4.8. Des's First Trail Ultra

what's up everybody welcome to another episode of nobody asked us with des and cara presented by brooks running oh boy what's happening you know it if you're a long time listener Chris is on vacation and we got to the episode. So I'm so pumped that you just did that. One of these times you're going to have to do the intro because I want you to, you're going to have to be Chris because I want you to have the access to all the tools at the top. And there used to be more. I accidentally deleted some. It's disappointing that he never just jumps in while we're recording and hits us with a little sound effect. Or you could add his touch for sure. it's like I just hit me and got to do my things. I know. I know. It's like, I actually don't listen to you guys. You're annoying. All right. Well, I don't think so. I think we bring all kinds of entertainment to the running world, all the top hitting news and behind the scenes info. And I think our listeners appreciate it. I think so too. You're right. You're right. I'm happy to see you hydrating. I am hydrating. It's dry in the desert, Kara. Yeah. Right out here. and a lot of sun. I am, uh, I'm apparently looking very tan. You look great. I was looking at all your photos from the race and I was like, she like videos. I was like, she looks so healthy and just like tan. Like I know you were racing a 50 K and you weren't having the best day of your life, but I was like, she looks amazing. Like it looked like you had been on vacation before you went there, even though I know you hadn't been. Yeah, that's great. It must've hit quick. Cause we got in, I want to say Wednesday afternoon, maybe Thursday. I think, maybe I think it was Wednesday. Went for a run and we got in and then drove up to Sedona. Um, so just a couple of days of running outside. I've been, I mean, I've been on the treadmill since December. I don't, I've tried not to go outside. I haven't seen this. I haven't had fresh air once. So like when I hit that fresh air and got that vitamin D, just like, dude, you have good skin. Cause your skin looks beautiful. I was like, dang her. She looks so like, you look like you've been on vacation. I know you haven't. It's so dry, but it's got a base layer down. We'll go to Florida. I go to Florida after this to get some good hot weather condition training stuff in. So that'll be good. Okay. So you're not going back to Michigan at all. Are you going back for a little bit? I'm super lucky. I fly from here to Orlando and Ryan left on a red eye last night. We were going record yesterday and I was like stay a little longer it'll be fun we'll go do some stuff um and he was like okay I'll take the red eye home and I was like oh that's like that's such a rough one he was like it's fine I'll do it um we had an awesome day went to a really great dinner and then he flew back he's gonna he picked up the dogs he's doing a day of work and then he'll drive down with all our shit and the dogs so yeah I'm flying he's driving which nice How long will you be in Florida? I think about a month. I got a couple secret things going on. You know what's happening this weekend. I do know what's happening this weekend. But it's going to be in the vault. That's fine. It'll be a fun time. We can talk about it next week maybe. I don't think people will care. It'll be a fun thing to do. Big Brooks event, I guess. yeah that's awesome i can't wait for you how's the body actually no well yes how is the body we obviously are going to get into your race at black canyon we want to hear all about it but now that you are today's tuesday we're recording on tuesday your race was sunday so you're what like 48 hours out yeah and how is how is it feeling right now good i feel good um i thought my quads would be like absolutely shot and like my top of my like hip flexors were a little sore by the end like I was like it's kind of hard to pick my feet up um you know you're just like I don't want to keep lifting my legs this sucks um and like you're stepping over a lot more than like you're you know lifting your feet so it was actually a lot more work um but everything feels good we did a nine or ten mile run yesterday did a photo shoot in the afternoon um i feel good i have i think i have a little head cold but yeah that's a different thing so well that's good okay well let's dive into the whole weekend because what did you do on your weekend what did i do um well i feel like we're still have on the weekend because colt had has a four-day weekend so he doesn't go back to till tomorrow. A lot of Olympic watching. Yeah. Um, I met one of my favorite people. She's a pod diehard listener, Anna Pafel for coffee on Sunday. Um, and that was really fun. We sat in a Panera for over three hours. I was going to say, where did you get coffee? But you went to Panera. We just wanted to catch up. We live like, we live like 30 minutes apart. So we met in the middle out of Panera. Not sexy, but it was great. And yeah, just a lot of Olympic watching. And then today Colt had, he has to do three behind the wheels before he can take his license. Yeah. So he had his behind the wheel this morning and he was pretty nervous for it, but I went to pick him up and the instructor was like, he is one of the best drivers I've ever had. He is so mature and this and that. And I was like, well, thank you so much for your time. And he was like, thank you for raising such a great kid. So like, I was like, I'm on a high and it wasn't even about me. It was about my kid. But so, yeah, I don't know. Also driving is like pretty important. So if you need a couple of years to grow to hook up before you can do this, you'd be like, oh no. I know. Yeah. When he, when he first started driving, I was like, this can't be real, but he has actually gotten really good. And he's just one of those kids who he's still a teenager and you forget stuff all the time, but in general, he's really thoughtful and he's always been a little bit mature in that sense. So I'm not surprised that he's a good driver. Oh, I know one thing we did. We took him on Saturday to go run out at Davidson Mesa, which he hadn't run there since he was like a kid, like a littler kid. And he does, I don't, he's getting in such good shape. Yeah. I don't get it. So he had a nine mile run. And then, which by the way, he couldn't even run that far this fall. Right. And this was his second nine mile run. He did one last weekend too. And he was supposed to pick up the pace for 40 minutes in the middle. And he averaged 630. Oh, gosh. And I'm like, what is happening? Yeah. So it's really, it's crazy. I mean, a lot of it's testosterone. And then a lot of it, I think, is he finally has like a season to build off of, even though he took three and a half weeks off or whatever, like he still has a season to build off of. So yeah. So we took him on Saturday to do that. And then he doesn't run on Sundays. So we just watched the Olympics. I don't know. Anyway, just a lot of sitting around. And it still feels like the weekend here because he goes, doesn't go back to school till tomorrow. Nice. Any big events coming up that you're excited for? Well, tomorrow's Adam's birthday. Oh, nice. He's going to be 51. That's even better. He's going to be 51. And so I'm kind of excited tomorrow. Like we have like, he has doctor's appointments and we have a meeting. you're in your 50s i know seriously he has like his annual physical i have to go to the dermatologist tomorrow for my skin check anyway but at some point we're gonna go out to dinner and that'll be fun and then i'm trying to think like the i'm still really into the olympics so we're running out of time though because it ends this weekend and then yeah i don't know just life so fast you're like it does so exciting you're amped for the opening ceremony and then it's like boom boom boom, it's over. Yeah. I know. I'll be sad because we just have Peacock playing. I know. We have Peacock just playing all day. And I'm like, it's going to be quiet in the house. It'll be sad. Yeah. And there's no, it's not like you can put on NBA