Hi everyone! Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vizchen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change, for aggressive, in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Dr. Adara Lundry and I almost crossed past years ago. While she was earning from masters in education at Harvard, I was seriously considering joining that same program, driven by my passion for learning and education technology. I didn't end up pursuing it, but I'm glad that they brought us together through our shared interest in upskilling learning and the book, Micro Skills, which she co-authored with Dr. Riza Lewis, who joined me previously on the show. Dr. Lundry is now a Harvard emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of Micro Skills. Medicine was always in the picture. Her mother believed she had this for it. But it was two real life emergencies that confirmed her path. In this two-part series, we talk about mentorship that actually works. Why waiting to feel ready can backfire, and what it means to take ownership of your time and energy? Dr. Lundry doesn't just talk about communication. She models it. Let's get into it. Thank you so much, Vince, for having me. I'm very excited to be here and to have a fruitful conversation with you today. We've got a precious 45 minutes, so let's make the most of it. I invited you on my show because of the book titled Micro Skills. Your co-author, Dr. Riza Lewis, joined me some time ago. I just released her two-part series. We have such a great conversation that I thought why not bring you on as well to add a fresh, complementary perspective to the project? The first, let's start with you. Can you walk us through a bit of your personal story? Some key highlights of your career in life journey. Before we dive into the book, and is key messages? Thank you for that question, and I'm happy to share sort of the key highlights. It really does start when I was young. I grew up in a city called Rialto, California, which is an under-resourced area. I was not surrounded by doctors and lawyers and architects in my family or in my neighborhood. Education was something that my parents chose to invest in for us. I was not very athletic or popular, but I loved books. I studied often and ended up actually getting accepted to Berkeley when I was 15 and matriculated when I was 16. It was a young process for me. When I got there, I didn't understand anything about navigating the educational arena or even the workplace. I didn't even really understand the concept of a mentor. That wasn't a word that was used in my house growing up. My parents never asked me about my relationships with my high school teachers and how I'm networking and meeting people and building relationships. I really focused on academics. I think that hurt me a bit because, by the time I was in medical school, a lot of my peers were already networking and understanding how to build relationships with other professionals. I didn't really understand how to do that. It wasn't until probably the end of medical school residency that I really understood how to nourish relationships with mentors or coaches or sponsors, how to meet people, how to use those relationships to help others, and to also help myself. That bidirectional aspect of it was something that took me some time to learn. When I got to residency, I met a wonderful faculty member who just offered to mentor me and it was just a really great experience to understand the value of someone supporting me. I think I carried that relationship with me through the rest of my career because it inspired me to help other people. That's why I understand what it's like to not know how to navigate either an educational arena or a workplace and to feel like I have the potential to succeed but I don't have the strategy. I don't know how to leverage the resources around me. I think that's what really motivated me was that transition from being unsupported to supported and knowing what it feels like on both sides. And so I've spent the majority of my career as a faculty member at Harvard dedicating time to help early career professionals who are in the same scenario that I was in or was like, how do I find people to help me? How do I send an email? How do I deal with conflict? And a lot of that is inspired by my own personal struggle to figure those things out. Before we get into the book, I'd love to hear about your passion for medicine. What drew you to this area in the first place? You studied science, but at some point you made the decision to become a doctor. Why? And why emergency medicine specifically? My mom was initially a tech at a psychiatric hospital. So there was some early exposure to healthcare. She really invested in me and my siblings in regards to education. She worked two jobs to put us into private school. And she always aspired to have me as a doctor. So I think I was a little bit brainwashed as a child because she would always lift my hands up and say, you have the hands of a surgeon, you have the hands of a surgeon, you always say that to me. I remember when I was a kid. I actually, I'm not a surgeon, so it's really funny. But that conditioning actually set the stage that I could achieve something that is challenging and that requires a lot of sacrifice that requires intentionality. And so I think I was just sort of pushed along in the direction of healthcare. But I think what really sealed the deal for me was actually when I was a college student, I was walking to class and I saw a bunch of people in a circle. And there was a man on the floor who was unresponsive. And everyone was just standing around. I was like before the age of everyone having cell phones. And I was just sitting