was about what we talking about which was the the the the dad you know Will Ferrell I think was the dad And he was like gluing his sets together and wanted this perfect city and this perfect world And he was represented in the kids' narrative as the evil overlord guy that was locking everybody in with the glue cannon thing. Remember that? But you also had the Batman. You had all these, like, IP characters in there, right, leveraged in a really cool way. But the message was about open-ended play and having an open mind and being flexible and accepting. So Lego knows. They know what's going on, right? And it actually made for a really emotional – I don't know if you guys watched that movie. I loved it. It was very emotional in that end scene where the kid is like, Dad, I just want to play. And the dad had forgotten, you know? So I thought that was a really beautiful tension. And I do think at the crux of what we're trying to solve is that tension. and when I look at again I was looking through the website Lego's website and I was looking at Lego Technics. Now Lego Technics kind of came in I think as I was getting too old for it but when it started it was more like, you guys remember ErectroSets? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It came with motors and like a programmable brain. I think you could learn Arduino which is a coding language and you could make the Lego, you could make a Lego robot and commanded to do stuff. And it was very STEM, STEAM. Before that stuff was a popular topic, it was out there. It was expensive. I remember it being expensive, which is another thing I'd like us to talk about. Even as a kid, I remember my mom saying, whew, these Legos are expensive, right? Virtue as a G.I. Joe or a Transformer, which I also love. But I think when we think about, and now when we look at Lego Technics, it's all really beautiful, expensive, high detail building sets. Some of them are remote controlled and you build them and they drive. And that's really cool. There's a thought to that, but there's no way a nine-year-old is doing that. Right. And so what one thing I'm wondering is what happened to Technics? What happened to the experimentation? What happened there? You know, so with Hot Wheels, they had three brand pillars. I want to say they're experimentation, competition and creativity. I think those are the three. what's our play sets? What are we doing about those three things? And I wonder with Lego, I didn't really see that on the website. They had the creativity, they had things on there. But Hot Wheels did a great job of sort of codifying what does a play set got to do? We got to have these three things in there. And maybe another one was measurement. I forget. Maybe that was under competition. But there were a set of things that every play set had to offer on some level. And I look at Just to zoom in on techniques or Lego techniques because the line is so big. Why not bring back the builderly and why not have the kids grade Lego techniques? You know, Technics Junior, which is the bigger, simpler blocks, but they still can do a thing. It can walk. It can roll. Why not kill the community? Why not build my content around that? Yeah. And kids can figure those things out, too. You know, it says 12 and up and you've got a six or seven year old that's blasted their way through it. And it's another proof point that Lego is not purely they're not Lincoln logs. Right. They're not like old world. Like they move into these these spheres where they've got these immersive kits that do functions and have motors. They've got the smart brick now that is just coming out that we'll see what happens with that. And they're not screen shy. Like they've got the movies, like we said. They've got video games that do very well. They've got the theme parks. When you go to a theme park and you get on a ride, they sit you down in front of a screen, which is terrifying. I think they've experimented with augmented reality at the parks, too. So they're not living in the past. They're cognizant of how people consume. And even the parents that are backing away from all screens all the time, And now they've got, there's a range of options to choose from. So you can go back to the set in a box or you can get as high tech as you want. Yeah. I think the good thing they could try to do operationally is use those adult profits to subsidize kind of kid first innovation. and like, you know, figure out how, you know, there are very specific segments that they are leaning towards in each of these different brands, right? Techniques, you know, all the different types of things that they're trying to do. And so they really have to kind of come up with their own personal, you know, it feels like a little culture crisis, Chino, or, you know, they're, You've got flip personality here. Because I don't think that they're leaning away from innovation for kids, but it's also that kids are different than they used to be. And to your point, Leo, you don't have a show on Friday night at 7 o'clock that you're waiting for to watch Dukes of Hazzard, right? You have to actually, you know, and you actually are building things with your hands. you're, you know, selling pictures to your neighbors to try to get money by a bubblegum or a comic book. And that's such a different time, right? So it is interesting to kind of see how can they incorporate that with the times today and make it as relevant as possible. And I think the partnerships that, for example, Mattel has done, like on the Barbie movie and in other arenas is the same kind of thing that Lego has done in the past with Star Wars, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, creating those big sets. But Leo, to your point, those sets at those times were so expensive, like no one really could afford them, right? And that's the thing that, you know, Legos need to be accessible to everybody and not just to the very, very, very rich. You know, I think, yeah, I mean, and very rich is not an exaggeration. You know, the technique stuff when I was younger. I mean, that was way out of reach. And, you know, a buddy of mine in my 20s, he started building a family and his first their first pregnancy rather was twins. and he was like, man, I tell you what, he was a designer like me. So he's very concerned about the aesthetic of his home. And he's like, man, you have twins, just be ready for all the cool to be, to leave your house. There's stuff everywhere. And, and, and, you know, I think when you buy a Lego set as a parent, you know, it's going to go everywhere. And so when it's really expensive and your kid's really young, you know, you're going to be stepping on Legos. I mean, one of the, you know, that Lego did a funny thing and actually built Lego proof slippers for pants because they kept stepping on Legos. That was a great move they did. But I do think there was there's a tension there, but also an opportunity. You know, one of the things, one of the more sinister things you talk about as a toy company is pipeline. And how do you, you know, how do you grow your consumer base? How do you grow these kids into, you know, how do you grow with them? How do you get them into your system and grow with them? Right. Hot Wheels did a lot of that work. Fisher Price did a lot of that work. And if I'm Lego, I'm probably looking at what's happening in culture. And Chino, you probably know more about this than I do. But what makes a trend, what bursts a trend is usually what's absent. What is absent from culture? You know, and, you know, it might be bell bottoms. It might be low rise. But whatever hasn't been happening that somebody cool comes out and does again and they bring it back. if I'm Lego, I'm probably wondering what's absent. And that builderly geekery is pretty absent from kids. Now, there are brands focused on just that, right? But Lego was kind of the original brand that inspired all that. And so when you think about your pipeline, you think about growing them into your system. And again, saying that about kids is rough, but that is the reality, right? If you want to make money selling toys, that's what you're thinking about. why don't they create a Lego Technics-like thing that is very STEM, STEAM-oriented, that is affordable? Maybe it's a subscription that grows with your kid. And that's how they offset the price and get mom and dad involved. The other thing that I remember very fondly with both of my appearance was the co-play. And sometimes dad had to help you get through the tough part of the build because you just couldn't figure it out. You get frustrated. and you put one piece on backwards, three steps back, and now it's not working. Mom or dad had to come in and bail you out, and those were great memories. So that's the other thing. Is there an opportunity to get the family involved, get the unit involved, whatever that unit looks like, in a membership or in a community that makes Lego sort of like that anticipation? Another huge thing right now for kids on YouTube, it's been this way for a while. I don't know if it's, I think they've actually intentionally played it down because it was kind of bad for kids, but unboxing, getting new toys, getting new stuff. Kids are obsessed with unboxing. So imagine if Lego, I know I'm going into the solution now, I can't help myself, but, you know, is there an opportunity to go back to this builderly open-ended play thing, foster that anticipation and that, like, I'm waiting for my monthly Lego drop. I don't know what it is. It's a mystery box. I don't know. and also engaging mom and dad to co-play with the kid. Imagine every third Thursday, it's Lego Day, and something's coming in the mail, man. And guess what? You got an email with content, and here's all the other kids that build on what they did with it. What are you going to do? Upload it. That's what I remember. And so when I look at that, I get a little fraction apiece. That going to be missing if they not addressing the younger kids and creating both those moments inside their head Right Hey man this is a laptop I have a computer now I have a I have a cannon I have a helicopter They need to get they need to bring that back And also those memories with mom and dad that stick, right? I mean, I think without that, they, there may be a risk of, of the, the nostalgia adult play maybe waning because that, that, those anchors won't be there. All right. Well, you're building us toward our fix. So I've got ideas. I like everything I'm hearing. I'm going to pull this into, this is a strategy. This is going to happen, at least on our show. So what we're going to do, Leo, I love the subscription box, right? I think I was part of a book club type of thing where you got to pick every month. You got to say, do you want this one or this one? Do you want this type of thing? And every month it was like, oh, I can't. It was a book. Yeah. So think about a play set for a three-year-old. So we're going to go that route. We're going to call it for now, we'll call it Lego for life. So whatever age or stage you're at, you start getting appropriate recommendations. Maybe there's upcharges like, you know, if you want this licensed one, that's kind of tie in with the movie that's coming out. You pay a little more. If you like what you got at your level, you're good. But the subscriptions are going to start with, we'll call it an anything box, right? And that doesn't have instructions, doesn't tell you what to do. It's your starter kit. And we're going to tie in a social media challenge for those who want to play along. I think she normal, you said it earlier, like show us what you did with it. And that gets everyone involved and it's open-ended and those that want to stay on the open-ended track, their next kid is open-ended. You know what I mean? And like, okay, so we got our, we got our subscription. We got our Lego for life. We got our open-ended kit, which is affordable and accessible to everybody. And you can, you start, you know, maybe you start or end there. You don't have to stay for life. Um, and then when you get to the adult or the really sophisticated or the higher priced you know, the black box range that's got the nice packaging, maybe call it some, this isn't their final name, but call it go by Lego or something, you know, that tells you, you don't have to call it a new brand and take it all away from the full identity, but give it some type of denomination that says, look, this is a different section of the house, right? We understand you've got more, you've got, you got more resources to throw at this. We understand you are a adult or or toward the adult. And we're going to make these really intricate, you know, pixel perfect, but in real life representations of things. And it's going to be outside of our line. But if you're here for the Lego side of the house, you're going to get the STEM things. You're going to get the kits that you like. You're going to get tie-ins and products. You probably are going to get incentives to come to our theme park and come to watch the next Lego Batman we make and all those things. So it's a channel to the hearts and minds of consumers. But let's go the subscription route. Let's get that going. And when retail falters, like we know it will, and that becomes a liability to have a Lego store and all the malls, they're in there good. So did I miss anything? So what if we do that? I love it. I mean, and the go, the G and