EP 78: Catching Up With Brayven Hager

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts and a Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. Well, we are back to another episode of Two Addicts and a Mora. And we are bringing back a former guest today. Yeah. One, it's so long overdue, man. Like, we had a good time. It was one of my favorite ones because it was the first time that we'd ever brought a parent in at the same time. But can't wait to have a little one-on-one time with this young man. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Braven Hager, everybody. Welcome back, brother. It's so good to be back. Thank you all for having me. My dad had a great time. I think it was a very powerful message to see. you know i wanted to do that um as a first honestly a first podcast appearance i wanted my dad to be there as a thank you um and also just to give a straight point of view what it's like to be a parent to have a son um that has to have a bad because i'm a father now so i see things differently now because when i was running and gunning i was just a 20 year old kid so immature not really thinking about my actions and how it affected them i've loved my parents always have but just addiction takes that away and just the patience he taught me so much of how to be a father and the patience and the love and the tough love you can't come back here and he gave me a great blueprint on how to be a father if you know hope not if any of my kids struggle through this i'll have a pretty good roadmap of how to handle it yeah well look man um whenever you have kids like it then forces you to see the world through your parents eyes right something that you never really understood until the moment that that happens right which is a pretty unique thing you know when you when you're just a son or the daughter you're just like you know i don't get it i don't get what it is that you're and then he's always like my mom's an asshole yeah And then you have one and it's like, oh, holy shit. This is insane. So I was stoked to have him on. And I've got to tell you, you know, especially me and Mike are children of the 80s and 90s and we're football heads. So it was incredibly hard not to dork out with that man. Right. Just on a football level. Like, it was a hard not. I tried to before a little bit and a little bit after, but during I was like, we're just going to focus. What was Reggie White like? I had to keep pinching myself. Absolutely. He is just so humble with all that. I'm such a huge football fan. Last night I was at my parents' house, and we were talking. Bryce was over to visit as well, and it just came to me. I was like, I have to say that. Is there any other linebacker in college history that in two seasons had 499 tackles? And he was like a couple names, but it was Luke Keekly almost got that. In three years, he had like 470 tackles, but it was three seasons. And for the longest time, I still today, I try to get answers out of him, also get answers like what UT has of him, like these highlights. because every story I hear about my father is that they've never seen anything like him. The speed, his precision, and just he was 499 tackles in two years is a crazy statistic, and I nerd out about it all the time. His humility and how he handled all of that, and no, it's hard not to, especially with Bryce, and hearing them talk to each other behind the scenes, like talking about coach mcveigh because my brother was on the rams yeah just the people that they know and how small of a world the nfl gets because it's really hard to make an nfl you know so me being born into and like my first memories of life was hanging out my dad's teammate was robert jones he played at the cowboys he played with troy aikman and all of them so i played with all of their kids who are now uh zay still in the nfl right now um so my first memories of life was doing sock and boppers was with those little better than a pillow fight was a jones yeah running to see our dads after that so at a very young age i knew that like life was going to be i had understanding like this is very special yeah very different a hundred percent man i could not imagine like and what the the other thing that said out and this stands out about your dad's humility and i mean who he was to the university of texas not was is still very presently today But also, you know, the defense that he was on with the Philadelphia Eagles and some of the absolute legends. The bounty hunters. The games, dude. And you asked him about Jerome Brown. Yeah. And I asked him about Reggie White. And those two guys were standouts. Yeah. And he didn't talk hardly anything about them playing to us. Yeah. You notice he talked about who they were, how good a people they were. Right. And like it was, if I was in his shoes, I'd be like, dude, I was, I'd be running around here like I was on the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah. Reggie White. Right. Rubbing elbows. Like, but he was just like, they were just good people. Very, very humble dude. Very, very humble guy. Yeah. And I think that speaks a lot to him as a parent and how – and it probably helped him a lot navigate what it was that you were going through in your audition. I mean, he was having to do probably one of the toughest jobs on the planet. Right. Well, something he said that really stood out to me was you're only doing as well as your kid that's not doing the best. Yeah, like you're your happiest kid. Yeah, so, you know, like your brothers, Baylor, UT, made it to the NFL big time. You know, your other brothers, isn't he a model? One of them is a model, right? Bryce. Or actor? Oh, Brecken, yes. My little brother Breckin, he makes films, all that. Literally, I used to watch him. I never watched college football until I moved to Austin. So I started watching UT when I got here. But when he said, yeah, it doesn't matter if one's in the NFL and one's playing for UT, one of my sons is struggling. And that's me and my wife are struggling based on it. We're not high over here because this one's doing so well. It's the one that's not doing as well. that's where we're struggling. Yeah. So, I mean, that said a lot about him where a lot of parents would be like, I got one over here and one over here and not even mention the one that's struggling. But your dad was like, no, this is where my soul focus. This is where most of my focus was. Yeah. Was with braving. And, uh, that, that spoke like I couldn't imagine. I got one daughter. I couldn't imagine having three or four first off. And I couldn't imagine like if three of them are doing great, but one of them struggling like that. I can only imagine how that would make me feel. And it said a lot about your dad. I think I'd text you. I know for a fact I'd text you after you left or message you and said, man, being around your dad made me wish I had a better time. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Made me wish my dad was more present. Fuck. And what a present guy with everything that he had going on. Yeah. You know, and for him to have that that thought process is it's a rare human being. Right. It's a rare that's just a rare human being. Yeah. Forget about father or anything. Just that's a rare dude. Yeah. Well, and a lot of people that make it to the NFL like your dad did once they leave the NFL, like you see it all the time where people. That's all that they really know as far as athletes like in college. They were the big shit and the big shit. But when you get out of the NFL, you're not the person. People don't look at you the same way. Right. And for him to be able to go to his next phase in life, you see a lot of these athletes not be able to transition from I'm an athlete making all this money to now I'm just a I'm not not I wouldn't say a regular person. But, you know, I'm saying I don't have that star power that I had. And your dad transitioned to where he got started his business and he did very well. Absolutely. That's something you don't see a lot of people do. You see these people that sign millions of dollars in contracts and then 10 seasons out of the NFL and you're seeing that they're completely broke. NFL stands for not for long. Not for long. That's what he tells us all the time. A lot of people don't know this about my father. Immediately after the NFL, because he played for the Eagles, Broncos, and the Rams, um his last year with the rams he was about to sign a contract with the san diego chargers and then he's like i don't you know i want to be a dad you know my kids are growing up i don't want to miss anymore and then also on top of that he got a some coaching position for the denver broncos as well so big you know guaranteed money not you know just you know but he said i know i'm gonna take my because he majored in business in college and he went from straight from the nfl he started working at a mattress firm and start try to start franchises here in austin i believe and then after that uh storage company just then he became this like serial entrepreneur um so i it's really cool to see because growing up most of you know a little bit was football but after was mostly hearing him listen on business taking business calls talking with people how he interacted with people as a businessman and as a man and i am hearing y'all talk about i am so grateful for the parents that I have. I've been so incredibly lucky and it's just a prime example of how this disease doesn't discriminate against anyone. You know, I had a perfect life set up for me. Every, you know, privilege anyone could possibly get, honestly, you know, but that doesn't matter, you know. And when you become a kid, that shifts, you know, the because I was a real big bleeding heart in my 20s, very, very sensitive. Still, I'm very sensitive. I care about how people feel. I'm empath whatever all that stuff but when you have kids and schedules start to force like you have to have a schedule and you have to have a game plan you have to start making money you start have to you have to hunting and gathering so it's just that instinct that we have humans that that come and and me being sober is a perfect storm of god my children and just have i i could have i was okay with being the bad son i was okay with being the bad brother but i'm not going to be a bad father that was um that was my biggest message my brother asked me like so do you think it's the kid everyone wants to know like what's keeping you sober you know it's it's god like alice cooper said something amazing about his uh his experience with god um he got out of a psych ward or rehab or whatever um and he said i'm i need to test this because i am a rock star and i'm and i'm going to continue being a rock star i need to go to a bar and see how this feels he goes to a bar and he said literally he felt god take that craving away from him that is what's happened to me yeah there's a funny story a couple weeks ago i was in town i'll make this real short um we're in the hot tub i was i was with my family it was hot and i asked my wife taylor to get me a sparkling water but my dad has seltzers he has seltzers in the fridge so um she got me a boozy seltzer yeah and i and i wanted water you know i wanted i was thirsty and i drink it and i was like oh i was like oh that's alcohol but it's funny now but everyone was like oh my gosh like are you okay yeah i haven't thought about that until they bring it up like i can't believe it's like it's not that big of a deal it's not like because it used to be like that if i got a little bit in me yeah oh that's racist like bad i like i am just going to a motel room locking everything up for weeks turning my phone off hiding from that vibrating phone call you know it's these feelings that are just just terrible yeah um but yeah the craziest thing uh that i ever put my parents through is i i got held uh hostage and held for ransom when i was in la whoa we missed that story yeah i didn't tell i didn't tell the story uh last is because you know there's so many war stories. There's so many, this is one I think has the most impact and I carry trauma from it to this day. I bet. But it's, I walked into the lion's den. I take full responsibility. There's no victim mode here, but it's pretty messed up what these people did to me. So I lived in California for sober living. I went to the last resort and I signed an AMA. Cause I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. For some reason I stayed in a couple of weeks later, They're like, we need to do something different. Do you want to go to Hawaii or California rather than a sober house in Texas? New state, we're going to try that. It's like, I've always wanted to live in California. I've got