and be like, oh, that fulfills me. It doesn't fulfill me in the way the Olympics does. No, I would rather, I would rather watch like a sports that I don't understand at all. I don't know. There's something about the Olympics. So that's fun. I'm excited to have one more weekend of that. And then, you know, back to the grind. So, okay. Did you watch any of the hundred K the black Canyon, a hundred K on Saturday? Check into that at all. Follow it. I was just following your split, the splits. So on the website they had like different checkpoints. So I was just loosely following it that way. And also on threads a little bit. Okay. Um, I couldn't, I couldn't figure out how to put the live stream thing on. Oh, I think it was just YouTube. Okay. Okay. Well, I had about youtube head over to nobody asked so they'll never miss a show so i had my laptop open i was like we got back from colt's run we went out and we got coffees at a real coffee shop on the way home beliza you would like it there i promise and bagel sandwiches and then we came home and we were just watching the olympics and i was like just tracking the 100k um on my my computer and my phone basically so i didn't get to see it although i did see like a lot of photos and video clips and stuff like that. So what I want to know is you're getting ready the next day to run a 50k, but you went out there cause you were telling me you're excited to see the a hundred K. So did you go out and watch it? And how did you watch it? Cause it's like, it's not like a track race. No, I did similar thing. I actually pulled, I pulled it up in the morning, watched the start, watched them kind of go through the first few miles or whatever. And then we were staying in Prescott, which was a little hike um from the course but i wanted to run another section of the course because i'm just a person who likes to know what they're getting into yeah fair we'd run the from the start like mile two or three like once you kind of get off the track and enter the trail from there um out and back on friday so six miles or so um total not out and back but yeah we did that and i was like it was so muddy it rained a ton and I was like oh this is terrible like it's so slick there's rocks everywhere like I'm gonna be tiptoeing along the whole fucking day let's see what the next section looks like maybe that will be somewhere like okay I can open my stride everywhere whatever so we went out the next day to antelope something or other I love all the names I'm always like these are so magical but I never remember them. Antelope Mesa obviously and then we ran that section to Hidden Treasure. It's point to point so Ryan drove down and he had to run up the hill towards me and I ran down but he was like no it's so fun it's like nice and flowy and like that was super runnable super fun and I was like okay like I got a little bit of confidence from this this will be a fun day and so yeah we did that but we had to wait for all the runners to kind of go by so we started a little bit later and then just went back to like tracking on the phone but we went through I guess we went to the 50k mark to pick up my bib which is pretty epic waited and got it um I didn't know you could do it on Friday the website only said Saturday where I saw it but everyone was like are you coming for your bib today like what are you doing like on Friday I was like oh like did not I didn't know yeah so I got it on Saturday I'm sure it was on there it was a me thing none of them thing um but I got it on Saturday and then we got food got ready for you know the evening and um yeah just kind of had the the results like tracking the whole time which was pretty it was a fine way to watch it because it was pretty epic and then also like threads and stuff too like you're getting updates in the visuals which was cool yeah any surprises from it did you have any thoughts on the race from from your viewing experience or i mean i wasn't really surprised like i feel like the names up front were names that I don't know trail running super well, but I felt like the names up front were names that I recognized. When I first started tracking, Molly Seidel was actually leading. And then the couple of women caught her, but then she didn't fall apart or anything. So that was cool. And so, but I, but then afterwards I was reading that these women like shattered the course record. Yeah. And like, should we go through who they were? Yeah. Let's read off that. Top five, yeah. Okay, so the first woman was Jennifer, and I don't know how to pronounce her last name. Is it Lichter? Sounds good to me. Okay, and then Anne Flower was less than a minute behind her. Yeah. And then, you know Tara Dower? Yep. And then, is it Tara or Tara? Tara. Tara Dower. Tara, okay. Oh, sorry, Tara. As a person who gets called Tara, I'm sorry about that. I was saying it wrong. Okay. I feel like I read somewhere that she also ran under the old existing course record, maybe the top three all did. Maybe she was close, at least. I don't know. I don't know the record exactly. Yeah, it's OK. I definitely don't. And then Molly Seidel ended up fourth. And then and then a couple of minutes or a minute and a half back from her was Abby Hall, who I recognize that name. And before we recorded, I'm like, I know her name. She did something big this year. And you're like, she won Western States. Yeah. But I did see a lot of videos of Molly finishing, which was cool, and getting her ticket to Western States and her excitement. And that was cool. But I just feel like these few women in front have just been pushing the sport forward so much. Well, it was crazy how fast they went out. And I think Gabby Hall really pushed it. She's experienced on that course and just was like, today's a good day. I think it was cooler than the 50K. And that road must have dried out a ton by the time they ran. Because when I ran on Friday, it was like just caked on the bottom of your shoes where you're kind of like sliding. Oh, I hate that. So it must have dried out a ton or not. Maybe they will chime in in the comments and be like, nah, it sucked. But we don't need time to shake it off. So, yeah, it was just aggressive early. Like you look at their 50K splits, which were like faster than most of the 50K runners. they went out with intention but jennifer the woman who won this was also her debut in the 100k i believe oh was it really i think so i i'm pretty sure um or it's either that or it's like going to be her debut in the 100 if she takes the ticket okay um and then ann flower was just spectacular last year so that's not surprising she set the world record leadville course record and the 100 and her first ever 100. So I don't know. I think she's a great pick for a Western state win. Like she's kind of done all the different things and like can manage the altitude, can manage the distance. Obviously it's an altitude at Western, but like she can, whatever the variable is, it seems like she's handling it really well. So that's, that's. And then Tara Dower is just a boss, dude. Like the first time I met her, she's just like covered in blood. And she's like, I feel like three times today. I'm like, you're insane. And then she just gets up the next day and does it exactly the same way. She just doesn't back down. So it was no surprise to see her come in pretty bloody, but she always finishes really tough. That's cool. I know. I feel like I don't follow the men as well. And, again, I don't know a ton about trail running. I dip my toe in it briefly, but I'm always inspired by it. I'm always so impressed. But it seems like there's this crop of women, And I don know if it like the Courtney DeWalter effect or what it is but this group of women that are really like pushing boundaries and are just rewriting what it means to be a trail runner Yeah Yeah It definitely leveled up It getting faster and faster and i think um who is it riley sorry riley brady finished ninth she set the course record last year i believe it was last oh wow okay you know like that's a benchmark for how much like leaped forward not to