JT, what up yo? From Park Hill to the streets of Staten Island to the top of the hip hop mountain. Now Hollywood's storyteller, he's the architect behind one of the most influential groups of music history. The creator of the most expensive album ever sold, over 40 million records. Wu Tang is forever a true original. Zigzag, bomb bomb. Let's welcome in the RZA. What's up RZA? Peace, what up yo? Good morning. We're depending on what you're at. Good morning, good afternoon, whatever. Good morning bro, it's our Jim Tree. How you holding? I'm holding pretty good man. This is what they're calling one of your most ambitious projects yet. This new film, One Spoon of Chocolate, it's hitting theaters this weekend. You've been putting in a lot of work here for this film. I'm excited to see it. Yeah, yo, this film is bold, bro. B-O-L-D. But it's done that way to make every emotion in your body feel something. You know what I mean? We got a great cast. We are, it's an action thriller. You will be on the edge of your seat, yo. I saw the trailer, a lot of kung fu action, a lot of fighting scenes. What's harder, making a classic album or making a feature film? Oh, a film is, I mean, technically a film is harder, right? Because the process, you know, art itself is always going to be a challenge. But with the album, the amount of collaboration could be, let's say for Wu-Tang Clan, maybe you're dealing with 10, 12, 14 people if you bring in some musicians, right? But for a film, nah, this film we probably had 20 people on staff, you know what I mean? So a film is like almost running a small country for a few months, you know what I mean? It takes a lot of mind power in all reality and a lot of coordination and collaboration. So now to make it a classic, that's why my answer is funny because you don't know what's a classic, you feel it, but the people got to decide it, right? But what I do feel about this film, and after we played it last night in New York City, people are saying that this film is an instant classic. But they got to say that, I can't say it, you know what I mean? The main character unique in this film kind of carries the spirit of ODB. What is it about old dirty bastard that was so unique that could never be replaced in Wu-Tang? He just was like living life itself, right? So it was nothing robotic about him, right? You ever noticed, like you listen to ODB's album, he has a song, two different songs on the album, but he says the same lyrics. But yet it don't sound the same. So he's that equation that always keep evolving. That was his energy. And of course he was my cousin, and not even my Wu-Tang brother, but my blood family, and I just had so much of him and me that was combined growing up that even though he left us physically over 20 years ago now, it's been that long, spiritually he's always in us. He's always in me. And when I wrote this screenplay, I started writing it in 2011. But even in 2011 when I first wrote it, I started writing it, I named the character unique. And it could be me wishing I could see him again, and running around and doing the shit we do, and then recognizing his superhero abilities. You know, it could be some of that, that backdrops it. But yeah, his spirit is definitely in this film. And I think that his superhero, if he was to be a superhero, here he is right now, Shamik Moore as unique and one spoon of chocolate. That's amazing. And another face I saw that I recognized when I watched the trailer was Paris Jackson. And you're going up against his dad in the theaters this weekend. So maybe Paris could get one up on her pops. But what does she, she's a very great artist. I see her writing music, creating music, and acting. So very talented. She's very talented. She really came to this film and really blessed us with her presence. She really embodies the character. She's a total professional. It's beautiful that her father's story is in theaters now. We all are fans of Michael Jackson and what he brought to the world. It's almost magical that his movie is in theaters and her movie comes in theaters. It wasn't planned that way. Life does what it does. But I think there's something special about that. And I think there's a, there should be like a heavenly pride going on. You know what I mean? Like, like his, you know, Michael Jackson's daughter is doing music and doing film. I think that's incredible, y'all. Yeah. He's got to be proud of her when he sees this film. I know you know, steal, sharpen, steal. And when I look at your relationship with Quentin Tarantino, it feels like your guys' swords are just sharpening each other as this relationship has evolved. How has this relationship pushed you as a filmmaker with Quentin? I mean, it's the best relationship that, that, that, that, you know, any student can have. I was a student of his. He has now said the student is a master. So I don't, you know, so which is, and this, and this particular product will show that. But, you know, he's one of the smartest guys you could ever meet when it comes to cinema. He's a very pure, outspoken