a brother out there and two brothers out there. Bryce was playing with the LA Rams at that time. So I went to a place called the Ohio House. I think the owner was a Buckeyes fan. And so I go to the Ohio House. Very nice, very, very nice. Very good programming. They take you to your IOP and they take you back to the sober house. So it's kind of like PHP kind of thing. But on steroids, they'll take you – like if there's work in a 10-mile radius, they'll take you there. Very great place. It's still open today. They had – I don't know if he works there anymore, but Jeremy Jackson from Baywatch. He's the little kid from Baywatch. He would come there and talk about fitness and stuff like that. Very smart man. And he does retreats and a bunch of stuff for young men and really good guy. I still connect with him today. He's a very cool person. so what happened was i got to this overhouse and i get on tender and then this let's go yeah this is how it all starts and there's older 45 ex-lawyer she has this nice beach house in long beach is what she told me we were talking for weeks and then she just started poisoning me about aa and about like free just crazy terrible place really should have because i really because she would send me paragraphs of really smart person but i should have connected the dots you'll you'll understand what when we get there so eventually i get to a point where i'm irritable rest discontent my best thinking is i am my parents are spending thousands because my insurance isn't covering out there my parents are spending an ungodly amount of money for me to you know try to stay sober and do the right thing and what i do is is every week they give you a grocery uh a card like 75 dollars for groceries and you can buy liquor in grocery stores in la so what i did and i had a a buddy mark who wasn't doing the right thing he actually gave me a ride to long beach so i got boo i got a bottle of booze and i met up with this person i was talking to her name's roxy let's go yeah that was her name i don't know what her real name is yeah let's go yeah but the thing is we facetimed a couple times our like video message and she's like she's gonna put makeup on looks like her photos this isn't a real catfish situation yet so i get dropped off at long beach and she's like waiting outside i was like and i'm already drunk i'm already like feeling it and then i see her and it's just this meth out demon of a person like you know the jitters the smell the sweat pours everything and she comes up like grabs me i'm so happy you're here we go up to her we go up to her room and did she have a room or it was a hotel room it was it wasn't a beach house it wasn't a beach house it was an apartment by the beach it was kind of run down long beach is a rough rough place yeah long beach is not real rough yeah is it bad it's pretty bad yeah and this is like you know i come from the suburbs of austin right yeah you know came from a good background i'm playing with fire here and i get that i'm like well i gotta play this game through all right so i entertain whatever she's doing we go upstairs her room is a she's got this gorgeous bed her like just really well organized room but the whole house there's little dogs chihuahuas barking really stressed messy in her kitchen and then she has drug dealers that live in this apartment too and so i had some money but not a lot and i bought uh like a bag of cocaine and then the the script started to uh started to flip then hey you owe me now like we need like you owe this person you owe that and i'm like what is going on you know and i'm like okay i guess i'll give this person that and then these drug dealers wouldn't leave and i felt very this is when i was like okay i need to probably get out of here yeah and i stay there and then uh they the drugs cocaine and then they bust out the meth so now we're smoking meth now we're now i'm drinking and now i'm all my guard is down i have no power at this point i'm not sober i am a weak person with chemicals all in my bloodstream right i am weak and so this woman who's just just disgusting it was like either okay either you gotta pay or we gotta have sex right here right now and then have all these people watch oh boy it was very weird that happened and they had got it was really weird i know which one i would have picked and then they were fucking yeah i was like all right i guess i don't have any oxys there's guns there's real evil here maybe i gotta yeah my way out of this one right yeah sorry sorry no i mean that look dude you're on two addicts of a moron yeah I know. I try to tell my mom. Bro, that's crazy. Yeah. The next couple of things that happen. So my phone is away. I'm getting phone calls from. I'm waiting to hear there was a casting couch there. It gets crazy. Listen to this. So my phone, I don't know where my phone is, but the sober houses are calling. My parents are calling because I have nowhere to be found. And I think I was warned of something. I was everything was turning on me the booze dehydration so I was just in a corner just like just a just a wreck yeah and I just hear these people talk I heard because she used to be a lawyer she could talk very well so she was oh so she really was a lawyer yeah she really was a lawyer because she had kids but she'd become this like meth out monster and um yeah that was crazy and then uh I heard her talking on my I didn't care but she was talking on my phone and then I I was like, I got to get out of here. So I had a little point where everyone was just lollygagging, looking somewhere. I had a little window to escape, and I grabbed whatever I needed, and I ran. And I heard, we're going to kill you, guns cocking. I thought I was going to get shot, but I just kept running and running and running down Long Beach. I had a little bit of money left. I found a Motel 6, got in there, hid. and and then i and then that guy who dropped me off mark met me at the motel room and i uh introduced him to meth because i had some meth with me i was like you want to do you want to try for the first time and he did it this is kind of a sad other story but like a year or two later his first time he did meth he ended up dying from drinking and meth and that that messed me up that whole i want to hear long beach it like i yeah cringe and the last the i got away So I go back to Ohio House, and that's how I figured out that it was a ransom situation. The people, God bless them. I couldn't imagine what they went through that night at Ohio House. I thought they were like, welcome back. We're so glad to have you back. Thank God you didn't die. No, it was like, what the – what did you just do? You put us through hell. You were held hostage, and they're asking for money for your life. So that's serious. That's just me being irritable, restless, just future tripping. Yeah. Put you into a real, real dangerous spot. Right. That could have gone very differently, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever told my story? Of being held hostage? No, no, no. You one-upped me on that one, brother. That was one of the crazies. When I got caught beating off. Yeah. Have I told that one? I don't know if you've ever told it on here, but you told me. Dude. i'm gonna say it real fast yeah it's a good one yeah same shit go for it man so i'm on facebook and this chick friend requests me when i'm high on meth really pretty girl right but this would happen all the time so i'm like checking her profile she lives here in austin blah blah blah looks like a normal person is a normal person so i thought so um we were friends on facebook for like three months just message here and there nothing nothing nothing and then one night at like 5 30 in the morning on a work night she messaged me and just so happened i was up because i was watching porn i mean i hadn't went to bed yet so she's like hey what are you doing i was like nothing i said i just woke up about to get ready for work and she's like oh i've been watching porn all night real horny i'm like me too so uh she's like you want to facetime me and i was like fuck yeah so now this is it i've never seen her i've just note so now this is going to prove that she really is a real person because who the fuck's going to facetime me right so she facetimes me and i get scared so i didn't answer it at first like holy shit she is real so then i call her back and we're talking but she can't talk this is where this was the first red flag she can't talk back and forth because her speakers broke on her phone so she has to type her responses back i'm like okay and so we're talking here and there and she's like you want to see my titties i'm like yes i do so she shows me her titties and she's like you want to see everything else i'm like absolutely so she shows me and she's like show me what you got i was like well i'm gonna do it well show it to me so i'm like teasing her right i got my phone like this i'm like so you want to see this and she's like yes so she's sitting there she's just going to town on herself right so i'm like fuck it i'm here so i start fucking beating off i've never told this on this so this is a meth story this is what the drug does i understand what you're saying So I'm beaten off, and then all of a sudden I've switched to my laptop instead of my phone because I want to see a bigger picture of her. Right. So I've got this laptop watching her, and she can – like I'm watching her, but on the screen on FaceTime, like she can see me beaten off too, right? And then all of a sudden the screen just goes to me just beating off, and I'm like – Ew. I'm like, what the fuck, right? I'm looking around my room like, is there a camera in here? Wow. Because it was from different angles that I wasn't showing a second ago. And then a thing comes on the screen that says, hey, we got you, motherfucker. You need to send us $3,000 or we're going to send this video to all your friends and family. So what they did was they had – what are those chat girls? They videoed a chat girl, and they made it look as if it was this girl. and the reason she wasn't talking back and forth to me because chat girls type on the fucking thing it was an 80 year old man yeah probably so so yeah so yeah so they were like you need to send us three the dude for like yeah for like 10 minutes i was like i'm fucked right my whole life is ruined and then i started thinking if i send them three thousand dollars it'll never it's never gonna stop yeah it won't stop so i just i just told the guy i said hey i'm not sending y'all shit and then all my friends and family come up like we're going to send this to your mom and your brother and your sister wow they had it really all they're all i was friends with her so she knew all my friends and family so i was like you know what send it i said because and they said don't fuck with this we're going to post it and i said did you see the size of my dick post that motherfucker i'm going to get so many more friend requests post away baby that's that's so for like two weeks i just ignored them and i was waiting for my mom to call and say michael why don't i just get a video of you beating off, but they never sent it to anybody. Now, the kicker is when I went to Solstice, I won't say the names. I'll say the first names, not last. There was two people at Solstice that that actually happened to, but one of them paid and then they got access to his account and wiped all of his money out. And then the other one, they posted on the Solstice website. It was Ben. I remember that story. I remember that story. Nice, Nick. Yeah, he'd come into work and they got, the person posted dick pics of him. And when he got to work, Cole was like, hey, nice dick. Yeah, he worked at Solstice, like one of the recovery specialists. Yeah, he was a Ben's great. Super awesome dude. But yeah when I told that story at Solstice Ben was like holy shit that happened to me And then the other person that I won say their name we not the other person uh yeah they they got access to their account took took all their money that crazy dude yeah yeah yeah they saying mething around the meth things the craziest thing happens when meth is involved yeah because it turns it gives you because when you do it because the first time i ever did it i talked i made amends with all my family i talked to them they say wow you sound great yeah it's the when you come down from it and then the trying to maintain that high is what you see on you know the god all that stuff that's what that is i used to tell people i was a philosophizer when it came to me a philosopher you were a philosopher i mean that's because i felt like i was so fucking smart right like everything like oh my god like brain blast