Why You Can’t Get Clients... | Matt Brockman | DSH #1901

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We're going to talk high ticket offers, making money online. This guy's generated over $4 million in sales off of high ticket coaching. Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, I appreciate you having me. Yeah, it's an interesting space these days, right? Trust is probably at an all-time low. You'd say? Yeah, like everyone, even like two or three years ago, people were saying we're in a trust recession, but I think it's just gets even worse as time goes on. Because there's so many people, because it's so easy now to throw together a coaching program, right? Put together a course, have some group calls or whatever. And it's easy for people to like not do it well and then burn a bunch of clients. And then now those clients are harder sales for the next offer they invest in because they're like, oh, I spent 10k with this last guy and you didn't give me results. Like his course sucked. He threw me in a group call with 100 other clients. I didn't get real support. And I feel like over the last few years that has kind of compounded over time, and it's getting harder and harder to sell people into high ticket programs because I mean, the secret is out. It's so easy for anyone these days to make and launch a high ticket program where there's a lot of backlash from that where it's way harder to gain people's trust these days. I only buy from experienced people. Because there's a lot of high ticket offers with young sellers these days that don't have the experience, their track record. If you have a really big track record, like your household name and the digital marketing space, those people are probably still fine. But for people who are just getting started out, maybe they're still under 100,000 a month. And they mean well and have a good product or service. It's really hard, especially for those people who are just lesser known to get people to a degree to a high ticket. 100%. Yeah. Because you need that trust now. You need to build that brand first. Exactly. You need a following. It used to be you could launch ads and no one knew who you were and you could make money instantly. I remember those days. Exactly. Yeah. You showed your revenue like a Shopify screenshot or whatever, Striped dashboard and people were like, oh, let me learn from this guy. Yeah. Now everyone's saying, well, you could have Photoshopped that Striped dashboard. Which people do. Yeah. And people are a lot more skeptical of. Even if you have like 100K studies and you have conclusive proof you've made like multiple seven figures through your immersion account or whatever, people still find a reason to be skeptical about it. That's just the internet it's become a place where you really have to prove it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's kind of frustrating. Yeah, it is. Because I remember a couple of years ago how easy it was, but now it's like there is a lot more effort that needs to be put in if you're going to sell a high ticket offer that involves any large amount of money up front. And that's why I kind of pivoted towards a new model where it's like less upfront or even nothing upfront, but like you only make money. I mean, we only make money if you make money. Yeah. And that's the model I'm even shifting towards. Yeah. Like I'm hiring an agency right now and I don't want to pay a retainer. Right. I mean, because I've heard the worst stories from that. Yeah. Like I've hired ads agencies in the past. I'm not going to name names or anything, but like they usually charge like an upfront flat rate, like the one I hired. I'm not, I'm going to make up the price point because yeah, but just for the purposes of this, like they charged around like 5K a month. Yeah. And they charged 5K a month regardless if you get results or not. Exactly. Right. And when I hired this agency, they literally spent two weeks to set up my ad account. Jesus, that takes like two hours. Yeah, exactly. It's something that takes an hour, but they spent two weeks. So I literally spent like $2,500 for someone to set up an ad account. So I understand why there's this trust recession is because of bullshit like that. Yeah. Because they're scaling so quick. They don't care about the customer. Yeah. Everyone's doing this whole churn and burn model because what I'm finding from all these like marketing gurus is like they, at the end of the day, their number one goal is to brag about their monthly revenue. They were like, oh, we're a figure marketing agency and that's where like that's what motivates them is to make those claims. But like the actual like client success is like low on their priorities. Yeah, it's irrelevant. Right. Yeah. They'll list a couple of them on the site as testimonials, but that's it. Yeah. And they'll have like thousands of clients and then maybe like, I don't know, 10% of them actually get real results, but the other 90% were essentially burned. And that's important when you're hiring someone to talk with their previous customers. Like when I'm hiring, I'm hiring any YouTube strategist, right, to get the YouTube views up and I'm like, who did you work with in the past? What podcast? And then I go and talk to these people. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's an approach. I mean, what I usually tell our prospective clients when they ask, oh, can we talk to who you previously worked with is like, I mean, imagine like you drive a car, right? Like you say you drive a Toyota, I don't know. Like would you want Toyota sending their entire mailing list out with your phone number saying, hey, you can call Johnny whenever you want and ask him if he likes his car or not? No. I don't know. Right. Yeah. So I'm with you on that. I wouldn't provide the whole client list. Yeah. But I would mention like your top ones or a few that way if they want to, because I'm friends with these guys at this podcast space. Yeah. I think it's a little different with pods, but I get what you're saying for sure. Yeah. But it's like, because we do want to be as transparent as possible. It's like I would want people to talk to our successful clients and everything, but at the same time, it's like, I don't want to turn my most successful clients into salespeople. That's true. And annoy them. Annoy them. Make them feel harassed. Like there's these weird internet people asking them a bunch of questions every day. That's a good point too. So it's like, it's a double-edged trust, but we want to do it without making your current clientele feel weird about it. Do you ever think about the risk you didn't take buying Bitcoin early, investing after 2008, loading up on NVIDIA? AI is changing jobs. Markets are all over the place. Nothing feels guaranteed. And at some point, you realize no one's here. I'm going to save you. We're kind of the FOMO generation, but here's one thing you don't want to miss, protecting your future. If you're new to life insurance, you're not alone. Thankfully, I found select quote. For over 40 years, they've helped more than 2 million Americans understand their options and secure over $700 billion in coverage. As a broker, their mission is simple, to find you the right insurance policy at the best price. And they work for you for free. You can even get same-day coverage up to $2 million with no medical exam required. And even if you have pre-existing conditions, they work with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50% at selectquote.com slash dsh. Fade more than 50% on term life insurance at selectquote.com slash dsh. Today to get started at selectquote.com slash dsh. HUBBA HUBBA There it is. The feeling of food hub. HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of your favorite takeaways delivered to your door. HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of one app, one tap, and all your favorite restaurants in one place. HUBBA HUBBA Get that HUBBA HUBBA feeling when you order your favorite takeaways with Food Hub. Download from your app store today. HUBBA HUBBA If your team isn't using your CRM, it isn't working. Pipe Drive is a simple CRM. It's easy to use so you can focus on closing. Get 30 days free at pipedrive.com forward slash audio. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's gonna go towards the revshare profit share model instead of high ticket offer, right? Yeah, that's what I've noticed. A lot of people are pivoting to something like that. I know Cole Goren through the grapevine is doing a service model, something like that. Because I know I can get clients results. I feel very confident in that. I literally had a client make their first sale this past weekend. I heard about it. So I know we can get results, but I think the days of charging 15 to 20 grand up front to join a group program are gonna be gone soon unless you're like Grant Cardone or Hormozzi or a big household name like that. But I think the everyday marketer, I think those days are gonna be over pretty soon because there's just so much backlash from people getting burned from those types of offers. What do you think of IRL events? Do you see those coming back? Because I know during the pandemic they died out. But do you see that emerging now that AI is so hot? Do you think people want a personal approach? Yeah, I think live in person events are, there's always gonna be a place for that. Like I went to funnel hacking last year, February or was the last one. Yeah, it was packed. A lot of people were there. And that human connection is absolutely priceless. Like I had a back-end mastermind where part of the offer is that we'll meet in person in Vegas and do an event in Vegas. And people eat that shit up. People want to see each other in person and not just see each other through a Zoom screen. Yeah, I think the conference model is really tough. Like funnel hacking just had their last event, Grant Cardone is done with 10x growth con because you have to pay for the speakers. There's a lot of expenses. So I wonder if it'll shift to a more interactive approach, more like a workshop, like a Hormozzi style approach. Yeah. You know what I mean? More like hands-on, if that makes sense. Yeah, right. Because I get bored as shit at a conference honestly. Yeah, me too. I mean, you kind of get information overload when it's just speaker after speaker after speaker. It's like, all right, like when is lunch? For real. And it's very general advice for the most part. It's not like tactical stuff you can implement right away. Yeah. Unless you're out of mastermind, that's more tactical. But I think it's going to shift more towards community mastermind workshop style. Yeah, I agree with that. So that's what I'm doing. I'm doing a meetup in a couple months, which you can come to in Vegas. I appreciate that. It's going to be 200 people. You got to be doing seven figures plus a year to attend. I'm not charging anything. I just want to like connect people, give value, you know what I mean? Figure out how to make money on the back end somehow. Yeah, spill the reciprocity in it. Yeah. Because I was pretty impressed with the way Hormozzi did it with the workshop. Yeah. I mean, he's making crazy money off those. Yeah. Well, I mean, the live events themselves, they're just a giant funnel. Yeah. Like, I mean, with Russell with funnel hacking, like they make most of their profit from pitching their 25K program. Yeah. Same with Pace Moray. With Inner Circle too. And it's like, you show up to funnel hacking to get your ClickFunnels award and then they pitch you in the circle. Brilliant. It's the award itself as a funnel, right? No, it's brilliant because they get you all excited with your award. And then I did Hormozzi's workshops and then they have like three levels. Yeah. Like, I did the 5K workshop and then at the end of the workshop, they pitched on the next level, which was 15K at the time. Now it's 25. Yeah, now it's 25. And then they try to upsell me on the next tier up too, which I couldn't afford at the time. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, live events are definitely very powerful. I'm just curious like how they would work for someone who's not a household name yet. Because that's something tough to do if you're not, if you don't have a reputation already. You would need a lot of connections through powerful speakers and people that have experience with events to make it work, I think. Yeah, right. Also, it's a very tough sale. You're right. Because people come based off the room, like who's going to be there, what type of quality people who speak in, you know what I mean? Right. So that's a good point. Are you implementing any AI with your businesses? Yeah, we have, we use AI in a few different ways. We have this one service we use called Charli AI. The founder is Iggy. I can't pronounce his last name. I would embarrass myself. But yeah, it's essentially like an appointment set or AI. It integrates with GHL. And what we found when we used it for our own offers is that it always outperformed human setters. No way. So it calls you? It can do calls. And the voice has improved a lot since it first launched. I might hire this because I was looking for a setter now, but they want like 5%, 8% of your sales just to set the meeting. Exactly. And it mostly does SMS conversations with your leads. And then it also integrates with, they used to partner with Send Blue. They're partnered with Linknow so they can do the iMessage as well. Damn. But yeah, the beautiful thing about that is that it sets around the clock. So like if a lead ops into your phone on 3 AM, Charli is going to talk to them at 3 AM. Holy crap. And then you just wake up to book calls. That's brilliant. Because when you have humans, sometimes they've got to wait eight hours to hit the lead. Right. And like if you call someone in the US after 8 or 9 PM, you can get in trouble and everything. But if it's an AI, I mean, it kind of solves that issue. Wow. And what I love about AIs too is that they're not human. It's like setters, sometimes setters, their girlfriend their girlfriend breaks up with them or they're like, oh, like I got a traffic ticket. I got to go to court today. I can't work today. My son got sick. I can't work today. AIs don't do that. A lot of excuses. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to try that one out. Thank you for that. Yeah. That's cool. There's that. And then we also use Claude and ChatGPT a lot because our done for you offer. Like we're building everything for clients for scratch. Like we're writing their messaging, making it actually good. We're creating their offers. We're writing their webinars or VSS for them. We're building the entire funnel, all their email, all the machines. We do everything for them. And Claude and GPT are incredibly useful for that because we can create entire knowledge bases for each of our clients. No, it makes sense. Where it's like we upload everything from them, any books they've written, posts they've made in the past, YouTube scripts and content, past sales calls they've done. We can take the entire transcript from Fathom and just put it into the knowledge base. So it's like whenever we need to write more ads for a client or write a new version of their webinar or write an email for them, we have this entire knowledge base that just spits out perfect copy. So it saves us a ton of time. That's sick, man. Yeah, AI has been a game changer for sure. Yeah. Did you get Hormozzi's AI that he did on the book launch? I did not. No. The 18K one? No. Did you see that one? I didn't actually. He did a book launch and you had to buy like, I think 300 books and it got included with that. Was that for his money models? Yes. Okay. I wasn't able to watch that one live. So I missed that then. I think you did $100 million off that launch. Yeah. Crazy, dude. Insane. Dude's different. Yeah, he's next level, man. Yeah, I got a list of names here. I'd love to see what you think of these people. Yeah. I think I already know how you feel about Hormozzi, but Aman Ghaazi. Aman, I actually don't know much about him. So I can't really comment on that honestly. Yeah, he's got a younger crowd. I feel like yeah, a lot of younger kids. Grant Cardone. Yeah, I look up to Grant a lot. I know Grant kind of has a little bit of a rep for, I don't know, some people love him. Some people don't like him. He's very polarizing. I would agree with that. But I learned a lot from him in the sales side of things and I learned a lot of like financial advice from Grant as well when it comes to investing in real estate and because his whole real estate plan with the multi-families that he pushes is is the direction I'm going as I'm building my portfolio. But he also had like a lot of good things to say because he did a mastermind down in my aunt. I wasn't there, but I learned from people who were there and he talked about like sometimes you have to shut down a profit offer to make room for something even better, which is what I eventually did for my own companies where my very first business was a coaching program for trumpet players, but here I'm not. Super, super niche, but like we made it work. We made over $3 million with that offer. Damn. I failed out of trumpet class in middle school, I think. Oh, you played trumpet? Yeah, I was not good. I was terrible. I needed your course. Yeah, but we made $3 million with that, but it definitely hit a ceiling and like I have eight, nine figure ambitions. So it's like I wanted to eventually stop doing the B2C trumpet program and just focus on B2B type offering so I can reach my financial goals. And I ended up having to make a tough decision is to shut down this offer that was printing money because I tried to do both at once and it didn't happen. And I went from grant that sometimes you got to shut down something that works to make room for something that might work even better. Yeah, that must have been a tough feeling shutting down something, printing money. Yeah, it was tough, but honestly just my quality of life has increased ever since I shut it down. There's just less to worry about now. Yeah, it's such a niche market, right? Exactly. The cap on that would have been way less than what you're doing now. Yeah, and like the trumpet business was never my long-term goal anyway. It was my first company to learn how to run businesses and now that I've done it and I've proven results with an offer that's not selling sales or marketing courses. I scaled like a real offer. Yeah, stepping stone. Yeah, I think with your model now all it takes is a few big clients and you could hit that eight figure level, right? Yeah. If you're doing a rev-sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that makes sense. What about Andy Elliott? Yeah, Andy Elliott, he says a lot of things that make sense to me. He's a very tough, I mean that's his whole branding, is this big tough guy, very resilient. And I saw him speak. Do you ever think about the risk you didn't take buying Bitcoin early, and best thing after 2008 loading up on NVIDIA? AI is changing jobs, markets are all over the place, nothing feels guaranteed, and at some point you realize no one's here, I'm going to save you. We're kind of the FOMO generation, but here's one thing you don't want to miss, protecting your future. If you're new to life insurance, you're not alone. Thankfully, I found select quote. For over 40 years, they've helped more than 2 million Americans understand their options and secure over $700 billion in coverage. As a broker, their mission is simple, to find you the right insurance policy at the best price, and they work for you for free. You can even get same day coverage up to $2 million with no medical exam required. And even if you have pre-existing conditions, they work with companies that can help. Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50% at selectquote.com slash dsh. Save more than 50% on term life insurance at select quote.com slash dsh today to get started at select quote.com slash dsh. If your team isn't using your CRM, it isn't working. Pipe Drive is a simple CRM. It's easy to use, so you can focus on closing. Get 30 days free at pipedrive.com forward slash audio. Got FHL last year, and honestly, his speech was my favorite speech. Wow. Yeah. Like if I just went home after, I think he was like the first or second person too. That makes sense. Like if I went home and didn't come back after, I felt like I would have gotten my money's worth. But yeah, he has the whole story of how he had like Rocky Star. It's like he made some mistakes in his career as a lot of people do. But he was still able to overcome it and come out a better person and come back like building good offers that inspire a lot of people. Like I was very inspired by his story, and it's helped me a lot with my mindset, with my own personal issues that I've had, with business, personal, whatever. So yeah, he is definitely someone who I look up to. But like Grant, he's also a very polarizing kind of guy. Some people love Andy. Some people think he's a scammy used car salesman. I've noticed that with anyone in the hot ticket info space is polarizing. Ty Lopez, Grant Cardone, Andy Elliott. Well, I mean, it's a good point because like polarity kind of creates like the biggest impact and the biggest splash. You're much more likely to get noticed if you're polarizing. That's how I built my show, honestly. I've had on guests that are extremely polarizing. Yeah. I learned that from Dan Henry. I was a client of his and he talks a lot about it in his book as well. But I feel this is a huge reason why Trump is president. Oh yeah. It's because he's willing to say things that kind of go against the grain and piss a lot of people off. But look how much media attention he gets because of that. Yeah. So yeah, I think if you're being authentic, it's the best. Because even if you're authentic, but you're polarizing, you're just yourself. What are you going to say about it? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like you're putting on a persona. Yeah. And it's like you ultimately just have to come to terms with like some people are going to hate you. Like 50% of your market might hate you for being polarizing. Yeah. But I mean, you got to just be okay with that. You can't please everyone. Yeah. If you try it, please everyone, you'll please no one. I stopped doing that when I started the show. I realized it wouldn't work for my mental health. Yeah. Exactly. One hate comment used to keep me up at night. Yeah. And it's like I never was really bothered by it. I mean, maybe at a certain scale, I'm like, all right, there's a lot of hate comments in one day. Holy shit. But it's like, but when you think about like all the clients who you're helping and all the lives you're changing and the results they're getting, I mean, you tend to just be numb to it and ignore it because it's like, yeah, some random guy who works at McDonald's and has a pickup truck as his profile picture said something mean on my ad. Well, like, well, when I look at the hundreds of clients who are getting results, like you can say what you want. I'm helping people