26 | This is the Captain Speaking

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Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is released every Thursday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad-free listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. stuff on missing people and he started doing this podcast about joseph well it's turned into this ridiculously crazy deal where they're on this app and everybody's talking about they're just dragging all of us through the dirt the piscoyas of jake saying that we all did it to him and that we're all murderers and part of the mafia and that graham's a mafia person and we should all lose our job. I mean, it's bad. It's all over the internet. They've taken pictures from our Facebook, interviews from that time, and they're posting all this stuff, using it against us, and using our pictures without our permission and everything. Seeing that we're the one who Joseph disappeared. That's... I don't know what we're going to do about it yet. Graham's thinking about maybe a lawyer to sue the guy for What do they call that? Defamation of character and harassment and everything else. He doesn't know anything. This guy doesn't even know anything. He's just making all this stuff up and dragging everybody to the dirt about it. He's got pictures of our family and this whole podcast and everything that he's stolen off of Facebook. I mean, like, pictures of us flying, looking for Joseph, family pictures. He's got our bill of sale from when we sold the airplane, which... Yeah, I don't know how you get that. Who cares? I mean, I'm sure it's public information, but what does that have to do with anything? Yeah. It's just, he's got all of our pictures of a squad looking for Joseph. But he's saying that we're the ones who killed Joseph, and we're the ones who are to blame for the whole thing, and that's why they haven't found him, because we're hiding him, and we're all part of the Skoya Mafia and everything. It's crazy. There are people saying that Graham is the matriarch of this whole mafia family, and when Kevin died, this is the other rumor. I guess there's this chat now. People are talking about this whole case. One of the things they said was when Kevin died, there was a suicide note. In that suicide note was Kevin saying that he killed Joseph. which is total BS. It's just insane. I mean, they're just making up a whole bunch of stuff for entertainment. And they don't care what it's doing to all of us. Now, his heart blew up. He had a massive heart failure. And Dude and Jake are the ones that found and Russell were the ones who found Kevin. There's no suicide note there. No. But I mean, they're talking about you and Chris being drunk. And Chris, he had an affair with Joseph. It's just this long, drawn-out thing. We're just so stressed about this whole thing. I don't know what to do about it. Especially because Jake was his roommate to the airport. They think he did it. He did something. Yeah, in Graham's house. They lived in the same house. Graham's old house is where Jake was staying and so was Joseph. Each had a room. But the police cleared everything already. Everybody has alibis for where everybody was. He went missing. There's so many rumors. It's so hurtful. It's really bad. It's really bad. We haven't been sleeping very much because they're just... The stuff they're saying is really bad. It's so bad yesterday I told Graham, I said you need to sign a lawyer you just this corporation or whatever he has this podcast for deprivation of character or false accusations or slanders yeah, of course all of it is a thing we'll talk about Kevin's suicide that's dumb one thing he said was Kevin was bragging about how he was an ex-cop and he knows how to get rid of evidence. And when he got to Joseph's truck, he dusted off Joseph's footprints. He didn't even go down there and that happened. Well, Kevin and I were together when we went that first day. We went to the ranger to help look for him. And he did nothing of that sort. He didn't strike. They think that they're saying that he crushed away Joseph's footprints. It's just so dumb. And, you know, people are talking about, well, all the Piscoyas have great prominent jobs. And, you know, like Graham is the vice president of COERC. Dudes of security. Lonnie's in charge of this investigation. Cuban Creeps are at COERC. All these all these miscellaneous need to be put on leave until they come up with you know whatever. They already closed the case. He's a missing person. There's no everybody was cleared. We all had alibis where everybody was. We were at camp. All of us. We were all at camp building that addition. That day we saw him drive by. I know you went missing a day later and we never saw actually who was in that truck. Remember, we all wondered why he didn't stop and say hi. Yeah, we were working on the building, on the new addition. He had a barbecue. Yeah. But this guy doesn't know any of us. He's just making it, and this is entertainment for him. This is what his podcast does. He finds things and makes stories out of them, and he just slanders people he knows absolutely nothing about. He's taking pictures from our Facebook and posting them on this thing, saying, this is who this