Episode #123 Featuring Dr. Jin-Xiong She! Inside the mind of a world renowned NAD+ EXPERT! Everything you need to know about NAD+!!

Alright everybody, welcome back to the Dillon Jamele podcast. So I always say this and it's a fact. I am one of the most blessed individuals on the planet because of the people that I get to speak to and learn from and the minds that I talk to that have so much wealth of information and today just sit back, get your popcorn out and get ready because you are about to have someone unload information on you on one of my favorite topics which is NAD. But he's got far more going than that and he has helped me in a variety of ways on just a few phone calls. He's got an extensive blood panel. He just ran on me that we're going to go through and he's going to fix me up a little bit but I'm going to give him a short intro. I can't really do this man justice. You're going to see right away at the brilliance and we're going to have a phenomenal conversation. So he is a PhD. He's a leading geneticist. He's a biomedical researcher and he is the founder and CEO of Genfinity Precision Medicine and I can tell you because I've been using Genfinity over a month now and we're going to talk about some of those products. This is one of the best brands that I've ever encountered and I don't say that lightly because I've been doing this 20 years. He's got over 40 years of academic research experience and right now he's focusing on aging biology and intracellular NAD metabolism. I'm going to just drain him for information today so my friends welcome my new good friend Dr. Jin Zhang. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure to be with you today. Thank you for coming to see me Dr. Jin and let me just say this. I appreciate and value the conversations that I've had with you. You've been so kind to me given me the amount of time on my own personal blood work and also the education that I desire because as you and I know I think one of the most polarizing topics and all of really health I don't want to say just biohacking is NAD. First of all I want to talk to you about how long you've been studying NAD and why, what drew you to kind of because you have such an abundant amount of research. Why NAD? I've been studying NAD in particular for the last eight years or so. So about eight years ago I just got into nang drivety and anti-aging for somewhat selfish reason. You know I'm 64 years old this year and I was like many people not getting younger and I said no this is not the right way to age and I wanted to reverse the process and do much better. The problem that we have today is yeah we are living longer but we are not living healthier and the health span was the number of years that we are free of major diseases has actually shortened in the last couple of decades even though we are living on average much longer. So the problem is we are not adopting health lifestyle. Our food supply is depleted of micronutrients. We really have to reverse this process so we can live not only longer but much much better and healthier. That's what I wanted to do for myself. I said well if I can help myself maybe one day I can help others. The society what I do is I have studied the literature many many papers that have been published and I wanted to use my expertise which is in biomarkers and I spent 40 years to discover new biomarkers and also to implement biomarker testing in a clinical setting and I have gone through thousands and thousands of potential biomarkers for longevity and I came up with 10 most important biomarkers that we really have to test but many of them were not available for patients or consumers. Guess what NAD came to the very top of the list. So why NAD? You know not about NAD your audience also knows not about NAD but that's because NAD is such an important molecule it is involved in the function of over 500 different enzymes that's how important it is. We can talk a little more about what are the most important functions. The second problem is with as we age and with as we our health deteriorates the NAD level goes down. Decined with age and with health status. Most people only know that NAD is deficient in other people but they forget that unhealthy individuals or individuals with certain health conditions are also very deficient in NAD even if they are very young as young as 2 year old 3 year old. They can be very deficient. So our demand for NAD goes up as we age but the supply of the building blocks for ourselves to make NAD actually goes down. So you have demand and supply imbalance that's why supplementing for NAD is absolutely required as we age as our health also become less healthy. So it's inevitable that NAD levels are going to decline as we age at a certain point it's just it's just going to happen no matter what. So we have tested almost 100,000 people and in adults over the age of 30 I only have two individuals who are not taking NAD supplement or any kind of NAD treatment and they have optimal levels of NAD. Wow. Two out of 10 of thousands of people. Why is it that it took all this time for people to really start understanding and talking about it because I mean I've been in the health space for 15, 20 years and I really I knew about it a little bit earlier than I think it was more mainstream but honestly not a lot. NAD is not really new. NAD has been used in clinical service for at least four decades. Really? Yeah. And NAD is actually approved drug to treat heart failure in China. Wow. Decades ago and NAD IV has been used to treat neurological