Uniting Mind and Spirit: The Path to Conscious Living with Jeffrey Allen of Mind Valley

Welcome to the Get Upsets Podcast. I'm so excited to welcome our newest guest, Jeffrey Allen speaker, motivational speaker, author, energy healer, and just all things spiritual, so grateful to have you on the Get Upsets Podcast Jeffrey. Thanks for having me. No, thank you. Oh, wow. So I'm so honored to have Jeffrey for so many reasons. One, I totally got the our Tokyo Jeffrey lives in Japan and I'm in a state. And so he is about 12 hours ahead. So the nice little excitement today. Yeah, it's always tomorrow in Japan. So if you want to know what's going to happen tomorrow, just, you know, give me a call. Oh, there we go. All right, the latest scoop, the latest news, you know, tune in the Jeffrey's page on social media and Instagram, Facebook. Welcome Jeffrey. And we like to ask our guests, what are you obsessed with at the moment? Yeah, really. Good question. Yeah, right now I'm obsessed with getting. I'm my wife's teaching that we've been working on for the last probably almost seven years now since we started the project together. She's been teaching from decades here in Japan, teaching about spirituality and kind of the energy behind how everything works. She would never say she's a teacher, but she's one of the best teachers I've met. And so we started this journey together years ago. And I really started understanding what she's doing. I got an interpreter and went to one of her classes. You saw me and I don't speak a common language quite yet. So I got an interpreter, went to one of her classes, that she was teaching actually in Sedona at the time when we were visiting. And I was just blowing away. I was like, oh, wow, this is so profound. It's so simple. I want, I want to learn more and I want to be able to share this with everybody. And that's not just in the Japanese market. I wouldn't be able to share it all a bit of the world. And I thought that was going to be maybe a six month project. Like we'll just set up a camera. We'll get her to talk. We'll do a little video program. And I was off by quite a bit with my estimate. It was kind of like an Elon Musk estimate. And I thought like, I thought six months and like, oh, five years later, six years later, we're still working. I'm like, holy cow, this is such a big project. Wow. So we shipped it last year in about in January last year in the US with really good reception. People are really loving it. It's called a wake in your spirit mind. And then this month, actually, this coming weekend is our release in Japan. And so that's that's been my obsession for the last many years. It's just helping helping my wife take all the beautiful information that she has that she's sharing with her students and clients and get it to more people. You know, just it's a it's something that it's something similar that I went through years ago where I was teaching my workshops traveling around the world and teaching. But I knew that like I'm here to help more people. And for me, it ended up ended up bumping into my valley and vision. And that that kind of helped me, you know, get my reach out to so many more people. And so now I'm kind of big and forward, you know, with you, Sami, like her messages, even deeper than the message I have. And together, it's just so fun to co-create together. And and get that message out to the world from her. So yeah, really wonderful. Beautiful. But obsessions, obsessions, the right word, definitely. Again, I can feel that energy of it. It was in a great way. It's a great obsession. There are some obsessions that are just fantastic to feel. And especially for seeing someone else succeed and it's passionate they have. Like with your wife, what you say that it's different? How is this work that she has? How is it different than than what you do? Sure. Yeah. So that's a great question. So my my work is primarily teaching people about intuition and energy work and how to how to notice that extra layer of information. It's kind of behind everything we're used to seeing in the physical world. And so I teach, people how to tune in, how to kind of turn down the noise, get that signal within, and then specific energy tools for creating good boundaries or communicating or working with, you know, kind of stress out of the body. And it, you know, my work is very grounded in sort of the material world. It's like taking taking the all the tools that I studied and learned just for fun. It was kind of my, like, my spiritual adventure. That's why I took all these classes, learned all this information. And and taking it into a new audience like what? Because, you know, my my background is math and computer science. I was a software engineer for 15 years. And so I love creating systems that help people help people do things more efficiently help people get like kind of a little bit different perspective. And now I'm doing that with energy instead of software. I have been for, gosh, almost 20 years now. It's kind of shocking when I think about it. And so, so might, even though I'm talking about energy work and intuition and things that are kind of intangible, my work is always, how do we bring that into, you know, kind of everyday life? How do we how do we use our minds that are so busy every day and use them in a little bit different way? So my mind has always been really active and really fast. And it's, you know, I enjoy it. It's stressful times too. But but I really wasn't able to let my mind turn down. So my goal was, let's just give it something useful to do. So if I'm going to be thinking all the time, how can I think in a way that creates joy and happiness in my world? How can I think in a way that's spreading love to others that's creating connections to the vision? How can I how can I use if my brain's going to be active all the time? How do I use it to to help create the world that I want to live in? And, you know, so that's that's that's my work. And he saw me he saw me is in some ways the same and in some ways completely different. So where I was an engineer kind of like, you know, maybe normal person, if you could call me that, maybe I don't quite fit, but maybe I was a normal person. Right with a normal job like a nine to five. Exactly. Exactly. I was like doing the nine to five and living the American dream and and and doing all that. And