Brett Hedican’s Journey From Stanley Cup To Custom Backpacks

This is iDesignLab, a podcast where creativity and curiosity meet style and design. Curator of interiors, furnishings, and lifestyles. Hosted by Tiffany Woolley, an interior designer and a style enthusiast, along with her serial entrepreneur husband Scott. iDesignLab is your ultimate design podcast where we explore the rich and vibrant world of design and its constant evolution in style and trends. Today on iDesignLab, we're joined by Brett Hedekin, a Stanley Cup champion, two-time United States Olympian and veteran of over 1,000 NHL games. But his greatest play might be off the ice. Brett is now the founder of Heddy, a customizable backpack brand built around celebrating the moments that shape who we are. From championship wins to everyday milestones, he's helping people carry their story with them. Literally. Let's dive into his journey from elite athlete to inspired entrepreneur. Welcome to the iDesignLab podcast. Today, we are excited to have Brett Hedekin joining us remotely. But Brett, who has a very long career on the ice, an Olympian, and a Stanley Cup winner, has now become creative director of his very own line, Heddy Gear. Let me add a few things about Brett. So it's two Olympic U.S. hockey teams he's played on. He's won over a thousand professional hockey, which is an amazing feat. And on top of it, he's put the Stanley Cup over his head, raised it and drank out of it because he won the Stanley Cup. As a hockey player. In the last few years, he's been a broadcaster for the San Jose Sharks, and he's still very involved in hockey. But more important and more interesting is his entrepreneurial direction that he's taken in life, and he really want to dive into having to do with his company, Heddy Gear. So welcome, Brett. Man, thank you for the introduction, Scott and Tiff. You know, you guys, I always smile when I think about you too, because we've had so many great moments together over the years. And you know, the hockey journey, as you guys referenced, you know, a long career. But through that career, you meet a lot of great people along the way. And you know, Scott, you were the first person ever met when I was traded to the Florida Panthers. I was on the plane with the team after we met the team in New York. They had played the Rangers, I believe, that night. When me and Pavel Brewery got there with the team and they said, you got to sit here on the plane. The only seat that was left was the seat next to you. And that was when our friendship started. You know, and a funny thing about that day, which is kind of a first and a last for me, was that that was the last time that I spent an evening and an afternoon with my friend, John F. Kennedy, Jr. I took him to the game. The two of us sat and watched that game. And then I got on the plane with the Panthers to fly home and met you. And it was kind of like the start of our friendship. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, just a lot of fun, you know, through the years of playing hockey and as your reference to I was really lucky to play in Olympic teams and then playing the NHL a long time and then get some broadcasting for the Sharks and now doing some work with the Anaheim Ducks. Fortunately, to try to stay around the game. I love working with players and I love the idea of trying to make guys better. And that's one of my passions as well is just trying to pay it forward. You know, I had a lot of great people helping me along the way and guiding me. And now I had the opportunity with the Anaheim Ducks and the San Diego goals are my league team to work with a bunch of young players. But yeah, my passion as well and something I started a few years ago was this headygear.com and, you know, really stemmed from a fishing trip I went on and we can get into that. But yeah, you can see my patches and some of my bags behind me. It's been a lot of fun to kind of do something that's outside my comfort zone. You know, clearly it was an athlete wasn't an entrepreneur. Here I am trying to do, you know, stay in the game of hockey, but yet also trying to be an entrepreneur. Right. Designing a new business that you had never done before. So where did the idea originate from? Well, let's explain what the idea is. Yeah, absolutely. Because I've always since the day you first told me, I thought it was a fantastic idea. Taking your memories and the things that you know you love about your life and you want to remember about your life and carrying them with you by putting them onto a backpack or a bag that you take with you as you travel through life. Yeah, it happened about eight years ago and I go on an annual fishing trip with some of my best buds. And we go up to Canada and we drive, it's about a six hour drive in a van and then we cross the Canadian American border, drive another 30 minutes. The float plane's waiting there for us. We get on the float plane and we take it to my buddy's house. And the one year I was on to do something special for this group and I went and got these kind of tactical looking backpacks. I brought them to a guy in downtown St. Paul, Minnesota, and I had him put Velcro on the front panels and the side panels. And then I went and got their name tape created. If they ever caught a 40 inch muskie, it's a big fish. Not really good looking fish, but these fish that we catch. If they ever caught a 40 inch muskie, I got a patch for that and I put it on their bag. I went and found every guy's college that they went to, you know, put that on their bag. I created a 50 inch muskie patch that I gave to Greg, whose house we go to. And I said, Greg, you're the only guy that can pass out these patches. If a guy catches a 50 inch muskie that night at dinner, you get to present him with a patch. But over the years, I would collect patches in the winter months. So getting ready for the summer annual fishing trip, I would have all these patches in my pocket ready to go. And at dinner, if a guy did something special, caught a special fish or whatever, I would present them with something that was special or significant in their life that I would do a little research on. My one buddy takes his father to the Indianapolis 500 every year and I found this really nostalgic Indianapolis 500 patch. And while he caught the biggest fish that day and I presented it with him, I presented that patch to him at dinner. And so over the years of, you know, seven years, eight