Seattle 1999. Teen reporters hear a troubling rumor about a beloved teacher. They report it. He later dies. I was one of those students. Now I'm uncovering what really happened, because people said we killed a man. Listen to adults in the room from KUOW Focus and the NPR network. You're listening to LifeKit from NPR. Hey, it's Marielle. Have you ever been on a trip with a partner and they wanted to spend the day one way while you wanted to do something entirely different? They wanted to go to the art museum and you wanted to wander around the old cobblestone streets, take photos, pop into cute shops and cafes. They wanted to go on a hike. You wanted to chill by the pool. They wanted to see the ancient ruins. You wanted to go on a food tour. The good news is you do not have to spend all of your time together on a couple's trip. What's the secret to a successful couple's trip itinerary according to the experts? Build a balance of alone time and together time. This is travel journalist Amelia Edelman. Now in the scenario I mentioned, one solution could be splitting up for the afternoon. They do the museum, you wander, then you meet up for dinner. In another scenario where you both need a little alone time but you don't mind being in the same space, you could try being alone together, both reading by the pool. The key, as always, is knowing your partner, knowing yourself, and knowing how to talk to each other. Lucky for us, Amelia also reports on relationships and on this episode of LifeKit, she walks us through how to plan a couple's trip. We'll hear from couples therapists, a travel advisor, and a couple's money coach because money really can shape the entire experience. That's after the break. So I wanted to find out how do you balance different travel styles, like one person who loves a packed itinerary and one who just wants to wander? How do you talk about money before you're faced with splitting a $1,000 hotel bill? And what do you do in those inevitable moments when expectations don't match reality? One of the things that I always invite couples to think about is when I think about a vacation, the feeling I want most is dot, dot, dot. And I want you to fill in the blank for that. That's couples therapist and travel advisor Marissa Nelson. For some people, is this vacation about ease? Is it about excitement? And I think if you start there, we then start to examine what some of our hidden expectations are. That's takeaway number one, find your why. Marissa and the other experts I spoke with recommend not just talking with your partner about where you want to go, but about how you want to feel when you're there. Are you looking to explore, reconnect, try new things, do absolutely nothing? Because if you skip this step, you're not just planning a trip. You may well be planning a set of mismatched expectations. I would say that it's very important for both partners to be in the conversations about the trip and to actually express what they want, how they're feeling going into the trip, getting real clear on like, what do you need from this trip? Here's what I need from this trip. That's couples therapist Will Messer. Nobody wants to go on a trip with their partner and feel like deep down, this is really just the trip I wanted. Nobody really wants that. You know, they want to feel like my partner is wanting to be here and is excited about this too. For Will and his wife, their travel, why was partly a why now. Not long after they first got together nearly 18 years ago, she had a summer break from grad school and he had a job that was willing to let him take a mini sabbatical. So they decided to do a five week backpacking trip, just the two of them. It was a tremendous experience for both of us. We kind of realized this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity as far as time. Their trip was about experiencing adventure and novelty together. The best things were happening spontaneously or things you couldn't predict and even the things that weren't so pleasant turned out to be the best stories. Maybe yours on the other hand is about reconnection or relaxation. Maybe it's more laughter or time to talk. In some cases, when I see couples and they're really at a crossroad in their relationship, it could be more clarity about how to move forward. That's Marissa. She says that while you and your partner are honing it on your why, ask yourselves, what does fun look like on this trip for us? And how can we plan that? Once you've landed on your why, it'll give you all the information you need to choose a destination. This is where working with a travel advisor can help, especially if you and your partner are newer to traveling or extra concerned about safety or comfort levels. If you're a person of color, for example, what destinations won't make you feel othered? If you're a queer couple, where will you feel confident and at ease? Another idea Marissa says a great tip is to ask your friends. When your friends have gone on vacations, like what have they talked about? And like what are some of the places that they've loved? But also you can have those conversations of, oh, when you went to Portugal, how are you treated there? How did you feel there? Pre-planning for