it's like talking to chat gpt now like the shit that she throws at me i'm like holy of shit is she on mask that was amazing what she just said yeah but it used to make me think like i was so fucking smart yeah and then realizing now like man i wasn't that fucking smart like that was some stupid shit that like what a great idea let's leave sober living and yeah go to long beach and go find a cabana boy it was my idea that was the best thing and once you've seen her you was already in yeah no turning around no fucking i'm here yeah i had to play the game through yeah you know yeah And boy, did you. Holy shit. So I want to talk. So I have three brothers. Where are you in the pantheon of those three brothers? I'm the middle. So I got one younger, two older. One younger, two older. Okay. I've got two younger, one older. Yeah. I'm one of the middles too. Do you, and your brothers, and you are killing it now. I don't, but you weren't. No. For a hot minute. Very long time. you know, comparison is a thief of joy. You know, I've heard that. And do you think that your brother's successes around you, maybe even in addition to your dad's, I mean, do you, did you maybe feel a need to rebel against that in some form or fashion or? A hundred percent. All of us growing up, we had that 499 tackles. We had this goal to be, which is not my dad's fault. He just was great, right? He did something extraordinary. Something that no one will probably ever do. I don't think so. Ever. You know what I mean? Close. I mean, when did he leave UT? Yeah, like 89, I believe. But he left UT in 1989, and that record still stands today. Yeah, I don't even tell you. I think that record still, is that not the, for two years, I think that's a record in college. That's an NCAA record for sure. Yeah, I believe it is. But he's UT's all-time tackling leader. But it's not even close, dude. So that's 1989. So, again, continue with your story. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no, that's a great question because, yes, we all had the plan. We all went to Westlake. We all – Braun got a scholarship to North Texas. That didn't work out when Todd Dodge was there. but that didn't work out but seeing okay we're getting scholarship and then bryce a couple years i got a scholarship to baylor and then towards my senior year uh my the summer was also pretty crazy this is what really started all of it yes i uh comparing yes i i would in high school i was the chubbier one all my other brothers were i was a defensive lineman they were running backs linebackers you know great you know look great um and i was the big boy right and uh i loved that I loved playing defense tackle. I loved all of that. But what happened – there was a – I talked about it briefly last time. I went through a pretty bad breakup in high school or whatever, broken heart. You're so young. Life is over. Yeah, and in Lost Creek there's a four-way stop, and there's a new telephone pole there that in 2011, the summer of 2011, I got really drunk and was over the breakup. I wrecked into the telephone pole. My parents came home from dinner and saw my truck wrapped around the telephone. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I remember hearing that story. Yeah, so that story, and the next day playing football, you know, I don't blame anybody, right? I really don't. Because I was crazy. I did some crazy, very impulsive things, you know, like how could any parent react to that? So it's like, no, let's just, you know, play the football game the next day. and as as Baylor grew because when Bryce went to Baylor RG3 just got there they were they're playing at Floyd Casey Stadium yeah you know nothing that big but then he uh just started doing great Bryce started he redshirted then the sophomore he immediately started saw a lot of great football games and then then he went to the NFL which was a funny interesting night because i think the same night floyd mayweather and pacquiao fought and i was at a sober living at that time and uh my parents were throwing a draft party but also a party for the fight and i was at a sober living at the time and because uh from 19 till 20 not for 10 years i was in out sober houses rehabs 24 rehabs total just it's just insanity just cycles in cycles and uh Bryce got drafted to the St. Louis Rams um late late in the round but he still got drafted and me and my little brother for some reason we're fighting over the Pacquiao uh I think I like Pacquiao and he like Floyd and we ended up having this this brotherly fight or whatever we're drinking or whatever and it was uh and then I woke up the next day and I was like why did why did i drink you know yeah because at that point my parents were thinking like okay he just got in trouble for the law he got that you know drink you know let's not think he's an addict just yet because my mom's brother hardcore addict prison maybe they're at a point where they don't want to think about that yet but there were some times where like my dad would get you know get beer do what he the best he could you know because what can you do yeah i think as a dad too you want to have a beer with your son right like do you look forward to having a beer with your kid so i'll i'll i'll rewind it to like my dad nothing makes him happier than sitting down with his four boys and having a beer yeah right like i mean i i think since i've started doing this i i think about that a little bit differently with mine right but uh but i i it's fun it's funny how you just mentioned that, but being the middle kid too, like, you know, I've got brothers all around me. I'm the dick and fart joke guy, the chubby kid, the free thinker, and sort of the black sheep of the boys. And, yeah, they love me. It's not like they treat me like this leper. Right. You know, but it is. But they definitely, one of these things is not quite like the others. Right. Right. And I asked you that question because I get that feeling very much so from you too. 100%. I think that's why I get that kinship. To answer what you asked is, so eventually I go to rehabs again, and then we do a family program. We do a family program at the last resort. This was tough. This was hard. I've never done a family program before. They do family sculpting. And what they do at TLR was – that was the most powerful form of therapy I think I've ever heard. That's got to be hard. So my whole family comes. I thought it was just going to my mom and dad, my brother, my sister-in-laws, my oldest brother. Everyone came, I believe, besides my oldest brother, Alexandra, my other sister-in-law. They were all there, and then those parts – like it was after the sculpting. I was like, okay, that's the hardest part. But they did one more thing the next day, the last day of the family program, where we all sat individually with our families, with the therapists. And there were just a couple of questions that you had to answer, and we all went through them together. So I was like, oh, this is going to be light. We're just going to say, yeah, I want you to be sober, blah, blah, blah. But out of all my family, they were all good. But Bryce, my brother Bryce, started crying, and he's like, I just don't want you to resent what I do. He was in the NFL at that time. I would lash out. I would lash out at him. I'd lash out at my little brother. Say horrible things to them. Was your little brother at UT yet, or was he just now coming through? He was at UT. He was probably a junior. Yeah, he was probably a junior or sophomore around this time. I got you. This was right before I went to California. And, man, that blew me away. I'd never seen my brother cry before because Bryce is a lot like my dad, a lot like my dad. He's a person who's humble, very – doesn't address elephants in the room. Stoic. Stoic, yeah. Like your dad's one of the more stoic dudes that I've ever met. Yeah, Bryce is a lot like that too. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And he got that freak gene. We all got a little bit of it, but Bryce really got the dose of that 4, 440 on grass without warming up gene. Yeah. And strength. I remember I would wrestle with him, and I'd feel his strength and be like, this is a different thing. Yeah, no, this is a different human. Yeah. So, yeah, that was intense. And seeing this big, strong man cry, I almost threw up after it. Like I was so emotional. I was so sick with myself. Yeah. But that alone didn't keep me sober. I still had another seven or eight years or five or six years of trying to fall forward and learn, learning experiences. But they're great now, man. I was never truly – I was always so proud of my brothers. They did incredible things. Breckin, since he was a little kid, said he was going to play at Texas. He was going to do all these extraordinary things, and he's doing them. The power of believing in yourself, the power and all of that. And seeing Brecken, because he committed to Baylor with Art Bryles. And then Charlie Strong called him and said, do you want to be a Longhorn? And he had to verbally tell Baylor, like, hey, this is my dream. I've got to go to Texas. I've got to try to fulfill this. Because he always wanted to wear the number 60. And then for, because that's the number they retired for Tommy Novus and my dad. And then Brecken got to wear it on a couple of bowl games. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, which is, like, that's amazing. That is like every young man, sports fanatic's dream. So like I take all that for granted. People are like, what is it like doing this? It's like for the most of my 20s, I didn't enjoy it. I was just jealous and envious and also battling this thing. But when it really comes down to braving my soul, who I am, I am so proud of them. Everything they do, I promote it. I talk about it. Brecken's really good now. He doesn't do social media. He just does his own thing. He just did a documentary called Born in Denver last year. It's on Apple TV. You can watch it, and it's about Pecos, Texas and the cryptocurrency coming up in there. It's really cool. If you want to know about Pecos, Texas, it's basically where Cowboys started, where the rodeo started. I never knew that, and it's a great documentary about it, and I'm just really, really proud of him. But it took you a while to get there. Oh, it took me a while. The comparison is great. Yeah, look, dude. My brothers are great, right? and they're killing it and all of that. But when you're not, you know, or what, not that I wasn't, but when you're maybe you're not perceived to be doing as good as the people around you. Right. You know, that that's a weight. Yeah. Yeah. It's a weight. And I like, I think about a lot of the awful shit that I used to say to my brothers, not being an addict. Right. just because of the jealousy factor. And so I could not imagine, like, if my brothers were getting drafted to the NFL. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Just watching that, that would all. What do your brothers do? They play in the NFL. Yeah, dude. I mean, what the fuck? Like, what happened? It made me cool in rehab. Like, dude, we'd watch a game. What's your brother? No way. I tried to stop doing that. Like the last five, because at first I was like, you know, I want to introduce myself as this is my dad. And so everyone will like me. It's also like a shield I used, you know, like for sure. So it's like a conversation. Yeah. Like that's my dad. Exactly. And now it's like I'm learning that people I love myself so people can love me now, too, for who I am. You know, I don't have to say I'm Brett Hager's son. It's like, you know, I'm just braving. Braving. We all have our own journey. And man, it's been a long one. But I love it. It's everything that the big book and AA and Christianity, all those promises are true. But you have to do the action step by step. Like my faith, like I wasn't a Christian for so long. And then someone says, like, have you ever tried to be a Christian? Are you tried to do AA? Have you ever tried these things? Like, yeah, I've been to meetings and I know what it's about. But like, have you actually internalized the formula? Yeah. Yeah, because the Alice Cooper thing about he said Jesus just took it out of him. Yeah, I feel the same exact way. And it's the same experience. So isn't that proof enough that like if you it's action. So if you don't want to want to work for something, then you're just going to you're just going to implode in in the flesh. You know, you got to live in some type of spiritual realm, whatever that looks like. There's because I know people are turned off by Christianity. I'm not because I've had great experiences with it. blah blah so i'm sad for people who turn their back on that and thank god that my wife didn't because when her brother died from alcoholism after her trying to pray and all that i thought she'd say you know f god f everything but she is more interested in god than ever yeah my kids are asking me about god and i'm not even it's the attraction rather than promotion is so big like i'm not gonna go stand outside uh so i went to go see morgan wallen a couple months ago nice and there was somebody talk like preaching outside of a morgan wall concert like this is not how you do it this isn't a devil worshiper this is a guy who sings about good times and i believe he's a christian himself so that's that's not a that's promoting that's not attractive what is attractive is hearing a rock star like alice cooper talk about jesus you know it's kind of crazy that you mentioned that but like one of my favorite bands of all time slayer yeah right and a couple of them are pretty Satanist dudes. Oh, yeah. For sure. Harry King? Yeah, Harry King is a very Satanist guy. Oh, I love Slayer, yeah. However, Tom Mariah is not the lead singer. He's very, he's a devout, like, yes, he's singing about some crazy shit, right? And they were the poster child back in the day of, like, the dude in front of the past years, and I'm like, do you really think you are going to affect one of these kids going in to see that band? Yeah. No. way you're just gonna you're giving them something to flip off yeah like you're giving them something to go fuck yourself right this is ultimate rebellion going on inside of this building and you're gonna stand outside of it and be like don't go in here like there's no way you know what i mean like yeah go fuck fuck you dude yeah but i i watched tom mariah speak he did it in an interview where he was like like hey man you you know what's your uh what's your religious background he goes catholic it was still today that's so cool though yeah i thought that was awesome because i didn't realize that i thought they were all like yeah just rain and blood south of heaven atheist guys you know it's like and uh and he was like so you know your your big song out right now is God hates us all. He's like, so what's up with that? He was like, man, God doesn't hate. It's just a great fucking rock title, man. He's like, I'm in a rock band. I could separate the art from what I believe, and he's like, Carrie believes that shit. I don't, but we can sit down and talk about it, and I can single it. And to me, I think that's, I thought that was the coolest thing I ever heard. and probably if young kids who love Slayer just like I did were watching that guy in that interview that are now grown up and they were like oh probably did way more than the dudes in front of their concerts like going stop but because of what you just said the attraction not the prevent defense the hither wither stuff Yeah, dude, get out of here. Get out of here with that. That's not going to help. That's such a good point because I like to listen. Because I lived – I grew up a non-denominational church or whatever, and then once I started doing drugs – because you drink and you do a drug and you feel something. You feel relief. You feel that answered – whatever, the comfort that you want when you don't have the drugs in you. The painkiller, dude. It's the painkiller. Yeah, exactly. The painkiller. And, uh, I don't know, it could just take such a, such a mental toll on you. And I turned my back on it. And then the last, since I, the last, since my daughter was born, I've really, you know, when you have kids, you really have to stand for something. You really have to be a man of integrity and honor. And you're going to have people who disagree with you. And for the longest time, I wanted to be loved by everyone. And I have friends that I've all, you know, atheist friends. I have, you know, all, all types of friends. And I try to like for me, like I listen to people who aren't Christians. I listen to Bill Maher all the time to hear like, but he's reasonable. He's open for conversation. That's how you do it rather than, hey, worship Jesus now or you're going to burn in hell outside of a Morgan Wallen concert. That's not how you do it. How you do it is like, like, OK, so wait, you had a horrible life drinking and drugging. And now you're you know, now you're on podcast episodes. Now you have kids. Now you have a house. You have goals. you have a life that you want to get sober for and that's how you do it and young men like you're gonna have to go through a point where you're gonna do hard labor hard you just got to go through it you know especially young men in recovery that are at a sober house that was me all of my 1920 i would just sit in the sober house watch movies do nothing you know get a job here that wasn't really passionate about and i would i'd wonder why i relapsed again you know there was no uh I never really tried. I never really gave faith because I say that in AA faith without works is dead, you know, and and I can see how people get turned off by it's any organized religion, whatever. There's going to be extremism of it. There's going to be something that turns you off about it. But what can we all like we focus on the disagreement so much? Why can't we just focus on what we do agree on, which is like we all need to get sober. we all you know let's stop messing our lives up let's stop hurting everybody that we love and i'm not perfect i have moments where i'm just my emotional sobriety is terrible i'm yelling at my kids for no reason i am horrible to my wife like for no reason last night just here talking on the phone i said my daughter was doing something i don't remember what she did yeah and i was like do you ever just want to slap the shit out of your kids and he's like every fucking day yeah And mine's 1723. And I was like, yeah, dude, that shit doesn't go away. The minute they start talking, like in any kind of sentence, all the way through, like my dad probably wants to slap shit out of me like 87 times when we're hanging out. You know, I got it. It's just that's never going to go away. And you have to be the guy that says no all the time. And that kind of gets to me. I don't I feel like I'm the party pooper. Yeah. See, so that was a problem for me because she went through my addiction for six and a half of the years. Wow. So when I got sober, six and a half, yeah, six and a half, six years. And when I got sober, I felt like I owed her so much because I put her through so much shit that I literally just fucking spoiled the shit out of her and just gave her whatever she wanted. Right. And now Destiny's actually helped me with this a lot. Haven's helped me a lot. And her mom, her mom, Kalen's mom used to call me and say, hey, you got to stop fucking doing this because when she's with me and she asked for something and I'm like, no, I'm not going to get that for you. She'll be like, well, my dad will get it for me. I'll just ask him. And I was chopping everybody's legs out from underneath them and not making her work for shit. So that's something I've had to change this year. Right. And it sucks. Yeah. I'm going to tell her like, no, you haven't. I have you earned it. Right. Right. I used to hear Charlie Kirk. he's talked about i mean he's got plenty of money right but when his kids would ask for something he would ask them what did did you earn it this is nice yeah did you earn it and they were like well did you clean your room today did you do this so you haven't earned it so tell me come back to me when you've earned it so that's something i've been trying to work with or something you said about god was um you know when i first got an aa that's always a big deal like some people don't want to hear about god so they talked about the higher power yeah and i think that for me i can't speak for everybody else but i used to wonder like why does everybody hate god so much yeah when they come in here like especially the bolding group right man like why do they hate god so much and i think for me i used to blame him on some of the shit that would happen to me even though it was my choice that i was doing this like how can you put me in this bad position with me and you know like when i got caught beating off i'm sure i blamed god like thanks bro thanks brother you couldn't tell me this was a fake person yeah but i think that that's how people get into the program and i think that's one of the things that they say hey you don't it's just got to be someone a power greater than yourself right and i hope for the most part that that turns into someone's god yeah rather than a doorknob or whatever it is that was so misleading for me for so long because i was like yeah i don't want to do because i did the christian when i really did and i was just a kid that didn't like to go to church right what kind of practice is that right what kind of conviction is that yeah so and i'd hear all this like i remember i was at bolton one time and this guy had a share and he's like i was with this little girl and the little girl said like he was at mcdonald's or something and people in front of him was a little girl and a dad and the little girl said does jesus love me and the dad said absolutely and then the guy was like i couldn't believe that like load of nonsense and everyone laughed and i was like so this is just like an anti-jesus yeah we're doing okay yeah but that was a long time ago that you know it's it's getting worse with that with with the christians and stuff like that which is interesting it's such a powerful name like when you say when you talk about you feel it you know yeah i don't know and i don't like i'm not going to try to convert it but i will say i believe in jesus that's what i'm supposed to do as a christian you know and i love reading my bible i i always thought that was a chore but now on my lock screen there'll be a verse and that verse always lines up with what i'm going with so what's that yeah well we talked about it today when you were you were driving in how our lives you're almost three years sober right yes i'm almost four years sober and like the things that have lined up in that small amount of time frame yeah and how they're still lining up and how we're we're still getting our life back per se but now we're getting to points that we were never at even before i was on drugs right and those are the promises that they talk about and that to me that's always that's just god working like that's how he works is i always said i heard this lady say one time like i lost everything in my addiction i don't need to get everything back god's going to give me what i need back i don't not there's a lot of things i want back but he's going to give me all the things that i need rather than things that i want and i think like when i start seeing those miracles and those promises and my buddy that i went to rehab with remember mickey yeah mickey of course mickey used to always say that coincidences are miracles when god chooses to remain anonymous and when i start seeing all those coincidences like man that's got it like that doesn't make any sense that's got to be how god works right and those are what i call miracles now absolutely oh love you mickey if you watch the just uh because i i did i uh i talked to him about a little bit last time i'll talk about him again there was a counselor i love this man he's not a christian he's a buddhist chris shanks taught me about meditation taught me about ecartole i remember the ecartole is an author he wrote a book called a new world and the power of now just being in the present moment how to actually meditate um and the first time chris shanks talked about like detaching from thoughts and thoughts like he will teach you like i will advertise because he's a counselor still definitely if you don't know if you are just racing thoughts and have no idea how to meditate call up chris shanks he's the best um because he will teach you how to how to really meditate and it's real i only do it for five minutes a day and it's just feel feeling your breath and it'll the amount because being a father you understand being a father business balance money it's so overwhelming for anybody too much weight so either work out or meditate because right because that stuff will implode you gotta you gotta talk because or and you gotta detach because when you attach on a thought because you can't control your thoughts you know you can't you don't know what you're gonna think about in the next 20 seconds no no one does and it's not about turning your brain off it's about detaching from the just the just the traffic of thoughts that you get on a day and he says in such a beautiful way and i that helped me a lot and it helps a lot of people people