World Read Aloud Day with Pam Allyn

Hi guys, welcome back to Brie Glide's podcast. We are fully into 2026 and I have my dear friend who's a mentor. She's never gonna wait for me, Pam Allen. You guys know her from our wonderful conversations about reading. She's an author, she's an educator, she's now founder, she's a mom, she's a screen mom, she's everything. Pam, welcome back. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me back. Well we are back for a very special week and before we dive into this, catch us up, our audience, they know a little bit about what's going on with you and your company and why we're talking about Read Out Loud and Importance this week. Well just catching everyone up. Yep, we, coming up on the great holiday World Read Aloud Day which I founded 16 years ago with a little boy in second grade had the idea to make the Read Aloud a big birthday party that was his thought. And since, you know, the last year or so or since we've last talked, my biggest focus has been on early childhood reading and writing and I just created a program called Pals Town which we're sharing widely now which is very exciting. In fact, everyone can keep an eye out. We're going to have a YouTube channel because the pals are super cute and also help kids learn to read and write from a very early age. And I just think kids can do a lot, you know, from a very early time. No matter how diverse their learning styles are or how they grow in different ways because not every child's going to do everything at the same time. We wanted to create a very welcoming, abrasive environment for literacy for our youngest children. So that's what I've been up to. But offline, I was just sharing with Pam about how she's walked me through my oldest literacy and now very interesting that at my youngest, who's four, I was just sharing with her just this about the levels of I feel like, you know, the differences in like different preschool programs or daycare programs. There's no universal, this is what a three year old or this is how two year olds just are. And so I'm so happy you're covering that gap, Pam, but more to come on that and I'll make sure I'll link everything. But this episode, I think it would be a really great time to pick your brain about we hear AI coming, we hear chat GPT, we hear this world of basically our kids brains are like, do they even have to use them anymore? They've got chat GPT. So we really wanted to bunk that and talk to you who knows the value of literacy and early learning and read out loud. So I guess it's like, what from your background makes you just so avocated? I can be like, no, it does matter to read. It does matter for a baby to hear you read. Like, what is that that drives this conversation? Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is, I feel like I'm very blessed that I've been around children my entire career of all ages and I've gotten to spend so much time with them. And there are some things that change radically in society, like the technologies are always changing, you know, politics are changing, everything changes. But actually, one thing that remains incredibly constant is how a child grows. Child is born, baby is born, again, born at different, you know, times, different levels, depending on how that process goes. Not every baby is going to develop exactly in the same rate. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is holistically that children, their brains, their hearts, their spirits are very human. So no matter what we say about technology, no matter what, how we want to apply it, no matter what game or screen we want to give our kids, it's supposedly a magic bullet. At the end of the day, love, care, nearness to that child, the sound of your voice or the look of your sign language. If you're, if that's you're a deaf person in deaf community, because deaf people also in my background is a deaf education and that that's been a big impact on me too, is that children are learning language. Language is the key to everything. And the key to language development is a kind of immersive experience that will never be solved by technology, even as much as we wish it could be. You know, I think some things are solved easily by technology, like, you know, thank goodness for whoever invented the washing machine, for example, you know, or the iPhone, we love our phones and that kind of thing. But for a child, language and literacy are the key to their entire life, life of purpose, life of independence, life of connection, falling in love with someone, caring about someone, being independent, resilient when you get to a hard place in your life. And so reading is, it's just essential and urgent because people are out there writing stories, telling stories, whether it's, you know, a magical story that a child listens to or it's a story of reality, somebody or a biography or a story about how to play soccer or any of those things. The child is hungry for that, hungry for story. We are as human beings wired for storytelling. And chat GPT and the whole world of AI, a lot of people out there want to convince you that that's a much better way to be in the world than to be in the world just side by side with people. But I will tell you that, you know, I unfortunately have a friend who's having a serious illness right now and there's nothing we want to do more than just be with each other. We just want to be together. We're not really thinking about technology that much. We're really not. And I think if you think about being in the moment of your life with a child and the memorable nature of a read aloud, your