say she had perfect training and was like super ready but you know obviously went in there trying to do well and still finished top 10 which is crazy but it's just changing quick yeah and so we'll see a lot of these athletes then at western states right because this is a western states qualifier if they choose to take it yeah so it's the three you get three tickets that one race gives out three tickets tara dower already had hers from okay so then it rolled down to molly who okay i don't know if they've all accepted i don't know like when that process is but it seemed like everyone was pretty excited and that was like the goal of being at the qualifier race. So yeah. Yeah. Cool. What about the men? You know, the men better than me. Anything stand out to you? I don't have to follow it too closely. Um, I mean, Hans is crazy. He's just been lights out good for such a young kid. And I think last year, I want to say last year, he was signed up to run it and got sick like the night before and had to scratch and then went to canyons, um, which is really close to Western state to get his golden ticket. Um, and it looked like he just kind of cruised away with it which is crazy yeah also sage canaday a little shout out for him he finished seventh 40 years old now um won this race back in the day and i think ran like pretty close to his winning time yeah he did say i think he said it was basically like the same time which is pretty wild that is wild so good for him i'm sure a lot of people kind of like written him off which is is crazy anybody who's won before you're like give him a chance right Yeah. Run pretty well out there. But yeah, like as far as depth goes, I wouldn't know them in nearly as well. Well, let's talk about your experience in the 50K because that's what we all want to hear about. Okay. Talk to us about the night before. Like what time did you get to bed? What time do you have to get up? What'd you have to eat? Did you have your regular like, like pre-marathon dinner? Did you change it up? Like where was your headspace at? Tell us everything. Yeah. I mean, like I feel like we talked about this before, and it wasn't going to be like an A race, so it wasn't like super high stress, like tense. But at the same time, it was like this was my first trail race, so there's a lot of nerves and like just anxious energy, which I think is good. Like it was like, oh, I'm excited about this. It's going to be different. It's going to challenge me in a different way. So pre-race wasn't like super dialed. um i think we were running around like doing stuff and like getting on the course and getting food and it was kind of hustled all day um we did have a guy from san diego come out and he's like capturing content for a youtube piece which will be i think cool i don't know we'll see um so we did a little interview and then ryan went to the grocery store we had a second run in the evening and then ryan went to the grocery store and like picked up like pasta and steak and beers and like made a whole dinner it was great like if ryan's cooking and the fire alarm doesn't go off then it's okay so we like the whole neighborhood there's like fanning the alarms uh yeah so we had i had a little bit of steak but yeah it was kind of like pre typical pre marathon meal with the beer nice and then it was a super early wake-up call yeah what time did you have to get up? I want to say I got up at like 4 45, but when you're still on East coast time, which helps. Yeah. Yeah. So that was fine. And yeah, I made coffee and had to close, close up shop at the Airbnb. Um, yeah, like we stayed closer to the finish where we stayed in Scottsdale actually after the race. So I was like, okay, we have to have everything done here. Right. And then drove to the start, got there with plenty of time. And first lesson in ultra trail is the start time is just a suggestion right maybe it won't that was pretty mind-blowing um yeah we got there like plenty of time but not like extra time and so i was like i'm gonna start warming up just to do like 10 minutes or whatever use the restroom wait in line for porta-potties you never know um and so i did all that and then uh dragged back to the car and i was like i'm to walk over and Ryan's like cool we'll go go with you um him and Blake and start heading over and there's like chatter it's like sort of chatter like oh it's 15 minutes they're changing the start time 15 minutes and it's like I heard it was 20 minutes and you're like what the fuck like right can't be real and like some people are walking towards the start and some people are leaving and you're like like what is actually going on so we finally got up there and I think they said 15 minutes and then as we were walking back like we heard 30 minutes so i walked back to the car sat down and then just turned on the live feed i was like whatever surely they'll say in the live feed right right right yeah right so then the woman on the live feed's like okay we have 15 minutes it's actually been delayed 15 minutes it's like shit like that's been 10 since we walked back but that means they're starting five and then um i think it was eric jenkins was on he was like no I think it's 30 minutes I think it's 30 minutes now and she's like are you sure and he's like well kind of and she's like we don't really know it's 15 to 30 minutes um so I was sitting in the car like I don't really know what to do uh Billy Yang texted me he's like 30 minutes um so I was able to basically sit down for a few minutes and unwarm up I guess yeah we jogged over to the start about five minutes prior which is crazy someone else was like oh it's another 15 minutes like fuck seriously and then like 30 seconds later they're like oh like get on the line get on the line we're starting soon so cool this is all good information for like don't get too married to your routine yeah be adaptable be flexible but also like when you have a 32 mile day you're like whatever like i'll take the first few miles to warm up or so i thought but man it was at the gates hot people were ripping on that track so okay really quick before we go to the start of the race i'm just curious at the end of the race was it 32 miles i think it was 31 high okay because when i ran my first 50k i was like we are crossing the bridge in san francisco and i'm like we hit 31 miles and i'm like this is bullshit we're supposed to I'm done. Yeah. And by the time we got to the finish, it was like 33 miles. I was like, what the hell? And everyone was like, that's trail running. And, you know, for us, it's so, like, it is measured to a T because you have to have the exact measurement with the tangent for the record, you know, all this stuff. And so, yeah, I just remember I was running across in my watch, beep 31 miles. And I was like, what the hell? Like, why am I still out here? I will submit my split. I'm like, ah, okay. um so so it starts and you're expecting it to be not necessarily crazy out of the gate and it is yeah so do you go with it are you like i'm gonna sit back i'm not gonna this is a long day ahead of me what are you thinking well i started pretty like not far far back but if you look at my chip time versus my race time i was three seconds in the pack right like i had to wait three seconds before I got across the start line. And so I was already like pretty far back and I thought it would go out hot. Like it has been the last couple of years or at least last year when I started paying attention. God bless you. That's a YouTube. That's a YouTube. But yeah, I was actually, I was still surprised how quick it went. Like on the track, it was like a full blown sprint and then just like straight into dirt road, little tiny single track to get down the hill to like the dirt road and there was like I think the people who ran at the front probably ran that same pace most of the day which was wild because yeah it's like it's a super long day I'm not even sure I can like 50k was always going to be too long for me at this point in my training but I was like if I can get through 24 to 26 then I can like jog it or cool