conditions, addiction and Lyme disease in the United States three, four decades ago and I have worked with many of the pioneers in the field. So you had a heads up on things. So it's not new. It has become increasingly popular in the last 10 years. The reason has been I think it's partly due to COVID. If there's anything positive associated with COVID is the understanding or the acknowledgement of the importance of health by the general public. So NAD is becoming more and more recognized and popular in the last two to three years because we partly we have better solutions to I would say optimize NAD levels. You know, optimization is really the key word to me and the solutions are getting better. More importantly, we now have the methodologies to test NAD levels and I'm happy to say that I made some contribution to the field by introducing the first intracelular NAD test that can be done for patients and for consumers. We launched the first NAD test about six years ago. With the testing data, people understand better how deficient they are and they can also monitor what they are doing and isn't good with their products when they are the methodologies. I can attest because when I got the blood panel back from you and I started to read it and I've been doing blood panel analysis since 2013. So I've been doing it a pretty long time and there are several tests on there I've never seen and I'd hate to admit that but I mean I'm being honest like there was a few things in there and I was going huh and I went through and read your descriptions and then it made sense to me but I didn't I'd never even heard of them. I mean that's how good that test is and how deep it is because you know you know this I mean most doctors have their CBC and their CMP and that's it you got to go to a good functional doctor to get a full panel but that was even more intense than anything I've ever seen. So we based the functional medicine or underage medicine doctors come to Gimfinity because of the unique biomarkers that we have developed and we have biomarkers in eight major categories and that I think everyone should pay attention to. Yeah, there's micro nutrients including NAD, vitamin D, other vitamins and the oxidants and then we have micro nutrients related biomarkers you know carbohydrates and NDP panels and inflammation. Yeah. Everyone talks about inflammation but very few people know that chronic inflammation actually comes primarily from cellular senescence or zombie cells and oxidative stress. Yeah. That almost no other company has these biomarkers and then you have to worry about hormones especially the new non-givety hormone that's called colesal and it's becoming very very popular and we'll have to worry about toxins, microplastics and there are not other biomarkers that are related to organ function that many conventional laboratories can test as well. So we focused on the root causes for age-related diseases while most other testing companies focus on diagnosing the diseases. We don't focus on diagnosis of disease. We want to figure out what causes the diseases. When you treat the root causes you can have much better outcomes and you can also prevent much more severe problems years or decades in the future. And that's the beauty of it is that you're staying ahead of the curve and you're giving people a fighting chance. Yeah. And instead of waking up one day and just going holy shit what am I going to do? Because I don't subscribe to that. I want to know well ahead of time. So what you're doing is great and I'm glad you brought the cloth though. That was one of the ones when I was leaving today and I went back and looked and I said oh man I'm in the green on that one. I'm so happy. Can you tell people a little bit about what that is? Well colesal is a non-givety gene or non-givety protein. So the protein, the name for the gene comes from the Greek goddess that controls how many years you have. There are three goddess that control how many years we live. Okay, two sisters. And colesal is the youngest one. Oh my god. And she gives you a number of years that you can live and her sisters can modify it. So that's how colesal, important colesal is. But in terms of science, if you delete the gene in let's say a mouse model and mice develop a premature ageing phenotype like what we see in humans. And if you over express the colesal gene in mice, the lifespan is extended by over 30%. Wow. So we now know that not only colesal is important for aging, how many years you can live by it's also related to the function of many different organs, especially kidney function. Now 70% of patients with chronic kidney disease is deficient in colesal. Really? Yeah. And cancer patients. And about 70, 75% of cancer patients are deficient, extremely deficient in colesal. But about 10% of cancer patients are extremely high in colesal as well. So that's a very narrow window that you want your colesal level to be in. Too little obviously is not good, but too high is also not good. Okay. Moor is not always better. I always say that. Moor is not always better for almost anything. That's right. You have to find the optimum range. Well I was in the greens. You were in the greens. I have a question to go back on something that you said that I really would like to know firsthand here. You brought up that NAD was used for heart failure in China, correct? So I'm in the US as well. I'm in Canada. Okay. So what kind of effect are we talking here? Like an effect on the ejection fraction or what is it making the heart's ability to pump stronger? About