Giants HC John Harbaugh on Dexter Lawrence trade request (4/8 Hour 1)

Coming up today on PFT Live, did John Harbaugh inadvertently reveal something about the giant's new power structure. Dolphins coach Jeff Halfley shares his message to the quarterback that followed him from Green Bay and which quarterbacks are poised to take a big jump in 2026. PFT Live starts next. Wednesday edition of PFT Live, it's April the 8th, 15 days away from the 2026 NFL draft. He's Chris Sims on Mike Florio. You can watch the show every weekday on NBCSN Peacock. You can listen on Sirius XM85 if you're in the UK and Ireland. Sky Sports Action at some point during the course of the day on most days. I haven't gotten any emails from our friends. They're recently saying you weren't on today. So apparently we're on every day because they always let me know and I appreciate them letting me know when we're not on and podcast wherever you get your podcasts. So for now on, I'm going to have to call you and let you know I'm going to wear a hoodie once every seven weeks so we don't look like idiots wearing two blue hoodies on a show. That's the next thing that's going to, I'm going to call you at 545 in the morning next time I wear a hoodie and go, I'm going to wear a blue hoodie today. Is that okay? Can you not wear a matching hoodie like that? Because we look ridiculous. I've worn a hoodie twice in the last eight weeks and the two days I've worn it, you've looked exactly the same. I don't know how it's happened. It's unbelievable, but we look like two idiots wearing blue hoodies here together today. Well, first of all, we look like idiots no matter what we sound like. Speak for yourself. Speak for yourself. I think the first key in acknowledging idiocy is self-awareness, but I'm having fun. Look, you know my routine. Oh shit, I need to be upstairs. What am I going to wear here? I'll grab that. So there's no thought that's put into the attire. This one just happened to be on the clean pile. It's on the clean pile that I've got a great leather chair in my office that serves as the repository for my clean clothes until once every three or four weeks I developed the, what do you live in a dorm? The desire to put them all away. I mean, what the hell we got going on here? We go from like, here's a pile here and I'll get to it, mom, and then I'll move the pile up there, mom. And then I'll put it away, mom. I know that totally sucked out that I've got a system. Yeah, I've got a system. I've got a system in my office where because of the show every morning, I mean, this happened 10 years ago. I used to be able to shower every day in this awesome walk in shower that we have at the house. I used to have a full closet across the hall from my wife's massive lock walk in closet. And once I started getting up at 5am out of deference to her and allowing her to sleep a little bit longer, I started showering in my office because my office is just one of the other bedrooms in the house that I've taken over as my office. So it has a shower in it. And over time, there's a closet there, I've migrated all the stuff that I would wear on the show or pretty much wherever at this point. So that's kind of like where I live now, although I mean, there's no bed in here. Are you still getting up? Yeah, are you still getting up and moving beds in the middle of the night? You're still doing that? Are you? Well, it depends on whether or not the dog steps on my crotch while she jumps off the mattress. I don't know, three out of seven nights. We had broken the dog asleep in the bed, but the dog's back in the bed. But it's good I wasn't last night in the bed. Jill was tired, she went to bed early. I stayed up and worked. I slept in the guest room adjacent to my office. And it turns out at about two in the morning, the stomach flu that has been ravaging the family, we were all together on Easter Sunday. And it hit her. So there is a chance at some point over the next one hour and 56 minutes, I'll be making the Chris Sims style mad. You got a garage, you got a garbage bag there just in case. Well, I forgot to bring one up the closest thing I have, I'm not going to use my bougie route floor and backpack, which is right here on the floor. The Gene Simmons mask, I guess could be really not much else. Okay, really not much else. We're going to have a problem. We're going to have an issue. All right. If I get up and run away, you'll know why. Okay. Stan, the stomach issue, I feel like that was something that kind of went through here up in this part of the country, maybe about six, eight weeks ago where I heard people having that. It's just funny how it, it happens. And you hear about these flus and sicknesses and all that and how it just works its way around the country. But I hope Jill's okay. Tell her, I'm thinking of her. Tell her some Irish coffee might help the situation. I know she likes that. I'll make her some this morning. I feel better, Mike. I take pride in not many things. I am very proud of my vomit streak, Jerry Seinfeld style. The last time I had intestinal disruption, actually upper GI disruption that resulted in that moment that I hate and I always have that moment before and I don't want to make anyone sick. But we've all been there that moment where you're trying and you just wish it would be over and just everything about that I hate. Yeah. The last time it happened to me was the day after Super Bowl 39. That's the last time. Wow. Super Bowl 39. So that was, hold on, let's see, that was 2000. I'm trying to figure this out. The 40 was Detroit, right? With the Pittsburgh and Seattle. So that was the year before. 