Turn Off Your WiFi Tonight and See What Happens to Your Sleep : 1414

Out of all of the things happening in the world today, what is the single most damaging part of modern technology? Probably sounds like a cliche sort of answer, but I just think that the blue light day, if I really do, I think that's super damaging, not only to our sleep and health and circadian rhythms, but also, I guess, on the other side, the flip side, just the amount of content we're consuming as well is pretty dangerous. And then we have the same thing happening with modern tech where, well, let's acknowledge that AI is causing brain rot and acknowledge that if you don't control your algorithms on social media, an evil dictator will. So, so simple. And the things that we do day to day, come home after work, switch on our lights, how that simple flick of a switch is opening up a whole host of metabolic diseases and impact in our sleep. Just understanding those a little bit more and how it works in terms of disrupting the energy within our body and within ourselves. And, you know, just little simple things like switching from 4G to 5G isn't just a little step up in EMF. It's a huge, you know, exponential increase in the amount of energy you were receiving. And then I did a for bone density and all that. And right where the phone was is 15% lower bone density. Growning out the natural synchronization signals of the planet and of humans with each other and with all life. But if you block all of it, you're probably better off to have at least peace. You're listening to The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Are you ready to plug into the latest science of longevity and human performance? Come to Beyond, the biohacking conference, where biology, longevity, and consciousness collide in real life. Join us May 27th through 29th, 2026 in Austin, Texas. Experience breakthrough tech, meet world-class experts, and connect with people who are also committed to being the best versions of themselves. Because strong community isn't optional. 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If you're ready for the best sleep of your life, order now at switchsupplements.com and use code Dave for 20% off. If you don't sleep better, you get your money back. Killswitch works with your biology. Your body does the rest. Out of all of the things happening in the world today, what is the single most damaging part of modern technology? Well, I think it's, again, this probably sounds like a cliche sort of answer, but I just think the blue light, Dave, I really do. I think that's super damaging, not only to our sleep and health and circadian rhythms, but also, I guess, on the other side, the flip side, just the amount of content we're consuming as well is pretty dangerous. I think that there's so many different opinions out there and, you know, which can be beneficial, but also it's picking what's right for the individual as well. So I think there's a lot of confusion out there, but also the blue light's pretty bad as well. Do you want more censorship? Is that what I heard? No, not more censorship. I think what I want is the people to consume information consciously. Like the stuff you want them to see? Well, no, not so much that I want them to see what's going to work for them. Oh, that the government wants them to see? I'm confused. Definitely not what the government wants. it's not what i don't want to go down that road it's not what so it's what they need to see that's what they need to see got it i'm partly teasing you yeah i'm trying to you know putting words in other people's mouths is my love language so you did not advocate for censorship definitely not it's tough because we know that that poisoning content with manipulative things is bad for you and that creates stress yes but i was totally expecting you to say emfs yeah i mean there's It's expected though, isn't it? I expected him to say that. I did. Show a curveball at you. Go a different route there, I think. Got it. So you don't think AI taking over the world is a problem? I think that's also a problem, definitely. So you live in a state of fear? I don't want to live in a state of fear. It's a state of mindfulness. Yeah. It listens to what's going on, I think. It is probably a better way of using it. But I think a lot of people are living in a state of fear because of it. Definitely. The manipulation from the media and from the feeding of information that perhaps is being forced into them and shaping their lives. But yeah, we definitely need to have more people that are more critical thinkers. More awareness. More awareness. I totally agree. And it's so fun because I keep like misinterpreting what you're saying for fun and profit. I don't know if it's funny, right? But there's a whole mass of problems with tech that are out there. And one of the reasons that I created the whole biohacking word was that I know what computer hackers do. Like, oh, there's a lot of problems with Microsoft Windows. Like, we don't know what's going on in there. And people are breaking into it all the time. And there's viruses. So why don't we just make our own operating system called Linux? And most of what we're doing today is based on that. So we can just know what's going on in there. So the idea of biohacking is like, well, let's know what's going on in here. And let's see what we can do about it. And that means that opens the opportunity for things like red light therapy or other types of light therapy or EMF mitigation or pulsed EMF. so there's all these different things where if we just acknowledge that they're affecting us then we can do something about it and then we have the same thing happening with modern tech where well let's acknowledge you know that ai is causing brain rot and acknowledge that if you don't control your algorithms on social media an evil dictator will it's true and then they'll cook you with 5g right yeah even true but that's the thing you say it's the awareness again isn't it it's not a fear it's being aware of it and it's an option to get out of it much like by hacking You're aware of what's going on in your body because of the environment that you're in. But don't be feared by that because there are options to biohack your way out of it. So don't live in the state of fear like you were alluding to earlier. It is just being aware and addressing it. And that's the idea with biohacking is, okay, if we're not living in a cave or in a forest with all of Mother Nature, which means you die by 40 of a parasite usually. Exactly. So that doesn't work very well. Great way to live. Man, it's like, no matter what you do. So you end up saying, we