one year ago, a major paper was published by the Sixth Children's Hospital in Canada Toronto. And what they have found is the number one risk factor for heart failure is the lack of energy due to NAD deficiency. Really? Yes. Many studies show that you can increase NAD levels to prevent heart failure and also to treat patients with heart failure. Because the root cause of heart failure is because the heart muscles are not able to produce enough energy. You know, any cells, all cells cannot function properly without enough energy. Right? Yeah. And your carbon run if you don't have a gas leak. Right. So without NAD, you cannot produce ATP. ATP is the energy currency for our cells. NAD is a deficiency. You cannot produce enough ATP and you have all kinds of problems. And if the heart is deficient in NAD, you may develop heart failure. I stopped the Jardins for the ejection fraction because it was having a bad reaction to it. And I had been taking this now for a month. So I go back in five months to retest. So no, I'm going to test you after the conversation. No, I mean the cardio gran is five months. So that's plenty of time for it to get worried. Yeah, I want to see. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. Okay. All right. Great. So what is the need and necessity for NAD? It's not just for the anti-aging qualities. There's a lot of other things that we're looking at that it can do, right? What? Yeah, so many potential benefits from optimizing the NAD levels. The benefits goes from A to W, not the XYZ. I cannot find anything for XYZ. Okay. I have a long list and it's pretty much anything you can imagine. So over 20 benefits then. No, way more than that. I don't remember everything, but we can go through it. The number one benefit is energy. I mean that's the number one function for it. So is that mitochondrial or? It's mostly in the mitochondria. Okay. Yeah, because 95% of the ATP is produced in the mitochondria with the help of NAD. So energy production is number one. You know about 70% of patients who go see a doctor can plant about being tired, 70%. We can fix at least 70% of people. Really? Yeah. Because most people that come to me that say they're tired, they want testosterone. They think they need testosterone replacement therapy. That's their quick fix. It's a quick fix, but you don't fix the fundamental problem. I'm not against testosterone. I mean I think when it's deficient, no doubt about it. Then everybody needs it. Everybody needs it. You do not need to get it way way too high. Some people want to get it way way too high. And the number one problem for fatigue is NAD deficiency. That's just no doubt about it. Obviously there are other issues. Of course, there are thyroid, hormone deficiencies, testosterone, and other contributing factors for sure. But the number one reason for chronic fatigue is NAD deficiency. And we can fix it so easily now. Does NAD have any effects on hormones like testosterone, estrogen or anything like that? It can improve the hormone balance, but there's no direct correlation. I didn't think so, but I wanted to make sure. So energy, what else would you say or some maybe that people aren't aware of? I'll talk about the three most important and then we'll go to the second one. I would say cognitive function is a huge one. And it provides a lot of benefit for memory, for mental clarity, brain fog, dementia, Parkinson's medication, everything in relation to brain function. That's the second category. The third category is sleep. People can have better sleep. I personally experience all these benefits, obviously. Then you may be surprised by the fact that NAD can help women with infertility issues. Really? Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that's probably a surprise. The next one is, we kind of briefly talked about before the public health. NAD can relieve energy and asthma symptoms. And my asthma, I had asthma for 20 years. I'm completely cured. Wow. And by basically two supplements, many NAD and the second one is natural and histamine. I think we have one here. So what's really important, if you want to have great benefits, NAD is fundamental, it's very important. But depending on the health issues people have, you may want to combine with one or a couple other supplements that provide a synergistic function. Wow. So on the women's side, what about menstrual cycle regulation? Does it help with that or just fertility? Menstrual cycle, I don't think it's... Okay. There's no evidence for that. Okay. But lower fertility issues, does that do it for men too or just women? For men, there's no data. I think there's actually some reports on sperm numbers and the quality. And I personally don't have any data. I was going to do a study, but it's not done yet. Too many studies. Too many studies you're able to do. Most people, I think that when they think about NAD, they think about anti-aging or they call it fountain of youth or anything like that. What effect does NAD have directly on our aging process? Does it make us age slower? Does it make us age more gracefully? Does it add more quality years to our life? What is the main benefit there? I don't think of NAD as anti-aging. You don't. Okay. No, I'm not. So that's a misconception. Not necessarily. Because I think anti-aging is too broad, too vague. And I do not want to focus on vague issues. I want to provide tangible benefits that people can feel. And I want to help people to do better now and to reverse their health condition. Look, everyone in their 50s, some people in their 40s and 