tool. Like, you know, he's going to say it. That's what he, he's not going to add no lactose to it. You know what I mean? It's going to be pure. And because of, because of that, and our, and our communication, our relationships, we could keep it 100% real with each other. And he loves this film. He loves, he loves the way that it came out. He's rooting for it. And as an executive producer, he wants the audience to know that this is approved. Like, you know what I mean? This is past his test. You know what I mean? He has a very unique taste of film and he creates very uniquely. And I've been, you know, able to bend the guy that sat there at the doorstep and watch, watch, watch him. And, and, and that was the blessing for me. Cause I didn't go to film school. I didn't go to college for this. I was actually taught by a master. And it took me years to get to here. But when you see this new film, I think you'll see that it exists in the Tarantino's world even like some of the things that happened in his films happen here in the Rizzo way, though. And it's, you know, it's my own thing. It's my own unique story. But it definitely, you can say, wow, it takes place in the Tarantino's world. And you guys connected first when you scored a soundtrack for him, correct? Is that how you first got connected? We actually got connected just as Kung Fu movie buddies. Like, so, so that was like, it took two years of just watching movies together. So, until me realizing that I wanted to study underneath him, then I asked him, you know, as a man, I was like, yo, I want to study, but I want to learn from you. And he said, it'd be his pleasure to teach me. And, and then, then we did. Kill Bill, when he did kill Bill, I was just the student there with my notebook, taking notes, flying all around the world, just studying. It wasn't until we got into Mexico, on the second week when he was close to finishing the film that he brought me to the table. And it was like, I've been thinking about you. I want you to be my first composer. I want you to produce my soundtrack and be the first composer, because I never used a composer ever on a film. You know what I mean? So he was like, that's the job I want you to have. Now, that was a smart thing because by giving me that job, the post-production could take 10 to 12 weeks, even 20 weeks, to be honest with you. Right. So now I get 20 weeks to score the film, but also to continue to study. You see what I mean? And so I'm meeting Sally Minkay. I'm meeting, I'm just meeting the whole scope of film, the filmmaking process. And even the editor, who was the assistant editor of Kill Bill is the editor of my films. Like, so we grew together. You see what I mean? The chi is strong, my brother. I can tell. Bunk, bunk. Yes, for sure. From the mind of the RZA, the architect of the legendary Wu Tang Clan, a powerful new film in theaters this weekend. Make sure you go see it. One spoon of chocolate. It launches this weekend. I know martial arts, you talk about how much you love kung fu movies, but it's kind of in the DNA of Wu Tang. What initially drew you to that world? I think the idea of chivalry, brotherhood, you know, one man building himself up to fight for justice. I think, you know, all those elements resonated with me as being in the hood growing up, you know what I mean? And I also think that the escapism was there as well. Like I'm able to look at one of these films and be 500 years ago in China. You know what I mean? And see a guy jump over a wall. Even though a guy can't jump over a wall, it just was a help spark my imagination. And also it sparked the imagination of my whole Wu Tang family. It also, I think gave you a lot of wisdom as we know the W stands for wisdom. And there's a story about a real crossroad in your life where you could have taken this path or you could have taken that path. And you decided to invest your money in music rather than investing in that brick with Uncle Joe. In that moment, you had wisdom. Where did that come from at such a young age in that moment? Well, at the end of the day, to be honest with you, Gentry, I was always like studying and knew the right. It's just that I was tempted by the wrong and felt for that temptation. It was at this point in time where where I had to let go of my negative and build upon my positive. And when I once I start building upon my positive, not only did my life turn around, you know, Wu Tang method man, Ray Kuan, Ghostface, like all of our lives turned around and we had to make a decision though. You said, I mean, you got to make a decision. It says that I'm going to get a little biblical here if you don't mind. Amen. It says it says in the book of Matthew, NTG straight at the narrow gate for wide is the road to destruction. So there's a narrow gate you got to walk through, bro. That wide road is all type of shit. You could bounce off the wall. You got to walk a laser beam focused mind laser beam focused life. And it was I decided that I read that. And I said, you know what, I'm going to I'm going to apply that. You know, I'm going to eat