Mike Tomlin Steps Down! Steelers' Next Steps, and Hottest Coaches Available.

Welcome to the Rigger Fantasy Football Show. My name is David Hyffitz. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and a crestfallen Craig Whirlbeck. Let's just get right to a Craig, you're a Steelers fan. Mike Tomman, Steelers coach, has decided to step down. Craig, how do you feel about this? I feel conflicted because I think this is the right move and yet I'm really sad. I feel like Tomman has become a punchline the last couple seasons and I actually think I want to pivot and go sincere here. I think I could have been like, yeah, man, we can't win the big one. Nine straight seasons without a losing record and zero playoff wins. There's all the stats that you can't miss one of them on Twitter right now. It is just filled with all the stats about how Tomman has done in the playoffs the last nine years. But I don't know, man, Tomman didn't have a losing season for 19 years and I think I is one of the most remarkable. Like if you just kind of pull back and think about that, did not have a losing season for 19 years. Every year he was the head coach in the NFL, he did not have a losing record, which I think is absolutely incredible. To me, he currently is and will forever be the coolest coach in the league, my favorite coach of all time. An unbelievable quote, a real old school coach, like a real motivator, a floor razor, a mentor, a guy who like cared about all the little stuff, like cared about the personal lives of all these athletes and players on his team. Tomman is like what do you think of when you look up what a coach is in the dictionary? He is the quintessential coach. So look, do I think this was the right move? Yeah, probably. Things are going stale. The coordinators have not been good for a long time. You know, a lot of this can be, I feel like a lot of the discussion here is about personnel and coordinators and stuff like that. Because if you look at it kind of from a base level, it's like what Tomman was able to do since the pandemic, basically with 39 year old Ben Rathasberger with duck Hodges, with Mason Rudolph, with Kenny Pickett, with Russell Wilson, with Justin Fields, with 42 year old Aaron Rogers. He never had a losing season with all those quarterbacks. Like that is impressive and then he is a floor razor. And you could say the Steelers hung on too long. You could call the Steelers stubborn. You could also call them loyal and stable and steady. They've had three coaches since the moon landing and are now looking for their fourth, which is unbelievable. So yeah, this is better sweet for me because I think he is what outside of Bill Bellichek, he is more tied to his team than any coach of the 20th century. Well, how do you follow that up? I was supposed to be like making fun of this or something, but yeah, I was like, you know, what? I'm going to start sincere because I think I think the jokes have gone, the jokes are funny and I've been doing them all year and I've said Thomas should be fired two months ago. But it was as recently as last week when they beat the Ravens in remarkable fashion, I was like sweat back up and I was like, keep them. I love them. I get the best. I'm guessing like Patriots fans can probably relate a little bit when Bellichek left. Obviously Raven fans parba. It reminds me a lot of when Pete Carroll left because it was like very much the same thing. And I think Craig, we went through a very similar process where I was alternating between Pete's the best. Pete Carroll's the best. We got to keep him. He just raises the floor. It was the same exact deal. Like every year he was competitive. He didn't have a losing season for like 10 straight years or whatever. 13 to 11 straight years. You know, there's a feeling. So it's almost like a father figure. It's like he's a guiding light for the city in a lot of ways. Like guiding you through these wins and losses, the ups and downs, like all the quotes are so funny. So I can very much relate to like the feelings you're having when I felt the exact same way. I think when Pete left, but it was very much like it's time. It's a good moment for new ideas to come in. And you know, just after a certain amount of time, what are you doing to get better? What are you doing to get over that hump? Obviously, like I think he gives you the floor, but how do you get a little bit better so you can finally start winning some playoff games as a kid at the bottom line? I think Rogers provided almost like a nice natural period on this chapter where it's like he came in for Mike Tomlin. I don't think Rogers is going to come back. I was going to ask. I don't think he wanted to be in Pittsburgh with my Tomlin. He could go to a different team still, but I definitely don't think he'll be back on the Steelers. And if I had to guess, I think he's going to retire. Acman on the broadcast last night seemed pretty sure that Rogers was going to retire. I don't know if he was in center and following that or if it's just his gut as a former quarterback. But this did feel like kind of a natural ending point in a time for the Steelers to pull back. I mean, look, when they hired Tomlin in 2007, that was kind of an unexpected hire. He was not an internal hire. And he had been a defensive coordinator for one year, probably, or that he was the youngest coach. He was the youngest head coach in the league when he came to the Steelers and turned into the longest tenured coach in the NFL. So I think this is a natural, like we should be absolutely celebrating this. And I do not. Time will eventually favor how we look back on Tomlin. I think there is a little bit of a punchline right now because of like the last four or five years. We're going to look back on what Tomlin did. Obviously, it's incredibly one of Super Bowl. He went to two of them. Yeah, I think this is a natural point. I like that the Steelers said that he is stepping down. It's not a firing. Even though it probably was a mutual parting of ways. Or I don't know exactly how that went down. But I think this is right. I think this is right across the board. Yeah, I mean, and again, we're going to get to what Mike Tomlin does next, too, because Mike Tomlin is 53 years old. Yeah. And this is not the end for him unless he wants to. 20 years younger than Pete Carroll. 20 years younger than Pete Carroll. Mike Tomlin is 10 years younger than John Harbaugh. So you want to talk about having a second actor, whatever you think about what Andy Reed did in Kansas City after leaving the Eagles. Like Mike Tomlin can go and have a 15 year coaching career somewhere else. And that would not be weird by any stretch of the imagination. So I also heard, I think Mike Florio from Prophobaltox said this last night on Twitter that there's the word on the street is, Tomlin has a TV deal in his back pocket. Well, let me tell you something. As somebody who produced, I mean, we've all been witness to Tomlin in a press conference. I did the podcast flying coach, Tomlin and Raheem Morris were guests with McVeigh and Peter Shreger back in 2021. There is no better quote in the world. And Tomlin would be the best broadcaster we have. They should double his salary compared to Tom Brady's because he would be immediately the best color guy booth analyst, whatever you want to do, whether he's in the studio, he would be incredible. There's no where honestly the best outcome for us is probably that Mike Tomlin does a year immediately Sean Payton, except actually says things like Sean Payton where he wouldn't really break stuff down. Tomlin in the booth, Tomlin in the studio would be great and then he can kind of just pick his litter of the jobs, whatever job he wants. But I mean, it's such a big, I mean, it's hard to capture 19 years. I mean, it's 20. It's a couple of decades. And I think, frankly, when we start to look forward at other jobs where he might go next, I think maybe we can get into some of the flaws. But I agree with Craig that I think it's the right move to start with. Tomlin was awesome. And Tomlin was one of the towering figures. I feel like in my adult life or my growing up, loving football. Tomlin was hired in what 2007, I think 2007, like he has been there for so long. He's like an institution. You know what it means? Like that line from the Grand Poo de Pesto Tell. It's like, why do you want to work here? It's like it's an institution. He was like larger than life, man. And it's like an era just ended. Like this Steelers Raven's rivalry that John Harbohl leaving the Ravens, Tomlin leaving the Steelers, like an era is over. And frankly, that was the best rivalry of Mike of me growing up. I mean, the Steelers Ravens can't go through all of it. Like there was that game where the Steelers were hitting Willis McGay. The Steelers hit Willis McGay. He's so hard and the Ravens and Steelers hit each other so hard. They changed all the rules and football, how you can tackle people. Because of how Mike Tomlin and the Ravens decided to play football. And so the mark is incredible. I mean, Tomlin's going to finish. He finishes with exactly as many wins in the history as Chuck Null, which is incredible. And he did it in 30 less games. It's amazing. And again, the 19 years without a losing grip. I know everyone knows this, but like when you actually pause and think about that, think about the jets. Like think about some of the teams that are yearning to have a fucking nine and eight season. Anything can happen. No ball of check had three or four losing records in his career. Tom Brady leaves. They collapse. Tom Brady, you know, it's like things happen. The fact that Tomlin, no matter what through aging old sack of potatoes, Ben Rothisberger all the way through the muck of the last five years, it grind out nine, 10, eight, nine, 10 win seasons is remarkable. Yeah, it's hard to be competitive in the NFL, honestly. It is a huge accomplishment to be in the mix at least every year. He was just so cool, man. Like the quotes, like everything, the vibe, like I kind of miss him already. Like I think I don't think there's going to be a bell and check period where there's just like this immediate fall from grace. Like we will get to tell our kids about like, no, no, no, this guy's nothing like Mike Tomlin though. So it's I'm sad. And like it's weird though, because I don't know, we could talk about next, but before that, I don't know, DK, I mean, DK, you went through this with Pete Carroll too. And like I do think that is kind of what happened though, too, where you look at Bill Bell, a chicken, New England, you look at Pete Carroll and Seattle, you look at John Harboh with the Ravens, which just happened. You see this through line of, it's just time for change, like 20 years. He's a long time in any business in any industry. 