years of doing this, each of these backpacks kind of became a story of every guy's kind of life and moments that they've had in their life. And that's kind of where the business sparked. I took a photo with all these backpacks laying there next to the float plan and that's kind of where that idea of, man, I think we've got something here as a business and here I am. That's so exciting. So now how many patches do you have because you have so many different categories, I mean, from sports and tell us more about that. Yeah, so I think the one thing I've been trying to accumulate here over the little while is licenses, you know, and so I was fortunate enough, you know, being an NHL player, went to the NHL told him my idea. And so my patches are not iron on there actually have Velcro sewn on the back and all my backpacks have the loop Velcro, the soft Velcro. The hook is on the hook patch Velcro is on the patch and the loop Velcro is on the bag and those two are just being able to marry each other and you can take the patches off and move them around and those patches once they're on your bag they don't come off. I've traveled around the world with my backpack and never have lost one but the NHL licenses one that I have. I have now also accumulated two of the college, you know, holding companies one is called the CLC college licensing company and they have hundreds of universities that they take care of their licensing program. And then exemplar is another one that I have Boston College as one of my universities but those are two of the licenses I have now I'm working on more having great conversations with you know the NBA and others and you know trying to over time keep acquiring licenses to be able to put on my bags. Right but besides sports you also have like state parks you have music and you have so many other categories correct. Yeah, you know I think the one category and you mentioned national parks and destinations got destinations from all around the world. It's been fun to kind of give my kids destinations that they've traveled to Scotland and Ireland and places. You know my daughter was in a play over at the French festival in Scotland it was neat to present her with a patch of Scotland that she had been there but we also carry these miniature flags, which are really fun where you know the more countries you've been to you can put these little miniature flags on your bag and you know represent all the places that you've gone to and had experiences in. Okay so now you've had this fishing trip and you've been collecting all these patches and this little idea and this business is born. What was your first steps. Man I you know that's I know you guys are entrepreneurial and you know the steps and Scott and somebody like you. You have that blueprint in your brain but for me it was okay. I kind of looked at it as like a little bit in my hockey career where you just got to start putting one foot in front of the other. What's the first thing I need to do well first thing I have to think about is how I'm going to create these bags and where I'm going to manufacture them and then how many create patches where am I going to go manufacture that and you start kind of reaching out to people you know and you know different manufacturing companies that you can kind of track down and that's kind of where the journey started to see okay is this possible for me to start doing this and then once that starts to happen and you start to think about man I think I can do this I think I can manufacture product. Then it's you know logo it's it's all these other things that are going to come about and then there's this one moment that you know you start getting all your product in and you're still scared on whether or not you're going to launch this darn thing and you get people around you to say Brett you got to go for it now is the time and and that was the day that you know I had somebody inspire me to say just hit the switch let's turn the website on and go for it and we'll kind of make it happen and and but it took a couple years to get to that point tiff. Okay. And as you know it takes time to manufacture product so it doesn't happen overnight but eventually launched it and you know end of 2023 I guess. So how do people is it mainly website driven is that where people go to purchase or are you available in stores are there pop up shops what's the sales drive. Yeah so currently we are online so at headygear.com that's my website. We're also selling Amazon we sell on Target Walmart. We've sold on Timu so we're on a lot of those platforms. We're also in college bookstores we've we know we've we've got about 25 college university licenses at this point and we're working on more of the bookstores currently as we speak we've we probably in eight stores right now in college bookstores and working on more. We do have some retail locations as well tiff so these are areas that we continue to try to grow love to be able to be in more locations and that's kind of my goal here in 2026. But it's a great inspirational story and what you're talking about you know coming from a world of sports your your whole life you know and training for that and then waking up one day saying I'm going to start creating this line of bags and you know then launching that business. And like you said you know continually pushing forward even though you don't really know where and how to get it all done. Yeah I think I can lean on some of the things that I did in my hockey career Scott and you know there was lots of moments that I had where you fail and you. You have to go back to the drawing board and you have to think OK if I didn't win the Stanley Cup this year or I had a difficult season. You know the only place you need to look is in the mirror. Yep. And you need to kind of start to think OK where are the areas that I am weak and you have to give yourself honest feedback and sometimes that honest feedback isn't fun. And as you know you know it's hard to kind of look at your own warts and your own things that you have within your own game or your own personality or whatever those things are and try to address them. And as I did that with my hockey career and I wasn't afraid of doing that and I had enough humility and so for me humility means that you don't have all the answers. And so that's where I kind of was able to do that throughout my career and go back to the drawing board and over time in my hockey career you start