4.5. The Brooks HQ Episode

What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode. Another episode of Nobody Asked Us What Doesn't Care, presented by Brooks Live From. Presented by Brooks Running Live From. Brooks headquarters in Seattle. Wow. Yay. Done better, but IRL, we're squirrely. We are together. It's really awesome and we just had to record while we're together, right? Yeah, I mean we had to record anyways because this is the day we record. You will see starting last week, when I'm noticed, a Wednesday drop 5 a.m. We're gonna start doing that more consistently. Yeah, you guys can plan. You know when it's gonna come. Yeah. You can be ready. Your Wednesday runs just got enhanced. That's right. Switch your workout day to Wednesday because it's coming in hot. I like that. Okay, so we're gonna, we have a special guest today. We're gonna get to and we have other little stuff that we want to catch up on, but we did want to sort of acknowledge the stress and trauma and just... Tardic tension. Tension, everything going on right now in our country, specifically in Minnesota and it would be weird if we didn't acknowledge it, I think. It's been really hard for me. I've been open about it on social media, my community seeing them go through this and it's been tough, but I also feel like we can maybe give you guys a little break from the news and hang out with us and hopefully we can give you an hour of peace and laughs and think about other stuff. I feel like we had a great conversation last night and in-person conversations about hard things were really helpful. Yeah, for sure. We did that and now we're gonna lighten things up. We're gonna lighten things up. Yes, I know. Our thing last night was we all wish that we could all show each other compassion. So that's my show people compassion tip for the day. I don't think that's controversial at all and anybody who thinks it's controversial, we can get controversial and tell them to stuff it. True, right? True. Let's all leave with compassion. That's the basic thing. Okay, well now we're gonna switch gears and be happy and talk about fun stuff. You just had a Brooks training camp in Arizona with the elite Brooks Mavericks, which are the people that are not on... They're just the Brooks professionals. Okay, so they're not on a half-mast team or Brooks Beeson? I bet our guest will be able to clear that up. Sure. Teaser. Teaser. We don't know. Let's ask the pros. Okay, so tell us a little bit about your training camp because you had some testing you did. You got to try product. Tell us a little bit about what happened there. Yeah, no, it was good. We started this last year and it's just a chance to get the athletes together, kind of meet each other, hang out, socialize without the pressure of a big event. And then when you go to the big events, you have your buddies and it doesn't feel as intense. You have people you feel like are teammates and can rely on even though we don't all train in the same place. And so it was great. We kicked things off with Topgolf, which was epic. You should watch professional runners do other sports. It's quite fun. And everyone walked in and was like, I'm gonna be terrible, but also it was secretly super competitive. Oh, yeah. And we watched some... I'm not gonna name names because everyone tried their best. We watched some people learn how to swing a golf club probably for the first time. And what I'm really trying to get to is that I won the first round, dominated the scoreboard. Obvious. No, the game, it's not about how far you can hit it. It's about getting it into the points box. Nice. Okay. That was great. And then, yeah, we did some stuff with different teams, apparel, footwear, looking at uniforms, content, all kinds of stuff. And so it was a good kickoff. And some of the folks did testing. I did not because I had a very specific long run and I got on some trails, some Arizona trails. So proud of you. Good job. I'm here, I'm gonna take advantage. And they were like, we don't need to test you. We know you're awesome. We know your scores are great. Yeah. So I just got a gold star. And they were like, great, great job. But it was cool. It was cool to connect with everyone. And I think pushing this ahead, but we're going to talk about lever. And one of my highlights from the trip and a lever moment that I'll bring up later was from camp. So a little teaser there. That's awesome. Okay. And you're on the road. I was on the road. What were you up to? How are you doing? How has travel? Where have you been since? I just was in Boston. Just across the country. The New Balance indoor games. It was awesome for a first meet of the year. You know, the first meet of the year is like, you're excited, but it's the first meet of the year. So there aren't normally like crazy performances, but the athlete showed up. It was awesome. They ran really well. I'm sure we'll get into the results a little bit. And then I booked it out of there because the storm was coming. And so like Otto, my coworker got stuck there till last night. So I took a flight from Boston to Dulles and then Dulles to Denver. Yeah. The way over was worth it. It was worth it. I got home. I landed around 1am. I got home around 2am. But I got home. Yeah. That's a key. That was good. It was important. Yeah. But it was great. It was fun to start off the year. You know, I work with those guys so intensely for like World Champs or the Olympics and then you just don't see them. Yeah. And so it's always really fun to kick off the years, get it going again. It's a smaller team indoors than it is outdoors. So it's not our full team, but it's just, it was good to have a mic again. It's fun. Did you feel like it was rust buster or did it feel like you hadn't missed a beat? It felt a little rust buster. Yeah. Yeah. It's just sort of like I'm not, I haven't been talking about these athletes for a while. I, you know, the cadence of calling races. I think I, I mean, I think I did all right for my first meet. I think it was my best first meet, but it wasn't my best. Sure. Well, the first meet usually isn't. Right. I hope that you will get better throughout the year. Yeah. I think like you just start to get into the rhythm. Like this weekend we go on air again and you just start to get into the rhythm. But yeah, the first time, plus we always end the fall, like I call marathons for the world feed. So it's like a shifting of the gears to go from Marathani, which is more podcast style and casual to the, yeah, they're going to be done in a minute and 42 seconds. And you have to tell this entire story. Every word map. Yeah. Totally. Totally. But it was great. I mean, there were two world records, the men's 2000, Hobbs Kessler one, Grant Fisher really went for it, zeroed in on the back of the pacer. He was like totally locked in. Yeah. And Hobbs Kessler kind of sat behind him. And as the race went on, he just kept looking really, really good. And he was able to sprint away. And when he talked about afterwards, how he's worked on punching his finish and not trying to leave something for the line. And I thought it was really cool because Hobbs Kessler had such a successful 2024 season, made the Olympic team in two events, made the final in the 1500 and got fifth at the Olympics. And then last year, he didn't make the world championship team. So it's always interesting to see athletes like that because they can like rethink everything, like question their training, question their coaches, or they can take a long time to get back out on the track because they're a little bit scarred. But he stuck with his plan, you know, believes in his coach and what he's doing. And first race of the year sets a world record. So pays off. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's a weird year where we see a lot of like big decisions being made because there's enough time to maybe adapt to them. But it doesn't necessarily mean like, patience is a part of that too. Good for him for like, feeling like he's in the right spot, he just needs to give it enough time. Totally. Yeah. That was exciting. Did Hobbs ever, I mean, did he ever look like he wanted to lead prior to that finish? Or was this all about showing that explosive finish? I think he surprised himself. To be honest, like he, they were running around and Grant Fisher was like going to grind that out, you know, like that's his top end speed. And he was just, you know, yeah. And he's on a mission. Like Grant Fisher is so thoughtful with the races he chooses and he doesn't show up half baked ever, you know, but he just looks like a little bit more strained. I don't even know if it's strained, but just a little bit more rigid Hobbs looked like he was jogging. And at first I was like, Oh, he might like just get blown out the back, but then he just kept surviving, surviving, surviving. And so I think he surprised himself. Yeah, it was pretty awesome for him. Little pivot, we didn't talk about this, but I always do it. Grant Fisher to the roots. How you feeling about that? I'm liking it. Yeah. You know, he's going to run the two mile mill rows this weekend. And then he's going to run the New York City Half marathon in March. I think it's the perfect year to take some chances. Look, Grant has been so good on the track. He was fifth at the Tokyo Olympics in the 10,000. He was third in Paris. And so I don't think he has to move up, but I also think an athlete like Grant is like, what's my best opportunity to medal at the Olympic Games? And that might not be on the track anymore. And so I think it's great. He's going to try this half marathon. He talked about potentially running a marathon between now and then and just figuring out what suits him best. What do you think? No, I think it makes sense. As we were saying with the changes with Kessler, which he could have made, it's now the time for everyone to make those decisions and commit to whatever direction they're going to go. And I think that he's going to test it and see if that's a path worth pursuing now or if he should wait and just kind of stick on the track until the next Olympic cycle. So it'll be fun to watch. I think he's going to be great on the roads. I think it's going to be like, dang, should I have been here two years earlier, if anything? But I also, I feel like he does have unfinished business on the track. Yeah, I could see him wanting to run at least one more world champs and maybe running that in 2027. But I also think he is the kind of athlete that does think really big picture and takes some of the personal emotion out of it. What is my best chance to win a medal on home soil? And whatever that is, I'm going to go all in on it. But I'm on a kind of like a fact finding mission this year to find out what that is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's go. Take me back to me balance. Okay, well, there were only four distance races in the broadcast window. So there was a woman's 1500, Dirkus Iwoi of Kenya, who was a surprise silver medalist at world champs, won it. She looked great, super relaxed, Sinclair Johnson and her new sponsor, which can be scary new shoes. She kind of sat back and then tried to like boomerang at the end, you know, come wide and she just didn't she ran super fast around 401, but not quite enough to run a Y down. But it was a good race. I mean, they were like 401 and then there were women right behind them for the first meet of the year. It's like, yeah, does it does it scare you at all that people run that fast that early? Do you think about big big picture this year? Do you think about I guess world indoors is a factor? Do you think people are gonna take breaks? Or is it just like, doesn't even matter anymore, people can just be fast year round. I don't think you can be fast year round. But I'm like, yeah, I'm just yeah, I'm just like an old curmudgeon where I'm like, no, you can't do that all year. Yeah, but I do think this year allows because there is no Olympics or world champs, which is stretched out over so many days, there is the ultimate world championship. But that's kind of fun and new. I think this gives a lot of athletes are at least what I've heard is they are really focusing on an indoor season, trying to, you know, go to that world championship and get more global experience like that championship experience. And then they will reset after that. So we'll see. Will they get ready for the ultimate world championship? There are so many questions about the ultimate world championship, like, how do you qualify it? I mean, it's it's not that many people, it's all straight finals. So yeah, it'll be fine. I just like the name. Yeah. All right, take me back to the chat. I'm sorry. Okay, so the women's 15 was great. And then women's 3000 LA St. Pierre. And I think 820, I want to say like 826. Yeah, I mean, what? Maybe 828, I don't know, but something very, very fast. And she's coming back from having her second child, Harvey, who she had in May, when she had Ivan. Ivan was born in February or March, March. So she's two years, two months closer to having given birth. But watching I was there when she came back from having Ivan, she actually got second at the New Balance Meet. She is so much further along. And it's it's really impressive. I mean, and she's just so gritty. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things you line up and you have like, the best excuse in the world to be like, yeah, you know what? I think I'm at my max. I don't have to win right now. I don't need to push, but she's just such a competitor. And that was the one race I was able to watch. I was actually on doing a shoot most of that day. And so I think CJ had it on his phone and we were watching it. And I was like, you got to be shitting me. I know. I mean, I thought that Jess Hall, it just came off of anchoring her, her team at World Championships in the mixed relay to win. So she and she's seeking a world record attempt in a couple of weeks. So you knew she was sharp. And so I just kind of thought, oh, well, Ellie will be with her. But then when Jess like really lays it down, Ellie won't have that kick yet. She's a different level. Yeah. And she's still, you know, coming back and she's not there. But no, that's not what happened. So it was super impressive and cool to see her back out there. And then the meat, well, the meat ended with a men's 300. But the second to last event was the men's eight, where Josh Hoey went for the world record. And we were arguing in the production meeting the night before, like half the team was like, there's no way he's going to get it. And half the people were like, he is an eye was like, he's going to get it one on one. Because the guy likes to front front front run, brazier, hop, well, they're not in this race. So he doesn't have to worry about holding something at the end to hold them off. Save a kick. He can, he can just go for broke. And that's the perfect place to be. And his brother, who he trains with on a daily basis is pacing him. So I put my cards down on, he'll get it. And he did. Yeah, that was close. It was very close. Finish. He yeah, eked it out. Big dip at the line. That was cool. I mean, 29 year old record that he broke. Yeah, I mean, do you want to talk about any of the off air races? Because there was some good stuff. But also, there was, I mean, there was an excellent men's 3000, which didn't get airtime. But it was a really good race. We saw Graham Blanks come back after Will Cross, I think he ended up third. Cam Myers of Australia, who's a teenager. Yeah, one and looked so good. So he's going to be headed to Milrose. And so a lot of these guys are headed to Milrose now this next weekend. But it was, I mean, I think we were all caught off guard by how fast the races were. It's surprising. Yeah, certainly the first time in a big meet. Yeah, year. You just never know. It's like, Oh, Russ Buster. No, no, no, they came in locked and loaded. So it was a good meet. And it was just fun to like kick off the year with excitement. Like, yeah, well, it also like really tees up. Milrose, before we introduce, I'll get our guests, I'll save the commentary on the 300. Okay, but tell us a little bit about the upcoming meet, what you're excited for, and how we can watch it. Yeah, so Milrose will be on NBC or Peacock, both from four to six p.m. Sunday, Eastern Standard Time. And the distance races in that window are a women's 3000, a men's two mile, and then a men's and women's mile. There are 800 stew, but I won't be calling them. So I love Milrose because it's like distance heaven. Like those are the races that are highlighted. Those are the races that end the meet. And the women's three, I'm trying to think. Joseph Andrews is coming back after being second last year. There's someone at that race who's really good. I can't think of it right now. So I'm sorry. And the women's want to make her mile. You have LA St. Pierre, you have Dorcas, Ayoay again, who just won. You have Nikki Hiltz back after being fifth at Worlds last year. Jess Hall is in there. It's a very, very good feel. That's like a global final. Yeah, Sinclair Johnson will be in there. Yeah, it's gonna be really good. And then I think that that is the more exciting of the women's races. They'll both be great, but it's just so loaded and with people that are running fast and that we know are running fast. And then for the men, I think the two mile is gonna be insane. I mean, everybody wants the world record. Josh Kerr has the current world record, but everybody wants it. And he's in there. Grant Fisher is in there. Cole Hawker, who broke the American record in the 2000 Friday night. And then Hobbs got it the next day. So there's a lot of other people in there too, but that's gonna be a great one. And then the want to make her mile is the highlight of Zola. And I got to say, I'm very excited to see what Yard N'Guz does. Yeah, he's going for title number four, I believe. And we know he's a great miler, but kind of like Hobbs Kessler, he didn't have the season he wanted last year. He broke the world record indoors. Ingebrigtsen broke it a week later or something, but he was on fire and ran really well early. And then he went for the world record at pre and ended up getting caught right at the end. And then kind of just looked a little fatigued after that. Right? Yeah, I mean, another elephant in the room, but little grand slam fatigue. Oh, right. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, I mean, he did grand slam, which yeah. So I just think he he just probably did too much, did a lot more racing than he's normally. And when the knee normally does and at USA is he just looked exhausted, right? And he didn't make the team. And that's after winning a bronze medal at the Olympics the year before. So it's going to be interesting to see him come back. I'm sure he is like ready to go. Yeah, I don't think he lines up unless he's ready to rip. Totally. But you know, who else is in that field? Hobbs Kessler. Love it. Hobbs Kessler, who is kind of on this tear of like, I have nothing to lose. And that's also a great field. There's a ton of guys in there. So both of those races and both of the women's races are going to be great. Love it. Well, I'm excited. I'm going to tune in this week. I think I'll be home. No, I won't be home. But I will watch. And if not, I'll catch the replay and then we'll talk about it next week. Yeah, we'll break it down next week. Now let's talk about that 300 incha. That 300 meter incho. Yeah, I don't know how many of you saw it. But there were only three men in the race, which is already kind of funny. And then I at the production meeting the night before, they couldn't tell us but they said, no, Lyles is making a big entrance. And like, we're going to be cameras will go to him. So we were all kind of guessing what it would be. We kind of thought he'd come out like a fighter. Oh, yeah, a little big. Yeah, with like a robe and a hood. That's not what happened. Yeah. I just saw a little clip of it. I mean, I don't understand. No, he's like it out of my age range. Right, right, right. Doesn't connect with me. But he did a lot of like, he came down from the crowd onto the track and then he was riling everyone up. And he's a showman, right? Like that's his thing. And sometimes I wonder if that cost him though, because he got like nipped at the line. And like, maybe if he hadn't like run and jumped up and down. But but that's like a part of his weaponry is that he gets in everyone's head and he feeds off of that. And so yeah, I appreciate Noah Lyles for trying to be different and trying to bring eyeballs. You know, I'm just trying to imagine like a distance runner doing that, like coming down from the stands ripping their clothes off. You had a distance runner who had to do that. Whose intro would you be like, I'd watch that. That's a good question. Male or female? I don't know. I mean, it just makes you think of the Inga Brits and Kerr rivalry, right? Like they would I could see come down in their like opposite sides of the track, like meet in the middle turn and get to the start