is, this is who this is. and our pictures are all over this guy's thing now, which I think that's illegal. I don't think you can take people's pictures and use them without their consent. Maybe I can't, but I don't think so. And then these people get together on this app and they discuss the podcast and you don't know who they are because they're not real names or anonymous and they're the ones talking a whole bunch of stuff about this podcast. And some of them are known people and it's just ridiculous. It's been really bad. Jake's so stressed. Jake's pretty upset. He said, I mean, no, you did. I haven't done it. I haven't listened to it and it just, it, it just makes me so mad that, you know, it's just wild. The podcast, they used your dad's interview and posted that on the podcast right in the moment. You know, he interviewed me. Remember that cop interviewed us at our house to just ask us what we were, how we were helping and all that stuff. And it was like that investigator guy. He came and, you know, on an interview with him on the couch at the house. And then later he asked if he could use that. And we told him, no, we don't want it used. We don't want to have any, we don't want you to use our interviews. Well, he obviously, whoever that cop guy was, must have used them because they're out there online and they've got it. so because you know joseph is missing and then that girl florence is missing also it has been missing not a trace of her so this guy that does the podcast it's like well those two people are missing and absolutely nothing has given up with their cases there's There's got to be a serial killer at home. A serial killer at home, but nobody's saying anything. Which there very may well be. I mean, there's been a lot of people gone missing at home. It's so bad. I don't know. I'm sure it would make me bad. He just started, like, right a few months ago. He just started this podcast because there been still people looking for Florence So because there no answers He decided to make a podcast about it just recently and started this whole thing up For entertainment, for viewing, for viewers. So he has viewers on his podcast. I kind of think that Joseph's sister, Selena, is also behind this. because they, you know, never been to Alaska, never stepped through it out of the funeral anywhere until Joseph went busy. He doesn't understand. He bought the bears. When a rush with two that first day, he found 29 bears. In that area. In that area. But Selena, Joseph's sister, no, that kept me in there. There's no way that did something to him. It does something. And of course, we were all close to him, so we're the prime suspect, I guess. Sometimes they do, sometimes they bury him, and you know, it's such a big area, who knows where he was buried, we just couldn't find him. I'm sure he's out there buried somewhere, we just don't know where. They do it immediately, they bury him immediately. Yep, they do, especially if they had just eaten, they're gonna bury him. Come back to it later. Come back to it later. That's what they do, but... yeah it's i don't know it's wild it's it's she'll send you the guy's name so you can look it up and i don't know what that app is though about that app but you don't want to read the app it's bad i took julius that you just need to stop reading that i don't i don't want to waste any more time and hurt a dumbness because it's it's so bad i think they're trying to get a rise none of us to see what we'll do to see if we'll respond to him or we don't i mean get nothing and this just started like a month ago somebody saw a podcast of this person of this guy talking about the missing people in gnome and then it got spun off onto joseph and it's gone crazy ever since then so so now everybody's sharing it in gnome on gnome post or whatever they're talking about it so now everybody's into it looking at it it's become the latest gossip i guess but she'll send you the guy's picture name or whatever so you can if you want to look it up i'm not too worried about it because i know what we all did and i know we just helped we helped look for him and we spent a lot of time and money doing it. This guy is just an idiot. I think he should be sued for lying and for trying to scare people. That's not right. I think he should be sued for it. Especially nowadays, you probably could win a lawsuit like that. He probably doesn't have any money, though. That's probably the deal. I don't know how you get paid for podcasts, probably by viewers or something. But he's been sued before for doing these same kind of things about cases he knew nothing about. just to have an entertaining channel with viewers. Crazy. What's going on with that? This guy's, we talked to a lawyer about suing him for defamation of character and slander and stealing our photos and everything else. And the lawyer wants 10 grand up front to even start. And he said, we wouldn't win anyway because of the freedom of speech rules. He says, anybody can say anything they want about anybody else. these days we can't do anything about it so we can't afford the lawyer we can't do anything but he's kind of stopped doing this stuff because we haven't responded to anything i think that's what he's wanting us to do is go after him