39 was Jacksonville, Patriots, Eagles. Right. I would have got there eventually. So it was still getting the cobwebs out of my brain here in the morning. Wow. So that was the last time you've thrown up and what was the reason you threw up that day? Just sickness or did you do something, eat something crazy? I got something from my son and this is how long ago it was. He was, that's 2005. He was eight years old, right? And he fell asleep during the halftime show. It was Paul McCartney that year and he suddenly woke up and said, I don't feel so good. I said, get to the bathroom now. And he almost made it. Wow. Almost. And then so the next day, the next day it got me. So that's what it was then. Now it's wash hands thoroughly and avoid my wife at all costs and hope that I don't get it. And we've been sweating it out the last day or so because it was making its way around. And last night we're saying, well, you know, we must have gotten lucky. We both feel fine. And Jill, yeah, Jill got it in the middle of the night. So it may be coming for me, hopefully not until at least 9am Eastern. I want to finish my daily work duties and then I can be sick the rest of the day. I mean, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Yeah, nothing you can do about it. And listen, listen, I've had stomach flu before. Some of this stuff I've had in recent years from the Crohn's attack that I had at the Super Bowl to the vertigo from the migration of the little crystals inside your inner ear that made me think that I was dying. The kidney stone like that's, that's stomach flu is nothing. If that's going to get me, I can I can deal with that. At least I know what it is. This other stuff is like, what the hell is this? So if it happens, it happens. And I'll just deal with it. And, you know, once I'm, once I'm healthy, I will have lost like seven more pounds. So I'll go out and eat a half gallon of ice cream. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. I, I on the other hand have, don't have a 25 year streak or 20 year streak of not throwing up. I'm a little different that way. I've well, it's been well documented on this show before. So I'm amazed by that, that you have gone that long. Incredible iron stomach, really pasta and meatballs type of stomach right there that you can go that long. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the key. I've never eaten a hamburger off the floor. That's a good start. That's a good start. That'll, that'll help definitely. All right. First chapter of the book, first line of the book. Speaking of ice cream. Yeah. And we got stuff to get to and we will get to it. I saw something this morning. And I don't know the name of the person, but he's the Oregon quarterbacks coach. Did you happen to notice this? I don't think I did. He's got this thing he was doing. He was talking at a press conference about decisiveness for quarterbacks. And he always asks kids if they prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream. And if they don't give him an immediate answer, he's not interested in them. Wow. Which I think is just ass in all that. It's a little, a little harsh. But basically, his argument is you've got to have convictions. And if you don't have a conviction about chocolate or vanilla ice cream, I can't trust you to have convictions on the field and make quick decisions and throw the ball where it needs to be thrown if you're playing in front of 100,000 people. I just don't see why anyone hesitating. The best reason to hesitate is why is this guy asking me about ice cream? That's a reason to wonder. I mean, I'm going to maybe double clutch when it comes to that. But if you ask me that question, it's like, well, if there's pie involved, I'll have vanilla. If it's standalone ice cream, I'll have chocolate. I hear you. Yeah. There's some nuance to that. What's wrong with that? Exactly right. You don't want me to play quarterback for you because I only want vanilla ice cream with pie and I want chocolate ice cream if there's no other dessert items that go along with it. What the hell's wrong with that? Now, there are many other reasons why I wouldn't want me playing quarterback for him. But my, my reason, nuance, decision between chocolate and vanilla ice cream shouldn't be a factor. And if that's your disqualifying factor, you're doing something wrong. Wow. I did not see that. And I mean, it's almost actually hard to believe if that's a totally true or like real statement. Now, honestly, what would he do? What would you do if he went, I wonder if he's, Hey, chocolate or vanilla? And then somebody like me would have a quick answer right away and go mint chocolate chip. What's he going to say to that? I'm creative. Look at that. I went outside the, I'm a Holmes. I'm going to come outside the pocket. I'm making