down or whatever it is. But yeah, I didn't need to go out that fast. Yeah. So like you're the 50K world record holder just to like give a little shine on your name. So you know you can run 50K, but it's not, your training is not, you're not ready to go like crush this thing yet. So when you're going out in their head, like what was your plan for the day? You were like, were you like, I'm going to see if I can win? Are you just like, I'm just going to get through this thing. I mean, you said to me numerous times, I just want to get through 24, 26 and see how I feel. Was that the mindset of like, I'm just going to stick to my own thing and see how this goes? Yeah, for sure. Like even just getting out of the gates and seeing how fast people are out. It's like, I'm like in 50th place probably of the women or maybe like 30th. I don't know. But it wasn't like, I just don't even have the chops to try and like close that gap and then let alone get on the trails and be like, oh, I'm going to run super fast. Like I don't have the experience on that terrain. um but I will say like we ran in Sedona we ran in on the course a few times and like in general when I'm on the trail I'm like 8 30 pace I'm like okay it's like a pretty good run so someone asked me on Friday like how fast do you think it was for like a interview thing like how fast do you think a run or what is your goal and I was like honestly I'll probably be around 4 30 because that's like 830 pace. And I was like, that's usually like what I average out to. And that would be consistent, like pacing the whole way, but obviously it didn't go that way. Um, so coming out of the starts, I think we were like, I don't know. I didn't look at my watch too much, but I was closer to seven flat, maybe even 650. Occasionally I was like, Oh, I'm getting my rhythm here. Look at me go. Um, so it was cool. It was cool that I was like, okay, there's like race mode and like you get a little bit more comfortable on the trail but there was definitely sections like of big steep like not steep like downhills like the trail runners are just gonna laugh at this but like where i was just i'm just stepping aside and letting all this like oh yeah go behind me like go by and then a couple were like trust your legs des and i was like not yet um but like the whole point was to kind of gain confidence as i went and like feel good so yeah I mean and even it's funny because the parts of the course that I like previewed I was like oh yeah like I can do this and then I'd be like oh I haven't been here before like I would get like a little tentative and then I was like oh I've been on this section like could roll pretty good um so that's kind of how the first sections went yeah that is so relatable to me yeah no you do the same thing like bombing down the hills like in Leadville right and like in Leadville I would like catch everybody on the uphill yeah and then we go to the downhill and they'd be I couldn't even see him anymore and then we go uphill again and I'd find him again yeah and it's just like it's a totally different skill set and what I'm excited for you is you have the time to like develop it you know and see um but it's like totally different and it's just yeah or like when I ran the north face 50k on the really technical parts like the really ruddy stuff in the deep woods I'm like tiptoeing right but then we go to then we have a part where you're like climbing stairs and I'm like passing everybody it's just like it's just totally different skill set yeah yeah yeah okay the part from Antelope Mesa to Hidden Treasure was super fun and that was downhill where I was still like getting past but like it would kind of go back and forth I was like no I I can fucking hold my own here behind me. That was super fun. And then, but the course just gets more and more challenging, um, terrain wise as you go, which is hard when you're already tired. So how was the nutrition aspect for you? Were you taking a lot of goo and stuff while you were going, or did you have that dialed in or were you kind of just feeling it out? Um, definitely something I can work on for sure. I think I like early on, I was like, okay, I've got a plan. I'm going to take these goose, like have one down before you get to every aid station. And even that was probably like not enough because it's about six miles, seven miles to each aid station. So I was like, oh, that's like, you know, 45 minutes. It's not, it's longer than that. Um, but I took two and then maybe I took three and then I had some coke at one point so I didn't take enough but I was like so I'm hearing you could work on that for sure okay well I was following you tracking you and it seemed like you started off conservative and then you kind of started rolling a little bit and you started catching people and then it seemed like you took not I don't even know how to describe it but so other other people started catching you And when I texted you, you said you had some issues with your like shoulders and back or neck. So tell us about when did that set in? Well, I do feel like I got through. I feel like I was kind of hard on myself early. I think I got through Bumblebee Ranch. Oh, nice. Yeah, it's a good name. And I felt like pretty good. And I was like, OK, like it was a big climb. And that's where the course starts to get a little bit more challenging. And I was like, that's fine. I think I actually out of that aid station up the hill, past the woman who finished fifth, and then got caught by her a few miles or even a mile later. And then I watched one girl that I'd been going back and forth with fall, like right in her face. And I was like, Oh, okay. Like I love my retentative. But yeah, I got, I think I got through that pretty well. And even through 22 to 24, like, which was the goal, like feeling decent. I think you naturally slow because it's just a big climb and it's a tougher like terrain. Um, and then right around 26 ish, I definitely like kind of threw a little pity party and was like, this is sort of all I wanted to get out of this anyway. Um, cause I was hurting, it was hard, but also like, like from the back of my neck, like the little bumps right there, like my mid back and my shoulders, like, I just felt like someone was punching me, which doesn't like, I could understand if it was my quads or my hip flexors or my calcer cramping. And then like my, by my right bicep is super sore. Like a lot of it didn't really make sense. And I don't know if it's like terrain or what, but something to think about. I don't know. I mean, I wonder if it was terrain and you're not used to having to like really pay attention to your footing so much. And so you were like really paying, and maybe you just had tension that you didn't even realize that you had. But that's like, that's why you do it. Right. To learn, you know? So it was just a weird place to get like super sore. And I was like, like, I definitely watched some. I was like, I can't, like, I need to shake out my neck and my arms and like, people would be like, are you okay? Like, not really, but I'll be okay. Yeah. So the last four to five miles, it was just like, my fucking neck hurts so bad. That sucks. But you kept going and you finished. and you finished your first ever trail race what was it like finishing it's fun I mean I think that finishes like the last couple miles are brutal it was like a lot like um calendar club where you're like oh it'll get easier and you still have so many miles left but like the effort of those last few miles um my buddy Dave who's doing the MDS team with me was like dude that thing just kept going I wanted it to stop and it was so true it would just get I do think it was runnable at that point, like these like kind of long climbs late in the race. I think if I, my neck had been feeling better, I probably could have run decent there cause it wasn't super challenging. And then the descent obviously coming in was kind of crazy. I don know if you watched the women finish I think it was near the end This is someone said The woman who was running for second or third just biffed it and her entire chain was split open, and it was blood on her jersey. I wasn't running fast enough to do that, but I could fully see how that would happen. It wasn't an easy final descent into the finish. But then you turn the corner and get on the flat, and I outkicked the guy. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Like, yeah, I was like, I mean, that's kind of fucked up. And I was like, yeah, we're racing. That's fine. I'm going to. This is acceptable. Yeah. So it was fun. That's awesome. So now, so you finished and you learned so much. I'm imagining in that first 50 K on the trails. And so what were some of the takeaways that you're like, okay, if I want to pursue this further, these are things I either like need to work on. And, And this also is like, I am going to acknowledge, and I actually want to talk about this, that you were like, I'm not really in shape yet. Yeah. So obviously, like, your training is going to change before you make another attempt. But what are little things that you just learned by being out there? Yeah. I mean, obviously, fitness factor is the biggest thing. And like you said, this wasn't the focus. And basically, I've been talking about trail for a really long time, and, like, I just haven't done it. So I was like, okay, this fits in for a lot of different reasons. 50K is a stretch, but like, whatever, let's just go and see what happens and have some fun. And like, check, did that. Obviously the nutrition part has to get better, you know? And I think that that's, again, getting out there and being like, oh, what is it like to pull from your belt? And like, while you're running hard and like, can you be comfortable in the train and like manage other little things? Like just learning that is super important. um and then honestly if you really if i really want to do well at one of these types of races it's just getting out to the trail more like if i were going to focus on black canyon next year 50k or 100k whatever it may be it's like we need to like be out here for at least six weeks prior or like do like extended training camps and just get comfortable on the trail and i think like we run the preview of a section and then I run on a race day and it feels better. So right. Great connection there. Like I, when I'm running it in a training run, it's like, I can only go eight thirties and it feels like I'm like busting my ass. And then on race day, you're like, Oh, like that, I knew that section. So it was more comfortable for me to, to do. So that's like two days apart. So imagine if you spend, if you spent a month and a half or two months or whatever. Yeah. Which is a big step. And it's also like, do I want to do that at this point in my career? I don't know. I mean, I enjoyed it. I thought it was a super cool trail and I could see myself being like, Oh, I like, I want to spend some time on it, but also like, is that the place that's most important? Cause whatever I do, I'm probably going to want to like be near it and try to get on it and all of that. So big decisions, but yeah, it was cool to just mix it up. So those are the two biggest takeaways and then I don't know strength work I really like the neck thing's crazy to me like I've just never maybe it's a downhill but even like western states when I did camp and then ran with Joe like my quads were like cooked you know like they were like laughing at me it was I was like three days of soreness um it's just like trying to walk through the airport like I'm gonna fall on my face and like I don't have any of that so I don't know maybe I just took it all in like the upper body this time. Um, so like just figuring out why that happened and like how to relax a little bit more, um, would be important too. Yeah. I'm excited for you. So we were talking before we recorded, I only did two trail races, but the first one I did was the Leadville marathon and there was like so much attention. And I, I was just like, I don't even know what I'm doing here. Like, I just want to see if I like trail. Right. And then I ran it and just like you, unlike you actually, I got caught up in the beginning. I was running way too fast, way too hard and I just suffered horribly. I walked for a long time. I peed myself. When I finished, I wasn't sure if I had maybe pooped myself. I didn't know. Without the kindness of strangers, I wouldn't have even finished. People would come catch up to me and then sacrifice for like a mile and just run with me. And then they'd be like, all right. Yeah. It was like the craziest experience. And I ended up fourth. And I remember feeling like, so like that was so hard. I just embarrassed myself. They were like, there's a big award ceremony tonight. You got to come. And I was like, I'm not going. Like I was still in the mentality of, I'm sorry, but the road racing community where if you don't nail it, you have to like be ashamed and you have to tell everybody why you ran bad. Yeah, exactly. You have to like explain yourself and you have to be like, I'll be back. Like, here's the next, I'm going to run, you know? And, um, we got back to our Airbnb and I like had some food and had some water and I was like, you know what? I want to go. Like the people of Leadville, the organizing committee, they've been so good to me. The people at Lifetime, they have been so good to me. I'm going to go to the awards thing. And then I went to the awards thing and it was the best ever. Nobody was like, dude, you totally ate crap the second half of that race. Everyone was like, welcome to trailer. So glad you were here. I mean, it was like so amazing. And then I got fourth, but because I had won my age group, I got a golden, I don't remember what they call it, like a coin maybe. Is that what they call it? To the Leadville hundred. And they were like take it, take it. And I passed someone else got it who wanted to do it and who obviously that was like the right call, but it was so amazing. And so it went from this feeling of like, oh, I'm not good at this. I didn't do well to like, wow, I, I think I want to do this again. Like these people are so awesome. And so then I ended up running the North Face 50 K, um, that fall. But anyway, one of the things that blew my mind the most was just like how the people were right it was just such a different it wasn't like oh care goucher thinks she's the shit and she thought she was gonna win and she got her ass kicked yeah they were just like oh it's so great to have you here and I like I said people sacrificing their races to help me get to the finish so I was just wondering if you had an experience like that what was the community like how did that feel like out on course and then afterwards yeah it was super fun I mean I definitely felt that sort of inviting element to it for sure. And yeah, I mean, even the early on miles where like I stepped off the side and they're like, no, no, trust your feet. Like you got this, like, come on. But okay. I love the enthusiasm. And then like late when I was like walking, getting past, like people were like, oh my God, I love you. Like you're so amazing. I'm like, dude, you got this. You're doing great. Yeah, it was cool. I mean, I don't feel like I'm special either. Like if someone wanted to like sacrifice for me and be like, no, no, no. Like you're having a day, go for it. Like I'm just out here experiencing this thing right now. Um, so yeah, it was cool. And I think the biggest thing was like, go and have a fun experience. Like when you do your first marathon and you're like, I want to want to do it again. Yeah. Like I, I felt that like, even though it, the last several miles felt really hard and I was like, this like is not very fun. Um, I enjoyed most of it. And I think I was like, Oh, if I got fit and did this right. I think I could have fun the full day instead of just part of the day. But I got to the end and it was like, yeah, this is a great community to be a part of and an enjoyable experience and never felt like people were like, haha, crushed your face. Like you thought you were a hotshot or whatever. And