around watching and I don't know where this came from because I had absolutely no known skill set here. But I just walked into this area and I was like, oh my gosh, call 911. And someone will go grab him some water. I looked at his wristbands and I saw this word diabetes on it. I knew a little bit about diabetes, but not a lot. And I knew I had something to do with sugar. I was like, I don't know if his sugar is too high or his sugar is too low. And there, held his hand, we gave him some water because as he came back as far as consciousness, we gave him some water and I think someone brought some juice. And I just held his hand and I was like, you're going to be okay. The ambulance arrived and he was taken away. The next day, I came to class because I was on my way to class. It was actually our first day or second day at school. And there was this large, huge bouquet of flowers on my desk with a no. And it was from him. that thank you so much for just being there for me when I was literally at my worst. I will never forget that. And I was so shocked because I don't even feel like I did anything. I was just there. But I think that really was a moment that I wanted to have again. Like I just, it was something that I wanna offer that to more people. And I guess selfishly, I want to feel good about myself as I do it, right? And so I think that was really what inspired me when it came to emergency medicine. I was actually still in college a few years later and I was cooking something, I think it was like asparagus. And I had, I didn't know how to cook. But I was, I had hot oil burning or boiling. And when I lifted up a towel, the hot oil splattered all over my arms and my chest. I ended up having first and second degree burns all over my body and it was incredibly painful. And I remember laying on the floor for hours because I didn't have a phone to call anyone. I was in too much pain to move. And just thinking, oh my God, I'm literally here all by myself and I have no one here to help ease the pain. And I think when it comes to emergency medicine, you really are there when someone is in the most pain. They're having severe infections, they're having strokes, they're having heart attacks. It's like the worst moment. And I really liked the variety that it brings as we're taking care of people and what they feel like is their worst possible moment. Using my own personal experiences of being there for someone and not having someone there for me, it just really inspired me to take on that task. Your co-author, Dr. Riza Lewis, is also in E.R. Is that how you two first connected through practicing, teaching, working together before you team up for the book project? Yes, and this relationship is a perfect example of the most successful people I know or the most connected people I know. And when I was looking for jobs in Boston, someone I asked a mentor of mine at the time, I'm looking for jobs in Boston. Do you know anyone who's worked at these institutions? And so she was a name on that list. And so I spoke with other people, just like simple conversations that were helpful. And then I spoke to Riza and she gave me some guidance about navigating life in Boston as an academic physician. We had a conversation that sort of ended and then we had another conversation overseas, actually. We just happened to be at the same conference for emergency medicine. And then a third conversation was when actually things started to change a bit, where we talked about my journey with mentorship and how I wanted to build a brand around mentorship. And she gave me some strategic advice. And at the end of the conversation, she said, but there if you ever want to write together, let me know. And I think Vince, I'm sure you have had this before where you have offered your services to people and they didn't follow up. They didn't take you up on it. And someone might have offered you services or support and you didn't take them up too. And so this was an example of how I said to myself, Riza is a well-known established writer and she's much more senior than I am as far as just understanding the workplace. But this is a great collaboration to start with. And I did take her up with it and I drafted articles together. And that's really how the relationship started. It was that initial door opening and also me seizing the opportunity. Both of those things have to happen. I've published two books myself, both in Chinese. So a no first hand, how tough the writing process can be. And honestly, co-authoring a book seems just as intense as co-funding of startups. You're building something from scratch together with all the passion, but also the potential, the tension when visions don't align. Writing yourself is already hard. But adding in two authors with daily jobs, deadlines, editing, publishing, etc. That's a marathon. So first, I really admire how you and Riza pull it off. But tell me honestly, now that the book is out, when you look back, how was the process? How long did it take? Were there any top moments that made you wonder if it would come together? And how did you to navigate those? That's a wonderful question and it's a very important question. I'm actually married to a CEO, so I know that there is a lot of similarity between co-founders and co-authors. It's incredible actually. And I think when we started the process, I was not thinking about this relationship as co-founders of a product or of a business. Of course, now I see it that way. But in the beginning, it was like a natural progression from the articles. We were writing articles together for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company. In fact, we wrote an article for Fast Company that was titled Six Things to Look for when selecting your business partner. Because we just felt we were witness to many failed relationships. We have taken part of relationships that probably weren't as optimized as it could have been. And so we just had that experience you wanted to share as doctors, things that we have learned. And when we tried writing the book, it was just like, we should write a book because it was the next step after writing all of these articles. But I don't think we understood at that time that writing a book is truly building a product, marketing, ails, distribution. Like all of these things, beyond just the actual transcription of words from your brain onto the paper. At least I did not understand the depth of all that. Maybe at the surface level I got it, but not how I understand now. The entire process is a learning process. You're learning the language of the literary world, right? I didn't know the difference between an agent and editor of publishing house, what it means to go to auction. All of those things was new and learning is hard, but I'm glad I had someone to help along the way. Because I think it would have been more challenging on my own. The actual process of writing is challenging too because as you mentioned, we have different schedules and we're like, voiling the manuscript back and forth where I might send it to late at night because I have three children. And I'm putting them to bed. I'm waking up very early in the morning, but I can't write early in the morning because I have kids to get ready for school. So research at a lot of her writing in the morning. I just couldn't do it then. And so I think that back and forth actually played to our advantage so that we had different times to see the manuscript. We also have different perspectives because Risa is 15 years older than I am. And so she has had much more experience working closely with baby boomers and Jinx. In my position, I have a lot of experience working with millennials and Jinzzi. So I think that really helped because we had a different degree of depth with those different generations. So I think the differences and the learning was helpful for us to get through this process. Now we're in this stage where we're learning, like, okay, it we're almost at a year. How do we continue to market this book? She and I entered this process knowing that there were many other books that we were gonna write. She had her own list of books that she wants to write. I have my own list of books that I've always wanted to write. And some of them are like novels, right? And so I'll be doing those alone. But I think no matter what we have this foundation together, if we wrote our first book together, I want her to continue on as a writer and I support all of her journey going forward. And I think she feels the same way. And even though we might not write a book again together, I don't know maybe I want the best for her as she continues on through her writing. When I prepped for Risa's interview, I sent her a couple of questions. I just reread that email before this call. And one thing I wrote stood out. I see both of you as career doctors. You are medical doctors, yes. But now you're writing a business book open to all generations and industries. You men poor, died and help people create and build better careers. That's why I call you career doctors. Before we dive into the book content, I want to touch on something unique in your background, your debris from Harvard's School of Education. I actually almost went there myself. We could have been classmates. For me, learning has always been a big theme in my life. I love books, I write books. I'm driven by intellectual curiosity. And I've worked with education technology companies because of that. So I'm curious, what motivated you to pursue that education degree? What did you take away from it? And how has that helped shape your work? Maybe even this book? I am someone who wants to get as much schooling as possible for the rest of my life. Like, I'm certain I'm going to get one more degree before I die, at least. And so I loved the classroom environment. In fact, after this call, I have a class. I just love taking classes. I like the group learning. I like sharing ideas. I like critique. And so I am probably addicted to just that classroom environment. And I actually miss it when I'm not actively taking some type of a class. I got a general masters of education. So there's an alternative that I could have received, which is a masters of medical education. I have this mindset of go bigger so that it's more applicable, more generalized when it comes to this sort of a degree. Because I knew that eventually there's a chance that I lead medicine all together, or I lead academia all together. And a masters of general education would be more widely understood than a master's of medical education. And so when I was getting the degree, I actually focused on technology, innovation, and education. And I remember taking classes at the business school and just learning a lot about startups. And I'm thinking again about ed tech. And I was just like, I'm so glad I got this degree. And I don't want to downplay the value of medical education because there's certainly value. But I think for me, thinking bigger, broader, deeper, and trying to just have a wider audience, a general degree made more sense for me. I wanted to learn about education because I just think I love teaching. I love learning and I love teaching. And I think those things come naturally to me. So it was just an easier first step as far as another degree than trying to go get a master's in computer science. I was at that time, I was working clinically. I was getting a fellowship in ultrasound so the technology that we used to look at your heart or the baby. And I was getting a master's in education and also a new mom during that time as well. I sometimes you just have to say, what makes sense? What won't be causing too much stress to my life? And I think that was a degree that brought a lot of value while not also taking away from my mental health. And that was really important for me. So I have no regrets. After I finished the degree, I actually went into tech for a bit. And I was a consultant for an ultrasound company and I was helping them build their software platform that they were going to use for their device. And so working with engineers and helping them with their user interface and experience and helping the sales team, all of that stuff I was doing. And I think I was very grateful that I chose that master's at that time because it was really transferable as far as the skillset. You clearly enjoy learning and you clearly enjoy teaching. How did you attain and the school of education inform your approach to writing this book and helping others grow into careers? I will say this. A lot of people have impeccable knowledge and in particular niche or craft and don't know how to teach it. And I think the biggest reason why they struggle with teaching it is because they make assumptions about their learners, what their learners know and what they're capable of learning. What I got from that master's at education and what I wanted to get was the skill set of taking large concepts and breaking them down into something that is easy to understand. I didn't want to be one of those teachers who is in the front of the classroom speaking to themselves. And the students are trying to follow along. I really wanted to learn how to engage people, how to tell stories, how to be multimedia as far as the stuff that I'm using in my lectures, how to collaborate with others as we're teaching, how to build workshops. So I wanted that depth of knowledge as someone who really loved to teach. When I was in residency, I had to give a lot of lectures and I definitely got some feedback. But I never had anyone sit me down and say these are the theories of learning. This is how we deliver information in a way that is evidence-based. I didn't get that type of education. I just got some on the fly feedback about my slides or about my hand gestures or my eye contact, but not like that deeper level of knowledge. And so when it came to selecting a master's of education, again, it felt like a natural next step because I loved learning and I wanted to learn more. But I also recognized that gap for myself as an educator where I had the enthusiasm but I didn't really have the evidence-based practices on how to best deliver complex information in a way that is digestible. And I think that master's of education really helped me in many ways do that. Less look at your book, Micro Skills. Reason mentioned is probably a collection of articles you both row over time. But it's also a pretty substantial book, not a short one, but any needs. So I'm curious, who came up with the title? What was the thought process behind it? I imagine it ties into the kind of impact you hope to make with the book. But I love to hear your perspective on how the title came to be. We had initially actually picked the name Chiseled. That was what the book was going to be called, Chiseled. I love that word. But we got some feedback that it was a little too vague, perhaps a little too, it might be considered too masculine up a term. Is it like someone who was like buff or, it just wasn't used well in the workplace. It didn't transfer over, I think, as a workplace word. And we got some feedback. That probably is not going to be the final word. And so I think we started thinking about what is it that we want for the reader to get out of the book. And I think this idea of Micro Skills comes actually from a term that I heard when I was training to be a doctor. So what happens often in medicine is you have to do this large procedure. Let's say we have to put a catheter in someone's neck. But that's like a 40 step, 50 step process. And so for each of those steps, you can really learn how to hold your fingers, how to hold the two being, how to position the patient. You can optimize each of those things. And a lecture I heard when I was a resident was actually titled Micro Skills for placing this catheter. That's what it was called. And I loved that title. And so when I was thinking about what word we could use, I went back to that lecture and I thought to myself, I remember that in that lecture, they weren't teaching the grand scheme of everything, but they were going into the minutia. These are the things you had never considered about this particular procedure. So I think we wanted that idea when it comes to the workplace, many of us want to be better at communication. Many of us want to be better at navigating conflict. But if you don't get into the weeds of it, then you can totally miss some really important skill sets. And so we really wanted to dive really deep into those critical actions and key aspects of developing these larger goals that many of us set. That's where we'll pause today. Adara walked us through the life moments that shaped her, from helping a stranger in an emergency to finding her own way into emergency medicine, mentorship and education. In part two, we go deeper into micro skills. How do we get into this? In part two, we go deeper into micro skills. How small, repeatable habits and practices can change the way we work, communicate and live. Stay tuned. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm Vizchen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.