are mindful and that's how they do recovery but for me i like i like that but i i needed a little bit more because i was starting to hear things not like hearing from god's trumpets or anything like that but i had intent like a feeling a con like just like i don't know i just need to go back i need to go back to this religion this relationship i don even look at it as a religion anymore it more of a relationship A relationship Than a religion Like a father Exactly Those are the strongest so I very agnostic Yeah. Like at some point science stops explaining shit. Right. Like at some point. Yeah. So like I can't just be an atheist and say that it doesn't exist. But I'll just tell this quick story. I was being confirmed Catholic. and my birthday is on april 19th and it that is the same day as the koresh compound burning down and the oklahoma city bombing all that kind of stuff was happening on my birthday well i was in confirmation during the koresh compound shit so i like paid attention like 13 years old yeah and i remember having this thought and i was like well this dude's like claiming a lot of the same things that Jesus is claiming. There's some parallels there, but that guy's crazy. And that one's the savior. Yeah. Like I, and it wasn't like me, this made me a dick for the next, like where I was arguing against religious people forever after that. But I sat in a like little group where I asked that question to the, the priest and the people that were, and dude, they did not even acknowledge the question. They just blew right by that. they were like and then so i was like oh so this place just doesn't like fucking questions yeah like they're like i can have no questions i just have to do it at the time i'm listening to slayer and punk rock and shit i'm like oh fuck you're i'm out like i'm gonna do this so my mom doesn't yell at me and then i'm getting the fuck out of this yeah yeah and then it like then it was like a crusade for the next several years to argue against anybody who was remotely christian yeah right and i was just being an asshole but no me too i did that all in my 20s as well right very rebellious i would go to aussie osborne concerts and say this is what this is what life is also a very christian man yeah like one of the most christian men you'll ever come across so i when When I became older, I stopped doing that. I was like, you know what? My brother, my sister-in-law, they're very Catholic, super Catholic people, and they're very devout. And I love them to death. I'm like, look, if that helps you be the person that I love, keep doing it. Or whatever it is. If it's Allah, if it's Buddha, it's whoever. Right. But I always think about that, you know, talking about 12 steps and the higher power. I just haven't identified mine. I believe it's there. Right. But I don't know what to call it. I don't know how to identify it. I acknowledge that it's there and all these things. But being younger when I was it, I don't know if I would if I would have gotten addicted to something. i don't i don't know that i would have made it right because of because of that yeah so what i heard you just say something here a little bit ago it seems like they're in these rooms like there's a lot of people trying to get away from that like that might be the hot topic yeah discussion right this like fork in the road of like oh you're telling me you have to be christian it's not what we're saying man like yeah calm down like but is that yeah fair to say very fair to say and it's all what's coming to my mind is uh i'm not i wasn't growing up catholic or anything like that but i do my uh oldest brother and alexander i know their family is catholic and they had a catholic wedding so it's a lot of a lot of pageantry a lot of you know uh the priest and all that and god gave us free will so i guess run every church how you want to but i can see how that because it's long i can see how that can turn off young minds you know i can see how that will be like oh this is hateful you won't even answer my question about god so you know like yeah i just have a question asking a question and then someone calling you names for it is the most insane thing that's going on in our world right like you can question anything you want especially in america right so for a church and you were like i was like 13 13 13 young mind or 14 that's crazy that that is yeah that is that is not what it is all about but that the the rooms i'm not there's a lot of great rooms there's a lot of great meetings you get to a point in your i know mike could say this like you get to a point where you're not going to meetings all the time anymore you know you're starting you you got you know what you have to do and it's just showing up and handling your emotions at a certain point because the first year was wild man yeah ups and downs and I needed meetings. I needed the therapy. I even needed some medications, to be honest with y'all. But as a, I don't know, it's just, I'm so blessed and so grateful that things happened. You know, things, big things happen, like rest in peace, Tristan died, my brother-in-law. That was the most insane mirror to look at and the most, because I've lost, we've lost so many. We've talked about that. but I lived with this person for multiple years. We all worked together. We live on the same roof. We all tried to build this diving company up together. There was a lot of, you know, messy stuff. Nothing. Nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. Whatever. We all tried to help him out. And then he just, and things, he just dies. Right. And it's, I mean, it never gets better, I guess, for them, the grief. Like I have, you know, I, I'm, you know, cause I'm, I have the kids. I have, I have bills. So I have so much weight and worry to have. And I'm empathetic, too. So I so I feel bad when I chop off empathy for it and focus on, you know, we got to build this family. We got to be conservative. We got to conserve. We got to build because I love and I think about that at night. I'm like, was I too mean to them? Was I? Yeah. Being a father, I think every man should go through it, man. It's like it's not like having a dog. It's not like it. It is a little human that will wear you out on a daily basis, that will constantly ask you questions. They will know if you're not, like, right. Like, if – because I will get irritable, restless, and discontent sometimes. You know, I'm a human being, too. We're human beings. Yeah. And that's the biggest thing that – like, I'm learning how to be a human for the first time in my life. Yeah. Like, taxes, paying bills. And I make – Finally paid him after 10 years. Like I'm so responsible now that like when I first get paid, I'm like we are paying off all of our credit cards. That's the first thing because that credit – I think credit is everything now. Like we talked about it before here. It's just fun. I can't believe I'm getting loans right now. We were talking about it earlier when we were on the phone when I first started rebuilding my credit in recovery. He even asked me the other day, why do you have so many fucking credit cards? Because when people started approving me, even if it's for $300, I was like, yes. Yes. Yeah. And now I've got like 10 fucking credit cards and some of them are like 300 bucks. Some are 500. I've got to go through and their interest is probably 30%. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I need to go through and like she told me the other day, she said, why don't you cancel some of them? Like that's what I need to literally go through and cancel. Something you just said, I do this especially now is when my daughter's with me and when it's like 10 or 11 o'clock and she's sleeping, I'll sit here and ask myself, did I spend enough time with her today? and I've never done that before. It's just something that I've been doing the last few months, and I will sit here and say, well, did I play with her enough? Did I spend enough time with her? Did I do anything fun with her? And some days that I feel like I wasn't present enough, I'll go and wake her up, and I'll say, hey, let's watch something for 30 minutes or something. Let's watch one of your shows. That's something totally new to me, where before, I was just going to bed. The day's over. I'm glad that she was in there. You guys just wait. That song, The Cat's in the Cradle, is real shit, dude. I mean, it's fighting when they're young. You're like, am I spending enough time with you? I might not be. I might. But I'll probably be second guessing it if I'm any kind of good father or mother. whichever, but, like, now my son is 17, and I've got to beg that dude to come hang out with me. Oh, that's right. So it's, like, now it's, like. Oh, like, they're not, like, Daddy, run it. It's, like, you're, like, oh, all right, I'll come over and fucking sit there and we'll do whatever. Like, you know. But, yeah, so it's going to come to that circle where it's going to be, like, that's really when you think about it yeah when kaylin is now 17 has her car out there driving doesn't want to hang out with you at all anymore then you'll be thinking even harder yeah so it's good that you're doing that small doses yeah because it's coming worse because it will there's going to come a day when your kids get older yeah and they're you're just not the coolest person anymore you're not and it's every day they get older the measurement of time with kids is insane It's insane, dude. It's insane. Like, I mean, think about how your dad looks at you. He still looks at you like you're a little kid. Wow. Probably half the time, right? Yeah. And I do that with my son. Yeah. Like, I look at him, and, like, I sent him a video of him the very first time he got a hit in a baseball game, in a T-ball game. Yeah. And I was like, this is, I don't give a shit how far you ever hit a ball or wherever you go. Yeah. This is the dude that I see every time. Yeah. Big helmet, pajamas, can barely fucking run. So I have to do shit like that to create time or create some quality time with him now because, I mean, he's out there doing his own thing. Yeah. That's only going to get worse. Thanks for letting us know what we've got to look forward to. Yeah. So enjoy that. I'm saying, like, enjoy those. Enjoy the years that's coming sooner than you think. Years, you got very small children right now, man. But take it all in because it's even the times where you're frustrated. Think about that. Think about them when they're 18. And I don't want anything to do with you anymore. It's because, like, my daughter, she just went potty for the first time. So now she's not going to be in diapers anymore. So it's like, so I just have one baby left now. And he's like a toddler now. I know, dude. And it's going to be our last one. And because I get four is like, like anyone who has more than four kids, I like. Dude. Yeah. How many do you have? I have two step kids and two biological kids. Yeah, that's four. Yeah, that's four. You have four kids. Yeah. And that, I mean, you ever think like people who have nine kids, like Philip Rivers. He has like 47 kids. Whatever the hell he's got. He's got the money to do it. But you know this as well as anybody. Being a parent has very little to do with money. It's like keeping up with relationships and what they like and what they need. It's the emotional tax that you have to pay for caring about something so much more than you care about yourself. right and that has nothing to do with the money because like like you just said i will go scrape barnacles off of the bottom of a boat right to provide for you i don't care what i have to do whatever it makes that happen like that's the barrier to entry yeah right but it's everything else that goes along with it yeah so you were sober when kids started coming around so this is like me and taylor have only been together for three years so like right when you got yeah so right when i yeah uh so when i first met taylor she had uh holland bane they were on a set of irish trends they were two and one okay so and her like me and her connect because i would be in silver houses match on tinder and then never meet up and taylor was she just kind kidnapped yeah kidnapped and help for ransom it wasn't none of that they can't all be winners man you know i remember when you're when you're your dad came on he was like braven was finally he was doing great and then he met this taylor chick and he's like i'm fucking moving to houston yeah like what the fuck like yeah you're doing so good like why are you gonna go but like even your dad said then that's the best thing that's ever happened to you what i can say about it now because i did i had a sales job at clean cause