and respond to keep his podcast going and we're not so he's kind of stopped going on with it so maybe eventually he's going to be over with it because he doesn't have any truth on anything he's just lying through he's just slandering us and lying to everybody about everybody oh my gosh he's saying that that we're tracking him on on alaska airlines where he goes and that i'm looking at the manifest to tell people where he goes which i have no i can't look at the manifest i have no idea who's on our flights i'm not allowed to nope all i see is numbers i don't see the names i just see numbers and that's it i can't do that i'm not allowed to just a crew but not passengers so oh man he's saying it's just not so all the stuff he's put on there. No, I refuse to give the time of day. Jilly's been telling me and other people are looking at it are, but I won't go through any of it because I won't give him the time of day because I know it's all lies. I know what our family did. I know what we did. He's just doing this to get his podcast going so he makes money off this stupid podcast. He's just a piece of shit. It's horrible. It's just bad. well you know we didn't do anything to it we were trying to help we're trying to help the guy help the family when you were there through the whole thing too do you remember what we did for that guy and his family oh yeah so long ago it's crazy i don't know i don't remember i don't remember why idiot took a break on doing podcasts i guess well he stopped for like uh two weeks or something to i don't know if he's taking a break or what and then i don't know when he starts it up again but um jake's probably gonna have change his number because he keeps harassing chrissy and jake on the phone constantly trying to get him calling him trying to get him to interview and you know we're not giving this idiot the time of day so he's threatening to come up and and start trouble and all this guy all this stuff and so they've he's probably gonna end up changing his phone number put a uh restraining order on him this guy's crazy he's not a cop he's not even a a real investigator he's just a a blogger money off these things that he does to people oh yeah he spent 10 years harassing This other family in Alaska of a missing case, I think it was over in Toke somewhere or something. And he was assured that this guy murdered this guy. And he harassed him just like he's doing with up there in Nome. Went after this guy, did all the same kind of stuff. They sued him, everything. And then 10 years later, the real killer came out and said, no, this guy had nothing to do with it. I did it. It was in Alaska. It was another missing persons case up in Alaska that he was working on for a long time. And then it ended up coming out. It had nothing to do with the people that he was blaming for it. The real guy stood up and went to jail for it. And these people sued him for defamation of character and everything else. Because he just makes money off of all his lies when he has no evidence and nothing to support any of it. and his viewers just sit there and eat it up and he makes money on it and he gets away with it. It's just crazy because I think it would make me too mad to know that there's some idiot out there who's totally lying about us and there's nothing I can do about it because of freedom of speech. I do, but that's what he's wanting from our family. He's wanting us to take the bait and go after him because that keeps his podcast going and that keeps all this money coming in for him. so we've all made the decision up there in norm that we're not gonna go out we're not gonna acknowledge this guy we're not gonna you know go in there and start writing a bunch of stuff because that's what he wants that's what he's edging up to do he's trying to get us to to take the bait and go after him so because he's got tons of lawyers he's got lots of money he can do this all day long i mean we tried to get a lawyer and it was over ten thousand dollars just to retain the guy and then the guy says yeah you guys won't win because it's not illegal what he's doing you can say whatever he wants about somebody it's not illegal so it's like well you can't really do a lawyer because it doesn't do any good you can say whatever you want about somebody days and can't do anything about it yeah we were up in up in home we were uh we all got together and talked about it we got a lawyer on the phone and on a zoom meeting with a lawyer and there's all of us with a lawyer he's really only going after Chrissy and Jake and then because he thinks those two are the ones that have done this whole thing even though the FBI the Alaska state troopers everybody cleared everybody in our family a long time ago after all those interviews with us they cleared us all because we all had alibis of what we were doing what we all were doing it had nothing to do with us and that's why the case was closed because there's no evidence of anything he probably got taken out by a bear somewhere but this guy won't agree with that i don't know why somebody would want to hurt him he was such a nice person i mean you met him you knew him he was a nice guy i don't know anybody would want to do anything to him it just doesn't make any sense you know