You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems

George came over here with a quick PSA before the call start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need to plan that works. So take what you learned today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.! Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one best selling author and host of the Runaway Hit on Ramsey Network. The Dr. John Deloney Show, he is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi Cody, how are you? You know Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well guys, I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here so I do apologize, but my wife and I have just recently found out that her parents are asking my wife's sisters that are under 18 for money for basic bills. We don't really know. I've heard in the past you guys say like don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance. We're just kind of stuck because my sister-in-law is our 10, 12 and then 17. So I'm just kind of confused on what to do. How much money do they have? Well, so the younger sister-in-law they were working over the summer. So basically what happened was my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that well mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah, blah, blah. So I offered them my $400 that I got from dogs sitting and they took it for groceries. And then our or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote unquote borrowed $1,000 from her for bills for last month to cover. Is this true? Are they struggling that bad? I would say so yes. It's been talked about a couple months ago. My wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. My father-in-law owns his own business and it's been I know it's been struggling quite a while. So I want to put things in order. You hear a sale all the time. You can't help family unless they come ask you but before that I'm always going to protect kids. Of course. And if you got a 10-year-old that's coming to you saying dad is saying I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money. Then I would personally I would insert myself into that situation. Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because you know it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that you know they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else that for themselves. A lot of this is self-caused just based off their career choices that they've had. So it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard my wife to have respect as well. How long have you been worried? It'll be two years in February. Okay. I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife called not you. But okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I think she yeah because here's the thing if the two of you go over there at two years into this and insert yourself in this situation you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years. Of course. Yep. It's not simply the situation. Yes. What you're describing is a hundred percent disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. And if they were abusing the children physically we would just turn them over to children services. Right. Yeah. That's not happening. It'd be that simple because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially. And so I think but I don't think your wife your wife's what 20 something years old. Yeah. She's 23. Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says you all need to stop this you all need to become responsible adults. My guess is that it's not a zero percent chance that that's going to have any impact. 110 percent. And if you show up saying I don't respect you guys they're going to take it together house. That's not going to help you there. Yeah. That's a 40 year that's a 40 year long discussion. I'm trying to think what in other words what will work is more what I'm thinking. Well what what Dave tell me if I'm wrong. So my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying can we talk and she's got to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10 year old right. Yeah. But we just. And my sorry go ahead. In my idea at first was like you know my wife I told her I was like what if you like take your mom out the coffee and be like you know mom we've heard some of this stuff from you know my sister's like how bad is it. Is it really is that really happening. That's it. I don't really that bad. Yeah. And is there is there ways we can help or is there a way we can support you or is there education they may say absolutely not. And then it's about giving your your niece or your sister-in-law if you will a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else but that's just going to she's going to have a few years of mom and dad borrowing money. Exactly exactly and you know that's our fear because you know they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong. Yeah but did you do you do you do you're 25 you're 24 I would stay out of that for right now. Yeah that's not that's not okay. That's actually not true either it's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life but it's not an on-ramp they can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. Yeah. And then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life okay so and those kids have got the same thing they're not being physically abused. Yeah so let me refer when I say insert myself I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeve of the shirt and go bang on the door. I think I think your wife taking mom out for coffee taking dad out and saying hey we just happened to hear this I'm worried about y'all how I'm worried about my sisters. Yeah. How bad is it? Definitely. And then y'all you have a hard conversation about could you help will you help? All that because the next question is going to be well can we have $500 and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. No go ahead now I'll give you the answer to that no. You're right because they're saying they're $10,000 short. Oh month. So I'm not throwing good money after bad. So exactly. We only give Ramses only give into situations where we create a sustainable story. We don't throw money at something $5 at something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it and so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with the Ramsey coach and the Ramsey coach boxes are ears and says you have to sell the three cars you guys you cannot afford each stupid cars you can't afford to live in that house. Oh maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business it loses money it's called a hobby and so no we're going to have you know these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short the $1,000 from the 17 year old or the $400 from the 10 year old doesn't fix it. Nor does $500 from you fix it so don't do that but do say I'll cheer you on I'll help you do a budget I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this you've struggled with this your whole life I've watched you I'm your daughter and you know I'd love for you to be free from these demons and you and I have talked about this before on the air but parents don't like hearing money advice so she sits down and says you all need to start that's not going to go well but that idea of sitting down saying hey I'm worried about you how bad is it you're all okay um we are and then tell them your story that's a different avenue yeah we are on a budget it's giving us great peace we have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our income in line with our out go and it's given us great peace and if I could ever help you get with our coach we'll show you how to do that that kind of thing hey guys it's George camel and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season shop Aldi first Aldi has everything you need for holiday get together I'm talking charcootery boards holiday sides desserts without the large price tags you'll get fresh high quality while keeping your budget off the naughty list because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store it's true families are saving up to four thousand dollars a year just by making Aldi their go-to which means more money for stocking stuffers so find a store near you at Aldi.us that's aldi.us savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors prices may vary by location product availability and the market. Dr. John Delone Grimsey personality is my co-host and is with us in New Orleans hi Ann how are you hello I'm fine thank you so much for taking my call our honor how can we go okay my question is my husband and I my ex-husband not were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004 and since that time he is on a my son is unable to pay his mortgage because he's unemployed he lost his job and now now we pay he purchased the condo in 2004 this past April he lost his job and since and he's been unable to pay the mortgage how many times did you pay it since 2004 oh it's happened before about ten years ago he ran into travel paying his mortgage and he was able to do a full balance and of course I assisted financially at that time and you keep using the word unable is he unable or is he unwilling now why do you not have a job in the world of paraplegia he is unable no no he's physically capable okay he has not and he has not found a job since April he says he's looking what the hottest he can't bond a job on hottest hiring markets in human history he's chosen not to work I guess so okay let's use I just want to be I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions right now yeah understand you're still on the mortgage yes my ex-husband and I are co-signer so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not and he's not been paid yes so I have been paying it since April my ex-husband made about three of the mortgage payments so now I want to know what would be the best avenue for me to convince my son to sell it let it go for for closure and I told him or else you get a job and you pick up the payment but I don't want it to go to for closure because I don't want it to affect my credit I haven't my credit rating is 820 every time it's paid related to picture credit yes I understand so I just don't know if there's any options for me is he on the note at all yeah is he on the note he's my son is the owner of it yeah he's on the note she's the co-signer yeah you know you can't force him to sell you can just talk him into selling will he sell it if you tell him to no he's dragging his feet about that yeah no kid well he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay for 20 years you build them out yes I understand that and you've probably given us some stern talking to's over the last 20 years and yes I have you still paid it so yeah he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to I think you have to sit on it said I'm not paying this rent I Dave all leave it to you I mean it's going to just going to ruin your your yeah you're you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed yeah that's how this works so can you afford to buy him out I could but I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy if I if he would tell me the condo then it's mine right for me to do what I want with it exactly and then you just sell it then he you sell it and right right so it can get your money back out and at least that way you didn't lose anything yeah you could just say all right let's give the praise I'm going to buy it for him you and then you put it on the market and sell it that's what's best for you that is unbelievably aggravating and it's not necessarily what's best for him what's best for him is to experience some pain but but he's not going to in this scenario unless you do that's the problem with co-signing you get to experience the pain with him and he's going to play chicken with you and you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially right yes I do yeah and what's the condo worth maybe about 40,000 worth 45 no I would well in that he would be he would be lucky if he could get 64 oh my god what are you oh on it 30 okay and he's got 11 more years okay go go tell him that you know he can no longer screw up your life with his laziness he needs to sell you this condo even if you buy it for whatever have a real estate agent give you an