get the benefits of modern technology. And there's a lot, like the ability to stay warm at night, unless it's too warm, and then your circadian rhythm is broken. But having access to data and to information and monitoring all this, it's good. And it could be found. It's a healthy mindset. I think some people can become consumed by it and can live and breathe by data and forget to be human. I think there's a lot to be said for intuition. And that gut feeling and understanding your own body without always needing data. I think data is very valuable and it has its place. We have the ability to use technology to harness data now. But let's not forget that we are human beings and at the root core of who we are, we know what we need. Are you saying that we should like honor our thirst instead of measuring every swallow to make sure we're drinking eight glasses of water a day? I'm just honest with you. I'm not sure that eight glasses a day is a set rule for everybody. We're all different sizes. I think it's 2000 calories again. isn't it? That whole thing that doesn't really make any sense. I'm so glad you said that. No one ever says how big the glasses are. Yes. Good point. Do you know who made up eight glasses of water a day? Avion. No. In the early 90s marketing, it's all BS. There is no, like, how could eight cups make any sense? You are a little bit of a different size than me. Yeah. Right. And you sweat a lot and i know i'm kidding she actually does right and also you might have spent two hours in a sauna and i just hit a cold plunge yeah and it's dumb like if anyone who has the basic ability to think knows eight glasses of water a day is for people who don't know how to think absolutely and hopefully we would not have had eight glasses yeah we don't have access to that level of water continuously throughout the day so for us it's always been something we've questioned well i think questioning it is intelligent in fact most of the things they 10,000 steps a day that was made up in the 1950s by a Japanese company that invented the first pedometer. There's no science for 10,000 steps a day. There never was. So we're programming these people to say, drink eight glasses of water a day, even if you're diluting your electrolytes. Yes. Right. And then do 10,000 steps a day and you'll be healthy. And they're not even mentioning the quality of the water. Yeah. And it's, so we're in this, I don't actually believe in the word misinformation. The only time misinformation is real is if it's done maybe by like a spy agency, like a propaganda campaign. But really, that's marketing. The people who invented propaganda came to the U.S., renamed it to public relations. Yeah. The same people. That's a good way of looking at it, yeah. And that's from a documentary called Edward Barnese. So we're all sitting in this thing where we've been taught not to trust what our bodies do and that we don't know how to send the right signals into our body in order to get it to do what we want it to do. And some of the signals originally came from nature, but they're gone. And others we can amplify. And what's interesting with you guys is you're playing in a bunch of different fields around that. Out of all the different biohacks that you tried, what was the one that shocked you the most when you were getting Bond Charge started? then for me it was obviously when we started the company it was the blue light blocking glasses how a simple act of wearing a pair of glasses two three hours before bed can dramatically impact your sleep got it such a simple hack and then when we went down the rabbit hole to learn more about how the body receives light light is information right it tells us if it's day or night and allows you to control which hormones you release based on the information it's getting from the light cue and then learning the impact it has on the skin and how that can still impact your sleep on your body clock and further understanding that the simple act of changing a light bulb could dramatically not just impact your sleep your mood and your hormones but how you look as well and how dehydrating light can be so that at its fundamental stage for me was an eye-opening because they're so simple so so simple and the things that we do day to day come home after work switch on our lights how that simple flick of a switch got it is opening up a whole host of metabolic diseases and impacting our sleep. That was my... Yeah, I think for me, and probably should have answered the first question this way, but it would have been the EMFs. Oh, the EMFs, okay. Definitely. Just understanding those a little bit more and how it works in terms of, you know, disrupting the energy within our body and within ourselves. And, you know, just little simple things like switching from 4G to 5G isn't just a little step up in EMF. It's a huge, you know, exponential increase in the amount of energy we're receiving from a non-native EMF form into the body, but then looking at ways to mitigate it and things not being as simple as just blocking it. You know, it's if you're, I made a comment earlier about Faraday cages, like fantastic if you're having a Faraday cage over your bed, but what happens if EMF actually gets in there, it's actually more detrimental to you. So it's not always a simple fix as we think. A lot more thought has to be put into it. So that's where I was sort of with EMFs. I was a little skeptical at the beginning. This is late 90s when people started talking about this. I'm an engineer. I've worked in data centers and stuff doesn't seem to be a problem. We're not heating up the tissues, therefore there's not a thing. But then I met all of these health experts, including medical doctors who were saying, no, no, it's really a thing. And I started looking into the science and I was less skeptical, but I was still skeptical until I had coffee at the Red Rock Coffee in Mountain Views, where a lot of tech startups ended up meeting. And this old guy, who's probably in his 60s, said, I've been wanting to meet you because you're in the longevity space. I'm the guy who invented 802.11b, the first wireless protocol. So this guy's the inventor of Wi-Fi, right? And he says, I have a million dollars worth of test gear, and we can see the the most subtle fluctuations in electromagnetic fields. And one day I got bored, so I turned it around and put it in my body and look what I saw. And he turns his laptop around. It was like one of those three-inch thick laptops, Becca. Turns it around and it looks basically like chakras. He goes I pretty sure there diagnostic data in here Do you know how exciting this is I starting to think this is believable yeah and you read things like the body electric and you realize oh we are electromagnetic beings and we chemical beings right you can you can be both we're also quantum underneath all that so that means that we should be able to hack ourselves that way we should be able to at least influence ourselves and that explains a lot like it is possible so what do you do with bond charge to mitigate EMFs? Because there's different strategies for this. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, we've developed a product line that helps mitigate some of it. But the thing is as well, you've got to take free sort of fundamental hacks as well into your life, which is where you should get started with EMF. Things like unplugging the Wi-Fi at night is a huge one that we've seen massive improvements to our REM sleep from unplugging the Wi-Fi, having our phones on aeroplane mode before bed, sometimes not even having the phone in the, in the bedroom. We sometimes like, what is it like some nights? Yeah. Sometimes we need an alarm, like majority of the time it's out, but sometimes there has to be an alarm to get us up. If we have to be, my phone's next to my bed every night. It's just an airplane mode. Seriously. Like it's a nice alarm clock. Yeah. But, um, looking at EMFs as well, we, we, we had the worst two years of our, of our lives from a health perspective, living in an apartment, absolutely horrendous. We had a building, Marla just come out, to basically tell us exactly what we thought, that we're getting bombarded by EMF. The amount of Wi-Fi signals, even if we switched off our own modem, that was coming in whilst we were sleeping, whilst we were being in the apartment, was really detrimental. We had 5G towers pointing directly into our bedroom. Wow. It was disgusting. It was a microwave. Our bedroom is literally a microwave. That's how she described it. I think that if they measured a lot of modern apartment buildings, it would be illegal to be there. True. Because you have neighbors on every side. Some of them have two Wi-Fi routers and all these other things. And it adds up. All of the safety standards are, well, you have one of these things and they make these assumptions. I don't know how anyone feels good surrounded by that much Wi-Fi unless you literally wrap your bed in silver mesh and ground it out. That's what I would do if I lived in an apartment. I'd sleep in a Faraday cage. Did you guys do that? No, we didn't, because we actually had some controversial information on that, that they said that you can actually be ungrounded by doing that. The advice that we had at the time was to not do that to our bedroom because we were on the third floor, and you can actually be disconnected from the ground, and that has its own host of problems that came from that. I'd rather be disconnected from the ground and not come to buy a Wi-Fi. We just moved house. Yeah, we sold quickly. That would be better. Yeah, absolutely. There's lots of differentiating between native and non-native EMFs, because a lot of EMFs are beneficial for us, touching upon grounding, like we just said. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in the community when we use the word EMFs. They can't differentiate between nature and man-made. And that's the root cause is the issue, is the man-made element. It's basically a form of noise pollution. So I'm making EMFs right now, and I'm actually hacking both of your nervous systems. Positively, I hate it. Let's develop some skill here. Once I get your crypto, I'll be, okay. So, but really we're all using EMFs and probably some other signaling protocols to influence other people, right? We're designed to do that. Of course. And we're not supposed to see it because we don't need to see it because it's not logical. This is, you know, my heartbeat shifts and your heartbeat will shift in response to how stressed I am and things like that and vice versa. So there was a subtle dance. and now there's a punk band playing and you can only hear that and they're not even a very good one unfortunately and that's kind of what's going on with 5g right it's true it's drowning out the natural synchronization signals of the planet and of humans with each other and just with all life yeah but if you block all of it you're probably better off to have at least peace but what would be better would be filter the bad and keep the good so what's the bond charge approach to doing all this technology where you can harness the beneficial frequencies is my favorite modality so things like p emf therapy where you are using technology and emfs but the positive frequency so the delta waves alpha waves beta waves theta waves and then you're connecting with frequencies that are beneficial for you as opposed to the 4gs 5gs bluetooth and wi-fis that are disrupting our body and our biology right are you replacing nature with an electric signal Absolutely. I know. Absolutely. You are for the people that can't get out in nature. Nothing replaces nature. And I say that on every thought they go on. It's always. You don't need any technology if you can get out in nature. The problem is we can't these days. We're working. We have families. We're traveling. Whatever it might be. We can't live in an apartment. Some people are in cities. They can't always get out with nature. So it's a hack. And also, if you live in a house, you don't live in nature. Even if it's in the suburbs or something like that. and it always makes me a little bit crazy when people say oh just go to nature like have you seen a city on the planet there is no nature like go to shanghai go to beijing like go to sao paulo there is not nature that is available and if so it's four trees that's central park it's true it's true that's a reality you have to face that reality and then you do need hacks and you do need technology yeah what if quantum physics could make your supplements work at a whole new level. Ignaton is the only company that quantum charges their clinical grade supplements, so they work better than the same ingredients without the charge. This isn't some woo-woo idea. This is real physics with real results. University studies show Ignaton's cognition formula improves memory, attention, and mental performance more than the non-charged version. 