30s already have plenty of suboptimal health issues. And I want to fix those. And I want them to perform much, much better. For me, I'm 64 years old. I am in many aspects. I'm doing better than my 30s. And the basic example is my tennis game. Everything else doesn't count because how do you know you are doing better? Right? But I know my tennis game is much better now than my... Everyone has some issues. Everyone has a different set of issues. I rather prefer to focus on what the benefits I can provide them now. How can I help them to manage their health conditions and reverse certain conditions? And then we can talk about prevention. Prevention is very important. But unfortunately, most people don't care about prevention. Being realistic. Okay? You know, in my view, when we talk about issues, we want the people to understand and be able to practice, not just talk about it. And we have to be realistic. We want to... Most people want to live much longer. But I don't think about how many years I want to live every day. I do think about how am I doing every day? How can I do better every day? The performance and the health span are much, much more important than how many years we are going to live. That's my view. Now, I don't think that only the necessary can extend life span. The argument about not extending life span or can extend life span is a mood point to me. I rather prefer to focus on what health benefits I can provide. By extending health span, consequently, you are going to extend life span. But we are not going to be able to measure life span at this human population anytime soon. It's not possible. It's not possible in a wide bottle to debate. That's a more academic, philosophical debate that I'm usually not interested in being part of. There's too many different moving parts with too many different people that you just could never assess. It wouldn't even be fair. It wouldn't even be worth a try. What about inflammation? Because you and I both know that that's really the core key cause of all diseases and so many people are walking around in flames. It's insane. I've seen so many panels like the HSCRP panels that are just like, whoa, okay, I see the problem. Does NAD have any effect on keeping that lower or improving it? So NAD does have major anti-infinitory properties. I think the main function is through controlling the synonyms in essence and that's a major. You tell people what cellular senescence is. Cellular senescence sometimes we call them zombie cells and cells age and they are programmed to die. But in certain unhealthy conditions, cells that are programmed to die, refuse to die. So what's the consequence? The consequence is they sit near, they cannot carry out their proper function. They are not dead, but they are not healthy either. So they just act like a zombie. That's where the zombie cell name comes from. And more importantly than being a zombie, in fact, just a zombie, fine, right? They actually secrete the not infinitory products, like infinitory cytokines. That's why it's a major contributing factor to chronic inflammation. So that's the way age. And also in individuals with health conditions including cancer and the zombie cell level is much, much higher. How do you clear those out? How do you get rid of them? This is one of the things. This is one of the products that can actually help to clear zombie cells. There are more natural ways and safer ways to do it. And there are also some pharmaceuticals that may help clear zombie cells. And I usually prefer the more natural ways. I'm not willing to go to the aggressive, unsafe treatment for zombie cells. Very often compare zombie cells and cancer cells. You don't want them. So cancer cells are growing like crazy, right? Zombie cells don't divide, they don't grow. And they don't... Both cell types don't have normal functions. And in order to cure cancer cells or zombie cells, you have a very tiny window. Because the difference between cancer cells and normal cells or zombie cells and normal cells are actually quite small in terms of response to treatment. So you have to be very careful. Only care the cells you don't want, but don't damage the cell. They do not want to die. And using it is easy to do. Actually it's very, very difficult. Look at how many scientists we have worldwide working on cancer for how long? Tens of thousands of scientists working on the problem for decades and decades. We still don't have the perfect solution. We have just started working on zombie cells in the last 5, 10 years. And it's still a very small number of scientists that are involved in the field. And we are going to get better. The good news is we actually have some pretty safe and good ways to reduce the zombie cell burden. Is there a way to test for zombie cells or senescent cells? Yeah, we do. And we have your tester here. And Jimfinity is the only company that can test senescence level system-wide. I want to shift gears here a little bit now because you and I have talked about this and I've talked about it at a pretty good length because I get pretty upset with the way people get misled and taken advantage of. I've been around supplements for... I really started to study supplements pretty hardcore in like 2012 because I was going to Mr. Olympia events and I was around. That's where I was around. And I quickly learned how messed up like the whole... I call it the whole game because it is a game really. I mean, if you think about it, it's a game. It's a cat and mouse game. It's who's got the most money who can market the