appraisal buy it for that amount put it back on the market and resell it and he needs to move okay yeah that protects you I'm for some reason I thought this was a 600,000 dollar condo it's a 60 yeah yeah just you can you you're you may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this gyration around but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in and the trap is co-signing you can't get out of the trap you're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay and then he's going to get foreclosed on which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you and then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'all because that condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it but it's a piece of crap condo to start with and and and will you forgive yourself for the divorce finally yeah yes you're still trying to make that right with him stop 20 years yes you're gonna lose you're gonna lose some money but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son's not worth it yeah I would I would buy it from him have him move out and turn around put it right back on the market and sell it and if you lose a little bit that way that gets you out of this trap and then you have a standalone relationship with your son that's mother's son that is no longer co-signer because co-signer is putting a strain on everything it's making you do things you're not you don't feel good about and it makes you resent your son every time that phone rings you you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask like it's altered your relationship what's he going to ask for now yeah or this time because you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy not working since April my god how much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks I mean you can you can do like do Uber one day a month and pull this off this is about the laziest human I've run into uh it's pretty rough I mean really yeah think about this just I mean it's not like it's a lot of money hey I don't even know how the boys eating all we all do and yeah and take making sure he's got groceries yeah so and you gotta stop it it's time you put him on to put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance uh the done include your checkbook for the rest of his life and that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself and moms and dads out there never ever co-sign it's not an active love it's not it's it's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of self preservation you have to cover this stupidity of the other party what about this Dave I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong is there a moment when and again I know I'm speaking in ratios here but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money can she buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk in dust her hands off walk away is that too much enabling I wouldn't do that yeah I think I think it's I think he's not gonna move is what I think he's not gonna sell it to his mom yeah well then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on you would I just stop okay you either gonna sell it to me or uh the days of me giving you money or done they're over and that's what I'm getting either you're either you're gonna either you're gonna sell this to me or you're gonna have to figure it out okay I'm done okay because that's this is so bad for him yeah she's stunning his emotional growth I mean he's six years freaking old yeah you can't I can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks this is lame yeah this is really a lame boy especially we talked to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do yeah right yeah tough man tough so enough clothing out of his closet plasma assignments they all get plasma your way to that one it's just it's just not any money so yeah you got it you got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man and it's gonna cost you that precious 820 that you really you're really proud of it's gonna cost you who cares about that let that stupid thing go oh my gosh yeah condo's never been late he paid her own time every time it's never been late it wouldn't be 820 this is the Ramsey show running a business is already complicated you don't have time to become a health insurance expert too and when you're self-employed there's no HR department to lean on but that's where my friends at health trust financial come in for over 20 years they've been helping families and small business owners cut through the confusion and find the right health insurance plan for their stage of life and budget health trust financial offers unbiased advice and there's never any pressure health trust financial helps you shop smarter and avoid overspending most of their clients save hundreds of dollars every month real savings you can put back into your business or toward building wealth I've worked with them for over two decades and they're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance advisors so get clear on your options and talk to a real person who can help you make confident decisions about your health coverage go to healthtrustfinancial.com today that's healthtrustfinancial.com Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today Judy is in Los Angeles hi Judy welcome to the Ramsey show hi I am a long time listener and first time caller okay I'm on baby step six and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to co-sign for someone correct I'm in the situation what I do want to co-sign for somebody under certain circumstance so my my husband's cousin source cousin she's been on section eight anyway she lost that now she's in her 60s she needs to get an apartment there's a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her and in order for her to get into an apartment she needs to have someone co-sign or her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and I was wondering warning warning warning why would her brother okay who loves her more than you do he's her brother for god's sakes not want to co-sign he's he doesn't love her oh yeah he doesn't mind if she goes home yes no that's true I don't believe it totally true it's from a very dysfunctional family he's not willing is why he's telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to there is more to the story than you are telling or believing well she's she has a problem she has personality that's right now she's in her 60s never worked in her life she's in section eight she lost that who is the who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust our brother so we we have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds right so what I'm gonna ask if it's okay if that works if you agree that's just a you know right thing for me to do no it's not I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I will transfer that to her monthly is that okay funding is available for a whole year is it paid for me to cosine I know what does she trashes the place she she won't trash the place but she might you know um no she's not like that but she will she might have trouble with neighbors that's the only that's kind of problem she has or gets kicked out or there's four has four people over or get sweet talking to people over she'll just like she loves cats she'll probably you know take care break all the rules yeah rules don't apply to her rules don't apply to her yeah and Judy we're yeah we're gonna tell you know if if this money's available then she can get the apartment under her name you can write the checks every month for her if she can't do that that's fine but you don't need to come down but how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available well you would have to have the money available yeah print off a statement yeah and I show do I show them what do I do because we're in California there's a lot of these places and I don't live the same town as she does so it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to somewhere you know well you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say this is what's going on she has a special needs trust brother's gonna send you documentation he's going to end the documentation send it to the property manager and say we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months that's fine too yeah but you don't cosine and they're gonna try to get you to cosine because you have a blind spot here kiddo this this lady has is she's gotten a hold of your heart and she's sweet and she does need someone to help her but we need to define help very carefully help involves her behaving and you're not willing to make that requirement nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior right you're gonna get screwed if you do this please don't do it okay it's gonna go up a flames okay so I told you apartment that I have money but I need to show some proof right to the trust yeah brother's gonna have to send documentation yeah and by the way you don't have this money Judy you stuff to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her doesn't care about her doesn't care if she ends up on the street right so all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality and let me help you with this okay it's not that he doesn't love her it's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him and he's done being burned so he's putting up a boundary that's different than not loving and you got you're calling it not love in a dysfunctional family I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her you can't put that on him I'm not gonna let you do it yeah I don't even know him and I'm not gonna let he's not the jerk in this story okay and there's not a jerk in this story there's a sad lady with mental illness and you're gonna get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents yeah I don't sign just I don't know an apartment complex it won't take your check if if you got it so if they won't take your money so she can get her own place listen I'm a landlord if I know what's going on here I'm not putting her in there that's fair it's fair because pre-paying the rent ain't half my problem it's the 93 cats that end up in my building right or all the neighbors or whatever or she burns the neighbors cat live in the front yard I don't know what's gonna happen here I don't know I don't know what's going on with her I know I don't want her to tenant under any circumstances co-signer prepaid double paid no thank you yeah life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord so that's what you're gonna that's what you're gonna face on more than anything else so you're please honey don't don't confuse this and you you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really um not heave an unwise way that was that was kind yeah that's best way to say it and I think this is a bigger conversation Dave when you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it all of this phone call could have been already headed off you could have already sat down with your brother could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know okay here's the final step here you probably would have found out a long time ago you either don't need to do it be a co-signer or there nobody's gonna let her live there you have to come up with another option right but it's always like well then I might do this and then after that I'm gonna do you don't even know if all this is is gonna happen you're so spun up about it just go find out I find out I co-sign for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it one poor guy co-sign for me I went bankrupt he ended up paying it I had to go back and pay him later his wife still don't like me yeah 35 years later so it's okay it's valid I mean I she got screwed yeah they didn't ultimately get but I mean she thought she did and so I get it I completely get it proverb 1718 says in the scripture one lacking in sense co-signs for another when I co-signed Judy I was lacking in sense if you co-sign this the Bible says you're lacking in sense I didn't say I get mad at God don't do it I wasn't that was that was pretty good I mean you kind of brought the Bible out so there you go brought the Bible yeah that's the final right that's the final one that's the one open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five Kim is in New York hi Kim how are you hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up so I wanted to know how to save money for mortgage on payment while you're paying the right very hard it is yeah are you how much debt have you got I can go through the numbers and I can tell you how much debt have you got just give me the total I want to save about 40,000 how much of that's your car well came out of this together it's about he owes I owe 16 and he owes about 20 okay how much is the car my car total with the insurance insurance which is the car no the debt on the car how much debt is on the car about 16 okay of your 40 or of your yeah of your 40 so half of it yeah okay so here's the simple answer but it's not a simple answer is when you don't have any debt payments you'll have more room in your budget so before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house let's clear the debt off that may mean selling a car it may mean taking an extra job it will mean not eating out it will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt because if you didn't have any payments oh you'd have money to save for your down payment that's where it comes from your most powerful wealth building tool is your income don't give it to somebody else and then you'll have it to save for a down payment simple but hard this is the Ramsey show the holidays are supposed to be joyful but they can also be expensive between gifts travel and about a thousand limited time offers your budget can start feeling anything but marry and that's why I love this boost mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet right now you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk text forever no price hikes no contracts no nonsense just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high so stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead go to boost mobile dot com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today that's boost mobile dot com slash Ramsey restrictions apply see boost mobile dot com slash Ramsey for details you thanks for joining us america we're glad you're here open phones that triplate 8255 225 patrickson fortworth hi patrick how are you i'm doing good Dave good how can i help hey i've got a question i've got a question i've got a patent pending on a mobile application and i'm wanting to raise funds to get my nvp off the ground right um and i've i've had a friend of mine in and then offered to give me a loan to do this but i've been listening to you since i was 12 years old um lost everything last year in a divorce literally everything um and i'm wanting to go back up but i don't want to give up my entire my entire percentage of my company and getting with a traditional investor and i really don't have access to traditional investors so i'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowd fund with a patent pending also so i'm just kind of curious what you might have on that okay um so remind me again the what the patent is on okay it's on a mobile application a mobile application like a phone application like a an app for your phone and why do you have to have a patent for a phone app well it's just it's just something new that is uh well i mean it's i mean you're gonna put it in the Apple store and you're gonna put it in the google play store and people are going to download it onto their phone right right so there's just a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before i mean i don't need a patent for that is it a copyright you don't need a patent for that no no he told me i couldn't cover it but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app they couldn't make a they couldn't make another um you know uh because there you can i've started the process to patent a process in the app it's like okay show like all right and stop okay so how much are you spending to get the patent pending so that's already i've already paid that okay so you're done okay so you've got it so why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store it doesn't cost anything well well the in order to get the in order to get the um the actual application built the mvp the minimum rival products and and build that oh you've not built the app yet no i your pat depending the idea or the technology no the technology is not done it's not okay are you not a programmer you're not an engineer i'm not no no i i've been a month since i was 16 years old i bought my first business at 24 i bought and sold several different businesses i mean i've i've but i lost everything last year and i'm just starting over okay so all you need is the engineering done right you need you need a software engineer right well so what's it going to cost to to to turn this into the idea into an app uh the the lowest quote i've got is around 24 that 24 to the 35 thousand dollars okay you know we've built a bunch of apps here we've got apps all in the store i mean i've put them up taking them down i've uh we've got a little thing called the every dollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in obviously but we've also got you know tens of means people in it and all that um but even out of the gate we had more than that in it so um i'm just trying to think how we would do it because i don't borrow money and i don't bring in outside investors you know that you said you've been listening i don't i don't want to give up i don't want to do it i don't know what i would do i mean he'd have been told he could get it to get it to get 5% no no no no no no what part i know you you've been listening to us you know i was going to tell you not to go any of this what's what's your panic like what's the you feel panic are you about to get beat to market or something if you hold a patent can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks well the thing is is yes i have probably eight to nine months left of the of the statistic my lawyer he wants to do he wants to do a non-provisional which is potentially 20 years protected right um my uncle was an engineer not in mobile stuff but like he that's how he made his money he invented like one of the largest crash compact in the United States everyone by the seat of my pants and business i don't know what do you yeah i know i can tell what what do you um do you have a job yeah i'm a truck driver so i've always i've i've got my cdl and i i've bought until three different semi trucks but i lost i lost of almost four hundred thousand dollar income last year during the divorce and i was paying three thousand dollars in child support i just ate me alive um i did have fifteen thousand dollars in debt in that but i okay let me stop here here there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation like you you sound so desperate you called it an application when you're talking to us and it's not it's it's a phone app for god's sake this is not rocket surge right and so and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate and all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid because every time i get that sound in my voice like a big old chasing a rabbit that's about the time i'm about to do something dumb and i i can hear it on your arm just being honest with you all right so what i would tell you to do what i would tell you to do is this i would tell you to slow your butt down take a breath okay that's what i'm going to tell you to do and then if you want to proceed with this the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds and so if this thing is really a big deal okay you know it's twenty four thousand dollars for this stuff i'm going to pay you fit forty eight thousand dollars the first forty eight thousand that we make on this i'm going to pay you out and i'm going to pay you double and then they're done and the problem is as soon as you'd get the thing up and here's what i'll teach you about apps they're not one and done you can't ship it and forget it a hundred percent of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated the negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it the great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better so your cousin you're not frozen when i print a book it's either good or bad i'm stuck with it it's on the shelf for the next 40 years it's a printed book when i put put something out in the digital world i can change it tomorrow and i can change it the next day and i can change it the next day and make it better as i go along and i will and so ever the every dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name every dollar originally it has iterated and upgraded iterated and upgraded iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years and so your software engineering costs have just begun my friend if this is actually going to work and be successful your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill um you know the number of times that people steal something on and Apple stores just not that big it doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff right and duplicating it but i mean i'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in a scarfsep and idea that because you didn't have it patented um so you know it's you know i don't i'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea and of course here's the other thing so as you patented you're going to iterate it and change it so then you got to update the dad gun pay yeah this is no i don't know i so yeah i do know i would slow down breathe if you want to involve a software engineer and pay him 1.5 or pay him 2.0 what they're worth but they only get paid out of the proceeds and if there are never any proceeds they get nothing if it never works they put in their money for nothing if they want to join the adventure for some extra money that might be a way to draw somebody in but the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like john said and then just write somebody a check to have first round of software engineering done but be prepared as soon as you start making little money you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade niterate upgrade niterate you do not ship it and forget it in the digital world my friend this is the ramsey shot hey it's Rachel Cruz the holidays are here which means family time and giving back and remembering what the season is all about and let's be real it also means shopping y'all if you're anything like me December gets really busy and really expensive it's harder to stay intentional with your spending and that's why I love shopping on amazon especially this time of year named the lowest price us online retailer for nine years running by profitaro a third party analytics and research firm amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and beat competitors by up to 5% and key gift categories between amazing deals stress free shopping and fast shipping amazon makes gift giving simpler the holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check that allows me to get back to enjoying the season what more could a busy mom ask for so for more information about amazon's low prices and easy affordable holiday shopping head to amazon today you welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio dr john de launie number one person number one best selling author i'm the number one person out of your the number one person that's it i'll take it yeah you're all of that and uh number one show on the ramsey networks not really but a big show on the ramson network season number one everywhere in his mind so check it all out he's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working open phones at triple eight eight two five two two five tomas is in south Dakota help us Thomas what's up hey hey vadega on what's going on i'm calling today because uh i'm 18 years after duty uh military thank you um unfortunately thank you uh unfortunately a couple years ago life happened um and i ended up getting divorced um with that before we got divorced my ex-wife and i we were completely debt free and uh i was able to contribute 60 percent of my income towards investments oh 40 percent was like in my TSP and another 20 percent was going to my kids college funds wow um but now that i'm divorced uh i've been divorced now for two years um i have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt i'm back at fifty seven thousand dollars worth of debt what in the world what