I think you saw that with Molly too, right? Like she was celebrated in a big way and it does feel like people are like, yes, come over and try it and be part of the community and it's like whatever some days will be good some days you won't um i also think like even from the respect of like dnfs it's way more you know like it seems way more acceptable because obviously stuff goes crazy yeah um thinking of blake's i don't know his slatin something from brooks he just like he's preparing for this forever for the 100k and he like fell at mile 14 or something he's like had to pull the plug and it's not like the end of the world it's just like yeah smart decision particularly in a race where you can just like crack literally um yeah so yeah i mean it didn't feel judgmental at all and i don't mean to bring up blake's dnf but it was just like no yeah part of the sport and it's like actually pretty common to be like oh i'd like ding myself up too hard today i can't finish um which is totally different for us from a mentality perspective. Yeah. I mean, all, all my friends were like so excited you were trying it. And then you posted a little on your social and everyone was like, so the comments were just like so pumped. And so it's not that the road running community is mean or bad. I mean, I love it. That's where I live, but it was just definitely a different vibe. And I'm glad that you are experiencing it. It was just so like, you just suffer together and then you celebrate and, and yeah, you celebrate the people who ran fast. It's exciting, but it's like everyone, I don't know. It just has a different, a different feel. You go through it, right? Like you could kind of talk about like, I feel like that's why people like Boston so much too. Cause there's those hard parts that like kick your ass. And like my buddy Larry says, Boston will chew up. It's whether or not it spits you back out. That makes the difference of whether you have a good day or not. And that's like, it's almost like trail running is going to chew you up. It's going to spit you out. But if you still finish and you share those stories afterwards, like that's the connection, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. I feel like you handled it better than I did because I got caught up in like the racing part of it. And then I remember having thoughts like, I want a mountain lion to come grab me right now. Like, please put me out of my misery. I've never suffered like that in my life. I was coming, you know, like it was the Leadville Marathon. and then you come down for like a lot of it. And I was just like, I chose to do this. Like, why did I do this to myself? Like, I will never do this again. I will never do it again. But then, and then once I finished again and got some food, I was like, I kind of want to do it again. I kind of want to go further. For sure. I mean, I just feel like that's like the racing mentality anyways. If you did it right or wrong, just like never again. And then your racer mind is like, well, next time I'm going to do this. Right. It's like, well, I'm not going to go out as hard next time for sure. I'm not going to get caught up, you know, and like the next thing I know, I was like searching for another race. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that you're looking for another trail race. No, not now. God, I wish I could trail race. It's so fun. But like I, you know, I, my left leg only comes a couple inches off the ground. So trail racing is probably out for me. Yeah. but cheering. I know someone just got into a race and asked me to crew and I was like, I really want to, but I, I literally don't know that I would be so uptight the whole time and nervous about myself that I don't think I would really be helping. Yeah. Like I would be, when I run on anything like semi rocky or anything, I have to pay so much attention and I'm so hyper-focused that it's like, I couldn't help you. Just in my own world, I'd actually hurt you because you'd be like, are you okay? Are you okay? But I can come out and cheer and I can be at an aid station and help you change your shirt or your socks or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I can be like, fill your bottle up. Yeah. Okay. Well, the other thing that we were talking about a little bit before we started was you said many times, like I'm, it just fits into the schedule. It's not my like goal race. Um, and I'm just here to like learn and experience and everyone, not everyone, but there was a lot of people that are like, whatever, she's going to crush it. She's going to do this. And so like, how was that? Like managing that, like, you know, what kind of shape you're in, you were honest the whole time about I'm not in great shape yet. And yet there's this, I think it's because there's just so much excitement that you're trying it, but there was like this chatter of like, oh, we get to see what she has. And even though you were like, I'm not here to win, I'm here to like experience, like how was that for you managing that? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a challenge and it is like, I guess in the back of your mind as a competitor and you can speak on your experience. I'm always like, well, maybe, I don't know, see what happens. And like, you just can't fake the distance. I mean, we know that from the marathon, obviously, and then tack on the extra miles. Um, so it's hard because you want to like, kind of get swept into it and be like, well, maybe I can run well. Uh, but it like inevitably is going to bite you in the ass. And I think I was aware of that. And, you know, it was like, I want to have 24 to 26 decent miles and feel good about it. I mean, I think if I had truly mentally let myself switch into, yeah, I'm actually racing. Um, I would be so disappointed right now. Like this was a disaster. It went terrible. Like I thought I could compete. I'm not going to be any good at this. Like I should just give up. Like all of those things would be floating through my mind. Um, but I was like, I thought that was a great experience. I want to do it again. I got the objective for the day that I needed. Um, and like if other people are disappointed or like are going to use this as a measuring stick for my ability to succeed in the trail. That's totally fine. They're welcome to do that. Um, but you know, at some point I'll get back out into another race and then have a chance to prove myself properly, hopefully. So there's, there's always another opportunity. And I do feel like media in general, when we talk about this, like wants to sell a story, they want to have something to get people excited. And that's a good thing. Right. Um, but the stories when they don't match, uh, I guess it's problematic. What's your experience with that? I mean, I think you talked about it a little bit with Leadville where it was like, I don't know. You know, I thought like everyone was like, I think you can win. And so then that was in the back of my mind. And that's definitely why at the beginning I went out way too hard. Cause I was like, well, I got to keep the leaders in sight, you know? Um, and I was not winning that day. Even if I hadn't gone out too hard, I wasn't winning. Maybe I could have been third, but I definitely was not going to win. And I, when I first decided to do it, I was like, I just want to see what this is like. But then it was like, you know, like a little, like a little YouTube series thing happened or a little documentary thing. And then, you know, all the articles and then the next thing, you know, it's like, Kara Goucher switching to trail and it got bigger than it needed to be. You know what I mean? Like it, it got way too big for what I was really ready for. And I can, I could see how that, I could see it building with you a little bit, like everybody wanting you on their pod, which is awesome. We want, we want that excitement, but also you're trying to temper it with like, like, unlike you, I did switch to be like, okay, I'm going to try to win, which I wasn't ready to. I didn't have the experience to, I didn't