and I kind of started studying things that were outside the norm. So that's the route that I took. Now my wife you saw me she was always connected with everything. So all information, all knowing this, that never turned off in her for some reason. So for the time she was a child, she could see all this different information that other people didn't see. So even when she was yeah, she had some really funny stories. She says, you know, when she was in I think it was grade school, she's watching the teachers talking and watching the moms, you know, other children's moms talking and she can see the energy. And somebody somebody was like talking about one of the kind of like gossiping, but in a good way about one of the other people that's not there and saying, oh, she's really wonderful mobile law. And he said we can see that it wasn't true. And so she just, you know, as a child, she was really innocent. She didn't understand that everybody didn't see this information. So she'd always say things like, I don't understand why you're saying that because you really hate her. You really jealous of her because she has this and like she's going to like extreme detail. And she didn't understand why does somebody get angry with me? Because she's just saying the world as it is without the kind of filter that our mind puts on the world. And so very different. So but the either is she kind of learned first that this isn't something everybody sees. And also she's just been watching the patterns emerge. So people that are doing this, or if I see this kind of energy, it's going to turn into this kind of action later. Or if I see people in this kind of pain, here's where it came from. You know, it's kind of that it's really fun with intuition. When you really tune in, it doesn't matter who's method using it. If you really tune into intuition, you can feel what's true across time and space. So it doesn't matter if you in the same room or in the same time zone, just all information is available in the quantum field all the time. And so he's some is, you know, my teaching helps people tap into that. But he's some is teaching is it's not about bringing a new awareness. It's about let's just remember your true essence that that is your that is your normal. Your normal is to be always connected always on. And everything else is just sort of a construct of your mind. So here's the way I can turn the mind down the analyzer mind and mind's about sort of giving the mind something useful to do. So two very different approaches. So people that love my work sometimes feel a little bit bored with his son's work. People that love his son's work might feel mine's a little too surface. And it's really kind of fun to be in, you know, both these passions. And my goal is like to help show that they're in, you know, that we're more similar than separate. Yeah. Wow. And so it goes back to what you're I have a question with you're saying that you thought in the beginning we could do this in five months, bring this to the people, bring, you know, his son's message. And it took more than that took like five plus years. Yeah. Do you think that the time that it took was because it was more unfolding. There was more depth to search into. Or was it why do they get took that time? Yeah. Yeah. So he saw me as teaching was already I'd say the teaching that she has today is the same as when I met her. Probably the same as it's been for decades. So she's her understanding isn't really evolving because she's coming from that place of well connection, right? But it took a long time because you know, my my experience up until trying to bring this message out with his family was one of, you know, starting from the analytical mind. When he saw me, she calls it the material mind. Her her core teaching is if you look at in this simplest way, she says, the best way to understand our experience here is to understand that you actually have two minds. You have one mind that she calls material mind that's for dealing with the material world. And it's it's analytical. It's emotional. It's got all the stuff that you usually most of us consider our full experience. She said, and that's great. We need that and there's nothing wrong with that. But it does tend to go from extreme to extreme, you know, like good to bad to write to wrong. It's like, you know, our material mind is kind of a bit drama queen. The monkey brain, monkey mind. Right. Yeah. And most of most spiritual teaching is trying to like people are saying, Oh, I want to move from this negative polarity into a positive polarity. So the goal is to get to the other side. And and so with you saw me she says, well, actually you've got two minds. The second mind is your spirit mind. And it's just full, connecting this full consciousness. And it's actually in the middle, it's not at either end. So she says, so the goal is to get to the middle, which is very difficult because people get kind of bored in the middle. Right. It's kind of quiet there. So it's quite. Yeah, if you get to the middle, you'll naturally start to rise up to say, energy will bring you up. And that's when you start having a more perspective, you're able to observe like, Oh, I'm crumpy. Oh, I'm happy. Oh, it's, you know, you're able to see how this happening. But you're sort of like in the world, been out of the world, right? Because your consciousness is rising. So really, really fascinating. And so you know, back to your question. So the reason it took so long is that, you know, of course, I was just used to dealing in this world. So I was like, okay, let's just, we'll set up the cameras, we'll write some scripts, we'll like ask some questions, we'll do an interview, we'll do whatever it takes to kind of just, you know, make a space for this information to come out. And and we did that, but it didn't come out. It came out differently. It came out like, it wasn't really hers. And so it just took, it took a while. I'd realize, oh, wow, words belong, words are a construct of our, our mind. It's something that people have invented for communication. So on, a spirit doesn't really work in words. Right? And and if and this is something everybody has within already, so it's kind of like, how do you teach something that everybody already knows but has forgotten? It's like, you can't really teach you. So you have to do is you have to