Back on the Menu: Adrienne & Joe on Food TV, Tofu Tales, & Real-Life Friendship (First Episode Re-Release)

This week on The Chef's Cut, we have got an encore episode of our very first episode. This is so exciting. This is the first episode Joe and I ever did together, so listen up and enjoy. See you soon. Hello and welcome to The Chef's Cut. I am Adrian Cheetham. And I'm Joe Flam. The Chef's Cut is a podcast. We're going to give you a seat kind of behind the scenes at the table with the chefs, giving you a little peek into, you know, real kitchen experience, the culture and the behind the scenes of it all. Food podcasts can be kind of difficult because you can't see the food that people are talking about, but that's not necessarily what we're here for. We're going to go behind the scenes, giving you culinary advice, cooking techniques, but we're also going to get a little bit messy, a little bit vulnerable, and talk about real things each week on the show, mostly because, and Joe might not agree, but we're actually friends and we talk about this stuff all the time. Yeah, despite what some of your Chicago friends might say about me, you and I are actually very good friends. I mean, if you go to the wrong part of the city, you might get kneecapped. Yeah, yeah, that's all right. My knees are still holding up. But you know, I think what sets this apart is that, you know, there's a lot of podcasts out there where they interview chefs. There are a lot of really great ones too that I love that you love, but not a lot of podcasts about chefs interviewing people. And, you know, I think it's we have a unique perspective of knowing what questions to ask because we know the conversations that have been had, you know, so I think it's coming to have it with a little bit different lens than the typical one where it's just like, oh, why did you become a chef? And what's your favorite thing on the menu? And, you know, what's your signature dish? Yeah, so I'm being able to be like, what was the worst night of your life in a restaurant? Because I know you had one. And we all have one. And I know it will probably be the last thing you think about for 60 years from now. So I think it gives us kind of a fun, unique play on it to be able to ask the questions that people don't even know exist. Yeah, that's a good point. Once you've been in the trenches, you know what really goes into it. And so, you know how to kind of get those experiences from other people because we all trauma bond over. Yeah, it's one of those things you can't. No, yeah, like, you know, people like, Oh, can you turn it off? It's like, I can turn it off. If it's not my restaurant, because it's not my problem, but it's like, I can't not know. Yeah, I'll see everything. Like it won't bother me because that's not my problem. I don't have to wake up tomorrow, go into that restaurant and like sit everybody down and be like, listen, you guys dropped 47 forks on the floor while I was sitting here having dinner. It was absolute insanity. But, you know, I will notice that 47 forks got dropped out of the floor. Yeah, yeah, it's always there. It's always ticking. Tracking everything. It's always there. You can't turn it, but it's great to be able to know it's not your problem. Yeah, that's the best part of it. Exactly. So, you know, people might wonder why we're doing a podcast together. You know, some people don't know how we met. A lot of people do, but a lot of people don't know how we met. So as a pair for anybody who does not know, Joe Flam is the winner of Top Chef 15, which was the Colorado season. And in the finale, there was this amazing chef. I mean, this woman is fucking dope. And he beat her. He won. I met woman. I am that woman. You know, it was crazy. I always think about is like, I remember the, you know, one of the things they told us early on, they were like, stay off Twitter. And when our finale aired, like the next day, somebody tweeted at me and they were like, can you believe he beat her on International Women's Day? And I was like, all right, first of all, first of all, okay, like this film. Six months ago. Yeah. Like nine months ago. Secondly, it wasn't like a personal attack on Adrian. Like we both just cooked dinner. We both just cooked dinner. Like this was not an affront to her as a chef. As much as, again, some other people at the South Side made a ticket. Who shall remain nameless? But yeah, no, we were lucky enough. We were out that season together. Uh, we met there, you know, it was kind of, you know, it was a wild introduction, right? Because they did that whole thing where they didn't even introduce us to each other. They were like, Oh, just, you know, cook a dish that, you know, says hello to the other chefs for you, which is not a thing. Like, you know what I mean? I think people don't realize they call that top chef stuff. It's like not a thing we've ever done where it's like day one of culinary school. They're like, okay, instead of introductions, we're all just going to cook a dish. And that's how we'll meet each other. It's like, no, this isn't some like weird psychopath, kindergarten. I mean, it kind of is, but you know, it's like, that's how it started. So it's like, even in the beginning, like I didn't know you were from Chicago. Cause you don't really, you know, like it comes out sometimes when you're home and you and I are chopping it up, but your Chicago accent isn't, it hides a little bit in that four years. You spent going to school on the Florida, Alabama line, wherever the hell, you know, you got your undergraduate degree. Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much the Florida, Alabama line. And my dad is from Mississippi. So we grew up going to Mississippi every summer. So yeah. And that man's accent is strong. I've heard, I've, I've, I've talked to him on the phone with. Oh yeah. It's hilarious. Chicago is like Mississippi's backyard. So like a lot of black people in Chicago, we're like one generation removed from Mississippi. So yeah, we're pretty fucking country. Yeah. I don't think people realize that either. I think that's part of like that weird Chicago dialect shit. You know, yeah. Exactly. But your accent was strong. So I knew right away you were from Chicago. And I had, there was like people usually do. There was a sense about you. I was like, he's not like a suburban. He's not like an Elmhurst. He's not like, uh, what's the other one with the E North? Elgin. Elgin. You know, he's not one of those like suburb, like he's a Chicago in. He reminds me of like my cousins and my uncles. Like, I know this guy. And so we felt like a sense of camaraderie, I think early on. And we'll get to some of this later, but like. I felt so comfortable with you. And even after the show aired, we've always been cool. Like out of our season, you're probably the person like I talk with. Like we'll call. Like you said, like I'll call you to ask a quick question, thinking it'll be a two minute conversation. And hour later, we're both like, oh, shit, I'm late for a meeting. We got to go. Yeah. It's like we've talked for everything from every restaurant in Chicago to New York, to what you're about, I'm still in my boss doing that, you know, to be in all of our cousins. Yeah. But, you know, and I think this is not to get like too sappy on it. But the thing I always say