Food, Media, and the Modern Chef, Alexandria Ebron, Chef Jason F. Lynn

Oxford Montessori School is now Oxford Millwood School. A new name, the same genuine care, academic ambition and belief in every child. Set within a beautiful rural campus, just 20 minutes from Oxford City Centre. Our small classes, personalised pathways and strong send expertise give pupils the support, challenge and confidence they need to succeed, especially those who may not have thrived in larger settings. Find out more at our Open Day on May the 21st. Search Oxford Millwood School Open Day. Last week, we were in Manhattan, three days at the New York restaurant show, moving, shooting, talking to chefs, brands, operators, people from every corner of this industry. You feel it when they're there, the pace, the ideas, the energy. It reminds you how big this business really is. I want to take a second to thank the team that was on the ground. Chef Guterra Vera, Chef Michael Calantes, Jordan Will and of course the Restaurant Events team who put the whole thing together. We missed having John there and that one was felt. And being in that environment reinforces something we've been talking about a lot lately. Food doesn't just live on the plate anymore. It lives in media, on camera, on social, in podcasts, in the way stories are told and shared. That's where we're living again today. Our featured guest is Alexandria Atbrun, Brain Manager for the Zest and Classical WSMR, part of the NPR ecosystem at WSF and the University of South Florida. Alexandria built her voice through writing, content and real world experience. And now she helps shape how food stories are seen across the state. Cooking in studio is Chef Jason F. Lin, a returning guest of Walk and Talk. He's a friend. Jason is currently at Dell Web Miniola building within a system while still pushing his identity as a chef and navigating the reality that today food and media are tied together whether you like it or not. So today's conversation sits right where we've been the last few weeks. Food and media, craft and content, what gets made and what gets seen. Let's get into it. Chef, welcome back. I'm glad to be here. How was fun? It was fun today, wasn't it? Had a good time? Yeah, it's always fun. Is it though? Yeah. Okay. All right. Hey, listen, man, I don't want any trouble with you. No, I try to come more often, but you always tell me to go away. I gotta keep you on the short leash, man. You know what I mean? I know. Yeah, I got you. So listen, you did some cool stuff today. I want to start with the chicken. Talk about this chicken. I've never seen that before. And for a minute, I thought we had that on the program prior. But upon research, no. Yes, silky chicken. It's a beautiful chicken. It's white and fluffy, kind of like a Pomeranian. I hate to compare it to that. But the beak is black, the feeder black, the meat, everything is dark about it. And it's like stronger, obviously, than like even like the thigh meat of like a traditional chicken we would eat here in the States. So well, the meat was an off color. So it's not it doesn't it look like dark meat? Yeah, it's almost like it's almost like the meat is kind of white, but then the skin is black, but then it kind of has like a frog leg hue to it, which is kind of weird to say. So it definitely tastes like chicken. But it's not dialed in as chicken. Yeah. And in fact, I don't I don't have a good description for that. But it was really delicious. Yeah. So that's my description. It was delicious. Yeah, it is kind of hard to describe. But like you said, the meat is really tender to even those to me, it's really soft and tender. And that was a small chicken. So it didn't, you know, get all tough and old. What were the accruciments? For that, you know, we did the sweet potato puree, just because I'm obviously balancing out some of the chicken can be kind of, that's where I'm looking for. Not bitter, but it can have some kind of bite to it. And then the black currant reduction, thinking of like the world of duck, you know, you do raspberries a lot. So I'm kind of sticking with that darkness and the black currant and that reduction. Wasabi cream, had some heat, the scallion nests, a little bit like fresh bite, and the cauliflower and the bok choy were kind of the clean vegetable that were just charred. The claw. The claw. I forget the name of the restaurant. So there's a chef that fried the thigh and leg and left the claw on. And I think it's almost like Michelin level. It's like a high end restaurant. And so the claw would be hanging out the side of the sandwich. And you can Google this, I forget the name of the chef. And so anyway, listen, the photography on this particular bird with the claw. We were all a little skeptical at first, but you know what, it came out really cool. Yeah, right. Yeah, I just wanted a little kind of creeper vibe. I know that sounds strange. Food shouldn't be creepy. Even you've said they kind of has like a Halloween-ish thing going on. I would that would have been the dish for Halloween. Yeah, just in its natural form. And now getting, you know, a cartoony or whatever. But it was a really cool, interesting dish and it's something new. So I'm glad you brought it. And dish number two was the pork shanks, which you saw in the video that I seared off in the pan. And then that had the honey roasted Brussels sprouts, because obviously Brussels sprouts like some sweetness for balance. Fingerling potato and pepper hash for a quick pickup, because we're going to be selling that at View 232, the restaurant I'm currently overseeing. And then the port wine demi and dehydrated crispy shallot brings in that crunch. Yeah, well done. These are delicious dishes. And I think the photography came out good. Hopefully, my videography is going to hold the weight next to Mr. Hernandez. Hey, man, we missed you in New York, buddy. I mean, we did have a blast. I'm going to say it physically beat the hell out of me. But I'm going to tell you it was a blast. It was just five days of New York pizza. This is what it was. Yeah, I did gain a lot of weight. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's true. So the New York restaurant show was pretty, pretty dope. I have to tell you, the whole thing was really great, busy packed. Obviously, we're going to be in California and then Florida. You have to make it to the Florida show. It sounds like a plan. Yeah, especially it's in Orlando, right? I got no excuses. There aren't any excuses. It's right there. Yeah, and you have to be participate in our cinematic antics, if you will. Yeah, sounds good. I can hand out hors d'oeuvres, you know, whatever, on what station? Yeah, we'll put you in it. We'll take the chef code off. We'll put you in a tuxedo. You'll be good to go. Penguin suit and you're our rice. Yeah, no, keep the converse though. Where are the converse? Yeah, okay. All the good. Oh, and if you can get some tattoos before that. Yeah. And again, some gauges. Yeah, yeah, here we go. Yeah, some tweezers. And I'll be good to go. Or bigger tweezers. Bigger tweezers. Yeah, I'll hop my apron. That's so bad. All right, we're all seeing the vision. Yeah. Okay, excellent. All right, enough with you. You did good today, man. It's been a while. I know. You know what? It was a long time coming. And the week was right. Yeah, we worked out timing. Because with the restaurant I'm at, we're building designing that's not open yet. So I'm not stuck on a line where I can come hang out with you. Correct. I mean, I know that's what you'd want to do. And I don't mind you. That's a lot of fun. Yeah, this is great. This is what we do. Oh, could I say one thing? No. And regarding the soy silky chicken dish, I did it kind of in honor of a triad association management who I work directly for, as it has the purple in their logo, the yellow in their logo and the black. So that's why I went with those colors. I still brought in some green to help it pop. But that was my goal. All right, so you brought you actually brought company branding into the plate. Exactly. All right, brilliant. Without further ado. Oh, yeah. Alexandria, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. No, thank you for having me on your show. Right. Because that's really a title. This one down. Yeah. So now here you are. It's full circle. We had Delia a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a terrific, terrific episode. I got to check the numbers, but I think that one hit pretty hard. Oh, awesome. Yeah, I'll check before we split. Okay. Yeah. So welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Did you have fun today too? I did. And the food was actually really good. It was. We were all on shore. I mean, I'm going to tell you, we were all on shore. We saw what was going on and we're like, oh, God, did John and me? Yeah, like what you didn't see, Jason, is the three of us were all looking at each other like, what the hell is this? They had the bike chicken. Yeah, there was the chicken. I was like, saw these purees, purees everywhere. All right, Alex, you know, we just got back from New York a few days ago. It was nonstop. It was literally standing room only for the same. Yeah, it was crazy. When you look at a show like that, and you know, coming from a social media perspective, what stands out to you? Is it is it the food? Is it the people? Is it the stories and the brands, the manufacturers? What do you think? I think for one, it's the people because if I'm looking at your videos and it's like, oh my God, that is a lot of people and kind of thinking about like work conferences that I've had to go to and you're just walking around, there's like a bajillion people and they're all there for the same reason. So that part, I was like, wow, that's a lot of people. Obviously the food, I've only been in New York once and that was 2023, I think it was. And the food in New York is really good. My husband went last year, I think it was to visit a friend and he did like an unofficial pizza tour. He went to, you got to go to the industry. He got me a shirt from the industry, so I wear it all the time. Yeah, he went to Skars and he really enjoyed it. But another place that I usually recommend to people, they do go to New York, it's called Cuts and Slices. It's a black owned pizza brand, pizza business. And they have different locations, like we went to the one in Brooklyn and it's like a small space, probably like the size of this room, probably the size of this room, but their pizza was so good. And the slices are huge. Like we got three slices, it was like, I remember one was Oxtail and we went to a park that was like across the street from it and we shared the slices and it's like, y'all can really just eat pizza or whatever you want. You don't have to like order it, you know, most of the pizza places I swear have been there since like the early 1900s, probably, but like just the food in New York and all the food videos that I've seen, I'm just like, I have to get back to New York. I have to. The whole trip for us, we were there for five days. And it was nothing but random pizza stops, one of them was Skars. And that was legit. That was probably the best pizza I've had in a very, very ever, except for L&B pizza, Spongebob and the Gardens in Brooklyn in Bensonhurst, which I think they just got bought out. That was like a 85 year old company. Yeah. And I think recently, maybe a year ago, you know, it's under new ownership now. Okay. But other than that place, yeah, Skars was phenomenal. Yeah, man. So good. Have to make them take me there next time. It's worth it. It's worth it. And you know what's funny about, yeah, like, like New York's funny, please. It's hard. It's almost hard to find a sit down restaurant. They're there, obviously. Yeah. But when you're walking and you're doing your thing, it's literally you're walking into like a, you know, 10 by 15 size space. Yeah. And they're just pumping food out, you take it and you go, you know, you go home with it. I gotta tell you, we walked, I looked at my Apple Watch and steps. And there was like 30,000 steps in what day? Yeah. We walked 35 miles in a day. One of the days that we were there, we walked nine miles. Yeah. At least I walked nine miles. I think he walked more because he, what he does is, I think that morning he got up and went to, I think it was probably this day, he got up and went to Dominique Anso for little, you know, pastries and baked goods. So his, his steps were probably way more than mine. But I looked at mine that day and I was like, I really walked nine miles like that. That's crazy. And it happens fast. I have to, so pooch, we land. Over to the Airbnb, we link up and he's like, let's just go walk. We got like three hours to spare. I'm like, okay, sure. No problem. I don't know. I think we walked for eight hours is what it really would have felt like. And, and I was destroyed for the rest of the trip. Now, for all the walking I did, you would think, well, you know, buddy lost a couple of pounds or something. No, no, no, no, no, man, that didn't happen. I didn't have an opposite effect. Damn you, New York pizza. Yeah, we can blame the pizza. You didn't actually come up through a traditional media pipeline. No, you found yourself, you know, with the blogging and creative loafing, you were there for a little while, and then you landed at the zest. When did food stop being something you covered and started becoming something of your own lane? That's a good question. I don't mess around over here. No, honestly, I would say I was saying since I still do cover it, because sometimes the content that I make for myself, I'll use it for the zest. So for example, a couple of weeks ago, I was in Jacksonville for they have a race called the Gate River Run. And so my family and I, when I was a kid, we used to do it every year. Like, there's pictures of me and my cousins with their little numbers on running their little, uh, the mile that they have for the kids. And so this is the first time that we've done it all together in a very, very long time. So obviously, we went to Jacksonville, we ate our way through Jacksonville. So like, I have the video edited. I just have, you know, put the finishing touches on it, but something like that I'll use for myself and for the zest. If it's on Instagram, and I'm sure everybody knows this feature, you can just add who everyone as a collaborator, you know, it'll show up on everybody's feeds. So obviously, my feed and the zest feed. So I do that all the time. And I think last week I was at the sugar factory. So I'm still covering food socially, not necessarily like writing about it like I used to, but it's still there. How did I carve my own lane? Oh, my God, I guess doing it, doing it in the way that I was doing it in the way that suited me the best. It wasn't something it was something that just kind of like landed in my lap, basically. So I'm from Orlando. I'm living in Tampa. This was maybe like 2013. So at this time, me and my husband, who's my boyfriend at the time, I was like, you know, let's just start exploring different restaurants in the area, because the way our work schedules were set up, the only days that we really had together was Wednesday. So every Wednesday, we would go try a new place. And it's always funny when Facebook memories show you the different things. I will say my food photos during this time were horrible. They were not great at all. But it's, it's always a reminder of like where I started. So I was like, well, I want to try different places. So that way when my family comes from Orlando, I can take them somewhere that isn't a chain restaurant. Like I want to take them somewhere that they probably haven't eaten in Orlando or don't have an Orlando. So then that kind of trialed off to me having a little what I call a quarter life crisis at 25, and then going to grad school. Because I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to go back to school for my masters. And this is what I'm going to study. So I got my master's and digital journalism, and I have a certificate in food writing and photography, because I'm like, okay, we're doing this food stuff. I want to look more legit. Like I wanted, I want to learn the thing. So doing that started interning at Creative Low-Faying in 2016. Right? No, that's a lie. 2017. I'm sorry. May 2017, I started interning. And then my editor at the time, she was like, Hey, do you want to stay on and just like freelance for us? I was like, Yeah, sure. Like, okay, I'm glad you guys enjoyed me enough to keep me on. So I did that from 2017 until like 2023. And sometimes I have to sit back and just look at everything that I've written. And I'm like, I did this, like the food scene in Tampa, like, it's the way it is, like low key because of me, because I'm writing about these restaurants and chefs, and all this stuff and like, building relationships for myself, because a lot of the restaurant owners, like I'm so cool with, you know, I'm always in their DMs and, you know, on their socials. But building up a catalog, yeah, is pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Like when I look back and I see what we've done here, you know, John was the photography and the podcast and, you know, now, you know, video and whatnot. It's pretty amazing. It is, you know, and the truth is, and it's not, I don't know if it's low key or not. But at the end of the day, you know, people like you, people like us, we're shaping narrative. Obviously, it's the restaurant tour, it's the chef, it's that because, you know, they're the ones putting the money in, and building these restaurants and doing all of that part, right? But in terms of like, how you're found, yeah, it comes in this form, it comes in the form of, you know, podcasting and social media, and people taking, you know, photos and putting too much contrast and everything, you know, in it. So, you know, in the end, with me, that's me, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. That was me. I learned lessons. Yeah. You know, I was, you know, John beat me up pretty well. Every time I would post them. What are you doing? Well, which are photos like crazy? Well, his photos are crazy. Me, you know, I don't, anyway, so you work in food with media, you work in music with media, which one do you like better? And what is it that pulled you into those two, those two categories? So, like I said, with, with, I do enjoy, I enjoy them both, but the zest is like my baby, like I, you know, I get real possessive over it, like, oh, you can't do this. It's mine. But I do enjoy classical music, and it's funny because like, as I've been working in classical music, it's very interesting because a lot of the songs that I hear, I recognize them from commercials. Or I think one time I was listening to a song, I was like, I think that was in the movie Fantasia, which I might date myself, but I think I still have the VHS of Fantasia from when I was a kid in my house somewhere. But yeah, like you recognize these songs and it's like, oh my god, they're everywhere. They're not just like, you know, being played in somebody's house, like, they are actually being used as far as food. Walk and Talk Media is proudly supported by Rack Porcelain USA, creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more at rackporcelain.com. So what got me into food was, like I was saying before, I just kind of want to explore Tampa and find out what restaurants were in the area. And, you know, no, no hate to change. I love change, but, you know, eating somewhere that's local is, to me, is really cool because you kind of get to know the city a little bit, kind of get to know the people a little bit. And actually, I did my grad school project on restaurants in some of the heights. So this is 2018. And I went to, I don't know, I went to several restaurants doing this video by myself. So food is fun. Food is community. You know, you sit at the table with your family, with your friends, you know, you might go out for a little cocktail or whatever, with your friends. But I always try to find the fun in it. And also, I will say it has enhanced my palate a little bit. Last year, I was telling my husband, it's like, I want to try more Asian foods. Like, it might have started as like a random craving for like, I don't know, orange chicken or something, but it's like, I want to try more Asian foods. And the funny thing is, once I said that to him, I started getting, I started getting the invitations to like Asian restaurants and stuff like that. I was like, oh, look at me manifesting. But and we were just at, if you're in Tampa, you know, the Lucky Tigray is very good. They do Filipino food. We were just there yesterday. And I was talking to the owner, Julie, and I was like, Hey, you know, this is why I am. She she remembered me because we talked a few months ago. And so, you know, we're both excited about talking about food. And so she's telling me restaurants, I'm looking at maps, the map app, seeing where they are. And, you know, I was only there to get breakfast. But I was like, let me let me tell her who I am, because we've talked before. And she probably doesn't remember me. But just from that, now it's like, yeah, this is where she goes, you know, so stuff like that. It always keeps working in food, you know, fun and fresh. Lucky tigger. I went there maybe a month ago. So good. It is Lee Wilson from creative loafing. We met there with Ray. Okay. And from creative loafing. Yeah. And, you know, that's kind of where we started talking about what some things we might do together, right? The food was freaking awesome. Yeah. And it's a tiny little joint. It's a small little place. It's kind of like a it's actually New York esque. Yeah, those restaurants are yeah, they really, it really was. But the food is right on it looks like a real chefy chefy kind of place to independent chefy chef. You're not the ACF chef, he said we I'm looking at you, chef Jason. But at the end of the day, real great place and I recommend it if you're if you hear me if you're hearing my voice and you're in Tampa, yeah, go there. Yeah. And even Chef Julie, she was so with the Buccaneers, they have this chef series where every season they kind of have a team of chefs and their their food will be featured during the home games. And so Chef Julie was one of them. So that's kind of a testament to a Tampa and be what kind of food soon we have where it's like, here we are, you know, showcasing this Filipino food alongside, you know, Chef Renee from, oh my God, what Renee Renee's from Renee's, you know, cruise sellers and different, different places. So the food scene, I will say the food sitting in Tampa is super diverse, which I really enjoy. It's come a long way. I moved up here in 2016. Okay. And it is completely different. The landscape, the food culinary scene is absolutely different than it was, you know, 10 years ago. Yeah, I mean, when I was in college, the only restaurants I knew were the ones that were on Fowler by campus. And, you know, it was a lot of fast food or like, I was I was saying, sometimes I remember like the Panda Express us on Fowler, I remember going there and college and that orange chicken. Yeah, yeah, for the orange chicken. And it's still it's still there is still kicking the Chipotle that's on Fowler used to go there all the time. And it's I don't know, it's just it's just funny to see some of the same restaurants that I frequent in as as a little college student. But also, there is a little food scene happening on Fowler on Fletcher, especially over in Templaterra. So especially for college student with a car, you can explore just a little bit more than what's near the campus. Well, all of that to circle back to what we've been leaning into lately, which is how food and media are living together. And it looks together, like intimately, it's pretty, it's very close. Why does food and cameras work so well together, in your opinion? How does food and cameras, I think. Well, okay, maybe sometimes we want to know what they're eating, you know, you see a dish's name you're like, what does that look like? And you get to see it. But also, I think there is probably a heightened increase in food. And also, there's so many like food creators, who content creators from the people who cook to people like me, who just, you know, go to the restaurants and all that stuff. But obviously, people love food. And there's so many different cuisines and so many ways to make a dish. You know, it's always cool to see, you know, maybe Chef Jason's take on pork shanks versus this other person, they might barbecue theirs, you might, I don't know if you can do that, you might fry yours. But it's always cool to see how, how different dishes can be interpreted or innovated. From your viewpoint, what actually makes a food story hit? Not theory, but what actually works? That's a good question. I'm not sure what work, do you mean like what would make something go viral? You have all of these different types of food content, right? You have serious stuff. You know, you have like industry in the kitchen, how to, you have parody, you know, food comedy. And there's just, I don't know, there's probably two dozen different types of food content creators. Yeah. But the truth is, no matter who's producing that, whether it's, you know, comedic or serious cinematic, the story has to hit. What stories are you going after? Okay, so for this, because that's primarily who I look for people for the show. I feel like a maybe like the human interest part of it, definitely if you have a cool story. So what's a cool story for you? What's the cool story for me? Well, a lot of the people, I