your unique preferences is a great way to ensure that you and your partner stay on the same page. But don't just pre-plan, pre-pay. That's takeaway number two. I prefer to say pre-paying instead of saving for, because psychologically, when you think about pre-paying for something, it's already yours. That's Jenny Wicholo, a money coach who blends financial planning with the inner work of money. She helps couples build vision aligned financial plans, including for travel, which isn't always cheap. When you pre-pay for something, then when the time arrives to actually go on that trip, you're not thinking about money. At least the most expensive elements of that trip have already been paid for. You've eliminated a huge element that could cause a lot of stress in your whole experience of that trip. In this way, pre-paying for your hotel, your flights, or even booking an all-inclusive stay means no surprise bills to bicker over while you're there. This past March, my partner planned our first couples trip for us. Typically, I'm the planner, so this was a real gift for me. He chose an all-inclusive package at a spa in Quebec, Canada. It included all meals plus one spa treatment per day. We paid for everything up front three months in advance and got to spend our trip thinking and talking about life, not our impending bill. Jenny says this is the way to do it. The last thing you want to do is be on your trip and be worried about money. You might as well have not gone on the trip, right? So get as much of that out of the way up front as possible. Do all that math now and start planning for it. Pre-pay every month towards that trip to Japan. So when you go there, you're not worried about how much money that costs you. Jenny says this is an excellent approach for couples if you haven't merged finances. Maybe like you pay a smaller portion of the trip, but you're responsible for like organizing everything, right, and doing all this sort of grunt work that's involved. So there are ways to balance it out that don't necessarily have to be financial. That's what happened with my Canadian spa trip. My partner's currently a stay-at-home dad and I bring in the income for our family, but he planned out the whole trip and helped us figure out what kind of trip would work best for our budget. Paying up front also helps you build in an emergency buffer fund for if something goes awry, whether that's a whole canceled flight or just needing to buy a new bathing suit because you, like me, completely forgot to bring one for your spa stay. There's always a random tranche of money, a small amount of money that's there in case something comes up that we didn't plan on. I think any sort of planning always has a cushion baked in and inevitably there's always something that's going to come up. Of course, the experts will be the first to tell you couples, money conflicts are never just about the money and prepaying won't solve all the emotional concerns that can come up around money when you're traveling with a partner. We all have our own relationship with money and I think money means something different to both couples. What they think that they're arguing about, should we do the one bedroom suite with the butler? What they're really arguing about is, do I feel guilty for spending this on us? One person's value can say, we never do anything for ourselves. Let's have a good time. Let's go to the Maldives, whatever. Let's do something that we've always dreamed about doing. The other person might say, they're running like that meme with all the calculations around them. Prepaying and having these open, honest money conversations ahead of time can go a long way when it comes to smoothing over differences in financial opinion between partners. And of course, along with prepaying comes. Pre-planning so you don't get there and you're in disagreements about how you're going to spend your time. That's Jenny. She, Marissa, and Will all agree on one major key to planning a couple's trip itinerary and we'll get to that right after the break. This message comes from WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send, spend, and receive an up to 40 currencies with only a few simple tabs. Be smart. Get WISE. Download the WISE app today or visit wis.com. Tease and seize apply. Okay. So what's that secret to a successful couple's trip itinerary, according to the experts? It's build a balance of a long time and together time. That's takeaway number three. Will says it's important to remember that different people need different amounts or versions of a long time and not to take your partner's needs personally. He's juggled this first hand. Early in our relationship was like a lot of challenging conversations because if I needed a little pullback time space, you know, my wife would be like, why don't you want to show it? It would feel very personal. 