my vegetables today. You know what I mean? And and look, the truth is the truth, right? And the results of it shows improve itself. You had a wide group though. You had nine voices, nine egos, nine careers and somehow you kept it together. How did you I mean, some bands that have four members can't keep it together for a couple of albums. We're talking 30 plus years. How'd you keep it together? Well, we I'm going to say I'll say we, you know, I mean, only Karan. It says, of course, I could say I, I, I, I, but it says for surely we have traveled this path together. You know, I mean, so at any given moment, you know, I mean, there's a there's an energy there that could push us back together. But I think there's gratitude, there's commodity, there's appreciation. Uh, and then there's the reality, right? The positivity of Wu Tang works and it works on every plane mentally, physically, spiritually. The toughest plane is emotionally. All right. But, uh, but as men, you got to beat the emotional plane, bro. You know what I mean? Like if you fall into the emotional plane, you could you could step back for five steps. So you got to overcome emotion with realization. You got to overcome emotion with control. You know what I mean? So realization means a man should realize it for himself. If he can't realize it, somebody got to take control. You know what I mean? There's always one amongst you that can grab control of that will. You say, I mean, that's why, you know, I want to get spiritual again, but they say like Noah, he knew it was going to rain. People didn't believe it, yo, but he knew. So what do you do? He took control and he built that arc so he could save that was needed to be saved. I remember the emotions I was feeling in. I think it was 92 93 with my boy Manny Otero and his 1990 Camaro with that 10 inch kick speaker in the trunk. And he put me onto that Wu Tang 36 chambers and he popped that cassette in. It definitely made me feel emotions and it had that dusty, that grimy, that cinematic basement tape sound. Was that intentional with that sound? Or was that the just the gear that you had access to that gave us that sound? Was that calculated? I feel like, you know, people say hindsight is 2020, but I like to say that it was intentional. My intention. When I first made hip hop, you know, you had to go to the first I made hip hop with a four track tape, bro, at home and all my little neighborhood demos played throughout the hood. When the juzza made his demos, they played throughout the hood. So I just try to make the story quick. When the juzza did his first album, I had to demo tape and then he made the album when he made the album, it didn't sound like the demo tape. The demo tape sounded real, sounded pure. The album sounded polished and I wanted to get a wave. I didn't, I didn't, I wanted to sound like the demo. I wanted to sound like hip hop. When I got the cold cross brothers tape and put it out in my radio and I, what the hell is this and say, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, bro. It's just like, I wanted that. And so and so I wanted 36 chambers to sound like the demo, meaning I wanted to sound like the feeling that that gave me. Then the equipment probably helped. Like the board we had was a PV that PV board is not known for, it's not a mixing board, it's a live board, better for live music. Right. I mean, people was using SS cells and A-max when we had the cheap PV. You know what I mean? But all I needed was fate is broke to separate my sound. And I knew, I knew how to do the rest. You know what I mean? And I, of course I had good engineers in the sense of smart guys, but they were smart enough to move out my way. You know, eat dinner, Carlos. They was like, yo, like they'll be doing, I can hold on, watch out. Let me do my shit, bro. You know how many? And it's like, okay, we're going to record it. Let's go. Bang, bang. And the rest is history. The RZA here, the mind behind the Wu Tang Clan, his new film, One Spoon of Chocolate presented by Quentin Tarantino, hitting theaters coming up on May 1st. RZA, I was talking to one of these radio consultants, you know, they, they have 99 ways to screw, screw a girl, but they ain't got no girlfriend. But I was talking to this consultant. So sometimes they, you know, they always try to drop knowledge on you, but then you wonder, you know, why ain't you running the station? But this guy was telling me that, ah, hip hop is dead. I mean, that's a quote from him. When you look at the hip hop culture today, do you think that hip hop is evolving or do you think that there is something missing with the new hip hop? Because it doesn't seem to be hitting the mainstream charts as much as it has for the last 30 years. My opinion is that music itself is now hip hop. Okay. And it's not just the sound of it. It's the look, the images. If you watch a Taylor Swift video, you're going to see hip hop in it. You know what I mean? Whether they see it in the fashion, the dance moves, the way it's like, it's already amalgamated into the culture now. Billie Eilish, you