kind of address the bigger issue. Like how do you help people turn down the material mind and and start to get more comfortable being in here long enough that they can start getting a bigger perspective. And then, you know, how to provide, you know, enough information that your mind can relax and feel safe, but not so much that it gets excited and starts, you know, you know, getting really active. It's just really fascinating little dance. And I never had to do it in my word because I could just tell people, great, let your mind go crazy. Let's just give it something different to do. Do you that's easier? That's easier. Do you recall the first time that his army taught you her method or demonstrated it for you to allow you to go there? I know you you were already used to energy work. Yeah. How did it feel with doing her method in those early times where yeah, sure. Yeah, the thing that comes to mind is the same. We were renting a place in Sedona, just a little vacation place for month trying to get away. I was actually riding my second program with my in Valley at the time. So we was just taking a creative space where we could focus on that. And we had this beautiful rental house and we're sitting out in the balcony in the hot tub. And we can see like the the stars across the sky. And Sedona is so beautiful. All the we can see all the red rocks around us. And then moving everything and it was just gorgeous. And he sent me said, um, she said, so I just put your arm out like this. And I didn't I didn't know what she was talking about. She goes, okay, now just like just like put your hand on your arm like this. And then she said, what what's inside you? What's what's in there? And um, and I never really thought about that. And it's what I touched and I tuned in. I was like the universe. Like inside me, and soon as she brought my weirdest I can see like, oh yeah, it's there's an infinite expansion entire universes within here. And she said, yeah, that's spare mine. Wow. It's like, okay, so I can have that experience, but we've to to build a live in that space all the time is is uh is different. Having the kind of miracle moments is great, but how do you make your whole life centered around that? You know, that's kind of the the next challenge. Wow. Yeah. He saw me. So when you so you experience this moment, she introduces it to you and then you go, bingo, there's more bringing this to the world even further, bringing us to the world even more. And it launched this week in Japan. Yeah. Yes. And has it already launched in the States or is it coming? Put it launched to the States January last year. We took our first script. We had actually it's kind of when we had 1111 people side up. So we took this. I believe training. And then we we didn't open back up until quite late in the year. Actually on November 11th, we opened up for everybody to come through again. Because I really needed the time to now that we had students there to see, okay, how is this offering affecting people? And how do we, do we need to adjust any to kind of make make it more graceful or smoother? And all of our students, one thing we do, it's kind of unusual is we sell the program, the fight we training. But once people graduate, we do free live calls every month. Because we know that energetically, everybody needs a place to come back to and touch base and come back to the fabulous. Yeah. And and at first, we were like, I guess we should do a membership. And then at some point, we're like, actually none of that really matters to us. Our goal is to help people to get the energy moving. And we don't want people to miss out on that because, you know, they don't have money at the moment or, you know, whatever. So let's just make it free. We'll figure out some other way to make money. All the way. And so that's space, having that space each month to tune in to bring everybody back. It took quite a while that kind of stabilized until we kind of got into a group and like, oh, this is this is the group we want to be in, not answering everybody's questions, but in a space of supporting people sharing, doing some healing work, you know, and being able to come back into that that same vibration each month. Yeah. And how did you and your wife meet for those of, for those who are not aware of the story? This is a big story. Yeah. He's having a, we met his big coincidence. So I'd been invited to Japan to teach at the time I was traveling and teaching channeling workshops actually. And so they invited me to Japan to do a series of workshops over maybe three or four weekends and doing healing work. Yeah. A lot of people. And in Sedona, as I was driving, driving the day before, driving on the street, I saw a friend hitchhiking picked him up to give him a ride into the town. And he said, Oh, if you're going to Japan, you should meet my friends. I bet two friends there. And he gave me a business card. And I didn't think much about it. But somehow the cards were to stay at the top of the stack in Japan. Everybody gives you a card here to kind of stay on the top. All my teaching was done. I called the number in the card. It was he sent me his friend, Kiko. And so we were set up. We're going to have lunch. And then she said, Oh, I'd like to bring my friend. He sent me along. And as soon as she said he sent me his name, I could see her energy. They're just like, Oh, this is super bright, beautiful. I couldn't believe it. It's like an angel. And I was like, Wow. Yes. Bring, bring her. And then up and then until it was back a few days later, when we got together and my guides are talking to me the whole time before I met her talking about the relationship and what, you know, as I can see what we were going, right, with the potential lives with his family. But I never met her. I haven't seen a picture of her. I haven't talked to her. I haven't emailed with her. I know nothing. I've heard of some friends that are named one time. That was it. But that was enough. That was enough. And then, yeah, I'm standing outside the restaurant and I'm thinking this sort of logical things like, I've never met her. I hope she's cute. The real simple things. And then she came up the escalator and just blew me away. I just couldn't believe it. Even better in person than I could imagine. And it just, you know, I was all in right from the first, if you see photos of