plays. I'm a playmaker. I thought of something different there. So I wonder how his thoughts work with that. If he gets thrown that kind of curve ball there, but you're right. There is some nuance to the chocolate vanilla ice cream conversation served by itself. Yes. I will favor chocolate, but if there's Hershey's syrup, chocolate syrup, whipped cream, other things involved, vanilla makes a big power play in that department there. And I would prefer that. So you're right. There's some nuance of that conversation. I'm a deeper individual than that. Mr. Oregon quarterback coach and quarterbacks usually are. So you've got to be ready to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just, I really don't see, like, I know that odd questions are going to be asked from time to time, but there's always a reason for it. The reason that he gave for it just doesn't make any sense. And he may have, he may have crossed out guys that could have gone on to be great players for him. So it just, it, it's, and I don't remember the guy's name and, you know, I, but I saw it. I saw it and I don't think it's AI. I don't think it's fake. Nowadays, you never know. Now you never know. But I thought of that when one of us mentioned ice cream and it made me think of that. I wasn't even planning to mention that today, but that's the beauty of having two hours. You never know what is going to be mentioned during this show. Okay, let's get to it. The New York giants opened their offseason program on Tuesday. As expected, Dexter Lawrence was not there. And it puts into the right context the timing of the deliberate leak to Shefty that Dexter Lawrence wasn't going to be there. Right. The day before it was time to show up and Dexter Lawrence has $500,000 routing on it. Typically you have to be there for 80% of the voluntary offseason program. So he's not going to be there. He's asked for a trade and, you know, that's kind of where they are. And obviously it was a topic for conversation yesterday, Chris, when John Harbaugh met with the media. Yeah, I mean, I'd certainly understand that. I mean, this is, this is a big deal. Like we talked about yesterday. I mean, this is really the first big test we feel like with the new format of the Giants organization. And as we talked about, it's not only the test, but it's schematically football wise is where he, I mean, he fits what they want to do and how they want to play. So when you look at all that type of stuff right there, you go, yeah, that's where that's important. And for a football team who we know is trying to kind of get up the canvas and change the conversation around them, like we kind of talked about yesterday too, well, within that you want to be able to like lean on a great unit you have on your football team, something tangible to go, wait, this is where we're really good. And we can do some creative things here or it's so good here. We can put a lot of pressure on them to help everybody else on the defensive side of the ball. But, you know, as we discussed, when you talk about Abdul Carter on the field and Brian Burns and Dexter Lawrence on third and seven, and if KVON, Tibido's there and he's on the field as well, that's a front four. You'd go, I'd put that up there with anybody in a third down situation. You put those three together, Abdul Carter, Lawrence and Brian Burns together and you'd have a hard time finding, you know, a better three all out there all together in the NFL right now. So that has a chance to be something special and it could start kind of a new era of the, you know, big blue, Giants D, John Harbaugh, we're getting sacks, we're getting after the quarterback again. So I think that, you know, again, is where the importance is and we know defense of line play is so important to your success in the NFL. Let's hear directly from Harbaugh on the trade request that shook up the NFL on Monday. Here's Harbaugh addressing it on Tuesday. I think the prospects are going to be high because the Giants, speaking for the Giants, we want Dexter here and I believe Dexter wants to be here. You know, that's a good formula, but there's business involved. It's a business proposition. We know it's pro football and these things happen every year, pretty much on every team. So not surprised by it. Saw it coming a few weeks back probably and good conversations with Dexter's agent Joel Siegel and understood what they were thinking and this is where we're at. So just try to work through it and see what we can get done. And Chris, he's right about the fact that it happens all the time. We don't find out about it all the time. Hell, when he was in Baltimore, there was a point where Lamar Jackson has to be traded. That was after his contract expired and they were working on a new deal and there was a point in time where it looked like he wasn't going to get one and it was only after the front office told him that, hey, here's our last offer, we need to know what you're going to do because the draft is coming up. That's when he decided to accept it. So there are ups and downs and highs and lows and it is a business and it's good that everyone understands it's a business transaction. Two years left on the deal. We talked about it