won't say a lot of people, but there's some people on there who I would want on the show. And I've engaged with their content, like there's, there's one woman, she's a baker. I've eaten her food plenty of times. And I was like, Oh my God, we have to get you on the show. She makes like vegan gluten free baked goods, like cookies and donuts and stuff like that. I'm, I'm neither one of those. But I will gladly spend $60 on your, on your cookies and whatnot, because they're, they're that good. And what I think is, you know, we've, we've talked about on the show before where like the vegan food landscape is different. I feel like I'm rambling right now, but I got it. Who is it? Oh, I'm sorry. I want to know who it is. Her name, what do you mean? What nobody with the audience does not see is that as she's talking and building up the anticipation, you're just like, I'm staring like in, I'm through her, like in her eyes through her, and I'm waiting and I'm kind of like with my hand egging her on like the hell is it? Her name is Gabby Bakes and she has a little storefront and some of the heights and she'll do, it's not a storefront where you can just go up and buy stuff. She'll have different drops. I think she's taking a step back for, for a little bit just to kind of like breathe a little bit. But she'll do drops in her, her stuff will sell out immediately. Like if you don't buy the stuff right when you get the text, you're, you're screwed. But people like her, because I'm like, okay, well, you know, I feel like there's still the sentiment that, you know, vegan food isn't that great. What is like, no, like, I will, I will eat all of your cookies and your desserts. Another person is another person I've been interested in having the show. He's a local rapper. His name is Tom G. I was listening to his stuff probably when I was in high school in Orlando thinking I'm cool because it's like, oh, I listen to Tampa music. They don't have that here. But he owns a little food truck is called Snack Trap. So it's like, okay, cool. Here's the story. We have this local rapper turned like, you know, entrepreneur restaurant tour, if you want to say that. So, you know, stuff like that. That's cool. Yeah. Or we've had like, Is he telling it? He's doing a good job or what? No, yeah, he is, he is. I mean, his, his truck is not far from my house. So I see it a lot. So stuff like that or Do you know, John, if back in the late 80s and early 90s, if we were in open a food truck, it would have been loaded with like 2000 Watts worth of amps, 15s, 12s, you know, horns, the whole thing, man. Push, you know, maybe the Kenwood or Pine. I'm just saying, that's the kind of life we led. Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah. I got two subwoofers in my car right now. You guys started to get two 12s and my feeling on core. I thought I heard you pulling up. Oh yeah, that was me. Thought I heard you. I'm a dirty South County guy. Sorry. Oh yeah. I had you for that. Really did. No East Coast, West Coast. That's still a thing. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. No, everybody other mumbling. What is it called? I don't know. It's my kids mumble a lot. Creating chef driven crab dips made with real seafood and bold flavor. Learn more at crab island seafood dip.com. Jason, you've been on the show before and you know, we've been talking a lot the last two weeks leading up to today. And you mentioned something about you realized that you had a flip a switch and you had to learn how to shoot your food. You had to learn how to because you already know how to cook your food. You know how to plate your food. And I know that you're the guy that says you're always forever the student. So you're forever learning and I respect that. But then you said, you know what, I'm not a kid and I have to keep up with the times. What did you do? I had to keep up with the times. I mean, so I'm at that funny age, you know, born at 79. I'm 47 now and I saw all of that social media kind of creeping on me. And I was like, I don't get it or why am I going to do it? But like I said earlier in my intro, like I literally had a go daddy website with like 20 cheesy photos on it. I'm talking like bad looking bad lighting. Everything was bad. And then when you start seeing the entrepreneurialism behind it, right? We, you know, as a young aspiring chef or you're a young cook, you have to sell yourself, right? You got to sell the food, you got to sell yourself. And the Instagrams and the Twitter's and all the stuff I'm still learning about is a way to sell yourself. So I had to do it. It wasn't like, am I going to do it? Right? I had to do it. And then now I have like 1200 photos on Instagram, right? I got a whole 500 followers. I'm blowing up, right? Instagram famous. Yeah. But I got a lot of beautiful photos. Like I look at some people's Instagram accounts and they're like kind of a joke. Yeah. And I'm like, this guy's got like 10 million followers and like look at all of my work. I know. I spent hours, years curating your future, curating my artistry. Well, just so you know. And I, and obviously I'm, I'm one of your 500 followers. Okay. So I know the work you do. You were like three, I think. Probably. I mean, here's, here's the deal. You put out a really great phone. It looks great. And it also tastes like, like, you know what you're doing? I try you with the effort you're putting into all of your plating, your photography, the things that you're doing, you have to learn like the mechanics of the engine of the internet of the social media of things. And that's I think where you're, I think that's maybe where you might be. Yeah. I'm floundering. Maybe. And I don't want to say floundering. I think that's real strong. At the end of the day, there's a, there's a, there's a flow, right? And you have to tap into that flow. 100%. And there's ways to do that. Right? Yeah. But in terms of you being in this industry for as long as you have, and it kind of, I don't want to say coming full circle, but you're, you know, you, you're bringing the now into your life. Yeah. Into your culinary life. Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. And I respect that because honestly, this guy's got more, he's got more, like curated, put together, photo shoots. Yeah. Then the most people I've seen out there. I mean, what we did today, it's exhausting. It's hard work. Like coming in here and having to get together, setting out like what you guys do is like extremism of what I do in my home. But I do it in my own kind of little weird way, right? I have my lighting set up. I have my stuff, the things that I do. And I'm now spending an entire day, I'll spend you a 50, sometimes do like $100 a public's, right? Come home, make one plate of food. I don't want to eat after playing with it. Yeah. And it's a, it's a trip. So when somebody says food extremism, yeah, yeah, that's us. Yeah, John, I'm like, well, I'm going to call myself out because sometimes, and what I do struggle with when I'm just going to be straight here with the Instagram is I think it's easy for me to get removed from does it taste good? I came in here joking with you about that. Like, Hey, this is photography food. And you were calling me out saying, Oh, it better taste good. And I respect you for that. And I don't want to go down like the AI rabbit hole too much. But that's, I've had people say like, Hey, your food is this AI? Yeah, I just like in the past six months, because AI is becoming a point of topic. I'm like, it's almost like a compliment. Like, wow, does it look like it's, you know, cheated and fake and AI. But, but you, you held me to that. And that's what you're doing this show that the food's got to look good. Of course, the plating is gonna be beautiful, but the food's got to taste good. And so yeah, I mean, you never know who's going to be in studio. I mean, Alex is not a joke. I mean, it's, it's, it's the truth. This and possessed NPR, the whole thing. And you know, it's a big, it's a big part of the circle of life of culinary arts, right? You got the chef, she got the podcast, she's got the people that are writing about it. You said the whole point of the show today is talking about that the circle of kind of we all scratch each other's backs. Dell Web Miniola. You're building insider system. You're not just doing your own thing. So you have to balance. You have to balance creativity. And also you got to make money for these people. Oh, of course. Right. How do you build that structure? So just to give a little background, a 55 plus community where we have this beautiful, it's called the Vista Club. It's a beautiful amenity clubhouse that has the restaurant aspect called the restaurant aspect called view 232. So, you know, very upscale, casual, but yet upscale. And it's, you know, 55 plus communities, not what it was 20 years ago, we're not talking like golden girls, right? Remember golden girls, you know, everybody was already like kind of older looking. Now we're talking about very youthful 55 year old people. And it's my job to take care of them food wise. And I get the, and I'm in though I call the romantic period, you know, where like I already have all the Metro shelving in there, which I love. There was so much Metro shelving I thought of you immediately. And I'm like, look at all this stuff. It's every it's in every walk in it's in dry storage. It's in like the hallways behind the bars, Metro Metro Metro. I was like, geez, man, I love I love my sound event. Well, you know, you think I don't know what the systems call where you just pop the racks up, you run them to the dish machine instead of letting them, the old metal ones just resting the walk in and falling the food, you know, the rust particles. But it's that romantic period I call it opening, buying the small where getting everything together, playing in the menu and keeping the residents happening in the neighborhood. John, I can't believe that we're part of that youthful dip those close to that youthful 55, I can get you in with one of the sales reps, you know, get me to get you a discount. You know, I'm looking for senior discounts now. I mean, that's really I do. Oh my God, it's horrible to say these things. It really is terrible. Oh my goodness. Back when I was your boy back in 1993. So on top of all of these things that you're doing at the new gig, you have to still think about how this food looks. Because like you just said, this isn't your father's old mobile. This is this is something else. You still have to have the sexy food. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're interested. Here's the good part. Because truthfully, we're talking about Gen Xers, right? Now that that's the age group that's moving into this this 55 age, we're not getting it, whatever. I got we're cool. We're just cool. We're easygoing. We want things really smooth and just to be quiet about it. But the truth is we want to look pretty, you know, we we we've taken our lashes man. And you know what, like, we just want what's nice. Now, so it's guys and gals like you that are going out there hustling up the good dishes, making it cost effective and yes, pretty. What'd you say cost effective? It has to be cost effective. Has to be. Yeah. So I think a lot of chefs struggle with that, you know, and that's like a natural other topic. But that's what I'm doing. I'm costing everything. How's the food going to look, even learning the clientele or I should say the residents that's are coming into the clubhouse I'm working in. And this romantic period I call upsetting up some. I have to think that there's chefs out there today. And I don't know what bracket age bracket wise, I'm just saying, I know there's chefs out there today that are wrestling with how their food looks, you know, on social media, as much or more than what it tastes like. Yeah, agreed? No, I know. I mean, 100%. And that's kind of I went there a little bit about that where like, like an amazing bowl of chili, right? Think about the chili is was made, maybe let it sit overnight in the fridge and next day heated up and it's even better. Like those flavor profiles really come alive. In a la minute cooking, sometimes we can get so kind of I'm by myself, I got to hear this is what are the colors? What are the accoutrements? How much stuff am I going to pack on the plate? Right? That's where I still come from trying to pack too much on the plate. And doesn't even marry sometimes we get a little too crazy sometimes. Alex, the way it looks is super important. The way it tastes also, obviously super important. You heard the question with chef Jason. Where does it land? For me, I think it's how it tastes. It has to be right? It has to be because it, you know, it can look good in that taste good. But I think ultimately people care more about what it tastes like. Because