did you buy in two years uh so i bought a vehicle uh your baby step well kind of truck is it that's a Ford Raptor well i think we found the problem tomas and i'm definitely part of it uh no it's the whole thing that's all that tether swift true to talk about it sure to force Raptor truck we know what it is called i'm the problem it's me so by uh i'm calling because i can pay the debt off pretty quickly what do you mean 78 thousand dollars a year you make 78 a year and you oh what on the Raptor i owe 57 yeah but while i owe 37 on the Raptor in 18,000 in uh credit card debt that i used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that i got divorced okay um i still contribute the 60 percent of my income towards my TSP um you can't afford to do that for broke so i was thinking so my my philosophy here and what i was looking for is some guidance i was thinking about cutting off my TSP um however in the divorce my ex-wife decided to go ahead hey your whole military pension is yours i just want half the TSP um i've still been contributing because in my head i was like i'd rather make a little bit of one money on the back end first is stop contributing all together and out of spite just not contribute because i don't want her to get it when when does she get half now uh 67 what oh no i mean that's not possible is this divorce isn't final is it it is yes sir so when we went to court there was uh i had several different options that i could do um and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67 yes not hat not what half of it becomes by then but whatever's in there at hat that's not right something's wrong that's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff they said that was the better of the deal apparently these lawyers didn't take math class that's a horrible deal um all right so you need to get clarification because i don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces i've never heard of this deal okay this is what you got it is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her now that is a normal process in a divorce and she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes it is very strange for her to get anything at age 67 like i've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what i did that's strange what they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP yeah that would be normal but half the TSP today not at 67 well now with the deal that they worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension she only get the qsp okay now are at 67 at 67 when it maturs okay then it should be half what half like you're half of your TSP how much is in your TSP today uh 166 okay so half would be 80 84000 83000 okay right yeah today so whatever 83000 grows to at age 67 she should get but she shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then right so that was going to be my next question is if i just stop contributing all together you have to contribute listen if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not that's the worst deal i've ever heard of in my life i've never even heard of you get half at 67 that's just very weird dude like like these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent weird okay but if you did do that you need to go back and clarify is it what half of it today becomes what 83000 becomes at 67 or is it just half of whatever's in there because if it's half of whatever's in there you don't put another dime in it you're done with that you got to go put money in Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff but the TSP's off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many i may hold her you i'm 36 now good god for 30 years you're going to contribute to her but no thank you you did the worst deal ever so no we're not doing that that's dumb that's dumber than a rock man i'm telling you that i'm so pissed at your lawyer right now i can't see i want to smack him this is horrible but you did the deal i guess it's final so you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there it's going to be whatever's in there otherwise they would have just transferred the a3 out they should have just transferred the a3 out that's what they should have done that would be normal instead of this dumb but that it did so yeah john is correct it is whatever's in there later because i tried to fight and get the half now but then there were like then here's what here's what it is she gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else because you're not going to anything else do it you're stupid if you do okay but you're the one that's on this divorce decree also so oh my god this is a horrible man it's just 30 year claim on future earnings for you she's may have kids but we have two of them i've heard i've heard a few just i want to get away from this woman really bad this is what this is i've heard i've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18 right so if you were making 25 grand until you make 150 grand that's child support that's not this that's child support that's not that's what i'm saying like i've heard of that that's normal but half the 401k is normal half the tsp is normal but you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it okay your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you wrote your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney so you have two reasons for a broken heart so you've got to sell this truck honey and i love Raptors i drove one over here today i like them but this truck is brain damage so it's killing you you cannot afford to drive this truck it's more truck than you can afford with the money you make sell your truck get your budget back balanced and move into the future and please don't put anything else in this tsp the calendar might have flipped but the way to win with money hasn't changed living on a budget staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally now here's the deal most banks make their money when you don't do that they're fine if you stay broke and frustrated and that's why i recommend fair winds credit union they actually want you to win with money their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account a high yield savings account and the new ramsi be weird debit card that says debt is normal be weird right on the front it's not just a card it's a statement because every time you use it it says you control your money your money doesn't control you so this year stick to your plan don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps visit fair winds dot org slash ramsi to take control of your money and stay weird fair winds is federally insured by the ncu a cheering Why 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You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate. You couldn't get anywhere else. So go to YReFi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, my in-laws are too much to deal with specifically my mother-in-law. Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She, I don't know how mother-in-laws know they just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man. I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. You're a worse. You're hard on mighty. That makes me so uncomfortable to think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through her. Unsolicited. Go through our stuff. Without your permission. And even more uncomfortable as my wife said, I need this to not happen again. And I said, I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy. Oh my gosh. Abigail, you have a husband problem. It needs to run down to Walmart on Al-3 and pick up a backbone. Yeah, and some pamper swells there. Because you might T.T. and his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this come. I mean, this is awful. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. It's awful. Mother and law is going to do what... Here's a deal. I think if... And maybe she's controlling, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother and law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how. She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. Yes. And she doesn't think you're loving him the right way, but she's not going to say anything. She's just going to keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old. And he's to grow up real real quick. Yeah. So, if you say a thing, you start a 10-year feud. You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to have a backbone. And this is out of line. The boundaries... There's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous. And it needs to stop yesterday. Tell him you want the locks changed. And you want him to talk, call his mother and tell her not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple. And this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this. Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. He's not good anymore. And you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short-com conversation. And he needs to man up and do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother and law problem. You have a husband problem and you only need to sit down with a marriage counselor. Correct. And by the way, to husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, my wife doesn't want you coming in the house to love anymore. No, you'll be a grown-up and you say, I, I messed up. Leave and cleave. That's right. Leave your mother and father. We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. To your spouse. Oh, my God. And mother-in-laws, don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked you for your help. Don't do that. Even if there's a newborn and they asked for your help, you still ask permission. Yes. Of course, but I mean, that's if you've been invited in. Show up with a key that you had before they were married. So one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you heard this one? No. I had a personal assistant 25 years ago. A powerful Christian lady and she got engaged. So for her engagement party, all the guys we took her to a nice hockey game in Nashville. The announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a key, went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, Sheree is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her. And like 500 guys got up and started bringing keys to her. It was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's much better than this one. This just makes me sad. Yeah, this is bad. Yeah. Can I tell you this one thing? So one time a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and there was a couple of friends of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some like just somebody passed away or something and I said, hey, let's get them a house cleaner. Just to come in and clean up and my wife looked at me and said, are you crazy? So what do you mean? She said, you know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and they hired someone to come clean my house. Oh, it'd be like an insult. Yeah, an insult. And so I've got to say mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex. Right. It's a little bit of a flex. And so it's like cooking a little zanya. It's like the recipe you got for lasagna. You're not taking care of my little boy. The way he deserves to be taken care of all come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom. Like it's like your underwear was folded wrong. That's it. So I'm sorry, honey. I'll do it for you. Yeah. It's been grow up mother and law flex. This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. They I never feel uncomfortable. This one does. This is like it's got it's got a little stalker. Ask it. It does. It's got a key and she sneaks in like keyblers elves or something and cooks and they just do laundry. No, because this kind of mother not leaves a note that says, hey, I noticed things were messy. So I cleaned up and I vacuumed. They'll have a great night and it's just like a little. A total flex. But if you say anything, it's like, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I won't help anymore. Yeah, right? You're a martyr out. Yeah. Yeah. You should definitely martyr. The old. Oh, okay. There's some there's some old dairy queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. I'll just eat the old clean x's and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And y'all get down. Y'all just come out. It's the hey, I did run into a guy that is opening a new food truck called wherever you want to go. That's the cheese. Everybody asks where they want to eat. Wherever you want to go. Okay, we're heading right there. There used to be a great little honky-tonk in Lubbock, Texas called the library. We're going, we're going library. I'm the honky-tonk. I want to love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. And I will admit that the hardest stage of parenting for me has been parenting children who are no longer in my control. It is the hardest stage to stay out of other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And so that does not matter. And I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It requires a little bit of discipline. Yeah. Even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals. He's a freshman. And I know the science of studying, I know the pedagogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career. And he's got to go through this first round of finals. And the way he rolls his eyes to, I know. Okay. And it's hard because I want to go in there and say, this is what he's got to learn this time. And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, I need some help. Yeah, that's showing how to do this. And it's hard. It's hard when you're precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded right. Mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now. Abigail. Back up. Back up. Be cool. Be cool, man. It's a little bit sick. Her nose into everything. It's the move stuff while we weren't home. That one's weird. You know, the, came back the furniture's rearranged. It's kind of like misery. Yeah, it's kind of, it's got a stalker-esque thing to it. The penguin always faces Nora. This is the Ramsey show. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we heard all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential, because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income, in coverage, no gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straight forward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast. It's easy, and they could make all the difference. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself. Protect your income. Protect your family. Dr. John D'Alone Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Ramsey show. The phone number is triple eight, eight to five, five to two, five. Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help we really can. Follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click subscribe or click follow. It really helps our numbers big time. Because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it here about it. It's the best promotion we get. And also you share the show. A lot of these apps and platforms have a share button or a share feature. You can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. Friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson. He said, hey man, listen to this. I sent it to another friend of mine. Just like that. Tucker's got a great podcast. It's going to zoom right now. And so on. So listen to Joe Rogan's. It was going to zoom. It was really good. I sent it. Just share it. Anytime you read a good book, Jack Carl's got a new book out. If the day I did a terminal list, he read every one of his. And so yeah, I'm telling everybody, go get the new one. It's good. It's very cool. So Felkins brought me a copy of Jack's new book. Have you seen it? I saw that he signed it. And he shot it. Oh, I didn't see that. It's got a bullet hole in it. Fabulous. If you don't know Jack, he's a former seal. And so these are all Navy seal books and they're like, you know, shoot them up, spy movie type stuff and they're great books. Fiction obviously. And yeah, but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I think maybe I want to do that with my next book. I think that would be fantastic. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which she does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Kathy's in Philadelphia. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hello. I'm calling today with a question I can hope, or I hope you guys can help me with. My husband and I are considering putting in a filler array to offset our utility bill. And I was, I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at. Currently, okay. So husband and I are like between baby steps five and six, I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that like specifically. This is child A. This is child B. There's their college fund. They're pretty young yet. Three and five. We feel like we've got some time to. So you would pay cash for the solar. We that's what we want to do. How much is it to the solar? The units about 53,000. Okay. And what is the, what's the break even on it? They say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years. We'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and F R E C and those things. Okay. That's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven year break even. And most of the time that you see that you're going to get that, it's going to be in an area of the country that is a lot of sun. So I mean like you know a Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. You're you know that kind of thing. You're not going to is a little different than Philly and not Seattle. You know that kind of stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency as far as what's the break even meaning. What do you pay for it? How does how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy thus how fast it saves you money? I've watched the technology on that. It's probably five or ten times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long, long way. It used to just be total crap. And now it's like I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on. You know, and I'm fine to do that as long as I don't endorse financing it obviously. But but generally I tell folks a five to a seven. Your eight is borderline. What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off. That would still get you that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so. And that might get you to a six or seven year break even. Maybe they got you, you know, with a convertible and power windows. I don't know, right? Right, right. Absolutely. You know, check that out, learn about that. That's what I would do if I were in this situation. But I'd run one more company too. Have one more company come over and get a give a bid and see what good I'd say. That's a good idea. Well, we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000, 50,000 by pitting them against each other. So we've got kind of that's about where I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000 almost, that's a good start. That's a good start. I see that got some margin in that crap. That's cool. Okay. So I knew they were making bank, but I'm a fan of the technology. I'm not a fan of the you're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill. Oh, that's dumb butt stuff because the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess. You got a lean on your property. You got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave Freakin-Rimsie. Okay. So, but the, but you're not doing that, but the vet's for everybody else. The technology has come a long, long way. I will tell you this, Kathy, I think it's going to go a long way further. So like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's attached to your house is crap. Okay. It'd be like you had a seven year old computer or a seven year old cell phone. You know, how much further it's come along. That's the rate, that's the pace of change in the technology. And so don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house. It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just, you know, what is a seven year old computer? A door stop. You know, that's what it is. It's like, what it has to boot up. You know, it's like, you know, where's the dots? What is this strange speechball thing? You know, it's like, you know, so I even handed one of our audio guys an old iPod that I found and said, hey, I want to pull the music off of it because my, I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. And I said, I want you to fill it with all country songs. And this, he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turd. She's like, what is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. Fresh dog. Yeah. Probably could've used a better analogy on your radio show Dave, but our radio show, your radio show. There we go. Thank you. But yeah, it was, it was strange, but hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. Yeah, there you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good by yourself, Dave and John. Good. How can we help? Yeah, my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have on seven properties, one of them is my partner, resident and six investments. The three of the investment properties are paid off and we've been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. You'd be 100% debt-free. Including my partner and yes, sir. I would do that right now. You think? Yes. Yeah, today. Okay. I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debt-free more. I agree. And we were trying to hold on to the not-so properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future, but you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments. I see. You have the number of how much you can stack cash with no payments to be able to buy the next one debt-free and by the next one debt-free and by the next one debt-free. That's what I started doing about 20 years ago. And I've got quite a large amount of real estate now. I can ask one more quick question on the topic of real estate. Yes, sir. On the property, once they're outpaid off, would you recommend I continue to keep the homeowners insurance? Yes. I'm in Florida. I have homeowners insurance. Well, it's not homeowners. It's Fire and E.C. It's not technically homeowners. Homeowners is for owner occupied only. But Fire and E.C. You got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Ugh. Super expensive. You're right. Just run the analysis on it and go, how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by Hurricane? What would you do? I wish you had insurance. Maybe. I don't know. I run a worst case scenario through my emotional filters and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. You know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. If you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Your home buyer-edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market. You can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre-approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's Churchill Mortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. Home buyer-age and seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only, and not available in all states or locations. In the MSID 1591, in the MS Consumer Access dot org, Eagle Housing Lender. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. Open phones. A triple 8, 825-5225. Cory is with us in Washington, DC. Hi, Cory. How are you? Hi, I'm all thanks. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living. I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship, and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've been paid off. I've been paid off all the credit card debt and all the, and the car, both. Yes, all that. Way to go. How long have you been there? I have been here for six years. Oh. So I've paid that off, and I've saved, and I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three time came out that I was. What are you making? Now I make one 18. Why are you still there? Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for home. I've been outbid several times by like $40,000. How are you? $40,000. Okay. Why have you not gone and just rendered something? Your debt frame, you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something. Yeah. The rentals around here for a three-bedroom. I have three kids and myself. For a three-bedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially. So I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work and then the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? No. The secret to happiness is lower expectations. You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do. Understood. And you probably won't be able to catch up that carrot. And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school living with their grandmother. Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to go to school. Yeah. But the point is that you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices. Okay. And you're not. So I get paid by weekly. And I get paid about $2,600. Again, my income just went up in January. I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and a year before. So with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. If I understood you're debt-free and you have how much saved? About 60. It's close to 60. And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. Did I understand all of that right? Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a broken toxic horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you. And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. Well done. Thank you. Well done. Thank you. You've really accomplished a lot here. Thank you. The thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that probably in the marriage and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in, or both nicer than the home that you can afford now, and you're having trouble with that. Probably, yeah. I definitely looked at lowering some of my living, what I'm used to, but... The home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home? No. Okay. So the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in. No. And you're not damaged because of that. Well, yeah. I mean, this house is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that. Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. Okay. That's the point. Your childhood home, though, you might, and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the real estate channel on being redone by Chippin' Joanna. Okay. So, I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish the sustainability of your own life. Well, that's an inexpensive rental, and you have a little bit too far of a commute, or it's not a stellar piece of property that lines up with all of your wants, but does cover your needs. But I think you've said your... I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. And I'm going to pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. I think it's probably both in. It's moved the carrot out and the housing market. It's gotten tough, so I see NDC. I'm not saying it's not tough. I'm not saying the way she can enter the market, Matt, $120,000 a year with a $60,000 dollar down payment is probably not... I mean, D.C. is super expensive. Right. You're going to be outside of D.C. You're not buying a place... That's it. You're not buying a place in D.C. Proper. You're not buying a place in LA or San Francisco. You know, that used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations are based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else. And Dave, this is like a thing that I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, and I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom... There's a warrior. ...who is extraordinary. The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It wasn't anything. It was I had two parents that always scratched and clawed, and both of them had mid-life career changes. I had them flourish and lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career, and I had the courage to go do something else, and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids, and it's not something that you can buy. It's something you witness. And so go get a town home if that's all you can afford, and two of your kids can share a room, and they're going to be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them, and they're watching you blaze a path. That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy. The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero. There's a lot of kids I'm telling you right now. I just had this conversation this weekend in Utah with their behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it, and then they go to college, or then they get married, and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something. Because somebody said, oh, the access to the world does not run through the top of your little head. I know. I've talked to every resident's hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met, and I've always asked him, just privately, shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say the right thing to do, developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms, their own bathrooms, their own whirlpool tub, so I have to make these single ones. But if it was, if I was a king for a day, you mean there's not a skylight? Everybody has to share a room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No. Yes, kids can share rooms. They're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So, you've got to get them a gift, Corey. They can change schools. It's okay. It's okay. You've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then standing knee-deep in that manure and flourishing. It's amazing. And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just, I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So, that's going to mean you either that you change probably the neighborhood you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting. And it may be a long commute. It may mean a complete move. It may mean a lot of other things. But, and that's not to say I think that Washington, D.C., real estate is cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsey shop. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones, a triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five, Daniels in New York City. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey, a big fan of the show. Me and my girlfriend were both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry, sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially, well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what you thought were. The data is not in your favor. Yeah, I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the co-habitation data longitudinally just for earned income. Something as simple as household income over time is less than those who are married. Not to mention the statistics run, the relationship not making it over time. How long have you all been dating? Four years. Four years? Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on? I would like to do it. My parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for six months to a year prior. I would like to do it. I'm also heating their advices. Hold on. My parents. I'm 25, 26 in a month. Okay. If you already have your guy who's going to listen to their parents, even if you disagree with them, where are you calling two strangers on a podcast? I was just curious what your guys' opinions was. You already knew. Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the date and you're like, yeah, I already knew that. Right. We both think we're very financially found. We've saved up a bunch of money. So I'm just curious if that changes anything or no. No, because how old were you when you got married? Me? Yeah. 24? Okay. I was 22. Yeah. I've been married 43 years. I'm 23 and a half. I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them. I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. I respect John and I disagree with him sometime. Yeah. We disagree all the time. Not really. And I'm usually right. Not really. That's even hard. Really. Yeah. Let me take this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes, sir. Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, ask for me in my household. Yeah. Your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son, they can only advise you. Right. So my next question was, and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do. Yes, sir. Understood. So we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for engagement ring or rings. In our area for like New York City and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. We've traveled to a few cities. We just were other than like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions. We graduated together with associates degrees. Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions, separate from what you called about, right? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. So, yes, one month of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. And yes, one fourth of your take home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation. You're short on money, you're house poor, when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you. But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take home, you got a bad formula. It's not you're going to struggle with that one. Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents can be free from knowing that they're going to be good. Yeah. No, too soon. Yeah. Plus, plus, plus, you're minus the rats. Oh, yeah. Okay. And I'm not talking about the rodents, but, you know, okay. Yeah, I, I, I don't know. It's, um, no, Daniel, um, the math still has to math even in New York. And so, yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. Maybe if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into, uh, sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility too. Lots of people live, leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began, people have done that until they can afford to do it. And so, um, you know, and, and New York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally, New York, Tokyo, London, San Francisco, I mean, these are, this is the list, right? Paris, these are very Uber expensive to live in, not just because they're recognizable, major metro areas, but just think an expensive period. And so try renting a flat in London. Whoo. That'll get your attention. Scots in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott? Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Drum. My wife and I, we are almost done with baby sub two, um, 49 years old. Um, and I was approached today, um, at work to purchase a long term care policy. It's, uh, nursing home care says it. Yeah. Yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, life benefit term, you don't need it. You don't need it. That's what I was wondering. It's a little hesitant on that. What's the main, the main deal is long term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero. Oh, so we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it yourself. Ensure. Just pay for the nursing home or pay for in home care or whatever you're going to do. Okay. If you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically the guy dies before the lady, 75% of the time. And so Papa goes in the nursing home, uses up all the money and then dies, leaves mama broke. That's the one 60 years old that needs long term care insurance. You don't need it at 40. 49. 49. You don't need it till you're 60. I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it. That's where I was. I was a little hesitant. And I have a life insurance policy, you know, a term life that's done, I guess until I'm, yes, it's 75 at ends. I also have insurance through the military. Should I be purchasing any other type of life insurance? Well, life insurance, you need about 10 to 12 times your income on you to cover your family if you die. And that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown, hopefully they'll be gone. And so that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And so you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance. Buying and selling a home is a big deal. And you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. Your hand picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an application. So we decided that Ramsey should have an app that would do your budget. And we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really over the last decade or so, the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called every dollar because every dollar has an assignment by you. You assign every one of your dollars a place to go. Give it a name. Well, what is ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars in programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and have managed to integrate into it the whole Ramsey plan, the Ramsey way. So like you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do with this baby step or what do I do there, what do I do there. And we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of every dollar. So the all new every dollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete game changer. You can watch the premiere on your on our YouTube channel and see see how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get get get into the every dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the baby steps framework and the Ramsey way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity. Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The all new every dollar, it's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you? Good guys. How are you doing? That are not a reserve. How can I help? So me and my wife were 24, fresh out of college, few years ago. So we decided to build a home or forever home. And the cost kind of got out of control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. They actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. There's a different story behind that, but they're very accumulated some wealth over the years. They've handed us over a lump sum of money to help us build this house. And whatever is left over, we will pay back and mortgage payment to them. Me and my wife make about 130,000 a year before taxes with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is, and we do have a good amount of savings from the past years of working about 120,000 dollars in savings. I'm sorry. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. My question. Every single one of their kids out, I'm one of three brothers. But you made yourself like you got in trouble and they isolation cheering cheering cheering No, no, no sir. No, no, no. So what happened with the house you got you bought too much house. What's the deal with the house? Yeah, so we're building Oh, you're still building. Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. Oh you just started building Yes, so the deal was with them was we can collaborate with them. They can help out I mean, we have a really good relationship with my parents. I work for them actually and They wanted to this what they wanted to do for us and so we kindly accepted it And any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over We would pay back to them at a mortgage and and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young We're 24 when I think in my kids right now Do we Give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning Or do we have some of that? Keep most of it and travel and have fun in our early 20s. So do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel That's an essence what this where there's lands When I say it that way does it sound as crazy to use it does to me. Yeah a little bit Yeah, no You you like did grown up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old Pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Very good the surest way the surest way to blow it up is to have money in between you Okay, and I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24 especially when you got two people who are like no It's no big deal. It's no big deal. Just take it from two older guys Clear the money between your relationship so that it can stay as good as it is right now I think I heard a two-stage deal here like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough And so then they'd loan you more is that right? Yes, they loaned us the full amount of whatever cost for the house for paying for it and cash To build so they're not taking loan out from any there. They've been completely that for you since 2008 I know but you know of them. Yeah a mortgage payment Okay, so that part where they went through financial peace university they flunked the class because we tell you not to do that ever Don't ever loan your children money Oh my god because it puts a wedge between the relationship. Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender now you have to eat dinner Hey eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master Yeah, that's gonna be painful for your wife Not gonna bother you much because it's your parents, but it's gonna be painful for your wife Understood. Oh, so how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on? Probably gonna be around 200 to 250,000 Okay, and how much of a gift did they give you? About 50% of the total cost to build so about 250,000 so your 24 years old you make 130 and you got a 400 $50,000 house Yes Dang Gina, okay, it's a lot of house dude. That's a lot of house. All right Well for sure the answer to your question is no you don't need to go on vacation. Yes, you need to hundred do the Take the hundred and thirty thousand, but I'm even gonna go a step further I'm gonna put the hundred and thirty thousand with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage and then I'm gonna go get a commercial mortgage Not from your parents Okay, because I don't want this mortgage. I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money for any amount of interest I don't think you're gonna do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed Thing and all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of pay back and back Here's here's what I would see I can see myself Working really hard so I can I can bulldoze the path for my son and his new wife I get that But if my son was to hand me a check for a hundred thirty grand and say dad I've got this money saved up This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't want you to be my banker. I would be so Proud and in a way you're kind of not showing them up But you're kind of saying I'm taking this but I'm taking the reins here It would show a level of wisdom and maturity I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can't dad because the arrangement he's put you in is madness It it just ends in Somebody wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to and it's like well after all we've It just it's just a recipe for disaster But man if you went and did what Dave just said go get a commercial loan for the rest of it And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. So 120,000 or more. The tiny tiny tiny mortgage Just go do that man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as you'll make If you don't go on trips. Yeah, if you don't go to Europe and by the way, you're I don't know David Trips are more fun when I when I'm older now. I don't know why they just are well They're more fun because they don't follow you home But in essence that's what this ends up being I don't have I don't have a Sunday amount with borrow from mom and dad By the amount that we spend on the trips. Yeah, so it's black borrowing on the trip borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip And obviously that would be ludicrous So moms and dads those of you that graduated from financial peace university with a better grade than that mom and dad got Which was an F Here's the rule, okay if you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and Part of that bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family to be completely changed Great never make your child Your grown child your slave You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law your son-in-law you change the relationship and how you interact with each other It's just you're adding layers to it that you are Unintended, but they're very real and no one is the exception even a nice master is a master You Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you in debt running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back turns out it's not the numbers It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional That's why I wrote my brand new book would no one tells you about money to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress So you can finally win you can pre-order now and score over a hundred dollars and free bonus items But only if you order by January 5th go to ramsey solutions.com slash store today Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage Deema and Ronda are with us. Hey guys. How are you? Hey Dave? How are you better than I deserve? Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina. Oh, I love Durham. Great town Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys how much debt have you to paid off? We paid off $266,192 How long did this take oh my god four years and eight months Yeah, Lee alright and your range of income during that time our starting salary was 138,000 in our ending salary was 284,500 Look at you too Well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company. So I'm a compensation in the compensation role Okay, I don't even know what that means I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor And you make it I'm also a professor as well Very good good for you guys. That's awesome. Thank you. So what kind of debt was the 266? Yeah, so it was a car loan credit card and Deema's grad school So lose to the loan. Yeah, so my my student loans were 150,000 and Ronda's were 100 That's undergraduate graduate and doctorate and yeah, and so for me I went out of state Dave and a private institution And then I went on and got a master's after that so talk about like Hello on it on. Yeah, okay. So how long have you two been married? Oh This year celebrate we're celebrating 10 years. So halfway through five years ago. Yeah, something happened What happened what what set you off on this? He decided to go get that last degree and We were already like if you want to think about it We were like 800 and something and then student loans just me with Deema's student loans being in forbearance and we're like What are we gonna do when your loans come out and we have to start paying like mind you We had just had a little one in 2017 and Deema started school and like we cannot take on my loans daycare And then when Deema get like his student loans we were scared like what's that gonna look like? Yeah It just kept stacking up till I got scary. Yeah, it got really scary. What'd you do? I mean we were graduates of the Financial Police Institute University So I think we were just kind of picking at baby steps baby steps But when we realize what we're gonna be under with all the student We were just like we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional time to get hardcore Yeah, absolutely all right, so you lean in yeah, and what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did? We we started doing the monthly monthly meetings talking about our finances Hard conversations Heart conversations. I mean credit cars of course We we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash and if it wasn't on our our monthly You know things that we had talked about them. We weren't doing it What would you do the spender He'll see I'll hopefully you would know Well your shoes are shot for your watch is blinding me Let me say this he for his birthday. He's like oh, let's go let's get this car Let's let's test drive it on his birthday. We ended up walking away with a car So I would say Dave after we got intentional that car we sold it and we were upside down So we're like but we can't and we made sure that anything else we had we were paying cash for as far as cars And that was really the testament that he was able to say hey I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt and sold a car Be in debt for he was more more important. I'm sure you all made it incredible combined salary together Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all I drive in $40 million dollars cars You know we still own I have a 2010 Mazda Great. Yeah, it's your best doing his compensation job. Yes, absolutely You know, we're like hey, we can get rid of this like you know We think about gas prices and things like that But it's making us more intentional and saying like now that we've paid off debt. What else can we do? definitely humbling ourselves and Having faith in the process was a struggle, but you know, I definitely say be persistent and resilient Absolutely because you know what Dave like we're all taught to like pay off debt But then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt? And so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to Paying off our student loans and paying over years. I mean, that's not how that pattern right there right right up for years are doing nothing But you know what one of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say what are we gonna do and our member a Birthday we had a hundred dollars and said we were gonna do with that We went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip and is like we packed sandwiches We we everything was free and we're like wow and I'm like I'm still talking about that birthday So it is like be humble and you'll be surprised. I think even Dima made me a birthday cake so Box but you know it was it was good and it was humbling to us There you go and Dima can I tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner? Yes I've always wondered if you want to do this this scientific study. I'll put it on the air for you I always wondered if You're somebody in the helping profession if you're a professor. How much do you have to curb? What the research says how much you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say Because you're not really supposed to say that and I owe somebody money Yeah, and now the students that you're gonna be teaching They're gonna get unfiltered you because nobody nobody you know Nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over you You're gonna be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours. Yeah, here's the truth Yeah, cuz I don't know anybody anything man I can I could speak from here now. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely, and I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt-free Just the freedom if you will like like you mentioned doctor John like that freedom that you have to kind of You have that discretionary income if you will it's we're still working through the baby steps But you have more freedom and there's no there's no one There's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay Yeah, yeah, I'm proud of you guys well done proud of you excellent. What do you go heroes? Thank you. How does it feel? Oh, I mean Dr. Dr. You said it it just to not owe anybody anything like Really what can we do now? It's is really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers in like how do we give back? It's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're just like just ready and Fire it up about it. It's refreshing like our budget meetings are it's a different a different Thank you to thank you to oh my god, oh, oh Ramsey crew. Yeah, thank you all well way to go. Yeah, we're proud of you Hey, this is one of the rare couples that they both married well You're both good all right Thank you We want to have an our marriages, but you'll both get a will. That's all thank you appreciate it That's great very well done you too very well done all right It's Dima and Ronda from Durham, North Carolina 266,000 dollars paid off in four years and eight months Making 138 to 284 count it down. Let's hear a debt freeze-cream Love it well done very well done Yeah, I guess The the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically, but it's Particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck so you can just kind of go here's the truth Well, and you you said the table and this is what this is how we're gonna teach this or this is how we're saying this or if you have this belief you're stupid and If you owe a whole bunch of money you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing about your time Yeah, and so now Dima's been unleashed. It's gonna be fun to see it happen man. Why do you go heroes? This is the Ramsey show You Listen up guys because I've got a big question for you Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off worse or exactly the same? Believe it or not you get to choose look I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money But I want you to hear me you're more in control than you think you can turn your finances around So let me help you out start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free every dollar live stream event on January 8th We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead and you could even win two thousand dollars just for signing up Listen another year is gonna pass anyway, so decide that this is the year You're gonna take that control of your life and your money go sign up for the free live stream at every dollar.com slash live stream Our scripture today a second Corinthians one four he comforts us all in our troubles so we can comfort others when we when they are troubled We will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us Jordan Peterson says face the demands of life voluntarily Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe Amber Lee is with us in Concord new Hampshire. Hey, Amber Lee. How are you? I'm good. How are you better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I My husband and I have made a series of really bad financial mistakes and We were just wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year What kind of mistakes Well, we were house poor We bought a duplex that um, you know, we're it's overwhelming We have to wait we pay about three grand a month and He only make about 60 grand gross So what why would you wait a year? You're drowning I know he are what is that you're waiting Well, I I'm the main person Who does the budget and I was I was just I for some reason it seems like We make we do somewhat make a little bit more money if I stay here, but I feel like it's wrong like I feel like it's better if we can Move I'm confused you feels like you make more money math is not a feeling do you make more money or not? Well We we make 60 grow 60 grand growth and then Um, we also get 25 hundred a month from the other side and so It I don't know I probably probably should and we're We're not like being a landlord in Brille No, okay, I don't So let's Solid yeah, be honest about the problem is I can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck Yeah, your sanity is not worth it. Yeah Yeah, and I am house It is and we found out that our our tenant has been running the water um 24 seven And so we're sorry, I'm just School overwhelming being on the air sorry um, it's okay. You're good. We've never lost a patient. You're okay Yeah, and um I want to and we're in this market where I know that we could technically You know this house would appreciate but Doesn't matter. I do want to give it a good matter. It's not it's not fun No everything in this conversation says you're not having fun No, this house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse Yeah, and TikTok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex rent the other side don't pay your mortgage and you're gonna And now it's not fun. Yes, I thought you found out TikTok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock Yeah, yeah Yeah, so And To put it on the market like next month or I mean By Friday. Yeah, Friday Friday Friday sounds good I'm not kidding I'm not kidding if I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this Even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake I'm still gonna admit the mistake. I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it I want it I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done Otherwise every time you drive up the driveway you're going. I don't feel really good about me Yeah, and you can't be the wife you want to be you can't be the mom you want to be you can't be the employee You want to be it affects every every squirrens of your life. You're not having fun. We can hear it And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right? Yeah, I mean if you had a house payment you could afford you could breathe again. You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now Yeah I'm scared. Yeah, we can hear it and it's not being mean to you I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like And so the thing is that the faster you act on this the quicker you're going to get peace Yeah, and peace is really our goal here You got plenty of time to buy a different house plenty of time to make different real estate decisions Sell this thing and go run an apartment or something for six months and breathe a little bit And then slow down and make a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate You can do this So go to ramsey solutions.com and click on Real estate ELPs for Ramsey trusted real estate agents people we trust that we have vetted and they'll help you get the thing on the market And help you get it sold ASAP That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate Isn't that interesting Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong including me It leaves a mark. It's not fun. Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's up Alejandro? Oh, excuse me. Sorry, just drank water No, Trills. Um, yes, my question is Is it worth it to go to college? Now the reason why I'm asking that is because I have a you know my brother. He's basically studying in US And he's been going to college for Basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors No, he's a you know, straight student and everything And um, my my worry some is that his debt is five digits. So no, yeah five digits basically So he's going from like Let's say from 9,000 to 60,000 and like the amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right? And what are we asking about you or him? How is that um, this is more for for him than is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision Right, right, but what I want to know is that like From what I see in the market overall I see employers basically asking More than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling me is that Oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree But they're only offering like 70,000 instead of the range of the college promised him And that's kind of like you know, what is his degree going to be in to continue the Sports medicine, okay And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine 60, 60,000, okay, and this is a four-year degree Um, this is uh, it's becoming eight he did four Then he got his master. Oh, so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine Yes, yeah, well, that's not necessary Okay, in that field so the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college Because yes, it's okay to go to college college is worth the expense If you pay cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace The problem was your brother overdebted He'd got two more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space Or at least one more that he could afford and if he wants to move up then he gets his master's Do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space Yeah, unless oh, maybe if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something they may want you to have a doctor By your name, but who knows? I don't even know the particulars of that But the college is going to give you a range and when they give you a salary range Those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska It's all over the place and so don't blame the college He's got to do his own research and say what does it pay in in the area that I want to live And I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job. I agree with you Alejandro That's not worth it. Absolutely not and you can get a lots of $70,000 jobs for four year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder So if you're just looking at return on investment the trades are awesome There's a gap right now in the marketplace and they get paid beautifully But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect and not a factual statement Yeah, that's not a factual statement getting a degree in stupidity left-handed puppetry or German polka history And then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous And so that's dumb, but you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad That's just not true. No, the data is six my kids are going to go to college. Yeah mine too. So I did Yeah, there you go That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember There's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus You