RRP LIVE: Alex Honnold On Climbing the Taipei 101 Skyscraper

We're brought to you today by Seed. If you've enjoyed my conversations with microbiome master Dr. B, then you know that a happy gut means a happy body and a happy body means a happier life. But to get there, you need a ritual. And mine starts with this right here, Seed's DSO-1. Here's the thing about probiotics. Most of them do not survive your stomach acid. But the thing about Seed is that it has this really smart capsule-in-capsule system that actually protects 24 probiotic strains so that when they arrive in the colon, they're intact and they can actually perform their intended job. And that job is to improve your gut health, which we know from Dr. B is essential to just so many bodily functions. SEEDS DSO-1 Daily Symbiotic is a two-in-one, meaning that it's both a probiotic and a prebiotic formulated with 24 clinically and scientifically studied strains that support whole body benefits, gut health, healthy regularity, skin health, heart health, gut barrier integrity, all in just two capsules a day. I've been taking DSO-1 daily for, I don't know, several years now. And what I notice most is better digestion, steady energy, feeling lighter after meals. And 92% of members recommended DSO-1 to somebody they know, which tells you it works. So go to seed.com slash richroll and use code richroll20 for 20% off your first month of DSO1. Hey, everybody. Welcome to a very special edition of the podcast because today we have Alex Honnold in the house in his very first podcast appearance, Post Taipei 101, Free Solo, Skyscraper, Send. As many of you or some of you may know, we live streamed this event on YouTube a couple days ago in front of a live audience in our studio, which was a really fun and exciting experience. in this episode Alex answers all the questions that we all have about why he did it how he did it some behind the scenes stuff that uh you probably haven't heard yet we also hear from his wife Sonny about how she feels about all of this and we hear from the guys behind the scenes who produced the Netflix broadcast about what it was like for them as well as our man Adam Skolnick He was there in Taipei, and he shares his boots-on-the-ground perspective, POV, as somebody who was there observing it in real time. So with that, please enjoy me, Alex Honnold, and friends, and our first of what I expect will be many more in-studio before a live audience event. Welcome to Rich Roll Live. Please welcome your host, Rich Roll. Hey, everybody. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host for what is shaping up, promising to be a very special live event with Alex Honnold before a live audience that we're also live streaming on YouTube. This is our first experience doing this in our Los Angeles studio. So thank you, everybody, for showing up. Welcome, everybody. Welcome to the audience who's here right now and also to everybody on YouTube who is tuning in. I have so many questions for Alex. I know all of you do as well. This is our opportunity to ask him everything that's on our mind and see what he thinks about stuff. So without further ado, let's just welcome him to the stage, the great Alex Honnard, everybody. Alex, I want to start out with asking you about how the experience has been for you in the aftermath of this climb, because it really created this unbelievable water cooler monoculture moment, which is very difficult to do in 2026. And in reflecting on it, it made me realize that all we needed was this guy, you, to go out and climb this crazy building to remind us that what unites us is more powerful than what divides us and to inspire us with what is possible. But it really did create this unbelievable wave across the world of just fascination. And what has that been like for you to experience that? I mean, honestly, I was sort of insulated from all that. I mean, you know, I missed the live event on Netflix because I was too busy going climbing. And then the next day we flew home and then went right back to our two young daughters, basically having two crying babies that aren't sleeping very well. And, you know, I was like, oh, I don't know. I kind of missed the whole event part of it. I just had a great experience climbing and then went home and tried to go back to normal life. Going behind the scenes of it, I want to talk a little bit about, like, the plan versus the execution or the expectations and the reality. I remember we ran into each other in New York City, like, a handful of months ago. And it was before, like, this was even announced. And we were kind of chatting about it. I was like, is this happening? And you said, yes. And I said, what is your sense? What's the degree of difficulty around this event? And you were pretty cavalier about it. I got it handled. But I want to know what it was like in the days leading up to the climb with the rain and all the people around you. It's well within your skill set, but also there's all this other stuff happening around you at the same time. Yeah, it was kind of one of those classic things like you sign up for, well, I'm sure you sign up for triathlon or something like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. And then as the date starts to get closer, you're like, what if it's really hard? Like, what if it's not fine? Like, what if I can't swim that well or whatever? And so I think in this case, I was kind of like, oh, it'll be fine. It's not that hard. I sort of like superficially sampled it. It was like, okay, I can do this. That's good enough. And then I showed up there for the actual thing. And it turns out conditions have kind of changed in between the scout. like the building was much dirtier. It was coated in the soot that, uh, from the fireworks displays they do at New Year's. But so it was kind of like bicycle grease, like smeared all over the holds. So I was like, well, that doesn't help. And then it basically rained the whole week and I was like, that doesn't help. And then I was like, Oh, that's a little bit stressful, but I mean, I was still confident I could do the climbing. It's just, I kind of need some things to line up. And so the, the rigging crew, some of the crew that was involved with the filming helped clean a bunch of the route. So it was like quite a bit better. And then the weather got good and then it all sort of worked out fine. But definitely for a moment I was like, Oh, it's, you know, It's all a little intense. You're so low-key about this. The other thing is that – Here's the thing. Because Adam Skolmick was there and he was reporting back to me what was going on there, I knew that there was this grease on the building that these fireworks had – I put this sort of sooty deposit on the building and that they were doing their best to clean it up. But that's a real problem. You know, and when I saw like the black on the bottom of your souls when you were doing the climb, like that was that was terrifying to see. Yeah. Not not crazy. I mean, so most buildings are dirty like that just from like urban air pollution, from the stuff coming off cars and whatever. And so normally when you climb buildings, it is kind of gross and you always get a little bit dirty. In this case, it was like really dirty. And then particularly the like the texture of the dragons is already so slick that once you have like sort of grease on your fingers, it feels insanely slick. Uh, but you know, we dealt with it. I don't know. I know in the, um, in the dress rehearsal, it wasn't sorted, right? Like it was, there was, there was some real concern. Like, is this going to be okay? No, I mean, it still would have been okay. I mean, even if we hadn't cleaned it all, I would have managed with just basically wiping my hands every couple moves. I mean, it's kind of like, it was all doable. It's just how comfortable and how fun is it going to be? I mean, I think what made the event so great for me is that ultimately when I did the climb, it was felt comfortable. I had a good time. I was able to enjoy myself. I think that made other, hopefully put other people at ease more to, you know, people watching. I mean, how intense would it have been to watch that if I was like looked grip and I was frantically wiping my hands the whole way up, you'd be like, Oh God, it's like, uh, you know, thankfully it was able to be a lot more fun this way. And so I think, yeah, it worked out well. The experience for millions of people all over the world was, you know, sweaty palms looking away, you know, it, it, it was, it was very challenging for most people to watch. That's how challenging it was with me and really, with good control, feeling good. Imagine if I looked like I was going to fall the whole time. It would have been like, nobody would have watched. You had a great deal of awareness of the fact that you were being watched. And it was clear almost after a few minutes, like, oh, you got a smile on your face, you're waving to the crowd, you're in control, you're in your comfort zone. And from that point forward, it looked as if like you were just having the time of your life. Yeah, I was having a really good time punctuated by effort. I had to pay attention for the moves. I'd be focused on executing each of bamboo boxes and everything. But the thing is, in some ways, the building is more like stop and go than rock climbing. You do some hard moves, you get into a position, and then the positions where you can stand, you're pretty stable because the footholds are big and you're kind of clamped onto the building. So basically, you're in these very stable positions, and then you do kind of hard moves in between them. And so I had to pay attention for the hard moves. And then once you're back into a restful position, you can like wave at people and play with the folks in the windows and basically like feel good. And so, yeah, I mean, I kind of took advantage of that and enjoyed the parts that I could and then paid attention for the hard moves. Was there any, at any point, was the people inside the windows distracting or somebody trying, you know, like that threw you off in any way? No, not really. I mean, so part of the whole experience for me was that when I was doing the prep work, it was all slightly off-putting to have so many people watching me. When I was hanging on a rope, it was just kind of annoying to have so many people with cameras at the windows watching, and I felt very self-conscious, and I felt weird about doing the prep, and it just felt, and I was like, oh, this isn't my normal rock climbing experience. But then finally, before the actual climb itself, like before the event, I sort of put that behind me a little bit, and I was like, you know what? everybody's here supporting and wants to see a show and you know, everybody's psyched. It's like, I just need to embrace that and be psyched and sort of interestingly, one of the things that makes the building hard is, is the pacing. Like if you try to go fast, you get really tired. If you go really slowly that you don't get that tired and it feels a lot easier. And so it's kind of like, well, if I take my time, go slowly, have a good time, like play with people a little bit, then it also makes it easier in a way because it just kind of naturally paces you. And so it's kind of like, well, it's a, double benefit of I might as well just enjoy the experience, go slowly, and that makes it easier, which makes it a more enjoyable experience. And so I kind of had this perspective shift where I was like, instead of wishing that there weren't so many people watching me, just be like, this is part of it. I'm here for the fun. Yeah. You did it pretty fast, though. Hour and a half. I think that was faster than most people, including your team, expected you to do it. No, no. Most of the team put money down on a bet on that timing. And 90 minutes was basically right in the middle of everybody's expectations. Talk to me about the flex when you were almost at the top and you did the arms-free thing. I mean, that was like, you teed that up for the audience, right? I mean, it's just playing around. It's like playing on the jungle gym and dangling from the bars. You're like, you can, it's fun, why not? Yeah. I mean, it is a lot like hanging from the jungle gym. You're just like, this is so cool. You're like, Mom, look at this. I don't know if you're aware of this, but there's a lot of videos on the Internet right now of dudes trying to do that pull up technique where you grab the sides and, you know, struggling and revealing just how difficult that is. Like, are you the most fit and jacked that you've ever been in your life? I am actually more fit than the normal for me. I feel strong right now. I've been at home training for months and I'm all fired up. I mean, which is honestly kind of the appeal of projects like this. I mean, part of the fun of having a goal like this is to stay at home and train hard for several months and feel really good. What is, like, take me through a day in the life of the rigorous stages of the training. Like, what are you doing exactly? It's not that rigorous. It's slightly embarrassing. I mean, mostly take care of kids and things and dealing. But, no, I've been kind of climbing two on, one off at home. So two days of climbing, one day rest. I've been alternating going to the sport climbing cave. So climbing with a rope, this overhanging wall. But this particular wall is a very physical style. It's very muscly. And so I felt like that would be good for the building. Because really the challenge of the building is kind of like full body fitness, like core and just like big muscles. And so I've been climbing that cave two days a week and then training in my home gym two days a week. So that's like bouldering hard and then doing my workout stuff like pull-ups and muscle, whatever, all this stuff. Obviously, you've done much more technically difficult climbs. but the repetitive motion of like kind of doing the same moves over and over and over again, does that create like a unique, different kind of like fatigue to have to do those same moves and use those same muscles? Yeah, a little bit. Actually, so the whole building, I did the whole building leading with my left foot. So, I don't know, if anyone noticed in the footage, each floor is like two small moves and then one big move. So on the small moves, you smear one foot and then you step up onto the other foot. So I'd smear my left foot and then step on my right foot. and then for the big move you smear your left foot smear your right foot and then step up high onto the left foot and so anyway i was like leading with my left foot for the whole building and for soloing it just kind of helps to do some kind of steady routine because uh then you just know that you're doing the same thing each time there's no room for for like doubt to creep in where you're like oh am i set up the wrong way or like does this feel different or is it slippy or whatever so i was just like doing it the same way the whole building anyway so i finished the building you know great success all good and then we came down we did a bunch of press stuff in one of the conference rooms and I gave a couple of interviews. And after each interview, I was like, I think my lower back is starting to hurt. I was like, I think, I think I might tweak my back. Like basically doing the same like left footed high step move, you know, a hundred and why not 300 times or whatever. I was kind of like, Oh, I think I think tweak something. But yeah, basically it is definitely more of a load than, than rock climbing. Rock climbing is so distributed, you know, like every move is different. So you're constantly using different parts of your body. The building is like, you're just hammering the same things over and over. at one point like 80% up you're like yeah I'm kind of tired on the broadcast everyone's like oh he's tired no but that's fine I mean it's like it's like if you're running a race or something you're like part way through you're like oh I'm tired but you expect to be that tired it's all fine I mean it's part of the plan but but no I was pretty pumped I mean you kind of those bamboo boxes like they they wear you out there yeah it's tiring uh anyone else here were you was anyone else year worried about him running out of chalk? I kept thinking, what happens if he runs out? It looks like it's getting low. Could you go to a refill? I'm sure if I had to, I could ask somebody. Nobody really had a chalk bag. No of the rigors of chalk with them or anything. But no, my chalk bag was so full. It was fine. The other thing I heard about the building is that the metal, some of the ledges were really bendy. Is that true? they all flex but actually so i found that so a lot of the things that i was grabbing and stepping on you know moved um but actually in some ways that's less scary and the thing with rock climbing is that you grab edges and they feel totally solid right until they snap and if they snap they just fall off and then you know if you're freesowing you may or may not fall to your death so you're like oh that's terrible and so climbing is like a little bit scary with the things snapping with the building you're kind of like well none of these things are going to snap it's metal it all sort like deforms you know and you can see how it's bolted on or screwed on in places and you can see the the caulking type stuff that's like holding in basically you could feel like give a little bit but you just know that it's going to bend before it breaks and so i actually found that in some ways less uh where like it was it was fine compared to rock climbing because rock climbing like you just don't know if something's going to break and that's kind of the whole danger of free soling is you're like what if a hold breaks but at least with the building you're like well i can feel how much give there is in all the materials the dragons though looked they didn't look like they were built to bear load, to handle weight. They look kind of flimsy and definitely slippery. Dude, they're like these giant metal things. They're insane. That's how it read to me. No, no. Well, actually, though, to be fair, the very first Dragon I did, I mean, I practiced them a little bit. I played on them, and they're like these super robust metal beams, basically. They feel indestructible. But then my very first Dragon, and this is a classic experience when you're soloing. As soon as you don't have a rope on, it suddenly all feels a little bit different, where you're like, oh, I didn't really think about it in this way before. But so I went up onto the dragon, and the first moves onto the dragon, you pull basically straight out on these big pinches. And I was suddenly like, I wonder what's holding this big beam on. When you start just loading it, pulling straight out, you're like, I wonder how this is attached, actually. You're like, oh, geez. It feels really robust, but you're like, how is it connected to the panel behind it? And then I was like, well, don't think about it too much. It's held all the other times, and it feels very secure, so let's just hope it is. for a lay person it looked like you just flawlessly executed this but in your mind when you replay it are there mistakes that you made or or things that you think maybe i could have done that better or differently like what what do we like what did we not see when you do your own kind of like reflection on on how you executed it i think i think it was mostly pretty good i mean i think like the first dragon i was nervous for sure it's kind of like gods and it's interesting i mean the dragons pose this whole interesting thing because they actually are the, for the most part, the easiest way to climb that section. Uh, when you're climbing the corners, it is easiest to get over the top via the dragon. You can off with behind it. Like you can wedge your body in behind the dragon, but it's actually harder than it looks like it would be. Uh, because the back of the dragon is this like tapered metal thing. It's all like weird and smooth. And so you can get in there and wedge your body and squirm, but it's, it's pretty hard and it's very undignified. So for television, I was just kind of like, nah, you know, it's like, if you're going to have to climb this thing and it's pretty hard either way you may as well do it the way that looks insanely cool and it's super fun and like feels like a big kid jungle gym and so anyway but then every time you get into the position on the dragon you are like oh it's kind of scary you know you're like stepping out over the abyss and the whole city's down there and you're like this is kind of extreme it's like pretty slippery also because the material on it the it's like polished chrome or something the building the the dragons felt so slick compared to the rest of the building yeah was there grease deposits on the dragons also they were super buffed i'm not sure what the deal is but i think they're so slick that they just don't accumulate like debris on them the way that the rest of the building did but so the buildings were super smooth or sorry the dragons are super smooth but then whatever you have on your hands from climbing on the building uh you'll feel slick when you grab them i mean when you were wiping the black the the the grease off your shoes with your hand. I'm like, well, now it's on his hands. Well, I was, I was like licking my palm and then grinding with your palm. That's, that's fine. That's normal. Do that all the time. The, the, the real variable that got introduced, uh, in this for you, it seems to be from my perspective, just all, you know, the circus aspect of it, like, and, and not only all the people, but that comes with expectations. You know, this is a live broadcast. There's all these individuals involved. There's, there's a expectation that like, this is going to happen. It has to happen at this time. And obviously everyone is concerned about your safety, but you know, there's a whole other kind of machine at play here. And so how are you like managing, like compartmentalizing that or dealing with that part of it? Cause it seems like maybe that was, if there was a stressor on you, like that was it. That was definitely part of the stressor. So from my hotel room, I could look down onto the video village that like was dealing with the whole live events. It's like a hundred people in tents. It's like a whole crazy thing. And so, you know, from your room, you'd look out and be like, there are all these people working on this project. Like sure. Hope I can do the thing. You're kind of like, geez. Um, so yeah, there's definitely a little bit of stress around that. And, and also just doing a live event felt different for me than, you know, I've done a ton of climbing documentaries and things like that over the years, but those are pretty chill. You just do them on your terms that, you know, when the timing feels right with your friends, the live event also just had this whole technical aspect to it as well, where there's like all this other equipment, all that, like they ran fiber up and down the whole building. They have to transmit everything from the cameras that all has to go live. And so basically they were the, the date and the timing all kind of mattered more because a bunch of the crew that was working on the live component of it, like had to go to the Grammys the next week. And you're kind of like, they need all the gear to go to the Grammys. And I'm kind of like, normally when I'm trying to time one of my climbs, I'm not thinking about when the Grammys are, you know, I'm kind of like, Who freaking cares about it? So there was this whole other component to it that I was like, oh, this is kind of stressful. But in a way, you just have to put all that aside and just focus. And to be fair, production did a really good job of insulating me from all the stress of it. And actually, the production company freaking got me a ping pong table for my hotel room, and I just played ping pong at the time. I was like, this is amazing. You had the ping pong table in your hotel room. Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. It was the first time I've ever felt like talent or something. And I was like, do I have a writer? I don't even know what that is, but now I have a ping pong table. They did it as a fun gift because the showrunner also is very good at table tennis. And he wanted to play. I don't know. But they put me in this hotel room that had a corner suite thing or something. I don't know. But it had an extra space. So we had a ping pong table. It was super fun. In thinking about managing the responsibility of dealing with the expectations part, um so the so days leading up to this it's raining it's raining it's raining it's raining you're out there like reconning it's wet there's grease on the building is it getting cleaned off we don't know uh the clock is ticking the grammys are on the horizon so like you know had you woken up that morning and it wasn't a bright warm sunny day and maybe you know it was more in the like could should we do it today should we not like like that was the big worry right like and and would you like, where's that line where you're like, okay, let's do it. Because if I don't like all these people are going to leave and like this whole thing's going to fall apart and it's not going to happen. Yeah. Well, that's the thing that I worried about is that it wouldn't be a clear decision one way or another where you're kind of like, well, it rained 45 minutes ago. It's probably mostly dry. It's still kind of socked in. It might rain again in an hour. How quickly can I finish it? You know, I was worried about kind of like a muddled decision like that where you're kind of like, ah, I'm balancing a bunch of different factors. Thankfully though, it just turned out that was a non-issue. I mean, the day worked out great and it was perfect, but we had tons of different contingency plans for timing. And, uh, you know, I mean, yeah, but that would have been the worst case scenario where you're kind of like, well, it's sort of gray, it's sort of rainy, but it might go. And, and if we don't go now, then we like lose the whole broadcast, the live broadcast entirely or something. I don't even know, but, um, thankfully it didn't, it didn't play out that way, but I suppose that's kind of the stress of a live event. And in a lot of ways, that was the challenge of this whole project is being able to just handle the stress or like handle, to compartmentalize all that. Just be like you know what I know how to climb I going to focus on the climbing let everything else just kind of play out What is your strategy for that Do you have like a routine like the morning of like what are you doing to get into the frame of mind to do this thing Playing some table tennis. Yeah. No, no, no, just kidding. No, the morning of, actually, I've already kind of forgotten. I think I got up and chill morning. I think maybe did some stretching and stuff, rolled a little bit. I had like a foam roll. I had a little edge I could pull on to like warm fingers up a bit. I don't think I did a hotel gym session that day and then basically just went down, had breakfast and went to the building. But I think I did some warm up stuff. Maybe you didn't go to that. You didn't do a gym workout before you climbed the building. Well, I mean, we've been using the hotel gym because we're all super jet lagged. And so it's like you just get up super early and use the hotel gym. And in some ways, doing a bit of movement ahead of time did actually feel better. You know, just because I mean, like the first move off the ground is not that easy. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not the hardest part of the climb, but getting off the ground is not trivial. And there are all these freaking people watching you and it's like slightly embarrassing. So I wanted to feel slightly warmed up when I got there just so that I'd feel confident getting off the ground. What was the hardest part? Just the bamboo boxes doing eight overhanging segments. They're all sort of the same and they just they're just tiring. Did as you as you got higher and the wind started to like get get kicked up and all that sort of thing. did you feel the building swaying at all? Was that an aspect of it? It wasn't doing that at all. Well, I was swaying in the wind. I mean, the wind was pretty intense, and the wind was ripping around the southeast corner, which is the exact corner that I was climbing. And so, I mean, this is just kind of a freak thing of the way the weather was and where the storm system is coming from and whatever. But so it was very strong wind, and I don't know if you could see in the broadcast, but up higher, there were a few places where I was climbing on the left of red, and then I traversed across the windows and then get to the dragon. and then when I'd reach around to the dragon all of a sudden I'd sort of feel the full brunt of the wind coming from around the dragon it was like it was pretty gusty I was like oh because I was slightly sheltered if I was on the left right I was less sheltered if I was on the middle right and then when I was on the dragon depending which side and everything and then as I got higher on the tower like one you're higher so it's stronger wind and then two there was less building kind of sheltering me so I was just yeah I mean the wind was like pretty intense at the top yeah I feel like had it been a little bit more it would have been almost you know I was like oh there's like pretty strong wind like I'm noticing. You stood on the top for way longer than anybody was comfortable with. Yeah, it's funny. I wonder though, so I've heard that from tons of people being like, that made me so uncomfortable. And I kind of wonder if that's because that's the one part of the whole climb that people can kind of identify with, but they can like imagine standing on a small thing. But like obviously standing on a ledge is a lot easier than freaking climbing the side of the building. But I think when people see the climbing, they're like, well, that's crazy. Nobody does that. But then when they imagine standing on a little thing, they're like, that seems scary. And I'm like, well, no, compared to climbing the thing, it's pretty chill to stand on top. All right. Final thing before we're going to bring another guest up here in a second. I know that Tool was on your playlist. Your music went out at some point, but what else is on your playlist? What are you listening to? Oh, it was all just kind of rock from early 2000s, basically, things like Tool, a handful of other bands that I love. But yeah, it was funny. I could barely hear stuff through the earpiece and stuff was cutting in and out and it was super windy and I could kind of hear, but it was still nice to have a few little tunes going every once and a while. You're like, oh, this is fun. It kind of contributed to the jovial vibe. You know, this is a pleasure. Final thing. I thought I said that was the final thing. One more thing. Is there anything else that you want to say about the experience that you think people are misunderstanding or don't quite get about what you just did? I don't think so. I mean, I think, I mean, I haven't actually finished the whole broadcast myself, so I haven't seen the show, but it seems like people that watch the show did get a good impression of how much fun I was having and like that it was, it was kind of joyous. And something that I said, um, I had this conversation, I think with my wife a few times before the actual event, but when it was sort of announced that I was going to do a climb like this, there was tons of criticism online of like, oh, this is something, this is whatever. And I was kind of like, you know what? Wait and see, because all these people are just going to watch the thing and they're going to see me having a great time on this beautiful building and they're going to get it. They're going to be like, oh, no wonder he says yes to do something like that. It's so freaking fun. That looks so cool. I would do that if I could, because it's fun. That's neat. And so hopefully people that watch the project, I don't know, people, did you guys get that impression? I don't know. I don't know how many people are like, I want to do that. But hopefully it at least gave some of the childlike joy of getting to climb something really cool that you normally wouldn't be allowed to? You were having so much fun that it was uncomfortable. You know, it's like, how could he be having so much fun doing this crazy thing that's making me so uncomfortable? He's having more fun than we are watching you do it. It gives you a reason to examine your own fears. You're like, why does this make me so uncomfortable? This episode is brought to you by a brand new brand partner I'm just super excited about called Mill. How to describe it. Well, you know that moment when you open the trash and you get hit by that god awful smell? Yes, not great. At our house, we have a lot of people living with us. Plus the fact that our kitchen and living room are kind of basically the same room. So when food waste starts to turn, there's pretty much no hiding from it. And that's what made Mill such a game changer for us. Mill is this quiet, fully automated food recycler that sits right in the kitchen. So instead of throwing scraps into the trash, peels, pits, leftovers, we now toss them in our mill. And while we sleep, it transforms everything into dry, odorless, shelf-stable, nutrient-rich grounds that we then can repurpose in our garden and mix with the soil to create a slow-release fertilizer. No mess, no stress, no smells. One of the biggest surprises is how little we actually think about it. Mill can process up to 10 pounds overnight, and it can work for weeks before you even have to think about emptying it. It's also shifted how I think about food waste. Fridge clean outs don't feel gross or stressful anymore. And I love how easy it is to do something good for the planet, reducing our contribution to landfills. It also doesn't hurt that Mill looks really great in the kitchen. So try Mill risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at mill.com slash richroll and use code richroll at checkout. That's $75 off at mill.com slash richroll with the code richroll. After hosting more than 900 episodes of this podcast, I have noticed a pattern. And that pattern is that the highest performers don't buy into the latest trendy hacks. Instead, they obsess on what actually works, which is always the unassuming basics. And there is nothing more basic than hydration. But here's the kicker. Your body can't hold on to water without the right minerals. Without them, water is just like this temporary visitor. But Element has cracked the code on this, which is why I've been using it religiously for years. Zero sugar, no artificial junk, just sodium, potassium and magnesium in the ratios that actually work. And look, I'm not exactly crushing ultras right now, healing from this surgery, but in some ways I need it even more. In order to properly recover, I need to treat my body even better than ever so it can heal properly and expeditiously, while also maintaining my focus and my energy levels to rock out all of these podcasts, write a book, be a husband and a dad. And I got to say, Element keeps my brain firing in a way that water alone can't. Their new sample pack features their most popular flavors. Citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt, that's my favorite, and orange salt. Eight stick packs total, perfect for finding your favorite or sharing with a friend. Get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinklmnt.com slash richroll. Find your favorite Element flavor or share it with a friend. I have been doing a lot of traveling lately, And it occurred to me that while we think travel is about the city we're visiting, we actually don't realize how much of the experience is colored by the choice we make about where we're staying. For example, I was recently in Palm Beach, Florida to speak at this event called Eudaimonia. And they put me up in this perfectly fine hotel that served as the event HQ. But then I had lunch with my guy, Michael Chernow, who told me he booked a stay with Airbnb right down the road that had a sauna and a cold plunge and a kitchen. And I was like, what am I doing? I could have done that. And I could have filled it with all of my friends and had a blast. Instead, I did what I think most of us do when we travel, especially when we travel for work, which is shuttle between airport and hotel and conference venue or meeting place, just kind of passing through a place we traveled very far to visit without ever really connecting authentically with it. And not for nothing, when you're away, your home is just sitting there empty when you could host it on Airbnb to give someone else that authentic experience instead of just another hotel room. And get this, the extra income you earn can help fund your next great adventure. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. um i want to bring up here uh adam skolnick uh who some of you may know is my occasional co-host here on on the podcast uh adam is a journalist and writer uh and he uh he wrote the new york times piece uh on alex in advance of of the climb and then ended up going to taipei and was there in person. So I wanted to bring him up because I wanted to get the perspective, the sort of man on the street perspective of what it was like to be there watching it, you know, boots on the ground, you know, in real time. And for what it's worth, I remember waving to you through the observation window. We're going to get to that. Okay, okay. We're going to get to that. So I was like, Adam was there because I waved at him through the window as I finished the climb. I was like, so cool. I think 100 million people saw that wave. There you go. There you go. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, when you have the opportunity to, you know, get into this production and see it from the inside, I just had to go. So it was one of those things where after meeting you in Vegas and interviewing you, I just knew I had to be there to watch it. Because I just had a sense that it was going to be this thing that you just can't miss. And to see that it got so big and went so wild, it just makes me realize that I was right. And so the event itself was – it was rainy for the days ahead. And so I remember meeting with you in your room and losing in ping pong a few times. and you were telling me about the soot and it seemed like you normally wouldn't sit and watch a building in the rain for days ahead of time. And so there was a little bit of anxiety. And so then on the day it was supposed to happen, it was still wet. And so their crowd wasn't as huge as I'd expected. And then because it was delayed a day, because they didn't announce and people were like, wait, is it going to happen? And then they announced late. I think that was really brilliant because it built anticipation, not just abroad, but in Taipei. And so I was hearing it in the cabs, on the radio. Everyone's like, what's going to happen tomorrow? What's going to happen tomorrow? Hopefully, hopefully. And then it was like a movie. I mean, it was exactly what you said. It was so perfect. It was crazy. Hundreds, thousands of people on the street, in the park, across the street, in the building. It was literally a movie. And then to watch you do it from the stage area, it was just frightening. I didn't even sleep a couple days before. I was having trouble sleeping for you because I was like, oh, man. And then to watch you do it, as soon as you got as tall as the flagpoles, my stomach was flip-flopping. The gasps, everyone was on a string. It was gasps, moans, cringing. It was all over. And I think it wasn't just on the street. It was in people's living rooms. Maybe you were having the same experience. It was impossible to watch, but you couldn't look away. yeah i was having a great time i mean my phone's blowing up like i'm just texting and sending voice memos back and forth from friends and like what you know how are you feeling what's going you know it's like yeah i'm sure this was going on with a lot of people like we were all like you know processing our anxiety yeah yeah people are literally you're making people's palms sweat and they're just sitting on their couch i mean that's what was going on it was it was pretty wild and then after like the first 50 floors though like i don't know what it was but when you like stood on that on the first I think was the first dragon and you're sitting on like the first one or maybe the second one you're standing there and you look down you get real close to the edge and you look down and everyone's like oh but at that point something happened like my brain got used to seeing you on the side of a building window ledges and like my anxiety went away and then because you had told me to go to that observation deck I just boned out and what left left the production area and just like got in line and did the whole thing with all the with all the locals and got up there and so that's where that's where i saw you basically you ended up on the 89th floor at the right moment when alex is passing because alex was like this is what you need to do and you were like how do i do that and he said just go buy a ticket yeah it was so weird you didn't have like a fancy press pass or some like vip permission to get up there no we we had this discussion. Basically, I got out there. I went out there on spec because I wrote the Times piece, but then no one was asking me to be there. So I went out there on my own. And when I was there, it was just like, I wasn't used to how productions work. So I didn't have access that I thought I might have. And so I was just kind of trying to figure out what to do. And at breakfast one morning, you said, just go up to the observation deck. And I'm like, they won't let me. And you're like, you can just buy a ticket. Yeah. It's like tours do that. I mean, I'd done that. You just go to the observation deck, the view is epic. And it's even cooler when there's somebody freaking climbing out the outside corner. Right. And you're like, whoa. What a weird damn observation deck. It was like the dress rehearsal day. And so I did that. And then when I was there, I was like, I'm up there. And I'm like, oh, shit. I got to buy tickets for the next three days because of the forecast. So while I was up there, I thought, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So because I had that ticket, it was like a combo of the ticket and the press pass got me past this, like, huge demoralizing line. And I'm like, no, I got to go. I got to go. And then finally, like, I just, I got up to the right corner and I just wanted to be out of the shot. And so, uh, the cameraman said, just go to the corner. And so I'm in the corner and that's exactly where you're doing that traverse that you just described going from the left around to the right. And it just hit you with the wind. It just was like, yeah, because he set it up. Yeah. So I don't know how many of you guys know, but Adam took out his phone and made a little short video as Alex was passing by. And you sent it to your wife, April, and she did a little minor edit and threw it up. And you threw it up on Instagram. That video now has 38 million views or something like that. It is insane. So Adam is like quietly, you know, has this wild, you know, you're a beneficiary of this on some level, I guess. But like this video, yeah, like you need to thank God. This video went nuts and got picked. It's been repurposed on everybody's account as well, including when you did Kimmel last night. They used your video? That was Adam's video where they superimposed Guillermo on it. Oh, yeah, okay. I didn't even see that. I got to see it. That's fine. Yeah. So you have Adam to thank for that. No, no, no. I have you to thank him. He's like, go to the observation deck. So I don't know. It's like one of those weird things. I think because it got so big because we, it was, it was funny because you said hello and you gave the thumbs up. And then I, in real time, I sent it to April and April happened to be able to be responsive. She was watching it. Zuma had a little, had his little chalk bag on and he was watching it. And, um, and so, uh, I sent it to her and she, uh, cut it real quick and put it up. So he was still climbing. You were still climbing when that video went up. And so that's why I think we just caught a wave. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam, what can you share about the time that you spent with Alex when you went to visit him in Las Vegas? This New York Times piece came out, but a lot got edited out. There were plenty of other insights that you wanted to share. What do you think would be interesting for people to know that they might not know about Alex and his life? Tell them about your harrowing survival experience getting down from the crag. I took him out for a normal day at the cliff. We're talking about everything. Okay. so two things one is when i when i met you in taipei you're like you threatened to do a rope swing off the top of the building with me because in the at the crag in vegas that was what he said we're going to put you on a rope swing and of course i was hoping that wouldn't happen so the whole time i'm interviewing you between your your attempts to to to climb this route um it gets later and later and the sun's going down i'm like okay i don't have to do the rope swing because i hate heights. I'm like the opposite. I don't even like standing on a ledge looking. I don't even want to stand on that thing right there. That's me. And so I had to climb up. You had to hoist me up to this rope swing. And then I did the rope swing. And on the way down, my ankle gave out. And so I was limping. And at one point, he's like, I think I might have to carry you. I could probably carry you. And all I can think of, I can't injure you. You're supposed to be in Taipei in a month. I can't do that. I would have carried you, though. He did great. It's one of the best rope swingers in the world. It's so cool. It's an insane rope swing. But one thing I thought, because I talked to Sonny about this, is what was interesting, Josh McCoy was staying with you. And he was living in his van. And then I talked to Tommy Caldwell, and he said that sometimes there are six vans there. And Sonny said that it was something like when you were living out of your van, you always, you know, you couldn't, you couldn't give, you're always in the receiving position. And when you moved to Vegas, you wanted to set up a place for your friends who were, who were climbers, who were dirtbagging to hang out. And I just thought the biggest thing that I think was missing from the times piece was that, that you're thinking that way and that you're a leader for this community in Vegas and, and, and, and all of that. So I wonder how that kind of, I don't know. Yeah, it's true that we often have many people living in their cars at our house. Um, but that's fair because I lived down in my van for a very long time. And I would always park in front of friends' houses and use their washing machines, use their showers, use whatever. And so now it's nice that we own a home that I can sort of share a little bit. And a lot of my friends that I've been climbing with my whole life are basically older homeless people now. They're like mid-40s, like live in a car. They've lived in a car their whole life. No real prospects. They're kind of like, yeah, you're welcome to live in my driveway as long as you need. And some of them I suspect will be living with me into our old age. But that's fine. I mean, that's the climbing lifestyle. What has the reception by the climbing community of this event been like for you? How do your peers and your friends kind of think about this, like the real dirtbag community? Yeah, honestly, I'm not sure. So my close friends who I hang out with all the time were like, oh, that's cool. And we got a few videos while we were in Taipei from our friends hosting watch parties, You know, like, basically groups of our friends in Lake Tahoe or Las Vegas sort of sending a video of, like, everybody hanging out watching the broadcast. And so that was cool. It was nice to know that, you know, my friends supported and were having a good time. But in general, I don't really know how the community, but it seems good. I don't know. Watching this go down made me realize that, like, I have no idea. Like, every time I talk to you, I think that, like, I kind of have a grip on what it is that you do. And then I see you do these things, and I was like, I don't really understand this at all. And one of the things that was really shocking to me was realizing that when you got to the top of that building, that that's basically only half as high as El Cap. Okay. Yeah, totally. And like half as hard. And like, you know, just so much easier in comparison. And it just gave me such a deeper level of like awe and respect for that climb in comparison to this. And this is the one that's really captured, you know, the world. um and yet like lcap is like so much more of a stunning achievement yeah yeah that's fair i mean lcap was but lcap i mean i've been quietly toiling away at for for years and years i mean the the film free solo the documentary uh captured sort of the two years of direct effort that i was putting into that climb but i've been thinking about it for i don't know six six years before that so i've been working at it forever and then finally managed to to actually feel comfortable and then climb it And so, you know, I mean, it's great documentary and, you know, yeah, one best picture or best documentary, all that kind of stuff. But but yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's just such a different process than like a huge live TV spectacle. I want to open it up for all of you guys to ask questions. But before we do that, Adam, is there any other kind of like insight that you want to share before you leave the stage here? Oh, yeah. Well, the only thing that comes to mind is that, I mean, you just did a Mount Wilson quad, which is another free solo. And you had told me that like what I didn't realize was between free solo and skyscraper, you'd done eight or nine solos that people didn't know about. that your MO is to kind of go figure out a project that inspires you, that gets you into kind of that flow state mode, and then just go do it kind of like low key, and no one ever sees. And you told me like no one even cares because it's not LCAP. And so then you – but I didn't realize you were doing that this whole time. Yeah, no, I mean I'm kind of constantly working on something that's exciting to me. So yeah, before the skyscraper thing in December, I did a solo project at home in Las Vegas that I was kind of proud of. It turned out being kind of dumber than I hoped for. It wasn't that cool. But it was hard and hasn't been done before. And it was cool. And it was challenging. And it sort of pushed me in the right way. It got me in the right space for soloing a skyscraper. But it was 4,000 vertical feet combined, right? Something like that. More than that, I think. Yeah. It was a lot. It was like 12 hours of exercise. but yeah up and down this this mountain four times it's a really big mountain is there another one on in your mind already not like that no actually i kind of think 2026 i might focus just on hard climbing like bouldering and sport kind of like safe climbing and leave the adventure stuff for for another year but we'll see because i've had many years in the past where i'm like this is going to be my year to focus on hard stuff and then i always get sucked into adventure stuff instead because it's so much more adventurous so much more fun This episode is brought to you by Noble Mobile. And oh my goodness I got to say the mission that this company is on is about as aligned with my values as could even be possible Because it's all about reclaiming our attention by changing our relationship with our phones. Noble is the first phone carrier that pays you to use your phone less. You heard me correctly. It sounds insane, but it's actually true. The big carriers out there all overcharge us. everyone for data that we don't actually use. And then they pair that with poor customer service and make it seem like there are no better options because their whole business model is built around keeping us glued to our screens. Noble flips that. You still get unlimited talk and text and 5G data and you get it on the T-Mobile network, which is an amazing network, but you also get it at a fraction of the price the big carriers charge. And on top of that, they pay you cash back for the data that you don't use, meaning that you can earn up to $20 a month. Not only did I keep my same phone number, it turned out to be this incredibly quick and easy process. But it's not just about saving money. It's about taking back your time and your attention. And right now, as a listener of this show, you can try Noble today for just $10. Go to noblemobile.com slash richroll. Get paid to use your phone less. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. You know it, you love it because Squarespace is the, not a, the all-in-one platform for building a website and growing your business online. Here is something I've observed over the years. So many people have so many meaningful ideas or creations to share, but they get stuck on the infrastructure, not the idea itself, the logistics of actually launching it. How do I build a website? How do I take payments or find an audience or a way for customers to find me? Well, Squarespace removes all of those obstacles. You can build a beautiful professional site using their templates or Blueprint AI, which generates a custom design based upon your specific goals. You can sell content, courses, videos, memberships, all behind a paywall. Handle scheduling and invoicing without outsourcing to five different platforms. The barrier to entry for sharing your work has never been lower. The tools exist. What's left is mustering the courage to actually put yourself out there. Head on over to squarespace.com slash richroll for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use code richroll to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. All right, let's open it up to all of you guys out here. Who wants to go first? Who's got a burning desire right there? That's the spirit. I really want to ask the question. Share with us your name and who you are. Hi, everybody. My name is Taylor. Hi, Rich. Hi, Alex. Thank you so much for doing this. This is so cool. Alex, I have a question for you. Your drive is so inspiring. um there's an instance that i specifically remember in your documentary free solo that you come down after six for successfully summoning it and you answer a question from one of your teammates where they say hey what are you going to do right now and you say oh i'm going to go back to my van and i'm going to do um pull-ups in my van um your drive do you find that that was always an intrinsic trait that you've had or have you had to like develop that and work on that that's an interesting question i mean i think my drive to climb is somewhat intrinsic like i love rock climbing and and i've always wanted to go climb more than i want to do anything else and then and i think there's a little bit of an innate you know if i'm going to do something i want to do it as well as i can and so but like that it's funny that that experience with free solo um basically I've been, I've been training every other day. I've been hangboarding every other day and feeling like great results from it. You know, I've been kind of in this nice, healthy routine where I was like, every other day I do this certain workout. And so naturally I'd rested the day before free selling all cap because I want to be fresh for all cap. So then I climbed all cap and then I was kind of like, well, you know, this is my day for hangboarding. I want to stick to my routine. And the routine has kind of like led me to the point that I was able to free solo cap. So you don't want to abandon this like really happy, healthy routine that's been working for you. And I mean, in some ways with the building, I've kind of experienced the same thing where I was like, oh, I've spent months training leading up to the building. It's like, I kind of want to keep that going as well as I can because I feel really fit. I've been climbing pretty well and I feel good about it. And so I don't know how much that's like innate drive or not, but it's kind of like once you find a nice, healthy system that's working for you and you feel like you're sort of living your best life, it's like you hate to give that up just because you did one climb or another. Sort of a follow up to that. How do you decide what to say yes to and what to say no to. And how do you anticipate handling what I'm sure are just an insane number of requests coming your way right now? You must just be getting shellacked with people who want you to go speak and all kinds of crazy stuff, right? And wanting to be the climber and stay fit and all of those things. Sometimes those are in conflict with each other. Yeah. Well, honestly, I've been working with the same team since 2012 or something the same sort of management team, which, you know, you share and, you know, I'm pretty well insulated from all that kind of stuff. And so in general, if, if my team tells me to do a thing, I'll just do the thing because that's the right thing to do. Um, and so, you know, it's like, if it's on my calendar, I do it. And if it doesn't show up on my calendar, then I don't. Um, so yeah, I mean, that's kind of, but the priority is always to be the best climber that I can be and, and to basically to send my project and, and the people that I work with all know that that's the priority. and so we try to layer in as many of these cool opportunities like the things that come up it's like try to do as much as i can while still being as good of a climber as i can so yeah i mean it is hard to hard to balance that stuff though uh all right who's next there hi i'm isadora i work for freaks of nature with this lovely man right here but uh it's for skincare for and by athletes yeah I know. I think we briefly met actually at North Face Climb. Oh, cool. But thank you both again for doing this. There's been a lot of media around the playlist. Obviously, a lot of Tool. I saw like Senses Fail, Linkin Park, maybe System of a Down, a lot of bangers on there. Has any of your favorite musicians reached out to you? Yeah, a couple people have reached out. A guy from the U's reached out and was like, come to a show. And I was like, sweet. I love the U's. since 1996. All the members of Tool commented on a couple of random social media things. I was like, Maynard, the dude. I was so psyched. For whatever reason, I think some of you musicians, I think some of that music I've listened to literally my whole life. To get comments from folks that I've loved their work for my whole life, I'm like, that's so great. Hopefully, I'll get to go to a few shows or something. Maybe one will want you to teach them how to climb a building. I would. If anybody wants to learn how to climb a building, you just ask. what's the craziest message that you've gotten in the aftermath of this? Like I'm imagining like Tom Cruise is watching this and he's like, I got to talk to Alex. I don't know. Actually. Well, so that's the thing is I don't really have the social apps on my phone. I have this weird manager thing. So I can't really see it just doesn't work the way social does, which is kind of better because otherwise I get sucked into it's just too crazy. I mean, I think since the building was just been going off, it's crazy. So I can't really get too sucked into it. I can kind of see like weird snapshots and get an idea of trends and stuff. but I just don't even know if or who was messaging. Then every once in a while I borrow my wife's phone because I'm just like, oh, what did people say about my playlist? You just can't resist the urge to see. People love the playlist. Oh, yeah. Oh, great. It's funny because I made that playlist while I was driving across Nevada. I was just alone in my van for a long time, driving for eight hours. I was just sort of like, what are songs that I love that I'd be happy to listen to? Had I known them to be such a public thing, I maybe would have curated a little bit more, but that really just reflected one drive where I was like, this is what I want to listen to you right now. Hey, Alex. Hey, Rich. Stuart Ambrose from the Finding Mastery team. So great to be here and so grateful that you got to do this for us. So I got to watch the climb that you did with my children. And I have a nine-year-old and I have a 14-year-old and they were gobsmacked the entire time. You now have two young children too. And I'm just curious, what did this experience? Is there anything you wish your kids would learn or other kids that got to watch it would learn and would take away from it? I was curious how that, now that especially that you're a parent, how you approached that element of it. It was really special to watch it with kids who were just in awe. So thank you. My children are going to turn two and four in the next couple weeks. And they were the opposite of gobsmacked. They were like, this is boring. So we, uh, we watched the first 20 minutes with them when we got home and, uh, and then we had to put them to bed and we gave up. They didn't really care. We're like, Oh, we'll watch it eventually. But, um, but no, I mean, I think in general, I mean, I hope that older kids, if they take anything from that, they just take the, you know, sort of the effort, the preparation that they see that something that looks impossible or looks really hard is actually fine. If you put the effort into it and you, and you make it happen. And I don't know. I mean, I hate to, you know, you don't want to like live your dreams, all that kind of like random stuff. But hopefully for a kid, you can see that and be like, oh, like it doesn't matter what other people say is normal or expected or what, you know, should be possible. It's like if you think you can do a thing and you train for it and you feel prepared, like go do the thing. I hope. But not that I'm encouraging kids to go climb skyscrapers. But, you know, with a lifetime of training, why not? Do you think about that? do you worry or are you concerned that like people who shouldn't be climbing skyscrapers are now going to go out and like try to do that as a real person? That was a common question during the free solo film tour. It's like, oh, aren't you worried you're going to inspire kids to go free solo big walls? And I was like, no, it's pretty self-selecting. It's like basically, I mean, free soloing is pretty hard. And so you just can't really get that high. You know, it's like basically you have to intentionally make each move. So you're like, I'm going up a move. I'm going up another move. And if you're not cut out for it, you're not physically and psychologically prepared, once you're eight feet off the ground, you're like, this is really scary. And it's kind of hard to get high enough where you're actually going to die unless you're really choosing to be there. So I'm kind of like, it's not one of those things that people can imitate. If you're not an elite rock climber, you can't just walk up to the base elk cat and be like, I'm free soloing it. So you literally can't get off the ground. And with Type 0-1-1, like I was saying earlier, one of the first move off the ground is actually kind of hard. And so just right there, it's like the average person can't just walk up and do it. They won't get off the ground. And then even if they do, once they mantle up the first little thing and they're standing there, they're maybe eight feet off the ground, they'd be like, oh, this is kind of scary. I'm going to break my ankle on the concrete. And then unless they're really psyched and they have a plan, they're just not going to make it much higher. I want to hear from Sonny. Is Sonny here? There she is. Oh, wow. I know that, Sonny, everyone asks you, how do you deal with it? What is your emotional state? when Alex is doing all of these things? How do you process the risk and the fear? I want to know what the aftermath, the last week or how long has it been? Two weeks or something like that? I know there's been a week. A week has been for you and what the experience of being in Taipei was like for you from your perspective. So Taipei was interesting because I don't watch Alex Free Solo that much. I wasn't there when he soloed El Cap. I have seen him solo a decent amount. Like when he did this big link up in Red Rock, I watched part of it. And I've obviously seen him at the crag just kind