voice, their attentive listening, the laughter that you do together, you can't outsource that. That's just, no. And so I'm really, the more time goes on, I'm much more adamant even about the need for a book in the hand, a parent or caregiver, babysitter, grandparent, wonderful aunt or uncle right near that child reading that book is honestly, it's one of the best things you can do for a child. No, I love that. And I do think we all want to get it right as parents, right? And I think that speaks to so many things. And then if we are already anxious, we are in our world of mental health, if there is things, right? And there is so much clickbait of, well, your kid will succeed or you do this, right? And it's really pulling back to the basics, right? And what do you see now? We kind of have this view of interesting of like these kids who are coming in and AI is a real thing versus you're seeing maybe the high schoolers who they didn't have the AI, right? Like those, the divisions of the groups and like where can parents are like, okay, Pam, well, now I have a two month old and I have a five year old. So I don't know where to navigate it myself. Like what do you say to that gap of like, okay, we've got some kids that's been screensed, we're full in, they learned during COVID on school. Then we have some who's like, it's not really paying versus our kid we're going, are they even going to college or is that AI? Right. I mean, some of it is really like we don't know what the future will bring. And I think that's where what I think is really reassuring is to say there are things that we can do at home that are incredibly nourishing and enriching for a child that really in fact, I think a child who's read to at home, a child that has a library of books, whether you're taking them out of the public library and bringing them home weekly, you don't have to have a lot of money to do anything that I ever say. I don't rely on a lot of resources, but those kinds of free options that are existing that we can actually make little book baskets at home for our children and things like that. To me, represent more of an investment in your child's emotionally secure, academically secure future than anything because truthfully, like we won't know. Like when I think about the first year I taught my students, you know, I could never have imagined the world of technology that would have existed later. To this day, all these years, many years later, they'll write me and say, Mrs. Allen, thank you for teaching me how to read because whatever they're using now on their technology, it's still incredibly the most useful thing is that I taught them how to do something on any platform. And I think sometimes what we think about with AI and chat GPT and any of these things is that I like to say those are tools. And so what I it's almost like teaching your child how to cook with you, you know, when you're cooking dinner, you're baking, and you bring them on the stool next to you, you know, and they stand there and they're just trying out the they don't know the measurement cups or but they like the pouring and they like the work that they're doing to help you. I think that's a very good analogy to literacy because it's not like I'm teaching them how to be a professional chef. And it isn't like maybe in the future, that would be nice if food just came to us technologically. That'd be great. I'm teaching them as some practices, human practices that are about being together with someone about collaboration, about trust, about having fun and laughing, about measuring about math, about reading an instrument or even watching me read a recipe or look at a recipe on Instagram, even if that's what we're doing. That's a form of literacy, too. I don't even have to have a written recipe anymore. I think the same is true with literacy. It's like sitting with a child, turning the pages of a book. Don't worry if they don't finish the book. Don't worry if it's not exactly the most exciting book or even the most literary book. It's just letting them experience just like baking, you know, that this feels good. This feels like something I'm doing with someone. I'm learning how to be with someone in the world. And I think literacy and the whole act of living, like that idea of cooking or baking, it's something so good and they're doing it for someone, is really powerful. And I think that the thing about technology is as fun as it is and as wonderful as it is in some ways, it's also depressing in other ways. I've actually gone back. I used to be really a big fan of the Kindle. I took it with me. I travel a lot. So I was, oh, it's so great. You don't have to pack your suitcase. But like in the last year, I've gone back to print books. Like I've gone back to just holding, I buy them, I take them out of the library, whatever it takes. Because I just realized my attention was so low. Like I was, if I was reading a novel on the Kindle, after five seconds, I was checking my email. And for you and me, that's probably not the worst possible terrible thing that could happen. But for a child, that low attention span is very bad. It's very deadly to later. They're going to have to take tests. They're going to have to write essays. They're going to have to do things in school that require attention. And so literacy in the home is like, let's bring back the old fashioned way because it really helps. It really helps for all of us. And it's the exposure to one thing I really appreciated about reading with my sons is it brings, you can visually use a beautiful illustration. You can read the new words. Like I'm not always