best. And oftentimes... And I hate to say this because I wish it wasn't this way, but there's a lot of misleading information, which then tricks people into thinking something that's just not true. And I've kind of found that when something gets really popular that we know it helps, that people take advantage of people. And so I think it's important with you as an expert to kind of give an understanding of NAD, how it actually works. And I'm talking like precursors and explaining what that means. And I would really like you to talk about this regular taking regular NAD versus a precursor. And then also one of the big questions that I always get is about IVs and injections. And I'd really like you to cover that and explain how efficient those are or not. Yeah. Well, I will cover that, but I want to respond to what you said. And because I think it's very important to me. Please. The main conception is supplement don't work. Yeah. And I agree. I totally agree. Subliminal on the market by the notch don't work. And it's a waste of money. As it relates to NAD or angiosid. Just NAD. No, just NAD. You're going to get people nightmare, doctor. No, I am. But I'm going to give you a solution. Okay. I'll tell you why most subliminal on the market don't work. Please. The first reason is you don't know what you need to take if you don't test. And you really have to find out what you are deficient in. Taking a supplement to correct your problem that doesn't exist is not going to give you any benefit. That's the first reason. The second reason is obviously quantitative ingredients, the formulation, all these are very important. It's much difficult thing for people to judge. The third point is the dosing recommended by the vendors is a way, way, way, way off. Many people say, you know, my doctor told me NAD. My doctor told me that I'm an educated of doctors. I made thousands of doctors. I'm not a medical doctor myself, but I educated doctors. And doctors don't know anything about nutrition or supplements. And they are always against the supplements. Rightly so or wrongly so, as in both. Rightly so because most of the supplements on the market don't work. And wrongly so because supplements actually can work very well if you do it right. The way to do it right is find out what you need, supplement for what you are deficient in. That's the first one. Second one is pick the right product. That's easy to set and then down. But there are ways to do it. But most importantly, you really have to find out the optimum dosing for each individual. How much you need may be totally different from how much I need or another person needs. If you don't use the right dosing, in most cases, you are not taking enough, you get no benefit. In occasional need, you are taking way too much biohackers. If there are biohackers around, be careful. I test so many biohackers. So many of you are actually harming yourself, more than helping yourself. I look like I'm an anamnist. It's very important. I see so many people, so many biohackers with kidney optimal function. Too much. Too much. The way way too much. If you are taking 30, 40, 50 supplements without knowing what you need and then or not. I think you may want to take some tests, figure out what you need, figure out what the supplement is actually working for you or not. That's usually my first recommendation when people come to me for advice. Find out what you need, do it properly. These are the reasons why supplements don't work. But we can make them work very well. We know how to get them to work. Now I'm going to come to your question. It's very related. Talk about five points. I don't want to dominate the conversation. I don't know. I want to be systematic so we can cover it. The first one is NED can deliver incredible benefits with what it covers the NED point. But you can only get these incredible benefits when your NED level is optimized. You cannot just randomly take the NED product and hope for what the benefits that are possible. Optimization is the second point. To be optimized, we have done extensive studies. We know we define the optimum range for NED between 40 and 100 micro mona. I can tell you why. The first piece of data we have is 75% of teenagers have NED levels above 40 micro mona. And that's not enough. That's one piece of data. The second piece of data that's more important is when we get NED levels above 40, people start experiencing noticeable benefits. If it's still lower than 40, some people may experience some benefits but not if you notice a difference. I know your NED level is probably going to be in the 50s and 60s. Or if I can get your NED levels to the 50s and 60s and no more like me, you are going to experience some benefits. So based on at what level you start experiencing benefits from NED products. Now if you have been taking NED products for years and years, you don't notice any difference. It's probably not working. Get a test done, you will find out. So that's the second point. It has to be optimized to get a benefit. The third point I want to make is the only way to optimize NED level is through testing because I cannot predict as much study I have done. I cannot predict how much each person needs to take to get NED optimized. And I have some idea, population average, but when it comes down to one specific person, I do not know and here I test them after the treatment, supplementation or some other protocols. So that's the third point. The fourth point that most people don't know is if you get NED optimized, every other protocol that you do can