i had like a sales manager job I had my own route. I had, like, great. But I knew because I was in a sober living, and the same old stuff was happening. The irritabilities, the me just, you know, they're the problem, and I was just close. So it was like a Hail Mary. Like, I am just going to go move to this woman or parent's house and help them with diving so I don't have to be in a sober living. That's what it was first, and we had a great, powerful connection. then we got we got pregnant which i what we wanted i want i've always wanted to be a dad maybe not be the right way to do it just go with no plan nothing yeah but as it happened as because no one's prepared to have a kid zero zero right and it just became a point of measurement of like it was just like i i can't be selfish anymore because as an addict you're super selfish as a human being you're selfish yeah you think about you and your little world and your little head but when they come and you see them so no i when fia was born i haven't had a drink and she's she's about to be three years old nice so we're about to so i'm 30 months sober yeah and uh it's it's it's i feel like i'm a different totally different that's the longest time you've went right oh yeah my my longest before this would be six seven months if that yeah if that i had just i I always want to be a dad, but I've always wanted to do something kind of like my dad, a record or some type of impact, not necessarily with sports, but something. Last weekend, I did a powerlifting meet, and it was super fun. I was at Apex Gym. The funny thing happened is the first lift I did, I pulled a muscle on my back, and I almost quit. My whole family said, I almost quit. I almost told the kids to go home. Oh, you were powerlifting. Yeah, I was powerlifting. When you told me, because we were going to do the podcast last week. Yeah. And you were like, I got a powerlifting meet. I didn't know if you were doing it for yourself. Yeah. Or if you were coaching somebody. That's something you should probably look into too. Yeah. Is coaching. Yeah, for sure. I love lifting weights. I love seeing what your body can do and how hard you can push yourself. And from a person-to-person basis, I think that's really fascinating. And powerlifting as a sport is super cool because you really have to be mindful of your starting. because there's three lifts and there's three times you do those lifts you gotta have a starting weight a middle weight and then what you're gonna finish right so that i didn't really mentally prepare for it and i broke my back uh like l4 l5 it was a small break um but part of my spine went through my sciatic nerve and all they had to do i had to get surgery they just took off that little piece of uh spine shout out dr wilperman and he um shaved down my disc so it immediate relief but i was like i'm staying away from squat forever and i did and i haven't squatted but the power was me i was like yeah i'll just do 300 pounds and i practice it just 300 pounds beforehand it's just a practice starting weight but how you lift is they judge when you're like because this is how low i need to go for squat right because it's vertical and i'm taller it's like you're sitting in a chair and then standing up yeah he had me at this position for so long and i was like dude i can feel my hips and my thighs touching so i'm i know you're the judge but you need to tell me to come up so i got frustrated and he said all right take it and i got fatigued and i pulled a muscle in my back so i got scared i thought it broke my back again my kids were here and then for that was only like three minutes of just me being a complete child you know the complete malady just leave you know but then i was like you know what i'm gonna feel so much worse if i quit this yeah and then feel bad about it so i went back then they had two side events pull-ups and uh this tire flip so i was like i'm just gonna do because i can i'm really good at pull-ups i'm just gonna go do it i've watched some of your videos those are fucking that is that is what's helped pull-ups is what's got me the strongest like learn how to do a pull-up and you can do anything i fucking hate pull-ups so did i i hated all that i hate them because i'm a big guy and when you see me in the gym you're probably like man he fucking lifts a lot yeah watch me do pull-ups i'm fucking do like five and it's about it i like it's but it's nothing i work It's like what you said. You go to church, but are you really going to church? Yeah. I go to the gym, but do I really work on pull-ups? Yeah. No, it's the same thing, man. It's probably the best back workout that you can do. Oh, it's the best full body. Yeah. Like arms, back, shoulders. Yeah, it really stretches you out. Yeah. So I did that, and I got like 12, 13 reps, and I was like, okay, so I'm top there. So I got my confidence back, and then I did the bench. So I finished it out, and I did really well for not doing it in a long time. I did really well for hurting my back in the beginning and mentally the big I was so proud because my kids were there and they they thought I was like Superman like how I thought my dad was you know and I want that for them you know I want them because I respect I love my parents so much they're still hard like my mom winning awards left and right for real estate here in Austin really just go-getters you know and and I feel because my I know people and I'm so sorry for the people that didn't have that kind of leadership parents because i don't know what that's like um but still again i still was an addict you know i had it like i said in the beginning you know it doesn't matter where you come from but like when you get sober you get really get to you really get to uh i don't know you get to take in all your blessings you really get to see and i and i'm really i don't know this last year just been awakening of appreciation and um and i don't know Like I said, you really have to start standing for something, especially when you have a kid and especially when you have to make adult decisions on a day-to-day basis. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be the president. Because being a parent, you have to be kind of political. Like, do we do this? Are those people okay? Where do we need to move? Well, you think about telling your kid no. Yeah. It's like, fuck. Can you imagine if you were over 1,000 people? You're not going to make everybody happy. No. You're going to piss some fucking people off. And the president pisses half the people off. Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. Billions of people. Hundreds of millions of people. Even just saying, like, I'm a Christian will be like, oh, this guy is. I don't want to listen to anything he says now. Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. So you're one of the rare. I mean, I think it's fair to say you might feel different. but I think it's fair to say that you had a strong parent, both parents, in the house the whole time. A lot of times when we're talking to people, there is a clear absence of either one parent or they're both present but not really present. I would say 95% of people. I would say you're one of the few. I feel like, I mean, I'm trying to think of right off the top of my head, and I feel like that's always like a common thread. Of all the names on the wall, there might be two or three that actually like had a solid foundation. Had like both parents in their lives, and you still figured out a way to become an addict, right? which tells me that it's that to me that there's no real uh definitive answer as to why someone becomes an addict yeah there isn't i like and i don't think there ever will be which is that fascinates me yeah about this and that's like kind of what keeps me in this chair and asking the questions all the time is but i man i still feel like without the good strong relationship with parents i still feel like they're you know the people who don't have that have such a higher risk of becoming yeah an addict you know i think becoming a lot of things yeah right ben shapiro he had he's a stats guy and i don't know what the stat was but like the likelihood of you going to prison or not going to college or this or that is so far down when one parent's absent like it's like the the odds are stacked far against you when when one parent's not as is absent or if you come from a single parent home uh it's definitely better when you come from both obviously um you know but as you said earlier you know addiction is not prejudice doesn't matter care if you're male or female or if you fucking come from high society or low society it's fucking if it gets you it gets you right once it gets a hold of you it's the strongest grip that i've ever had on me in the biggest like people who have the resources to go to 24 rehabs or people who've been to rehab more than me aren't here like the guy who mark the guy who i showed met him for the first time he was such a like i took him to because at that time the rams were practicing by our sober house so i took him over there he met bryce bryce really like really cool guy yeah really cool guy really nice guy but he you know he he's dead you know and um because you know because that cycle of like having that safety oh if i relapse i'm just going to go to this next comfy sober house yeah so that was a thing i was institutionalized was that a lot of you two did you know mom and dad were going to oh yeah yeah but then the last you out well solstice helped me with that because solstice thank you cole thank you and brandon those two are saints they are saints here in austin texas brandon gwen and cole shiflett man they there's been about four out of like six or seven times i've been to rehab they completely free yeah you know because they cared and solstice went down because of that because cool had too big of a heart you know and yeah that's how treatment should be ran as non-profit um keep the i don't know because it's like you said it's you know we're beyond human aid humans cannot defeat the spiritual malady this beast so how you fight it is with spirituality is with the connection of something stronger than it because it's like a furnace that you can never put out it's like chris farley's brothers are uh dan akroyd about chris farley's documentary they said it was he just had like a furnace like you just fed it something and just burned it you know like food drugs he just said he had the biggest and that's what it is it's just this like you're just so unsatisfied and so selfish that you're just like i'm just gonna put a needle in my arm i'm gonna drink this whole bottle and it's gonna make everything go away at that moment you don't think about the hangover you don't think about the i'm going to be broke and i'm going to be look at my wallet there's this one dollar bill i can't even get cigarettes now and are the people i'm going to step on to get that drug yeah and then you become my biggest yeah then you become a shitty person and do really sketchy things yeah but the the wisdom that comes out on the other side of that from like you for certain yeah but you you for certain too but nearly everybody that has sat on that chair that I've gotten to know well, you know, are so wise beyond their years. And it only it it only happened because of the the dark shit that they had to walk through to get there. And, you know, we were talking about Ethan Hawke being on and he said it. He was I mean, he said that, too. He said that the wisest people that I know and being smart and being wise are two different things. Right. You can be smart and not wise. Yeah. I see it all the time. Not be very smart. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all do. Everybody sees that. Right. Yeah. But like I would never want my kid to be an addict, though. Yeah. I would never want that. but everybody that I meet who was and has come out on the other end is such a fucking good wise person yeah yeah you know for the most part it's it's like an ultimate conundrum and you get humbled more than you get out it's just yeah it's because you I don't know I'll speak from my experience for me I just why why can't I do this why like why is this bad I had to learn the hard way and we all dude yeah like every one of us yeah just even if it's like wait so and the thing of the scary thing about going into rehab and certain rehabs is especially if it's not ran well people will glorify it and like someone was just an alcoholic hearing some guy talk about meth and you know and having this crazy you know sex meth fueled binge that he misses the oh i want to try that that sounds good and then yeah next thing you know someone who just or pot i been in rehab people we were just in there for pot and then they end up like What your feeling about that Marijuana I think marijuana is incredible I don't do it. I don't personally do it. I used to. If I tried it, it would just probably give me a huge panic attack now. But I think it's way better than opiates. I think it's going to – the bill that Trump passed is genius. He's going to empty out prisons. is gonna it's gonna as for in the uh category of recovery i think it's way healthier if there was like a mat program with that rather than like suboxone or an opiate because it's from the ground you know it's it's not it's i don't think marijuana is that big of a deal i know people do and that's totally fine um because there's been moments where i almost picked up heroin instead i smoked pot and i was just happy i went to bed and the next day i'm like oh why do i want to shoot so i i think it can be very beneficial for for a lot of things yeah dude pot's that weird thing to me and i've heard a lot of people talk about it they were like man every time i you talk about it like i fucking trips me out yeah if i did it i'd have a huge pro it always trips me out when i hear people doing it all together when i hear people's stories like when they had bad acid trips or bad mushroom trips that's every time i've ever smoked marijuana yeah like it fucking puts me in such a weird place yeah like you can feel everything like you don't want to be around me because i'm i'm gonna be that fucking weird guy yeah and i'm not a weird guy i'm fucking i'd like to think i'm pretty cool i was always cool to do drugs with yeah but when it came to marijuana yeah like if a girl if i was trying to take a chick home and she's like hey you want to smoke this i'm not going to say no to it yeah but i'll automatically know that my chances of fucking go down to nothing because once i smoke this with you i'm gonna fuck it like i'm gonna weird you out yeah it's i'm gonna be too weird what do you think that is because some people like they like i wish that i felt like these people that like i smoke a little bit and go have a good time and i can go shopping. I can go about my day. It's like, dude, I am having conversations with myself about how good of a father I am every time I've smoked weed. I swear to God, dude. And then it's like, what's making me weird is you're a bad dad. I'm like, no, I'm not. I know I'm not. Now I'm having this weird inner fight with myself about, like, dude, you're just a bad human being. Like, huh? Like that fucking Ren guy, the the rend uh video have you seen that that dude like having the conversation with themselves yeah uh i get that's exactly my life on whenever i've smoked weed i had to stop me in such weird trances i think people who have add or adhd or fast-paced mind i think it because it kind of like uh illuminates everything you know like sound taste thoughts i get i get inward you get very inward and then you become frozen yeah that happens to me too that's why i don't do it that's why i don't smoke it one of the reasons i enjoyed doing meth so much is because i have adhd and instead of boosting me up it would actually calm me down yeah she said and that maybe that's why weed would fucking because weeds are calmer downer yeah but maybe that's why it fucking just made me fucking like that like being in control yeah but she said like when the reason i enjoyed meth so much or that's what her theory was was because my adhd is so high that it would actually calm me down yeah the way that like adderall probably yeah yeah our vivence whatever absolutely but vivence the funny thing is i had uh my because i've been a down downer guy but once i tried meth i was like this just kind of beats everything because it's so it's so powerful it's so powerful and you can be homeless on it because you don't you don't care you don't need water you know you don't have to Yeah, you're just like, I'm going to take over this world and become a zombie eventually. You know, something you said is you mentioned something, and I've had this affect me for a long time. It doesn't anymore. But there's so many people that first did drugs with me that have not stopped. And I remember people used to come to my house when I was still using, and we'd be about to hit some meth and be like, man i haven't done this since the last time i was here which was like a year before so like i knew like the influence that i had on people right and it wasn't a good influence at that time it is now like i can i like to think i'm a good influencer in a lot of good ways but back then i was an influence in fucking terrible ways and i've lost some people that i got started in things not that i don't i don't hold the the guilt that they're it's my fault that they're not here anymore right but what you were saying that's not your fault i know that you know that yeah i went through i went through a weird phase yeah it does yeah because yeah there's some people out there right now that i wish i could fucking help they're just not ready but i'm the one that got them started yeah you know exactly and being uh being at a position where you can help and like you were saying on the phone about being too helpful being too like yeah where is the where the boundaries oh i will enable the shit out of you yeah yeah i'm i'm i hate telling people no when i have it when i can help i know because saying no is very it's a very and then you come to a position where you have to say no that alone will give that will get me all stirred up yeah it's like some days are scary for me and probably for a lot of people between you you have to wake up and there's a you wake up kid yeah it's go time there's no i gotta get ready for the day like when i was in my own silver house it's like do whatever the hell i want to do now it's like my i go to bed at 8 30 every night and i wake up at because they wake up it's their schedule and i have to be on a schedule because if i go to bed at 10 i am tired the next day yeah they don't give a shit what you did the day before they don't care like they have no care in the world what you did the day before my little brother just brought up he's got two small ones three and one and uh he he was like dude i had to learn pretty quick you know yeah i got really hammered one night and woke up hung over and just had the kids like ready in the morning just like he's like i was like yeah bro they don't give a shit what you did the night before man like you didn't get enough rest fuck you get up yeah yeah it's like that scene in goodfellas where he's like fuck you pay me like that's what little kids are all the time they're just like fuck you we're doing it me and destiny go do karaoke that's one of our favorite things awesome but if i have kaylin the next day i'm not going to do karaoke yeah she knows we can do it on monday nights we can do it on sunday nights if we don't have we can do it on the weekend when we don't have kaylin but if i have to get my daughter the next day i can't stay out till fucking midnight yeah or one or two like even if i'm not drinking or anything i just fucking can't do it yeah it's the next day and then i gotta go to work the next day i'm gonna fucking feel like dog shit yeah but dude i was half on the same topic so i was worried because me and my wife we got ticket i got tickets to see judas priest now scooper at the cynthia wood center i was so excited but then it got closer to the day i was like i'm gonna be tired and the kids start talking yourself out of it but when i got there and then judas priest i was like yeah okay I'm still a young baby. I'm still ready to rock. And then the whole week after, I was like, yeah, okay, that's good. So that was reassuring. I bought some tickets on StubHub. Fucking so excited. And then when the day comes, I'm like, fuck, man, I don't even want to go. I don't want to go. I'm going to be out late and all that bullshit. Drive and park. I'm totally that guy. I'm that guy too, man. My daughter, I bought her tickets to Greta Van Fleet. I haven't talked about it on year before. but i bought her tickets for christmas last year for greta van fleet in like march or whatever yeah and she was like hey concerts like in three days and i'm like yeah i got you two tickets one for you and a friend not for your old man you know like this wasn't for us this was for you and whoever else you want to go right and she was like no i want you to go and i was like okay i'm like immediately it's like the negative shit it's like oh i gotta get parking i'm gonna have to be there i don't even know who this band is really i know they're a ripoff of fucking led zeppelin yeah but uh you but it was her like i realized again her going back to her being a little kid this is her band right she wanted me to go see her band like this is what i'm into yeah it was like okay so i put all of that aside we go down eat dinner i actually really enjoyed the show yeah i had a really good time at the show i was like this is a good fucking band yeah and we leave and i was like that was so worth it yeah you know that's a like every time it's you got to do those small sacrifices but it's weird how when you get older and when i was young and it was like dude slayers coming i'm like i will be up yeah i'll be camping first in line. I'm going. But now it's a lot different. There's a whole lot of other thoughts, but every time, at least with live music, I don't know what it's like for you guys. Every time all those bad thoughts come up for the before and after, it's always worth it. It's always worth it. It was always worth the juice was worth the squeeze to go do that. And it's really important to have little you know plans and challenges and things over the horizon like last week and i was so i haven't competed anything since i was 19 and last week i was super come from that gene yeah that viking gene where you're like and then we're driving because uh well you and your brothers were probably competing y'all's whole fucking life against each other playing football in the backyard like i listened to the gronkowskis could you imagine being in that fucking family oh yeah like that's what that that's all boys that's all that they do yeah my poor my my mother sang for that because four boys that's insane yeah that's insane four boys it's insane yeah because i have two two boys and two girls and it balances out yeah gorgeous bruisers yeah dude especially coming from the viking blood that you come from yeah i mean i definitely know that like when the vikings were coming on the ships back in the day you were the dude at the front of it with the fucking axe and I was like one of the townspeople going oh god just take my wife you boys you Hager boys that's really nice I always appreciate that but there was a guy rest in peace another one I don't know if you met him Alex Knock Alex Knockberg from Solstice super funny everybody loved him he's the best my commencement you were like a viking but you're like the biggest drama queen at the same time and i thought and i usually don't like it like getting jazzed but i thought it was the funniest and most accurate like description of me and i think about him often yeah he him and johnny winberg together was it's just a trip that was he was they were so funny i want to have johnny come on so bad he hasn't been on yet no because johnny's the one person that intimidates me when i talk to him yeah he's because he's so fucking smart yeah it makes me feel uncomfortable yeah and he like but he's also like one of the craziest he's one of the craziest but his humor it can either be really funny yeah or it can be dry to where you don't know are you fucking with me right now yeah and and he is but you don't know so yeah i haven't had him on yet i told him this the other week it's crazy so that i told i was like you are you were the most talented recovery technician insane i have hands down so like like funny like for men to like funny like the gags that you need but then when it's time to get serious he gets so serious and so wise i'm like this is like what are you he's like a wise man yeah he's if y'all could get him that'd be that'd be incredible yeah i love that guy yeah i did my step four with him and it was fucking like yeah i thought like you know when you do it i was like i didn't really do a whole lot wrong in my like it was everybody else oh did he dig yeah and then he fucking showed me like he's good where i'm a piece of shit and then like my my big thing was well i never cheated on my my ex-wife and he's like no you did with drugs you did all the fucking time oh yeah oh you didn't fuck somebody yeah you might as well just been fucking the drugs because that's who you were cheating on