our first meeting, it wasn't even a date. It was just a lunch with a friend. It looks like we're a couple already. Wow. It's amazing how energy moves. Like, your boat, it was alignment, right? Yeah. And did you speak Japanese? No, I didn't. Yeah, we pretended we were going to get together for business after that. But we couldn't work out an interpreter. So eventually finally said, look, I don't care if there's an interpreter. I just want to see you. Where do you mailing through a friend? You know, I said, I just want to see you again before I leave Japan. And so we said at this date, we went to Yokohama to hang out in the park and all we could, I can say Konichiwa, you know, Jeff Rihale and Desi. Hi, I'm Jeff. And she could say hi, I'm Hisami. And that was it. The words, I know best best state ever. So, you know, if you if you really are excited about connecting with somebody, like you really feeling that love and passion and enthusiasm and you want to connect with somebody and you don't talk like magic happens. Just it's just amazing. Oh my gosh. No, we, you know, we both see energy and feel energy. So we didn't have that language in common. Mm-hmm. So, but as far as words yet, really nothing. So, and you must be very proud of this work so much so that you are, you're translating, you're speaking for Hisami, who, with our audience. So you're there to interpret her work and what this in Japan, you're still doing the program with the launch. So you're doing the classes. How often are the classes for in Japan? Yeah. So our programs the same in the US and Japan. It's a, there's a lesson every day about it starts out. For instance, maybe 20 minutes and after that it goes down to 10 to 15. And so for five weeks, there's just a lesson every day where you watch video, you tune into the energy. We give you something to do throughout the day to practice kind of integrate the materials. And it's mostly a solo journey. You know, there's a little entity of people want to use it. But for the most part, once people get in, they realize, this is, this is me getting to know me. And sometimes it's helpful to reflect off others, but mostly everything I, I need everything I'm doing here is within. And then we kind of people up after the five weeks, then people come into the live calls where we get to circulate the energy together live. And it's really, really wonderful. But it's funny. You said interpret free summary, but I'm not fluent in Japanese. So we have an interpreter still. I'm still not fluent in Japanese. So, yeah, the interpreting that I do is I interpret from spirit mind to material mind from Japanese to English. So, so he's talking. And my job in the training is a lot of video me on camera in the training where I'm saying, okay, when I first heard this, I was sure I understood it to me in these things. And then everybody's like, probably nodding your head because it's the natural thing you'd think if you've been through different kind of spiritual studies and self-help classes and so on. And then I say, but actually that I learned later that's completely not what she's talking about. Oh, wow. I miss so it's kind of funny because almost the entire journey I'm talking about, here's where I misunderstood what he's saying. So, I'm like, this is quite a different role from my usual like I'm the authority on energy, right? And I'm just telling everybody how it is. I'll make great experiences and teaching. Now I'm on the other side saying, okay, gotta be humble. It's been wonderful. Yeah. Well, how does I know if speaking for like my own journey, it's been, it wasn't something that I got in the beginning. You know, it didn't just get it with a light bulb moment like, okay, kind of going like what he saw me said is like going from what the two minds coming from here to there and going in the middle because as like you mentioned, it's a little difficult because to get to that point where you can be still and be okay with the silence. And because that monkey mind likes to just go and go and it's uncomfortable. It's like, wait a minute. I'm hungry. Wait a minute. Why meditate? Wait a minute. Too busy. And it's for your program that you have in collaboration with his army. How does someone who's so used to like, you're mentioning like the regular 95, the hustle and rat race with life and how does someone with a program kind of like get to that place of of being able to get right in that middle, right in that sweet spot and be still. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's um, it's it's interesting because in in the spirit mind training, you remember, you've got two minds. So you don't and you do have to be able to calm the this material might down enough to be able to have a higher perspective, but you can also have both at once. So it's just with observation starting people start noticing the first week actually talk quite a bit about emotions. And how the, you know, the way that energy is on the planet right now, it's really stirring up our emotions kind of poking our heaviest energies because those have to come out. They have to release. Hmm. The wise which like, raise and vibration. And we don't really have a choice. We're all coming up in vibration right now because the whole planet is coming up. So it's not like, um, like do you want to or not? I'm going to make a choice. Like everybody's being pulled up. The choice we have is, am I going to do it in a graceful way? Or am I just going to cling to my old ways until it breaks me? No, I'm talking about the universe, right? So I'm like, I can't but I can certainly make it hard myself. And so the the first week is about just noticing the emotions and just just observing not changing anything. Just like, oh, look, I'm, I'm really upset right now. Oh, look, I'm happy. Oh, just starting to have that space of observation without judgment. Hmm. As judgments all here, this is just part of our material. I did just like, what's good or bad or right or wrong. You know, it's this sorting algorithm has to do with the material world. It's kind of a survival mechanism. But that doesn't exist in unconditional love. This is true. What inspired Housami to do this work to go into this as a career? And though you mentioned a story where she always had this innate, you know, knowing, but what made her go like follow this passion and to want to dedicate her