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The Limea laser switches your skin into youth mode. This is clinic-grade cold laser technology, now available at home. It penetrates deep into your skin and triggers repair at the cellular level, not just the surface. Watch your wrinkles, scars, and pigmentation fade, all without stepping into a clinic. No surgery or injections necessary. Experts around the world trust and use this. I use this. If you're serious about changing how your skin looks and feels, this is the future. Go to lima.life and use code DAVE10 for 10% off the Lima laser. That's L-Y-M-A dot life and use code DAVE10. So I'm a huge fan of supporting the ecosystem, restoring the soil, fixing the oceans, having clear sunlight and clean air and clean water. And I'm also going to be indoors a lot. So when I'm indoors, I would like all of the benefits of being outdoors. And having EMF mitigation is a part of that. So I think it's brilliant. If we can identify the most important parts of all of our environment, and we can replay those for ourselves when we're not in it, then we can become a multi-planetary species. You literally can't have a spaceship without knowing how to do this. and we don't know how to do it because we tell ourselves lies about, oh, EMFs are just fine. Because we don't want to face the reality of a life without that technology. And a lot of people aren't prepared to spend the time self-educating or absorbing the right level of information to learn, to know how to overcome it easily. So it's easier to avoid the topic altogether and plead ignorance to it than do a bit of self-education and learning the very simple hacks to overcome it? It sort of drives me nuts. If I had to choose between a life that was 100 years with no mobile phone access whatsoever and a life that was 95 years with a mobile phone, I'll take the 95 years. Because I will have seen so many more friends and done so much more fun and cool and interesting stuff because there is actually value to this. It's connection though, isn't it? Yeah, it's connection. So that said, I think we could probably engineer our phones to cause less biological harm if we would admit that it actually causes biological harm. But I'm still hearing it. So you like PMF and you like replicated some signals, but this is not that scientific. So what are you making at Bond Charge that does something good for EMF? Yeah. So we are, I guess on the post-electromagnetic field side, Katie's spoken a little bit about that, but we're ensuring that our technology isn't admitting copious amounts of EMF as well, because it can be a double-edged sword. You can be doing a lovely red light therapy panel session, you know, maybe a doing an infrared sauna blanket session because you can't get to a regular sauna. It's all about mitigating the EMS from those types of devices as well, because there's so many devices out there that people think they're doing good, which they are by letting the cells absorb the red light therapy or the far infrared light for the detoxification protocols in sauna. But they're also sitting in another hotbed of EMF. So at Bond Charge, we make sure all of our products are very, very low in harmful EMF and sometimes EMF-free where we can to ensure people aren't getting all the benefits of red light and then all the negative benefits of EMF radiation. So if we look at the Bontarge sauna blanket compared to average ones on the market, what's the percentage of lower EMFs that your products are likely to have? Like what's the worst one you've seen and where is yours? We've seen ones that go completely off the radar when to test them with it is that like seven or eight off the radar give me some numbers here we've seen we've seen one at around eight and a half and ours is around 0.6 okay so 0.6 what's the what measure what's the that was in um mill miller gorse mgs i believe okay so yours is 0.6 the competitors were like eight and change we we saw one at that eight and change yes so there's kind of a big difference yeah huge okay cool and that is one of the reasons i like buncharch is just that i know you guys are are paying a lot of attention to that and it's hard to do so lower production of emfs is one of the things you'd look for in your biohacking tech absolutely okay and what are you doing for emf mitigation for mitigation in terms of in those products or within sort of general mitigation don't you have some sort of we do yeah you have products we do lock emf so like explain how those work right i know because you've sent me a bunch of them like yeah you want to know the science how do these actually work absolutely so we put in like we'll talk about a laptop that's the most popular i was thinking of yeah so cool and the one that we sent you and and you loved it's um it's so simple to have it's just literally a map like a dinner map you know put on your table but inside we've got emf protection four-layer fabrics like basically made up of silver fabric, which blocks all the harmful radiation. So Wi-Fi, cellular networks, 5G, 4G, Bluetooth. So when you've got your laptop on your lap, you're not absorbing all of that harmful EMF into that groin area, into your reproductive organs, which is probably the worst place to have it. Another really popular product is our anti-radiation air tubes. So we did some tests on actual wired headphones, and you're still getting obviously the RF radiation passing through the ears they're better than using bluetooth headsets of course but you're still not 100 safe from emfs using the wired ones so with the air tubes we put a little um a little regulator transformer within the top of these hollow air tubes which turned the um rf signal into an acoustic signal which completely eradicated the the emf from going into the brain area and That's the like, you know, the one of the most sensitive areas for EMF to go in is where all the brainwaves are happening, you know, apart from the reproductive organs as well. So those are two of our most popular EMF protection products. I would say so. Yeah. The laptop mats are so important. I can imagine putting a laptop on my lap without using a mat Yeah It just so dumb Of course Yeah But even on the table so many people don realize it The EMFs will pass through the table as well to your lap. So even if you're working at a desk, you don't need it. Well, at least you have some space with the desk. True. Right. But my kids have never been allowed to put a laptop unless they have a pad because kids are even more sensitive to this. Yes. And I see these kids coming home from school and like their tablets right here, their laptops right here. And we wonder why testosterone is so low in young people. It's not just from EMFs. There's a lot of chemical stuff and light stuff and all kinds of things. But I think it's a much bigger problem. And here's one of the reasons. I used to keep my mobile phone in a pocket on my right thigh. I just, I lived on a farm. So I just always wore cargo pants. Plus my style is pretty