4.9. The Olympics Withdrawal Episode

welcome everybody to another episode of nobody asked us with dozen cara presented by brooks running i am officially going through oh did you do that people will be confused i i maybe i don't know. Check in to the show notes. I'm shocked. YouTube. What's going on? All right. Well, that actually was perfect because it made me laugh because I'm officially going through Olympic Games withdrawal. And I know that the Paralympics are coming, but they don't start for another week and a half. And I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it heavy. Yeah. So that was good. That made me laugh. Well, let's go through it. We can go through the memories today of what was exciting and fun and upbeat. All right. Well, first, you're training in Florida now. Yes. How's it going? Good. I've been down here a week, I guess now. Okay. Last, this is a funny thing. I feel like if I'm like, oh, it's really warm down here. I had a hot workout. People would be like, oh my God, this isn't even close to what it's going to be. I'm like, yeah, no, I know. But I came from Michigan. And it's warm. And this weekend was like, I think Friday and Saturday was like 80, it was like 88, 90 degrees. Oh no, that's warm. It was significant. People from Florida will be like, no, let me tell you what's warm. I'll be like, oh, I had an early wake up time. They'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me tell you what is early. And like, so I get it. You guys are way more extreme than me, way more impressive than me. It's warm down here. And then there was like a huge swing in temps because this morning was like 40 degrees feels like 39. I was like, fuck, I didn't mind gloves. Oh, really? It's crazy. Yeah. So within, yesterday I did a long run in it. It was super humid, cloudy, poured rain, and then just dropped all day temperature wise. So it's been a whirlwind. Yeah. You're getting it all in Orlando. Who knew? Who knew? But I think it's funny right now that this would be perfect Olympic trials temperature. It would be absolutely perfect. Yeah. I was in Miami a couple of weeks ago and it was, I want to say it was like 32. That's wild. Like we didn't run outside because we were like, well, I didn't pack stuff for Miami being this cold. Right. So it's dramatic swings is my point. Yeah. Anyhow. But are you, okay, well, that is actually crazy. Are you getting settled into a training regimen? Do you have travel coming up? Are you able to stay there and kind of grind for a little while? I have a good stretch of just training, which will be nice. I have a couple small trips. I was planning on doing an Oklahoma event out there, but I think it's going to be swapped for a trip to Boston. And that'll be short. And then I'll go to Bay Area for Oakland Marathon at some point. But that's it. I think those are my two trips. So weekend things quick. And then the event that I thought I had last weekend was actually this weekend. Oh, okay. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah, we haven't done it yet. Okay, we'll talk about it next week. Yeah, I was pretty excited to not have that on the schedule this weekend. Yeah. Okay, so we talked to you. You raced on Sunday and we talked on Tuesday. Now that it's another week's gone by, we're actually talking on Monday. How are the legs now? Did you get any soreness that you weren't expecting or have the legs been okay? Legs have been good. Good. Yeah, I think I got a high 90-mile week last week. Oh, that's really good. Yeah, I did 22 yesterday. So it was not like a – I didn't do a workout last week. I actually went to do something with Ryan. I was like, oh, I'll help you just pace a little bit. and then he passed me during it and I was like oh well obviously you don't need my help and I don't really need to be doing this so I was just like I'm done and then it was also really hot so he did one more and then he was like he was also done maybe if we had just run the same pace we could have finished that we got together right it's like I know I'm being a hypocrite because anytime he's like working out with me he'll be like I'll just pace you and I'm like that's not fast enough by the way. So he did it to me and I'm like, I'll never let him live that down. Yeah. I would do the exact same thing. Yeah. Did Adam ever work out with you? Yes. I was just going to say spousal pacing is really hard. And so like when I ran for the Oregon Project, I had like, I had a pacer who was like employed by the Oregon Project to pace me. But when I was coming back from having Colt, I had a hard time like taking that first big step forward in like my fitness. And I, there was like, I don't know what it was, if there was some fear behind it. So Adam started doing a bunch of workouts with me and even Alberta would be like, you are so mean to Adam. Like Arlen could be three seconds fast and you're like, that's okay. Adam's three seconds fast. And you're like, you're ruining everything. And like, if Arlen's one second fast, I'm like, it's okay. We'll get it back. And if Adam's one second or one second slow, you know, you're like, we'll get it back. And if Adam is, you're like, great now the whole you know and it's true yeah I was so harsh to him and I think it's just because I could be and I knew he was still gonna love me like you know what I mean that on the pregnancy though I could but things going on I could but it turns out that really just happened all the time when he were when he would help me out and I mean I owe Adam so much because my last year with Oregon Project Alberta was traveling a lot with Galen and Mo and Adam was the one that was like there every day, taking me through workouts, helping me. But yeah, even Alberta would be like, even Alberta who hates Adam would be like, you're so mean. Like, no, it's just a run. Yeah. It's a hard, it's a hard gig. And yeah, I just feel like it, when you have a workout that's important, especially the important ones, you're like, this is going to dictate how my mood is for the next three days. So I'd rather mess it up and have it be like my own fault, then you do something that's not even messing it up, but then it goes poorly. And then I'm just mad at you and the workouts. Like, I don't know. I just, I don't like pacers in general. Okay. So that's interesting because I do love a pacer. I definitely have a better workout with the pacer and I'm, I'm always really, really impressed and was really, really impressed with people who could like do these big workouts on their own. So you can go out and do them on your own yeah i don't have a problem with it i actually prefer it because i think it makes it harder but once you get that for like if i can get the first rep in i'm like okay like that's it's not going to get any harder than that one but if it feels way too hard i'm like oh no um but it's nice to have help but i think only only ryan could do it because i could like be like no you're done get out of the way right right or like tell him like slow down pick it up or like we're on we're you know, whatever. And he would get the, like my mindset if it was like, if we're three seconds fast and be like, okay, we're right on. He would just be like, yeah, that's fine. I get it. Where someone else that I don't know that well would be like, what are you trying to articulate to me? This is not right. I can see that it's not there. Yeah. I think it's interesting. Like looking back at my career, there's Arlen Baumann who I trained with for years. We just had a really, like this is making me feel like I should reach out to him. We had like such a good relationship. Like he would always encourage me. And then every once in a while I'd be having like an amazing workout. And if I did pull away from him, he would like move out. You know