career, her life into helping people. Yeah, that's a fun question. So I don't know if she actually ever decided to do it or not. She kind of just was living her life. And at some point at so many, she was working with friends or family or whoever was interested. She was always helping people. And at some point there were enough people that it just sort of became like she needed a space where people could come. She needed, you know, she was doing sessions. And then the people were needing more. She's like, okay, I guess we can have a, you know, we'll just get a room log in the same room so I can tell you kind of share it all at the same time. And you know, it just sort of evolved. It wasn't something she set out to do. Wow. It just like the information was being pulled through her. And she was, you know, allowing it. Allowing it. It chose her. It chose her. It's funny. And that way she, I kind of similar in that sense, like I was a software engineer all the studying about energy work and intuition and everything was just for fun. It was just curiosity to make life interesting. And, you know, I wanted to understand how things worked. And in some ways, I think the intuition part was I wanted to know like what was right. So now I can kind of laugh about it. I know that, you know, right is subjective. I kind of want to know the right answer. And so intuition seemed like a way to get to that right answer. And like some magic thing I could turn on right now, it's no the right way to go. And but I didn't ever plan on teaching it. In fact, I said many times I will never teach. You know, I was like even in a group of friends or at work, I was terrified to speak in front of people like on stage or anything. But I it just is, you know, people were asking me to teach. And then at some point is like, okay, this if this is what it's supposed to happen, it's it's okay. Like I'll I'll grow, I'll learn, you know, I'll get out of face my fears, you know, whatever it takes. And then it just sort of kind of snowballed. So if it was up to you, you would have never gotten on stage. You would never have, you know, you wouldn't be teaching, but it was it was just greater than you, right? Greater than don't the box that you wanted to kind of like stay in like I know, I want to stay in this box. It's really comfortable right here. Yeah, it's yes and no. So I think all of us have this like what we consider to be our comfort zone doesn't stay comfortable for long. So like comfort is usually about like in my case, like there's, you know, I have fears. And if I try to create a life where those aren't getting hooked very often, I can do that and everybody can probably make a living and do that and so on. But it's not very satisfying. It's kind of a small existence compared to who we want to be. And so the that comfort zone at some point became excruciatingly uncomfortable where I would, you know, I'd go to my, I had this nice 100 year old home that I bought and kind of fixed up and put some additions on and then I was, I'd leave my nice home, drive my nice card, my nice cushy job to make my nice salary. I didn't really have to work that hard and absolutely hated it. It was like, sure. Not like, how can this be torture? I'm, I've succeeded at the American dream and I hate it. And that's that's kind of the wake up. I was like, okay, this can't sustain. This kind of like, so I just, at that point, I was just like, okay, I'm open to whatever's next. And um, and my guidance by then was really clear. I was talking to my guides every day. I just had a conversation and and I could, I could feel that my first question was, okay, if we're going to change what's the timeframe? That's a question. Most people forget to ask, which I'd recommend everybody asks first, like, what's the timeframe for this change? And I heard two years. I was like, okay, all right. So I don't really need to, I don't really need to do anything. But I'm going to say yes right now. So yes, I'm in for the change. And then let's just kind of see how it unfolds. That's pretty brave. You know, because you've got the comfortable home, comfortable career, comfortable life, a comfortable existence. And then you realize like, you're suffering. You're not happy. But a lot of people rather continue, you know, year after year, and that suffering, they could, they could, after they could just end that suffering and not changing, it's kind of brave to actually go, okay, tap into that intuition and go, okay, I want more. It was, yeah, it was definitely scary. I don't know about brave, but it was definitely scary. So I think it's brave. But yeah, thank you. But it's, I would encourage everybody to consider that though. Like the places where you're uncomfortable, like for me, the hard thing to do would have been to not change. Like the idea of continuing to, to like not be fulfilled or to not to just feel uncomfortable, like something's wrong, but I don't know what it is. Japanese, they have a word for it. It's called Moia Moia. But English, we don't have a word for it. It's just like this, like something's not right. I don't know what it is. It's kind of like under my skin. It's like, you know, so it's feeling we get. And, but I was like, I can't live with that. I just, I just can't, even though everything looks perfect from the outside. You know, bills are paid, everything's moving upward. And I'm on track in the way that I'm supposed to be, you know, supposedly. It's like, that was the, that was scarier than change. The scary part was, I'll be like this. And 10 years. Actually, it's funny. You're bringing a lot of interesting old memories that I don't share much. When I was working at Sun Microsystems at the time. And I, we'd hit my 10-year anniversary. And they gave me like a little gift. It was like a pair of binoculars or something. And I remember getting it. And instead of thinking, this is great. I get some binoculars. I mean, one that, you know, I can buy that if I need them. That's not a big gift. But, but my thought was, if I don't change in 10 years later, I'll be getting the 20, I'll be sending the same share, deleting the same emails, talking to the same people, having the same feeling. And I'll be getting the, I don't know, telescope. I don't know what you're going to get for 20 years, right? Oh, wow. That's terrifying. That's terrifying because I don't