much extra pockets, extra straps. that you don't need. It's just how it works. So anyway, I always kept it there. And then I did a DEXA scan for bone density and all that. And right where the phone was is 15% lower bone density in my right femur versus left. And it only in the middle of the femur where the phone sits. Wow. And I'm like, this is a problem. It's a measurable problem, right? And I don't hold the phone up to my head. Good. Yeah, never. And now there's people in the audience here who are going, I saw you doing it. Now I'm going to confess to something. When I walk through a crowd, I wrote an SYM, I put my phone on airplane mode and I hold it up to my head and I just say, release the Kraken, release the Kraken over and over. And people think I'm talking to someone and then they let me go through. That's hilarious. So yeah, I was just saying, I was making jokes about releasing the Kraken on Bill Gates the entire time I walked through. But if you see me with my phone by my head, I'm actually, it's on airplane mode. But you've now just divulged that. So everyone's going to know you now. Yeah. They'll be like, Dave's not on his phone. They will. And they'll just be like, I'm going to call. Yeah. The other, the other area as well, that's a concern is the thyroid. People are holding their phones, especially like they see it in Gen Z quite a lot. They're continually scrolling their phone and it's, it's around this area so much, not just the blue light that's having the impact, but the EMF on that sort of hormone hub is, is pretty, pretty detrimental as well. I think there'd be more and more studies come out of thyroid impacts with, with non-native EMF, especially from phones. So do you just never use wireless devices? Well, I think you just got to be smart about it. I think, you know, you just got to limit the time you're using it. You know, can you use a wired Etherneted up desktop or laptop as opposed to scrolling through a phone 90% of the time? It's just limiting it, right? You don't want to go and we were saying earlier to Will Cole when we were on his show yesterday, it's more about finding ways to hack your environment, not giving up technology, not going and living in the middle of a field. Like, are you spending four hours a day scrolling, can you get that down to three, two, one, half an hour? Are there certain times of the day that you can do it? Can you do it outside, grounded? Would that be a little bit more beneficial for the individual? So it's just looking at ways that people can still enjoy that modern technology without severely damaging their health. I would say building more resilient humans by any means necessary is a really good strategy. So then we can use useful technologies. I agree. I agree. Like airplanes. Yeah. Like they're kind of useful, but they cook you with emails. They're not good for you. But I was just on one for 20 hours to get in here. Gosh, yeah. So how do you not feel bad when you do that? And there's a variety of things. One of them that really makes a difference is red light therapy. What are you doing with red light therapy now? We've got a whole host of things happening with red light therapy. It's probably one of our biggest selling collections right now. I think the world is starting to tune into the benefits and the vast benefits that it offers at the different wavelengths, at the different frequencies if we're talking about red or near infrared or far infrared they all offer very different benefits but i think there is a shift happening where people are understanding it's not just a beauty tool because i think the beauty industry although they were later doctors of red light technology the fact that the beauty industry is so saturated and the market quite heavily it became known as an aesthetic product whereas the world is starting to understand a bit more that originated in the well-being industry more for recovery more for performance more for optimizing sleep cellular energy and there is a big shift that we're seeing happen not globally it's certain pockets around the world that understand it more than others unfortunately australia we're finding is one of the last to adopt it they're slow on the uptick the us much further ahead and in fact the middle east we did a big big global red light therapy trend reports at the start of this year and the uae in particular were leading the way with red light therapy and it was as many as 70% of the people we surveyed regularly use it on a daily basis. And we surveyed about 7,000 people. So it wasn't a small segment. So it is starting to shift more back to where it originated, which is in the wellness space. Prior to that, obviously it was in the equestrian space rather than just the beauty industry that it's been known for more recently. I got into red light because I was late twenties. I got whiplash. right the first time i got it someone drove into me at a stoplight and it took a year to heal and i was in so much pain my hands were always cold they had headaches like it messed me up and then a couple years later i got hit go-karting by someone who couldn't read the the sign because he didn't speak english well enough to understand like if the light's yellow i mean stop so just oh no i am did to me and i had really bad whiplash and a friend said well this isn't legal for humans yet It's a red light therapy device for horses. It was a naturopath. And I put it on my neck. And in three minutes, I felt like three lightning bolts go up my back. It was like, what? And then my hands got warm. And the muscles uncoiled. I'm like, I want one. And it was thousands of dollars. So I put it on my Discover card back when people still use Discover card. And I have been into red light therapy ever since because I just felt such a shift. And I was fine in two weeks with what would have been a year of suffering. Phenomenal. And people, when I first started talking about this in the biohacking world, they're like, this crazy guy's like, put butter in coffee and shine a red light on your head because it activates your brain. I'm like, try it. Yeah. And with infrared, which is part of what you guys do as well. There was a guy on a Yahoo group, which is basically Reddit before Reddit existed. He said, you know, I have all these problems with my brain and I saw the one study showing infrared light on a rat brain would penetrate the skull and then improve performance. He said, so I built one in a little pill bottle and I'm selling them. He sold 200 of them. And he said, I did it down the midline of my brain and over a couple areas. He's like, my life has changed. I'm not depressed. Like all kinds of powerful