20 years is, it's closer to a marriage at some point than it is to a business relationship after two decades. I think you do see some through lines. I think the, the bellichick not being able to replace Brady, Ben Rathasburg is not Tom Brady, but the Steelers didn't really, they were not able to replace Ben Rathasburger. I don't want to reduce it down to that, but I do think it's half is not really taking off in seriously. Like they could have took a first round quarterback, put him behind Ben Rathasburger. They took Mason Rudolph who sucked. Like they replaced Rathasburg with Kenny Pickett, who you could scour the entire country for quarterback. And they went with the guy who already worked in the building at the University of Pittsburgh, which is like kind of wild that that's they're like, no, he's already here. He works here. That's the Kenny Pickett, they was insane. Rogers. I think that part, but also I think the Pete Carroll thing is right there too. And we're going to have to get into that when we talk about what you want to do with Mike Tom and going forward. But I think the same way Pete Carroll just went to the Raiders and tried to implement this defense that frankly was 10 years old. We can get into it. But like, you know, Tom and he didn't want to change. And I think that's part of what makes him awesome and made Mike Tom and Mike Tom and made him cool, made him really successful. I think if Mike Tom and wanted to change, probably would have had a losing season. But also I think that when it comes down to it, the Steelers were always competing for the playoffs, but the Steelers for 10 years just really they weren't competing for Super Ball. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you can look at the coordinators are interesting. The coach office says a big say in that that the quarterback situation has been bad since Ben left. If you look at the coordinators for the Steelers, basically since like 2018, the offensive and defensive coordinators, none of them go on to coach anywhere else. Yeah, where are they? Dude, let's like, where's Matt Canada to him? Matt Canada never coached again after the Steelers. Keith Butler, the defensive coordinator never coached again after the Steelers. Offensive coordinator Todd Haley, who they had during a large stretch of the teens, coach the Browns for one year after that and then went to high school. And I bet Tara Austin, the defensive coordinator right now, I don't think he's going to be back and I bet you he is not a defensive coordinator next year on an NFL team. So the coordinators at the Steelers have hired over the last five to seven years. And I've been very bad and a lot of that falls on Tom Lee. So well, this is the hard part of the conversation, which is I think getting into like, what kind of candidate is Tom Lee and everything? The reality is that the Steelers did not like my Tom Lee's defense is like, we're not built to beat modern offenses and the Steelers have just decided to not run modern offenses and not do modern defenses. Like, I was looking at my notes of what I wrote down as Steelers before the season began. The thing I wrote down is the Steelers are an outdated organization with a head coach running an outdated defense and a quarterback running an outdated offense and air Rogers. Can anyone evolve before this blows up? And the reality is that the Steelers would not scoring a touchdown on offense and the defense can't stop the Texans running game, which I mean, the Texans blew them out 30 to six. But the reality is the it was 10 six and the fourth, but yeah, seven to six, entering the fourth. I the thing I would go to a Tom Tom and I think in a nutshell, where you're like, the offense is obvious, right? It's like Aaron Rogers is old. Ben Rothisberg was old. They should have moved on. Can he pick it was bad? That part, everyone gets the offenses of interreble people don't need to explain, explain that part. I think what happened to Tom Blin on defense to me is summarized by Julian Edelman of all people who I wrote this down last year, last January, Julian Edelman was talking about this and he was talking about how easy it is to manipulate the Steelers defense and how much they would do it in New England. And he was talking about little things like putting a slot receiver on a linebacker, how much easier it was. And Julian Edelman said, and this is quoting him, the Steelers did what they did. He knew exactly what they were doing every time and they still do what they do. They still do the same goddamn shit that they did when I was playing Tomman's defense. He said that last year, Julian Edelman said that last year about something games from 2019. And like that is what it's about. His football has changed a lot in the last five or six years. And Tomman decided to just not adapt. And the through line of that is from seven years of playoff exhibits. I think the last seven playoff games that Steelers had, they were down by twenty one points at some point during the game. Not only that. Which is insane. So they've had six straight one and done basically in the playoffs. And in those, all in all six of those losses, they never, they've trailed on every single snap in the second half in all six of those. And down by twenty one points in all six of those games. And so you see the through line of, they're not competing with the cutting edge offenses. And you see that even this season where it's like Jamar Chauflaco gets traded to Bengals. He's been there like five or six days. And then Jamar chase gets twenty three targets on Thursday football and the twenty third target of the game is wide open. It's funny because the style that you're talking about, high fits with Tomman is like how they lost last night because the Texans basically beat the Steelers doing what the Steelers in Mike Tomman think that they're good at. Right. Like the Texans are actually like the least disguised defense in the NFL because they have the talent. They just like line up man to man. They're like, let's go. You versus me. We'll win. I got to go to the Red Dead because their defense is awesome was stingly and last that I'm and I will I understand and Hunter and all these guys. And the Steelers are kind of still trying to do that but they no longer have the steel curtain. They no longer have these players in the best personnel in the league. And that's why they get crushed half these I mean they give a big plays left and right. Christian Kirk had three forty yard catches last night. They couldn't stop the run against a terrible not a not good rushing offense. Like there's glaring issues on the defense. And TK now this is what happened. Pete Carroll to the other two where the plan is how your plan is. We're going to outplay you because our players are better and then you're coaching up players but you're not actually coaching players to deceive or disguise right. It's very similar to Pete Carroll. I mean it is it's the exact same conversation we had in Seattle. It's like he's not adapting. He's just doing the same old thing that he's been doing for the last whatever years. And honestly like from from both Pete Carroll's point of view Mike Thomas point of view. I do think it is a it's a thin line between. Moving on the things that are actually important in football and but also at the same time being able to like adapt year in and year out. So basically like I think Pete Carroll's whole philosophy and I remember reading in his book I think he said this in his book when forever. He was talking to Tom Osborne who was like the great coach at Nebraska back in the day and there's a quote in there about how Osborne's like look the media and you know the fans and everybody they're going to try and get you to change that year in and year out and try and do the newest thing and try and change Bob of lies like but at the end of the day like you have to adhere to what you believe it gives you the best chance to win games every year every week. And I think that was like with both Pete Carroll and Mike Tom when it was always just like look run the ball, play good defense, don't turn the ball over. These are the oldest things in football and they're still true. It just is a matter of fact that you have to get the best players to you have to get very good players in order to win in the NFL consistently. I think that the Steelers had the thing where they had pretty good players across the board for a long time, but then attrition happens. Some of the hires on offense and defense probably didn't really work out that well. And that's just kind of like how it went. But it was the most expensive defense in the NFL and they were gashed by the Houston Texans for 164 yards, which is three yards off the most rushing into the head all year. So I think at the end of the day I can see where guys like Tom went and some of the older school coaches come from in terms of like this is what we believe in. This is the best way to win ultimately at the end of the day. This is a proven championship formula. That's what Pete Carroll, you always say. But at the same time, you really do need to have some ability to adapt to the trends of the day and