at length yesterday. The money left is well below market. The APY on the full deal is well below market. The market has gone up. The salary cap keeps exploding and at some point you got to ask yourself, are we going to cling to this contract and say, you need to honor what you signed or are we going to do the right and reasonable thing in this world of one-way contracts? And that's the thing, folks. That's why I always say, always say, when it comes to one of these deals, they are not bilateral. The team can tear it up whenever it wants. The only question is what cap hitter they're going to take. What guarantees do they have? They can rip it up any time they want as long as they honor the financial terms that are in there as it relates to guarantees. For the player, the player's stuck. The player can grossly outperform the deal. Let's go back to the game that was played the day before the last time I puked. If you're just tuning in, you're wondering, what the hell is this idiot talking about? Terrell Owens grossly overperformed his contract with the Eagles. He was spectacular in 2004. He wanted to get, I don't think it was huge money. It was just more guarantees moving forward. The guy played with a broken ankle for crying out loud. And the Eagles, nope, nope, nope, no. Joe Banner was the team president at the time. Nope, nope, nope. You signed your contract. You honor your contract. And think of how differently we view. I'd like to think we, the media, the fans would view that kind of a fight differently today because you got a guy who's earned more and that's where the rubber meets the road. Yeah. Is the team going to cling to this contract that the team can rip up anytime it wants? And hopefully more teams realize the contract's meaningless. At the end of the day, is my guy happy? And is he good enough to be able to say, I'm not happy and get that squeaky wheel grease? That's right. I think, you know, with most teams, they've realized that that's a delicate line to kind of, you know, dance with there as far as superstar player, having him disgruntled. I mean, you know, that definitely discombobulated the Eagles at that time. And we've seen it happen before when you mess around with a superstar and don't get it done or whatever, it filters into the season and can change your football team. I think teams have learned they don't want to deal with that drama for the most part, maybe other than the Dallas Cowboys who seem to ask for it every year. But like for, for this type of situation, one, I would think Dexter Lawrence still wants to be a New York giant, just like John Harbaugh said. It's New York city. He's made a name for himself here. Man, why would you want to leave now just when it's starting to go like, oh, it looks kind of good. Jackson Dart, John Harbaugh, uh-oh. We got some talent here on the football team. So I do think, of course, this is totally about money, which it should be. And we brought that up yesterday. He's grossly underpaid. He deserves to really, as it sits right now, I would say just had a common sense to be the second highest paid detacled in football behind Chris Jones. That's where he should be. And I think this is where it's going to be awesome that the New York Giants have John Harbaugh. Because John Harbaugh, yeah, to me is, is really great in these situations. Even the way he answered that question there, he's calm. He understands the business. He's been around. He's going to talk to the agent. He's going to keep everybody kind of like, Hey, you know, relax. I know it's New York. I know it's sexy Dexie, but we're going to figure this out. And then he gives a little inkling there to go, Hey, I really think he still wants to be a New York giant just to keep everybody's vibes good and all that. And he's handled these situations and big time personalities for a long time, whether that be Ray Lewis or Ed Reed or the Joe Flacco contract situation. And it felt like for the most part, maybe other than Lamar, right? I don't know if really any contract situation ever took over the narrative in Baltimore. And that whereas where I will give a course, Baltimore and their leadership a lot of credit, but John Harbaugh was a big part of that as well. Well, and it may not be an accident that he specifically mentioned the agent. Yeah, exactly. Because there's someone that they can have the conversation with and it gets awkward when management has to have the conversation directly with the player, especially if the team has a hard time getting the player on the phone and communicating and trying to work all of this out. So the work with Joel Segal, and you mentioned the Cowboys, we know what Jerry Jones likes to do. He likes to go straight to the player because he thinks he can get the player to do a bad deal without the benefit of the agent's advice. Here's Harbaugh on whether he will get involved in the negotiations with Dexter Lawrence. Yeah, I'll get as involved as the head coach should, you know, which is I'll be in conversations with with Dawn and with Joe and, you know, but they'll be leading the negotiation. It's not something that I'm going to be. It's not my expertise area. So I won't be involved as far as any kind of negotiating, but