here. And that's the key. You need great service or product, right? Right. Or else the hate is justified if you're just scamming people. Exactly. And that's where I could see someone getting hate is a little justified when you're literally scamming people or saying things you're not going to do. Right, right. You know, but you're actually delivering quality. So. Yeah. I mean, if you're getting clients results and people are happy with the service, I mean, then fine by me if the price of that is a few haters. Yeah. It sounds like you've learned from a lot of people, a lot of mentors, a lot of books. What was the most impactful person or book or video that you can remember? Yeah. I mean, I've worked with a lot of mentors, a lot of coaches, read a lot of books. Early on in my development, I would probably say Dan Henry was my most impactful mentor, author, who I've read. I used to see his ad every day. Oh, yeah. He's been on the show too. Shout out to Dan. Yeah. He's in Dubai now. Right. Yeah, he's in Dubai. That's how you know you made a lot of money. Yeah. He's in Dubai. Yeah. Hope he's staying safe right now. Oh, yeah. But yeah, he was the first person who kind of helped me believe that it's possible to sell anything high ticket because I remember back in the day when he was selling DMC, Digital Millionaire Coaching, that he had people in there selling handstand offers and just people doing the most random things. There was a client Bruce that he had who sold like a piano course for $5,000. Wow. I think that another client named Vaughn, who I'm actually good friends with now, he has a gospel piano program that he's had seven figures with. Holy crap. Piano lessons? An authentic gospel piano too. That's so niche. So niche. He's a seven figure company to this day. But it was after seeing case studies like that where I'm like, okay, if these guys can sell a piano program for $5,000, I can do this for Trumpet. And then I've launched Trumpet Mastering. Wow. $3 million. $3 million with that offer. That's insane. Who would have thought teaching trumpet? It's crazy. I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, in the music niche, most people are paying for like one-on-one lessons. That's what everyone's used to. Yeah. And if you're a serious student and you're paying like $100 an hour each week for 52 weeks, I mean, that's over 5K. Yeah, that's top, right? So in a way, we're kind of saving the money and getting a little more value. What do you put it that way? That makes sense. Yeah, I used to take tennis lessons. Those were like 100, 150 an hour, I think. I wonder if that's possible to teach virtually though. Yeah. I mean, I've seen someone do like a golf course. I've seen this person's ads all the time. I mean, if the ads are consistent, I assume he's profitable. But yeah, he's selling a golf program. Really? Teaching golf online. Yeah. No way. That's crazy. What are the best high ticket offers you've seen over your time? Yeah. I think the high ticket offer I was most impressed with was Colgawar and Seales Team Accelerator. He did a lot with that one. Yeah. It was just a perfect example of what a high ticket program should be. The course itself is phenomenal. Like I still reference back to it at least once a month whenever I need clarity on something. The group calls, there's so many options, all different categories, everything you possibly need to help with. But it's like, what kind of blew me away the most is that it felt like an actual service and it didn't feel like I just bought another course. But it's like they have account managers and CSMs who talk to you every single day. Wow. They're checking in on you, making sure you reach your numbers and everything. And they have the whole recruiting service as well, where they're placing you with setters closers. It feels like an actual service and an actual partnership where they're supportive of you. They want you to be successful. Granted, they have upsells and renewals that they're trying to upgrade you to. And that's the whole business model. But his program was the first time where I felt like I joined an actual service and I didn't just buy another course. So he really made the right hires for community building, it sounds like. Right. And his company is what I want to model and role-premium clients after. It's not just another course where it's selling information. It's a full service. Eventually, I want to have a whole sales recruiting division to it where it's like where we're placing closer setters, any type of team member with their clients in our portfolio. Yeah. I mean, by leaps and bounds, his offer was my favorite investment so far. Yeah, it's shelter cool. I mean, I've heard some rumors that offer did like five million a month or some crazy numbers. So that makes sense. You mentioned earlier, setters are going to get replaced by AI. What about closers, you think? I'm not sure. I'm kind of back and forth about this one because I feel like real genuine human connection is never going to be replaced by AI. Because when it comes to sales and closing deals, people want to feel understood, people want to feel like this guy gets me, he knows my problems, oh, he's had clients who have similar problems to me, awesome. And people just want to feel heard and understood. I mean, that's why I don't think therapists ever are going to be replaced by AI either. They're trying, but yeah, the emotional aspect is a tough one to replace. Because closing has a lot of parallels to therapy, where it's like people want to feel heard, people want to feel like they're listened to, someone gets them, they understand their problems. And I don't feel like an AI is ever going to be able to replicate that. Sure, AI, it would probably be a better listener and be able to do the tactics of sales better than a human could. But especially in B2C sales, there is that emotional piece that just needs to be there for a lot of people. Maybe B2V sales that are more numbery and more technical and the founder already has a good mindset and understands that it's a transaction and anything more than that. Maybe AI can close those deals, but for B2C sales, I don't see AI or closing closers. I agree. I agree. I can see it for setters because it's just qualifying. But for closers, I don't think so yet. Maybe down the road. AI is evolving so quick. I mean, I just built my whole website with AI. Oh my God. It's crazy. Yeah. Like, I lot of ad images, YouTube thumbnails that I'm using. I remember when GPT and the image version of that that no one uses anymore. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. But I remember just how horrible everything looks when it first launched. But it's really come a long way. The thumbnails on YouTube. Yeah, I'm split testing. Some of the AI ones are outperforming people. I'm paying $50 to $100 per thumbnail. Yeah. So it's crazy. I think graphic design is totally screwed. Graphic designers are fucked. Web developers are screwed. Imagine going to college for graphic design now. It's pointless. Yeah. My younger brother went to college. I didn't feel so bad for him. Does he know what year it was? He graduated maybe a year and a half ago. So when he entered, chat GPT was first kind of getting started. He should have seen a comment, I think at that point. I think it was new enough for like, he didn't know. No one really knew what it was going to become. Yeah. Here's what annoys me though. Like I texted my web developer, like, have you seen lovable.dev? Yeah. Do you know that one? Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen it? Yeah. He's like, yeah, it's terrible. But I'm like, bro, you should be embracing this for your web developer. Why would you be against AI? It's going to help you get more clients if you utilize this. Right. Right. You know what I mean? So I think it's on you at that point if you're not embracing it. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's always going to be skepticism when there's innovation, something new. Like I know like when the internet first came out in the 90s, like people were skeptical about that. And then look how much it's impacted the world today, right? True. So I mean, it just needs time before people are kind of normalized AI. But in the beginning, there's always going to be skepticism. Yeah. And I know you run a lot of paid ads. Is it doing most of your targeting for you these days, AI? We still do the targeting the same way we did before AI was a thing. But like a lot of our copy and a lot of the creatives and media we use for the ads now are AI. Got it. Like the imagery, the video editing and the creatives is a lot of AI now. I used to take a lot of time to do manually. Yeah. Copy and split testing. Yeah. A lot of the copies too. And I'll take a copy and be like write four headlines for this copy. And it's just so easy to pump that out. Yeah. It does my YouTube titles. Yeah. And it provides good titles. Yeah. And it's like for YouTube too with the whole SEO optimization too, where it's like, oh, create perfect descriptions with all the keywords that you want. Wow. Yeah. I need to use that. I need to tell my editing team that. I don't know if they use that, but that's smart. So you rank higher on the search. Exactly. Wow. Fun times are in my mind. Fun times. I remember early in my entrepreneurial journey, you had to do everything was so tedious. Like you had to do everything. You know what I mean? Like you would spend hours on the dumbest shit because there wasn't AI like just doing it for you. Now I feel like it's so optimized. Like it does a lot of my research for me for podcast guests. If I want to summarize a book or a podcast, it could do that in two minutes. Yeah. It's crazy. It saves you a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm really pumped about it. I know some people hate it, but I'm a huge fan. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't see how hating it is productive. For sure. What do you think about low ticket offers? Have you doubled with those? Yeah. I mean, I used to do low ticket when I was first getting started, but I think any experienced marketer would agree that starting with low ticket isn't a good idea. You have to start with high ticket, something that was going to bring you a lot of upfront capital so that you have like a backbone to your whole business. But I used to sell like a $37 ebook when I was doing my trumpet program. And then I would sell like workshops with guest artists. Like we brought in like very famous trumpet players in the niche like Wayne Bergeron, Alan Vazuti, principals of major orchestras, like Canadian brass members. Like we brought them pretty much like the top tier A players. And I was selling like those workshops for like 97 a ticket. Wow. And I mean, I was pretty much lucky to break even when I was doing low ticket because I was running asshole that if I broke even, that'd be a good month for me. And what I found is that with low ticket, people just don't take it seriously either. So with the ebook that was $37 is like a hundred page book, spend a lot of time making it and everything. But like the, I would say like 40, 50% of people never even click the link to download the book after they purchase it. That's so crazy. But it's like, I took this, the exact same content in the book, like just repackaged it into a high ticket program. And people are buying the same information for like a hundred times the price. And then they're actually using it because they actually paid more for it. So it's reframing the mindset. I mean, it's the whole saying of like people who pay pay attention to where if you actually spend like multiple thousands of dollars on the same information, you're actually going to consume it. Do you ever think about the risk you didn't take buying Bitcoin early, investing after 2008, loading up on the video? AI is changing jobs, markets are all over the place. Nothing feels guaranteed. And at some point you realize no one's going to save you. We're kind of the FOMO generation. But here's one thing you don't want to miss protecting your future. If you're new to life insurance, you're not alone. Thankfully, I found select quote for over 40 years, they've helped more than 2 million Americans understand their options and secure over $700 billion in coverage. As a broker, their mission is simple to find you the right insurance policy at the best price. 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Get 30 days free at PipeDrif.com forward slash audio. Just give them the game, right? The same thing with events, I host a lot of events, is is mentioned earlier, and when is is is free, only 40 to 50% of people show up, but when is is is is is is is is is is is Yeah, but when it's paid like 80 to 90% show up. So it's the same thing in any business you're in. Yeah, you filter out the tire kickers Yeah, there's a lot of those What why do people struggle to get clients from your experience? Why people struggle to get clients so there's a few reasons for this I mean we already talked about the trust recession where I feel like people who are just getting started today Definitely have an unfair advantage versus people who launched their first business, you know, yeah four or five years ago For timing. Yeah, so the timing is definitely a big part of it because you know The word is out about the high ticket space and like there's a lot of scumbags burning people out there Yep, so that definitely makes it harder for the new guy But I think the the biggest culprit though is people just giving up too early Because I've had clients who like they'll they'll spend a thousand dollars on ads and be like this shit doesn't work And then they give up and it's like you only spend a thousand dollars. That's nothing Yeah, you're selling a 5k program. You only spend a thousand dollars. What'd you expect? So people spend a thousand per lead. Yeah, depending on the business you're in exactly, right? it's like people a lot of people just aren't groomed and don't have the mental toughness to really get a high ticket business off the ground and So I think that's a big part of it and like a big reason why I'm doing my new business model with the whole done for your service Is because those people don't even get to look at their ad accounts. We're gonna do all that for them So it's like like we're we're kind of taking all the emotion away because it's like we're running the as not you We're building the sales process not you we're doing all the measurements not you so it's like because One it's not our money. Yeah, we're never gonna get emotional about it and we've done this before like I've spent like Way too much of my own money trying to figure this out like when I first launched my business like I'm pretty frugal I don't really spend a lot. I mean at least this was true like back when I was poor, but um, I have a little bit relative Yeah, it's all relative right, but I was a 23 years old when I first got started and I had like 20k in savings, which you know, it's a lot for a 23 year old I guess but I remember like I would I invested in mentorship programs as running ads paying for click funnels paying for all the software this and that and My 20k and life savings all the way went all the way down to 3k Jeez and then it went down to 3k and that's when things took off, right? so it's like I could have gotten emotional when I lost like 75% of my net worth or I could have kept going and and Made it happen because I remember 100 million dollar offers was at at the time and I know Hermosi told his soul story about how he was down to his last $1,000 and he still didn't give up. He turned the ads on Just leveraged an old credit card. He had it made it happen and I remember just Let's let's just remembering that story because I've already read it at the time and I'm like alright This is my Hermosi moment like I'm down to my last 3k Like if this doesn't work, that's that's not good, but I'm not gonna give up you young Yeah, you could afford to lose it all at that age. Yeah, exactly. I'm 29. I can still afford to lose it all but um I Went for it made my first webinar did my first high ticket pitch closed the three thousand dollar client in full wow and then Raised the price to 5k and it eventually went all the way up to 7k But I went from like the plane doing a nosedive to the ground 3k left the pilot woke up last minute That's how it is man. Yeah, same thing with the pod I was down a hundred k first six months of this podcast easily could have quit Yeah, you know, that's a lot to be down and Saw the the big picture with it. Yeah, you know, I mean Yeah, but unfortunately like most people just don't have that mental toughness to deal with massive swings like that They don't I so I attribute it to I'm a big risk taker Yeah, and I was single or not single then but I wasn't married so it wasn't just my life on the line if that makes sense and I was young, you know, I could all I had the fortune of if I failed I could live with my parents Yeah, so I had that as like my final trump card I guess but I think when you're that young you should take some risks, you know, yeah I mean, I feel like people should take risks no matter what age they are Because I mean something I learned kind of recently like don't want to go into like personal stuff, but like You can lose everything but you are the asset that can give everything back. Hmm. Like you got the knowledge still. Yeah, exactly because it's like What whether you I don't know if you get divorced or you have a major health problem and the medical bills drain you out or you get sued or Anything like that like the money is not the asset like this is the asset right? I've lost it all twice and I'm grateful for yeah because it's made me way stronger Yeah So like once you really understand that that money is just material and money is something that you can you can always get back It'll let it's like a superpower where it's like you're not afraid to lose anything like you can do anything with just full intention and Just have the power to give everything back because like a lot of our heroes a lot of people we look up to you I've lost everything. Oh, yeah multiple times Dave Ramsey. I was gone bankrupt Dan Martell Dan Martell Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy. Yeah, Abraham. Like an entrepreneur before yeah Or even like celebrities like Robert Downey Jr. Like drug addict, you know has been to jail multiple times And he's now he's Robert Downey Jr. Yep, you know so many examples so many examples. Yeah, so I think Trump too Yeah, Trump has declared bankruptcy several times several times not chapter seven but like the business version of that I think it's chapter 11. Yeah. Yeah, but um Yeah, I mean Hormozzi was down to his last thousand dollars And yeah, I know he said in several podcasts. I listened to is that he would have declared bankruptcy if it didn't work out Yeah, I've been close at times, you know, yeah, it's it's just part of the entrepreneurial journey, dude. Yeah Don't let it get to you when you're down that bad I know there's probably some people watching this that are down right now because it's I think we're in a recession They won't admit it But yeah, it's definitely you could tell when your business owner like based off your sales kind of where the economy is heading I feel like yeah for sure and I feel like we are in a recession It's a lot of people are down right now. Yeah, we're definitely in a recession with what's going on with global politics right now I don't know You know, we It's definitely gonna economically impact us because gas prices are definitely going up. Yeah. Yeah, I just paid like five dollars a gallon or so I thought we were done with this shit But um and being in Vegas we kind of can see we're always like a market indicator for recessions Yeah, the strip clubs here the clubs here the casinos are usually a key sign Yeah, less people are coming here. It usually means the economy is getting worse. Yeah Well people are just getting ripped off here also. Yeah, that's a whole other podcast. But yeah, Vegas ain't the same man How long you been here? I've been here since June of 24. Oh, it's your brand new coming up on two years. Okay. Okay. You come from Cali. I came from LA. Yeah, um I lived all over though. I was born and raised in New Jersey. Oh same. What the hell? Yeah, mom. We're both 29 That's crazy. Yeah, mom with county. Uh summer said county. Yeah, I graduated high school in 2014 But um, yeah, I went to school. I went to college in New York Then my first job was with the military bands and I was stationed down in the savannah, Georgia And then that was during coveted and then I created my first business while I was in lockdown Um, and I also discovered very quickly that uh, I don't want to work for anyone else Yeah, same and the the government was kind of an extreme example of how much it could suck to work for someone else So um, you're locked in for four years. Yeah, and they treat you like shit and you guys got no respect Yeah, the military bands like I was making like 30 grand a year living in it literally like an apartment That had cockroaches in it. Oh my god. It was how do you live off 30 grand a year? I don't know all goes to your rent Well, they they give us free housing, but the government housing it's like it might as well be jail. Yeah, there's cockroaches The conditions are so bad But that that's what inspired me to be like, okay I got to make a living on my own like I can't be dependent on an employer like I got to create my own success And that's when I launched my first business So then that got successful I moved to LA because at the time I had a business colleague who lived in uh, one of the neighborhoods in LA Um, and then business really took off and I was like, why am I in california? This doesn't make sense the taxes with the taxes and all the bullshit regulations and so I moved next door to vegas to Mostly for tax reasons say that's literally what I did. So it's actually during the pandemic. It made no sense to be in LA Yeah, I even thought of moving to dubai, but um With uh, what's going on right now? Oh, yeah, I'm probably gonna have to wait Definitely not going now, but yeah, I feel like dubai you need to be making several millions Yeah, or Puerto Rico for it to make sense But then you're sacrificing quality of life a little bit too. Yeah, I mean it depends on your values and All that. Yeah, I mean dubai is probably the polar opposite culture of las vegas Right, uh, this this is the the sin city and dubai is the very conservative pious kind of place but um I mean it just depends on what your values are and what you're looking for. I agree. I think um For me, you know, I'm married. I don't know if I want to bring my wife over there, you know, it's a big change for woman But uh, yeah, I want to go there. I haven't been there. Have you been in dubai yet? I haven't but I've heard great things Yeah, like I have a lot of colleagues who live there like dan hannery lives there I studied under william brown recently and he lives there Um, and they all have nothing but great things to say about it. So yeah, same