when people ask me about, about you, the kind of person you are and how close we are. And, you know, because you've come so close is, you know, I always tell them the story about like after, you know, I won and, you know, how weird it is. Like, oh, it must have been a crazy party. And it's like, no, you go and you sit in an interview in a basement by yourself for two hours and they take you back to a hotel room. We're the only other person there is the person who you just had to go up against. Who it's like, you just had, you know, the greatest night of your life. And they're like, I just almost had the greatest night of my life. You know, damn, I never thought about it from your perspective like that. And so, you know, like when I got back to the hotel, like, I think you were taking a shower or something and I was just sitting outside by myself and I was like, oh, okay. Well, like I'm obviously not going to see Adrian this evening. And I respected that. Like it was also emotionally draining. People don't realize we were out there for like 16 hours on top of a mountain. In the cold. Yeah. In the cold. Wasn't that cold? We were like physically emotionally everything drained, right? We left it all out there. We left it all out the floor, you know, and I just remember sitting there by myself like, oh, this is going to be cool at some point when people know, you know, and, you know, you finished your shower, you came back out and came up to the balcony with a couple beers, handed me one, congratulated me. And you and I ended up sitting out there for, you know, an hour or two, chopping it up, just talking, talking through the dinner in like a post-game recap. Yeah. Just, you know what I mean? It was everything I, I already knew about you as a person from, you know, going through this whole thing with you, but just cemented in my mind like who you were. And, you know, it would be your level of character and everything. And so it's, you know, that's a story I tell all the time of just, you know, how close you and I are. Um, and now it's special. So that's awesome. I appreciate that. Well, I'm done saying nice things for you today. I mean, that's, that's literally the nicest things I've ever heard you say. And I've really, I don't think I've like heard that. I try not to say in front of you. That's what I love about you. You're like the cousin or brother that I could just like talk shit about all the time. But that's the thing. Like that night after the episode, I was like emotionally drained. It was like all the adrenaline left. And then you're just sitting there like, oh, I'm cold. I'm tired. I haven't really eaten in like a couple of days. Like beer is, you know, that's like dinner right there when you haven't eaten in a while. And so I'm like, I lost and I never went into the show thinking like, this is a competition I'm going to win. I was like, I'm just going to go there to cook and not embarrass myself. Um, that was questionable. But when we got to the end of it, you were in interview. I was back at the, I did my interviews quickly because I didn't win. So it's much less to talk about, honestly. Um, they just want a couple of seconds of you crying and then they're like, okay, go home. So like, I'm back at the, look at the camera. Right. Tell us how disappointed you are. I'm like, I didn't think I was disappointed until now, but shit. Like I thought it was actually fun and I thought we both did great. Right. Like, you see this puppy, we're going to give it to you. Now we're not cry more. We're going to twist this puppy until you cry. Yeah. It was like, so I get back to the, to the hotel. I'm by myself and I'm like, whoa, this crazy experience. I'm like, I need to decompress. So like I hop in the shower and then I hear you come in and I'm like, Joe, I thought they were going to take you to the place with the other people from the show so that like you could celebrate. And I'm like, he just won and he's just like sitting on the balcony by himself. Like with me being sad, I was like, no fucking way. Like that's not going to happen in no world will I allow that to happen. You just won top chef. So like if it's just the two of us and I'm a little bit of a Debbie Downer, you're just going to have to deal with it, but we're going to have a beer together and we're going to like hang out and celebrate the fact that you won. Hey, you know, I remember saying to you before it, I was like, either way, it's coming home to the South side. So damn right. We brought it back. Joe, what do you say? We just jump right into our first segment. We are calling this one review review. Joe, do you want to tell everybody what this is all about? I've been looking forward to this all morning, all morning review review is a segment we're doing every week. We're basically now they have all these online platforms, right? Everybody can review you. There's no, you know, I mean, you don't have to put up any certification to leave a Google reviewer or whatever platform, you know, Yelp, whatever open table to leave a review at a restaurant. And it's helpful. Like as a restaurant owner, sometimes it can be really helpful. Like if somebody had a bad night, somebody had, you know, off thing, like we reach out, we do things, you know, we try to, you want to make it right. Right. That's a backbone of hospitality. However, some of these reviews, especially these one stars are so wildly egregious, are so out of restaurants control that I feel like this is our little segment to be, be the voice, to be the clapback for, for our industry brothers and sisters out there who wish they could say these things back to these reviews, go over some fun one star ones we find and be able to respond to the ridiculous nature that this has become. It's a little too democratic, I think, like, you know, it's like, have you worked in hospitality in any, any way? Or are you just like, you know what, I was in a really bad mood and they didn't bring me my drink fast enough. Or, you know, it's like, what? I don't know. It makes me mad, but a lot of our friends are sending us some of the reviews that they have. Um, so today are we going to read one that somebody sent us? Are you going to read one from yours? I think, uh, I think we should, we should read. We can read one from my. Okay. Just, just, just says, well, let some people send us some more, but, uh, I had a pretty good one pulled up. I have a, a really good one that I'll pull up later at some point where it's, it's one of the guys I yelled at on the phone and he couldn't believe it. That's right. Cause you call people when they leave bad reviews. Yeah, I do. I do. I, I, yeah. I mean, that is the most South side thing I've ever heard. It's like, if you knew their address, I'm sure you would just roll up on it. Oh, I knock on the door. I'd be like, you, I'd have it printed out and I'd be like, let's talk about this. Let's post it all over their workplace. Right. I would go to their workplace and be like, listen, I did not have a great time with your insurance sales. All right. So this is just a random one from mine, one of the one stars. And it's like, listen, you get good ones and get bad ones. And now you do have three restaurants, Joe. So which restaurant is this one from? I'm not going to name names. Okay. You know, we're going to keep, we're going to keep people's anonymity as much as we can. Okay. We'll keep it classy. You know, but you know, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, somebody told me once you're not as good as your best review and you're not as bad as your worst, you know, the customer's just the only truth. You're busy or you're not. But you know, with the one stars, it's like, Hey, we're not a hundred percent, a hundred percent of the time and as much as we try to be. So if it's on us, I'll call people, I'll invite them back in. I'll say, Hey, come back in for dinner. I'd love to buy you drinks, whatever it is. You know what I mean? Try to fix it. However, some things as much as I am a control freak and trying to curate your experience to the best of my ability and so does my team are wildly out of my control. So this was our view we got a while ago. They said, this is the little context for everyone. This person sat outside on our patio, which we have in Chicago for about 47 days a year when the weather permits. So they said they couldn't give me a table in the shadow because it was a table for a party of four and a party of two came, which is smaller than four for those of you following along at home. And they gave them a table. Terrible. They said they moved the umbrella and they didn't one star. So this is. Dear God, this is the stuff where I'm like, first of all, you're sitting outside. You're sitting, you asked to be seated outside. You were sitting out there. Lucky enough to get a sunny day in Chicago. You bet. It's like you out of your mind. You're complaining about sunshine in Chicago. Sunshine in Chicago. You better come shovel a parking spot on my block. If you're going to complain about sunshine in Chicago, I better see you salting sidewalks for old people and everyone in between. If you are complaining about sunshine in Chicago, you are out of your mind. Is the beer too cold? Right. Right. You know what I mean? Like it's a food too hot. Is your champagne too sparkling? Is it too bubbly? Yeah, it's just like, these are the ones where it's just like, you're like, what do you want me to do here? You want me to bring it back to winter? You want me to sit you outside and three feet of snow? Like it's just like, these are the ones where it's like, Hey, you know what I mean? Some people have a bad time. I get it. Yeah. Some people also it's like your party of four and the party of two, which was smaller than yours fit in a spot you didn't fit in. Right. I knew to explain that to you. Yeah, thank you. It's like, do you not understand space or math or that's so ridiculous. It legitimately changes the average of a restaurant on these platforms. And if you're pulling up a platform and you're in a city or you're traveling somewhere and you're like, Oh, what about this restaurant? You're like, Oh, well, the ratings only 4.5 or 4.2. Like, but you look at the reviews, you're like, Oh, all the reviews that are five star talk about the food and the service. All the bad reviews are like this person was clearly in a bad mood. I remember working at Girl on the Goat and somebody left us a one star review because they were like, I went in, it was super busy. I couldn't get a table one star. It's like, you didn't go here. You like that's insane. That's like reviewing a movie that you're like, I went to the movie theater. It was sold out. Movie sucked. I didn't get to see it. It's like, well, you didn't see the movie. Thank you. Like, how are you reviewing this? Yeah. OK, so next up on the show, we have a segment that we're going to call Line Check and this is going to be conversation about things going on in the industry this week. It could be a pop up. It could be a restaurant opening. It could be a chef opening a new place. You name it. So, Joe, do you want to go first? What are you simmering on today that's happening in our industry? The one thing I've been, I will say this is something that, you know, obviously, I don't live in New York, obviously, in Chicago. But the one thing that I have loved, seem, is the Gregory Gordo return to New York. Gorday. Is it Gorday? Uh-huh. No way. Yeah. I always just call him Gigi. Yeah, I know. Everybody calls him Gigi. You know what I mean? I just call him Gigi. I can't pronounce anything because I'm from Chicago. But Gregory's return to New York, I think, has been like, like, it, don't get me wrong. It's got a ton of press. Like, it seems awesome with the reviews and all that. But it's like, I don't think people realized what a big deal it is for a chef to come in, even though he like lived in New York, he was a New York chef for a year, but to come in from the other coast and like hit it hard there. I feel like never. Yeah. And with his own restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like, I think that is even as much as a big deal as people can make it, I think it's still a way bigger deal. I think it's like, way bigger deal. He's one of the, like literally the sweetest people I've ever met. Like, such a good person. Whenever I see that dude's face on like Instagram, I just like want to hug him. I know, I love you. I just want to hug that dude. So my husband and I went to the opening party for Gregory's new restaurant, Maison Passerelle. Of course she did. And it was awesome. This was one of the like most fun opening parties. It's this beautiful new department store, high in French place. And Gregory's not just doing the food at Maison Passerelle. He's got a cafe and a champagne bar with snacks. And it's all kind of like Haitian, French, you know, like, yeah, beautiful flavors, sick technique. I mean, the food at an opening party for the food to be this good. We went back for dinner like three weeks later. Yeah. And I never go to somebody's restaurant within the first three months of opening, but it was so fricking good. Oh my God. Well, I think it's different with friends too, right? Because like I'll go to friends restaurants early because it's like, you know, like, hey, I'm a safe place, right? You know what I mean? Like I'm going to know what's good, what's bad, how it's going. And like, you know, like you were saying, like when it's good that early, you're like, man, you all were put in work. Yeah, you were put in work leading up to this to make it this awesome. This early because like the food looks great. And just like and not even like the stuff of the press, but just the stuff I've seen on like social media, just like I love the plates he chose. They're like really cool, interesting colors. Like, you know, Gregory's just like, I feel like he's so brilliant with that stuff. You know what I mean? He's still like stylist and fashionable and like right. Yeah. The man's he's got style and it's reflected like on the plates, like the styling of the plates, the plateware that they selected, all of that. It really comes through. And one of the coolest things. Yes, the entrees were fricking amazing. There was this lobster pasta, all this, but one of my favorite dishes. Oh my God, the French fries too. Oh, I just forgot about those. One of my favorite dishes oddly enough was an asparagus soup. Really? I know, right? Like I mean, we just ordered the waiter was pretty. You could tell he was like pushing it. I was like, OK, but it's asparagus soup. He's like, right. Right. But then when you get that like aggressive push ups up, especially when it's something where you're like, I'm not going to order that. And I'm like, I get it. It's great. Like, all right, all right, like I will order this if you leave me the fuck alone. Right. Like, no, it's really good. You should try it. Right. But that's the best though. Then when you order, that's like one of my favorite things that happens in a restaurant. When you order something you didn't want to order that they talked to you into it, you get it, you're like, God damn it, this is so stupid. I know. And I was like, OK, it could be a sleeper. Like I love finding those sleepers on the menu. Yeah, that asparagus soup was absolutely a sleeper. It was like, holy shit, this is the best asparagus soup I've ever had. So if I do go somewhere early, like you said, it's mainly just to show support for a friend of mine because I'm I'm like, I want you guys. To be crushing it. You want butts and seats. We want this place to be popping and I'm there just to show support. And people who are like, oh, the service was clunky. It's like they're just they're getting it together. It's like you're clunky. Like, yeah, I mean, get out of here. It's services clunky. It's like, right. It's like what? Like I had a great experience there. Stephen and I were having a great evening, a great dinner. And when I was texting with Gigi the next day, he was like, you know, I'm sorry if some of the food was taking a little while to come out of the kitchen. I was like, it didn't. Yeah, I was like, we weren't waiting at all. I was like, we had a great time and it's a beautiful thing. You think you think Stephen complained while you were in the bathroom? Definitely not. Definitely not. Definitely not. Definitely not. Definitely not. That'll be wild. He's an industry. That would be wild. He's an industry spouse. He knows. Yeah, that's that's absolutely top of my list. Next time I come to New York, you're taking. Oh, you got it. Oh, can we go together? You're taking me to Gigi's restaurant. Yeah, it's the only way I'm going to be able to get in. Oh, shut up. You're the winner of Top Chef. You can get in anywhere. I need that A.G. clout. You know what I mean? For in Chicago, it's a different story. But I come to New York. I got a. You're on my turf now. I got to roll with my fancy friend. I know. It's like when I'm in Chicago, I was asked you to like make me reservations because you're cooler. So for me, for lying check, I've never really watched cooking shows. Didn't watch Top Chef before we went on. None of that. So I'm kind of not as up on everything going on. But something I keep hearing about recently is that Padma is starting a new show. That's going to be on. Is it NBC or CBS? I know it's going to be like a major network cooking competition show. OK, what's the like, you know, any like formatted? Have they said anything yet? I don't know that much about it. The only things that I know is that it's not going to be as crazy in terms of the types of challenges as Top Chef, because they really want chefs to be able to show technique. They want like high level food and they're going to take it through different lenses, but I don't know what those are. But they're saying they really want chefs to be able to showcase talent and technique. The only thing I've heard about it is that you win a million dollars. Who's got a million like who is funding this? And that, you know what I mean? I was I was like a friend of mine called me about it and he was like, what do you think? He's like, it's a million dollars. And it was like, you know, like Austin Powers was like a million dollars. You know what I mean? Like it was like my only original thought, which was wildly unhelpful. But someone's called you for advice and you're just doing Austin Powers impersonations. So it's pretty much how our conversations go when I call you to ask a serious question. Yeah, it's like, well, it's like the Chicago way. It's like, listen, I'm going to help you out, but I get to make fun of you for this for as long as I want. As long as I agree to help you, then you're agreeing to let me be like, you are subject to my ridicule for as long as I want until this, until we are done with this. Like if we are building a chair for my key together or if we are building a restaurant together and you need my help and you had to call me and ask me, like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to show up. And that is so shit. Half the reason I'm going to show up is to talk shit. Oh, yeah. Like we will make fun of anything. I'd be like, oh, hey, white sweatshirt. Like, yeah, 100 percent. We will talk shit about any and everything. I love that about us. So you were saying that your friend called you and what was your advice to them? Or what's the thing that you know about the show? That was it. I did your way to Billy dollars. I was like, I would go. I was like, you know, and that's like, we're like, right? Like, you know, when I did Top Chef, I didn't have kids. I didn't have my own restaurant. So it's like, it's a lot different. I asked now the idea of going on a TV show. And TV is very different for me. I don't like, you know, my passion is restaurants. My passion is a TV. I've always said, like, if somebody came to me tomorrow and they were like, you can never do another minute of working in a restaurant in capacity. I'd be like, no, no, that doesn't work. Like, I will just like that. Like, what's my backup plan? Like making a run at Cuba, seeing if I can take it over. Like there's no good options here. If you don't let me do that thing. But if somebody came to me tomorrow and they're like, you could never do another minute of TV, I'd be like, all right, that's, you know, I did it. I was really lucky. I was fortunate. I did way more in my life than I ever thought I would. Yeah. But it's really fun when you get to do it, right? But it's like, so it's always interesting to be the new competitions come out. And it's like, what once hit, once once don't. I had a friend who was out of show years ago, a Bravo that was supposed to be this big new thing. And it was, I don't know, we could talk about where it doesn't matter. But the show was called, I don't know if you remember this one. It was called, it was only one season ever. It was around the world in 80 plates. Oh my God. Yeah. What happened to that show? It one season totally crashed out. Didn't work out at all. But my buddy was on it. And I remember when he went on it, we were all like, oh my God, you were going to be so famous. We're not going to be like this is the last time we're going to be a little public with you. Like, and he's a great chef. He's done really, really well. He has, you know, like, like four restaurants now. It's that awesome. But it's just like this weird little like blip that he was on the show that like nobody knows about. But it's like, you know, really funny. So it's always interesting to see like, which ones hit, which ones don't. Even like, you know, when they relaunched Iron Chef with, you know, Kish and was Alton Brown. Yeah, it was Alton Brown. And it was like one season. And then they never read it back from there. Which that was a bumper too, because like old Iron Chef, I think was the pinnacle. I literally, I was a sous chef on a episode of Iron Chef. Oh, my God, with with Stephanie. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, I don't know if you know this, but you can find it out there. It's Battle Bread versus Michael Simon. You see a very, very young Joe Flam out there rocking a bandana. We're on the goat uniform. So we're going to move on to our first game of the day. And I'm super excited for this. Joe, you know what we're calling this? We're calling it Fork It or Forget It. Yeah. So this one, it's all about trending topics, stuff we see going on, whether it's, you know, in publications on the internet. But all those, you know, like they're always talking trends and food, trends and food. You know what I mean? Trends in restaurants, what we see now. And you see all these big articles about it. So it gives us an opportunity to say whether we should fork it or forget the one. Yeah. Some of them are legit once you try them. Some of them, not so much. So should I go first? Why don't you let her rip? So I'm going to let you go first. Oh, I can't wait. I'm going to set you up. So for mine, the thing that I'm seeing recently, Pickle Lemonade. Where are you seeing this? I saw this in the Times Food section. But I feel like it's something that is like. Is this like a fake pop up bodega in the Hamptons or something? Like in like where they're like. Full disclosure, I did not read the blur. It's like like a like a Kool-Aid pickle, but like for like bougie people who, you know. I feel like people who are not from Chicago don't know about the Kool-Aid pickle, but that is a. Is that a Chicago thing? Oh my God, yeah. You get some. Mississippi too. But yeah, the South, they rock that. I think that's where it came from now. Like you came from Mississippi and they started. Because those like a corner store staple. Yes. You could always get like a Kool-Aid soaked pickle. And some people would put a peppermint stick in it. Yeah. No, that's disgusting. That should be illegal. That's nihilism. I'm not. I'm not a Kool-Aid pickle guy either. But that's it's here. That pickle lemonade. Pickle lemonade. This is this is what it invokes for me. Remember when the picklebacks were. Yes. Those of you don't, if you're not familiar with the pickleback, pickleback is when you do a shot of whiskey, typically in Chicago, it'd be Jameson or Irish holy water. J.M.O. And you would chase it with a shot of pickle juice. And that was like everywhere. I remember like Oshavala. They were like, oh, you just go there, like rip picklebacks. We go to picklebacks. Everybody's doing picklebacks. And it was like every bar, me and you are in New York together. We're at the Brezlin with tired, rip and pickle. And I kind of feel about it like the same way with this lemonade a little bit. It's like, you know, it's like, well, if we're drinking whiskey, why don't we just drink whiskey? Why are we also drinking pickle juice? Thank you. If I'm having lemonade. I mean, it's not a cigarette. It doesn't make this better. Not like menthol. Yeah. But like, I was like, yeah, if I'm having a lemonade, like lemonade is pretty nice. You know what I mean? Like, why do I need to make it like why man? And why is that the ad? Like there's been enough ads for lemonade. You know what I mean? Whether it's blueberry lemonade. Yeah. All fruit, like all the liquors, they all work. They all work. We don't need more additions. We can. No, we can stop this quest for a weird. Like, and also it's like, is that not acidic enough for you that you got to add vinegar to it? Thank you. It's like adding all the things that already is. It's like, oh, this is really sweet, really acidic. And now I need salt. Right. So now I'm going to add a bunch of, you know what this is missing? Pickle wine. Like, so it's like, would I try it? Yeah. I don't know. Probably because I'm weird, but like, I'm not seeking that out. I'm also not making it. Yeah. I'm definitely not. Oh, I got to, I got to try this recipe. I got to make a lemonade with some pickle juice in it. That'd be a cool, it'd be a cool way to get my kids and not like me. You're a parent. You've got enough of that. They'd be like, why are you coming up? They'll be, you know, 27 years old, the therapy. Like, why do you not trust people? It's like, my dad made this lemonade one time. That was absolute bullshit. I tasted it and I was like, what is this? I thought your dad was like a good chef. Yeah. I thought he was too. Now I trust nobody and I trust nothing. So I am a little curious about it. If I try it, I'll let you know. Recommendations on what are your thoughts between sour pickle, brine, which is fermented, dill pickle, brine, which is saltier or bread and butter pickles. I'm really only a bread and butter pickle guy. Okay. Because I have all three in my fridge. I'm not a dill pickle person. What? Yeah. That's a weird thing. I love pickled vegetables, but like a straight up like dill cucumber pickle. Just when you think you know somebody, but like a bread and I could eat a jar of bread and butter pickles. My mom, what is that? My mom is the same way. No matter where she goes, the woman has bread and butter pickles with her. I think it's like my Irish grandma was like this and I'm like this was stuff where we just love like sweet smash burger, like a smash burger with bread and butter pickles on it. That extra sweetness instead of, but that's what I like about the dill pickle is like, it's cool and refreshing and a little saltier. I love you, but you're wrong. I just need you to know it. It's like, I like, I made smash burgers the other night and I make like, you know, regular smash burger, American cheese, whatever, but I do like mayo, barbecue sauce, garlic powder, and then a bunch of bread and butter pickles, like chop them up a little of the liquid, whisk that into the combo. And that's like your smash burger sauce. Rips. It's kind of like Thousand Island. Almost. But, but better. So it's like, it's like Goose Island in Chicago. I love that. Okay. So that is my fork. It or forget it is pickle lemonade. You're against. I'm curious. So if I give it a try, I will report back. If I try it with bread and butter pickles, also, I will let you know which, which taste tests came out on top. I'm gonna make it for your nephews. So they have a reason not like they're in New York. I can't do that to them. Yeah, exactly. That's my point. I can't. I can do it to myself. I can't do it to my baby. That's my point. That's how you know it sucks. Um, all right. So I got one for you. I read New York Times article the other day of the, it was like, get Caesar salad and french fries at the bar. Caesar salad and french fries at the bar. Such a thing like Caesar salad and french fries. Okay. Now I want to give it a little context. I want to give it a little clarification. I love french fries. I love Caesar salad. I have a restaurant that serves. Both of those things. You could go sit at the bar right now and have that combo. Is it a killer combo? Absolutely. It rips. 100%. It rips. I have no issue with that. But this is the New York Times. All right. Yeah. This isn't a high school newspaper where it's like some 15 year old who's just like, holy shit, have you had a Caesar salad before and some other 15 year old being like, no, I haven't because we are in, you know, Cedar Rapids, Iowa. And you were 15. Like who doesn't know this? I think exactly. Who needs to know that this is awesome. And they're like, oh, this is the thing. Like you have to go do it. Like have a martini with the Caesar salad. It's like, yes, that rips. That's great. That's awesome. Everybody knows it, but it's like, we have all these publications, all these reviewers who will come at you, Gunza Blazin, about how, you know, the food's really good, but not revolutionary. It didn't blow my mind. You know, it's not, is it, is it distinct enough for New York, Chicago, San Francisco, whatever it may be. And then in the same breath, you're going to be like, yo, everybody should just eat Caesar salad. It's like, you're sending me mixed messages. It's like, what do you mean? What do you mean? So, okay, I think that came along. That being something maybe they seem deemed newsworthy came along. With the rise of like hashtag girl dinner. Like my husband travels for work a lot. So when he's out of town, I mean, I'll save my confessions for later, but like, I live like a bachelor. So I'm either a complete degenerate and I'm like barely feeding myself or keeping myself alive when he's not home. Or I am at a bar having dinner by myself and I will get like some kind of salad. French fries. I'll usually go glass of wine though a martini at, I don't know, martini's a little aggressive for me these days. Um, so I'll go like some kind of salad, some kind of carb. If they have like a homemade bread, I'll swap out the fries for a bread. So it's like, I have a vegetable, I have a carb and I have a glass of wine. And like that is my dinner. Right. Listen, listen, and I have no, there's no shame in that game. But I appreciate that dinner. I appreciate that dinner. There's nothing wrong with that. Is that a front line news article that you have a salad and french fries? So does everybody else. Like both of those things, neither one of those things are alike. You know what I mean? Like, like I understand I'm in a place of life where I'm doing better than I was 10 years ago, but it's like 10 years ago, I had the means to get a Caesar salad and a french fries. You know what I mean? Like it's not a wildly unattainable thing where it's like, Oh, like, yeah, if you're ever in Iceland, you have to have the fermented shark with the french fries. It's like, well, that's crazy. Tell me more about that. It's like, you want me to read a whole article about Caesar salad and french fries? Right. Right. Okay. I get that. Like what the chat GPT happened. That this story was pitched and everybody was like, dude, yes, sick. I cannot wait to read about this wild concept. So Caesar salad french fries martini for dinner. We do it, but we can forget it in that context. We can forget right now. It's about it. This is my point. We can forget the articles that need to be written about like super obvious things. That's why. Yeah. Dinner. I'm there. I've forked the dinner forked that any day of the week. Everybody wants to dinner, forget the article. You know what I mean? Come rip by the steakhouse and have a Caesar salad french fries and a martini. I got you all day every day. Like that's. I think it's awesome. I think it's a killer combo. I probably throw a smash burger in there too, but you know what I mean? I'm a I'm a little bit of a little I'm a little I'm a little bit more of a mid western built that you Adrian. I mean, you know, I've been in New York for a long time now. Yeah. So, you know, I'm probably throw that one out there for a side. Our next segment. Oh, this is where we're going to get a little deep. This is what I'm looking forward to, especially as we bring guests on the show. Where this to me is like the good of it, the grid of it of like what, you know, those little peaks of like what our industry is. And if you've ever worked at it, you know, but if you haven't, you probably may be heard, but this is what we're called walking confession. And, you know, really, you know, as you know, Adrian, like that's where you find everything out. You want to know what's going on in a restaurant? You go stand in that walk in for five minutes and people will come in and they will lay it all out of the line in there. If you've ever been in a restaurant quality walk and one of the main attributes of it is it's borderline soundproof. Yeah. You can shoot a shotgun in there and no one would hear it. So it's a really good place to go. If you want to have a conversation that you want, absolutely no one to hear. If you need to scream, if you need to cry, if you need to do whatever, the walk in is always the safe space. And in the midst of a hot ass kitchen where you're sweating and there's flames and there's fire all around you, you can go in there and cool off too. Literally, I remember going in the walk in and seeing steam coming up off of my body because it was just so hot in the kitchen. And I'm like, I need to go cry and I need to go cool off. Hey, the walk in serves both purposes. Yeah. So I had to take it back for this one because I think there's always, you know, I think a lot of times too, with like social media, chef's cookbooks always, you know, you read and it's all pressed, right? You know, you get the details they want to give you, they give you the like, oh, yeah, I was here and I killed it. I made all these great dishes and I was the best cook of all this. And it's like, but like we all started out kind of suck. And anybody who says otherwise is either a liar or a freak of nature. It's just that simple. Like at some point you sucked and you didn't know things and you were also wildly afraid to admit you didn't know things. So that's really, really where mine begins. So when I was like 19, I was a cook and it was like my first like cook job that like it was before I went to culinary school and it was just kind of like a guy I knew delivered coffee to this place. So he got me a job there, you know, true Chicago fashion. And so I worked there for a while and there was like a bunch of little different things in there and I'd worked pizzas, I'd worked sandwiches and then they had this, this walk station. There was like two walks and like people would come up and they'd like, you know, they pick out their veggies, they put it a little basket and hand you the basket and then they pick a protein and they pick the sauce and they pick the rice. And you know, it was a pretty simple process, but it was cool. And they're standing right in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to cook in front of people, which I thought was sick. Plus I was like 19. This place was at a mall. You know, it'd be like all the girls from Macy's came over to like go to the walk station. So it's like where you want it to be. Right. So one day whoever was supposed to work that walk station didn't show up. So like chef comes over and he's like, Hey, he's like, do you know how to work the walk station over there? I was like, I think I do. Which I obviously had no idea. And this was you just got a job at this place. It's not like you had worked at a place with a walk before. No, no, I'd worked at a barn grill in a Southwest suburbs that had like a deck of it. We made pizzas on a deep fryer at a flat top. And like I wasn't really allowed to be back there, but I would go back there late night, like if somebody called after the kitchen left and like make food. So I had no idea. You're being, I had like seen a walk. But you're like, yeah, I can work the walk station. Of course. Oh, 100%. 