figure out how to best. And that's like right now you see all the new coaches are scheme Lord type guys that can kind of adapt on the fly to what's like working and what's not working. I mean, look at McVeigh. McVeigh I think right now is kind of the gold standard. You mean the second longest tenured coach in the NFL 39 year old Sean McVeigh. But like when you think of the Sean McVeigh offense, what is it? Because it's been like three or four different things since he got hired. And that I think is what makes him so great. And that's why at the end of the day again, I just kind of think you have to be able to while you have the same core philosophies. And I think McVeigh still has this where he's like, you know, play good defense to defend the run, run the ball, all that stuff. Kind of old school vibes. But McVeigh has a little bit of Tomlin in him. Totally. McVeigh has that like, he's a great quote motivator of men mentality to him blended with the guru play collar. He's just a hired really young. Yes, hired really young. Like he has that grittiness to him where he, I mean, that's why he's the best coach in the league. And he would be my first pick because I believe he is Mike Tomlin and Kyle Shanahan mixed into one. And, you know, there's this video game called Ghost of Tsushima, which was really cool. It's kind of like red dead redemption, but it's like you're a samurai in Japan. And it's, I sort of going somewhere with this, but basically this guy is a samurai and the Mongolians invade Japan and they have guns. And so the samurai way of fighting just to get slaughtered. Like because the samurai, there's this coat, but there's this, they cannot compete with fucking cannons and guns and everything. And so there's this one samurai left who basically decides that he needs to break the samurai code and like, he invents being an ninja, like sneaking up and killing them, which is considered like crazy dishonorable. So there's this giant fight in Japan of just like, can we fight this way? Do we lose who we are? Would we rather lose and be who we are than do something we don't respect and maybe win? And that's like the game. And so the part of the game is you have to decide how you play. Do you want to fight them straight up and it's fucking hard or like, and you know, respect the code? Or do you want to be an engine sneak up and stab people? You're not really, and like you can fight a win, but it's kind of dishonorable. And there's no like victory. It's just you just make a decision of how you want to play. And I kept thinking of that when I think about Tomlin because like honestly, it's, it's not just that X is an O scheme thing. It's philosophical. And I think for someone who cares as much about football for my Tomlin, it's like borderline moral of like, this is how you play football. This is how I coach players. Like we're going to line up and execute. I need to the last of a dying breed and like Pete Carroll and all these guys are like all like the idea of you disguise stuff and everything that's going on modern defense. That's things that happen, but that's not who they are. They're core. They're coaches. They're educators. They're telling people how to execute fundamentals. And I think these guys are getting wiped out. Yeah. It's hard to, it's Craig, you said it. I think a couple of weeks ago it's like hard to make a second show, you know, like a second hit. It, I mean, they spend the 10, 15, 20 years learning a defense inside it out and being able to teach it and all the little nuances and intricacies that go into a defense. And then you're like, do I wait, I got to fucking change this off season and learn some new defense. I know that there's, you know, it's a lot more complicated than that. It's not so simple. But it is, it is just like it's very few people can kind of adjust on the fly. The other thing I want to throw out here is this is something John Schneider said would P Carol was fired or they decided to part ways or whatever. And Schneider said basically Marty shot Hiver back in the day told him that coaches should be in a job more than 10 years because just the message starts to get stale. Yeah. You know, you're doing the kind of the same thing every year. Like you just have to have some new stuff, new ideas, a new voice, new messaging, some freshness, some freshness to it. And I think that's like also part of this. Like you just don't see coaches last that long because ultimately stuff starts to get kind of stale. I feel like that's why Harbaugh went. I don't think Thomas message was stale. I think it was the exes and I was in the refusal to have an offense that looked anything resembling something from 2015. Like I think the most underdiscussed part of the Steelers Rogers Talmud thing was that Aaron Ojj beat Mike Talmud in the Super Bowl. Which we don't talk about enough is like they're both kind of wanted it to be 2010-2011 again. And they, you know, that's when they peaked and it's, you know, it's, you like music from like, you know, probably whenever, you know, people in their teens and you like what you like. And like honestly, the kind of football that they're like, that's my kind of football is from when they were on top. And it was a long time ago and they didn't want to change. But I want to, I want to get to what Talmud happens next, the Steelers do next, but I want to ask Craig the question before we move on here, which is, I want to ask you about purgatory and football purgatory. Because implicit in this whole thing of, you know, look, it's simple. The argument against Talmud is, you know, again, or sorry, you want to keep him because Mike Talmud never had a losing season. I understand why you would want to fire Talmud or Talmud might want to go because I don't know if you guys know this. The last time the Steelers want to play off game, Barack Obama was president. Wild. There's a long time ago. Tiktok was not available in America when the last time Tomlin had a, like, a playoff win. So what was this? What you're saying? So it was like in 2017, January 2017, but Trump had done. He's been inaugurated the first time when the Steelers want to play off game. But you have made the playoffs. You've been competitive. You've never had a losing season. So I understand Craig that has frustrated and be in purgatory. You want to move on. But I want to give you a little bit of warning from someone who is a Giants fan. You're in purgatory. I'm in hell. I've been in hell. DK jokes, but it's not a joke. I have basically never been rooting for the Giants to win games in December of the entire time he's known me because I want the Giants. The Giants have competed for the number one pick six times in the last eight years. They have not been competitive. The one year they made the playoffs was maybe the worst thing that's happened to them in the last eight years. And so I guess my question is to do you really want to be out here? Like do you have any idea like it's in theory? It's nice to be like when you're like man to be nice to in soupables. I feel like you're just looking up. Perkish like I want at a purgatory because I'll get to heaven. And my question for you is, are you actually prepared for the potential of the Steelers going to flip ball hell? First of all, the Giants have more playoff wins than the Steelers doing the last 10 years. So I don't know what that tells me. But I feel like people who are currently fans of bad teams like yourself will not accept me being like, yeah, it might be fun to like look for a new quarterback and have a have a top 10 pick and and care about the offseason because as a Steelers fan, usually the offseason is just nothing. It's a great. I guess we're going to run it back with Kenny Pickett or Mason Rudolph. Tom was not going anywhere. Probably going to win nine games this year. We have the 23rd pick in the draft. What are we going to do? So naively, I am excited to like, I mean, I think we probably have the 23rd pick in draft this year. But I'm like naively. I'm kind of excited to be like, what can we do? Can we hire it at the next time? When can we find a 38 year old coach who's awesome or an offensive mind that's different? And I can see an offense be good for the first time in seven years. This is why I asked because DK, how do we break it? Like it's like the whole meme of how do we tell them? Everyone's been trying to do it for 20 years and no one's found them. There's like one every three years and you're going to get one of the ones that probably isn't. And it's the delkery thing of the don't leave the woman of your dreams. Like you don't want to be out here. Like you want to be doing dates with charcoal ice cream. Like you don't want to be out here, man. I agree with you. But like it also feels as though this is a natural. It is. This is the natural next step for the Steelers. And you got to trust them again. Three coaches since the moon landing, all of them were good. So I guess I'd have to trust them to find the fourth. Craig, what during the so and we'll get to the game game. But during the loss last night, basically like as you knew, it was over. The life was slowly draining out of the Steelers chances in that game. Yeah. What was what was the emotion like? Because when I when we were fine, I know that's what this is what I'm getting at. Basically like you've been in purgatory for so long. I don't even you just don't it's like why what's the difference between rebuilding and what you have now? I know. I feel like I can't complain because it's like you didn't even really care when they lost. Cause you knew that was going to happen. Like look, I can't complain against a Jets fan. That's fair. I understand that or a Giants fan or a Browns fan or whatever. However, the Steelers are the weirdest, most frustrating good team the last 10 years. And it's like, I think you laid out literally the entire story of the season in September. You laid out exactly what was going to happen. You're like, they're going to go