line. Like I just can't imagine any of the women doing that. And I can't really imagine any of the men either. So maybe like, yeah, with their like them coming in with their people, you know, right? I mean, I could see it working with Kerr and Inga Britson. But if it was like Ngoose. Oh, yeah, no. You just be like, it would kind of feel like Lyles. Exactly. Well, you know, love the effort. I think we should have that type of intro for our guest today, because this is a pretty special episode. We're recording from HQ. And we kind of breaking news. So we do have breaking news. Do you want to break? Do you want to say it? Or do you want to just bring on the guest and unravel it? I think we should announce it and then bring on our guests. Okay. So you announce it. No, you did. Well, we have big news, which is that we just signed a three year contract with Brooks to support the pod through 2028. And we're super excited with this. We've already been partnered and with Brooks, but with this new contract, it gives us the ability to do a lot more live pods. Yes. And meet and greets and check out runs. And so I'm excited because with our new contract, it just allows us to interact with everybody so much more. Yeah. And I think it gives us time and space to tell athlete stories. Obviously, the Brooks athletes who we are getting to know really well. No, plenty of them already, but just dig into those stories and kind of bring them to you before anyone else. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's exciting. So we obviously have been partnered with Brooks for a while. And our contact here is Garrett Heath. And he is going to join us today to chat about all of it. Yeah. Welcome to the pod, Garrett Heath. Garrett Heath, introduce yourself as your role at Brooks, but also give us a little background of your start in the sport, your relationship with the sport. Sure. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I'm the head of sports marketing at Brooks here. Ben, with Brooks for a really long time at this point, I think I joined the company back in 2014, maybe. I moved up here from the Bay Area, I joined the Brooks Beast team, ran with the Beast for about seven or eight years. And then after that, I took my crack at trail running. Down with the trails. Love that. Until I found out what trail running was. And then I realized that my body wasn't totally built for it. But no, I've loved the journey with Brooks. And then yeah, about three years ago, 2022 or 2023, joined the team officially here in sports marketing. And it's been a fun ride. And even though my career has wound down, I think it's been really rewarding to be a part of helping other people's careers and just being a fan in their corner in this role. Well, tell us a little bit about how you got into running and your career because you're not just like the sports, like part of the reason why you are the sports marketing guys, because you get it. You lived it, right? So talk to us about Minnesota and how you got into running. And also tell us about your other sport that you were very, very good at. And talk us through your stupid college. Valid, valid. Well, to clarify, Matt, I really wanted to consider Colorado Boulder for college, but the coach never really reached out. It's a common story here in Wentmore. Come on. It didn't make the cut. But no, I grew up in Minnesota, small town, which I'm sure probably no one listening to the podcast has ever heard of Winona, Minnesota. 30,000 people, great community. The home of the Winona Wind Hawks. That was our high school mascot. But no, great community. We had two incredible coaches in cross country and track who had been around for a while when I was there and really just, I think, like most people. I think high school is a really formative time in your life. And so I credit a lot of my values to them in life that still continue on, just not just running. I mean, they were great coaches, but I think not so much that part is just kind of like defining who I am as a person. And so, you know, outside of family, I would say they're probably two of the most impactful people on my life. But yeah, I ran, you know, I ran cross country and ran track and high school. In the four months in between, I literally didn't run a step. I'd cross country skied, which, Kara, I know you also did. Brutally cold at times, but just awesome team bonding sport. We took a lot of really long bus trips to Northern Minnesota, you know, five hours each way. I think, you know, I just, I grew up in a family. We went to Colorado in the summers. My parents both worked jobs where they had summers off as professors and working in the school system. And so super lucky to go out there and kind of just like grew up in an endurance family where we kind of, it was almost like altitude camp as a young age, but not like in a pressure sort of way. And so, like, just did a lot of things growing up and didn't really focus on running specifically until I got to college, you know, wait, brag on yourself a little bit because you weren't just like a high school runner. You were a very good high school runner. I ran, I won a couple of state titles. I think, let's see, I won 11 if you include skiing, but there's, you know, if you and each, you can win three a year in skiing. So that's maybe a cheat code. But yeah, and I think, you know, Footlocker at the time, which I'll give a shout out to Brooks XC, who's been a really cool one for us this year, was a really impactful moment for me. And I think a moment coming from a small town in Minnesota, like colleges don't necessarily pay attention to Minnesota. Like, it's not California. There aren't the flashy times. I was really slow and track typically compared to cross country because I was like different body physique coming out of cross country skiing built up the upper body. Not running times are really stood out, but Footlocker was kind of that chance to make a splash in the national scene. And I think like stand out and, you know, I credit to like, probably having most of the interest that I got from college coaches, I didn't make a big enough impact for Boulder to pay attention. But I was, you know, like high enough for, for most. I ended up at Stanford. Yeah, okay. What was then, which is now Brooks XC, but you made it to nationals twice. Right? Correct. And that's only when 32 kids went. That was when 32. Yeah. I just wanted to stick all his momentum. Hold on. You're not a nobody. I'm like trying to hide the Stanford thing. Colorado and Stanford had this total rivalry when I was there. Yeah. So it's like, you and then your fricking brother also went there. It was like, come on guys. But it was, I'm sure it was a good choice and a very good education. Yeah. It was, you know, it was right for me. And I think, you know, again, coming from small town Minnesota, a lot of the decision process, like I was considering Minnesota, Wisconsin, a lot of the schools that I just looked up to and people I knew had gone there and were going there. And I think, you