going to be able to describe what a bear and a bee situation, that's not something that's just in my head on a random Monday, is to be like, oh, okay, this is what happens when a honey bear finds honey bees and he tries to steal it. But he brought home a really cute book. And like, it's lost of when you're just watching something, right? Or and it happens to us when we're scrolling Instagram or we're doing scrolling, you know, you lose the imagination, you lose the ability to transport to a fun universal place to kind of just forget about your issues for a minute. And that is some the importance of literacy to me is like you're teaching these kids again, presence, but imagination, new experiences. And it doesn't cost anything. Exactly. And I think I would highlight your point about imagination, because I feel like and also solace or kind of comfort, like, you know, when, when things are hard and a child says, well, I can just get lost in a book and like, yeah, magic of that story. That's not a small thing, because that's building self reliance to and, you know, this idea of also background building background knowledge, like when you read to your child about the honey bear, the honey bear, or something else that's in the world around the child. And just in the natural state of that book, they're learning that bears hibernate in the winter, or the garden grows in the spring. Those are things that without teaching them in this like very structured way, or even on a screen, they're just like getting it, you know, and it's coming to them. And it's a it's wonderful. And, you know, I really appreciate until I was a parent, I didn't think about it this way. But it was like, here we are, the same we can tell in our situation, if it's bullying, or if it's trying to do sport, or if it's a friend with disabilities, right? How do you explain these situations to your child, right? And there's some really great authors that's done the heavy work that I get to like read ahead, pick these amazing books, right? And it makes it make sense to the kid on that level versus mom being like, you know, sometimes just being mom, that mutes me out my voice, they're just like, okay, not going to listen. You know, but I do think we've forgotten the value of literacy, we've forgotten the value of a good book, we've forgotten about sitting next to each other with their PJs on and in just holding something tangible. I feel like there's no comparison, because the other thing about reading aloud, or any kind of like shared literacy experience at home, that doesn't involve screens, is that there's also like a world building experience that you're doing together. So as opposed to you send the child off to the screen, and they do 10 minutes of, you know, something probably fairly concrete, fine. But with you as this kind of beloved adult, whatever that experience is in the book, let's say it is about bullying, or let's say it is about friendship, even just simple, like making a friend, like that example, you think about the books that are, you know, around about friendship, whether it's about animal friendships or people friendships, or friendships that do work out or don't work out, you and your child are building a shared understanding. So later you can say if the child has a hard day at school, and they come home and they say, you know, Susan wouldn't play with me today. You can say, remember when we were reading that book about frog and toad, and they got kind of a little argument, but later they worked it out, let's like think about what did frog do to like make up with toad, or you know, and it's just so helpful to have those shared stories, you know, you, it teachers love that for that reason too, because they can, they can build the shared world of story with their kids, and then later say, remember when we were reading Cat Wings and how even in times of trouble, you know, the characters were able to get out of the problem, like we can do that. And it sort of takes it out of the personal and puts it into this other, you're not saying, well, how come you don't have any friends? You know, I'm, I'm scared you need to make, because that's what we do as parents, we get very real. Yes, because we're sensitive and we love our children and we'll do anything for them. But I think stories help us bring another element into our relationship. And I think that's more important than any, anything honestly is that I love that. What's of listeners going, okay, that's great, Pam, I've missed the boat. Okay. Well, how do you get it back? Is there like, okay, well, I've, we've went too much screens. I don't remember the last time my child picked up a book. Is it too late, like I have an older son and now I have a bit like, what they're going, okay, recent or us work we did. Yeah, I love that question. That's such an excellent question, because I feel like we all, even for us, like I said earlier, I mean, even I had to recenter myself. I was like, wait, hold on, let me observe this, let me pay attention to myself. Like, this is not working for me. Like I got to change up my habit, you know, I think for our family life with our children, there are a few very, very good things that we can do. One is, are we and have we lately made actual books and the reading experience feel like a reward or a prize rather than that's what you do at school, but at home we get the screens or we play games or all of that stuff. So that's the first thing is like, where can we one give books as gifts again, you know, wrap them up, you know, attach them with like chocolate candies or just make it real special like