18 years later, now this is just baked into our understanding of each other and it's not personalized anymore. And we can talk about it and she gets it if I need to step back and I can just get overstimulated. So hopefully couples go into trips with a sense of that for each other. How do you get that sense? Surprise. You need to talk about it. And that does mean kindly but firmly asking for what you need, whether you're more of an introvert than your partner or you're craving more togetherness time. Here's Marissa. We forget that in the absence of these conversations, that many times we will turn it inward or we will make stories and say, my partner doesn't want to spend time with me when sometimes it's just about more effective communication. It really is more about, Hey, this is what I need. I just want to check in. I just need an hour to myself. I'm going to go do a walk. I'm going to call the parents or the kids or whomever and then I'll be back and we'll spend time together so that we're prioritizing self and us at the same time. If you like me are the hooray couples trip, let's spend all our time together partner and feel like planning solo time on a couples trip is defeating the purpose. Well, Will says, don't discount the restorative power of being alone together. Set aside some reading or journaling time when you're not having to engage, but you're still nearby, maybe even cuddling. It's like they're still quality and we're in the same room together. That's still meaningful. And there are definitely times where I feel that way where I like just being in each other's presence, even if we're not doing the same thing. Whether you're having alone time together time or alone together time, make it intentional. Marissa says to plant a few mindful you and me activities, whether creative, active or relaxing. Are you doing cooking classes? Are you doing activities together that are bonding? Like I just want to know how you are connecting while you are away or is this more of like, you know, parallel lives together? Like I'm on my phone, you're on your phone. Parents in particular might experience a cluelessness as to what activities to even plant. Maybe it's your first trip away without kids like us or maybe your kids have grown and your reacclimating. So what it's like to live as a duo. I think that that is a cue for us to know that it really has been about the kids as a priority, which is a wonderful thing. However, how can we hold these two things in balance too, that our kids get to be a priority so do ourselves and our relationship? Marissa advises couples to remember that you're not always going to have all the same trip goals or want to do the same things. It's okay for there to be different priorities because you're two different people. The expectation on these trips is not for full alignment, because the goal is not to ask your partner to be exactly like you are in vacation exactly how you are. That's compliance. We don't want relationships of compliance. She says the best thing you can do is expect that conflict will happen, but you can self-regulate and communicate when it does. That's takeaway number four. And when you do find yourself butting heads with your partner or getting triggered, check in with yourself first before trying to address something with your partner. Maybe you realize you scheduled a ton of cultural tours and your partner is not into it. Or maybe they made an offhand dig that you were spending too much time on your phone and you felt yourself start to respond with, but you're the one always on your phone. Marissa agrees that traveling with a partner can bring up a lot, but she says we shouldn't fear conflict or feel like it's a bad thing. Conflict at its best is just really two different perspectives, two different people who have needs, who really want to communicate. Something will happen. There was an expectation that was not met, something that was said, that offended, and we start to feel that energy rise in our body. When that happens, try to name the emotion to yourself first. I'm feeling something coming up for me. What is it? And I can take a breath and I can ground myself and I can start to search. What am I feeling in this moment? As I start to identify this stuff for myself, I also start to regulate my own emotion. When you are a bit more regulated and ready to bring up an issue with your partner, Marissa cautions against letting the emotions get lost in the semantics, you know, like the back and forth of you said this, I said that instead, slow the process down. Say something like, I noticed myself starting to feel annoyed by that or starting to feel upset or hurt by that. And I just want to make sure that I got it right. So the second step is clarity, because we get to clarify when we don't get it right. Most of the time we're looking for connection and reassurance in moments like that, we're wanting to find our way back to connection. Will says a great way to ensure that connection on your trip and beyond is to celebrate where you are aligned, but honor your differences. Chances are one of you is a bit more of the default planner or more anxious. Maybe the other is more spontaneous or just a show up kind of guy or gal. That could be a setting for conflict or resentment, unless we want to embrace both type of people, though, right? You know, that planner comes into it with a little bit more patience and willingness to maybe be spontaneous or maybe not have everything planned out that might stress out the more avoidant person, but also for that avoidant person, more avoidant person