function more effectively. So NED is a requirement, it's a cornerstone in my view for all health optimization programs and I will have another data. The final point is if you really want to get a benefit from NED, you have to be what do we call a PNC. What's a PNC? Consistent and consistent. I like it. If you are not consistent, it's very hard to get a benefit or maintain the NED levels at optimum range. We know if you stop taking the product, your NED level goes down by about 5% every day. That quickly. Not quickly. So by 3-4 weeks, you have gone back to base night. Wow. So that's like a lifelong thing. It's a lifelong thing. This is a question that I get all the time. Should I take it every day? Should I take it for the rest of my life? Think about it. This is just micro nutrient. It's like a food. You may want to have intermittent fasting and maybe healthful but if you don't eat for a few days, you're not going to survive. So it's safe to take every day for however you want. I've been taking it for five years. Some people have been taking it for decades. It's a product. It's a compound that's in our body. It's a part of our body. You don't have enough when we age and as our health deteriorates. It's not a foreign compound. It's a part of our body. That's why it's safe in the long term. And so these are the five major points that we shouldn't remember specifically for NED but for all other supplements in general. How quickly it can drop. That's one of those ones I wasn't fully aware of that it can drop that fast. So you could spend months building it and just that quickly gone. Yeah. Wow. If you're listening and you're taking it and you see good levels, don't think that that's a ticket to stop because it's not because you're going to be disappointed if you retest in a month because you're probably going to be back to where you were. It's not a drug. It's why not treating these symptoms. Why treating, why correcting the root problem. The good thing is as we know how to correct it, the bad thing is that you just better stay on it. Right? I mean just stay consistent but consistency is everything that we do in life and you're not consistent. You know consistency and persistence. Yeah. I mean these are the most difficult thing to do for everyone including me. I'm not going to tell people that I'm perfect. No. But you mean? With my only disappointment, I almost never, never forget unless at one time I forgot to take a product with me and I didn't take it for a couple of days. Otherwise for the last five years, I never forget. Well I'm not going to forget that chewable you gave because it tastes so damn good and I don't ever get any treats so that's like a little treat to me so I'll never forget that. I can promise you as long as my wife stops stealing it, I'll have plenty. We'll get into that too because I want to talk about that but would you talk about the precursor so that would be like NMN and NR and why you need to take those as opposed to just taking NAD? There are so many different ways, so many different products on the market. Most people get confused. I'll try to help you and the audience to classify the different ways. The first one is you have different products that can be used. We have the NAD molecule and then we have what's called the NAD precursor. Adjust the smaller chemicals that ourselves can use to build the NAD molecule and there are a number of them. NMN, it takes only one step to make NAD from NMN, NR, nicotine amide and riboside. It takes two steps to make NAD and now you also have nicotine amide and that can be converted into NAD and you have niacin or nicotinic acid and that can be used as a precursor. Triple Diffen is how our body makes most of the NAD we need without supplementing with other supplements. Triple Diffen is pretty abundant in our food but it's not efficient and it can be also used to make some other molecules in the next competition. It's not a very effective one. Some of the testosterone was just we used to formulate with have tryptophan. These are the few building blocks or precursors that can be used. The second is how you deliver these various compounds. You can deliver through the IV. So now NAD IV infusion of the NAD molecule has been used for four decades. Five years ago there were studies done on NMN IV in Japan and now one company I'm not going to see the name is promoting NR infusion. Really? Yeah. So IV infusion and then there's subcutaneous injection only the NAD plus molecule has been tried so far. I don't think anyone is injecting NMN or NMN. At least I'm not aware of it. So now patches people try to deliver the NAD molecule with patches. There's a suppository. Yes. I'm going to pass on that. You're going to pass on that one. And there's NATO spring. Yeah. That's mostly NAD molecule. And this was mostly for supplements. All supplements based on NAD, NMN, NR, nicotinamide, and so on. I'll try to summarize the what do we know. Please. IV infusion of anything NMN, NR or NAD does not increase intracerone NAD at all. Nothing. Zero. Nothing. Really? It does not. I feel so good after I took a NAD IV injection. I feel so great. I can't believe it. Why do they do that? There are certain number of people who experience benefits. I don't deny that. And they are equal number of people who say they feel nothing. Or they have not have said effects. And let's focus on the people who may experience some benefits or a lot of benefits. And there are a few reasons. The first one is if you infuse anything, just a sign in, you are going to feel better. Let