her with and bro like like had me like fucking balling like i'm a terrible person no he he's he's a he's a jedi he's great he's great yeah 100 jedi well uh i think we got one in the books here dude that's very good this was a really cool episode man like i told you earlier i always i we need to start getting more of the second time people in here yeah because to see how far they've came well especially it's it's that but it's also like i i enjoy the like when creechy came on the second time with john bryant it's less about the recovery story and it's more just like i'm chopping it up yeah what's up man like how are things going i miss you guys and this is so cool and thank y'all for having me again uh yeah last time i was on here i was working 80 hours a week on a construction site now i have a great office job a great career and i have room to be a dad i have room to do podcasts i have room to dream so really work hard so you can set yourself up to do what what you whatever you really want to do you know as long it's it's yeah man it's just a trip man and um being a father um and how seeing my father my parents like honor and integrity is everything so when someone invites me i'm there when i never would be like i show up on time i you know i try to be punctual yeah i actually put effort in everything i do and that that is the key to life you know what's funny is when i went to go get food today uh-huh and what the podcast was at 12 yeah and destiny was like i'm trying to leave and she's like you know like sometimes people show up early i said not really i said but if anybody showed up fucking early it's gonna be braving yeah and i fucking leave like i'm pulling out of my driveway and he texts me like hey i'm gonna be there 11 30 i'm like i'm not even there like i like i know like i'm gonna show up like five minutes early but i said if somebody shows up fucking early it's gonna be braving yeah there's no doubt about it he's like hey i'm like eight minutes away i'm like dude i literally just pulled out of my driveway to go get food But yeah. So before we cut you loose, you worked on an empty chair. I did. What did you do? I helped the stunt coordinator who was, I forgot his name, but Jeff Schwamm or something like that. He was Michael Bay's stunt coordinator. So I helped build the stunts and I also was a producer's assistant. It was a phenomenal time. Did you watch any of the scenes? Oh, yeah. I, uh, during the interrogation scene with Todd Allen, who's also small world, he's a family friend of ours and he just thought it was just crazy how that worked out. We were at the Austin psych ward by, uh, the out, the, there's a meeting kind of by campus. There's that mental hospital over there. Um, so we went there and it was one of the abandoned wings and super creepy vibes, like haunt, like supposed to be haunted or whatever. And they did the interrogation scene and I got to watch it on the monitors and it was so cool. Yeah, dude. That show really creeped me out. Yeah. And then finding out how real it was, I was Googling that guy. What show was it? Shabay's. Oh, okay. An Empty Chair, when he came on and talked about that. I got you. Andrew's great. He was such a cool director to work with. Not a lot of directors are like that. He's very open to collaboration. chin he's very uh you know not my way yeah come watch you know if you have any questions he comes up to i'm just a p and he comes up and talks at you know very very stand-up guy and i'm super excited i hope that project uh brother's keeper works out that that's very cool i tried to uh help him out with that still would like to however i can um but i think they're doing a good job already with it yeah so i think uh i can't wait till it comes out i'm a huge fan that's a topic for another discussion my big like i wrote a script love movies yeah well that was the other thing you sent me the script i read it it was really good thank you classic slasher flick exactly yeah dude i was like you're right up my alley with that i was like yeah dude that was that was awesome you wrote a script yourself are you trying to get it into a movie or what yeah i mean that's the goal yeah i mean i have a five-year plan on that have you tried to have you looked for funding and all that shit not yet so what i do i'm looking for script doctors now someone to really buff it somebody to fucking chat gbt bro i i did that but i was like i did it because i put my script into uh this ai calculator and gave you like what's good about it what's bad and i was like this is incredible but i don't want ai to take over movies yeah if i do that then but it's so true so handy that's how i'm gonna write a book i'm gonna type in my own shit yeah i'm gonna let grace figure it out for me yeah that's my chat having a ghost writer i think was yeah i named her yeah she calls me daddy no but yeah i love i love all that so keeping everything organized the family the hobbies because movies is hobbies i'm not going to make a lot of money but it's something i'm passionate something i love and i have something that i can that's uh sustainable you know yeah so i think that's more like when you leave like a legacy yeah right yeah like me writing a book i want to do that yeah but it's going to be here forever kind of like when I'm gone. Yeah, like when I'm gone, my daughter will still have my book. Yeah. You know? Did you know that Lucy Kaye just wrote a book? No, I didn't. It's like a Huckleberry Finn type book. Yeah, dude. It's really good. No shit? Yeah, I was listening to him talk about it in an interview, and it seems really cool. It's about a little kid that just horrible conditions and just – it's like a modern-day Huckleberry Finn. So, yeah, it's his legacy. He's like, no, I've always – since I was a little kid, I wanted to be an author. but I was really funny so he did TV writing all that and that's exactly it it's a legacy my movie is about envy and what you asked and that I still I wrote it six years ago the idea of it so you still had a lot of envy in there thank you for reading it by the way it was really cool thanks for sending it to me I didn't get it you don't have Pennywise Michael Myers tattooed on you. I think you saw that and was like, I should probably run this by this guy. You'd probably be into this. I'm more of a notebook guy. Yeah. Flamer. Yeah. Yeah, you're more of a notebook guy. And I'm a notebook guy too. It's a great movie. Oh, great movie. That's a movie I can only watch one time. Yeah, Taylor told me, because I never watched it, and she's like, you need to watch this. And I watched it, and I was like, yeah. What about Dear John? She gets you to watch Dear John. that's one of my favorites yeah i saw dear john as well shortly after the whole nicholas spark yes i love you yeah all that's a really that's one of the best chick flicks ever made man yeah i agree i would agree that's oh with g.r butler and oh yeah g.r butler and uh hillary swank and all the little stuff he does yeah like yeah lined up a bunch of stuff is that the one where he's dying he died yeah he took videos of no no no this is that's something different i told you about that one so i'll so okay so uh p.s i love you is uh ladies married to a guy he dies but he wrote a series of letters like almost like a scavenger hunt yeah of what she wanted what he wanted her to do after he passed okay as like kind of repair to help her move on and all that shit yeah and by the end of it she actually does and it was like a really it's a really good movie she starts fucking someone else with him yes terrible yes but terrible but i'm so selfish i want you to sit in your fucking grief forever yeah but he never move on unless you switch to lesbianism that's fine yeah no more you can never find another guy and then the irish men in that movie they're so good yeah So cool. The one that I was telling you about was My Life. It's heart-wrenching. It's Michael Keaton and Nicole Kidman. I want to say it's either late 80s, early 90s, sometime around there. Michael Keaton is dying while his wife is pregnant. She has the baby and it's him doing videotapes of like oh wow how to ride your bike how to shave how giving giving the talk to yeah you know so he basically makes this archive he's not gonna be there because he's not gonna be there for this kid's life what's this movie called it's called i think it's my life okay that's what it's called i'm a huge michael keaton so if you talk about michael keaton michael kidman movie right it'll it's gonna be right at the top but it was in movie theaters i remember watching it but dude watch it. I remember seeing it as a kid and you're like, I have no reference. It's alright. And then I remember watching it as an adult after I had kids and I was like, oh my god, dude. You're just like crying the whole way through it. He's creating this stack and it's old so it's like VHS. He's setting up a VHS camera and the tapes and stacks of tapes my life 1993 yeah so there you go oh it dude it's it's heavy yeah it's a really good movie really well acted and that sounds like just a little scene in interstellar when mike when mcconnell is looking at his kids but like a little full-length movie yeah in reverse yeah but it's the whole time and it's like his struggles with the health and marriage and then I want to make sure that I'm the one who teaches them everything, but I'm not going to be here to do it, so I'm going to do it this way. Yeah. I'm going to check that out. Same. I love Michael Keaton. I think he's the best Batman. That's just my opinion. I agree with you. He's the only one that I remember. Dude, there was Clooney. There was Val Kilmer. I never watched him. I'll just say why, because he's the best Bruce Wayne. He's so tired and so indifferent and just like, huh? Because you can tell he's worn out. He wants to be Batman. and Bruce Wayne is the mask. Well, my favorite thing about Batman is like old Batman. Yeah. Like the older years. Detective. He was definitely that guy. Yeah. He definitely was. But Christian Bale, I mean, those were the best movies. Oh, yeah. I agree. You got to see him go young to old in the three iterations of The Dark Knight. Yeah. And then when Michael Keaton's trying to go to the Penguin's lair and he sees those penguins flying next to him. He's like, what am I doing? That's like my favorite scene in those movies. It's just a little look that he does. He's like, this is crazy. All right. Yeah. So, well, I tried to end this like 30 minutes ago, and we started talking about movies. Send a follow-up. What I ended up doing. I like it. Yeah, you like it. Also, I'm going to give you a compliment before we leave. The amount of confidence it takes to wear yellow or white pants. Yeah. dude white shoes i mean i'd imagine are you wearing air force ones too yeah i shit my pants probably once a quarter same air force ones baby yeah i like i would not want to fart in those because i shit at our age you can't trust them yeah i can't trust white pants no i made sure that i was clean and everything before metamucil all of that yeah dude um well anyway braven thanks man this was awesome thank you so much guys we fucking love having you on and we want to do it many more times please i love it i love seeing y'all just grow and see how y'all are next year is gonna be super exciting so we need it we knew we were talking to evan the other day remember evan stegman oh yeah megan came on and he jumped on for like four minutes oh dude nervous and he he would not do a podcast because his story you know his story yeah i live and so we're living with him crazy yeah but he said he would do one if we had like a solstice reunion so if we had like cole come on maybe johnny yeah like maybe four or five of us that came on like some people from when i went in you cole that would be pretty dope we get we can do it we have six microphones let's do that so that would be dope as fuck i would be i'd be here for that i guess that he would come for that one yeah having some of the worst boys on here and like that i think that'd be cool those they're always worse than the worst. Worst of the worst. Well, until next time, man, I hope you move here soon so we can hang out outside of a podcast. Absolutely. That'd be awesome. And, um, you know, look, man, Merry Christmas. Yeah. Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy New Year. The whole nine. I think this one will be out after it, right? I don't know. Joe? No, it comes out Tuesday. Okay. Yeah. Two days. Well, Merry Christmas, everybody. Happy New Year. More of the Christmas style. This is actually one of my Christmas presents. Nice. Nice. Well, let's call it a day, boys. Love you both. Love y'all. We'll see you soon. Peace.