have the training up at that high of elevation. I mean, I had gone up to Leadville twice. That's not enough time to race really hard up at starting at 11,000 feet or whatever, you know, like it just, it, I wasn't prepared and it's, it's okay. Like I, it was a, it was, I was going to say it was a great experience. It was a horrible experience, but I learned so much and I, and I got, um, I've, I've like met a new community that was so awesome to me. And then it really made me want to try again and be more prepared and be more patient. But yeah, it got, it got bigger than I was ready for. And I just, I could see that with you. Everyone's like, does, does, does. And I know you and you were like so honest of this is just the beginning of the year and it just fits as like a good training run and experience And then I glad that you were able to not just go out and try to rip from the beginning and be like all right I just going to try you know you were like no no no Yeah I for sure would have stopped at 19. I would have been like, nope, but that's good. I'm glad that you were able to do that and be like, no, I'm actually not ready to go try to rip and win this yet. I'm here gathering data. I'm here learning about myself. And I think like, that's why I'm excited for you because it seems like you're, you're taking the time to learn it. You know what I mean? And you have to ignore everyone else's expectations. I will be, I'm always pretty honest with my, where my fitness is and what my expectations are. And it's totally possible that, you know, I'll be doing data collection for two years and be like, actually the data says I'm terrible at this. Like that's, I'm also 42. So the, you know, time's against me. It's not on my side here. Um, but I, I think that there's a patient way to approach it, but with a sense of urgency, right? If that makes sense, I feel like that is what I have to get just right. Yeah. So if I'm have too much sense of urgency in the first one, because I'm like, I have to prove myself right now or else like, then this goes terribly, terribly wrong, even though it didn't go great. Um, those 26 miles don't even get done effectively. And then it's like, I hate this. I don't want to do it at all. So I feel like it's fairly strategic, but I'm not saying that that guarantees I'll be like, oh yeah, I figured it out. I'm going to be successful. It's like, I'm just trying to do it in this balancing act of like learn, but learn quickly. So I don't know. It's awesome. It's exciting. Okay. Well, we were talking before the call about, I don't know how much you paid attention to the Olympics this week because you were training and getting ready, but we were talking about the figure skater, Ileon Malinan, I think is his name, the American skater who is like two-time world champion, like overwhelming favorite. And we watched it and he was so excited right before we went out to skate. He like fist pumped with his dad. And I was like, this kid's going to crush, you know, and then it just fell apart. And afterwards, he talked about like, the pressure is different than any pressure I've ever felt. And then I saw a lot of like chatter online about how like NBC is at fault for this and the media is at fault for this and we put too much pressure. And I just kind of wanted to get your perspective on that as someone who's been to two Olympic games and kind of in a smaller sense was feeling that a little bit this weekend too, I'm sure. Just like, is it the media's fault when an athlete crumbles under pressure? Is it just life? I don't know. Yeah. No, I saw that's the headlines too in the aftermath, which that's the media's fault. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Reaction for sure. But I think that's what is so wild about the games because it is a higher pressure moment. It's only every four years and you gotta qualify and then you have to get through the rounds and it's managing that that makes it so special when you win right but yeah I don't I mean I don't think that anybody should back down from the storytelling ahead of time or the amount of pressure I think that that's part of what makes it special and you have like that's you have to have between the ears and that's like oh one like the, you know, it's 99% mental, which is not true at all, but it's a lot mental as well. Yeah. Um, and you know, I think that's, what's fun about it is you can try to tell people like, well, it's just 26.2. You do that all the time. Like it's no different. It's just another 26.2, but it's very different. And I think you see that with a guy like, like him and even Michaela Schifrin like her Olympic track record has been so tough and I don't know if it's like stacked against her with the course or you know just not events that favor her or I mean it's not true because she does really well in the circuit but you know for some reason or another she struggles at the games and it's like like what is it why is it different um so she's another example and And then I do think that the chatter in the rounds and like those lead up events, like a Schifrin, for example, it's like, oh, disappointing finishes off the podium in her first event. Maybe she can pick it up and do better. Like that starts to like the response starts to create more pressure when you're already in a huge pressure cooker. So that part's been interesting. Or even with like Chloe Kim, like, oh, she's been involved in and now she gets silver. It's like that's not a failure. That's not a disappointment. Right. I don't know. Maybe like if she expressed it that way, then run with the story. Right. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah. I don't know if it's because I work for NBC, but I got defensive about like the whole, you know, you're putting too much pressure on the athlete. I feel like, I mean, especially with Ileon, I mean, he's the greatest ice skater in the world. Like he just is. And so I don't think there's a problem with showing him and showcasing him and building up his story so we can get to know him. What I don't like is that athletes are human. And you sometimes like I was crying when I watched him skate. Adam was like so emotional, too. We were like, we've never met this kid. We'll never meet this kid. Right. But we've both been in situations not on such a big stage, but where we were expected to do something and we didn't. And we know what that feels like. Right. And we were just so disappointed for him. And he was such a trooper, like celebrating with the other athletes and then doing the interviews after, which had to be so hard. And I think that's, unfortunately, that's all part of it. Like, you know, like I think about in 08, I was a medal favorite. I had won the bronze medal the year before. And I crumbled under that pressure. I is the same exact race. The same two women went one, two that beat me in Osaka. It was all the same other women that I had raced a year before and I just couldn't handle it. And so I feel for him so much, but what I, but I don't have a problem with the building the athletes up necessarily beforehand. What I don't like is, you know, the New York Times saying quad God fails, you know, and people being like, Oh, he got what he deserved. He called himself the quad God or whatever. It's like, guys, you're like so armchair quarterbacking right now. Like you, this guy, he lives and breathes this every day and he is the best and, but he is still human, you know, or like Chloe Kim. She's still the best snowboarder ever. She has two golds and a silver and that doesn't even talk about world titles. And she came in with like a, she had to wear a, she tore her labrum. Like she had to wear like a thing the whole time. You know what I mean? It's just like, yeah, it just, I guess it's, and you have actually talked about this before, but it does feel like we build people up and then there's this whole slew of people who love to tear them down. And I hate that part of it. Well, I mean, the thing is, it's not constructive at all. It's like, I promise you, no one feels worse than the person who didn't