know, a lot of my mind said, obviously it was like academics. I think you have to make your running decision knowing that running careers are typically short. I was very lucky to have a very long running career and still be in running now. But that decision was partially anchored in thinking, I didn't know professional running was a thing. And so I was like, I'm going to move to the real world in four years. I need to set myself up for success. And it's a great education. And, you know, I think I also had the thought of if I'm ever going to leave Minnesota, this is probably my one opportunity to see what the rest of the world is like. I can always come back here. I love Minnesota, but you know, I'll go see the world and find out for myself. It wasn't totally what I thought. I think I, you know, thought that California was like surf beach life, which obviously in a recruiting with the find out maybe isn't the case. But yeah, still very beautiful weather and a great school. Okay, tell us how college went. You ran at Stanford, you were very good. Right? We, yes, it was a good, I had a good college career, well, good enough to run professionally afterwards. I ran, I think probably I had some good individual results. I think probably the best thing I did in college though was actually our DMR team won indoors. And I think that was a really, that was a really, that was the most memorable moment probably for me, you know, as a group of guys that you just spend training together so much. And I think, you know, it's a bummer that that event doesn't really exist anymore beyond college, but it's such a cool, unique opportunity in the indoor season that I think like just brings teams together in a way that track you normally don't get. And yeah, I think, you know, so that's always one that I'll look back on. I was second in the 1500 outdoors. I got beat by German Fernandez, who was a freshman at the time and he actually did most of the work in the race. So there's no excuses there, you know, and I think, you know, post collegial, I think my best, the best part of my career was cross country. But I think people also think of me as they're like, Oh man, you've dominated cross country your whole life. And I was really good at high school and college. I was just horrific. Like, I mean, I don't know, I think, you know, I, I mentally really want to be a Myler. And so I forced myself into the mile in short distance stuff. But I think like, yeah, I peeked too soon. I got too revved up early in the season quite often. And so training camp in the summer early fall, usually I was really fit. And by the time we got to nationals, I was like, totally cooked. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember meeting you at the World Indoor Championships, I think you were just pretty newly signed as a pro. But you obviously made a splash on the world stage in a number of different events indoors. And then I think we have to talk about cross country and how you excelled as a professional. Anthony Ramos sent us a text message and he like pulled up a picture of you just being a beast. And he's like, yo, I didn't know this about you. Our listeners might not know. Do you want to talk us through some of the races in Edinburgh? Yeah. And tell us about the course and how they were. Sure. Yeah. I love Edinburgh. I've had a good history there. But I think I just, I love this idea of true cross country, you know, and I think in college here, you get some of it, but like the American side of the sport has gone more and more towards like golf courses. Yeah. I think nationals isn't necessarily that way. But throughout the season, coaches want their athletes to stay healthy and not, it doesn't get, it's not as draining to run golf courses. So it's gone more and more that way. But Edinburgh is like, if you've never been to Edinburgh, Edinburgh is Seattle on steroids as far as rain goes. Like it's literally, it just feels like it's always raining there. And so it's super muddy. It's super like, it's dreary. Like, I don't know, like there was varying conditions in the years that I was there. But I think the ones that stand out is like, there was a year where it was like 33 degrees and like standing water. And there was, you know, like years where it was downpouring. And, you know, it's like, but it's just gritty. And I think the part that I love about cross country is it's not, it's not like, there's a beauty of the track where it's like you're, you're you against the clock. But it's not measured. And it's like, you don't know what splits are going to win it. You don't know what splits you can do. You're literally, you can't, the watch means nothing. And so you're literally just trying to gauge your effort throughout and gauge like the other people around you to like listen to their breathing, listen to their footsteps, like understand, like, you're thinking of every line, you know, you're taking the tangents. Are you thinking of the outside corner because there's less mud. So yeah, I just, I love the gamesmanship of cross country. And yeah, you know, I was lucky to, I had a really, really good stretch in Edinburgh. And I think, you know, I can't remember. I think I won the first year in 2014, which like, you know, it was, it was as much of a surprise to me as anybody else. I think like, as Bell Kiprop was there, Bikili was there. So like, these people that like were like heroes of mine, that I was like, I don't belong beating these people. Yeah, actually walk us through the first time you beat like that specific race, beating Kiprop and Bikili. What are you thinking as you're pulling away from them? Like, when, when did you decide to take the lead? Like, these are people you've looked up to, right? And there's some of the like Olympic champions, world champions, world record holders, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to take it to you today. Like, how did it unfold? When did you know we were, that you should pass them? Yeah, yeah. No, the first time, the first time I went, like, I mean, I don't know if it's worth like going into like a full story about this, but I was moving at the time I was in, I was living in Palo Alto. And I was moving up to Seattle. And I'd actually put all my stuff in storage because I didn't know where I was signing or where I was going and what I was doing. So I was living with my brother in Portland for like three weeks over the holidays. And this race is early January. And so like, I knew I'd signed with Brooks, but I hadn't moved to Seattle. And so I literally went to go to the airport in Portland to fly to Edinburgh and realize that my passport was in storage in San Francisco. And so like, I don't know, like, what did you do? You know, like, it was a little better than it is now with like travel, but you still needed your passport to go international. And so long story short, an incredible person at the airport allowed me to change my flight to go to San Francisco. I spent the night there. I went to my storage unit, I got my passport, and then I flew to Edinburgh and I got there like a day late. And so like, all it is to say is I think you learn going with international travel and races that like, growing up, you're like, man, I need everything to go perfectly to have a good race. And, you know, after what was probably the worst lead up to a race I've ever had, probably had my best race. I think sometimes it takes your mind off of the things you would otherwise be nervous about. So going in, honestly, I didn't have that much time to think about it. It was, you know, I was like, this is an insane field. I'm really excited to be a part of it. My agent at the time, Dan Lilo, you know, shout out to him for getting me in because I didn't even know what this race was. And it wasn't until like, fairly late in the race that I remember just being like, these guys actually look tired. Like, I'm just kind of waiting for people to move. And I was like, I think they're tired. Like, I don't know, I feel pretty good. Is this okay? Like, am I allowed to pass you? Yeah. So it was a 4k the first two years that I won. And then it was an 8k the third year. So. Nice. Cool. I mean, yeah, you had some great success there. I think you also beat Mo Farah at one point. Obviously had the, was it a streak? Or did you have a, like an off here? No, one, three years in a row, which like, to be honest, every year was like a little more surreal. Yeah. Like the second year I went back and it was like, still nobody expected me to win. I think I'm misremembering. I think it was like Kiprop the first year and Bikili the second year. And so like, every year we was like, yeah, this guy won last year, but like, it was a fluke. And I was like, internally, I was kind of thinking the same thing. You know, I was like, probably a fluke. And then the third year, yeah, it was 8k, which like, I would say 4k was really in my wheelhouse. 8k was like, felt a little long, you know, Mo Farah, obviously the credentials that he has, I was like, well, it was a nice run. Well, it lasted. We did a ton of media before. I mean, what year was this? This was 2016. So Mo Farah is coming off of winning the double at the Olympics. It's coming off the Olympics. I mean, it's not like a jump. No, it's like his home country. Although I would say the fans were split. Maybe it was equal fans, maybe. But yeah, I remember like it was cold. Everybody looked a little uncomfortable. We did like a bunch of pre-race media where they were like, they brought me, but it was the Mo Show. And like, I was there because I had won, but like, everybody was like, sure, Gary, do you have a quote? And then like, it'd go to Mo for like 30 minutes. And then, Gary, do you want to just like stand over here? We're going to get everybody in with Mo. Can you take the picture? But no, I think in that race, it was very similar. I was like, I'm just going to bide my time and really just try to like, conserve as much energy as I possibly can. Until the very end, you know, if I'm still around, then I'll try to kick. And you know, it just like, eventually it just started ramping up and like, I knew the course a little bit. And so finally put in a move with like 800 to go and Mo stuck with me. But like, I did have the lead and I was like, maybe, I don't know. And like, it wasn't until you cross a little stream, which again, foreign concept outside of, well, I mean, tell Hassey I had that stuff. But cross a little stream and you can look back with like, yeah, probably 300 to go. And I was like, I had a little bit of a gap. And that was like, literally the first time in the race that I was like, maybe he's not coming back. Right. Because if anyone doesn't know, Mo was known for his finish. Right. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, across the line. And I mean, it's one of those moments where you're just like, yeah, it's like a surreal moment, even if you know, you're kind of like, you're building up to it. And yeah, I think like, you know, it was, I think the biggest like, fan moment for me, which like, maybe I'm like overplaying this in my head and like, but like post race, you know, we like did the interviews and stuff. And like, after all the media ahead of time, where I was like, I was like the side kick. You know, we, we were both in drug testing together afterwards. And Mo was like, did you mind like signing my bib and like, exchanging shirts? And I was like, Done. Of course I'll exchange shirts. I mean, I don't really want to, but I was like, I need my bib though. I need that one. Yeah, you're like, I need that. I gotta hang on. So yeah, it was a very cool experience. And yeah, I unfortunately, the meet's not still around, but yeah, that sort of cross country, just that sort of racing and just bringing together people from the track and roads and cross country and like, you know, kind of an off distance is just, I don't know, I think it's missing in the sport. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's talk a little bit about where you're at now, because obviously cross country played a big part. Now you're in this role at Brooks, where you get to pick the things that are valuable. And Brooks stepped up for footlocker, now fleet feet Brooks cross country. Just talk about a little bit about that pivot and recognizing things in the sport that are important and just tell us a little bit about your role now. Yeah, I think when you come from the athlete side, you have a lot of perspectives on like, what can get better and what can be done different. And, you know, I certainly had a lot of those. I think I would say now that I've slipped to the corporate side, I think it's like, it's 50 50, I think there's like 50% of the things that I was like, why do we not do this? I'm like, yeah, why do we not do this? And the other 50% I'm like, I get it. I understand why we don't do this or I understand how this is maybe different behind the scenes than I initially thought. But no, it's been it's been really fun. I think, you know, one of the cool parts of what we're trying to build at Brooks is really just like the connection to athletes and it being more than just a sponsorship and putting shoes on people's feet and like, gear in for them to race in and saying like, go give us credibility in our product. It's really trying to build true partnerships. And we've got, you know, we've got an awesome team here, you know, we've got you've worked with Clara quite a bit, you know, on the roadside and, you know, Jordan Ham leads our trail team, Derek Lactoen with the beast and then Caroline Daniel with with our NL group. And, you know, I think it's like the partnerships that we're able to build with the athletes is what's really rewarding. And that, you know, that's been a really big focus of mine since coming here is like, the relationships that you can build are really meaningful in just like getting athletes to like organically want to talk about you and authentically just like, share the passion for the brand. And hopefully by just doing that, like over time, you build credibility in your brand and like, we're creating great products. I'm not worried about the product side of it. It's our shoes have been incredible for whatever we've doubled down on our speed product. As Cara has talked about, like our peril is like really growing in the last year or so here. And so it's an exciting time to be here. But I think just building those connections and the relationships is like such a foundational component of sports marketing. So anyway, I think, you know, everything else cascades off of that for me. And so like that's that's been the initial focus. And then on top of that, you can build, you can just keep building with content or whatever that is. So would you officially call what we accidentally used Mavericks as, as the road team? What do you call, what do you call our professional road athletes? Yeah, we struggled with this a lot, you know, because I think this has been a really, this has been a growing part. I think, you know, when I probably three years ago when I joined, it was like, you, and maybe that's why we called it the Mavericks, you know, because it was like, Dez just does his magic, he's doing her thing. But we've moved away from that. I think we really just call it our Brooks pros, Brooks road pros. I think we're, we're trying to, you know, right now we are thinking of each group kind of as like the road team, which is inclusive of the Hanson's group as well. Our, you know, our beast team is our track group. And then on the trail, we have a trail team, even though they live all around the world. But trying to continue to expand that bubble and say like the Brooks pros and like build connections across the groups. And I think you're seeing that more organically with you going to the trail. And so like, you're getting to the trail group. And I think like, that's been fun to see, like you and Joe interact, you know, and like, I think on the, on the trail side, it's like, Anna Gibson went to the track and she was racing the track at the Olympic trials. And now she's made the Olympics. And so like, yeah, I just think there's like a lot that we can continue to gain by like growing our community and tying some of these different disciplines and communities together. Some of our listeners, they don't, they don't know how sports marketing works or how an athlete gets signed. So like, what does Brooks or you specifically look for in an athlete? Like, what are some of the things you want to see in an athlete before you consider bringing them on the team? Yeah, I think, you know, this is a constant question and something that we talked about at length today. I think, you know, performance drives everything, I think in sports marketing, right? Like, to have credibility, you want the best people because the best people are really discerning in the product that they wear, right? And so like, that's why you can trust them. That's why it brings credibility. And in order to be the best in the world, to set world records, to like, be pushing the sport forward, you have to have that ability and you have to have the best product. And so like, getting key performances, whether it's in high school, college, pros, that's what peaks our interests. That said, like, it's not, it's not a be all end all, I think for us in particular, like, if you're building relationships and partnerships, there is that component of like, we want people whose values match with our values, and we want people that are interested in engaging with the brand in a way that we're hoping they're engaging with the brand. And so like, you know, we talk with our athlete teams about like, kind of like the three pillars that I was mentioning earlier is like, performance drives, drives everything. The second pillar is marketing, that can be your social media, that can be the way you show up for the brand that can be, you know, just the way you engage with the running community. And then, you know, there's a leadership component or teammate component. And that's like, just how do you show up as like someone in this community, in this run community? It doesn't mean you have to be the most outspoken. It doesn't mean you have to be the most boisterous or like, you know, like, it just means that you show up as your authentic self and you, you know, are excited to be a part of this. And like, you bring, you add something, whatever that is, you add you to that community. And you know, it's a net positive. So you've kind of discussed, or we've talked about cross-country meets and events that you guys add, you have the athlete component. Let's dig into the podcast a little bit. How does this make sense? Why does this make sense? How come this is in your category to create this partnership? And maybe what can people expect? Or what, what shouldn't we be doing for Brooks? Yeah, yeah. Break it down for us while we're live. Go pressure. Yeah, I mean, you know, not to give away all of our trade secrets, but you know, actually, like, I think there's no real secrets out there. I think it's really like, how do you execute? So you could tell your whole strategy or whatever. And it doesn't matter. I think like, you have to execute on it. And that's, that's the hard part. You know, for us, it's like really big in storytelling, you know, and I think storytelling is somewhat of a garbage term at this point, because everybody talks about storytelling. But I think, you know, running is just lacking in outlets in places that people go to to get their information and really like dig behind the scenes of like, what's it take to be the best in the world? What do you, what are the, like, what's behind that like wall of the athlete that you see on camera racing? You know, and I think like, there's a lot of really important reasons for like the partnership with the podcast. But I think for us, for, you know, like, I think one of the biggest things is just how you all are able to bring new fans in and how you're able to like educate the fans or like, maybe not educate, I think like you have a community of people that are just interested in knowing more about the sport. And you're so knowledgeable and like, I think it's super interesting listening to anyone who's the expert and passionate about something. And I think that's what like both of you bring is like, we are the expert. Did you hear that? You're excited. Put it on the business card. Yeah, it's like, you know, I think you're, you're the experts and you just, you follow the sport more than most. I think it's like, that blows me away still when I listen to the pod is I'm like, they're tracking the like, you know, Dez is looking through the stats down the list of like the results and tracking along and watching western states for 12 hours if she's not racing at it or whatever. And so, you know, I think it is that storytelling component of like, how do we, you know, just have Brooks be a part of like, engaging a larger community, making people more fan, like, bringing in more fans to the sport, growing the sport, I think like, sometimes running gets a little too caught up in like, how do we all grab our pieces of the pie? And I think like, if the pie grows, like, everybody's going to be better off. And of course, we're trying to win. We're trying to be the biggest chunk of that pie. But hey, we're all better off if it's growing. So yeah, I think, you know, it's been a great partnership so far. And we're excited for, you know, the next chapter. All I heard was that doesn't our expert in here. We know everything. Yeah, no, I think it's, it's been a great partnership. We're excited about the future. I think, as Kara said at the top, there's going to be more opportunities to be out in the community, live stuff, and some fun stuff that's to be announced, I suppose. Yeah, just more interaction with everybody. And it like, Brooks has done such a good job of helping us get in front of our people, right, in front of our community. And so I'm super excited. It's a, it goes through 2028. It's going to be like that. Yes. But yeah, it's been a fun day, just kind of dreaming and scheming of what we could do. All right, well, thanks, Garrett, for taking the time to chat with us today. I think it's helpful for people to wrap their minds around this. And when we say presented by Brooks, they know some of the people behind the scenes who make this happen. And get to know a little about the athletes and the product too. So that's been cool. Speaking of products, today we're bringing in a product for our top five. Yeah, we are the lever, what do you call it? The lever? Well, you know, the lever, it's a tool, right? It's a tool that goes on your treadmill. We've talked about it a lot. We love it. I use it all the time. Cole actually got into running and did a hard workout and tweaked his hammy. So he was in it for a few days. He's totally fine now. But that's the beauty of the lever, is that he could keep running for three days and not, and is still healed. So we're excited to continue with lever this year as well. But we have something really exciting, which is that there's contest time. Yeah, so we'll have the link in the show notes, but you can enter a chance to win a free lever, which is a sick deal. It is a sick deal. It's awesome. It's a great product. Again, like, how to use it, go to the website link below in the show notes. But I think it's about lifting you up, taking weight off, taking a little bit of the stress off of your body. And that's why for this top five, we're going to do some lift up moments. Yes. But so make sure you enter the giveaway. Yes. Enter someone's going to win a free lever, and the contest will be open until noon, mountain time on February 6th. Can you translate that please? Just do it at the clock Eastern. That's like in Spanish. 11 o'clock. Yeah. But so make sure you do that. I'm so bad at that. You guys, I don't, cannot even tell you how many like important meetings I have missed. Like, yeah. Translate that please. And I'm like, oh, I am so bad. So I'm like actually really proud of myself. I just crush that. Yeah. So yeah, we're going to do some lift up moments. Our top five. Do you have one? Do you want to start? You said you have one. I do. Okay. I'll start. Yeah. I think my lift up moment is going to go to Alfine Toliamuk, who had her baby recently, who she brought Desmond, she brought him to team camp. We got to see him. He's adorable. And we got to go for a couple of runs together, which is really fun. She's plugging away, getting back, and it just seemed like the perfect person to have as a lift up moment. We all watched LA St. Pierre go crush in her race. And I mean, you could see Alfine's eyes just light up. Like, yeah, that's going to be me too. So I'm excited for her. And it was good to see her. Yeah. That's a good one. I love Alfine. I'm going to just say, speaking of people who lift you up, my NBC teammates, because we had our first meet this weekend, I love being around that crew. They really make me want to be better at my job and like, push me in. Sorry. Push me not in like a negative way, but push me to like, just be better. And I feel like I work with the best people in the business. And so it was awesome to be around them and to remind myself of like, I want to keep growing with these people and be better. Right, Garrett, you're up. Lift us up, Garrett. I know you said prepare for this moment, but I literally went blank when you said that. Yeah, I think, I mean, obviously, I think the both of you being here today has been really cool. I think it's like, yes, this is an extension of a previous partnership we've already had. But I think we are thinking of like, how do we think about this differently? How do we do new things? And so, you know, it's been a fun day of just like, starting to map that out, you know, looking forward to sharing that more with like the audience as we go forward. And you both sharing that with the audience as we go forward. But yeah, I think it's like, you know, yeah, it's been really exciting having the both of you here. So thanks for flying in for a day from across the country and, you know, Phoenix. That's awesome. I actually have one too. Do it. So bring us home. No, no, this isn't bringing us home. Oh, number four. All right. It was super fun today to wake up and go in the gym and see you running. That was pretty cool. And I like out on the treadmill one way from you, but it was like cool that we were both running at the same time. You know, you were like, I don't even know how far you ran 10 miles. Yeah, I ran four. But it was just fun like going up there and seeing you there. And I was like doing my weights and you were still running. But it was cool. I figured you were doing like that. I was going to slow my face down. And it's like, no, I know she's still behind me. I can't slow down. She'd be like, she was just pressing the button up. So she would look fast. It was funny though, because I know you're stride. I know it. I'm a thousand feet away. I know it's you. And I went in there and just seeing you glad on the treadmill. I was like, dang, you are efficient woman. It's pretty cool. I think it was a glister and flex to be honest, which I had on it was moving well. I got a pair of those things are sweet. I'm going to check this out. Cool. It is funny. You can recognize someone's stride. Oh, yeah. So far away. Yeah. It's wild. Like if even if Des was running up that street over there. I would know. She'd go right away. Yeah. Like what's she doing here? That's crazy. Yeah. Get stuff. All right. I'll bring us home. I think the obvious thing is being here at HQ, the extension of the partnership with Brooks. Not just because it allows us to do this for a few more years, but because the brand is just awesome. And they're doing amazing things in the sport. And we're excited about product that they put on athletes and runners all over, but also the people that we get to work with just incredible people. We've been able to hang out with all day and get to hang out with for a couple more years as long as they'll have us. Yeah. That's awesome. Yay.