what I mean? And then, yeah. And he would be excited. Like every once in a while I'd have a day where I could, you know, accelerate away from him and he would be excited about it. His feelings weren't hurt by it or anything. You know what I mean? And he was like doing his own workouts and mine, like sacrificing his own fitness to help me. Um, and I, and I've trained with, I've had so many different pacers over the years, but he's the one that really stands out of like, no, we had like, I don't want to use the word chemistry. Cause that sounds weird, but we did just to get, yeah. Yeah. Different types of chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. And when I look back, I'm like, yeah, like maybe I'll text him today. I don't know. Yeah. It's really on the pod. pacer dynamics. We should. It is intimate, right? You're chasing this dream and they're helping you. I had other pacers and they were fine. No one that I ever didn't like, but I just knew I was going to have a good workout when he was there. It's like part psychologist. I just trusted him. Yeah. If you're pulling away and they're like, oh, they're gaining confidence from this. Yes. I'm going to slowly fade back instead of just step off. There's an art to it, I'm sure. Yeah. I wonder if he thought that or if he was just like, nah, I just was there. No, we seriously might have to have him on. I don't even know what he's doing anymore. He was amazing. He was like a mailman or he worked at the mail offices and he had a full-time job and he had his own running stuff he was doing. And he was meeting me two to three days a week. That's wild. That's crazy. But anyway, okay. So you were going to do a workout and then you didn't. Well, yeah. I mean, it was Ryan's. I wasn't going to do it. And then I was like, oh, I'll jump in and help and do some. yeah i was like no i'm just not gonna do any so um just had a like a mileage week and then did the long run on sunday yeah so that's good did you do anything fun this weekend no just relax which was kind of nice yeah um watched a lot of olympics yes yeah which is great and uh left for the long run super early because we were like oh it's like ridiculously hot we're gonna melt no matter what and then had all day yesterday to just do nothing. So did you guys do your long run together? No. Why are you laughing? No, this is like the most ridiculous thing ever. But we went to this road that is really great out here. It's like this clay loop. And it used to be this 10-mile clay loop, and it was all soft surface. So this is perfect. And recently, in the last couple of years, they paved half of it. So I was like, well, I'll just go out five and then do it a couple of times. And Ryan's like, fine, that's fine. I'm going to do one loop and then maybe I'll connect with you for the second half. So we weren't planning on running together really anyhow. And then we got literally a quarter mile into the sand part and then the entire road was closed. So I was like, all right, well, maybe if we go to the other side of it, it'll be open on the top. and Ryan was like well let's just try this loop and it was like you could run basically two like a mile and a half on the sand and then a mile and a half it was actually less than this on the pavement and then you would get back to the sand so it's just like this three mile loop it was actually shorter than this and he was like at least then you can run on the sand a few times if you want then you can go out and run the road for a while and I was like you just do your thing I'm going to figure it out so I just did this three it was actually two and a quarter mile loop for a bunch of laps like 10 times yeah oh my gosh yeah and he went out and adventured yeah and then he came back I saw him at when he was at mile I think 17 and he was like oh if you just go like a quarter mile up the road you can get back on the dirt and I was like I'm on 19 bro this doesn't do me any good right now. I was like, but next time, I feel like it was a good mental toughness day. Yeah. And I got to do really good nutrition because I just had the stuff on the car. Right. And I got 50% on the sand. Well, that's tough. It was brutal. So when you're doing that, are you shooting for a certain pace or are you just doing time on feet right now? Or something in between? What is your goal when you're doing these long runs? Just time on feet, particularly right now. Yeah. Yeah, I think right now the main thing is just get on the sand. It's not super deep sand, but just like get on the soft surface and know that it's going to slow down, see what I can run on there. And then eventually in probably maybe a week or two, I'll do some of it with a weighted pack. But yeah, I'm not super worried about pace. It's just getting the volume in. Yeah. Were your ankles sore at all today after that or no? My feet are a little sore. Yeah. Not bad. We run a lot of soft surfaces at home. And then I think Black Canyon was like 32 miles of soft surface. So a little bit more packed ground than what I had yesterday. Yeah. It was fun. Cool. You're doing it. You're doing the work. Doing the loops. Yeah. It was brutal. But Ryan, he went off and wandered and did his own run. And then he told me about it afterwards. Okay. Yeah. So that was kind of funny. I guess. That's good. It's like, see you later. Well, that's good. I did a, I did this loop. I hiked this loop with a friend on Thursday that I ran twice when I was dabbling with trail running, but I think it would be a really good loop for you if you ever come to town. I, we just hiked it. Um, it's a little under 11 miles and it's over 3000 feet of elevation and it's tough. And I, I ran it once with my friend, Marcus Hilly. And I ran it once, I think that's the loop I did with Kat Bradley. although our loop was like 15 miles. So we must've added somewhere. But I got to tell you, the first three miles are basically straight up a mountain. And my whole body was like, and we're just walking. We're walking. My body was like, what are you doing? Why? Tushy was like, screw you. I can't take another step. It's crazy how the different muscle groups. I hate the walking. Like I know people are like power hike or just walk. And you're like, I've had this conversation with Joe during Western States and he was like, just walk. It's faster. Or like, you're not going to burn a match on this. I was like, I don't want to be on this for any longer than I have to. It hurts more if I just like bounce up this thing that it's done. Right. And he's like, yeah, but you're like, Like it's, that's a waste of energy. I know. There's, it's a debate. I'm sure, I'm sure he knows better, but I'm like. You have to get really efficient, I think, at like power walking and hiking. That's what I was told anyway. But yeah, I thought of you because I, we finished the loop and I was like, this would be a great loop for Des as not necessarily for the thing you're doing right now. Yeah. But like, as you venture more into like a little bit more technical type racing, be great for you. I know. You need to move somewhere. No, you don't need to move there. You just need to like visit for a few weeks, like different places and just train. Yeah I need to get near trails if I going to run trails Yeah right I mean you do probably need to spend some time on trails It could help All right Yeah So we got some miles in um, and you got a hike in, uh, what else did you guys do this weekend? I saw a little nod to Colt. Yeah. I had a busy weekend for me. So Friday night, Colt got to race at the, uh, indoor performance center, the IPF, the indoor track at CU. And he has, it opened up in 2016 and he's been there for 10 years. He used to like play on the mats while I do a workout or sometimes I'd meet Mark and Heather there just to talk