putting yourself in good situations to win. And eventually as you mentioned earlier we won in Carolina in 2006 but when I raised the cup over my head it was like holy cow and literally the cup is over my head and I'm thinking to myself I was right. I was right to keep going. I was right to try to keep trying to get better. I was right to not give up on myself and in leaning to others that gain support from friends and family and make those calls sometimes to have people pick me up. I was right to just not ever stop trying to get better and so you know with that knowledge of going through that journey Scott I think that's kind of what I've tried to apply to business. No one that I don't have all the answers and that I can keep going back to the drawing board and looking at myself in ways and reaching out to people to make me a better businessman. So obviously being an Olympian and also having you know the hockey career that you had there's a lot of routine and a lot of repetition and a lot of hard work and perseverance. How do you balance that now in your entrepreneurial role. Well it's yeah your time is is valuable and you have to respect your sleep. You know you have to know that you do have to spend time every day you know I do a lot of work on for the hockey team too and that's really a priority as well. And so managing my time you know my spare time knowing that I can spend on the business and then surrounding my team my business team has been fun to kind of reach out to people to help me with with all the little nuances of my business to if that can take care of things that you know are things that aren't my strength Right and they can take it over delegate delegate and making sure that people are doing the things that you want them to do and and then you know really support your team you know being positive about your business. And so you know that you're doing the things that you want them to do with your team and making sure that they know you're here for them when when they need you. So when you started this and you can and you had the idea of doing this. I look at it from a perspective is that you jumped into a lot of things that you probably didn't have experience in manufacturing creating a website figuring out how to like you said come up with these and find these patches the licensing to the patches the pricing and putting the pricing all together. And then the ship I mean there's so many aspects that you had to learn. I mean was that overwhelming. It was that you know did you take one at a time that any of that deter you from wanting to go forward with this. Yeah it's you're right when you when you start to piece it all together and all the things that you have to accomplish. Man there's a lot there right and and Scott you know I mean being an entrepreneur and if you know being an entrepreneur and your own business as well. There's a lot to tackle. But if I were to look back at where I ended my career and if I would have given up because of all of the things I would have had to learn to do what we did in 2006 and win a cup. What I have kept going had I known how difficult it was going to be. And I think you know learning that lesson and knowing that you don't have all the answers and that you're going to have a lot of things that you have to learn is something that I did learn through my hockey career and playing through some tough moments and again going back to the drawing board so many different times. But Scott it's it has been intimidating at times and and if they answer your question as far as time and how do you manage it. There has been moments where you get a little overwhelmed and then I just try to breathe you know just try to slow down try to enjoy life a little bit knowing that sometimes it's it's you have to let your hands off the wheel and you got to trust the people around you and let them do what they do. And then also you know believe that everything is going to work out if you keep your head pointed in the right direction and doing the right things and I think sometimes doing the right things is just being positive. Absolutely around you. So as you dove into this new you know entrepreneurial part with Heddy Gear what is the most satisfying part for you. Is it like seeing the new patches. Is it seeing the branding come together. What where does the most gratification come. Well I was in an airport in San Jose and I saw this young kid with one of my back. That's huge. And I saw the patches on it and he was so proud. I went over and introduced myself to him. I said how do you like your backpack and he didn't know who I was at the time yet. And he was all he just was so positive about the backpack and he loves it. And I said well I'm I'm Hedy I'm the guy that started the company. Oh and actually you know we took a photo and so forth. But you know I think my goal is to know that you know if I anywhere you go around the world someday and you see a backpack with patches on it. I want people to say oh that's a heady pack. Yeah that's a heady back. That's one of those ones where you can put patches on it. And so that's gratifying for me is seeing my backpack out in the wild. I get photos all the time Tiff of people you know Mount Fuji they climb out. And they had my backpack with them. That's crazy. Yeah and just special places that people and gathering moments in their life and that they send me photos from all around the world is has been really gratifying. So do you have a Mount Fuji patch. I am working on a Mount Fuji patch. Scott I think that's exciting for me to think about all the places in the patches I still yet to accomplish and get them into the store. But you know we will continue to grow hopefully as as I continue to truck along here. I mean it's limitless with the how many. It really is limitless. I mean you could even have upload images people to the site and you know create them and all that good stuff. Yeah we create custom patches for people. OK. And teams we worked with lots of different teams that call us and say you know we really love to make a five year 10 year 15 20 25 year employee patches. So that's five patches right there. We want to do a team logo. We want to inspire. We have a saying that we want to utilize and lean into this year for the year. Can we create a patch for that. And so we'll put this whole program together for companies and you know I think when I look at my backpack there's a couple of patches. Well they're all of