eddie malouf's over there Yeah, dan dogless. Do you ever think about the risk you didn't take buying bitcoin early and besting after 2008 loading up on nvidia ai's changing jobs and markets are all over the place Nothing feels guaranteed and at some point you realize no one's gonna save you We're kind of the fomo generation But here's one thing you don't want to miss protecting your future if you're new to life insurance, you're not alone Thankfully, I found select quote for over 40 years They've helped more than 2 million americans understand their options and secure over 700 billion dollars in coverage as a broker Their mission is simple to find you the right insurance policy at the best price and they work for you for free You can even get same day coverage up to 2 million dollars with no medical exam required And even if you have pre-existing conditions, they work with companies that can help life insurance is never cheaper than it is today Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50 at select quote dot com slash dsh Fade more than 50 on term life insurance at select quote dot com slash dsh today to get started at select quote dot com slash dsh HUBBA HUBBA There it is the feeling of food hub HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of your favorite takeaways delivered to your door HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of one app one tap and all your favorite restaurants in one place HUBBA HUBBA Get that HUBBA HUBBA feeling when you order your favorite takeaways with food hub Download from your app store today HUBBA HUBBA If your team isn't using your crm it isn't working Pipe drive is a simple crm It's easy to use so you can focus on closing get 30 days free at pipe drive dot com forward slash audio Games, I think Joel you a lot of guys in our space And the cool thing about dubai is that I mean you can set up residency there, but doesn't mean you have to live there Yeah, like you can live in europe you can get a visa and live in the states like you can travel because What uh bothers me about the us is that no matter where you're located you still get taxed like you're living in the us Like an mf or exactly. Yeah. Yeah, they'll still get there 35 40 percent no matter where you're out Yeah, because I've thought about moving to like tailand and being a boss over there Yeah, and like you can live off like five bucks a day over there Exactly, but you'd still have to pay 35 percent. Yeah, unless you uh, which this is crazy You could revoke your passport, which I know someone that did that but I don't know if that's worth it like expaterating Um, yeah, you like revoke it so then you're not liable for taxes, but then you don't have a us passport So yeah, it's like I I wouldn't mind doing that myself. Honestly. Yeah, do that I've thought of that it for a lot of years now. Yeah, dude the us is the best though for for like business I feel like uh You don't think so. I guess is it really or do you feel like that's the truth or do you feel like that's more propaganda? So I feel I feel like it's industry dependent So for what you're doing because you can live a digital know my lifestyle because your business is digital Yeah, I think for you it could be possible, but for me as a podcaster Uh, I think it would be my guest opportunities not being here. Yeah, I guess it depends. Yeah, if you're doing like an in person thing I mean like living in vegas or Miami or New York I need to be in a major city or yeah, you gotta be somewhere like this But for you it I could see the argument. Yeah, you can run your business from anywhere in the world Yeah, like I I can just take my laptop anywhere and run my business. Yeah, like I have rarely like Taking my laptop laptop to red rock plates and poker and that's slack open at the same time But it's like uh, that's why I stack my days while film once or twice a week because I still want to have that freedom The other days of the week. I don't want to be location bound like most people live Yeah, location freedom is very important to me. I want to be able to travel when I when I want also Yeah, do you just do the podcast in vegas or no, I do other cities So like if there's a big event in la of jsx over here, we got jsx in vegas. We're kind of spoiled So I'll take that if I need to go to texas or Cali sometimes I'll go to miami new york if it's a big guest Which I don't mind because I like traveling. I think traveling is very important for mindset Yeah, for sure. You know, it sounds like you've lived in a lot of different places and got perspective on life Yeah, I mean, it's a great way to like I've heard this saying is like the more you travel like the more places you live in an experience like the younger you feel I could see that. Yeah, because it's like there's always something new happening um And I mean over the last 10 years. I don't think I've lived somewhere more than four years. Wow, so you've been on the go for So it's not my choice or just like you some sometimes The the career takes me to where I go like when I um I mean, obviously, you know went to school. We have to relocate for that usually then Got into the military had to relocate to that And then moved to la by choice because I had a colleague who lived there And then moved to vegas for tax reasons But honestly, like I'm super grateful to have lived in a lot of different places because um You kind of see the world differently a little bit even if it's just different cities in the same country like the states you still like Get to learn about different cultures and learn about you know different ways people live. Yeah, so it's it's Really cool. Very important. Even if you're not living I always advise people to at least travel You know what I mean? If you can't afford moving completely like drive to the next state or the next city At least experience something because there's people that still live where they grew up. It blows my mind. Yeah Um, were you looking at next because that's what I'm talking with my wife with where we're going next Yeah, I mean dubai. Oh, you're really sold on dubai. Okay. dubai was kind of like the The plan since uh a few years ago, but um now with the war. Yeah, the timing is very unfortunate So I'm kind of like back to the drawing board on that. What about domestically any other city? Is that interesting? I would love to live in like the pacific northwest northwest. Wow, that's like that's seattle Because I have one of my cousins lives in washington state now. You got to handle the rain out there Yeah, the rain is pretty bad, but like the the nature out there though is I hear is phenomenal big on nature Yeah, I'm very big on nature like I love going to national parks love going outdoors um Great weather is really important to me too. I mean the rain. I don't mind as long as like the the temperature is kind of uh Um, I'm with you on that on the rain rain. I actually miss the rain out here Yeah, because I lived in upstate new york for five years when I was in school and the that is a deal breaker Okay, so walk me through that because that's on my wife's list upstate new york But I don't know because with the state tax at new york's second highest state tax upstate is also really expensive It is. Yeah, you didn't have a good experience those five years. No, I did have a good experience I love living there like it's a bit upstate new york honestly is very underrated like it's super beautiful up there a lot of great outdoor stuff It's just the winters there are absolutely brutal right so here's my plan right so like ty lope has taught me this seasonal Uh, I forget how he words it but he has three locations. Yeah, and he moves depending on the seasons Yeah, so like he'll have a spot