the O and go or the G and the O from the Lego logo. I see you, Aaron. I see where you're going. Let's see it. Let's see it. Well, that's where you start. Yeah, you took us here. That is a great idea. And I think that they need to lean into that. This is the wave of the future for them. I like the idea of, like I said earlier, using the other brand lines like the adult Go Lego to help subsidize that kid first innovation. And so to keep those prices down, right, for the fundamental kits and the subscription. And I think it would be a great thing for them to also think about utilizing Legos in ways that they haven't before and partnerships that they haven't before. You know, Leo, when you were speaking to the techniques, the high-end brand, I was thinking about all of the robotic clubs across the country and globally, right? everybody hears this all the time. My youngest is an aerospace engineer right now, a major. I would ask the robotics stuff that they are trying to do, right? And they're giving a very limited budget to make something do something. And I think, wow, wouldn't that be great if Lego was helped sponsor some of that in the middle school era, in the high school era to help. And then these big competitions when you get to college where it's just, you know, those kids grew up with Legos. That would be like the trophy of all trophies to say, quad Lego robotics. Oh my God. Right. You know, and have that sponsorship and it would be just a great thing. And I love, you know, integrating it with the social media side of it. So you're kind of keeping it relevant and out there. And I love like showing, showcasing how you're building it. I was at a startup company and for our profile picks in Slack, we all picked the little Lego people. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yep. Which was kind of funny, right? You know, so you kind of pick who your little Lego person was. So that was, you know, but like, I think that there's a great way to integrate all of that. So I love what you said, Erin. And I also think on the sustainability side, we didn't talk about not just the paper, but like, can you send them in? Can you send them in and they can get them cleaned and then they can sort them and then they can provide those to schools or other places and other, you know, center. I think that this is a fix that is the alignment of all of those things, right? The culture, the mission, the strategy, the operations, and the customer segment and consumer. so this is a I think Aaron you did a great job of kind of summarizing how that all works and then I'm sure Chino you might have some other closing thoughts because I know you were kind of the not you weren't the naysayer were you you weren't that that wasn't what you were you were just bringing up some some true concerns from uh you know culture perspective people fight yeah and I guess I'll you know I'll guess I'll close here so I think we can all and our listeners can agree you know play leads to creativity which leads to innovation point blank i think what lego needs to remember is that play is important and it doesn't matter what stage that could be and when we're looking at their actual brand hello lego if you're listening this is some really good insight pay us um spot on us but i think if you rethink reframe your brand of it's not just about children we're finding the kid in you we're playing with the kid inside of you that's not maybe right we can workshop the copy there but that is the essence and if we can hit it at each stage a subscription model as we've talked about but also yeah not ignore that the money the big money is with the adults looking to do this let's rebrand it and say the kid in them and we're playing with the kid in them again let's work on that copy but i think that is it kind of takes all the tension that we're having in terms of what does your brand mean anymore and if you can remember just those three pillars i think lego could be good so listen your ass call us smart um leo if we play into the cultural develop the community development and the cultural sensibilities and we do the subscription model and all those good things. Did we fix Lego? Did we fix their situation? Yes, I think so. I think that you've given them permission to take the long view and you've incentivized them internally to do the thing they probably already know they need to do. There are a lot of smart people there. I've met people from Lego. It's a great organization. And we need to cut them loose. We need to liberate them to do what they probably already know they need to do. And I think it's still a privately owned company So somebody there is thinking of the long view, the thinking of legacy. And I think this is a path to that. This is a path to creating that pipeline in that future consumer base while more aggressively asserting your brand values and your purpose and your mission. I think it's a win. I'm excited a lot. Good. Well, that's going to wrap up our episode on Lego. I think our combined fixes fit together nicely, and I hope we didn't miss any critical pieces. If we did, please let us know at wefixeditpod.com. Before we go, Leo, it's been an absolute blast having you on. And tell our listeners how they can keep up with what you're doing now. Sure. Well, thank you for having me. This was way too fun. The two businesses I'm meeting right now, one of them is called FluidLogic. We've got a whole new brand strategy, brand identity product line coming out in the spring. Go to Instagram, at FluidLogic, follow us there. We're going back into motorsports and power sports and on into athletics. It's going to get really exciting really fast. Also, Midnight Rally Club, just at Midnight Rally Club. That is my off-road helmet brand. Again, in this frame, we've got a whole bunch of products coming out. New apparel, new gloves, and some racing product that we're really excited about. So at Midnight Rally Club, at Fluid Logic. Follow those on Instagram and keep your eyes open February through April. And there's going to be some explosive change coming. Thank you guys for having me. This was killer. Very fun. Very, very fun. Thanks, Leo. Thanks. Thanks again to Leo Battersby. Thank you, Melissa, for giving us the rundown. Thank you, Chino, for your amazing perspectives. Again, you can keep up with all our episodes at wefixeditpod.com. And we're a great company while you're building those thousand-piece sets. They're not going to build themselves. And we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed It. You're welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice, or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP, and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.