to me what makes sense is he's running in the he's running on a ridge with no gun no bear spray and he's in the most popularly a bear area around and he goes missing i mean that happens all the time with with bears and stuff i just don't know why anybody would want to hurt him or what he would have done somebody the reason they're doing it is because there's a lot of people in nom they're very jealous of the pascoya family because they're successful they're a successful native family all their brothers you know are successful they're all successful they're all got good jobs and people have nothing better to do a gnome except gossip about everybody else and that thread that everybody's on whatever they call that thread nobody knows who it is because you're in there as a fake name so it could be anybody there they say oh yeah i can say whatever i want now and spread gossip because nobody knows it's me on this site i think that's what's happening that people are just have nothing better to do but gossip there's one person in gnome and they live out by snake river but she's the only one who stood up for the family, said stuff to us, and said stuff on that deal for us and to help us. She's the only one. Everybody else is just gossip, gossip, gossip. We went through our Facebooks and we cleaned out so many people that we don ever talk to I mean people somehow knew when we came up to Nome to go hunting they saw us at the airport All of a sudden there was talk on that thing What I'm upset about is that guy took a photo of me and Bonnie getting on the flight in L.A. to go to Nome to say, hey, we're heading up to Nome. Here's a picture we did. And he turned it into, oh, they knew I was coming to Nome. And he has the manifest. So he saw me coming and warned everybody I was coming to know. He took a picture of us off Facebook and put it on his webcast, I guess. Pain. Yeah, the pain dude. He used our picture off our Facebook, which I don't know how he can take our photos off Facebook when they're private. I think that was before we blocked them all. Blocked everything. I found him and blocked him. I blocked all his businesses that he works with, media businesses. I blocked everything so he can't get into any. Everybody has. We've all blocked everything about him. Cannot get into our Facebooks now. Everybody's made their Facebooks private, which a lot of people didn't have done before. But he turned that around like we knew he was coming to know him and warned the town he was coming. It's like I don't know who this guy is. I don't even know what he looks like for one thing. I don't even know where he lives. And I cannot access anything of the manifest at Alaska Airlines. All I get on my iPad is the number of passengers in a numerical form. A hundred and seventy five is all I see of the people. I can't see the names. I'd have to log on at the counter to do what the CSAs do. And I don't have that login information. I'm not even allowed to touch those computers. So he he was saying that he he said, which he claimed he did, that he went to Alaska Airlines to tell them that I was in the manifest telling them that this guy was coming up. and that he was going to get me in trouble, and he was looking at Tom, too, about doing the same thing, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, he never did, because Alaska Airlines never said a thing to me about it. They never called me about it. They never emailed me about it. And then he said he turned it all over to the FAA, which the FAA can't do anything about it. And I'm not worried about it. That's why I don't – What pisses me off is this guy's making money off of ruining people's reputation for his own game. And that's what's wrong. And that's what we can't do anything about. We've got to let it run its course and be done because people are already starting to get tired of it. Because he has no new information. Because we're not giving him new information. We're not going after him. We're not saying a word. So it's just kind of going dead. And I think he's given up, hopefully. You told me there was never anything recovered from Joseph. Nope, there wasn't. How was his credit card used two weeks after he went missing? I have no idea. Maybe his family had it. Was that in the podcast or something? Oh, see, I haven't watched any of these podcasts, so I don't know any of this stuff. I never heard that one before, but maybe his family had it or something. But, you know, I mean, when they came up to search for him, maybe they had his stuff. I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea. I never even heard that even back then. They never mentioned that. I don't know. Maybe someone had his cart. Maybe someone stole his cart. Yeah, I have no idea on that one. I always wondered if he was in witness protection or something. You dropped this bomb on me that the family was involved. You were interviewed eight years ago and never mentioned it to me. We never heard about it until just recently. This guy popped up out of nowhere and started doing, he started with that girl who went missing on the beach also. We did that eight years ago. The reason they interviewed us eight years ago when it happened is because we were all friends with Joseph, and he was friends