Valentine's Day would be a great time to give a little book to a child. The second thing is like, where in my house or my apartment do I value publicly value books and you could put them in places that you would never have thought of, like in the bathroom or in bedrooms but out of the shelves, say to your kids, let's make a little favorite basket near the bed so we can just grab them right before we go to sleep. So making books more visible again, because that's another thing like I even for myself, I'm like, wait a minute, I don't even have any books featured anymore because yeah, so that's number two. And then number three is like making the rituals not always around bedtime, because bedtime is good, but it because everybody loves that that's cozy and stay with that. But bedtime is also rushed and everyone's tired and you've got to, you know, sink full of dishes and you just got a lot going on and you might be working full time and they're going to school full time. So a Saturday morning or a Sunday morning is a great time to renew like a trip to the library with a stop off on the way home to the ice cream shop. Like I'm not in any way opposed to pairing up with some really fun, sweet, one of the streets. I think the other thing too is like just as far as that goes, you know, if you food is not what you want to pair up with the books, then just the fact that, you know, almost renaming it, you know, let's go on a library adventure today or write down three things that you love the most and the kid writes soccer, hamburgers and grandpa, you know, and you could say, let's like actually invite grandpa to go with us to the library, get a book out together and then stop off to have a sandwich or again, forget about the food and just have like, let's look for books about food at the library trying to lean into their passions. And I think so it's one is, you know, put the ritual back in and two is put the books where people can see them and mix those up, like change them up, like don't keep the sale. I do that too. I'm like, wait, I got to freshen up this bookshelf for a little Gus because he's seen those same books for a couple weeks. And then the third thing is just how the rituals can be more fun. You could have a book swap with members of the family. You could actually do if you have grandparents or relatives who live at a distance, do a FaceTime, read aloud with them. So the technology is there, but you're, you're making it mean something more special and more, more exciting and less about the homework and more about the family time. And I will say we, you know, we noticed my husband's a big component of this and he actually asked one of his college and she still to say a great friend him and said, you've such great vocabulary. And I've always just thought you spoke amazing. And and she said, you know, my parents from early on from magazines to books, just always had them on the kitchen table in the car, you know, like to your point in the bathroom. And she said it was, it was just so just easy to pick up not on a shelf, but in front of me that I found myself going there and learning those new words being engaged, you know, when she was little by the pictures. So we, he's been a big component to that and we have seen it, you know, because it is so easy to be like, Oh, here's a long car trip. And I'm saying we're still going to use screens too. But let's put the books first before we turn on the screen. And you know what, like, they do it. And I will just say to you, I'm not opposed to screens at all. Like I think they're blend in the environment. So just so everybody knows, like, because I know there are a lot of hours in a day, and especially on the weekends for tired parents and busy parents. And, and also there are some really good things to do on screen. So I like the mixture, the blend, the sorry, we don't have time anymore to read quote, real books. No, that I'm not going to accept that I won't accept it. But I also like I do love the serendipity of the book just happens to be on the table. You're making dinner and the child's coming in and just wants to talk to you and just kind of thumbs through it. Another thing I'll recommend is there's some great magazines for kids that are just doing a beautiful job. National Geographic Kids, Highlights for Kids, they really stepped up their game. Scholastic, I think has a magazine that we recently were browsing through, Gus and I, there are some really good ones that you know, you can subscribe, they come every month, like Gus, he loves to see his name on the label. He can't quite look at the whole thing yet. He's a little young, but the pictures are amazing and they always have these beautiful photographs. So for kids who just like browsing, have those out on your table or have a little magazine rack, you know, because the magazines are also great, like going real back to the, back to basics, back to the homey, old fashioned, you know, wonderful ways of that. And I'll say about screens, this is just a very simple thing, but parents will ask me like, you know, I do need the break, you know, I really need a break and my kids just want to do some screen time. I'll say my main recommendation with that is trying to find shows that actually have stories, narratives and, you know, like Gus, right now, he's really into Daniel the Tiger, that's one he really likes. Trash Truck, he really likes. Those are really good, like they're definitely like high, low, like we have it too, like you can watch a pretty show, no problem, but there are also some great narrative TV programs on that are really good. And I'm