on the east coast But in the winter he'll leave to the west coast. Yeah, new york is beautiful for the summertime Yeah, I would say that's my long-term plan to have two or three houses or places to live out and adjust when I need to move during the seasons Yeah But yeah, new york is beautiful. I lived in georgia for four years and the sun Savannah By the by the coast but like the the humidity in the southeast is It's like you step outside for five seconds. It's like I need a shower and change the clothes like this is gross You got to leave during the summer then. Yeah, so um Yeah, and then of course like the like the fall and spring down there were just phenomenal So um, yeah, I do agree like I have the same kind of plan of having like a few different homes where it's like This is my summer home. This is my winter home. Just depending on the season. Yeah, so I think ty has a city spot I think she said new york and la and then when he needs to go off grid, it'll have like a ranch somewhere That's kind of my plan. He's up in sweden now, right? Yeah, he's got somewhere Yeah, and he's dealing with a lot of shit with that or whatever This is a whole radio shack thing. Yeah, I feel like that was a lot of That brought a lot of distrust to the high ticket space. What happened? Yeah, you know Because he was like the guru that a lot of people looked up to Yeah, I mean ty I kind of put him in the same bucket as like andy elliott and grant cardone It was like, yes, he he's he is like one of the top guys like he's uh a lot of people learn from him but um Yeah, I mean There's I mean, I I I like to Think that once we get to the end of the the court case or whatever then we should cast our judgments Yeah, we'll see how it plays but it's like, you know Innocent till proven guilty like, you know, let's hear everyone's side of the story before we judge anyone That's a raritary these days. Yeah Yeah, because I mean there's the litigation culture in this country is honestly disgusting Dude, it almost wrecked me. My first lawsuit. Yeah was fucking awful Yeah, I like had the worst anxiety over because you don't get taught this stuff when you're growing. Yeah So when you get served, it's like a life-changing moment. Oh, yeah, I I'm still living through it I'm not gonna talk specifics because it's still ongoing right now. But yeah, uh, it's inevitable when you get to a certain financial level You are a target. Yeah, that's what I realized everyone wants to stick their filthy hand in your money bag essentially But yeah, I yeah getting served for the first time. I was just Add a commission for six months. Well, I I you know, I got addicted to a few things You know, I just felt like everything was over life was gonna end Like it's the worst possible feeling you can have Yeah, I will say over time you get used to it. Unfortunately. Yeah now I deal now you have to allocate like 10 to 20% of your funds to legal It's just like you gotta play defense. You know what I mean? Yeah But um, I mean that that's kind of part of the reason I was thinking about living offshore is because that's smart because you International lawsuit. No, yeah It's a thousand times harder to sue a Dubai company for example than to know what's gonna do it It would cost too much. Yeah. Yeah, it would cost way too much Yeah, and then I got into a whole like offshore bank accounts. I got a cook island's trust now and all that into the banking Yeah, so like these are kind of lessons that I kind of have to learn the hard way when it when shit hits the fan But um, I dealt with a nasty one last year that like yeah pretty much put me back to ground zero Which is crazy. Like I was Multi-millionaire chilling and had to deal with that shit. Yeah, and they even had a uh, I think it got to like a judgment or a Whatever it's called where I pretty much had to pay a certain amount. Yeah, I think a judgment judgment. Yeah. Yeah, um, yeah Lawsuits are nasty, bro. Yeah But I mean like look at trump and zuckerberg and elon how much they're getting sued Like it seems like they're getting served it multiple times a day. Oh multiple times. Yeah. Yes. It's like so normal to them Yeah, what I've realized is the more you make the more legal stuff you're gonna have to deal with Even hormonesy he talks about this shit. It sucks dude. He deals with a lot too. Yeah so it's like Yeah, this is kind of the ugly side of entrepreneurship. Yeah, it's like, you know but It's part of the game and like this this is part of the risk we're taking so you just got to get used to it like you said Absolutely. Yeah, you got to trust up Put your money in smart places and on paper. I'm broke now. It's a please sue me Yeah, if you looked at my pink account right now and yeah, you're not finding much. I'm pretty broke Yeah, but that's how these guys um live these um billionaires and centimillionaires. They are broke on paper Yeah, all their assets are in either LLCs trust, you know what I mean? Yeah offshore or they have a spouse that owns it or Yeah, there's all sorts of crazy ways I love those stories where like some girl marries a pro athlete and then they found out His mom was getting all the money and then they get nothing during the divorce Those are the best. Yeah, you know But dude, this is cool. Where can uh people potentially work with you find you and all that stuff? Yeah, my instagram is called uh at and world premium clients Um same thing with facebook and youtube just searching world premium clients and that that's many of them in my brand now Uh, we just rebranded too because um, I'm trying to build a business model that I can sell one day I just don't want my name on the brand anymore So yeah in world premium clients as well. You'll find all of our stuff. Yeah, we'll link it below man Thanks for coming on appreciate it. Yeah, check them out guys if you're interested in uh creating an offer. See you next time. Peace Thanks for watching all the way to the end guys. Please hit like and subscribe It helps us grow the show and helps us get bigger guests. Thank you so much Do you ever think about the risk you didn't take buying bitcoin early and best thing after 2008 loading up on nabidia ai's changing jobs and markets are all over the place nothing feels guaranteed and at some point you realize no one's And i'm gonna save you we're kind of the fomo generation But here's one thing you don't want to miss protecting your future if you're new to life insurance, you're not alone Thankfully, I found select quote for over 40 years They've helped more than 2 million americans understand their options and secure over 700 billion dollars in coverage as a broker Their mission is simple to find you the right insurance policy at the best price and they work for you for free You can even get same day coverage up to 2 million dollars with no medical exam required And even if you have pre-existing conditions, they work with companies that can help life insurance is never cheaper than it is today Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50 at select quote com Slash dsh save more than 50 on term life insurance at select quote com slash dsh Today to get started at select quote com slash dsh HUBBA HUBBA There it is the feeling of food hub. HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of your favorite takeaways delivered to your door HUBBA HUBBA The feeling of one app one tap and all your favorite restaurants in one place HUBBA HUBBA Get that HUBBA HUBBA feeling when you order your favorite takeaways with food hub download from your app store today HUBBA HUBBA If your team isn't using your crm it isn't working Pipe drive is a simple crm It's easy to use so you can focus on closing get 30 days free at pipe drive.com forward slash audio