with our family, so we agreed to do interviews to make sure that we all were good and that we weren't involved in any of it, which we weren't, and that's why we chose to voluntarily do the interviews with the FBI and the police. Why'd you lie to the investigator about the day you saw the truck? I didn't lie to the investigator. Okay. We saw a blue car go by down there. I don't know if it was Saturday or Sunday. There were two blue cars, I remember, of the same kind at Nome. there were two of those exact vehicles in Nome and I know when Kevin and I were working on the building we saw that one car go by and we waved and we thought it was him and I don't know if there was another one that went by on Sunday because we were working at camp that whole weekend that's eight years ago how am I supposed to remember exact details from eight years ago when we haven't been dealing with him in eight years. We know we had nothing to do with him going missing because we were busy that weekend. We were working. We didn't even see him that weekend except for the car drive-by. Well, join the rest of us because we're all confused too because we don't understand why all of a sudden, eight years later, this guy decides he's going to get on a missing persons case and then try to ruin everybody's life for no reason. There is no evidence of anything which was already done and cleared away before, eight years ago. We were all cleared and we did all this voluntarily. We didn't even have to do these interviews. We did it all voluntarily to help try to find him. That's why we did it. Actually, the interviews we did were supposed to be, what do they call it, where you can't reread them or whatever, what do they call that, That were not incognito, but they weren't supposed to be public, made public. They were supposed to be private interviews. That's why we agreed to do that. And somehow, whoever that idiot was who interviewed us leaked them out to this guy, and this guy's got them all without our permission. So that might actually be illegal. I don't know. So you guys weren't involved in any way? No, of course not. Why would we even want to hurt Joseph? He was our friend. He was a friend of the family. Why would we want to hurt him for any reason whatsoever? We helped his family. We treated his family like family when they came up here. We spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars flying around looking for him, trying to do stuff to help any way we could. I mean, you know our family. You know we're not people that would do anything bad like that. We'd have no reason to do something like that. Nobody would. Why did Jake lie to the cops? He was very scared because he lived with Joseph. And he was young and he was scared. You know, they were doing some pot and stuff in there. And I think he was, which he even said later, he was just really scared that everything was going to get pinned on him because he was a roommate. And that's why he originally lied, but told the truth after that. And he was even clear. Was he involved with drugs? He smoked pot when he was up there. But yeah, he hasn't done drugs, or he hasn't done pot, I don't think, in a really long time. But when he was a teenager, he did a little bit. Why aren't you guys protesting and trying to say your side of the story? Well, we really want to, and we would love to go after this guy and prove that he's a fraud, which a lot of other people have already done. But we can't afford it. We can't afford the lawyer. I mean, Carol was going to pay for most of it, and she can't even afford this lawyer to do what we need to do. This guy is huge. He's got massive backing behind him. He makes millions off his podcasts sitting on the East Coast, and he comes over and he just does missing persons cases because he wants to be his – I think he's an investigator, and he tries to do all this stuff. And he's never even proven anything in any of his podcast stories about anything. He's never done anything to prove that he's right. He's always been wrong on everything, and he just ruins people's lives, but we don't have the money to fight it. It costs too much. Lawyers are way too much money, and they would fall up in court so long, and nobody can afford to do it. So we just agreed, well, none of us have anything to hide. Our family did nothing, so let him say what he wants. If we don't go after him and we don't sit there and keep this whole thing going, which is what he wants to do because that keeps his listeners listening and it keeps the money flowing. We just shut up about it. It'll just go away. And that's starting to do that finally because he has no new stuff to go off of. And it's just ruining. Chrissy's just stressed out all the time because this guy's constantly calling and harassing him. He constantly calls Jake all the time trying to get him to do any of the Jake won't answer it. We've blocked all his numbers, but he'll start calling from different numbers. So I think he's going to actually go to the known police and file a retraining order on the number and the guy. Why did you guys not say anything to me about this before? Well, you were pretty young, and it didn't involve you in any of it, So we didn't feel like it was necessary to put you through