them mean something to me. But there's a couple that really are the ones that set me on a course in my life that that it taught me what a team looks like. There's the patch from 1994 Stanley Cup Finals patch. We lost lost in Game 7. It's a it's kind of a painful moment when you don't win you get all the way to the end in Game 7 you lose. But what I felt in those moments of 1994 and that patch and what it means it was one of the greatest teams that ever felt from the inside. And the support that every guy gave one another. There was a reason why we had success. And when I see that patch it reminds me of that feeling that feeling and what teamwork looks like. And so you know that's why I like doing custom patches for people and teams and why we're capable of doing some really fun things to inspire people to keep doing amazing things. So how many backpacks do you offer now or bag styles. We offer six bag. Oh yeah sorry Tiff we offer six backpacks and I'm working on two new ones and I'll grab them. This is a. Oh that's a good I see where you're going with that. So this is a kind of a fanny pack. Yeah. We've just recently worked on and these will be coming out fairly soon. Yeah. And then we also we also did like a cross body like this that comes in on the body comes this way. So. Another bag that we're working on so total it'll be it'll be eight bags when those are in stock. So do you see more coming more styles more types of bags. Yeah I hope so Scott I think that's the area that I need to improve styles that are will really resonate with with the people today. And I think we're doing a decent job. I know that's an area that I want to continue to improve upon and you know business development is something that I want to you know get the right people on board my team to help me continue to grow and in the in the bag area for sure. Yeah so there's another title you could put to your name designer. Well yeah you're a designer because you're designing bags you're designing patches. You know you've designed this new business you know so there's a creative side to it not just the business side to it you know that you've you've dove into and it's extremely creative what you have put together here. I mean the design behind it all the idea behind it all you know and it's letting people really design their life you know taking what the design of their life and put it on to something they're going to carry with them. And show off it's showing off the design of their life. Well it is when when you carry one of my backpacks or bags around even an airport or travel around the world you're going to get stopped. People are going to come and ask you what you know what the patches mean and there's definite it's a story that just continues to open you know that every person's got their own story everybody's got their own journey. And I think when we're on that journey it's the moments that we've learned on how to do something and or a moment that never changed your life forever when you travel to a certain destination that you never will forget that. And you'll never and life will never be the same afterwards right these are the things that we stand for but it's your right Scott designer could be added to the title but. You know I think again the humility of not knowing all the answers and trying to continue to get better is one of the things I continue to lean on. So do you still carry that first heady backpack or in your fishing crew do they still have the same one or have they evolved and then do you just move the patches. They a lot of them have kept the very first backpack that I created but they all have one of my heady packs to so they utilize both for sure. Yeah they have been I think they've because they fell in love with that very first one that I ever created for them. It's it's been hard to separate from that. So question have you thought about it a duffel bag or you know I think about this because we before we started this podcast we were talking about music and our girls and so forth excuse me. Well you have the meet bags for music equipment. Yeah a guitar bag I mean I just think of our kids with their guitar bags going out. I've already created samples for a duffel bag. I've already created samples for an electric and acoustic guitar. Oh you're having a good. Yeah I've already got those ready to go and they're they're really cool. You know I think once we start maybe Sweetwater or Guitar Center or something like that that I could you know create a relationship with that we could do patches that could go on there. I mean you think about all the rock concerts that people go to and I feel like you know my company we've always kind of referenced it as we're across between a letter jacket and a guitar key. Right. We're somewhere in between there where you know these different moments of guitar rock bands that you've either seen or yeah back each passes that you have that are on your your guitar case to the letter jacket that you've had accomplishments. So we're I think we're somewhere in between there Scott but yeah I do have samples for all of those things and you know hopefully we can we can start manufacturing those someday when we get the right relationships built. So as the heady gear continues to grow who who is the best at putting your message out there. I mean obviously your story is great but is it social media. Is it aligning yourself with you know cross promotion. We kind of talk about that a lot here too just how you know social media is such a huge way of getting the brand awareness out there. Yeah we've we've done a lot of work in that social media arena Tiff I'd say you know Instagram Facebook Google ads. We've we've also tried to work with Amazon as well working with the National Hockey League and even some of the universities we work with influencers in college. I know the the whole college environment now with the NIL and working with college athletes in general is a new landscape that people are learning but you know for all the bookstores that we're in and some of the campuses we've tried to find you know five to eight athletes within a campus to be able to support their journey give them a back. Brand ambassador type of thing. Yes exactly brand ambassadors that we've worked with with some of these universities been really fun not only for them to carry my bag and to utilize the patches and be able to represent the university but also to kind of start to learn who these athletes are and and and follow them a little bit on their journey and as we follow them on social media so that's been a really fun thing for me to being an athlete and a student athlete and what it takes to be able to keep all those things together. What you had referenced before to have an asking me the question as far as time you know I almost feel like student athletes are are so focused because they have to be. They can't be out doing all a lot of other things you know partying all those other things because you got they got to study they've got to get to class they've got to work out they've got to get the practice and before you know what you become this really regiment and person that can get a lot of things done so we love student athletes and the way they are committed to their sport. So that's really who you guys align with primarily right now. Yeah I'd say that's what we're aligning with right now but I think I'd love to lean into you more to have. You know I think you're you guys are so good at this stuff and you know why I love talking to you guys even not on the podcast I mean I love talking to you guys in general. Right now what are some of the things you guys are doing to help you guys as business grow and I'm always willing to learn. So do you go to any conferences that you know that are about entrepreneurship that you found helpful. Yes I am we have I have been working with somebody here in San Diego you know helping me just become use a lot better. Wow when you're a small company you know teaching your people how to use AI is something that I think is extremely important because you can make yourself bigger than you are. You can you can add 10 employees by just using the truth. Yes it's been phenomenal to kind of learn how I can utilize that more deeply. Yeah we do do some conferences as well. I know we just were in the sports licensing show and tailgating show in Vegas. CamX is coming up and we're going to also go that's for the college bookstores. So I know my team is is ready to do those expos but overall you know it's again I think learning how to continue to grow and be bigger than we are right now as a company. And knowing that at one point we're we're going to just you know you hope you just take off. So where do you like what is your goal set for the future. I mean do you see a brick and mortar or like what would be the you know the next like pinnacle. Yeah brick and mortar would be terrific. I think if if you walked into a you know target let's say or Walmart during school before you know back to school time and you you have an opportunity to buy a backpack. That's plain or you have an opportunity to buy a backpack. And you've got the opportunity to embellish it with different patches and different inspiring quotes or whatever that might look like. That would be something that I could see moving forward. I'd love to be able to be in a in a sporting goods store where you walk in there and you you know you want to have the Minnesota Timberwolves you want to have the Minnesota Wild and then you want to have the Minnesota Vikings and the Minnesota Twins all on your backpack. Kids just don't want one logo on their backpack anymore. Absolutely. Yeah I see us in both of those arenas Tiff. I would love to be so exciting. Yeah that's that's really where I target concept for back to school is really cool. What about a Olympic crossover to with with the Olympics coming to California and your backyard and your history there. I would absolutely love to be involved with the Olympic team particularly the United States team and and or the you know Olympic Committee in general. I think that connection with you know the country with your teammates you know your number. And there's so many things that we can do inspiring things that they can remind themselves that is on their bag you know leadership patches that you can put on your bag. There's there's just so many things we could do but that would be a terrific bridge over Tiffany you know to be able to do that you know connect connect that with the Olympic Committee. Let's go back to the beginning when you first started this for a minute. Did when you came up with this idea and you started talking to friends and people and so forth to help or to get information. Did you face any skepticism. You know one of my good buddies Greg Gardner who's had some success like you Scott in business. I know I was skeptical of myself. I was thinking OK how am I going to do this and reaching out to Greg. I'm like Greg you want to help me. Nope you've got this. And I think I asked him once and then I asked him one more time he says nope you got this. And I think hearing that no twice was enough for me to kind of get punched in the nose and to know that OK sometimes you just got to believe in yourself. And I think that's been one of the things I've had to do through this process is know that you're you know you're not going to be able to do that. You know you've got to be able to believe and invest in you. Well that's something that you clearly have known for since you were young. I mean to keep up you know the the intensity that you had to maintain to in your youth to become as successful and hockey. You know that's definitely something you live by. Yeah there was many moments one that comes to mind is freshman in college. I was recruited to be a forward in college but I was never played forward the position in my life. And so as a as a freshman being in the position that I never played before I was in and out of the lineup. And I wasn't and the nights I wasn't playing on a weekend. I was up in the corner of the building hitting the play button on the cassette player to be able to play music on the intercom during the game. And so literally you go from that as a freshman to walking in the coach's office after the season saying listen coach I know you recruited me as a forward but I've never played the position in my life. Give me a chance at defense and he says you know come back next year as a defenseman we'll see how it goes. I think you know years later he I asked him about that and he said yeah I thought I was going to cut you off the team your sophomore year but I came back made the team as a defenseman had a really good solid sophomore year and that's when I took off my junior year as a defenseman and I guess the rest is history but there was moments like that throughout my career that I had to continue to believe in myself. Even when the kind of the chips were against me and there are moments where I could have quit quit on myself but I didn't and I think learning those lessons early in life have now helped me as well as being an entrepreneur. I love that. So where do you think that growing up in St. was it St. Paul Minnesota. Yep that's it. So do you think that those were the you know the values instilled back then. I think watching my parents you know both work a couple of jobs you know as me for as a kid my dad had a job but he was also a volunteer fireman so I grew up with in the middle of the night you hear this. You know this this alarm going off which was his pager that would wake him up where he'd have to get up and get down to the fire department downtown North St. Paul and he'd have to go fight a fire he was also a paramedic for a while. My mom had a couple of jobs that she had as well and so them working as hard as they did through my youth. I just watched them give me the opportunities that I was afforded to have because of their hard work. Right. And so I think you know watching them do that is instilled a lot of work ethic in myself. I hope I hope I can be as hardworking as they were you know when when I was growing up and I really always appreciate my parents for for what they did for me to give me the opportunity and the things I was able to do. So you currently probably you have hundreds of patches thousands. Do you know how many you have at this moment. Yeah we've got about 900 patches. 900 so that's probably going to continue to keep growing exponentially I would think. Yeah. Is there one patch right now that you have that kind of sticks out for you that you know then and then all the rest is there one that's more meaningful to you. Yeah you know there's there's this one that trip Tracy from the Carolina Hurricanes he's the color commentator who does the commentary for the Keynes and he created a patch called dig in and I got that on my bag. And I guess for me dig in just means again that you get to these moments that you want to just you don't have the answer and you want to give up or you doubt yourself and you know you just some days you just got to say look I just I'm just going to dig in. I'm going to take one step today and I'm going to take one step after I take that step and then I'm going to keep moving forward. And with that process it reminds me some days just to know that you know this could be a day that you just going to have to dig in. That's a great one actually. I love that. So for the patches and in the designing process of all these patches is there a certain size that you seem to stay within or is there something that could be too small too big. Yeah I try to use that three inch. Okay. So I'm going to give you a little bit of a thermometer you know tiff just to be able to know that if it's anywhere around that three inch. So let's say it's lengthwise it might be a little bit longer and then maybe with it might be a little bit more narrow. So but overall the three inches really I think a sweet spot for us. And typically on the bags you have how many patches can you fit on a bag. 15 sometimes more depends how big they are. So for some of my bags you probably wouldn't be able to get that many maybe like eight to ten. But a lot of the backpacks I have the loop Velcro panels all on the front and then also on both sides. So you can you can do patches on all three of the four sides Scott. So it gives you an opportunity to really embellish and be able to customize and personalize the backpack and the bag. Have you been able to kind of quantify or notice or see people who have been buying patches how many they're typically buying if they're really into the bag and changing. Yeah a lot of times we'll get a purchase of a backpack and a lot of times they'll get two to three you know patches to start. Yeah if I wonder too. Yeah and I think moving forward Scott we're going to be doing that a lot more as far as packaging backpacks with two patches to start where you get those included in the sale of the backpack or the bag. I think anytime you can just get a customer kind of going in that direction it'll bring them back for more and that's that's what we'll be focusing on 2026. And where do you see most people picking patches is there a particular category that people seem to be more interested in displaying. I think the license patches are the ones that are really most popular the college the collegiate and the NHL. And the miniature flags I think are the ones that really sell the most of I think right behind that is the National Parks. And we've worked with a great partner from Canada that we get some of our National Park patches from which has been exciting. And then you know maybe the destination and music patches are the ones that are really behind those but really the license patches are probably the most popular. So when you say flags is what you said? Miniature yeah I've got the miniature. So are these the flags of the countries or states? Country flags and state flags too Scott. Well like they are all part of making the notations on the bag of who's the beholder basically all the things people identify with. So the current bag that you're carrying what's on your bag? What's on my bag? Yeah you're currently carrying. Can I go grab it? Yeah yeah grab it because that'd be interesting. See how much hockey related it might be or is it destination okay. Oh there it is. We were just saying while you were getting it is it more hockey related is it more destination related. Okay so this is my current bag and there you see my big end. There's your dig in I love that one. Stanley Cup. This is my 1994 pass that I referenced earlier. Yep. I had to keep on my bag and then on this side you know clearly I have the USA Canada love Canada's I lived there for for the Canucks for a while. Olympic. My Olympic patch and then here's my St. Cloud my Stanley Cup NHL and then also the 2006 Cup team but on the front these are special too so about seven years ago I started doing some martial arts in Kung Fu in Alamo California and so this is their logo that I created these patches for them. This is the 50 inch musky patch that is only awarded to somebody that catches the fish. That's right obviously the Kung Fu. I created these patches for our fishing trip last year. The guys I awarded every after every night I gave a guy a patch and this is the patch I gave so we call it life 360 our group up there that