about training. He'd just like run around on his own. He's been going to meets there, you know, for years. And this opportunity came up and I will thank coach Carlson for making this opportunity happen. Sean Carlson, he allowed a high school DMR and it was so awesome. Like some of the kids were super sharp and ready to go. And definitely Colt and his teammates aren't in that type of fitness, but just to be able to race in there was so fun for them. So Colt ran, I'm so proud of him. So he lines up, it's a 300 meter track. He's running the first leg, which is 1200 meters, four laps, right? So he's running and one of the best runners in the country is Rocco Culpepper. And he's running against Rocco Culpepper. I'm just so proud of him. His thing was like, I'm just going to be as close to him as I can be because I know I'll run fast. Yeah. So I'm cheering on the back stretch. And as he's closing the third lap, I see him go to the arms and go to kick past Rocco Culpepper. And right away, I know what's happening. I'm like, he thinks he's done. He thinks he's done. And he's like, holy crap, I'm going to beat Rocco Culpepper. And sure enough, he goes to hand the baton off and no one's there. and he realizes, oh my God, it's not three laps, it's four laps. And so he hung on so tough. I mean, Rocco ran away from him, but he hung so tough and he ran way faster than I thought he was going to run. He ended up running 317. I mean, it's incredible. He averaged 65.5 through quarters, but he was like, at first he was embarrassed. And I'm like, dude, I'm proud of you. You weren't intimidated. You were like, holy crap, I'm still with these guys. I'm going to take it to them. But so once he got over his embarrassment, he was like so happy. Like it was so fun for him to run in there. There were 10 teams and all the kids were super excited to run in there. It was just, it was awesome because he's been there for a decade. He spent time in there for a decade and it was fun for him to be able to race there. And he like understood the significance of it or was it just like, oh, I know this place. I'm excited to run here. No, he was like so excited to run there. Like he was like the night before so excited. And even though he didn't, you know, it was like his first really hard effort in a long time. And there were no like goals. Like his coach was like, just, just, you know, see how many teams you can beat, you know? Um, but he was just so excited to run in there. And he was, he had, there was just, they only brought a boys team and a girls team. Unfortunately, like it would have been cool if the whole team would have been able to come and compete in there and maybe that'll happen in the future. But he was like telling them I used to play on the high jump mats and I used to do all this stuff. And so he had the best time. It was awesome. It was so great. And he's racing, um, the freshman mile at the New Balance Indoor Nationals. And so this was like, I just told him beforehand, like, I just want you to get track hack and taste pennies. Like that'll help you for three, two and a half weeks from now. And he definitely did that. So it was just really fun to see him run. It was just, Yeah. You know, like they have these banners of Adam and I in there and he's running under them. And I don't know. It's pretty cool. Yeah. So I like it. Yeah. So that was Friday. And then I actually drove to Castle Pine Saturday to see a very good friend of mine, Lerilyn Barheight, and spent the night with her. And then we watched the hockey game Sunday morning before I drove back up. So for me, that's like a very busy weekend. Yeah. When you go somewhere, like when you leave home. Yeah. I was like, oh, we went out to dinner. There was like things happening. Very busy weekend for me, but it was all really good. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Did you watch any other track and field this weekend? Some big stuff happening? Big stuff. I didn't catch any of the track and field action. I went back and watched Keely Hodgkinson's world record in the 800. So I knew that there was going to be an attempt coming up. But I guess I just didn't really realize what day it was. So was that on Friday or Thursday? I want to say Friday, but I'm not sure. Yeah. So she had the pace lights actually. I went back and watched it. She had the pace lights set for 153, but she ran 154 something. 6-1. 6-1. Broke a world record that had stood since the day she was born. That's wild. That's such a crazy story. I mean, isn't that like talk about closing the loop. Yeah. It was said on the day she was born. And I have to say like, she was out a little aggressive. I think she, there's still time on the table there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I didn't get to catch it either. Um, but seeing the splits afterwards, you're like, Oh, that was rich to get out that quick. Uh, I think let's run broke down the splits um somewhere i had them but yeah it sounded like the first 200 26 8 26 8 can you imagine 29 0 29 8 that's crazy it's crazy this looked so she looks so strong yeah and for this time of year it's it's just like she's an amazing athlete you know i i think back to like there was this rivalry building between her and a thing Mo. You have to wonder if a thing Mo really pushed her to believe in bigger or to want bigger things, right? Because she was like, if I'm going to ever be Olympic champion or world champion, I have to beat her. And therefore I have to be one of the all-time greats, not just one of the greats right now, like all-time greats. Yeah. So I seriously wonder if like having to face a thing Mo so early in her career, like has really like shattered that ceiling of what's possible. Do you think we'll see a thing Mo come back? Do you think we'll see her this year or do you think she's moved on? I definitely do not think we'll see her this year. But I can see it being a Donovan Brazier situation where she takes a little break and then in a couple of years on her own terms, she decides to come back. I hope we see her again, but I only hope we see her again if it's what she wants to do. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think we'll see her again? I don't know. I mean, I guess I bring that up because it's a real possibility that no, we don't. And that would be fine. I think she had an incredible career, right? Oh, yeah. She won Olympic gold. Right. I mean, out of the gates, like just burst onto the scene, had an incredible year or two, I guess. It's pretty short, but I don't know. That's always like the question, like, would you rather hit the pinnacle and have a short career or do you want longevity but maybe not ever reach the top like do you want consistency and like being pretty good or do you just want greatness and then poof I'm gone yeah I don't think it has to be either or but I just think a lot of times it is right yeah I was thinking about her this weekend actually or basically from Thursday on when the women's long skate was on at the Olympics, the free skate, because Alyssa Liu, like I love her. I made Colt watch her skate. I just like that. I think it's such a good lesson for young athletes of, first of all, she's enjoying it. Her goal isn't a medal. Her goal is to do the best in this moment and to actually enjoy it. And it's hard to get there. She's worked her butt off to get there, but she's still enjoying the process. But she skated at the Beijing Olympics when she was 16. She got sixth and then she was like, no, I'm done, you know, and left for two years and then decided to come back and now is Olympic champion. And I was thinking of Athengmo. I was thinking Athengmo is still very young. And maybe if she had a chance to like go do like Alyssa took two years, did all this crazy travel, was just a kid, all of