I know we'll talk about it. And I'll probably throw my two cents in where I can, but trust them to do a great job. And I know they will. They always do. Yeah, what? Go ahead. Yes. Go ahead, Inspector Gadget. No, I just, do you find it odd that he mentioned Don Apanthe before he mentioned Joe Shea? Well, I knew you were going to say that. I mean, I knew that. I mean, that's how I know we've worked too long together. And then I, you know, I'm like you. Too long. I'm like you too, though, that I do read into things there, but I think it speaks to everything we've talked about. And that, yeah, that's the power structure. And yeah, Don Apanthe, deservingly so, is right up there. And we know that was part of it. So yeah, I mean, again, the answers he gives are like to me almost perfect in that, in that manner, in that, you know, Hey, that's what you want to hear. The head coach shouldn't be involved in it too much. The head coach should just be getting, Hey, what's going on? What's the difference here? Can I help out? Right? You know, can I add some common sense to the situation? What are we fighting over? Oh, it's, it's an extra million dollars. Hey, he's too good of a player. Let's just, let's just get that done. I mean, that's kind of what the head coach does. He's not going to be in the nuts and bolts of, you know, what's the guarantees for this year and what percentage of the play time. He's not going to do that. He just wants to be a guy that's in the know, help out where he can add a little two cents here and there. And I think that's the right approach and usually the right approach for every organization. But the reason that folks, this got our attention when Donna Ponte was hired by the Giants from the league office, she used to be with the Dolphin. She's been at the league office for a very long time, had risen to a very significant level of influence and prominence in the league office has done an incredible job at the league when she was hired, even though Conor of the athletic who was all over the Harbaugh hiring. And at first I thought his, at first I thought his mole was Chris Mara. I think his mole was John Harbaugh. I know that people, people get, don't out my sources, but my God, when you've reported on every nook and cranny of the negotiations, and then I think he, he ultimately had a detailed interview with Harbaugh. I mean, he's getting his information from Harbaugh. And you know, Conor reported after Donna Ponte was hired, she's reporting to Harbaugh. She is someone who has job duties that scream front office. She doesn't work for Joe Shane. She works for John Harbaugh. And Harbaugh said, Don and Joe. Yeah. And if he didn't mean to do it, it doesn't matter. It sends a message to Don and Joe when they hear Don's name come before Joe's. And it sends a message to the rest of us. And I know John Harbaugh would say, Oh, that's just the first name I thought of. Well, okay. He still said Don first. And I was saying yesterday, this is going to be a great way for John Harbaugh to monitor how Joe Shane handles this. What are his recommendations? What does he think we should do? Does he agree with Don? Who do I agree with? I may agree with Don. Joe's got a different strategy. I don't like Joe's strategy. I saw Hard Knocks two years ago. I don't know that this is going to work. I mean, this is just going to be one big data point that goes into the folder that ultimately will be opened at some point in the future. I've seen people suggest he could be fired after the draft. I don't think it's going to come to that. But we've seen GMs get fired out of the blue after the draft. Remember John Dorsey got fired in Kansas City, boom, right after the draft. So it's something to keep it on because there's always, because that's the more natural time on the calendar to make a GM change after the draft. You change a GM before the draft, after the season ends, you're tying a hand behind your back because you got free agency in the draft coming up. The natural cycle for a GM is after the draft. So I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm not saying it should happen. All I'm saying is this Dexter Lawrence situation gives John Harbaugh a tangible way to evaluate the performance of Joe Shane with Donapanti there side by side with Joe Shane in a position to gather information and funnel it back to Harbaugh as to what kind of a job Joe Shane is doing. That's right. I mean, that's kind of what she is. That seems like the current power structure. I don't exactly know what to call it either, but either way, it's liaison. It's, you know, right hand woman to John Harbaugh or in a bridge between Harbaugh and ownership. But yes, Harbaugh wants somebody in the building, in these meetings to be his ears where he's, okay, I'm worrying about coaching the team and we got to figure out what we want to do here. And I'm watching film, you know, for the draft and maybe another free agent out there that we're thinking about. I can't be on the phone with Joe Siegel and be listening to all that and do all that stuff that I need to do here. So now he's got someone he can truly trust in the situation. And we know that was kind of the hold up with the hiring of John