fishes because you know we we have the five days a year that we spend fishing together and then we can't wait when it ends for the 360 days to go by to that. So that's so cute. That's what makes me 60 means and then these are just flags that all mean something to me up on top so there's my heady pack. There's your heady pack I love it. So you have two daughters what are their heady packs resemble? You know music, dance, school, their college logo they've got one of those on their bags as well so they've just been chipping away at adding little memories and some of the miniature flags that they've been able to hit some of the countries over the last couple years as well. So you've got patches basically for any age group? Yes. Yeah it's been fun Scott is people say you know who's your customer man. If I could pinpoint our customer to one segment or age group I don't think I can. I think we've had companies, we've had businesses, we've had teams from all different types of walks of life if you will. Students from college to grade students you know six graders to even younger. So I'm really excited about you know really the breath of customer that we do have and I don't know if I could really pinpoint it yet. So what's the typical price point for bags from like high and low? Our base camp model is $45 to $50 and then we go we have several bags around that $70 mark and then our top of the line bag is what we call our summit and that's $119. Yes so that's a great price compared to bags that you know. It's competitive pricing for sure. And then typically what is the patches cost to an individual? Yeah like the miniature flags are around the $7 mark Scott and then our license patches go from you know $14, $13 in that range to sometimes $15 for some of the HL license patches. Our destinations and national parks are around 11 or 12 so you know you can get a lot of great moments on your bag you know that to get you started for sure that keep you in range. So an individual or a company or a team that would like to have their own patch made what's the time frame for that patch to be made and they could have it? Well the one thing I recommend with people when they send our team a design is you know to have the logo it have edges around like some sort of shape. And in the beginning? From that point yeah once I have you know my team has a shape or the size of the patch that we can agree on it's sent to the factory. My team then produces a sample and then within probably four days we give the customer the sample to approve once it is approved it takes about three weeks to really get the patch manufactured and then be able to ship it to the customer. And all the patches are embroidered? Yes all of the patches are embroidered and all of the patches come with the velcro sewn in the back of the patch so it can be just applied to our loop velcro bags immediately. So it's not just a silk thing? No ironing or no sewing on the patch onto the bag it just is placed on the bag and then you're able to you know pull it off and remove it and put it somewhere else on the bag if you wanted to but yeah our patches are made to be applied right to the backpack and bag immediately. Right so the consumer can move the patches around whatever they want however they want they can change them every day if they wanted. That's right that's what's fun and you can trade them you know you can trade them with a friend. You can pack a patch that you like or that you want from a friend and they've got one of yours that they want and you can just pull it off and you can trade with a friend and put it on your bag immediately but yeah you can move them anytime you want Scott that's what's exciting. Yeah I could see down the road you having commemorative special patches with their limited edition where you're only making say 500 of a particular patch and those 500 people the only 500 people in the world that have it. If you want to get it well then you got to try to put it in an auction or see if you can buy it from someone. That's right yeah we did that for the first time. We were at the World Junior Championships this last just about a month ago and we were able to do a collector's edition World Junior patch and it turned out great. I think people really responded well to it and we our team sold a lot of that patch which is exciting to see and now they can go to the website they can put their name their email address and register the patch because each one had its own serial number. That's so cool. Yeah this is something we're just starting to kind of get more into our team and hoping Scott that we'll do a lot more of it in the future for sure. How often do people come to you to request a new patch design? I would think that's. We have people to have sending us notes a lot saying hey we would really love a Sanrio patch. We really want you know and by all means we'd love to be able to make some of these patches but these a lot of the ones that people are requesting are ones that require a license. Okay. So that's where we have to manage the opportunity to get the license to then acquire that to then be able to make the patch with Velcro. So we as we continue to grow as a company will continue to acquire more licenses and have more you know license brands on our website that we're able to sell. And then when you coordinate by having a licensed brand do you have to give them payment like a fee? Yes all of the you know licenses that we acquire they come with an advance. Yeah. Pardon me. Royalties. Yeah well there's two things you have to pay in advance first to be able to acquire the license. Yep. And that advance then is every time you sell a patch it kind of works against the royalty and at some point you'll pay the royalty all the way back that you've already advanced them and then you'll have to pay a percentage of every sale after that moment. So interesting. It's yeah it's their way that the the brand or the license or that say the NHL or the CLC and every college and university is different. Sometimes you have a smaller fee for a smaller school and a larger fee for a more popular school that you have to pay in advance yearly and then you you know you hopefully make all that money back and then some within every advance that you have to pay out for a licensed patch. But yeah there's there's fees to that Scott and that's why and then the relationship that you have to acquire the license as well. Right well that's like a whole business in itself from what you're doing when you're getting into licensing that's a whole nother art of negotiating and a whole nother art of business that you've incorporated into what you've put together that actually makes it a little bit more difficult than your average business and just manufacturing and then going and selling a product so there's a lot to say what you've gotten yourself into and have accomplished. Yeah huge growth opportunity as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well you're right Scott and if it's been a that's a huge learning curve when it comes to licensing and to be able to navigate those waters to be able to contact the right people to be able to acquire the licenses. It is a whole separate business that you have to be able to be ready for for sure. Well it's it's also is whoever that licensee is it's them having the credibility or they're believing in you that you're going to handle their license properly. So there's a lot you know of a relationship that needs to be built of trust. That is you're absolutely right. I mean you you must know a little bit about licensing Scott I'm sure you do and that whole part of working with the brand to be able to them to trust your company to be able to build it in a way where not only represents their brand the right way but then also that you'll produce enough sales for them to make it worthwhile for them to give you the license to be able to sell the patch. So a lot to that relationship that has to go on and a lot of trust as well. Yeah. So with hockey being such a huge part of your life and a huge obviously focal for your career. Do you ever see this becoming a full time effort. I do. I do someday see this being a full time effort and something that I would love to see this business take that next step. And I yeah to find that's that's the goal. And where would you base out of have you thought of that or is there a certain area that leans you know pulls weight more than another. You've spent a good part of your life in Minnesota. Then you've spent a long time in Northern California. Now you're I say a short period of time in Southern California. But then you've also North Carolina Florida you know Canada you know places that you live because of Korea. Is there a place that would be home destination that you'd love to kind of end up at. Have you thought about that. I haven't even kind of crossed that bridge yet but I'm enjoying San Diego right now. I think I love this area. I'm downtown here and it's just been a great place to live. I think right now this will be home base for a while and still obviously I love being back in Minnesota and the summers as well. But the most part I think I think the San Diego will be my home base for now. But it doesn't really matter with that business way you could be correct. No there's no no reason why I have to stay in California here or you know where I've got to be I can be anywhere at this point. But yeah the hockey part and the passion there Tiffany is still something that's inside me and still wanted to give back there. But there there hopefully is going to be a moment where it'll be you know to see if you really see if this business can turn out to be something that you've got to go all in. So when you say that this business can turn out to be something quite frankly I look at it and hear you and what I've seen you do with it over the last few years is it's become something it is something. I mean at what point do you are you going to say OK now I've really gotten to where I want to be with this. Is there something in your mind where you think that I think there's so much growth here available still. And I think there's such a big runway to continue to see where this company can go. I don't know when that moment will be of man I can look back and say wow I think this is exactly where I had imagined it. I think going back to Tiff's question earlier and where we can see this in different stores and different brick and mortar is really that goal of mine some day where people really want to have a backpack that has more meaning to it than just a plain backpack and having it in stores where you can do that. That will be a moment for me when those things are happening and we're starting to see you know backpacks walking around in the wild. All over the place that that have patches and on them that tell a story. So for people listening or watching to this podcast where do they go purchase their first heady. I would say headygear.com would be the best spot to come so it's just H E D I like yeti except for the nature here dot com and you'll see the website. It's a great website and you'll be able to you know find your backpack find your patch kind of get your story started. It's probably the best place to start Scott. Okay well Brett always a pleasure to talk with you and spend time together and it's been fun to watch this grow and evolve and you know look forward to going to target one day and creating our backpack. We're seeing it in target. Yeah I would love that too. Oh Tiff and Scott I really appreciate your guys' time. I miss you guys. I can't wait to see you down in Florida sometime soon. Well we hope it's real soon. Thank you. Tell your daughters I miss playing guitar with them. The same goes I'll say back to you. Yeah exactly. You're part of the inspiration that got them going when you you know two or three times you came and played with them. I really like love that kind of camaraderie of playing with someone else and they have referred back to the videos that I took back then numerous times. Wow yeah yeah I always looked forward to coming into Florida when I was with doing the broadcast. I know I know that was fun. And then being able to come over to your house and being able to play guitar and we were we'd play guitar and your daughter would play the drums and then your other daughter play the piano and then we'd have everything going at the same time and playing music but it's fun to see how far they've all come since then and the music that they're creating and I can't wait to see where it ends up going for them. Well thanks for spending the time with us on the iDesign Lab. Well thank you for having me Scott and Tiffany it's always great to talk to you. Thank you bye bye bye bye bye bye. iDesign Labs podcast is an SW group production in association with the five star and TW interiors. To learn more about iDesign Lab or TW interiors please visit TWinteriors.com.