effects. So of course I had to have one and I started using it. And for a while it was one of my favorite tools because it just made my brain work. and then one day he said my brain is so good that i'm going to medical school and he deleted the group tried to remove all evidence of it because he was really selling a medical product yeah right and i still have that in a desk drawer somewhere wow but the reason i really know that it works because i shined it right over the language processing part of my brain above the left ear and of course being a biohacker i did four minutes not two and then i spoke in garbled words for about six hours. And since I made my money at the time talking about cloud computing security on big stages, I was like, I just fucked myself. Okay. So ruined, but I just overstimulated that part of my brain. It took me a while to recover just a few hours and maybe it was good for me, but you can argue that it doesn't work. You can also argue PEMF doesn't work. I love the skeptics. Oh, let me put you on the high powered machine. We'll just put that right on your hip where it hurts the most and turn it all the way out. And then when they jump up screaming, I'm like, it cannot work. Therefore, it doesn't hurt. Get back on there. And at that point, they have to face this idea that that doesn't work because it can't work has nothing to do with whether it actually works. So I'm a huge fan of light therapy. But what I've seen now is you can do it for skin. You do it for hair. You do it for brain. You do it for tissues. So how do you differentiate shape between those different uses of red light? Like what devices do you recommend where and how do we know what to do in each location? Yeah, absolutely. Well, it all comes down to how the two different frequencies of light that is typically in red light therapy work. So you've got the surface level sort of red visible light that you see when you put those panels on or the face mask or the hat, you'll start to see the red glow. That's the visible red lights, normally between 630 and 660 nanometers for those that are interested. And that's some of the most studied wavelengths within red light therapy, the most bioactive. Now you shine that on the skin and it will stimulate fibroblast production, more collagen, smooth out fine lines and wrinkles. Great for that. What Katie was saying earlier, that aesthetic sort of appearance looking beauty sort of industry. You see the face masks, the wands, those types of things. Then if you want to go deeper, you start to use something called near infrared light, which is also in the red light panels. Now that's an invisible frequency. You don't see it. It's 850 nanometers normally. anything between 800 and 80 typically is okay. And that penetrates deep within the bone and the muscle. And what that does is that starts to increase cellular energy, that mitochondrial level starts to free up more oxygen for cytochrome C oxidase to start making more efficient ATP. And that's then the process that starts to heal and repair joints and muscles. So what you do is you just pick a product that, say you have an ailment, say you have a really sore knee, arthritis in your knee, or you have really sore muscles after the gym. You would look for something like a panel or a small handheld red light device that you can shine on that area. Maybe it's a strap, a wrap. Maybe you're just looking to improve the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. So you would wear a face mask. That's nice and close to the face as well. And if you want hair growth, you'd wear one of those sort of hair growth caps as well. But you've also got to look at the irradiance that's given out as well, because you can't just have like a red light bulb because that also glows at 650, 660 nanometers, but it's not enough power density within there. So you've got to go for the therapeutic wavelengths. You want to go for that, you know, muscle and joint pain. You want to be looking at 100 milliwatts per centimeter squared. The face, you can go lower because it's right against the skin, maybe 40, 50 milliwatts per centimeter squared. But we've also seen some studies, PhDs have seen some studies in our Sydney office where you can actually go a bit too high on irradiance as well, and it can start to become a little bit more dangerous. So you don't want to... So what's the danger of having too bright of a red light? I think it's more that it's not the brightness, it's more that sort of power density and the overstimulation of cells from what they've reported. And what would happen if you overstimulated a cell with red light? I think it's like you don't want to over-energize, I guess, the energy production system at all. You don't want to negatively impact it. I'd have to speak to my PhDs around that. I think you have to give the body time to process anything it receives, right? And there are some studies that show that you can actually do too much red light therapy, even irrespective of the radiance that the body needs to process what it's but it doesn't need time to process things you don't believe that you just push it harder and if you just keep pushing it really hard then it'll give up and it'll just surrender i think that's sometimes the difference between men and women say that's quite a masculine yeah women need to sort of nurture and slow down sometimes i'm just messing with you guys okay uh of course of course i'll let you off recovery um you're like you're so masculine i'm like it's funny all the trolls don't say that No. So what I've seen in red light, and I've gone very deep on this for years, is that there's a certain point where for most things, even exercise, you have this inverted U-shaped curve, which means if you don't do any, you get no results. And you start doing, you get results, results, results. And then there's an optimal amount. And then you're on the other side of the U. And then you do more, but you get less and less and less and less. and the good thing about light therapy is that unless it's so hot that it's burning you you're not going to harm yourself with too much red light you just don't get the benefits of it right so it's like red you know good good good good good and then you should stop but it's hard to know exactly when to stop which is why you have recommended usage levels and you can usually do red light like three times a day depending on the intensity and the length and all that kind of stuff. But I don't think there's any risk in any study I've ever seen that says red light therapy is going to actually harm you. The only risk I've seen is that it might stop working because you do it too