this stuff. And then was like, you know what? I think I want to try again, but on my terms. And I was thinking, how cool would that be for Athengmo? But you're right. She's already accomplished so much. She doesn't need to come back for anything. It would just be if she wanted to, you know? Right. Yeah. I feel like we get spoiled. And to bring it back to Keely, I think like seeing that matchup would be incredible. It would be amazing. Yeah. I'm firing. Yeah. And yeah, I think they would push the sport forward even more, which is incredible because it's come a long way. It seems like Keely and her camp also just have a lot of fun. like she and uh georgia hunter bell trained together and they both post a lot and they're it just seems like at their practice i mean they always post like them passed out after every workout but they also post a lot like of laughing and going out to dinner and just having fun together and it seems like that group is really i can't remember what they're called right now i'm embarrassed i can't think of their team name it's like it doesn't matter m something i just think like the um the british secret service that's not it i think it's m it's m something but it feels like they're doing it in a way where people are and like they're enjoying the day-to-day and at least cranny's been training with them for a while so that'll be fun to see like how she meshes with it and if she picks up on that or it's just it's also very different and super different far away from home for her. Is it the same vibes? Is she happy there? Yeah. And yeah, I think people underestimate the power and like just someone being happy has on their performance. And like, yeah, coaches can be like, I'm the magic secret. I have the workouts. I have this, you know, the training partners, but also being happy. So I think it's simple, but it's under underrated probably. I totally agree with you. I think like when athletes are truly happy, they are fulfilled as a human. And so then they're able to handle the like, quote unquote, pressure or whatever. And it's so important. I mean, I just think about myself, even when I was at the end of my time with Oregon Project, I was running. I actually was still running well, but I was not having any fun and I wasn't getting any joy out of any of the results that I had. Then I moved back to Boulder and I missed the Olympic team, but that's the happiest time of my career, minus the missing the Olympic team part, but you know what I mean? So I was like happy and I liked the people I was around and it doesn't mean I worked any less hard, but I was fulfilled as a person. And I think, yeah, I just think it's been fun following their group. They're coached by Jenny Meadows and her husband. Jenny was a really good 800 meter runner and yeah, it's been cool to see them have so much success and like be people at the same time. yeah will you do you think are you calling indoor worlds i'm actually not because i'll be on spring break nice good for you never mind is gonna be subbing in for me okay yeah will we see keely at worlds is that something i think she can because she ran the first round at the british champs okay um so i think that she is eligible she because i think she didn't run the final but it was because she didn't have to. She was going to be selected based on her prelim. So I think that she'll be there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's pretty good. Yeah. Worth selecting. Got it. Okay. So we could see her again. We could see her grab a gold faster. Who knows? And okay, here's a question for you. Do you feel like, and we're seeing this kind of in, I guess, the longer distances and stuff. Do you feel like indoor can is or is faster than outdoor at times? Is outdoor always faster? Does 800 become too many turns too tight? So it's slower, like where you see 5,000 meter guys in BU and it's like lab conditions. What do you feel about the two? That's such a good question. And I think that my thought on this has changed. I used to always think that outdoor was faster no matter what, just because of less turns. I'm not totally convinced of that anymore. I mean, our American 5,000 meter record is faster indoors than out. Grant Fisher has the world record indoors. Nico Young has the record outdoors. Nico's was set racing people with a pacemaker. Grant's was set with a pacemaker, but then a lot of it alone, right? Just like churning it out alone. And when I think about the way spikes have changed, and then I think about indoor tracks that are specifically like banked, yeah. And they're giving that energy return versus a normal track, which I know they're changing the surfaces. I mean, they're like, they're having air, like there's air blown into tracks now and all sorts of crazy stuff that's happening on those surfaces, but it's never going to be the same as something that actually flexes and gives you power back. Right. So I don't know. I used to always be like, no, it's always faster outdoors, but I don't know that I believe that anymore. Interesting. What about you? I don't know. That's why I asked the question. I'm not, I don't have any strong opinions. I just, I think we've seen it on both sides where it's like, well, she's running this indoors. So obviously it's going to go much faster outdoors. I guess I could see the 800 and the shorter stuff being like just too fast and that tight of a turn. 5,000, it's a little bit more gradual and gentle. So I don't know, something to that. But one more question for you on that. And I don't know if you'll know this or not, but you said something about air under the tracks and things like that. Obviously talking about the Olympics that just happened. Do you know anything about LA surface? Are they trying to make it fast? I'm sure. I actually don't know, but the track that was laid down in Tokyo, Paris, Eugene, it's like a newer track surface that has energy return supposedly built into the track through little air bubbles. Please don't quote me on this because I'm not the engineer. This is a professional. I mean, it's definitely a new track surface that it's not the same track surface we raced on, but how it works, that part I don't totally know about. I do know that like with the people I work with, they think that Eugene is one of the fastest tracks in the world for sprinting. Okay. Because a lot of the athletes will run faster in Eugene than they do at the Olympics or at world champs. And, um, especially in the 200, they've really noticed it. But so I do think like everything is changing. And so they're trying to, I mean, the sport just wants to keep getting faster, which is great and also problematic, which we've talked about before, but they have to be more creative, I think, on those types of surfaces. Because it's like these indoor surfaces. Yeah. It's just, I mean, I don't know. Will we eventually see a raised- Right. Are you going to take out underneath? Yeah. Are we going to see a banked and boarded track eventually outdoors? I don't know. That would be interesting. Yeah. I think that would be a fascinating segment if they do something to make it faster for NBC to put in a package. Just say. Okay. I want to know about track tech. Give me the story. Yeah it true It would be interesting What are they doing Aside you know because there obviously the footwear is constantly changing It constantly being tooled on I mean the big change came when we were both racing the marathon But then there's it's every year a little finite, like finite tuning with the plates and all this stuff. But then it's also you think, oh, where else can we get time? And then it comes down to the apparel, which I love apparel, but I'm never going to believe that it's going to give you that much time and just not. Yeah. And there's been a lot