something you didn't have to go through. Because, you know, we just wanted to tell the cops what our family was doing. So we were in the clear because we knew we were. And that's why we chose to do the interviews with them. We didn't have to do anything because they weren't worried about you. You were just a kid, you know. They just wanted to talk to his immediate friends and family, which we kind of were. And then they did. And they cleared everybody. and then that was the end of it that's been the end of it for all these years until this guy he pops out of nowhere and you know brings all this stuff up and twists everything and starts you know he he falsely accusing everybody with no evidence he puts out zero evidence because he has not he just going off what he thinks and what he believes he doesn know Gnome He doesn know any of the family He doesn know about the wildlife of Gnome He doesn't know how things work in the bush. He has no clue. He lives in the freaking East Coast somewhere. You guys both know if a bear kills something, they leave evidence. Not always. They bury him pretty quick. That's why we searched so much because we were trying to find something. But we're not knowing where he ran exactly. You know, that's a huge area. It's hard to search that, even though we had so many people searching. It's just we didn't find anything. And that's the crazy part about it is that there's nothing. I thought him and Chrissy were together at one point. No, they were never together. They were just close friends. But that guy, that girl that he was having an affair with, the husband after joseph died just lost his marbles he was a teacher at the school he totally lost his marbles i think they got divorced and he left he just left no he just went nuts he went crazy but this guy's not saying anything about them or looking into that even though maybe it's nothing but he's not looking into that why why just all why just the pascoys because they're successful, because, you know, they're in positions of high, not high power, but in big positions around Nome with, you know, Carol and, you know, Tom being, you know, Captain Alaska and Dude being in law enforcement. So, you know, this other guy is just a teacher or whatever, so he's not a big enough story, I guess, to go down that rabbit hole, even though maybe there's nothing there. I don't know anything about it, but I know that Joseph was messing around with that little girl. Did Kevin mess with tracks? Yeah, I know when we drove down there that one time and saw his car, we parked on the road and we were walking around his car and it was unlocked. So, yeah, that may have messed up tracks and stuff, but at that point none of us were thinking that, you know, something bad, bad had happened to him. You know, afterwards, because once he didn't show back up Monday for work and then they reported him missing and then we all started i don't remember how many days it was before we started the search we drove down to where he had said he was gonna be and we could see his truck right there and so we walked around there obviously looking they may have been at the same time i'm not sure but i do know we went down there look we looked around that car that one time and i do remember it unlocked but there was just nothing nothing of his there's nothing there i mean the cops went down went over that whole car anyway they went through everything but we didn't mess with anything. We wouldn't have known that it was going to be a criminal case anyway. At that point, we were just trying to figure out where he went. Yeah, I wish we could fight this guy. I wish I could get on there, in my own words, and be like, hey, you know what, you dumbass. I can't look at past your manifest. I don't know you. I don't know where you live. I don't even know what you fucking look like, much less anything. Why would I be looking for you coming to Nome? I could care less where you're going. And I cannot look at that. I would get fired if I could look at people's manifests. I can't do that. I have no way to do that. Even on my company material, I'm not allowed to. We can't see that. But that would just give him more ammo to keep going after stuff. No, there's no way. And I think that's why Alaska never said anything to me. If he even said anything to them, I think he's lying about it. I think he's just saying it to try to get a rise out of us. If they tracked stuff, they're very good on security. They would have texted me right away and be like, hey, do you know what's going on with this? Is this guy, you know, I haven't heard a word in months from them about any of it. So I don't think he even went to a lot. I think he put it on there trying to keep the story going. Were you guys aware that they were investigating possible foul play? Well, yeah, they put it right out there. That's why they came. The cops got involved right away because they were, he went missing. We couldn't find him. So, of course, they get involved and they have to go down these routes because we weren't required to. They didn't ask us to. We did them voluntarily. There's a felony charge if you know about foul play and don't say anything. Is that a possibility? No, it isn't because they've already cleared us and put us out