much, which is different than, you know, you're going to grow a mushroom out of your forehead. That's like more of a Pfizer kind of a thing. Right. I've been making a lot of Pfizer jokes. I'm sorry, Bayer and Monsanto. I haven't been including you in my absolute lack of respect. I will do my best. Hilarious. No, but you're right. But I swear I read a study where they were looking at athletes and some of them did it multiple times a day versus another group that did it once a day And the people that did it multiple times a day actually had a decrease in performance Now I can remember that study I have to try and dig it out and send it through to you if I can find it. But I remember reading, because we have so many studies sent to us to read through it, can never remember all of them. But I remember that jumping out at me because I thought people that were doing it multiple times a day actually performed weaker. Weaker than people who did no light therapy? They did it once a day. Oh, so once a day worked better than multiple times a day. times yeah and it also depends on if they were looking at the infrared or the red side of it too of course of course right and one of the problems here is most science is done in large groups of people right and they go we controlled for all variables and i'm like oh really what was the genetic makeup of the people and like well we got like two white ones and two brown ones and two men and two women i'm good for you what was the genetic makeup like what was their comt gene like we didn't run genetics i thought you controlled for all oh you didn't control for anything go all right well let's let's let's go back was it a man or a woman who who was administering the test like well we didn't we didn't control for that like oh that's funny because if a man feeds a mouse it has a stress response and if a woman feeds a mouse it doesn't i wonder if it's the true like there's all kinds of variables that we don't track so every study including all the red light therapy studies so like in this group of people the average one person in the middle it doesn't even exist. Right. So my advice to people doing red light therapy is do it once. And if you get good results, great. Do it again. If you get good results, do it again. And if it stops working, you probably did too much. Because I would feel uncomfortable saying that for everyone, you should only do it once a day or that it's bad to do it five times a day. Because there's probably five listeners who should be doing it multiple times a day. And where are you when you do it. When I fly, I'm doing red light therapy sometimes for most of the flight. Yeah. Okay. Because I'm mitigating the absolute crap environment that I'm in. And I noticed much less jet lag. You know, your blood doesn't stick together as much when you have infrared light. So there's this really big argument. So I would just say, you know, you have like every form factor of light therapy. There is at Bond Charge, maybe not everyone, but you've got all the different styles you'd want. For someone who's worried they're going to overuse it. Well, try over using it because it's not going to hurt you and then you'll know right and so you can play around with it exactly and i do find like morning and night like i'll use the red light cap morning and night and i think that's all right but i've never you know for two months done it just one or the other and i don't do you guys have studies that have you conducted studies on proper duration of usage we haven't um on our products personally but we for our red light cap we have done okay what did you find because everyone wants to know about hair yeah big topic right now yeah well we found like just in a nutshell and i can send you the the study to share in the show notes but we found just five minutes a day was what stimulated the hair follicle regrowth so that was it was 10 minutes less effective just no no additional benefit okay got it so five minutes is all it took. Yes. Okay. Now here's a question. I have the caveman gene that gives you much less back hair. And I want to have as much back hair as Biolane because that guy, he just looks like a Sasquatch. And I feel like I'd be more manly if I could just be more like Biolane, but not as angry and not as bullied in seventh grade. So if I take the Bond charge red light therapy, I'm so try not to laugh if it takes the bond charge red light therapy and i put it on my back could i grow more back hair you're thinking of the cap now and just yeah i want like a big a big clump of back hair i feel this would be good yeah this could be good you need to give it a go yeah you could be our study i mean and then equals one let's do it if you're open to it this is my sense of humor which is uniquely american but um the real point here i have never seen any evidence that red light therapy increases hair growth anywhere on the body except for on the the head yeah you put it on your hair but it's not going to give you like arm hair no right and that's important to know yeah for everyone who's using red light therapy so yeah and if you're in like a mustache competition it's probably not going to help but it might no can you imagine people using our face mask and then all the women just getting sort of beards. I know, right? People would worry about that. I'm saying that there is no concern about that that I've ever seen in almost 20 years in my therapy. But it does grow hair like crazy. It does. On the top of the head. Absolutely. And I think that's because on the head, one of the big reasons our hair gets weak is mitochondrial problems. And our body hair doesn't typically have that same lack of blood flow and the same bioenergetics. So we don't worry about that as much. So we're talking about light, therapy, different form factors, but PEMFs. How do you work with PEMF? Like talk about the devices you make and what frequency ranges you use and just tell me how it works. So PEMF stands for Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy, in case anybody isn't familiar with that terminology. I should have done that myself. That's all right. We have it in a few different formats. Generally, they tend to come in more of a matte format. It's something that you physically connect with. So like not shiny? Not. Because they're matte. Oh no. You're going to keep getting me. Oh my word. You think I would have picked up on these by now? I flew 20 hours. I had a modafinil. I had three cups of danger coffee. You have to stick with me here. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm just not picking it up, am I? I'm falling for it every time, like straight in over the edge. Okay. Yes. In yoga mat style format, different, very different sizes. But ultimately what it does is if we take it back to the fundamentals of the human biology, and I think you touched upon it earlier. The body connects with the energy of the environment it's around. It always tries to mimic what it's receiving. And that's just the body's way of conserving energy. A lot of people feel it most when they walk into a room that's sort of high stress, like a busy supermarket. They walk into it so hectic. They start to feel quite as rare. Like a medium cafe. For you, that must be a nightmare. Yeah, exactly. That pent-up feeling from that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's because your body's mimicking the energy of the environment around it. But you can use it to your advantage as well. if you connect with beneficial frequencies and pulse those into the body, then you can fall into that frequency state yourself. And that's what a PMF mat does. So you can dial into beta waves, theta waves, alpha waves, or delta waves in the mats that we have created to induce a certain state. So for example, if you were wanting to optimize your sleep or you were feeling a bit stressed and wanted to calm down, you would want to dial into more of a delta wave frequency. That's the frequency that your brain produces when you're in deep sleep. So if you lie on the mat, sit on the mat, or some people like to stretch on the pempf mat and put it on the delta wave setting, it'll pulse that frequency into your body. And after about 10, 15 minutes, your body will start to fall into that rhythmic pattern itself. So it's kind of inducing a certain state. Very, very similar to how grounding works. When you take your shoes and socks off, stand barefoot on the grounds, you're connecting with the Earth's magnetic human resonance, and then you fall into that rhythmic state, connect with nature and your inflammation reduces but you can use other frequencies through a pempf mat to induce a certain state so if i took a bond charge pmf mat yeah and i put it like under the sheets or maybe under the the mattress of the bed of someone i didn't like and i put it on like the the amplify me like the high beta stay like for athletic stuff in the middle of the night would they be unable to sleep it would probably disrupt their sleep yeah it would Yeah. You probably wouldn't want to put it under the mattress. You'd want them a bit closer. I just don't want them to know it's there. Yeah, they feel it. Probably you will feel it. Because sometimes it's dawned with crystals, because quartz crystals amplifies the effects, so they won't feel the bumps. Darn. It's not going to work. So my evil plan to take over the world by taking the evil people and making them not sleep, you shot holes in it. Sorry. Just got to go with the Netflix. I was going to order like 10,000 to send all the Pfizer executives. Oh. Maybe just start a new streaming channel and do what Netflix did and keep people hooked and stop them going to bed. And wasn't that their mission? Yeah, that's right. You do that and maybe like a TikTok type. Oh, wait, no, this is already been done. In the world of PMF, I look at kind of two buckets. There's PMF that's sending a signal to the body. And that's what Boncharge is making, right? So you're saying go into this state. So it's a state control. And it also, I think, has some cellular strengthening and detox effects that are subtle because it's a lower signal. And then on the flip side of it, there are very expensive clinical grade PMF machines that are so strong, they're inducing the electrical current in cell membranes. So these are the ones that you put on someone's arm. And you've seen videos of me where my arm's like twitching. I'm not twitching the arm. It's getting twitched by that. So that's like a high intensity interval training kind of PMF. And what Boncharge is doing is let's gently use the signal to tell the body to move into a state. So if you can't chill out at night, you do that and you get sleep and you can recover faster from exercise and things like that. Absolutely. So a lot of people don't know that there's a difference there. And so what it looks like, I have one, I think it's in my media room right now, unless the cleaning crew might have moved it. But it's usually in my media room and it just looks like a yoga mat, but it's a bit thicker and it has like some kind of bumps on the top of it. Like ridges, yeah. Yeah, and they're full of crushed quartz crystals, right? And strangely, the quartz crystals actually do make a difference. Absolutely. Why? They amplify the effects of the PMF that's been received. Because if you look at some of the areas in the world with high magnetism, like Ibiza, and I think it's areas in Mexico right there. Oh, so you've been to Ibiza? I have been to Ibiza. Everyone who goes there says Ibiza, and everyone else is like, it's Ibiza. Like, why do you say Ibiza? British. Well, it's a Spanish way of saying it, the correct way. I'm sorry. I'm just teasing all my friends are going to... Yes, it's a PFA. But they have very high levels of quartz in their soil. And those areas in the world are very magnetic areas and known for amplifying the effects. So it's just a way of boosting, ultimately, the effects of the PMF signals that you're getting. And there are some people listening who are going, that's such BS. I'm like, depending on how old you were, when I was a little kid, they didn't sell them anymore. but like I think my dad's generation or my grandfather's generation, you could order in the back of a magazine for a nickel or something, a little quartz crystal radio kit. Oh, I have no hearing. And it was a little quartz crystal and a little copper thing, and you'd wind it around. We use those crystals. And so magnets and copper coils and quartz crystals are fundamental to most of the electronics we use today. So there is a mechanism action for it. So guys, we're coming to the end of the show because we're here at Wanderlust Wellspring in Australia. And thanks for taking time out of a busy show to talk about red light therapy and PMF and how to mitigate the unnatural EMFs with me. And I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Yeah, exactly. You're super busy. And yeah, finding the time to speak to us is really, really amazing. You got it. And guys, always get your discount. It's bondcharge.com. Use code Dave, save 15%. So you want some red light? You want some PMFs? Go for it. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast. that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. 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