of innovation on that. And Faith had this whole custom-made outfit for her sub four attempt. But I think the surface that you're running on is where the biggest gains will be made. Well, I know of another spot where gains can be made. And that is with your sleep, Karen. Yeah, that's so good. Good. I knew you'd find a place to just land it. I think that we've talked about this great tool before and sleep is so important in recovery and performance. So we're proud users of Lagoon Pillows. I'm team chinchilla. It's the winning team. It's the flattest pillow on the market, but it's comfy, it's squishy. Helps me get a better night's sleep. What about you? Your team? I'm team otter all the way. Yeah. I like the big puffy one. It's so funny. I slept at my friend's house Saturday night and I slept okay. But then I got on my pillow last night and I was like, oh, I'm going to sleep so good tonight. It's back. Yeah. And then Adam and Colt are both Fox users. But I'm obsessed with my Lagoon pillow. And I know we say this and we kind of joke, but people are always looking at ways to get better. And honestly, good sleep is one of them, right? It's such an easy one and it's underrated, right? It's so underrated. And so, yeah, maybe you have to invest in a pillow. But if it gives you slightly deeper sleep and you're able to sleep a little bit longer, like that adds up. Yeah. And that matters. It's like wanting to go to sleep. Like, oh yeah, I'm ready to hit the pillow. I'm going to set down like the devices. I'm going to hit like a time goal and then get to bed. Like that just goes a long way. And we prioritize our alarm in the morning because obviously you have to get up at a certain time to start your day. Like why wouldn't you prioritize your sleep in that same way? It's such a simple thing. Like you were saying earlier about being happy. like sleep it's so simple and I feel like we overcomplicate all these things we're sleeping with like a ring on or a watch on to like track our sleep and it's and it's like but what actually makes your sleep better is being comfortable yeah you know what I mean I love people that get all the things and then it like gives them sleep anxiety my chinchilla has never given me sleep anxiety I'll say that I'm not trying to hit a score I'm just trying to hit the pillow um and cuddle up with the chinchilla. You can get an awesome Lagoon pillow with a code, nobody asked us for 15% off. I'm reading it in the notes, but you can check our show notes for the link and support the pod and support Lagoon pillows. Any final thoughts on Lagoon team? I mean, I just think like you and I don't talk about stuff that we don't use and I legitimately love my Lagoon and so do Adam and Colt. Like I know people are thinking it's just a pillow, but it's a pillow. You spend so much time with your head on it. You would never be like, well, it's just a mattress. That's actually significant. When your back goes, you're like, what's wrong with my mattress? It sounds like a little thing. It's a massive thing. We recommend Lagoon and investing in the sleep. All the way. All right. Well, someone who's had a pretty big breakthrough recently, I don't know if he was on Lagoon or not, we can't say for sure. I don't know if they ship overseas, but we had a young US man run 207.16. Did I get that right? 14. Ethan Shuley, former BYU stud and another BYU guy who's hit the marathon pretty well. Did you catch this? Do you have any thoughts on this? Okay. I have so many thoughts, but I didn't even know that it happened. And you texted last night like, oh, we can talk about this guy. And I'm like, who's this guy? So then I looked it up and I saw his time and I'm like, what the heck? And then this morning, where did I see it? Maybe it was Let's Run. They had like put together a little article based on the information. Oh, they had talked to his coach. Oh, nice. Okay. And so, yeah, so this kid, he was a state champion from Kentucky. He took a two-year mission. He went to BYU. He raced once for BYU. He was always injured. And then he like goes off to Japan to, for a job. And now he's, I think he's in film school there. And he started running and training. He wanted to do like a hundred miler and ended up dropping out at 60 miles. Yeah. I'm like, who would do that? Des. And then found that he like marathon training just really suited him. And he was able to stay healthy with marathon training. And he's gone from this, I'm definitely going to botch, but he went from like 220 something, to 211 to 207 in such a short time. Yeah. Yeah. That's been a fascinating progression. I don't think it's like concerning. I think he's just like putting in consistent, healthy training. I don't know much about, I guess he has a U S coach, right? It would be, I always thought it'd be fascinating to see Americans go the Japanese corporate team route. I always thought if I knew more about running culture when I had just gone, you know, gotten out of college that that might've been a path I would have pursued. It just looks fascinating to me. Do you know much about the corporate culture? No. No, I think it's just like they have these teams that are funded by big corporations and they represent like the companies trained together. It's kind of like team, you know, like the U S club system or team system. Um, but it's also your job. And And then you obviously learn Japanese and you're working at a job and you're representing your company in these bigger events, which I think is pretty cool. I thought that was my initial reaction was like, oh, he's on a corporate team. That's really cool. But he's completely unsponsored, works on his own, I guess. And it's just figuring it out as he goes. I know he's done some training with Ran to Japan, the Brooks athlete, Jake Bearclaw. Okay. I don't know if I got his last name right. I want to say bear claw, like the snack. Right. Um, I'm sure someone will correct me, but he's, you know, he's got his YouTube channel up and has been trying to, I think crack to 10 for quite a while now. He's running London. Um, he might be running Tokyo as well. So he had a video out and was like, Hey, this guy should be on your radar. Like he, no one's talking about him. He's going to have a big breakthrough. Um, and then, uh, this kid, what's his name again did i say ethan ethan yeah shuli shuli and he's got his youtube channel as well which is pretty entertaining i went and watched um his his uh tune-up race it was a half marathon and he was just kind of talking about the culture too and like these races are gonna get out so hot yes and it's like you don't you just have to be ready to get with it so like how how hard can i go and then hang on and like die less you know that's sort of the strategy because he was out pretty rich too. I think that's where I started first seeing it. It was like, hey, this guy's on, this American's on 205 pace. And you're like, what are you doing? Right. No, I watched that YouTube of him this morning when I was running of him for his Osaka. I think it was Osaka, like his pre-race or his, whatever. He ran a half, yeah, his tune-up race. Thank you. And I also was struck by, he reminded me a little bit of Connor Mance, how he was like, well, they go out really hard here. And so he's thinking, right? And he's researching. And then he was talking about how he did one race and he got dropped and then that was a long way to go. So he had to be ready to go harder than he wanted necessarily. And I don't know. I just think it's interesting. It reminds me too of Jared Ward when you have these guys who are really intellectual about the way they're going to race. Yeah. And it may not be the perfect way for them to race, but they know it's going to give them the best result given the opportunity. Yeah. You know what I mean? To have the company and to be, you know, block the wind and like take advantage of people just going fast or like don't look at the watch. Like all of those things have their advantages, even though physiologically they might not be the best way to get, most efficient way to get there. Yeah. It's so interesting that you watched that video too because that's what I was thinking of when we were talking at the top of the show here about training alone. Because in that video, he probably was home for the holidays or something. And he does like this eight mile hard run. and then he does three by a mile and it's all by himself. And he's just like, I would like, you guys should check it out. It's only like an eight and a half minute video, but it was super interesting. It's just like, I guess what I, when you texted me, you're like, oh, we should talk about this kid. I'm like, why? Who is he? What do you do? And then I was like, whoa, this kid's for real. And so it's, what do you think all the, um, I mean, maybe people knew it was coming that his competitors in the US, but do you think a bunch of them were like, wait, what? When they saw that result? Well, this is fascinating because I feel like the last time we had this conversation, it was with Matt Richtman and it was like, this kid's the future. Let's get hype. And then it's been pretty quiet. I mean, I think injuries and whatever, like stuff happens. So it was like, all of a sudden expectations went through the roof and then it was like, oh, right. But I don't like, do I look at Richtman and go, this kid's just one of the best. Like he's better than everyone else? Or is it like, he just went in with a different mentality of like, I don't care about 210, 206, like whatever, I'm just going to go race. I feel like that sort of, it's the same thing with this kid running that in Japan. It's like, I just got to go out and whatever they go through the half in, and I don't care about the times, I just need to go out and race. And that's all of a sudden where you see like, oh, like 210 is not scary. 209 is not scary. And all of a sudden And they, you know, there's kids that have that ability and there's probably a bunch of them, but there's almost like more of a mental barrier than anything else. It seems like, and I feel like this is just another example of that. I do think it'll be fascinating. Like you obviously start talking about the trials like pretty soon, right? Like, okay, he runs this sort of inefficient way over in Japan. If he comes to US trials and it's like dawdling around for, you know, 30 K, is he going to be lights out good? Is he not going to have the chops to go fast? How does he change his strategy to race with Americans? And will we see him come over to the US and run a Chicago or a New York or something like that and just see how that looks ahead of time? I just think his strategy will be fascinating in the next couple of years. Well, I was going to ask you, 207.14 is contract worthy, right? So I think that that race is probably going to change his life. He's probably going to sign a contract. And I do think that the marathon majors will be recruiting him. They should be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was wondering, are we going to see him now on the start list for London or Boston? I mean, I know it's coming up quick. Yeah. So maybe like a Berlin or Chicago or New York is more realistic, but. Yeah, it would be interesting. Fascinating. Do you jump right into the next thing? It's like, oh shit, I can get a contract. I can start getting appearance money. Like I need to be making money or is like, hey, okay, what the real goal is, is 2028. And let's work backwards and do what makes the most sense long game. And everyone has different strategies for that. I love that. I do love this about our sport that it's like, if you would have asked me three days ago, who are your front runners for the US marathon team, right? I'm thinking Connor Mance, Clayton Young, Grant Fisher, if he decides to go for it. The guy that just won Houston, who will be eligible to represent America. And now I feel like, whoa, this guy just threw a wrench in everything. He's definitely going to be one of the favorites. So it's just crazy. Yeah. I feel like we talked about this at Brooks a couple of weeks ago. And it was like, we were sort of picking, but both you and I were like, there's somebody that we don't know yet. I mean, they might still be in college. They might have not touched the roads yet whatever it is there's some there's a name that we just don't even know yet and they're going to be on the team yeah like i won't be surprised by that yeah and i don't think you can sleep on the puma elite group which has been really really good in the half good in the marathon um i don't think we've seen them in the majors in quite the same way although i guess in new york they had two top four finishes if i'm not mistaken they had and i want to say their guy had a, it might've been Patty Deaver though. I don't know. But anyways, they've had great success. So I can see that rolling on as well. But yeah, the men's side is shaping up to be pretty great. It is. And we've talked about this so much, but I kind of love this for the men because for a while I was kind of like, guys, get it together. Like, how are you not breaking 210 with super shoes and all this stuff? Like, come on. And now all of a sudden, like we just mentioned five people and we're missing five others that I have a clear shot to make this team. So I'm excited as a fan for it. If I was one of the guys that's run 2-0 and thought they were pretty secure and now they're like, dang it, this is going to be a dogfight. But as a fan, it's awesome. And then that's what we need to really get someone on a podium. Yeah. Yeah. And it should be a dogfight. Anybody who was like, oh, I've run 2-0-5, 2-0, whatever, not saying anyone specific and is like, I'm pretty much set. I just need to coast. It was like, that's not how it works. Yes. You know, like that's not, people are always scrapping for those spots and there's no one who just looks and says, oh, that's the guy and I'm happy to finish second. Right. So that's kind of a fun place to be. Yeah. It's going to be good. Well, I'm glad you texted me about him because I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. I spent my morning researching him and watching his YouTube. I was watching like videos from the Japanese marathon. I'm like, who is this guy? There's no way. I've never heard of him, never seen him. It was fun to see the result at the end of that. Yeah, that's cool. All right. Well, do you want to talk about final days of the- The Olympics? Olympics. I don't want to make you tear up. Let's talk about the good stuff. Okay. Well, I was like, I'm going to make a quick list. And then it's the longest list of my favorite things from the Olympics. Okay. I love it. Okay. I mean, this is ridiculous. So first Ben Ogden won a medal in cross-country skiing in the classic sprint. And that was like huge because like Jesse Diggins and then of course, Keegan Randall won in Pyeongchang. And then Jesse Diggins won a couple medals in Beijing, but kind of like we were talking about with the women and the men, the men haven't had that success. So Ben Ogden won a medal. He won a silver, which was crazy. I love that he told himself when he was little, he was like, if I'm ever on the Olympic party, I'm going to do a backflip off of it. And then he did. It's just like so cool. And then he won another silver with Gus Schumacher in the team sprint. So as a cross country fan, that was just awesome to see men making history. Like Ben becomes the most decorated. Like that Yeah Because no one ever I think there might only be one other medal and he won too So amazing And I love seeing stuff like that because you going to see this is going to influence the next eight years You know what I mean? Kids are watching that and they're like, I can do it. Yeah, exactly. This is doable. Yeah. Yeah. And then I love Jessie Diggins and she took a horrible fall in the first race of the Olympics, but she didn't make any excuses. She won a bronze medal with bruised ribs. She got fifth yesterday in the 50K. I just love her. It was her final Olympics. I'm so, I know it doesn't matter because she's the same person before or after, but I'm so glad she won a medal in her final Olympics. We all love her no matter what, but she is by far the most decorated cross-country skier from America. She has four Olympic medals, one gold, one silver, two bronze, I think. And I'm excited for her to like live her life. Right. You know, like to be able to spend Christmas with her family and not be training, you know? Right, little things. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. This list is super long. So if you want to jump in at any point, did you watch the schemo? I did. That was awesome. Yeah. So it's cool. I've loved, so Anna Gibson and Cam Smith got fourth in the team event. Yes. And I love that they were like, we're the happiest fourth place finishers ever. I loved their whole story. I was telling Ryan on the run today. I was like, Anna Gibson was like the happiest Olympian ever. I mean, four months ago, she's not even thinking about it. And then it's just like, you get to go out there and have this be an awesome experience no matter what happens. So without any of that pressure on you or anything like that, you just go get to be your best self and she delivered. They deliver. They race super well. And I don't think that anyone had more fun than her out there. That's so awesome. Maybe Cam Smith was equal to you, but it just looked like she was having the time of her life. I was like, man, I wish every Olympian had that joy. I know. It was so great. I love the backstory where he wanted to ask her to try out for the Olympics with him for the team event. And he was nervous to ask her. And finally, his wife was like, if you don't ask her, I'm going to ask her. And they, yeah, they came so close to winning a medal, which is like insane. Cause just like you said, they just became a team months ago. Yeah. She just got her first pair of ski muskies. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously I, I mean, good chance we'll be able to see her again if she wants to in 2030, right? Like she seems like someone who's very good at that sport. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I had her down. I already talked about her a little bit, but Alyssa Liu is probably my highlight. I love everything about her. I grew up watching figure skating. I figure skated myself a little bit. I was never good or anything like that. But my mom and I really would always watch the figure skating together. So I've always been kind of obsessed. And watching her was so amazing. And then I was watching it and I knew that she was going to win a medal. I was so happy for her. But I was surprised that she won. So then I was even more happy. But I just loved all her interviews. And I just think she's – I just wish that sort of an attitude for my child as he progresses in sport, that he can work really, really hard and there are days that aren't fun. But underlying it all is like joy and loving the experience. Okay. Should I keep going? Yeah. Do you want to save some for top five? Save like two or three. Okay. I'll save a couple. Michaela Schifrin winning. Yeah. She got it done. She got it done. My favorite thing. Well, first of all, she gave an interview and she talked about her dad. And if anyone has ever lost someone close to them, go back and watch it. It's like so poignant. And she talked about how every day since he's died, she thought about he's not going to be here. He's not going to be here. And for once, she just sort of like accepted it. And then she was able to feel him and it was just beautiful. But my favorite thing about it was Adam and I are watching, we put Colt to bed, we're watching the primetime and it's, you know, it's like 9.50 here. Who knows what time it is there. And they go to her live. Mike Tirico goes to her live and she's with her family. And I'm like, she's drunk. And she's just so happy. And she drops an S-bomb. And then at the very end, she's like, I've had an espresso martini. And I didn't love that she was drunk. Not that I care. What I loved was that she was taking it in. You know, not like, oh, no, rolling onto the interview. I'm going to be perfect. She was with her people and they were actually absorbing it and taking it in. Right. So like once the thing opening or closing ceremonies is done, pages turned and then we get to do it. It was like, no, I'm here. Like right here in the moment. Yeah. And I also thought that was like a good lesson. I mean, Colt didn't see it, but I was like, that's amazing. Okay. Okay. Women's hockey team was awesome. I just love them. I just feel like they've leveled up their skill. I don't know anything about hockey. I grew up watching it. I've never played it, but it just feels like their skill is so high. It's amazing. Also, obviously the men's hockey game was also great, but women are amazing. And then I guess I'll keep my last two for my top five, but I will just say that Eileen Gu from China, I love her. I just think her responses and the media, the way she carries herself, the way she treats the other competitors. She's awesome. I love it. Yeah. Do you have any favorites? I'm going to save them for the top five. Okay. I don't have a full list. I know. I was like, you had said like, we can talk about the Olympics. And I was like, oh, I want to write down everybody. And then it was like, this list is so long. It's ridiculous. But anyway, basically the Olympics brings me joy. We can do a quick, I don't want to bring it down, but I think a quick little hit because we were watching closing ceremony and my in-laws are here right now. They're visiting for a couple of days. And they were like, my mother-in-law was like, what's the feeling like right now? Like with this ceremony, it's like so cool and special and they're all celebrating, but it's like they get to the point and they're like, okay, now we're extinguishing the flame. And it's just like so deflating. She was like, what, like, what was, what is that like? And I just, I talked about it mixed, you know, it's like you're pumped, but it's also, you have this, it's a very like obvious, uh, notation of, or it's a symbolism of like, Hey, this is done. It's extinguished. What's going to light your fire for the next, whatever, if it's four years, or if you're Jesse Diggins, it's like for your future, you know, there's this definitely an empty moment. Um, and so I felt it I was just like, it's very, you know, tough, but it's conflicted because there's all this joy and you don't want to just turn that off just because the flame goes out. What was your experience like, I guess, in the two? And we might've talked about this before, but I just felt like it pairs well. No, it does pair well. I think both times there was sadness. I think your youth dream about it for so long. And, you know, obviously there's things that I would have done differently if I were to go to the Olympics now, but I'm also 47. I've lived a different life. You know, I think when I was there, especially the first Olympics, I raced the 5,000 and the 10,000. So I had a prelim in the 5,000 too. So there was like, I raced the first day of track competition and the last. And I wasn't taking it in. I was like, you know, just like, just so focused on the racing and so focused on that. And then all of a sudden