know what I mean? You know, Justin Bieber, they, they, their foundations still come from that same hip hop culture because they grew up in it and now they're doing their versions of it, which could be a country version, a shabuzy version, whatever, yo. I mean, so what's maybe the artists who are being identified as hip hop are not charting, but the hip hop music and the hip hop culture of what it is, is it? It's just like Wu-Tang getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, right? It makes sense because that's what it is now. It's like, it's, it's not just, uh, I mean, even though the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame says Rock and Roll, you have Michael Jackson, Prince, Chade, Luther Vandross, you have all the imagination of music being able to be inducted into that because it's a lifestyle. It ain't just a sonic. It ain't just because he had a guitar. It ain't just because he had an 808. It's the same thing with hip hop. I think that this, that it's been around long enough and been so influential to, to the music for those, for the last 30 years, it was the, the, uh, the high level of, of what you heard the turn your radio on. And that's around the world, bro. You know what I mean? You hit some, you know, they say bad, bad bunny when he was on the Superbowl. On the press, it was like hip hop artist, bad bunny. You know what I mean? And somebody could argue that it's not, but I could argue that it is because the culture, the vibe of, of, of, of, of this generation that grew up starting in the 2000s, we're in 2020s now, bro. You know what I mean? Hip hop is in your DNA now, no matter what. And so it's always going to be in there. The Resorecta bringing, bringing it all back together for us here on the program. I got a few quick questions. This will be like fire, fire drill here for you. A couple of quick ones. The first album you ever bought with your own money and was it vinyl? Was it a cassette? Yeah, I think it was a vinyl. I think it was a more of a 12 inch Sugar Hill gang. You grabbed the Sugar Hill gang was the first one you grabbed. I think I paid for that one myself. And what about the first car? What was the first whip that the RZA had? Oh man, it was called the God mobile. There's a big ugly old mobile that was brown. The seat was the seat was so bad, bro. My sister's living in that motherfucker. But that was the first car we bought. That was before the reversal. That was as sorry. That was before that was that's before I got money. When I got money, the first car I bought was a Range Rover. And what about growing up? Did you have posters on your wall? Who was up on your wall? Did you have any posters as a kid? Prusely. Nice. Prusely. And what were the films that you were seeing as a kid that made you want to be the filmmaker that you are today? Was it mostly Kung Fu movies? Yeah, mostly Kung Fu movies. Of course, Star Wars and Rocky. They was very impactful. Taken up Helen one, two and three is impactful. The first movie I ever saw and did it was Huckleberry Finn. Interesting. Yeah, what you watch when you watch one spoon of chocolate, I have my character reading from the book Huckleberry Finn just to give my thanks to that cinematic moment in my life. What's your favorite Kung Fu movie of all time? I don't have a favorite, but the one I think everybody should watch is 36 Chambers of the Shalind. What's the one Wu Tang song that still hits you today that when you're on stage and you're playing it, it still gives it gives you those feels. So many. But the one that fucking spientingly is a song called Heaven's Seek. It's just fucking, it's just spying, spientingly song to me. And are you going to be performing that one in the final chamber tour with my boys at Bone Thugs and Harmony? You're hitting the road this summer, right? Indeed. Well, I expect the deck and Capitana's on that one. So they got it, you know, they got the want to do it, but they've done it some nice. And when they do it, I'm just, I'm just like, I could punch a hole in the wall when that shit comes on. Well, you've always been a visionary. So as we look ahead, what's on the horizon for you? What are you plotting? What are you building next? Well, this film once when the chocolate is actually being distributed by our own distribution company called 36 Cinema. And I want to be able to be an outlet for not just my films, but for other filmmakers who kind of got to jump over 30 hurdles to get through the industry. I want to try to turn that 30 hurdles to 10 or 12 hurdles and get more unique stories out on the cinema into movie theaters. And we're working hard on that. Well, man, I really respect your hustle. I also appreciate you stepping into the chamber with us today. Dropping the wisdom, sharing game. You continue to inspire and you continue to make more millionaires in the culture. And I respect you for that. Wu-Tang forever. Go see the movie One Spoon of Chocolate in theaters this weekend with the RZA. Thank you for your time and God bless you, man. Thank you. Thank you. Peace. Peace out, bro.