of the system because we all proved where we were. I have flight manifests of where I was during the whole time when I was flying at Ryanair. All that's documented. So I'm clear. Bonnie was working at Barrier Air. That's clear. Jake has, he was working. They know where he was. They know where everybody was. And that's why we did all this stuff. So they knew, hey, we saw him drive by. I don't remember what days it was, but we saw him drive by while we were working at camp that weekend. And he did not stop, which we thought was odd. We made sure that we told them that. It's like, Joseph should have stopped to say hi, and he didn't. He roared on by, and that's it. We can't say, yes, it was him in the car, because we can't tell. but it kind of looked like him but he went by so fast it's hard to see who was in that car maybe it was somebody totally different maybe somebody did take him out and kill him and bury him and they were trying to get his car down who knows i mean nobody knows if no one comes forth and says anything no one's ever gonna know that's the problem but nobody in our family would have would have had any reason to do anything to harm him he was our friend. He was a family friend. Why would Jake lie to the troopers? I think maybe because they were doing, you know, some illegal drugs in the house that they all lived in and maybe he was scared something with that. I don't know. He was young and, you know, not as mature, obviously, as he is now. And so maybe that's why he just was scared about it. But he told the truth later and it was all clear. I mean, call him and ask him. Call him and talk about it. He'll be open with you about it. He's a grown man now. He'll tell you everything. He'll tell you exactly why. I mean, to be better than, you know, thinking that, you know, I mean, having you think that Jake's trying to hide something, just, you know, be a man about it. Call him up and ask him. He'll tell you. He'll tell you exactly everything that happened. The whole thing doesn't make sense because people just don't disappear off the face of the earth like that. And maybe they already looked into all that stuff in the original investigation and didn't do anything about it because they figured it out. I don't know. Maybe this guy is not putting his whole truth out there. If he's saying, well, there's someone who's using his credit card, well, maybe he's not finishing out the story that, well, the cops found out that this card had been taken and it was being used and it was canceled. Maybe he's just trying to spin the story to say somebody, you know, did something to him and he's using his cards. who knows. I'm sure the FBI turned over every single leaf in this whole thing already. I'm sure that's why it's a closed case now, because there was no evidence of anything found. Nothing. The whole family is choosing not to talk to Payne. Yeah, that's why we haven't said a word about it on anything. That's why we've deleted every single thing we can find of this guy, blocked him on all of our social medias. We've made all All of our social media is private. Jake and Gwen have actually canceled all their Facebook stuff because this guy was harassing them so bad. He was taking pictures of their kids off of their Facebook. So there's, you know, this guy's kind of scaring them. So they closed all their accounts. Man, we've shut down. We looked up the guy's name. If nobody did anything wrong, why is everybody so scared? we're not just we're not scared we're just trying to not let him into our lives and ruin what we have that's we didn't do anything so why let him into all of our private stuff that is none of his business that he's profiting off stealing stuff off our facebook and using it that's what they said they were using them on that on that app no he's pulled a bunch of stuff and used it in those podcasts you probably saw it he doesn't i mean i haven't watched it is it a video or is it only i don't know the podcast that pictures and videos on them or not it's on this other app then or where these things are showing up then but he's on that app and he's putting things on that app so people start talking about it i think that's where some of our pictures have ended up on that whatever that site is but since then we've you know we've blocked everything so because he has no business getting into our stuff. This is our life. He has no business prying into. You know what I mean? We don't go prying to his personal life. We don't prying to his Facebook. He's doing this as a business and making money off his lies and off his stories because he's a podcaster. This is how these podcasters make money. That's the same thing with politics. People do the same thing with politics. They slam other people. They drag dirt, supposed dirt up to try to ruin someone's reputation. Then later they find out, oh, it was all wrong. They just did it for political reasons. So this guy does it for money. He makes millions of dollars off this stuff. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsey. The show is written by Payne Lindsey with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique Glenn, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Banished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.