it's just over. And you're like, wait a minute, hold on, hold on. I need to enjoy it. Yeah. Like, hold on, hold on. I've been dreaming about this forever. But then it's just like, boom, and you're moving on. And so I felt a sadness. And then four years later in London, I've approached it very differently. And even during the race, when I saw the medals running away from me, I remember thinking, like, be in this moment. My family came to the London Olympics. Not only my mom was able to come to Beijing because it was so expensive. And Colt was there. And I remember thinking, like, take this in. Like so many, like I remember Paula Radcliffe was injured at the time. Like she would do anything to be out here right now. It was a very different like feeling for me. I still was like disappointed after that. I didn't run as I wanted, but I, I appreciated it more, but I still felt sad when it was over. Yeah. You know? So I just felt, it's just like, you'd think about it for so long and then it's just done. I don't know. What about you? Is it similar or different? For sure. I think it's probably pretty universal. I guess other people experience it. You think when you're a kid and it's Christmas or your birthday's coming up or big moments where you wait a year or a couple months or whatever, but then you magnify that, multiply that by years and years. If you're a little kid who gets into a sport and you watch this and you're like, I'm going to do that one day. And you truly believe it's like, that's like exponential for how long you're thinking about it and dreaming about it. And then it's the other side of it. Like there's that emptiness that's so much, so much bigger, I think. But yeah, I mean, I think we're super lucky, both of us, that we had two experiences. Because like you can take your learnings, but it still doesn't make the second one necessarily easier. It's just, there's a level of maybe maturity to it. So there's that. I agree. But yeah, good stuff. I do think it's so special. And I think that that's why, like, it's like when people miss it, that's why it hurts so much when it's over. That's why it hurts so much. It's just because it's really pretty magnificent. Yeah. When you're in it. So there's the ups and downs to it and can't forget the good part of it. And it's like, oh yeah, I got to do that. That's, that was great. Right. Right. All right. Let's dig into those top fives. Okay. Do you have some? I got two. Okay. I have two left. I'll start. I'm going to go shout out again, Corey and Corey from Duluth, Corey Dropkin and Corey TC, who won silver medal in the mixed team curling. And Corey TC became the first American woman to win a medal in curling. She also played in the bronze medal match with the women's team, and they ended up fourth to Canada in that match. But still amazing. I mean, fourth in the world is not bad. And I just think it was fun to see someone from my hometown. It was fun to see her make history. So there you go. There's one. I like it. I like it. I'm just going to go with all the athletes in the Olympics as a whole. I feel like it's such a tough position. You work your whole life. And then there's all these like just little traps that come in that you're not expecting, you're not anticipating, then things that can derail you, that can make the experience tougher and just like everything's magnified. And I think no one particularly prepares you how to manage it, but everyone figures it out and they get it done. And it's just, I'm impressed that these athletes do it with grace, it seems like, and just so well. So yeah, to the athletes. That's a good one. I know they're all so amazing. This is not an athlete. Well, Haley Wynn was on the women's hockey team, but her three brothers were the ultimate hype boys. And I loved how much they believed in her and like dressed funny every day, but really they were there for her. And when she won her gold medal, they were just a puddle of tears. And so to the Wynn brothers, you guys were awesome. And if only every athlete had support system like that. Like they would genuinely were so pumped for their sister and believed in her. And one of her brothers made a really cool little video of her like skating around when she was little with them. And it was just cool to see them so proud of her. And also just like congrats Haley on your gold medal too. Right. Yeah. I saw, I think it was a little clip with them where they were like doing all the outrageous outfits and the whole thing. And then for the final game, they were just like, we're just going as her brothers. Cause it's not about what we're doing today. It's about her. And so I should be on her, which was pretty cool. Yes. Um, all right. I'm going to go with the skate gala because I love that. It's just this moment that the athletes just to go get to go have fun and like do something creative, be a little crazy, um, and showcase their skills, but they're not being judged or critiqued. And like, I just, it's fun to watch that other side of the athletes. Ryan was like, what could they do for like runners? If you have to go do a social 5k or something afterwards, like, yeah, that wouldn't work. But for the creative sports and the artistic sports, I thought that was pretty cool. I love the gala. It was awesome. Yeah. Just seeing them like let loose a little and do different stuff and not be stressed about hitting a certain jump. Yeah. But Ryan's right. Like, what would runners do if you're like? I know. I'm also like, how did you have time to come up with that routine? Like, I know. I know. And they like get invited while they're there. So they don't know if they're going to do it or not. Yeah. That whole thing is crazy. Yeah. Like, surprise, you have to perform again. But they all seem like they're having so much fun. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm just going to say the Olympics in general to end it. Because. Love that. Man, I love it. I used to do my homework to the Olympic theme music. I still have the CD. I just have always loved it. There's nothing that no matter what's happening in the world, like watching the Olympics reminds me of the goodness. And I just, it's so inspiring to me to see people living out their dreams and whether they win a medal or not, like I've been to the Olympics, I never won a medal. So I know how hard everyone's worked and you do too, that got there no matter where they finished. And I just love seeing it. It's like the best of humanity. Yeah. Yeah. I thought Mike Tirico had a great closing segment after the men's hockey game, I believe. That kind of summed it up. It was really cool. People should go look it up on threads or Twitters or Xs or whatever you're using. I thought he very succinctly kind of summed up the games and how important it is, even though it's just sport. Right. That's cool. Yeah. But yeah, I think it was pretty special. And, but wait, there's more. Don't forget about the Paralympics. It will be just as inspiring and incredible athletes. And, yeah, I feel like they don't get enough attention and love. I mean, maybe they do, but it always feels like they could use more. So make sure you're tuning in and following the athletes. We'll remind you guys. It starts March 5th. There we go. So, yeah, it'll be great. And I do feel like the Paralympics have just grown each year. And obviously, you know, they don't get the same attention. but if you really want to watch it, it is all on Peacock and stuff. So you can watch them and support them. I'll definitely have it on going on all the time because like, it's cool. I'm going to be hurting until. What else are you going to watch? The news? Yeah, exactly. But I love that shout out. Yes. We will get back on the Paralympic train March 5th. Love it. All right. Till then. All right.