have an infinite amount of time here. But if I don't change 10 years later, I'll still be here. And I'm not happy here. If I'm honest, I'm just not happier. And I was like, I want to go. That's like, I was like, that has like somethings has to change. And, um, yeah, but I guess the bright part is, um, listening to that intuition and then letting letting yourself follow it, even though you, you know, we never really know where we're going. Even even though I have great intuition, I didn't really know how it was going to work out. I just had a feeling. I feel like, this is my next step. Okay, I'm just going to step and do it and find out. It's okay if it's wrong. But if I never step in, I will never know. Yeah. It's really, I call it brave. And I'll tell you why because I've, I just witnessed so many people, I witnessed, you know, people in their 60s and 70s and 80s. And they are unhappy. But they are not willing to make a change. And they just kind of like live with regret. Like these are individuals that I know that are in my family. And I have friends that are in that age group. And they kind of, they just like live year after year. And just they just stay with that. And because they're, they don't feel, it's the fear. They just, they just stay in that special that comfort. And I call it great. Yeah, the comfort of discomfort. Yeah. The comfort of discomfort. Yeah, that's a tagline. But, but yeah. And so I call it brave for any person, including you to be able to, to feel it burning in you and to go, I mean, just not okay with this. And I'm okay with making a decision. And even if it's like not the best, even if I fail, like even if it doesn't something that's going to work out that way, it's going to like lead me down a path to where something will work, something. Because I will be the change that makes it work, right? Yeah. And when you do that, when, you know, when we open ourselves up to that space, it's sure it's scary, but it's also so exhilarating. And like, like something comes alive, comes back alive that we've let sort of like die down, you know, some part of our spirit, our enthusiasm, our love for life and our passion. It's like, is that starts to spark again? The fear kind of, I don't know if it ever goes away, but it becomes unimportant. It's just like a little background music to our song, you know, it's, it's okay. Like you want to have a little tension. It's good. Yeah. But it's not the melody anymore. It's like sort of, you know, something that's adding flavor. And that's the thing that's driving the steering the car. But yeah, it's really wonderful. Yeah. That, that time when things were changing was so spectacular. Like I got this fantastic moment where I just went, is about two years later. And so I kind of had a feeling something was going to change. And I went with my friend Ken down the CR teacher Michael tomorrow. He was teaching in Sedona and I'd never been there and Ken said, hey, let's drive down, check it out. Sounds like a fun weekend. And, and just before we even went and heard the town were just driving down the canyon from Flagstaff towards Sedona. And I, the energy hit. I was like, whoa, I think I'm moving to Sedona. And I've never, and I hadn't even been there yet. You can see on my life, right? I hadn't even got into town. I was just on the edge. You know, we were still like half hour away. And, and we drove in and I was just blown away the whole time I was there. I, yeah, I was just getting, this is perfect. And I attuned in to do some yoga and meditation one day. And I was asking the energy of Sedona. I just tuned in and said, why are you calling me here? And this beautiful woman's voice said, come here and be healed. I heard, started healing practice and said, come here and be healed. And I was like, okay, I, I need that. I accept. And a month earlier, I didn't, you know, out of the blue a month earlier, that house that I've been fixing up, everything was all perfect. I'd woken up in the morning and sang a little of my guides. And I said, we want you to put the house on the market. And I was like, why? Everything's perfect now. And I said, we want you to put the house on the market. So my guidance never has the explanation why it just has what, what to do. And I was like, all right, well, I don't want to sell it. So I'm just going to list it high. Right? I'll put it on the market. I'll play that game. That was like, I'm going to, I'm going to do what my guidance says. But I'm not always, yeah, I'm not always an agreement. So I'm just going to write. So I put on the market. I wasn't thinking about it. Nobody, you know, contacted me at all. I got to sit down. I did that meditation. I heard, you know, come here and be healed. I took a deep breath. I did a little energy work in the house to like clear all my energy out. So I'm all kid, let it go. And less than an hour later, I reeled your calls. We've got a full price offer. I buy a lunch that we're under contract by lunch. Like again, at the time it was taking several months for houses to sell and Denver. And mine went very quickly. First offer, full price, out at the door, signed within a few hours. And so I mean, Sedona, I'm like, I guess I really am moving to Sedona. Pretty much. For me, you know, that's it. And so, and I went back and I'm thinking, I don't understand how this is going to work because I have a full-time job in Denver. So, but I'm on the right. I'm okay. We'll just see what happens. You just, you just trusted all the way through. Yeah. Yeah. I do trust my guidance. That's one thing that I have going for me. It's like, when I get guidance, I just trusted. The reason I trust is because I go for it. And so I've learned over the years which parts guidance and which part is just wishful thinking. How does like your wife's program, his son needs program teach people or help when you yourself, you're trusting your guidance, your intuition, I meet a lot of people that are not trusting their intuition. They don't trust themselves. When it, when they're making a decision, they will ask someone next to them, you know, their, their spouse, their friend, what do you think I should do? Do you think I should get that one or that? What do you think? And sometimes I will turn to that person and I'll ask the person, what do you think? What do you want? And they kind of, you know, and they kind of