Harbaugh and all the shenanigans that went on there. And this is what he wanted. And of course, this is the price you pay, I think, and you're going to see things like this as I think as we go forward when you want a big time head coach, when you want a big time head coach, he's going to take significant power in the organization and want that for all the reasons we've talked about. You don't think some of these head coaches sit there and watch what that hard knocks or Buffalo and look who had happened and went, wait, Brandon Bean was, he's sitting there watching film and hanging out with the owner, McDermott's coach of the team. Oh, his ass got fired. Brandon Bean stayed. You know that resonates with coaches to see that. And I think that's where John Harbaugh came in this situation going, I'm not going to let that happen to me here. I'm going to have a stake in other things and know what's going on and off that's the organization. And I think it's well played by him there. And you know what? That's an excellent point because the most vulnerable time for a coach is during a game. Yeah. Because the coach is down there working. The GM is often sitting with the owner and the GM is in a position to question the coach, criticize the coach, whether it's passive aggressive or whether it's flat out. What the hell is this idiot doing? The GM has an exclusive audience with ownership to say what the GM believes. And I've had an NFL coach tell me that he was at an NBA game at one point in the owner's suite and he was mortified by how they were talking about this. Yes. Yes. I remember. I hope that's not how they talk about me. Yeah. Yeah. When I'm coaching my team. So what's Donna Ponte now? Where's she going to be on game day? Man, what an insurance policy for Harbaugh. If she's sitting there, remember that picture from the Monday night game between the Falcons and the Rams with Rich McKay dead center and owner Arthur Blank was on one side and Terry Fountain of the former GM was on the other and it was like this big table. Like if they're all together in the suite, if Joe Shane says anything about Harbaugh and Donna Ponte's there, Harbaugh is going to know about it. Yeah. Yeah. All other coaches, they have no idea what's being said about them when they're down on the field trying to coach the team. That is a useful weapon and shield for John Harbaugh and he had the leverage to get it. He didn't try to get the most money. What he got was the most juice. Yeah. And he played it to perfection. Yes, he did. The work got out. Yeah. That he was going to be the coach. So what did he do after that? What are the Giants going to do? Back out? All the fans are doing back flips. He was in position to squeeze for more and more and more because the last thing the Giants were going to do at that point was walk away from the table. Yeah. So he played it perfectly and he's got himself a great situation to not just be protected against whatever the GM may say if there's a power struggle, but he's got the ability if he chooses to use it to just take over. Now, look, George Payton survived in Denver when shot Payton showed up and Joe Shane has a chance, but how he handles this I think is going to go a long way toward determining what John Harbaugh decides to do about the GM that kind of works for John Harbaugh right now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, these are tough situations for head coaches, especially ones of the you know, the, the, the capacity or how awesome John Harbaugh is. And we know he's up there with elite coaches in the NFL, Super Bowl winner knocked on the door other times and all that. So this is unique in a situation where you don't necessarily get to come in the door with the guy that you're going to be in your GM to where you go, wait, wait, we're doing this together. We're a part of the interview process together. We've teamed up to go somewhere together. So I trust you. Like the dolphins. Exactly. Like the dolphins. Like we've seen. Let's say Shanahan and Lynch with the 49ers, right? There's no middleman there because it's like Shanahan's like, no, Lynch is one of my best friends in the world. I know exactly what he's going to say and what I'm going to say. And that's how that's going to work that way. Here's one where it's, yeah, the GM's here and John Harbaugh, I think probably looked at it and went, wait, I like some of this stuff. Joe Shane's done here. I like it, you know, but I want to have a little more say. I want to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes at all times, right? Because last, you know, again, they just fired the head coach and he stayed. So he's obviously got the year of ownership a little bit there. And so he, you know, makes this type of move and then keeps Joe Shane and builds with that. And so it's the best of both worlds for everybody. And hopefully, hopefully that can continue here going into the future. And it wasn't supposed to be that way. Shane was supposed to be hiring the coach, but once Harbaugh became available and the Giants realized, this is our guy. This is our guy. This is a no brainer. This is the guy we need. I think whether it was Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin, now Mike Tomlin is not going to coach this year and who knows if we'll ever coach again. But once those big names became available, that's what the Giants need, especially since they no longer wanted to keep dipping into the well of coordinators who had never coached before. They want someone who's been there and done that pelt on the wall and or the horse from Superbowl 47 and a proven track record of contending teams. Yeah, they haven't had a high level of success in recent years, but under Harbaugh, the ratings did a hell of a lot more over the past decade than the Giants have done. Totally. You made a great point yesterday about what it would take to pay Dexter Lawrence and where some of the cash and cap space could come from the speculation centers on the future of Kavon Tibido, one of the two top 10 picks from 2022, the only two picks in the top 10 from 2022 who have yet to check the box as being longtime keepers. Kavon Tibido could be traded. He's got that fifth year option of 17 or 14, excuse me, 0.751 million. The issue came up yesterday of Tibido's future with the Giants. Here's Harbaugh on that. Kavon, his name has come up in trade talks. How do you view him? Do you view him as a piece of the foundation or do you think he's a guy who could be traded? I think he's a great player. I'm excited about him. I was fired up to see him today. He looks great and great shape. I'm thinking about him on the field. I'm thinking about getting him plugged into our defense and getting him rolling. I think, you want to talk about, well, is he a trade possibility? Everybody's tradable. Everybody. You know, even you're a tradable, Dan. If we get something for you, we trade you in a heartbeat, man. Look, there's an asterisk that applies to the notion that everyone's tradable. There's a handful of guys that are truly untouchable. The Giants don't have any of those guys right now. No. Do they really have anybody that would be completely untouchable for a package of multiple first round picks? I think everybody on that roster is potentially tradable, even Dexter Lawrence. If someone makes them an offer that just blows them away, then yeah, we don't have to pay him more than we want to pay him. And we're going to get these, if they would get two first round picks for Dexter Lawrence, those two first round picks become number one, great young players, and number two, cheap players that you control for five years minimum. Yeah. Yeah. But as we know, there's always risk in that. Like you always say, you don't know who you're going to get in the draft, and it's going to work out to the capacity of, whoa, Dexter Lawrence definitely one of the best defensive tackles in the sport. So that's the, that's where you juggle it. And that's where I sit here and go, no, no, this is one of those situations. And I think you're agreeing is just like, we got to make it work with Dexter Lawrence. He's too special that way. Yeah. Maybe if we get a trade blows, it blows us out of the water. Okay. Yeah. We make that move. But, but, you know, as it looks right now, and I don't expect that to happen, I would just go, yeah, let's finagle this and figure this out. And then the cave on tibetal thing is certainly something you look at. Like we always talk about with team building and the allotment of money and all that doesn't make sense to have a guy that's making $15 million a year. I know just a hair under that at 14.75 or whatever that, that he's sitting on the bench for a good part of the football game. You know, as I sit here as a guy that talks, you know, football and looks at this stuff all the time, I'd go nuts. That's not ideal. That's not ideal. So will there be somebody as we get close to the draft or during the draft that starts to go? Maybe we get in the second round. It's day two and a team realizes, man, we kind of missed out like the top five, six, seven pass rushers late in the second round, they're off the board. And can the giants get maybe a third round pick for a cave on tibetal or somewhere in that range? There's a lot of possibilities. Or does it wait till after the draft? Like you brought up yesterday to where a team just goes, oh, man, wait, no, we don't got it. We got nobody on the edge. We were a little desperate. Let's call the giants. Let's see if they'll make a move. And of course, that'll free up some money. And to me, would make more sense. So, you know, it's one of those where I feel like I haven't heard a lot of rumors about it, but my common sense and spidey senses want to say it's going to happen at some point. But yeah, I have heard nothing tangible from anybody to make me believe it's moving, you know, moving along as far as, you know, trading tibetal. And we knew this was coming from the moment that they drafted at the last year. Exactly. At the Carter, Brian Burns, cave on tibetal, somebody does not fit long term, short term, yes, long term, no, and this is the year to do it. And the other factor in this too, if you're the giants, what is somebody going to offer us for tibetal versus keeping him for a year, paying him the 14.751, and then he leaves as a free agent and then you get into the whole compensatory draft pick thing, which Harbaugh's Ravens, and this was a master's dynamic, but I'm sure Harbaugh picks something up along the way as to how to go about maximizing your compensatory draft picks. And so if you can get a third round of for cave on tibetal come 2028, that's a reason to keep him for a year, exactly, and then leave via free agency, whatever someone offers us has to be better to be better than that for a year. Exactly. Having him leave and we get a third round pick the next year, if that's how they end up working that compensatory draft pick board. Yeah, I think that that that's the key. And then that that'll be interesting to see if somebody would give up, you know, yeah, an earlier third round pick, a late second round pick for cave on tibetal. As we know, he's a real good player. He really is. He's just not a star. He hasn't worked out to the capacity of what you expect the fifth pick of the draft to be. I mean, he obviously hasn't worked out to that capacity. They wouldn't have drafted Abdul Carter, like your point is, if that was the case. And last year, they didn't get the most out of Abdul Carter, because they were kind of trying to have their cake and eat it too with everything. And Abdul Carter, for the position he was put in, didn't really get to maximize and show everybody like, Hey, this is why I was the, you know, third pick of the draft. Look at what I can do. No, unfortunately, he kind of got like, Hey, you're awesome. We're trying to make it all work. How about you line up over the guard or the center and rush from there? And yeah, he was the disruption and the pain in the ass. But that doesn't mean it maximizes true capabilities. And when you saw it late in the year and the numbers will back it up, his skills are real. His skills have dual Carter are that of like, you can watch it and go, Yeah, could he lead the NFL in sacks one day in the season? Certainly. Like no doubt about it. He's got that type of ability and cave on tibetal does not have that. But he is a guy that can dance around six, 10 sacks a year. He plays the run hard. He's physical. He's got a big body. So there's a versatility and we know there's value for those guys in the NFL. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what exactly or who exactly tries to make a play for him. And he is definitely tradable. And like Harbaugh said, they're all tradeable. And you and I both agree, they shouldn't trade Dexter Lawrence. But if they get blown away, like a Michael Parsons package, that's when you have to take a look at it. I mean, if the Raiders call up and offer you the first of all picking the draft for Dexter Lawrence, you're not hanging up the phone. Not that that's going to happen. But the point is, they don't have anyone on the roster right now, not even Jackson Dart at this point, where you would say no way, no how. I mean, if somebody, if she's called up and offered Patrick Mahomes for Jackson Dart, they're going to make that trade. That's just, that's an extreme example. My point is Harbaugh's literal meaning applies. Everyone's tradable for the right package. And everyone on that roster is currently tradable. Harbaugh is tradable if it comes down to it, not that the Giants are going to do that. So that's where things stand for the Giants and for Dexter Lawrence. We'll see how it plays out. There's one interesting point that I'm going to be exploring after the show. Who is negotiating directly with Joel Siegel, the agent for Dexter Lawrence? I knew, yeah. I'm going to find that out. Right. Yeah. That's going to tell us something, isn't it? Yeah, I guess so. I guess. Well, there's two things that popped to my mind. That's the person who's moving the pieces on the chess board on behalf of the organization. Yeah. If Harbaugh's not doing it, I want to know, is it Don Apanthe, is it Joe Shane, is it both of them together? I'm going to find out. I would think it's both together probably leading the charge would be Joe Shane. That would be just my common, again, the common sense. Like I know everybody, the Giants, again, are another team whenever I talk about it. People think I know, right? Like we were talking about earlier with Ian O'Connor. You know me. I was banging the table for Harbaugh in late November and people were like, Hey, you know something? And I'm like, no, I'm just reading that, you know, reading the tea leaves and things I've heard in the back channels and Baltimore before the season and all that. But yeah, but, but this like here is one where I'd go, Oh, Don Apanthe is, I was certainly I think is going to be in the room there listening, but she hasn't like negotiated contracts yet. This is new to her. So I wouldn't think she leads the charge here. I would think she listens to Joe Shane knows what the game plan is here has been told a few things by Harbaugh and they work as a team that way. But I would expect to hear Joe Shane leads that phone call. Smart man reads the tea leaves. The wise man reads between that's right. So next level on that note. Let's take a break. When we return the dolphins convened their first off season program under coach Jeff Haffley yesterday. He had a simple message for the quarterback that followed him from Green Bay to South Beach. That's next on PFT Live.