100%. Like there's no, there's no human more confident than a 19 year old out of life. And so, because like you're too dumb to not know, like how stupid you are. Yeah, you don't even know what you don't know. Right. And you just like haven't failed that enough things yet to be like afraid. And so guys like walks me through. He's like, all right, pretty simple job. Just, you know, he's get the veg basket goes. There's like a boiler. So you drop it in the boiler. So you boil the veg. He's like, turn on the walk full heat. And if you've never worked at walk station, it doesn't look like a regular burner. It's a jet burner, basically. You know, it's, and it's a lever. It's a handle that goes like this, like it just flips it. You know, you're full blast or you're off. And those things rip like 500 degrees. And it's just like, it looks super cool. So I was like, yeah, walk burners. It's like a bigger ring to accommodate the bottom of the walk itself. And you have like, you run five times the BTU's of a home. You run, you run bigger gas pipes to it. Like a regular gas pipes at an inch and a half. And a walk burner gas pipe is you have to have at least three inches. Yeah. So. He's like, super simple. Turn this thing out all the way. Walk it's hot. Put your oil in. Oil starts to smoke. Garlic, ginger, protein. Let the protein cook once the protein cooks. Veg, sauce over the rice. They order. I was like, all day, baby, all day. I'm your guy. This is 2005. I'm riding high. The white sex are about to win the World Series A-Train. All right. So it's like, I am on an absolute tear. We are listening to Don't Stop Believing every night of the week. It is peak, peak Chicago. You're like, what could go wrong? Nothing, nothing could go wrong. Bobby Janks is on fire. Like so. I'm like, you know, and I'm doing pretty good. I'm like, I got that system down. It's a pretty simple system. They were really good at that. I'm like ripping it. I'm going along. I'm making it for him. Chopping it up with people that are like, what's your favorite? I'm like, oh, this is so good. But whatever. I'm like, just killing it. Rolling along. Finally after a while, somebody comes in. This lady's like, hey, I'm going to do the tofu. I was like, hmm, OK. I was like, sure. So I did that. You immediately started judging, I can tell. Yeah, I was like, yeah, you're not from here. But so again, this is 2005. It's like she ordered tofu. I was like, oh, cool. Like you live in California? Like and so I ripped the pan. Oil, garlic, ginger and like they gave us all the proteins that like those little prepackage bags. So I had, you know, like whatever, 12 cubes of produce tofu in my little bag. So I just go and I dump it. I dump it. This thing goes off. Like, I mean, like I remember getting home that night. I had birds inside my armpit that it went up my chef's coat and just like almost takes my eyebrows. Like, you know what I mean? You ever burn your nose hairs off? We can see. Yes. You'll be smelling that for a week. And then you're just going like this. You're like. Yeah. Get the singed edges of the eyebrows off and then yeah, hope they all burn, you know, like it goes up and I'm like, whoa. Yeah. They're like this lady is also is like three feet behind me. She's like, oh my God. And I'm like, oh, no, like it's this is fine. This is totally fine. This is totally fine. Everything's fine. I just kind of like, you know, like worked it, put it out. I was like, all right, that went super unwell. Now, Oh my God. This is like the real hacky part of this as a young cook, where it's like, instead of doing what you should do, it's like, obviously, I should have just asked one of the chefs and be like, Hey, bad, like, I almost let myself on fire today. What could I do tomorrow to not light myself on fire? Because like that kind of sucked. Would be like a totally, you know, good response. But maybe 19 at a young cook, of course, like my, you know, shit had response was. I was like, all right, I just got to figure this out. I obviously cannot tell anyone about this ever because they're going to like throw me off the station because I almost started a fire. Oh my God. So then from there, what I would do when they put me back on that station is somebody came in and I ordered tofu. It's like, I hadn't figured it out yet. So my system was they'd order tofu. I would take the pan, rip that pan, throw the oil in garlic. Ginger, take the tofu out. I'd take three steps back and I would be like, launch it from across the room and hit the pan. It would still light on fire. You're such a jerk. Like it was like, I was like a Benny Hanna chef just like, like, you know what I mean? And then it would light up fire. And every time the person would be like, Oh my God. I'm like, yeah, no, it's cool. It's just like, just lights on fire. Oh my God. It'll burn out. No, that's exactly what's supposed to mean. Like I was like ripping. Yeah, like I was ripping Saganakis and Greek tout. You know what I mean? I'm like, I got your flaming cheese right here. So that's the whole time I worked at station, just how I cooked it. And I was like, you know, retrospect. I was obviously like, I did not serve a delicious bowl of tofu for six months. It must have been so disgusting. Like all that gross oil, just like carbon. Like when oil ignites like that, it changes the flavor. Everything will henceforth that it touches taste really off. Like it'll taste burnt and like terrible. It's that carbon flavor. Yeah. And it's like, it's also, it's like such a young cook thing. It's like they light a pad on fire. They're like, put it out, they go to cook it again. And like, now I see it and I'm like, what are you thinking? And then I remember that I was a dude throwing tofu from four feet away from a walk and letting out fire and just going. So it works. Kind of like the flaming volcano of onions. You ever seen that? Yes, the volcano onion. That's totally what's happening here. Yeah, yeah, I thought I was on my Hibachi ship. So Joe, knowing what you know now, what would you have done? Would you change the order? Would you go ripping pan, oil? I would still just rip the pan. You just gotta pull it off the heat. If you pull it off the heat and throw it in, then it'll cook out the water and not light out fire, which is really the way to do it. But when you have that heat still transferring into the wok, it's gonna ignite. But if you pull it off for a couple seconds. Yeah, you'd be able to throw it down, throw it in with a veg and everything would be okay. And that's a good cooking tip in general because I feel like I'm always telling people, they're like, what's the difference between restaurant cooking and home cooking? I'm like, the heat. Like we get our pans really hot. But there is a point where your pan can be too hot. But what you should just do is take your pan off the heat. Just move it to a burner that's not on. You know, just move it somewhere else. Let it cool for a couple of seconds if you feel like that oil is starting to get too smoky. Cause that's where you get that really accurate taste. So just pull it off the heat, pan off, all you gotta do. Dump your oil, start over. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Age, give me some of your dark deep secrets. Oh, we're talking about me. I thought we were just talking about you today. You're not getting off the hook. Okay. There was a service in New York. The restaurant shall remain nameless. Where I was, I was new on a station. I was on the hot apps line. New, this was my first like hot line. I had worked at a restaurant in Florida. I had worked in some other places, but this was my first like hot line real position. Not like getting called over to learn something and help out. And I was like, like, you know, you're just tense the whole time. And I was like, so I was like getting my system down and I get really OCD about getting a system for things. And because that's how consistency is the most important thing in a restaurant. You have to make the dish taste the same every time. It has to be great every single time. So I'm just like so focused on what's going into the pan that I wasn't exactly looking at the pan itself. So I pulled down a saute pan because the dishwashers would put them up above the line. So I reach up to get a saute pan and I noticed the bolts on the handle are a little loose and I see like some glinty. I'm like the metal feels we're like, but whatever, like I got to get this dish out. Chef is yelling at me. I need 45 seconds to the past and this pickup takes like a minute and 15. So I'm like, OK, I just I got to go. Right. And you already told them it's only 30 seconds out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 30 seconds. 30 seconds. So I'm like, I'm rushing the dish. I'm not really paying attention to everything going on around. You know, that's one of those moments where I was so young and so inexperienced that I didn't know that I could say, Chef, I need a minute. I didn't know. I didn't feel confident enough to like this is also, I think I think for context, people have to understand, especially if like you're a cook now, that's like, we have cooks now that come in and I'm like, hey, this is how we're going to set up for success today. Like we're going to we're going to make this work. We're going to do good. You're going to succeed. But everyone here has your back. That's like when you and I were like that. No, it was like I remember getting it online. Everybody was like, you're going to go down in flames. This is going to be the worst out of your life. Like you suck and you shouldn't be at our line and like we're going to watch. Yeah, we're going to watch you go down. We're not going to step in and help. We're going to watch you go down in flames because you need to learn. And they wouldn't even say because you need to learn. They're just like it was just like hazing. Kevin Hart, like you're going to learn today. Right. Right. Right. I sure learned that day. I learned that like you need to pull up and pay attention to everything on your station, not just the things you're responsible for, but even the things you're not responsible for because stuck in the bolt of that metal was a piece of brillo pad from the dish pit and it dislodged itself while I was sauteing this crab and it went out to the table. Luckily the diner saw it as soon as they like looked at the, but I like I missed it. The chef at the past missed it. Luckily the guests saw it like within a couple seconds of hitting the table, but I was, I got kicked off the line that night. Oh, oh, that's the worst because actually, and then fast forward a couple years later, the same thing happened at a two Michelin star restaurant in New York and the diner didn't see it. Eight the dish with a piece of brillo that was stuck in their food that nobody saw and it scratched their esophagus and they sued the restaurant for millions of dollars. So like I luckily like I got off because the guest caught it. But if that guest had a guest, bless yourself right that in that moment. Seven, 20 years ago, girl. I think you missed it. You're good. No, it could have gone so wrong. But it's crazy. So like ever since then, I was just like, I'm not just responsible for the herbs I cut. I'm not just responsible for the crab that I picked for the sauces I make. I'm responsible for everything around me that I put my hands on. And from then on, I was just like, Oh my God, now my OCD is like really flaring up because that's when you'd see everything. When you'd see those like OGs on the line, like they have their pans. You know what I mean? Like if you worked like in any of those kitchens where you had like OG career line cooks, like they'd get, they would go back to dish and they would get their pans before service. Yeah. Be like, I don't really just saw like pans and then you're like damn, they got all the good pans, like they had all the perfectly flat ones. All the ridges were nice. Like they knew what the good pans were and you don't even know they're good pans yet. You weren't even going to break your career. They wouldn't just chuck their pans into the dish bin to get cleaned. They would have like a water bucket down there and they would wash them out or like wipe them out and keep their pans on their station all night. Yeah. Because they're like, this is my stop. Why don't they just let them go through the dish pit? Oh my God. So that's, that's my walk in. That's brutal. That's brutal. Get thrown off the line too. Bad. You're lucky you didn't get sent for that. Honestly. I know, right? I mean, oh God. Oh, I now I remember a couple that are good that we'll talk about. We'll talk about next time, but I think that that's it for our first episode of Chef's Cut and we will be back with a whole new episode next week and we cannot wait to tell you who our guest is. But before we do, Joe, everybody who is fanning out over you and has followed you for years, where can they find you on social media? I'm social. You can find me on Instagram at insta flam. And in real life, you can come see me at El Carchefo, Rosemary, or Boulevard Stake House. Yes. Boulevard is the only one I haven't been to. I'll be there in June, but have you not been? I haven't. Well, your sister's been. I know my whole family's been. Your whole family's been all your friends have been. So you're kind of laid on it. We'll get you back over there. Oh yeah, you'll be there in a couple of weeks. Actually. Yeah. Yeah, sure. We'll be. All right, Adrian, if they want to find you, where can they find you on the the internets on all of the socials? It's pretty much chef Adrian Cheetham. I just keep it super consistent and super simple. My name is really long, but there's no way to shorten it. Are you on a you on tiktok? Are you a tiktoker? I'm on tiktok, but I don't know if I've posted yet. I need a I need a Adrian Steven tiktok dance. I don't know if you'll ever get that. You might get a Adrian and my sister Jackie tiktok dance. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. We do all of our music video dances from like the 90s and 2000. Let's let's go. Let's go. Also, if you guys like the show, be sure to leave a review and most importantly, follow the podcast, the chef's cut wherever you're listening so that you don't miss a new episode whenever it drops and miss out on all this fun conversation. And don't forget to tell your friends about the podcast. Fordham mouth is always the best for us, whether it's restaurants or podcasts. Let your friends know. Come check it out. Thanks for hanging out until next week. It's been the chef's cut life beyond the past.