are afraid. They're timid. And I see people that don't trust themselves. So how does the collaboration that this program that you both have, how do you help people to be in it? Like trust themselves. Ah, that's a good question. That's some so when you, when you look at kind of the stages we go through, like as we're evolving, kind of right now we're all going through this transition from kind of this just fully material world. Like when I was in my, just getting out of college, I was just enjoying like, I want to get a job and make money and have a cool car and some sunglasses and maybe get married and have kids. And you know, I'm just like, I'm just focused on those things. That's normal, right? And it was, and it was like later when I described where I was, I'd succeeded at that. Well, mostly, I mean, I was divorced by that. But I had a child and you know, and so I was, you know, really living the American dream rich. And it's, but it was in that kind of second phase where I was starting to notice, I'm doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do, but I'm not happy. Right? And so, and, and then I moved into the next stage, the reason I'm telling the stories. And, and after I was into the next phase where I'm, everything's aligned and like traveling around the world, I'm teaching intuition, I'm, I'm following my dreams. I, life is bigger and better than I could possibly imagine. But what I noticed was that sense that something was wrong didn't actually go away. So that was pretty scary. So I'm like, well, now I've really changed. My whole life has changed. Why does it still have a sense that something's not quite right? And the reason I tell the stories is that where that's where he saw me as teaching kicks in. She's mostly focused on this transition from this phase into the next one. Where, where my teaching is mostly focused on like, let's get people from the space of like, either I just want some new tools to manifest things or I want to figure out what I actually want and do that. And I need a little help with that. So my, my training was always just trying to get people up to the space of, you know, that I'd been to. And then when I met he saw me and I was watching her. I realized that she's peaceful in a way that I have in my best moments. But she's like, naturally all the time. Like serene and employees. And just full of love. She's just love is pouring out of her into everything around her all the time. It's just natural. And I've never seen anything like it. Like she kind of is in this state that I imagined I could get to if I did enough energy work. I like meditated enough. Somehow I'd get to this sort of enlightened state that I thought was there. But then I met he saw me. I'm like, so she's there all the time, but she's never meditated. She's never taken any spiritual training. What? She doesn't know any of the tools that I have. She has like, she doesn't have any of it. She doesn't pay any attention to the news. She doesn't list what other people are saying. She's just herself. And so there must be another road to, you know, the road at one is great. It's working for so many people in our love, but it's still one of my passions. But there's another road that doesn't, you know, this isn't necessary. It's in there. And so I'm always into shortcuts, right? I like shortcuts. Yeah, I mean, it's you. And so that's why I'd say his tummy is teaching is more about helping people with the shortcut. So you kind of even skip over that phase of, I'm uncomfortable. I'm not happy. So like in the spirit of my training, what you would do is you would just observe that you were feeling that. Ah, oh, I see. I'm, she calls them ABC and D's on. I'm in, I'm in B zone right now. I'm having B zone thoughts. Oh, interesting. Okay. And then we have a few little exercises you can do to kind of let those go on release. Like, oh, it looks, it looks like really, I really attached to things. Okay. So we can learn some exercise. We're kind of releasing the attachments. And, and the more you start getting into the spirit mind space, there's no more idea that I can't trust it. There's this, it's that sense of knowing this that you, like you actually know something even though you can't tell somebody why. Yes. So it's just bringing people into that space. Like if you can get into that space energetically, if you can learn to bring yourself back to that space, notice when you're outside and kind of come back to just keep bringing yourself back into that loving space. And the question goes away of, is this, can I trust myself? Can I trust the universe? The question is just not even there. Wow. It's like a really unique approach. I've never seen anything else quite like a, it's a great approach. It's in a way of having like this unconditional love, this energy like bathing, like you're bathing it. And the energy around you is bathing that also. Yeah. You know, and yeah, you're right on. And it's, it sounds really wonderful, but it's actually a little uncomfortable uncomfortable too. Because when you start moving into this space, you have to, like you start to see, I'll just talk for myself. Like as I started moving into this space more and more, I could see the places where I was stuck more easily. I could see the unnecessary pain and confusion that I was experiencing or even spreading sometimes. And I see, I could see that, that part of me, and it took a while to see that part from love. And not to like judge myself, just like it's totally okay. I'm having a human experience. That's why I'm here. And it's great. And I'm doing my best like everybody else. And it's, it's okay. Like there's no, like I don't have to be perfect. And but that, that was a new idea. Because my life got being perfect, right? Yeah. That's what we're taught. That's what we're conditioned. Yeah. And that's why we're learning from the outside world. What's, what's this perfect mean? Everybody, because everybody else should agree that I'm perfect. That's probably the important thing, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. But you start to shift out of it. It's like, oh, wow. Everything, all the ways that I've been sorting my life and prioritizing that hard necessary and are actually probably causing misery and happiness. Whoa. It's a little, it's kind of a hard feel to swallow it first. So you have to kind of