me put it in this way. So they are receptors on the oral cells and the immune cells for the NAD molecule. So even though it does not increase the intracerone NAD, the binding of the NAD to the receptors can potentially provide some benefits. Okay. That's the possibility. And also the problem with NAD infusion is the molecule has a very short half-life, six hours. So after in one day, 24 hours, you have half the amount of four times. If you do the mess, and almost Americans don't do the mess very well. So that's the truth. No. Big the truth. I speak the truth. I make a lot of enemies. It's okay. But it's the truth. After four cycles of half-life, you have only about 5% left in the blood. The bottom line is it degrades very quickly in the blood. Okay. So it's a good reaction that goes away. It's a good reaction goes away. And then metabolize, this may have some biological functions as well. The problem is it's very short lived if you are getting a benefit. And if you have neurological conditions, NAD IV may help. Not saying NAD IV is completely useless. What I'm trying to tell people very clearly is if you want longevity purposes, you have if you want performance, you must get the intracelular NAD up. Because 90% of the function for NAD is through intracelular NAD, not the extracellular NAD that can provide some benefits. If you don't get your intracelular NAD up, you are not getting all the benefits from NAD. You are missing big time. Well, you're defeating the purpose if you're not going for the long-term goal. You're just getting a short-term quick fix that's going to dissipate and go away. And then you're going to be right back to square one. If you really want to optimize NAD intracelular NAD through IV, you have to inject everything. I was going to just say that. If NAD is like every single day, if the half-life is that short, then you have no choice. Like with testosterone, because I studied for years testosterone esters and how to efficiently keep levels baseline so you're not peaking and troughing all the time. And if you don't have the right amount of injection time, like on testosterone, it's a seven to eight day half-life and people want to inject once a week. But then if they inject Monday by the following Monday, you went... Yeah, you don't want that. With many biological molecules, you don't want to just psych Abla and Dan. That's not the way... It's not good internally, but it's not good mentally either because you're just all over the place. And then you wonder why your thoughts are all over and you feel like shit half the time. Because you're lacking what you've got this great deal of injection on the top and then it's gone. So everything that you felt great on, you're having just an equal deficit and you feel terrible. People don't think that way. It's like, oh, I feel so good right now. Yeah. I'm fortunate that many people go for the very short term hosting kind of a field and then you gotta think. That's not the right way for non-divority. No. So NMN is the best... This is what I've always been told to understand by everybody that's an expert in the NAD field is that NMN was the best pathway to get into ourselves to then let us to release NAD levels and to actually get them going in the right direction. Yeah. I'm going to be very balanced. The fact... So the best NAD precursors are NMN and NR. Both can increase NAD levels very efficiently. I personally prefer NMN a little better for two reasons. The first one is to convert NR into NAD, you need two enzymes, two steps. You have to make NR to NMN and then you make it into NAD. And the individuals who are deficient in the enzyme that converts NR to NMN is called NR kinase. If NR kinase or NRK is deficient, you are not going to be able to use NR deficient. But it's not a huge number of people, it's a small number of people. The second reason is both NR and NMN, any kind of compound, do have their own biological functions. NMN seems to provide more biological functions than NR. So from a functional point of view, a beneficial point of view, NMN seems to be better than NR. So that's the pure precursors. What we have found, why the true results we have and what's the powder that we make are so much better. I'll give you the data first. So the NR and NMN that's on the market, increase NMN levels on average for about 40, 50 percent as published by many companies and we have data as well. But with the formulation that we have with four different ingredients that can work synergistically and we provide three different ways for ourselves to make NAD, we increase the NAD levels by 116 percent with the powder and over 150 percent with the chewable. My favorite. Actually, what's really interesting is after we introduce the chewable, we are getting more and more people whose NMN levels are way too high. Really? We have to turn them to cut it down to dosing. Wow. Well, that's good to know. No, that's why testing is important because you can overdo it. Yeah. No, and the whole thing with the NR is like, why add the extra step if you don't have to? That's the way I see it. I know it's effective because I've seen people use it and feel great and have good blood panels, but why add the extra step? There's no reason. I mean, it's for commercial purposes and also NR has been on the market much longer than NMN. So NR was introduced to the market about 10 years ago, a little over 10 years now. NMN is more recent. It's the last seven, eight years. What would you say is a good dose daily of NMN and is it different for men and women or is it just