of playing around, soloing things. But something this big of this nature, I hadn't watched in person before. And I don't love it. Like it's very stressful, even if I feel like he's confident. And I think because the conditions had been so bad leading up to the climb, I was way more stressed than I thought I was going to be because for so long, we'd just been like, oh, the climb's going to be fine. Like that wasn't the part I was worried about. I was worried about maybe like the public nature of it and being in the public eye again and things like that. And then the actual week came and I was like, wait, this isn't feeling as secure as I wanted it to feel. what the heck and so um so I was more stressed than I thought I would be but then at the same time you know I saw I was with my friend and I saw Alex smile and wave at that first thing and she was like he's fine look it's great and in my heart I think I was kind of like he's fine it's great but my brain kind of kept being like what if it's too hot what if it's too windy and just really wanting to like protect him and feeling really protective of him um but he handled the pressure so well and it all went so well. And honestly, as a team, I think that there were so many people there supporting him. And afterwards, it was almost like you almost come down off of this high where you're like, wow, that was so special. I think the thing I was really surprised by was how special it felt to share it with Taipei and with all the audience and everyone just felt so excited about it. And then you kind of come down from that. You're like, whoa, it's over. Like, okay. And I had this moment where the next morning I went on a walk and it was this feeling of like, okay, that was sort of Alex's art. And it was this beautiful thing and it was so special and it went out into the world and now you let go of it and you just say, okay, it's over. And now we just go back to our normal life and we enjoy that just as much. And I had to kind of let it out of my heart. And it was almost nostalgic. I was leaving our hotel room and I was like, this is where we played ping pong before Taipei 101. But yeah, you let it out of your heart and you go back to normal life and you enjoy that too. So anyways, a bit of a roller coaster and a bit of a journey, but it was surprisingly emotional and special with the whole audience there. And then it was good to come home and be with our kids too. What did you guys do for the rest of the day after you finished the climb? Did a bunch of press stuff and then had a crazy dumpling dinner. But no, it was just like hanging out with everybody. I mean, honestly, actually, my cheeks hurt that day from smiling so much and like laughing. Like all our friends are so everyone is so psyched. Actually, something Sonny just said, the city of Taipei, it was really special being in the city because Taipei 101 holds such cultural significance for the city of Taipei and sort of the island of Taiwan. It's like the people are so rightfully proud of this incredible architectural landmark. You know, it's like this iconic building. And so people in the city were really freaking psyched on the whole thing. And so I hadn't totally anticipated that beforehand, like just how much pride there was around the building. And then afterward, the next day when we were flying out, I just hadn't really realized that the local media was so psyched. The unsung heroes in this whole affair are the rigging team, the camera team. This was just an extraordinary production. And I think that it was a real feat to pull this off and to be able to really capture from all these amazing angles the gravity of the situation. It was absolutely riveting. And the reason for that is because Plimsoll, the production company behind this was behind the wheel. They were the ones who were in charge of the production. And we are very fortunate today to have both Grant and Alan from Plimsoll here. So I wanted everybody to first, give these guys a hand for just an incredible job. And I wondered if either of you two guys would be willing to share some insights of what it was like from your perspective of having to, you know, kind of shoulder the responsibility of this production while also, like, having a relationship with Alex and, you know, the stakes being so high. Hello, I'm Grant, a pencil company I founded. So I was there, and it was pretty stressful for us. I mean, you don't, but obviously you're aware of the fact you can't wander around saying you're stressful if you're just producing the TV show. But I was talking to, I think I was talking to Sani last night, and I was saying it's quite an interesting experience for me as a producer because normally you sit in the gallery for a live show. You're pretty wound up because you're worried about getting the shots and making sure the show's everything you want it to be. But I think for most of us in the gallery that day, there was an extra level of stress. And we weren't just worried about the shots. In fact, more than anything else, we were worried about Alex. And so it was a strange experience. You were trying to do your job, but the thing you were really focused on was, was Alex okay? And going back to what you said earlier, I hated Alex when he spent as much time as he did still on top of that building. I think everybody, everybody just thought you've made it. You wanted to come down. The other thing, the other insight, which I think is really interesting, is that the director of the show said to the whole crew in the gallery, look, I know everybody will be very excited when he gets to the top, but we've got work to do. No one is to say anything. So Alex gets to the top of the building. Everybody ignores it, jumps up and down and starts whooping and hollering. There was a collective sigh of relief. I've got it on camera somewhere. But for me, the overwhelming sense was, I mean, listen, I obviously in awe of what Alex did, very proud of what our crew did. But to speak to what Sani said, there's just a lovely esprit de corps down there. I mean, you know, we've been working with Alex and his team for a few years. And I sent Alex a note afterwards. I mean, obviously, he's an extraordinary athlete, but it turns out that, you know, he's actually a really extraordinary human being, nice, humble guy and lovely family. So it's been a, you know, it's been a pleasure, actually. Yeah, I would just add that I've worked with Plumasol on the last two TV things that I've done and great folks to work with. And then Plumasol hires out all the camera people and the rigors and they're basically the same team of people, some of whom I worked with on the film Free Solo. Other ones I've worked with on the last couple of TV things I've done. but many of whom I've known for 20 years and been on a bunch of expeditions with and camped with all over the world and so when it comes down all the people on the wall and the people that I'm actually interacting with as we shoot this program I mean a lot of them are some of my best friends basically and I'm like oh it's so fun we're all just out here hanging on ropes playing around like doing the thing that we do just like we did have on all these other expeditions different places and so and that's actually something because so many some of you have asked me questions about sort of the intensity of the live experience you're like well I'm basically just up there playing with my friends just like if it wasn't a live experience and we were just on an expedition somewhere shooting you know still photos of some epic big wall it's like it's kind of the same you know lived experience for me you're just out there climbing with your friends with a little bit more stress any other questions there we go hi um alexander a question for alex um we had earlier a little bit about the impact on children uh i was very keen to hear about your own perspective as a father and how being a father and the paternal role has changed your own perspective on risk tolerance, if at all? Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I get asked questions like that quite a lot. And I mean, I think that, I don't know, I mean, it's complicated, but I think overall, I'm at home a lot more than I was. So I think my overall risk profile is lower than it used to be just because I'm spending so much more time training in my garage and just being at home and not like adventuring in the mountains and going on expeditions to find big mountains and things. That said, I kind of think the capacity to take, you know, controlled risk is seemingly not that changed so far. Um, though I wouldn't be surprised if my appetite for taking risk just slowly dies over time. Maybe, I don't know. Um, you know, we'll kind of see, but so far it seems like, you know, I've done a handful of big soloing projects other than the skyscraper and things. I've done a handful of other solos in the last four or five years since we've had kids, where I was like, oh, I can still do this and I still enjoy doing this. But it's like whether or not I want to for forever, it's like, we'll see. When we were chatting in New York, we were talking about like this time period, this frame of time, like you basically have like five years, like where you're going to be in this peak condition, like at your age. And so do you think about that window of time and, you know, for, for accomplishing like your, your, your bigger goals or like for the, for the most difficult things that, you know, you want to be able to do. Like this is, you have a, you have a couple of years now where you can be in this peak physical condition to accomplish those. Does that enter into how you make decisions about what you want to do next? A little bit, but actually less so than you might think, just because most of my free soloing projects are so far from my physical limit, just because the nature of free soloing is that you have to stay well enough within your comfort zone that you don't fall to your death. And so, uh, you know, when you talk about sort of like the, the decline from age, which, you know, obviously will be happening soon. I turned 40 this year and some sort of like well past, you know, if you think you peak at like 23 physically, I'm sort of like well down the other side, but thankfully climbing, I think has a pretty long and slow decline just because it's so skill-based, so much technique and it's less of an impact on your body than most other sports that people think of. And so I think you can remain an elite climber for much longer than most sports. But then that said, I mean, I think for free soloing, like I'm saying, because it's so within my comfort zone, it doesn't totally matter if my top end power is a little bit diminished just because either way, soloing is more of a psychological thing. That said, though, I do think that I'll just lose the appetite a little bit, especially as I get older. And part of that is just I've already gotten to do so many things that I'm proud of and so many things that I wanted to do. And it's like I've already lived my dream a little bit. I'm kind of like, I don't know if I need to solo that many more. I mean, maybe I need to move around more. Because I just lived in my van in the western U.S. for so long, and I did so many of the routes that I thought were important to me. So I'm like, maybe if I lived in Europe for a while and kind of had a different host of routes to be inspired by. But I'm like, that's the thing with the experience that I had soloing in December around home. I was like, am I scraping the bottom of the barrel? Like, am I just doing stuff that's kind of dumb now? Because I've already done the things that I really care about. I'm like, I just need greener pastures if I'm going to solo a lot more. Or bigger buildings. Well, for a guy whose original goal was like, how do I figure out a way to climb and take a living? I think it's working out all right. Exactly. Yeah, I set out with a very limited goal, and I'm like wildly exceeding. It's all good. All right. Next question. Hey, I would love to ask a question about mental health, which is a big topic in society and in athletics in particular. I'm Eve, by the way. I work with the Masters of Scale podcast. and I know that when you talk about your own experience, I feel like sometimes you're expressing this sense you're this remarkable person who's done these things, but you're normal to you, right? So sort of wondering how your relationship with understanding how other people perceptions of you should or shouldn impact the way you sort of feel and just how you generally take care of your mental health but also just how you go about being in a world as a person who you know other people are signaling to you that you not normal But how do you go about navigating that and just how's that all going? I mean, well, I just I think they're not normal. You know, it's like I'm the normal and everybody else has got some weird stuff going on. I don't know why they're all stressed. no honestly