okay, like, look, sometimes you just need to watch something to tune your mind out, which is fine. But the thing I say is really just like, look at the balance of hours across the day. Is there a little time for them to watch a narrative show? Is there a little time for you to do a read aloud? Is there a little time for them to zone out? All of that is good. But just make sure the thing you're not eliminating is the most old fashioned tried and true thing. Yeah. And, you know, my boys, when their favorite days of the week is their library day at school. And I do love that. And I love that schools keep that. And, you know, I was thinking, I was like, oh my gosh, I hope the AI doesn't replace our sweet librarians, you know? And I don't think it will, you know, unless it's like going to have automatic bookshelves coming out one day, which will be really kind of odd and weird. And, you know, it just will lose the whole being of our wonderful librarians. But I do very much appreciate we can live in a world above existence. But to your point, you can't reach out GPT if you don't know how to read. That's right. You can't, you know, it can tell you how to solve your problem. But if you cannot read that. Right. And the thing is, even people will say to me, well, but, you know, it's going to get so advanced that they'll, you know, they'll be, you know, everything will be voice activated or it'll be even something else. We're not even sure what that is. And there are two things I would say to that. One is that's true. But think about it, like how many years have we been talking about like flying cars, you know, Elon Musk has been talking about that. I'm sure it'll happen, for sure. But in the meantime, like your 16 year old still needs a driver's license, it still needs to know how to drive. So, and we'll know how to need to know even if it's in the air how to drive. And the self driving cars are problematic and don't work all that well. So technology is not to be trusted, you know what I mean? But I think like with reading and literacy, even if what you're doing is like inputting one sentence into chat GPT, like this morning I was asking it something about, I don't know, a medical thing I was asking. And I was just so grateful that I have good literacy skills that I could really target the question. Like I could ask the right question because I see kids trying to use chat GPT. And if their literacy skills are low, they can't use the tool that well. They ask really imperfect questions. They can't really do it. And literacy is oral also. So if I'm just shooting my, you know, like thoughts over to Siri, you know, tell me when such and such happened, that that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that me being literate, I can ask Siri a better question and and a more refined question. And so that's why I think, number one, we don't know what the future is going to hold. So let's keep with what we know works. And two is if the future does hold something different, the best thing we could do for our kids is teach them how to be critical thinkers, how to write, read and speak with eloquence. And that's really literacy. Yeah, I think it's all great points. And I think we're touching on a subject that it's on everybody's mind. Parents are going, what's going on now? You know, schools, I know I saw in our, my son's schools, high school, they're doing a chat GPT kind of like course situation, but then, you know, very much in my youngest, he's four, we're still learning to read, right? So it is, and I'm more concerned to your point that my children will be good humans and communicate. I want them to get lost in books. I want their imagination. I want it to be a safe place when, you know, technology and Instagram, Facebook is doom scrolling for a reason. It's a dark spot. So I do think if we can, this generation of parents, I think is changing a lot of ways. And challenging status quo. So I really appreciate this conversation, but I'll leave this with final question. What's one thing that you want them on who's listening? It's like, Pam, I'm a little terrified. I'm a little excited about technology. I feel a little bad that now I'm like, going to be literally after this podcast, putting books on my kitchen table. Like, what's that one thing you kind of just comfort and say have been like, because you've been there, done that scene at all, that she's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. I think the main thing is you, this is so simple, but so true. It's like, I think to encompass everything that you do with your child with love, when it's the screen, when it's the book, it's just that sense of love. Like I have faith in this that we're going to make mistakes, we're going to stumble, we're going to sort of regroup and say, whoa, it feels like we're all on our screens too much. Look what the school districts have done. They're now saying no phones at the high school now. Districts are saying, we're going to remove, I can't remember where there's a state, an entire state that's going to stop using screens, even in the classroom. So even educators can go too far in one direction and have to kind of pull back a little bit. And I'd say the one thing I'll say to end is that in reassurance, the most forgiving people there are in the world are your own children. Like they don't want more than love from you in the first place. And so to say, wow, I feel like we've been actually all of us on our screens too much. Can we change that up a bit? I think they're with you, especially if they see you doing it. Because by the way, the last study I just read literally on the weekend is that something that's worse than kids being on screens too much is parents being on screens in front of their kids. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so that's something we can control. Our kids can get addicted very quickly. But if we are, the question is can we turn those screens off, be in conversation, be in the read aloud, be in the putting those, just putting things on the dining room table, just letting things happen. We have to do that work too. And I think that's not so hard. Even if you just said, I'm going to do that, I'm going to be off, I'm going to turn my phone off from like six to seven when my kid is just sitting at the table with me. That's not a big lift. And you can make a lifetime of difference with that. Now, I think that's a thing we all need to, I mean, it hits home for me, it hits home, I know for a lot of people, it starts with us. And, you know, and we model and that's what my husband, he actually said not too long ago. He was, I just not sure if our oldest thinks I read. And I was like, okay. And he was like, and so he has purposely, you know, brought books of his, of, he will make a point to be like, God really loves this book. He's going to take a few minutes while you're doing this to read the book. And it has been interesting because I have noticed my son be like, Oh yeah, dad, I don't know. Maybe he thought he couldn't read. Who knows, you know, kids are funny like that. But it's, it is just like, it works. It works. Awesome. What an amazing thing he's doing that. And because I do say to parents, like when they see you on your phone, they don't know what you're doing. It's like, if so far as they know, you could be playing like a Pokemon game or something, they have no idea. So for him to visibly show himself as a reader, I think is huge and more important now than it's ever been, probably in the history of parenting. So I think this new generation of parents is going to be the best ever. I think that, you know, in a way, I think that this generation has the best benefits. Because I think like five, seven years ago, there was a lot of misconceptions about the dangers of screen technology. And now I think people are more concerned. They see what happens with mental health and academic, you know, issues, so I'm just excited. Like, I think, you know, you can do it all, you can. And it's a question of just stopping and really checking yourself and then being honest with your child and saying, like, I want us to do more of this because it feels good for me too. To your point, being honest and saying, you know, parents, we're not superheroes, right? And we mess up. And I think our kids, like I have a perfectionist, if he doesn't hear me saying, Oh, we got a course correct, but like, you know, we've went this way and it's okay. And it's not, we're not like sticking, we're not staying in our flaws, we're not staying in our mistake. We're just correcting, we're moving on. So I think there's so much value from World Reout Loud that like, it's just like layers of what we can have as a family conversation, internal conversation. And so I'm just so grateful that you in that second grade, sweet boy, decided like, hey, we need a birthday party. And I think we really need, it could be a yearly, it should be more than yearly, but definitely yearly, like, let's recenter, let's like, go back to it. And, you know, we got to go back to ABC is literally of life. And I love that. I love that so much. I love that so much. And I feel like World Read All Out Day, you know, it is just one day a year. But I think what it does for people is just to say, on this day, we're going to just practice something that we remember feels really good, but might not have remembered to always do. How many people tell me, you know, the first Wednesday of every February, when this happens afterwards, I get a slew of messages from people saying, thanks for reminding me how good this feels. Yeah. And I just takes that one recurrence, right? And you're just, you're kind of go back on it. So we're really appreciative of you. And you're not going anywhere. I'm not going to let you go anywhere. And we'll tackle more education and life issues. But how our listeners, I'll link everything because I know people like at the Air Puts Inn, they're going back for where's the best way to find you and support you. Thanks so much. Yeah. So everybody, you could reach me at a Pam Allen dot com, a l l y n, or at litworld.org. And that's where you'll find everything about World Read All Out Day. So litworld.org has free resources, lists, we're going to have a really cute little booklet on early childhood digital booklet that you can download if you like on early childhood tips for reading it loud at home. And just a lot of fun stuff is happening over there. So definitely visit us there. And we'll look forward to people celebrating and post on anywhere you can. But the most important thing is to find somebody on World Read All Out Day, February 4th, Wednesday, just find somebody to read aloud to if you don't have a child nearby, just read to, you know, call your your mom and just read something to her. You'll be surprised at how good that makes her feel. I love it. Thank you so much, Pam. As always, we appreciate you. You too. You too. Thank you for all you do, Sarah. And thanks to the whole community. All right, listeners, I'll be back next week. Returnal mental health is as important as physical health. The Previous Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with post-paramed depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.