the same? If you don't want to get the testing, take 1000 milligrams of NMN. 1000? Yeah. So if you take 1000 milligrams of pure NMN, you have a 50% of chance to get your NMN optimized. If you take 1000 of NMN in our formula, you have a 70% of chance to get your NMN optimized. You have only optimized. If you take the chewable 1000 milligrams of NMN, you have a 70, you have a probably 85, even 90% chance to get your only the optimized. Okay. So I get to eat two chewables a day. Zero. Zero. I've been eating one. No. One is probably not enough for 90% of the population. Okay. Well, good. That I can have too. You can take more. Does it matter if you take it a day or night? It does not really matter. It depends on my recommendation is I take the first one after lunch because usually in the afternoon, most people have less energy. You want to boost. Okay. Let me give a very simple suggestion. When you feel that you need a coffee, go take your chewable instead of a coffee. And can you split those or do you need to take it all at once? You can split them. I just want to treat twice a day. So no, take two. You take two tablets. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Can I take one in the morning? No, I actually recommend you split it. Split it. Okay. Whenever you feel you need a boost, take one. Okay. Will they interfere with your sleep? No. Okay. I'll take it back. So for most people, it actually helps them to sleep better, including me. Okay. But for a small number of individuals, they said they have so much energy, they actually cannot sleep. Okay. So test it out. In those cases, take it early in the morning. Okay. And I take one dose before I go to bed. Okay. It helps me to sleep a bit. I'm going to test it out. Test it out? Yeah. Okay. Well, man, we've already gone over an hour. I can't believe it. That was tremendous. We're probably going to have to do another one because I think there's a lot of stuff we didn't get to cover today. We can sit here and talk for days. Oh, yeah. I've got countless things in my head I want to talk about. And I just looked up and I was like, uh-oh. What happens? That just goes to show, though. I mean, how much knowledge base you have and, you know. Let's just give people one thing. If you want to know everything about NAD, I actually have the book. Yeah. And many questions will be answered in this book. The good thing about that book is it's very detailed, but it's very easy to understand at the same time. So the science is in there, but the explanations, it's anybody can read it and understand it and get a good feel for a lot of basic questions that you need and then some things that you would never have been aware of. I want you to make it a little more philosophical than science. You guys have detailed advice. Yeah. It's more philosophical. Yeah. I think it's for everybody. I think that everybody should read it once, get a good understanding and then take a couple, re-look at it. You know, because there's things in there that you might not pick up on that you want to keep re-learning. I always read stuff over and over because you need to just refresh your mind. So the company is Ginfinity and I can tell you because when I let somebody come on here and show products, I have to try them and use them first. I don't just let anybody come on here and start showing stuff. I use their turmeric, their creatine, and of course, my favorite in the world, the chewables, but you do have other forms of, you have a powder form. Yeah. And this is NMN, but the thing I'm going to point one thing out here that I love too is on this one, because you also have creatine deribos and niacinamide in this, it makes it even stronger. And that's what I love about this because I personally need deribos that I take for my heart anyway. So the formula on this is tremendous and all of your products are formulated so well, tested well, and they can also get testing kits at Ginfinity, right? You're testing. Yeah, we'll have two different tests. If you're only interested in the NED, that's a test to get. It's a finger prick, very easy to do. And then we'll have the Natchi panel, we'll have 50 different biomarkers in the cover seal, some missiles, clothes, oxidative stress, NED and everything. And that's what we call the ultimate Natchi VT biomarker panel. I had that done. We'll go through that next time and go over my results. And we'll also update my NED test and share that after using this for a month and then after using it for a few months because I got to up the dose. You got to up the dose, but we'll get you tested to see what the, whatever you are at with one tablet. Okay. So this way, you know, you see how this is really science. We do it in a very scientific way. Perfect. No, you know, no guess. I love it. I love how thorough. I love the insight and I love more than anything, the dedication to everybody and doing work that's really helping people and opening up their eyes to see and understand how this really works. So your work is greatly appreciated. Your friendship is appreciated by me. I'm happy to get you on here to really spotlight this and get a better understanding for everybody. So I appreciate you coming out to see me and I'll look forward to carrying on some more conversations with you. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed our conversation. Awesome, man. Well, I'll link to infinity in the description for everybody to go visit the site, get your tasks, get your products and stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jamele, signing off.