like, yeah, again, you can see the picture of you can see with your eyes and be kind of like, maybe not. But when that's my point, if you're if you're scrolling socials or you're on one of the food apps or whatever. This session of walking talk media is made possible by Citrus America, delivering fresh Florida citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals nationwide. Learn more at Citrus America.com. You can have the most flavorful, best delicious, but if it looks like slopping a plate, they're going to scroll on by and not make it in the door. Right? I mean, so yes, I agree with both of you. I think flavor is where it's at. Yeah. But you know what? Equally as important is how it looks because I think if you're scrolling and you hit some, you know, utterly duckling dish, you're just you're never going to go. You're not going to go there. Right. But if I see it and I'm like, hmm, that looks good. Like my interest is peaked a little bit more. So then I really want to see, okay, it looks good. How does it taste good? And does it look like what you're seeing? Yeah, it doesn't look like what I'm seeing. Because it looks to be to see. Nobody wants to be to see when they're coming in, looking for like whatever dish they're they're interested in. So yeah. I know in my life today with what we're doing with walking talk media and the whole thing, I have to be in it has to be engaging visually for me to want to go to that place. Period. And if it's not, I'll get around to it. There's no sense of urgency. I have 100% of that. Yeah. Yes. No, it is that. And before I go too far into this, actually, we're very far into this. But man, I just want to say like restaurant events, LLC, Glenn, Paul, Andrea, Stephen, the gang, all Amy, all the people over there who make that show go. Thank you. Because the fact that we're participating and doing the things we're doing with the group at their trade shows, New York restaurant show, California restaurant show, Florida restaurant show, and the pizza tomorrow summit. Freaking awesome. And I just want to put that out there as a big thank you for that. You have shout out to the big shout outs. Alex, you've seen what's been going on in the news with Noma and you know, not just how like that bomb that dropped there, but the food industry, it's a hard industry. It's hard to stay in business. It's hard to stay on the cusp or the forefront, if you will, of food and make money. Are we the public? Do you think we're asking too much from chefs and the restaurant industry at large? That's a good question. Because I'm thinking about myself. I'm like, you know, what, what am I asking chefs, you know, necessarily for when it comes to food, I think, I guess, thinking about it as a consumer, I don't want to say like the public's duty, but like, I think there's always going to be a piece of criticism in whatever that the chef does, right? So, you know, you get to play the food and it's not necessarily to your liking, you don't mean it in a rude way, but just like, hey, if you do a little bit more of this or a little bit more of that, then, you know, your dish will probably be fine. Ultimately, I think if the chef or restaurant tour or whoever is over the restaurant, at the end of the day, you want to make money and you want to make your customers happy. So it's best if you do listen to the customers or listen to the public and what they say. Obviously, some people probably just say like some crazy stuff. For example, my husband used to work at a barbecue place. And I don't think it's open anymore, but it was, it was owned by a family member of his and they did great work because at my old job, it was funny because a couple of my coworkers had been there and they enjoyed the food. And you always say, Robert, he's my husband, you always say like they would get like all these accolades and all these other praise for like their collard greens, but then you have like one person who would say like, oh, you're telling me you're too spicy. And it's like, do you listen to that? It's like, not necessarily like, no, you don't listen to that because you'd like if the majority people are enjoying, I know that was crazy. No, I like the mocking. That's what I sound like. I don't like the one guy got 1000 people love and one person. Yeah. So it's like, if you have all these people who love it and then you have like this one person's like, you know, you know, change it, like, I'm not going to listen to that. But no, I think you I think you're taken into consideration out of respect, right? And then just put that put that one under the rug. Yeah, if it makes if it makes sense, you know, either you change it or you don't. But like, sometimes people just have weird requests, I guess. Chef. Are we asking too much of you guys? Yes. Yes, with the margins we have. What's that thing called COVID knocked out like 75% of people that wanted to work in Gens. Too much. I mean, think about so it's supposed to be a business first, right? We want to make money, or we hope to make money, right? We think we're going to make money. I owned a restaurant for three years. Okay, a little deli named after my late father. I played restaurant for three years. I broke even. Yeah, I paid my landlord, I paid everybody, except me. And as part of what I didn't know what I was doing, the town was still growing as a combination of things, and me not raising my prices, right? So there's a bunch of stuff that came together and that. But it's like, it's endless work. And when you're lucky to get that seven to 10% of the dollar, and then the Yelp was kind of big when I opened my restaurant. So I'm now on down back then to the Yelpers and having to keep them happy bags and cookies out the door and not trying to get any bad reviews. So sure, he was like starting to kind of come around more than yeah back in the day. But get crazy on Yelp. Yeah, Yelp would almost be like they would almost kind of blackmail you into using them. And if you didn't, they were kind of like giving you there's a whole Yelp thing. Anyway, so scared to Yelp, I was scared of my customers keep everybody happy, right? I'm miserable. So yeah, like it's not easy. This is but this is why the chain restaurants range supreme because they have 1000 locations. 30 can be failing, some are doing good. But mom and pops like my hats off to any and today I don't even know how they do it. Yeah, it's privately owned. I mean, for me, I'm like guys is $4. Like I just think about the food costs and everything. Yeah. I was like, Oh, God, everything's gonna go up. Except wages. So yes, asking too much. We gotta make sure we document that. This question is for both of you. What part of the food world deserves more real coverage at this moment? And what part is getting way too much attention? That's a good question. Who isn't being doing that? I mean, I have like an answer, but it might have to be the one they won or what I'd like to see more humanism in it. Yeah, I mean, if you said Jason, like you could have a dream restaurant right now, would it be like a Noma, right? Would it be like, could I go for Michelin or could I have like a restaurant feeding like homeless people? I'd rather do that. I said that earlier, like I've worked in the soup kitchen volunteering and I've served Barack Obama, right? To be honest, I'd rather serve the people struggling because there's, I think there's a sense of that. The humanism like you said earlier, even in stories or I'd like to see that, you know, I think there's isn't like Bon Jovi has a restaurant at make my right. We're talking about Bon Jovi earlier. He feeds people and I don't know, I just, I guess I want some more of that because I really believe we feed people remember it's energy and it is love not to sound cheesy, you know, grandma, Fegi, because she loves you. Yeah. But some like humanism. I love the Michelin. I love the hoity-toity. I've chased it for years, right? But like, let's, I don't know, take care of people more with food. I don't know. No, yeah, I think that's a good thing. But I just sit here and said, you're all wanting too much and the margins are too tight. I need a billionaire. Eddie billionaires out there want to sponsor me good for the food truck. I already got it. It's called Breaking Bread. I already got my proposal. Yeah. But no, I think, I think that was a good response. I think, I don't know. I think once the community aspect is increased, then, you know, eating four out of five hospitality professionals have faced at least one mental health challenge during their career. Stress, burnout, anxiety. These are everyday realities in kitchens, dining rooms and bars across North America. The Burnt Chef Project North America is here to change that. They provide free, anonymous support, direct care, training and self-care resources designed specifically for chefs, servers and hospitality staff. From therapy services to educational modules, they're answering the call for help in one of the toughest industries. It can't be done alone. Your financial support makes this possible, ensuring that every hospitality professional has access to the tools they need to thrive. Join the movement in breaking the stigma. Email uscanada at theburntchefproject.com for donation details and mailing information or learn more about the mission at theburntchefproject.com. Can be more fun and less, less stress-willed for some people? Well, even what she said earlier with, like, so everything now COVID turned into, like, dying. What's it called? All what's all the home delivery companies I don't use. Everybody's getting food delivered to their hell now. It is about sense of community. Like you said, in Tampa, people are getting to know, like, you think about the old days, we'd go to restaurants, you kind of like know people. You think about like Cheers, yeah, he was Norm, he was an alcoholic, but Norm came in, everybody went, Norm, showing my age, and Google, what's Cheers? Everybody just tuned out. Everybody just changed the channel. But we need that, like, let's go to restaurants, right? Because when you look at what's going on, young people aren't getting motorcycles, young people aren't getting drivers license, young people aren't going to restaurants as much. So we're losing some of that community. Yeah. So here's the thing. As you wrap up here, what you said, Jason, I wasn't expecting that answer. And I 100% agree with that line of thinking. If there's anything that I would want to do right now is to be in a position where I can just go feed people. Wouldn't that be cool? Yes. And not just everybody rolls, roys to no shoes. I just want to be able to feed because that's like the best feeling, right? And you know, we've all had, I think, that story where we've given somebody that was needing, and it's just, it's like at Christmas when you give more, and then you get it's always that better feeling. Yeah, like, you know, the homeless people who are like, you know, begging out of red light or something, like, you know, if I had a bag of chips in my car from, you know, getting a sandwich or something, it's like, I only need the chips. So like, I'll just, you know, I'll give them to the person because it's like, you definitely need this more than I do. And it kind of makes me feel good because it's like, I don't know, like, they definitely don't know when their next meal is coming. And just to be able to, you know, give them the opportunity to have a meal or to have some sort of nourishment in their stomach before, before they can actually eat. Like, I would say we all just do those, just go open a restaurant and feed them homeless. Well, here's the thing. And I know that with John and I, at some point, that is going to happen on this, and not necessarily a restaurant, but there's going to be feeding of people that's coming. All right, listen, everybody was awesome here today, Chef, like what you, you cooked up some really great stuff. Alex, I'm thrilled that you made it here. And I think we had a really great day today. Yeah, it was fun. How do people find you? Okay, you can find me on Instagram and TikTok at AliomalliCat. If you are old enough, you can understand the Aristocats reference there. You can follow the zest at the zest podcast, that's Facebook and Instagram. You can also follow my blog, the frugalistalife.com, follow me on YouTube at the frugalista life. And yeah, make sure you like, subscribe, follow all the things Jason. All right, Chef Jay Lynn on Instagram, Chef Jay Lynn on Instagram. You guys are fantastic. John, I can't wait to see the goods. You know what I'm talking about. And listen, everybody, check out our Instagram. Okay, at Walk and Talk show. All right, y'all be good. On Side Two, we are out. I'm in the kitchen with Charlie Bigham. So what have we got here, Charlie? 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