sneak this where it is. But then once you get in, you're like, but it feels so good. I'm so happy one. That's based on love. Then you kind of come back out. But I'm, I'm sort of judging myself and other years and like, okay, it's fine. It's fine. Come back in. Oh, it's, it's really interesting because, you know, I, you know, a lot more about the Japanese culture than I do. I don't pretend that I know even a fraction of what, of what you're exposed to. But the Japanese culture, the Asian culture seems like they're, like if we in a Western world care about being perfect, you know, and, and, and doing things in a perfect way and, and having things, getting results, and being in Japanese people are just so much more so. And, and if we're hard on ourselves, I would imagine a Japanese person or in the Asian culture wanting to be, you know, getting it right, getting like perfect grades, straighties, and then having life just perfect. And, and that, and to be in a place, it's kind of you kind of are hard on yourself. You know, when you are not falling through and his saw me, how does, how did she, or how to use interpret her, not putting herself through that place of, of torment, and instead showing like love to the side. Yeah. I think that, yeah, that's really insightful. I think that he's having growing up. And in one sense was, like, heard, like, just being alive, being by yourself, being connected, with everything was really wonderful, but interacting with people in these systems that we have never made sense to her. And she said there was a time probably around high school age where she tried really hard to fit in. And she's like, I just, I want to be like a normal oblivious person, but she just couldn't have never worked out. You know, she couldn't, she couldn't turn it off, you know. And, but you're right about Japan. People here are, are much more, I would say, driven to like, not, you know, to be kind to others. That's a really nice one actually, being driven to be kind to others, but also to be, to be perfect, to achieve, to accomplish things. I saw it in the state some, but I didn't really grow up in that culture, like where I was, I was encouraged, but I also knew that if I was, you know, I was, I was usually the top student. And I didn't tell anybody, because that was a recipe for getting beat up, right? Like, you didn't want to be, where I went to school, you know, you wanted to kind of be a rebel or, you know, like, be cool. That end. But that's not so, like here, I think being smart seems like it's, like, a required or something, you know, it's, it's like really strong. But he saw me, I don't know how, how she did it. I mean, the, the story she tells are all pretty funny. Yeah, it's, it's always about her banter with the, the teachers and the adults and, and just seem what was really going on. And they're just asking them innocently, like, I don't really understand why you're saying that, because these things are here all true. And you don't even believe that yourself. Where are you teaching us that? Like, I can't, what is going on? Like, she was always just shining light in on the truth everywhere. And it probably just made everybody totally crazy. Yeah. You know, you, you don't like the truth sometimes. Yeah, you probably crazy. Or they just love to do and, and just protected her a little bit. Like, okay, this child needs a little bit of extra protection, because she's right. But she's not going to fit in very well. I need to like, I see, we need to help her out in a bit. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, nothing. I just said yeah, so fun. I really love, really love you, Sally. It's so fun to be with her. It's amazing. She just, she owned her truth, even if it's not status quo, even if it's not accepted, she owned being able to, to not wanting to fit into that mold and to honor herself, right? And so I don't think she really had a choice. I think like, just from knowing her information just comes through her, she can't stop it. Just like she can't manufacture it. If you ask her a question on the spot, like, what is spirit mind? She'd be like, I don't understand. What? But, but if you, but if you give her a, if you're talking to her and you need something, the information will come through and she just won't be able to stop from telling you. So it's kind of, she's just a really like a channel all the time. Yeah. Oh my goodness. An allowing source to be able to flow through her and to share her message. And this collaboration that you both have, Jeffrey, thank you so much for being able to bring this message to us. And I, wow, you've given me a lot to think about and be inspired what for your stories. And also, his, Tommy, it's amazing. And please tell everyone where to find this work on your website and we'll also share it in the show notes. Okay. Sure. Yeah. So the spirit mind training you can find on spiritmind.com. And we're also just getting rolling on social media or starting to put out some fun free stuff to kind of like tease people into the spirit mind space, you know, to kind of just an agent way energetically help people to come in. Because not not everybody wants to take a five week program, right? But everybody, little inspiration and, you know, 60 seconds on Instagram or something, you know, so we're just trying to put out more and more free stuff. But the website has all the information spiritmind.com. If you're, if you like what I've been talking about with spiritmind, I would definitely steer you that direction first. However, if you're a person that's, that seems kind of boring or you're wanting to learn some energy tools or, you know, it doesn't really matter where you are. I've got something that can help. So the energy work I do you can just go to I'm Jeff Rehlin.com or Jeff Rehlin.loveworks2. And that'll, that'll talk more about the energy work, which we didn't talk about too much here, but it's, if you're, if you love manifesting and that's kind of where the part of life that you're loving right now, that's great for you. If you're, if you're over here and you're like really wanting to look inward, if you're answers and just be feel fully connected and add a bay then that space of unconditional love, spiritmind.com. So that's kind of two directions. Bearmind.com. Jeffrey, I am honored. 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