nine and eight. They're going to get their asses kicked in the first round. That's like not even a crazy prediction. Cause they do that every year. I know. But it was just funny how accurate it was. And I mean, even to the point of week by week, oh, they looked good last week against the Lions. They're going to lose this week against the Browns. Oh, they looked bad against the Browns. They're going to beat the Ravens. Oh, they beat the Ravens. They're going to lose the Texas. Like it is how it works and it's who the Steelers are. So like, yeah, I'm excited to move on from that. But I understand I'm also I don't want to become the Jets. So DK nailed it right there and I something that so my fiance Jackie's also a Steelers fan. And we watched the Steelers game last night. Shut up and you need DC. And we watched it at a bar. And the whole week, I was like, how do you feel about the game? How do you feel about the game last two weeks? The Ravens, she was just kind of like, yeah, I was kind of like, that's weird. And I realized, but it's exactly what Craig said where they lost and she was upset. Like she's room for the team, but she's like, this is always how it was going to go. And I think you nailed the DK that like, that's actually how a lot of Steelers fans feel. Like I'm in Pittsburgh like all the like, they're all like fans shouldn't feel so met after a playoff loss. Like they shouldn't they've they actually have seen so many wanted to do. And they don't feel anything in more more. That's actually a pretty good bar. Like I had friends texting me like, Hey man, sorry about the loss. And I'm like doing like that. I'm totally fine. And they probably think I'm coping and like hiding my wounds. And I'm like, no, no, this is just how it is. I'm tickled that they made the playoffs. They didn't even. And honestly, that is probably the best encapsulation of what? Why might tell me to go is like what's the saying of all my Tom and sayings? The standard is the standard. And the Steelers standards have lowered because I think Steelers fans don't expect to make a conference championship game anymore. They expect to maybe maybe you got a playoff win, but they kind of expect to just lose a playoff game, which the standard got lowered. And it's like, it's not even that they make the playoffs. It's that they make the playoffs in the dumbest way possible. It's like they win in the most ridiculous, grind out, unearned half of it is lucky. Like, well, CJ stride in three turnovers last night and they still lost by 25. Like it's I mean, that's that's incredible. I so with that said though, I want to I'm spinning it forward. I think our feelings on how Tom and this is a coach will come out very quickly. Because here's why. So Tom and he was not fire. He's stepping down and look, whether that's saving face and they wanted to move on from Tom and but out of his factor. Classy Steelers move. Yeah, it is. Classy Steelers move. Now he's still under contract. So we could go to media, whatever. Let's say for a second, forget the contract. Just forget that that's a thing for a moment. And let's say Tom and just can go work for an a once a coach. The teams who need a coach, I will read the nine and I'm curious. Decal started. The which of these teams do you think should be the most interested in my Tom and going through the the Steelers, the Ravens, which would be the owner. Did you see Steve Peshotti, the owner of the Ravens? Got told about this during his press conference. Like it happened during it. And he was like, holy shit. He was like, did somebody like whisper in his ear like the bush meme? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, the reporter asked him. He's like, really? Is that real? He's like, holy shit. And they're like, would you hire Mike? And he was like, I love Mike. He's like, man, only the Steelers hire John. Just do a little white swap. Just like a Yankee swap. But yeah, so the Steelers need a coach. Obviously the Ravens are two, the Giants, the Raiders, the Titans, the Falcons, the Dolphins, the Cardinals and then the Browns, which is not happening. So DK of those nine, which team do you think should be most interested in Mike Dahlman? All of them. I think, yeah, I was going to say, well, actually quite a few of them, because he is like Craig Gladeau, perfectly a floor razor, a stabilizer, an adult in the room type of coach. Of course, I said that same thing about P Carol. And P Carol 73 years old. 70s. Mike Dahlman's 53, Matt Lester was 46. Sure. But P Carol has a lot of energy. I don't think that the reason he didn't win in Las Vegas is because he doesn't have enough energy or whatever. It's just like his, it's the same stuff we talk about. His ideas are the exact same as they were 20 years ago. I think Tomlin's kind of having the same issue. So I don't really think the age is a big variable. That being said, I still see teams like the Giants, Raiders, Titans, maybe the Cardinals, maybe the Browns. I mean, all those franchises being interested in a guy like Tomlin, who is going to, he's not going to the Browns. I think no, I think the Giants have to do this. I think the Giants have to do it. The mayor of family, do you imagine? Oh my god. Rudy Merra. Rudy Merra, the actress, the, of course. Well, she's house of cards in them was that girl, the dragon tattoo. She's Rudy Merra because she's literally a car. The cards was Kate Merra, but yeah, she's sorry, whatever. It's a social network was Rudy Merra, dragon tattoo. Yeah, her name is literally Rooney Merra, Steelers giant. Yes, the points that a family that owns the Steelers and the family that owns the Giants are literally like they're married. And they are also by the standards of the NFL closer than other families probably. It's like an old like aristocratic. Hi, if you get Jackie, you're kind of the modern version of that. Right. There you go. There you go. There we were, Rudy Merra, Hi Fits. But I'm just saying, I kind of think the Giants are going to fall on over themselves to get Tomlin. I said when Harbaugh and more than Harbaugh. Probably just because I got, do you know my, our coat dude? Yeah, I kind of do. I kind of do. I would love to explain about the things right now. I just think Harbaugh would go to Miami probably before the Giants. I think the Giants are a good destination. I think Tomlin might want with the Giants would crave to have a Mike Tomlin. To have a guy that be there for like a long time. I don't know what Tomlin wants. I won't pretend he might want to go to the media and come back. But if I was Tomlin, I would take a year off, man. Just chill. I know. Just relax. Just say you're on vacation. 53 years old. Taking your off, chill, do some TV, make a bunch of money. Here's the argument against that. I mean, again, he probably, I think it looked, line in the media, deal up. I don't think that means anything other than obviously he would take a huge check to do it. I don't think that means he won't coach. I think the question becomes, where is he most fit to succeed? And I think he has to have a quarterback. Obviously everyone does. But he's not going to develop one. And frankly, the people he's hired at offensive coordinator are like pathetic. Like, his vision of offense, like he did well when he Rothisburg was handed to him. But like Jackson started on the Giants. I think of the Raiders if you believe in Fernando Mendoza, like KM Ward on the Titans. I think those situations he could make work. I don't like get a little, I mean, the Browns obviously should do that, but he would do that. But I mean, ironically, the Ravens would be really funny. But I don't know. There are a lot of unusually good quarterback options. Lamar Jackson, who is a three time MVP, theoretically still in his prime, is available. I'm not saying the Ravens would go for it. No, but the, well, that's the thing is so weird. So here's my thing though. He's under contract. So should the Giants, like I'm biased, DK, would you, do you think the Giants should give a first round pick for Mike Tomman? No. I don't think so either, especially with the one they have. Now I think Sean Payton ended up getting traded for two seconds. Do you think the Giants to trade two second on picks for Mike Tomman? Wait, you're saying he's under contract for one more year? With the Steelers. So that's the thing. That's the point. He can't coach this year without being a trade without a trade. Yes, he has to get traded to coach. Basically by March, they would have to extend him to pick up the 2027. And obviously that's not happening. So I think he's just under contract for one more year. But he's right. If he doesn't do, if he does the media thing, they still have a face. Did you already see that? Like that's been reported that they're not going to let him coach somewhere else? No, they're not. Absolutely. This is the same exact thing that haven't p-carol. They said we're mutually parting ways. In fact, when p-carol was fired, well, he, I say when he was, when they mutually came to an agreement that he's not going to be the head coach anymore, he was actually, they described that he was going into a different role in the team. And then they just locked him out. Like he just never came back. You know what I mean? Like he was technically supposed to be a part of the franchise. Hey, Jerry, they put him in the fake, Ocean's 11 box. So my point is I don't, maybe there's going to force the trader, like I just think it's silly to talk about a trade. He could go, I think he could work somewhere else next year. No, but I'm saying if the, it's very much on the table because this is, yes, it could be like the sea ox where they just let him go. But also, I think the difference is I don't know if people necessarily were going to trade for p-carol because again, he would be the oldest coach in NFL history. My Talmud's 53, it would be more like a Sean Payton situation where it's forgotten, but Sean Payton was traded to the Broncos. Like the Saints got second round picks for Sean Payton. So, but do you think the Steelers could basically just break the contract and allow him to go or do you think they would require a trade? I don't know. But that's the thing is it, I think it's one of those, I think it's, I think it's it could absolutely be what DK is saying where the Steelers had a respect let it happen. The flip side is they could also maybe say we're go, and this is, I think frankly probably the most likely option, maybe they take a conditional seventh or just they make it a trade or just a wink, wink, but the idea that they're not letting go to Baltimore. Like I think the same way that coaches don't like to trade players in the division. Do you think they're going to let Mike Talmud coach the Ravens? And so part of me is like they probably won't just let him go free. They'll probably be like, if the Giants, maybe they let him walk and they just like let it happen and it's like a handshake deal. Right. Not in writing, but I don't think they're going to just blindly let him out of the deal and then let him scour the market. And just for the off chance that he went to Baltimore, I don't think he would do that. But no, I mean, maybe I'm too naive, but I don't, I don't think he would go to Baltimore. I don't think he would either. I think he's, but also I don't know. So it could be one of the things, but that's the thing. Giants and Raiders, Giants and Raiders make the most sense to do. If the Giants get higher without giving up a pick, I have no problem with that. And even if the Giants had to give up a second round pick, I don't think any second round player is worth not having my Tom one. I know that it's weird. I don't, frankly, the beggars can't be choosers. And I would love a competent coach like John Arbor and Mike Tomman falls on all because I can't really think of a better option. Where do you guys think now that the Steelers rank among the top choices for a coach? That's a good question because I think. I think we always talk about that. The big thing is quarterback. I think quarterback is still number one priority. And then Harmony between front office, GM is a close second in terms of if you really have your pick of the litter in terms of where you want to go as a coach, you want to have, you want to be basically going to a place where the coach, where the ownership is not going to be like fucking with you. You know what I mean? Or meddling in roster stuff, same with GM, GM, like who has power in this. So I think those are the two big things. The Steelers, I assume, will not be giving a new head coach power over the roster. Do you think that's right, Craig? I don't know. To me, it's like the clear top option is Baltimore. You have a two time three time MVP. Oh, you win two time. Lamar Jackson. I think the giants are second. I think the Raiders are probably third if you have the first overall pick. And then I think it's the Steelers. I guess then you have a conversation about like how good you think Cam Ward is. I think the Steelers are above the Cardinals, above the dolphins. I probably would say they're above the Falcons. And I think they're right there. The Steelers have some good pieces. They have organizational stability. They have organizational stability. They are the Stair, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the legacy of it all. They are like good young pieces that you can build around guys like, you know, their center of the Zach Frazier is really good. The right tackle is good. Derek Harman's good. Joey Porter's had a great year. Like there are pieces and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, they literally have, are they the most dire and quarterback situation in the NFL right now? It's high up there because you got Rodgers. You got nothing behind them. They don't have a draft pick to go get a quarterback and they don't, you know, and then I mean, you know, the quarterbacks, you know, you could trade for, not gonna trade for Tua. I don't think the Steelers are going to trade for Kyler. At least I don't think they would have in a Tom- Like they're looking at a like a gap year. We're looking at like a Mac Jones, a Kurt Cousins or, you know, yeah, Kurt Cousins if it gets cut, like maybe Kurt Cousins, Gino Smith, Joe Flacco. It's not a great market for quarterback. I think the Steelers, the problem with the Steelers is obviously the quarterback. And then frankly, the issue is followed up by Tom-lin. You don't want to be the guy to follow the guy and like, that's not ideal. The best, actually a guy who's so good in a press conference, like Mike Tom-lin, wherever he goes next, his like first meeting with the team, everyone's going to be running through a wall for him and fall. And the Steelers building and be like, all right, I know that guy was the coolest guy you've ever seen in your life for 20 years, but listen to me now. Yeah, it's like a stand up comic if the opener went after or the opening act for the band went after the band. It's like, I mentioned the Heim sisters went after Taylor Swift. Like it doesn't matter. Good. You wear your not her. And the like outside of like the Niners transitioning from like, you know, Bill Walsh to, you know, George Cypher taking over and you just get a dynasty. The best transition you can ask for is like, what happened, Mike Rapele, where you take over the Patriots and you were there. You won rings as a player. You like you, the identity. You have Drake Maes an incredible quarterback. You have experience, but you didn't actually have to follow Bella check. You got to hire Gerard May, you got to follow Gerard Mayo. Like that's the best way. I don't, the pressure of firing Tom-lin is huge. None of that takes over like the legacy of being like Chuck Dull, Bill Cower, Mike Talman and you like overrides that when they offer you the job of the phone. Like they're like humans too. Like any coach candidate, your mind goes blank. You're going to like holy crap. I could be the head coach of the Steelers, but that is most of the lure. Because if you took that out of it, it's not one of the better jobs. It's, it's a better job because the lure of being the Steelers coach and like, knowing that they're not, you're not going to be a one and done. The Steelers are not going to fire a coach or a year or two. Like they're going to try to give you runway, but it's a hard place to succeed. Like like like you take the Steelers this out of it. I think the Giants are a better job. Like I think the Titans are better job. I think that the guys who have talented quarterbacks have to be better spots. I think that's probably right. Who do you like? Do you have a wish list yet? Have you got it? I automatically shift towards like offensive minds just because of what the Steelers have been rolling out for the last however many years. So like, I don't know. Shifter just, just tweeted that the last four head coaches that the Steelers have hired were 38 or younger. Well, yeah, that's the time. It's going to be weird. The Steelers, the idea of the Steelers bringing in a coach older than Mike Tomlin, like Kurt Signetti, the coach of Indiana. Yes, where was, where was he born? Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. But I'm like, he's 64 years old. Yeah, it feels kind of weird to bring in him to start the new era of the Steelers. He's 11 years old and Mike Tomlin. You people, somebody like Mike McDaniel, because of their offensive play calling ability, like sounds attractive to me. I don't know if I want him to be the leader of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't think that's a weird follow up to Mike Tomlin. That's like a music festival. I went to this festival once and we weren't there to see an EDM act. But the guy before the EDM act was like Sturdle Simpson, like the country singer. Yeah. And like the crowds mixed and it was like weird and like, that's Tomlin and Mike McDaniel. It's like you can't show the same group of people those two guys back to back. Like there is, to me, there is no Liam Cohen. There is no Ben Johnson this year. So I can't tell if I'm leaning towards like, maybe they try to get a quote, unquote, culture guy and then hire a good coordinator, whoever that is. What? Oh, let me spin this on you. Let me ask the same question as whether the giant should hire Mike Tomlin. Because let me ask you guys this. Is it smart or dumb to look at the giants and say, of course I want my Tomlin. Like this is easy to overthink it. And then part of me is like, we get competent. But like, I mean, start to go through the actual resume or Tomlin. And you're like, okay, let me see here. Ben Glixman who here at the ringer who is a huge Thursday. And he wrote a column about Tomlin, like in December. The studios are 0 4 and 1 and their last five games against opponents. We're really that were eight games below 500. Eight games below 500. They're out there. Winless in the last five games, which is an NFL record. Steuers 1 6 and 1 and their last six eight games in Cleveland. With the Browns quarterbacks or Tarot Taylor, Baker, Mayfield, Jacobi, Reset, Dorian Thompson, Robinson, James Winston, and Schitter Sanders. Like, you can use go through all these Tomlin things. Again, they didn't want to play off games since Barack Obama was president. Like you go through all this. And I have a quarter like Jackson Dart is the guy. And Mike Tomlin is hired Matt Canada and like, like basically punted on modern passing games. And should the giants actually hire a Mike McDaniel who clearly maximized Tua and I know Mike, but part of me is like a little worried that Mike McDaniel will wilt under the pressure and wilt under the lights in the New York Post is going to make fun of him. And like that will be effect him. And whereas Tomlin is going to be like instantly respected and content. It'll be fun. But part of me is also like, is it obviously better to get an offensive guy for Jackson Dart and like, is it weird to like just basically Steuers leftovers is rude, but is it weird to basically say the game has passed this guy by he's been there too long, but we'll take him because we have no interest in the future of the game. Like, isn't that a weird thing to kind of invite for the future you team? How much do you trust that the giants for an office? Zero. Okay. I was going to say like, I think bringing in Tomlin would easily handle New York. Would immediately come in and motivate everybody in the team. The floor would be raised immediately. But Joe Shane and the and the Mara's would have to like convince Tomlin or bring in the guy who they think is the right play collar. Because you can't trust Tomlin to do that. And how would that relationship work? Who do you trust to win that argument? Who gets to say this is our coordinator? It's the Cereani Eagles thing. Like, who is the one saying, all right, yeah, we're actually going to go get the guy who was with Liam Cohen and Jackson. Well, this year he's going to come in and be our play collar. Do you like can Shane and the Mara's do that if Tomlin's the head coach? I don't think you could pitch him on that and get he would get the job. I think that he would, I mean, Tomlin, I mean, Ticket, what do you think, Ticket? I mean, I don't know. I'm my lean and this is like kind of going in the other direction on a tangent. But my lean is he's just not going to coach this year. So it's kind of moved. But if he really is motivated to coach this year, he might not have as much leverage on getting full control over everything, you know what I mean? Or to get full control, he would have to go to a worse situation. Right. Exactly. That's what that's kind of that's what I'm saying. Like like the Cardinals might be like, we'll give you anything you want. You can own Phoenix. And he's like, I don't want to work for the car. And it's weird. Like the Falcons have a consulting firm. They just hire you like the Falcons have a consultant firm. They just hired, but like they also just hired Matt Ryan as the president of football ops, Matt Ryan is obviously going to be younger than my Tom. And so he's going to be in control. The Titans have this guy Chad Brinker who like for whatever reason, just as like runs that team, which is a whole other thing. But I don't know. I don't and again, you're right. Maybe DK, you're right. The Tom and isn't going to coach this year. I mean, in that case, I mean, if Tom and I coach this year and the giants don't get John Harboh, then I'm suddenly like, if John Harboh, like who that one's like, there's nine openings. And all these teams are firing coaches. And you're like, if Tom, it doesn't coach, then you're like, so the best candidates are what John Harboh, Kevin's Defansky and Mike McDaniel and then six of the jobs. Jesse Menter, Kraschula, Jeff Haffley, some of these younger defensive guys. It's the short version is all the offensive coaches that just got head coaching jobs. This is the wave of defensive coordinators that caught up on offense. And now they get to interview for jobs and then which one of these those three names are who I think the Steelers are going to look at. Because Shula's 39, Menter, I believe, is 42. So like younger guys, Haffley's 40, what is Haffley? He's like, he's a whole lot of like four and did he camp in Neil and Jacksonville? I think the Chris Shula, I got to say, I don't, this doesn't happen to me very much, but I read it. A coaching interview thing in my jaw dropped. Chris Shula interviewed for the Miami Dolphins job, which is incredible because he's grandfather, you know, his grandfather's Don Shula. Yeah. And like, like, like, the winning coach and the Steelers are going to like that. I know the pedigree like, yeah, you look at what the Rams did. The name, the name power. I know the you, you could look at it. So it's like the Rams, then most of the panthers and the playoffs, the Rams defense of what Kraschula's done with the Rams defense where they are so out of cornerback count, they're playing a manual forbs who was like released by Washington. The Washington released the first round pick because it was such a bad choice. Cause he's so small. He's like the smallest player. He's probably the last sub 170 pound defensive player. We might see drafted at his frame. We called him flat Stanley. He's like playing for the Rams and he's getting something out of him. This is what they do. Yeah. And they've got, they've done this for a little bit here where they find these random guys. They've been really good at integrating the draft into like the roster and utilizing those guys in the right, the right ways. He's exactly what you want from the top down in terms of like marrying the scouting process with getting these guys on the field. It's, it's been really incredible. Chris Shula is also just like Sean McVeigh's buddy. Like they went to college together. They've been friends since like 2004. So it's like a little bit of a, like man, McVeigh just hired his friend and it's going really well right now. And I, you know, he's been on the Rams for like seven, eight years now. Chris Shula. They're out of offensive guys that show McVeigh knows. And that we're just doing defensive guys to show McVeigh knows. He's literally anyone. Sean McVeigh knows. Craig, are you getting any calls? Should I text Sean and be like, Hey, where's Chris going? Yeah, yeah, you should text him when he takes a different job and be like, Hey, I heard you hiring your friends. Can I be that's a coordinator? Yeah. We're actually going to say, Hey, interviewing for the Steelers head coach job. Can I say that I'm Sean McVeigh's friend? That's what you got to do. Do you think Tom and we'll do a podcast with the ringer? That is sweet. They'd be funny if we had this fucking whole conversation and then like he just does a show in F. Looks. I mean, it's not possible. I have no insider information on that. He's been on a ringer pod before. Anything else on Tom and before we move on. I'm just excited for Craig. New arrow. Aroha, a brother. Yeah, Mike Tomman. Thank you for your service. While this was all happening, the Eagles fired Kevin Petulo. They're off its coordinator, which is so funny that just news dumping. They were like, Tom is out like, let's let everyone out. I respect it. Half of Pennsylvania's distracted like move, move, move. Throught all the shit. Hurry. Yeah, we knew this was going to we knew this was coming. It was nothing to say like the Eagles are an abomination and Nick Sionney should not be allowed to hire his coordinators. He's a baseball manager and they should just tell him who is on his staff and then he's charged of lives. So quickly, how attractive is the Eagles job for a coordinator position? Let's say AJ Browns may be gone. The offensive line is in a different situation. You have the say, Juan, who's still at the end of his prime, you have Jalen Hertz, who's this kind of quagmire situation. Are the would you say right now the Eagles are the top coordinator landing spot for any team in the NFL, for any coach in the NFL? I don't know about top, but it's up there. I mean, look at what Kelly Moore did. I mean, the last two guys who had the job before Kevin Patoolo got a coaching job. I think it is. Super bowl. Yeah. So part of me, especially look at the defense. Like frankly, the bar is pretty low to succeed there. You have literally like, Jalen Hertz is obviously the limit. Sorry, Eagles fans, but Hertz is the limiting factor in terms of what you could run and execute. Yeah. But you've say, Juan Barkley, AJ Brown, if he ends up staying, which I mean, I think that it can calm down. If he changed you higher in your coach, and we'll see what happens there. You have Devante Smith, you have an incredible offensive line. You have Jeff Stoutland, like, yeah. I you have a pretty incredible infrastructure. You have an amazing defense. Dude, if Mike McDaniel goes to Philly, you keep saying this and everyone keeps saying it's a coordinator. Do you serious? Do you think nine head coaches will be hired and Mike McDaniel? DK, do you think Mike McDaniel is actually not going to get one of the nine head coaching jobs? Well, it's eight because one of them is Miami. Oh, yeah, fair. Um, yeah, I think it's possible. There's a lot of good candidates right now. Um, or at least interesting candidates. I think it is really just a personality point of view. That's a big question. Like we said this when he was hired by the Dolphins. He's like very awkward and like the call with Tua from the airplane and all that stuff. It's just like, oh, God, I can't even watch this. I think when you get fired like that, teams are going to be a little bit careful about like, okay, what kind of personality is this guy? We like his, we like his schematics and his play calling. But is he going to, I personally think he had the team playing pretty hard right before the season ended? So that was like a good sign, especially after benching Tua. But I would say there's some doubt there that teams will see him as a head coach type of guy. I am genuinely worried that the Giants won't hire him because they're going to worry about him with the media. Meanwhile, I just think that he would be the best coach for Jackson's art. And if they kick a Tom and her harboh. I feel like you have said you want Tom and Harbaugh and McDaniel, which is it? I said all that because I said I wanted Mike Botanel, then John Harbaugh get fucking fired. And then I said I wanted John Harbaugh and then Mike Tom had got fucking fired. So rank him right now. You can pick if I can pick. I want man, there's no way I get off defense. Pa, this is easy. I want my Tom and man. I want my Tom and Mike. There's a world where I look back. Mike McDaniel goes to Tennessee and they just are incredible Kim Ward. And I'm great not having Mike McDaniel. But I got to tell you, my life would get so much better. So quickly, if Mike Tom and was the coach of the Giants that I just, I do want to go from hell to purgatory and I would love 10 years of not of making the playoffs and losing anything. Anything like nine and eight wild card appearances and then we lose one and done. I would love that. Tom and first, I am not in position to turn down John Harbaugh. And then I would actually rather have Mike McDaniel. You see me? I've not in any position to turn him down. Baggers, campy choosers. Yeah. If it turns out that John Harbaugh is not able to succeed outside the Ravens infrastructure, then like the Giants, we can hardly earn that the hard way. Then I would take, I would take Mike McDaniel. I think that what he did in Miami is underrated. I think that I, I think there was more innovation from him. He's not a one trick pony. Where it's like, look, you had all the fast people. I think the quarterback was a limited point guard with a new alarm and a lot of injuries, a hip ankle injuries, an I'm his arm strength. These two, I don't explain to it to people. The offensive line sucked. I think Mike McDaniel maximized that thing. And I think Mike McDaniel could do crazy stuff with neighbors and Jackson Dart. And then I would take Kevin's to Fansky. I'm fine with that. Or Khrushula. I actually like Khrushula. If I did not a former head coach, a Khrushula is the candidate and like Jeff Hathley, if all those guys went elsewhere. All right. Well, you're probably going to get one of those five. I would like to think so. Great. You asked what's the best offensive coordinator job right now? I was just looking through the list. And I might have missed one because I think the commander's hired a guy just from internal. So getting to work with Jane Daniels that I think that would be really attractive to a lot of offensive play callers. The other two here that are really, really, really interesting are the Lions. We don't have an offensive coordinator right now. And the chargers who just fired Greg Roman getting to work with Justin Herbert. So I think there's actually quite a, there's a handful of teams here with extremely. You know, if you're if you're an offensive play caller type guy trying to rise in the ranks, like these guys could be the meal ticket to head coaching job. You know what I mean? Getting to play with these coaches or these court quarterbacks is huge. If you want to skate to where the puck is heading, you would take the chargers job. Because it's like, if obviously the Eagles job, it's like you can clear it. But you're at the end of the day, you are limited by what Jalen Hertz does. Justin Herbert is actually the Mr. unlimited, like the Russell Wilson freaking nickname. Like he's going to get is he's going to get someone hired as a head coach, right? The chargers need to throw as much money as possible at Mike McDaniel. And if you have Harbond McDaniel running Justin Herbert in the chargers, it would be unbelievable. Because the thing is Greg Roman, it's under like I, the whole thing. Oh, I went to Ravens camp and like I asked Greg Roman to describe this as back when I know right. Yes, yes. He I can't keep track of what level of hair Greg Roman was at the time. It's fluctuated over the years. But he I asked him like to describe the word that his offense in one word. It was like kids day. So it's like, how would you explain it all the kids? And he was like, you're just in that group of kids. Yeah. Well, they were like, you're not an adult. You can't go all the adult. He was hanging out with the big. No, it was big. Big child. Just sitting like cross-legged in a circle around the coach. Sorry. Go ahead. No, that's closer than you think. Like like heavy or Billy Madison asking mislippia question. Yeah. You the tall one. I'm like, but I was like one word and he was like the offense is medieval. And that is a different ever the Ravens bully ball with Lamar. But like the last year with the charges 2023, like it still was medieval. Like they were trying to run the ball like that. Like this was the first year Greg Roman offense has had modern passing concepts and like trying and running play throwing on first down. But like if you tick herber with like what Mike McDaniel's done or one of the kubi acts or just any of these offenses where like Helen Moore, like all these guys that are getting production and it's shut and everything. The charges with healthier offensive line enabled and stuff. I think that is like that is the higher ceiling. It's going to be exciting because they're going to have a more healthy offensive line in theory, although they are cursed. So who knows? And then right you get, you know, better run game and theory with Amar and Hampton being healthy coming back next year. Well, it's just a question of like what would you rather do? Take a job with the cardinals as a head coach. If you're Mike McDaniel and you get a head coaching job and that's what that's the ultimate goal right to be a head coach or it's a lot more money. Yes. Or you go to the chargers and you have one or two awesome seasons with the chargers and then you have a bit more freedom and flexibility in terms of where you could go next where you could then kind of be a Ben Johnson type where you're turning down teams and turning planes around. Rather than I'm going to take what I can get in whatever Tennessee or Arizona or Cleveland. Depends on the guy. Like it. What kind of I see where I personally. Yeah. I mean, obviously when I'm not looking at the money, I'm like, or the charger is being a coordinator. No, it's ever after me like 20 million dollars. So I don't know. But like I think the more logical move for McDaniel rather than taking the cardinals job would be to go do like being offensive coordinator for a couple of years, do that route. Be the be the bell of the ball in the coaching cycle in two years. He'd be great in LA. Man, that would be a lot of fun. Sure. Yeah. I just he's, why would you the Titans not hire him? That's the thing is again, cool. It's easy to say Mike McDaniel is run the chargers. I'm like, the the Titans should have Mike McDaniel play with cam work or coach with cam work. I'm like, the idea that nine coaches are going to see the guys that they've interviewed though. Watch out old school guys. Yeah. You're maybe right. Maybe I'm like Jason Garret. Are they Smith? Didn't they interview Jason Garrett? Oh my God. I forgot the Garrett. You're probably right that I'm under rating how much the being in the room factor where just people don't. People think he's weird and cannot command their respective very large men. Just yeah. Yeah. You're probably right. And they've interviewed Jason Garrett like McCarthy. It just I don't know. Maybe they're just doing that as a red herring or whatever. But it feels like the Titans are going for like an old school. You know, one of those guys. All right. So since Craig made me do that before we get out of here, Craig, I'm making you do it. Who the head coach is you want? Do you want John Harbour? If he wanted the job through patch channels? No, I don't want the Ravens coach. Just like I don't want LeBron on this warriors. I just want to do it. I don't want John Harbour. I'm not going down like that. Answer. Who's available? I kind of want I kind of like Mike McDaniel. What's your heart saying? Yeah. I think Daniel. Can't have Tom. I don't want Harbour. After that, I guess Kevin's to fancy. I don't want him either. I don't want a division guy. Inter would be cool. Yeah. The mentor Shula 38 year old defensive coordinator guru is okay. I that's that's fine. And I would be happy with that. But for something about getting somebody who is truly at the cutting edge of offensive play calling feels nice and refreshing. Yeah. I'm thinking I'm excited for you guys. For the Steelers. You enjoy it. Yeah. I'm thinking back to the Seahawks two years ago when my two chop choices and it was actually like pretty legit possibility for both of these guys that came down to Mike McDonald and Ben Johnson. And I was like, I really want to Ben Johnson. And then I mean, it worked out great for the Seahawks. But hopefully you guys will land, land somebody cool and it'll be a year up for both of your team. If this person's over 50 years old, I'm going to be upset. Well, history would tell us that he's not going to be. Yeah. So that's interesting. All three examples going back to 1969. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think that's all we got. You guys want to do like just a couple of emails and get out of here. Sure. All right. So we're going to have in again, we'll have a preview episode this week and we're going to do we're still in three episodes a week during the playoffs. So we're recapping, you know, suddenly and I guess early Monday morning, all the playoff games, everything, even after the Super Bowl. We're going to have two episodes a week leading up to the draft trades, free agency, the draft, he gives a draft expert here. We're going to have a draft guide and everything and talk about players, all seasons, all this stuff, talk about all nine openings when they get hired. And then we still do an episode a week during after the draft all summer. So if you're whatever, you're listening to us for watching us, please stick with us. And yeah, what that said, I have an email here. So we were talking on Sunday about also, think you'd have an email then. There were awesome emails, ringer, fantasy football, Gmail.com. Thank you for watching us on Netflix. And I don't know if you guys heard but tray young, got traded with wizards. Yeah. Anyone who, you know, wanted to check us out on Netflix, you might have seen that. There's big news. There's huge news. Yeah. Decaded. Did you know that? I heard about it. Yeah. I don't really know anything. Did you know what team tray young got traded to the wizards from? No. It's alright. That's why Howard Logan had to talk about it. Who? The Hawks. The Hawks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're going to forget a protein, that's fine. That's even the Hawks fans. It's like, yeah. No, but thank you to everyone who went to Netflix and saw a basketball show and then like came back and watched the real ones. So thank you. That's up now. On Sunday's episode, we talked about all these side effects of drug commercials. Yeah. The bleeding between the anus and what was it? What was the genitals? The bleeding. The bleeding taint. There was no grundle talk. Again, I'm unsure how one can bleed from that. Why do you want? Don't ask questions. You don't want the answer to. Anyway, so a lot of, a lot of emails about the drugs, but I wanted to shout out. This is an email censored by Ryan. Our man. And this could not be more perfect right now because Craig also watched Lord of the Rings over the holidays. He'd never seen Lord of the Rings. That episode's on Netflix, right? You can hear us talking about Lord of the Rings. Yes. Friday. That was fun. The back half of the Friday week 18 preview was Craig admitting to us that he watched Lord of the Rings. It's interesting. I surprised. I regaled you. Fair enough. It was fun. That's very fun. It was fun. I've had years. It was great. So by the way, I wanted to apologize. I got the, I think I said raising of the shire. We were talking about the last chapter of the book and like how they had left it out of the movie. It's the scouring of the shire. Right. Right. Right. I didn't want to say anything. That's so embarrassing for me. So anyway, Ryan sent us an email. There's a website called anti-depressant or Tolkien doc. Uh, a doc on and it's, is it a Tolkien J.R. Tolkien character or an antidepressant? Hell yeah. Ooh, this is fun. DK. This is our corner. I'm leading on you, DK. I'm going to play it. Should I share my screen or should I just read it to you? Just read it. All right. First, dude, this is so funny. All right. The first one here, anti-depressant or Lord of the Rings character. It's so good. Okay. Lou Vox. L-U-V-O-X. Lou Vox. I feel like there's a lot of X's in in pharmaceutical drugs. I think it's a drug. I think it's a drug. Okay. We're say anti-depressant. We're correct. Thank you. Okay. Next one here is cledial and there's an accident over the, that's going to be Lord of the Rings. Right. They're not throwing an accent on a pharmaceutical drug. No, no, I would not think. Oh, no, that's wrong. Okay. What? Metaphoxamine previously sold under the brand name cledial and Jardaxil. Was it an accent? They're throwing accents on drugs. Yeah. Well, it must be big in Latin America. It's in France and Spain. Okay. Symbolta. I think that's a drug. That's a drug. That's it. I've heard that drug before. All right. I take that all the time when I want to get a little crazy. Burgl. Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings. By the way, is it, is it Tolkien or just Tolkien? I don't know. I've never known. I've gotten this foreign license. I lean Tolkien. Tolkien. Tolkien. It's like 30 years. No, I hope we get destroyed. I don't know. I don't know. Is J. Are talking. Tolkien. Tolkien. Just like token with an L. Tolkien. You know what is what the J. R. R. R stands for. John Rick Randy Tolkien. It's not J. R. Is it J. R. R. Are you saying R. Are two R's? So there's George R. R. Martin and J. R. Tolkien. I actually get the thought of it. J. R. Tolkien. Yes. No, it's J. R. R. It's John Ronald Ruel. Tolkien. What's up with that? We got R. R. Tolkien and R. R. Martin. I think that was like fucking shriifting on that. Oh, is it? I never thought about that, but probably. George Raymond Richard Martin. So he just had J. R. R. names. It's kind of a R. Antidepressants are Tolkien. Norma Sill. Gotta be a drug. Hmm. I think that sounds like a name. I'm Tolkien. I'm going to Tolkien too. We correct. The 17th King of Gondor. Of course. Of course. A man to Dean. Drug drug. They all sound like drugs to me. That's correct. We're doing pretty great. Uh, thinner thinner thinner. That's a he's that's a J. R. A Tolkien guy. Okay. All right. We're kind of nailing it. That's a real. Another King of Gondor. No, that's a drug. Oh, I got to shout out Ryan, because these are really good suggestions. Yeah. Uh, Deserrill. This is Antidepressants or Tolkien. Versal. Aps actually a website. Someone made. I made that. Okay. Deser. The common side of ex dry mouth feeling fate vomiting and headache for Deserrill. Hmm. Celebrion. It's like, select, celebrate in. Celebrion. Celebrion. Uh, it's a cell. Tolkien. There's an accent on the eye. Yeah, it's all good. Tolkien. Okay, that's right. She was the wife of Elrond. Escaleth. I can't remember Elrond from the movie. Just from Scientology. No, God damn it. Oh my god. I, okay, wait. Uh, Elrond was Hugo weaving. Remember from the movies, Greg? Who? Hugo weaving. Remind me. Guy, you know, uh, he's in like, um, he's, uh, in the matrix. He's the bad guy in the matrix. Who's he like? What does he look like in Lord of the Rings? He's an elf. He's like the key. He loses that or something. No. Oh, the guy, he's, he's our one's dad. Dude, you know what? Blue my mind is I didn't realize until after watching Lord of the Rings, the guy who plays Gimli is the same guy who plays Sala in Indiana Jones. John Reese Davies. I did not realize that was the same person. Wow. Which guy in Indiana Jones? He plays, he plays Sala in Indiana Jones. That happens to be all the time when I realized that an actor is British. Like, like, I think I know now this is like super well known, but at the time in the wire, Idris Elbow is not like that well known. And when, like, there was a point learning that Idris Elbow was British was fucking mind blown. All these actors in the wire of British have like these specific Baltimore accents. Like when Game of Thrones happened, little finger was British. I couldn't fucking believe it. Craig, by the way, he also, I, this is what I thought he also voiced tree beard, the main end, the big tree. Gimli was tree beard. Yeah. The same actor did John Reese Davies. That's dude. I love trees. I was going to say succession is another show where I like everyone in it, like Matthew McFaddy and Tom Wombsgans. The second I heard him have a British action. I was blown away Brian Cox, who plays the dad is Scottish. Shiv Roy Australian. Like all of them. The most crazy accents. Why are you so better at this? It says here, John Reese Davies voice was the original voice of Manray and SpongeBob square pants. Wow. I don't know what that means, but man ray. Yeah. Was John Reese Davies? That's wild. According to this. Yeah. Whoa. That means it was recast. He didn't do it for the whole time. Well, so the original man ray was John Reese Davies. Wow. That's like top five sponge. Probably episode drawing a line between Indiana Jones and SpongeBob for Craig is, is that is good as again. The orb of confusion DK, are you even familiar with that? I'm not. Craig watch Lord of the Rings. I think DK's going to watch some SpongeBob. I think that's the thing. You like a half dude. You have a six year old kid. You all throw. I'll give you a five sponge. I said, you can watch with him. Yeah, make your kid dumb. I want him to be a SpongeBob. Yes. SpongeBob is very smart. Okay. Maybe I finally would understand all the memes. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Austin. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Mike Talman for the 2019 season season. Oh, I'm going to miss you, buddy. Take the Giants job, Mike. Fox Fox sports TV. Yes. Do TV for a year. Live it up. You'll always be there. Go to the show. Do you actually not want to go to the gym? I would like to see him take a year off so I can kind of just hang out with him on television. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would like. I'd like to hang out with him as the coach of the New York Giants. You're going to produce his new podcast. That's right. Mike Talman, you can come work, you know, fantasy football show. Maybe you'll join. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Lord. Lord. Thank you, Olivia Dean. Yeah. So nice. All right. Tell me what you guys think. I think you have stole my tweet about her. I know. I saw you. We had the same. Not that it was like the most creative comment, but I literally put on our Instagram. Breeze Hall, the Jets running back tweeted Olivia Dean, or Olivia Dean Alvis greater, whatever. And so I put that on our Instagram and said, Breeze Hall knows ball. And then 20 minutes later, the NFL account said, Breeze Hall knows ball. And posted the Olivia Dean. Could you seriously? She's great. D.K., are you familiar with her work? I'm not really familiar. I mean, I bet you I'd recognize it. But off the top of my head, I don't know. She's phenomenal. What's one of her songs? Man, I need is her the big one. Sing it. I mean, you guys are bad. I need I want it. I kind of like when you call me wonderful. She makes I mean, isn't the most complimentary way possible. She makes music. That sounds like it's like would be the best montage played under like a really good montage in a romcom. Like it's like when Harry met Sally music or something. I don't know. I just feel make you feel good. She's very fall winter. Like she she she really like November December music, which I can't explain. And I think she got a little. She lost a little not lustrous the wrong word, but she got I think she Spotify wrapped on the goes to like December like December for first or December fifth or something. And I think she's a big like December January artist. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, man, I need so easy nice to each other. Sure. Yeah. Like I got a play. D.K. I think you really like Olivia Dean. It's hard not to. It's like such easy fun listening. Right. She's good. I'll check it out. I think I hope she wins best new artist at the Grammys. Yeah, she's phenomenal. Olivia Dean, if you play fantasy football, you can come on the show, whatever you want. We'll we'll boot by Tom and for you. Yeah. Yes. Dude, can't see my mirrors. Then I can't see you. My windshield is bigger than my rear view. Can he super forks? Goodbye, everyone.