I don't know I'm just living I'm just doing my thing I'm doing the best I can everybody else has got to take a chill pill what does stress you out anything? I get stressed out when both kids are screaming I'm like ah it's just a lot travel work stuff being away from home not being able to climb that feeling like I suck at climbing kind of stresses me out I felt great in Taipei randomly I've been training quite a lot I've been feeling really strong I had a couple of really good gym sessions, climbing gym in Taipei. And I was like, oh, I feel really good. And then I climbed the building. I was like, I feel great. I'm peaking. And I kind of thought I was going to go home and send my project at this cave that I was working on. So I was like, I feel great. And then I went home and I completely sucked, which I tried not to get too worked up about because I was kind of like, if you think of it as post-expedition or something or sort of like a deload after months of training or who knows. But anyway, I was kind of like, oh, I completely sucked the first day I came home. I was like, okay, I can deal. and then I went back to the same thing and completely sucked even worse and was like okay like that's a you know that's the type of stuff that stresses me out when you're like what if it's not working why why do I suck like I'm trying so hard and I just can't do it and then I had a third day where I also totally sucked and then I was starting to get a little stressed and then randomly I came here to do Jimmy Kimmel last night and freaking just crushed in the gym yesterday and I was like okay all is not lost so we'll see I don't know but that's like that's I don't know I mean I guess and actually that makes it sound like two folks on performance So basically, I think that the stressor there is when you're worried that you're on the wrong path. When you're sort of like, oh, I've devoted all this effort to training in certain ways. What if it's not working? Am I wasting my time? Am I already deep in physical decline? Do I just not have it? It's like those types of things stress you out. Because that's basically a question of like, am I wasting my life at a pursuit that I just can't do? But then you're like, no, no. Sometimes I get glimmers of hope. Like on the top of some crazy building. I'll say it again. I think it's working out. Well, you know. All right. Here we go. Oh, Alexi. Hi, I'm Alexi. I was wondering, do you feel the difference in your own experience, not like safety wise, but like the actual athletic experience between being in nature, doing a free solo and doing something with like a man-made building? And my relationship to it is like trail running versus like track and road running feels very different to me. That's an interesting question. I think that the difference between climbing a building and climbing rock is different is less than the difference between trail running and road running because you know obviously i've run a bit not not like you but but um but it's just so different you know like it feels but climbing like i love i've grown up climbing in a climbing gym and climbing in a climbing gym is obviously really different than than real rock outside but then actually even a real rock outside is incredibly varied depending on the type of rock like climbing limestone totally different than climbing sandstone totally different than climbing you know slate quarries in the UK. Random types of rock feel completely different. So climbing a building is not that different in a way. You're like, yeah, it's really slick, but it's not that different than some problems in a climbing gym. So, I don't know. It's all part of the general experience of climbing. But do you like it the same? Oh, no. I mean, if I had to choose one for the rest of my life, I'd rather climb real rocks. But as far as novelty and an incredible experience and seeing a beautiful view and all that kind of stuff, it's pretty freaking cool. and yeah I got a lot of questions about that before the climate like why would you climb a building I'm kind of like I've literally spent the last 20 years traveling the world to climb different types of rocks all over and sometimes you're seeking them out like I just said the slate quarries in the UK the slate quarries are known for being incredibly smooth with like these it's almost like climbing glass it's like these incredibly small edges on completely smooth walls and I'm like it's not that dissimilar to climbing a building and you know I've been like seeking out things like that around the world for years to get these different climate experiences and I'm kind of like if you get the opportunity to climb this incredible thing just because it's a building doesn't, you know, it's like you still say yes. In addition to just the height of Taipei 101 and kind of it just being this legendary building, like what is it about that building that made it attractive for you to climb versus some other super tall skyscraper? I mean, so there are a few things. One, it's singular in the landscape, like in the city, it sticks out. Like all the other buildings are so small. And the first time that I saw the building in 2013 or something, it was even more striking. Now they've built a couple other tall buildings nearby that rise to one-third height, maybe half height. So it's still way bigger than everything else. But at the time when I first saw it, the whole city was tiny. And then there was this gigantic building. And the first time I saw it, I think it was the fifth or sixth tallest building in the world. And when it opened, it was the tallest building in the world in 2004. Now it's like the 11th or 12th or something. But basically, it's just this giant building that totally dwarfs the whole landscape. So like, that's cool. And the same way that climbing, uh, you know, when you rock climb, it's nice to climb a mountain. It's twice as big as everything around it. You're like, that's a fricking mountain. You know, so you see type one, one, you're like, that's a building. But then also it's possible, which is a big plus because some buildings are just not possible. They're just sheer smooth glass or whatever. And then not only is it possible, but it's just cool. Like the features that you climb are secure and easy enough, but hard enough to be interesting. And so it just, you know, all the interesting sort of ornamental features climbing over the dragons, climbing over the ruins, like the crazy roofs up at the top. You know, some buildings are really boring. This building is about as interesting as buildings get. So I was like, oh, it's pretty cool. All right. Anybody else out here? Hey, Jonathan McKenzie at Turtle Box. First, I want to take you up on, you said you would teach anybody how to climb a building. So just let me know next steps. That sounds fun. Is this building climbable? It's not really. We'll have to look outside. I'm not sure. I didn't see anything obvious. No, it's interesting that you said you just turned 40. So I just turned 40 two weeks ago. And I find it interesting that, you know, Rich, you have an amazing story that started at 40 in a lot of ways. And longevity kind of being a buzzword of the day. I know that me and a lot of people are thinking about just how to live a fantastic life, you know, beyond the next 40 years, you know, possibly into our 90s and even hundreds. Is that something that you think about? Do you think about, you know, what you're going to do to not slow down, what you're going to do to keep living an adventurous and fulfilling life? Yeah, for sure. I'd say I have a greater interest in health than average. You know, I've read a lot of the books and things like that and, you know, I try to take care of myself. But, yeah, Tim, I'm very interested in living as long as possible. I mean, we have kids. I'm going to have grandkids hopefully someday and, you know, have the whole family scene. It's like that would be amazing. But, yeah, I do all things. That said, you know, I know that when I do eventually die, I'm still going to be like, man, I wish it was a lot longer. And so I'm kind of like, well, you just got to do the things you can along the way because either way, it's going to feel pretty short in the end. I kind of want to do the Phil Donahue thing and, like, walk around in there. So good. You should. You did. Hey, Alex, Tony from Riven here. I've always loved hearing you talk about playfulness and joy. I got to watch this with my seven-year-old niece and she could clearly see how much fun you were having. I'm curious, what role does playfulness and joy play in your selection of your projects? How do you factor that in in advance of the project? That's interesting, actually, because I don't know if play factors that much into the selection of projects necessarily, but I do think it's sort of at the core of all of my climbing and training and just the whole process around it. I mean, I think that projects like the skyscraper climb have so much to do with whether or not you get permission to do it, whether or not the production company comes together, whether or not a company like Netflix is on board to actually air something like that. It really is just, there's so many factors that are totally outside your control. So you kind of just have to wait and see if the things all come together. But I would say the play is at the center of every day of climbing. So basically all the practice. I went to the gym this morning, had a great session, had fun, did all the problems. It was like, oh, this is so cool. And I went to the gym yesterday. I'll probably go to the climbing gym tomorrow. And each day, I'm like, that's kind of a highlight of the day. So you're having fun, you're playing. And so I think that all those days are what allow you to have these big... I think people see Skyscraper Live on TV and they're like, that's this pinnacle experience. And you're kind of like, well, really, it's the months leading up to it that are the really fun part. And then, of course, the climb is cool and the experience is very meaningful. The view from the building is incredible. It's cool, but really it's like the months and months of fun getting to it. There we go. Straight behind you. Straight behind. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, Alex. I'm Tyler from Manhattan Beach. One really simple question. Did you sleep the night before the climb? Yeah. Yeah, pretty well. Kind of, except that I was super jet lagged. We were waking up at four. It was kind of weird. But no, I basically slept well. Yeah. So the night before, so it was delayed the day before. And the night before that day, I'd sort of looked out the window and I hadn't even packed my bag for the next morning. I was like, there's no chance for doing it tomorrow. Even though technically it was still like, I'm supposed to solo a skyscraper tomorrow morning. But basically it was like raining. The forecast looked horrible. I just looked out the window. I was like, there's no chance, even though it hasn't actually been called yet. And so I didn't even pack. I didn't do anything. The next day I was kind of looking out the window and I was like, I kind of think I'm doing it tomorrow. And so I'd packed my bag. I had everything all laid out. I was ready. I was psyched. And then, yeah, we slept pretty well and got up at whatever time we were supposed to. And it was all fine, which is actually an interesting thing, kind of when you can tell that a project is coming together for you, because when you wake up and you're like, oh, I'm excited to go do a thing, it's really different than like, oh, God. And actually, I think I said this to my wife at some point while we were on the trip, but when you're in the big mountains trying to climb really extreme alpine climbs and things like that, you often camp at the base of some objective and you're sort of secretly hoping that it rains or it snows or something because you're kind of afraid to actually have to go up and do the thing that you're there to do you're sort of like oh i hope it snows so we don't have to climb the thing because you're like you look up at the wall and you're like i don't want to climb the thing it seems like really scary you know and and you know that you can and you're and you're still going to try but you're sort of secretly like i kind of hope it snows and with the building i think at first i was kind of like i don't know like i don't like this is all sort of stressful but then by the time the day came i was like oh i'm so psyched that it's perfect weather because it's game time like here we go i'm curious to know i feel like free solo is one of the most impressive things i'll ever see in my lifetime um as is now type a what's the most impressive thing you've ever witnessed in your lifetime that's an interesting question you mean like in a film or in in real life uh well i just feel you've been on so many amazing like trips and expeditions and like what's the one thing to you that just stands out you're like i may never see that again oh i don't know i mean literally this week I saw a kid climb something at this cave where I've been climbing. I was like, I've just never seen a human climb like that. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Kid Tyler. I'm like, I don't know. It's like totally next level. It's like next generation type stuff. But I don't know. I've had a couple of random experiences. Actually, have any of you guys seen the film The Alpinist? It's like another climbing documentary. So that was about this guy, Marc-Andre Leclerc. And actually, so I was just saying that sometimes you're camped in a tent and you're sort of secretly hoping that it snows. So I was camped in the Torre Valley, like below in Patagonia in southern Argentina. And a friend and I were going to try to do the Torre Traverse. And Marc Andre went up and soloed one of the spires, Cerro Torre. It's like this really striking, iconic tower. And so when we started our little traverse, we could look across and see this tiny, tiny black dot alone on this 4,000 foot granite and ice spire thing. It was insane. And I was kind of like, I cannot believe that there's just a dude by himself climbing this like crazy mountain. And he wound up climbing the crazy mountain and descending and have this incredible experience. We climbed 3.9 of the four spires, got totally hammered by a storm, retreated off the wrong side of the mountain range, and then did a 20-hour death march around the entire mountain range with no food. And we lost all of our gear. We lost our tent. We lost everything. And then I flew home because the trip was over because I lost everything I owned. And I was sort of like, well, that wraps up the season. Anyway, that's a random story. I remember watching that film. And at the beginning, if memory serves me, there's voiceover of you on Tim Ferriss' podcast. And I think Tim asked you something like, you know, who inspires you or, you know, who are the people that, like, you look to? And you mentioned Ella as being kind of an inspirational figure. Mark Andre. Mark Andre. Yeah, Mark Andre. Mark Andre. As just being this, you know, purist, inspirational person. is there anyone else that inspires you like who do you look to oh i mean all kinds of climbing heroes i mean you know you mean contemporary or sort of through childhood and through just in general maybe even outside of the climbing world well she's i mean yeah when you're asking about sort of like impressive human feats inspired me so like philippe petite uh from the documentary man on wire if anyone's seen it like walking the tightrope between the the twin towers like the World Trade Center. I mean, I saw that film before I'd free sell that Al Cap and it really captured me as like, you know, he's like such a unusual individual with this quixotic, like he just wants to do this crazy thing and then he just pursues it and he doesn't. It's so incredible and it's amazing to see. And I remember being really struck by that documentary. I was like, oh, that's so cool. And, you know, and at the time I was like thinking about Al Cap and I was really drawn to it, but it just felt like this whole, you know, I was like, I don't know, is that too much? Is that too crazy. So I think that film is particularly inspiring. And then I've met him at a few events since then, like done some panels with him and things. I was like, what a character. He's like such a, but he's like, it's interesting because he comes from sort of like a circus background and it's like really different than, than a rock climbing background. But, um, but anyway, it's still super inspiring. I don't know if you're aware, but after, uh, the Taipei climb, it sort of initiated or, or kicked up this whole discourse around whether or not you are the world's greatest living athlete? Are you aware of this conversation that's happening? Are you the world's greatest living athlete? And if not, who is in your opinion? I would give a strong no. I mean, I think it really comes down to how you would evaluate that. I mean, how do you determine who's a strong athlete? But I think by any basic measures of fitness, I would not be the greatest stuff. It's like if you're measuring VO2 max, you're measuring splits for miles or running or swimming or basically any measurable thing, I would not be the best. But you are gambling your life with these things. It's interesting. You live in Las Vegas. You don't gamble, but you're actually the biggest gambler in the whole place. Yeah. I like to joke. I only gamble with my life, but that's a joke. All right. No, but I think, so actually you say that though, but there are plenty of other athletes though like tour de france riders are riding you know 60 miles an hour plus downhill wearing lycra and like ski racers i mean the winter olympics are coming up in a week and it's like downhill ski racers are doing 60 80 miles an hour freaking wearing lycra and you know it's like it might not look as extreme as as free soloing a skyscraper but it's like i'm sure i don't know that much about ski racing i don't really know much about anything except for climbing but i'm sure occasionally there are accidents where ski racers die you know it's like i'm sure there must be times when people go horrifically out of bounds, like fly headfirst into a thing and die. And you're sort of like all these sports have consequences, like they are dangerous. And so for whatever reason, people think of those as normal because they're like ski racing. My kids do that. I'm looking at you kids in the back who are now into ski racing. You know, it's like, like all those kinds of things are considered normal because they're sort of mainstream. But I'm kind of like, they're not really that much safer necessarily than rock climbing, which, you know, I mean, most people rock climbing is a gym. It's super safe. It's like, anyway, there's a whole rant about risk and how you evaluate it and everything. Do you get tired of people asking you about fear and risk and all of that? This is just the question that gets asked to you in every single interview. No, I mean, actually, in some ways, I'm starting to come. I'd say I used to get more annoyed talking about it. Now I'm starting to come around a little bit where I'm like, in a way, that's the idea that I have that's worth sharing a little bit because I think that people should think about that more. And I'm like, oh, I don't mind talking about it because I'm kind of like, I want people to think about it. I mean, particularly with this project, we're like, well, why is this sport considered dangerous where it's like boxing is considered okay. I'm like, just because boxing is mainstream, it's like that guy's getting punched in the face over and over. You're like, how is that cool? You know, it's like, I didn't get punched in the face. I feel great. I finished the building. I came down. I had lunch. I felt wonderful. You know, I didn't have to get my jaw like wired back on. It's like, geez. But on the death piece also, just being so connected with your own mortality, like being present with the idea that, you know, you are, you know, you're kind of living on the edge, the outer edge of, of, of, you know, your capabilities where that is a real risk has you, you're, you're deeply connected to like that idea. And most of us are. And, but I would argue that we all should be, because this is what I'm saying. We're all going to die the same. This is your message. Like, you know, this is like, we should, we should be thinking about these things and putting ourselves in situations where we're more present with that. So what is it that you have learned from like being that person who does that, that is worthy for all of us to like understand and hear? I don't know. But, but I do think that, that being mindful of your own mortality helps put other things in perspectives and helps put a lot of, a lot of anxieties and fears and other kinds of things into perspective. It's kind of like a lot of the little stuff just doesn't fricking matter when you think that either way you're going to die pretty soon. You're kind of like, you know, like, like don't sweat the small stuff. I mean, it's all sort of cliche and whatever. But I mean, I think that the fact that we're all going to die, there's never a downside to evaluating your immortality, thinking about the way that you're spending your time, thinking about the path that you're on. Like, are you doing the things that are important to you? Are you spending your time in the way that you think is most useful? You know, that means the most to you. Like, are you basically, are you living in line with your values? It's like, how often do people really think about that kind of thing? And I think that having, you know, being face to face with your immortality is a good way to evaluate. I mean, people talk about that when they have like cancer scares and things like that. And they're sort of like, oh, I came face to face in my own mortality. I realized that I was going down this crazy corporate career that wasn't in line with my values and I changed everything and now I live a better life. I'm kind of like, you can just do that through free soul. You should try. Save a bunch of hassle. I guess just go straight to the clip. We're getting near the end here. So please raise your hand. I want to make sure that everybody has their opportunity with Alex to ask them what you want. Now they're all bummed out. They're like, am I spending my life the right way? I know. Like, what am I doing with myself? I'm Meredith with Step Studios, and I guess I want to hear something outside of the fear and risk side. But now that you're spending more time at home, maybe choosing the risks that you take a little bit more wisely, what are you finding you're doing with some of your downtime that's not focused on climbing? Are there any guilty pleasures? Are there any hobbies that you're picking up that would show us a different side of you? Yeah, I really like playing ping pong. It's super fun. We have a ping pong table in our gym, so I use it to warm up and cool down and rest in between stuff when I'm training. So fun. And then, I don't know, I do crossword every day. I love crosswording. But that's about it. Those are my weird little hobbies. But nothing else too exciting going on. And then a lot of parenting, basically, with having little kids yell at you and then poop on the carpet. It's the worst. Any other questions? Let's go play some table tennis and think about death. Before we end it, I did want to give you the opportunity to share a little bit about this upcoming TV show that you're involved in. Get a little about there? Yeah. Do your plug, dude. Is that the thing to plug? Yeah. I shot this travel show. In some ways, it's a wonderful contrast to the building climb. I shot this travel show if I would get a little out there. It's like for travel Nevada. And I toured around Nevada and did outdoor adventures sort of in my home stakes. I'm from, I live in Las Vegas. It was freaking awesome. It was super fun, sort of cultural experience. And in a way, I was like, man, shooting a travel show is way more chill than shooting like a free soloing extravaganza because you basically just go have fun adventures with your friends, check out new places, meet interesting people. It was great. But I think that comes out in a couple of weeks. So, yeah, so if anybody's interested in traveling around about it, you should see it. And what's going on at the Honnold Foundation these days? Oh, it's freaking going off. I have a foundation that supports community solar projects around the world. And, I mean, in general, we're always raising as much as we can and giving as much as we can. I think it's every year we do an open call for grant applications, which I think is open right now. So we're currently soliciting applications from around the world for community solar projects. And I think we've given over $10 million to date to projects around the world. So, yeah. Thanks. You inspire us all. I appreciate you taking the time to be here, you know, so quickly after this extraordinary thing that you did that just really captured the hearts and minds of all of us all across the world. You're a true inspiration, Alex. And I think you might be our greatest living athlete, whether you like it or not. No chance. I always enjoy spending time with you. And this is just really fun and great. So thank you. Appreciate it. Big hand for Alex. Thank you, guys. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or a comment. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com slash sponsors. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis and Morgan McRae with assistance from our creative director, Dan Drake. Content management by Shana Savoy. Copywriting by Ben Pryor. And of course, our theme music was created all the way back in 2012 by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love. Love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. God bless.