to like, hey, you know what, I better engage with this because this really matters to me and my partner. And I want us to have a good trip. Compromises, King, after all, you want to be coupled with and traveling with someone who doesn't approach things exactly like you do. It's part of the beauty of relationships as you get with somebody that helps you see you because they're different and they reflect your differences back to you. Simply allowing each other to be who you truly are is going to ensure you both get what you need out of this trip together. My philosophy is never forcing things to be what they're not. It really is about allowing things to be exactly as they are and just kind of lovingly holding space for it. Maybe the best part of creating and holding that space for connection while on your couples trip, it's takeaway number five. You can take it home. When your trip comes to an end, there are plenty of ways for you to bring learnings and intimacy that you've nurtured over there back over here. What a great, I think, conversation for couples to have on the way home. Like, this has been amazing. What has been the best part about this and asking each other that? Maybe on the flight or the drive home, you make a point of saying, hey, I really love that one dinner or that class or that epic whitewater rafting day we did together. While you can't go whitewater rafting every day, tap into why that activity was so fun and see how you can get a similar feeling at home. That moment where it was just us and things were quiet and there wasn't a lot going on, that was really awesome for me. I wish we could do that more often, maybe when we get home. Like, I'd like to just get in the habit of sitting out on the back porch, you know, with a glass of wine, just chilling. Maybe there's a way, a smaller way, we can make this a more regular part of our life. For parents in particular, like those of us braving our first no-kids trip as a couple, Marissa says to reflect back on the trip and ask each other, how have we changed as a couple since we've had our kids and to have like a real loving, honest conversation about that? And so, what are we doing in our daily lives and in our lives in general to create that space for us that we can continue to come back to? These lessons that we take home with us is around, what do I give myself permission on vacation that I don't in my everyday life? For whatever reason, I do believe we all give ourselves permission to relax a little bit more on vacation than we normally do otherwise. By day three, people are like very calm, like you can feel the energy shift in them. And I think that's really important. By day three of not having to do any dishes. Absolutely. I think embracing travel is like, not just an experience of what you're gonna do or how you're gonna relax, but like as cheesy as it may sound, what's it gonna reveal about how I operate in the world and how my partner operates in the world? Will says it's not only wonderful to take home the connection and intimacy you fostered on your trip, it's actually pretty essential and can have lasting positive effects for both people. We know couples that are bonded and they have a secure bond, all of the other things on their priority list, they're going to manage much more easily if they're in a safe, secure relationship. It really buffers and insulates us against the negative impacts of stress. So head home with a bit of a plan. More time together, more intention, less time on your phones, because it matters. When we came back from our couple's trip, we decided to set up our house Wi-Fi so it would automatically turn off every night to inspire us to unplug and spend some focused time together at home. So to recap, take away number one, find your why. Decide what you're both looking to get out of the trip, how you want it to feel, and plan accordingly. Take away number two, don't just pre-plan, pre-pay, because the last thing you want to be doing on your couple's trip is constant calculations. Take away number three, build a balance of alone time and together time. And hey, alone together time, so that both of your needs are met. Take away number four, self-regulate and communicate when conflict happens. That way you can speak to your partner from the heart, not from defensiveness. Take away number five, yes, you can take it home. Have a trip recap conversation with your partner and land on a few ways you can bring that connection back home long term, because it really matters for both of you. That was reporter Amelia Edelman. Hey, by the way, have you subscribed to the LifeKit newsletter yet? Every Friday you'll get even more expert advice on health and money and relationships and more, all curated by the LifeKit team. Think of it as a weekly check-in from your friends at LifeKit. Subscribe at npr.org slash LifeKit newsletter. This episode of LifeKit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is CJ Riegelan and our digital editor is Malika Gareeb. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Jimmy Kealy and Stacy Abbott. I'm Maryl Cigarra. Thanks for listening. Have fun on your trip. This message comes from Avallera. 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