deliver on their ability. Like he knows exactly how prepared he was, what he put into it. Like no headline. I mean, he already feels terrible. Right. Adding to it is just piling on for the sake of piling on. Right. I agree. I don't know. That's a hard one. Yeah. It was interesting. Our Chris McClung, who's normally with us. He's not. That's why he does have sound effects. Wait, hold on. Perfect. He's been in Canada with his sons on a ski trip and he was texting us last night that it's so different being there because like they're just so proud of their Olympians no matter how they do. And it's just like I just wish we had that a little bit of like I do feel like we love to see the fail. We love to see the fall. And I hate that so much. And people are like, well, now he's going to be like Simone Biles and come back and win. Or Nathan Chen who faltered in Pyeongchang and then came back and won in Beijing. And I'm like, he shouldn't have to win to finish this story. He is the best and he is great. And one moment doesn't define all of that. And anyway, it just, it made me sad. And you see it every time. And Michaela Schiffrin is a great example. People are so angry about her online. I'm like, I'm pretty sure she's trying. Right. It's just a lack of effort or caring. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, I think, I guess the other side of it is, I do think that that's just a vocal minority. And again, it's always like the shit comment that sticks the most. And you're like, I can't believe they would say that. But then there's overwhelmingly positive. And we forget to look at that. As much as we like to see people tearing to like to tear down, it's like we love to like stick to that story and feel like that's the overwhelming commentary. but I mean I guess in my experience with London games were obviously cracked into the pressure before I even got to the start line it was like medal or bust and like I busted um but people were super excited to see the gear and like oh were you on the team what did you do how did it go and obviously there's the whole did you win a medal but that wasn't the biggest question it was like that right oh awesome that's congratulations I'm glad you got to represent the country and And I felt that too, even when it felt like it was a total failure at that game. There's no other word for it. And people were like, no, that's amazing. Thank you for representing the country. I'm like, I'm not in the military. Hey, you represented us. Like, wow. Yeah. I don't know. It's easy to get locked into. And don't get me wrong. The New York Times is the biggest, boldest print you can have, right? And I don't know. I think the media could do better in the aftermath of being a little bit more fair, maybe. Yeah, just remembering that they're human beings, right? And I think you kind of just nailed it, though. The people that actually matter, whether it's the people that like, it was so fun to watch you, or you're from my hometown or whatever, that like, that's who matters, right? And the people who want to be negative, they actually don't matter. But it's hard to, it's hard to ignore that stuff. Yeah, completely. I mean, that's the theme. It's like, where do you want to put your attention? What voices do you want to listen to? yeah that's really up to you and then you can decide how you feel about it and kind of make up your own mind but there's always going to be chatter around you especially in those especially at the olympic stage that's just yeah part it is what it is yeah cool okay well look we made it an hour oh you know we didn't do today we didn't do a lagoon let's let's save them for next week We'll save it for next week. Yeah. Well, let's hear a top five. You want to start us off? Do you have anything? I have a couple of things, but I think people, I think that we mostly want to hear from you. So I think you should do three. Oh, I don't. Okay. I'll start. And then if I can't round it out, I've thought about this one a lot. I'm going with Tara Dower. Nice. Just a freaking trail beast. And like, she just moved her way up through that race. It was super patient, super smart. You talk about someone like kind of shutting out the noise and just doing her thing, but also she's just, she finishes every race bloody and it's just such a badass thing. I'm like, I want to be a Tara Dower. Like I think about that when I'm running downhills, but I don't look like her yet, but that I want to get there where I'm not afraid to just send it. And that's like her image in my mind. So hat tip to her. That's cool. Okay. I'm going to go with some of the track NBC family people are doing the Winter Olympics and Betsy Riley is also producing. So I want to shout out Betsy, Lee Diffie, Lewis Johnson and Bill Spalding. They've just been crushing it over there. And it's made me like kind of envious. Like I wish I could call another sport. But they've just been doing such a great job. Lee does all the sled races. And I was watching Luge Relay the other day, which I didn't even know that was a thing. Like they come down and hit the thing and the next person goes and he was so excited. Lewis has just been having great interviews and Bill Spaulding has been just crushing the speed skating. So shout out to all of them. They're doing a great job repping like a whole different experience. And it's impressive that they can do that. Like I live in my little distance world and they're just doing it with all these other sports. Yeah, it's really cool. So. Nice. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to shout out CB who is over there hammering away for Procter and Gamble, she posted some stuff today of like the flow and the format of the NBC stories. It was like, Oh my God, this would like blow my brain. And that was cool to see. Cause I'm sure that's like a Betsy, you know, like she's putting that shit together. And like, so it was like worlds colliding. Um, but yeah, her team USA, uh, Procter and Gamble collaborations have been awesome. And on top of it, she's out there hammering out her marathon training for London. I'm just like, I don't know how you do it. So I don't know how she does it. And she's like at events all day long from like 9am till 10pm. And she's still getting her training in for London. Yeah. So yeah, I'm always like no excuses, Des. Yeah, I know. She's always good to be like, stop complaining and get get it done. Okay. That's a good one. I am going to shout out Elena Myers Taylor, bobsledder and she is awesome I don't even know how I met her maybe through Clean Sport Collective years ago but she's just such a positive person and she's already had won a bunch of medals in the bobsled but she had never won a gold and yesterday she won gold in the mono the mono it's called mono something I don't know just one person bobsled and it was so she's 41 she's been doing it for so long she has two children and it's like I I can't think of like a happier person to win this gold medal who deserved you know what I mean it's just like cool story yeah just a cool story being there so many times she was already decorated but a bunch of bronzes and silvers and now she has her gold so good job Alayna I was so happy when I saw that and yeah it was like pretty really cool like both of her sons are hearing impaired so her dad was or their dad was like like signing to them like your mom won your mom won you know it's just super cool she's like the full package so super happy for her yeah I that's that is like a full circle story where it like closes it ties tie the bow and it's perfect um but they don't all have to be like that you can see right you didn't get the gold it's just like there's a feel-good element to it for sure yeah Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. I'm going to go with, uh, just black Canyon in general. Um, the trail was epic is such a nice like run. I would love to get on more of it. I think, uh, the races themselves were phenomenal. I think they were super, um, entertaining, just fun to watch people rip. They're getting faster and faster. Um, yeah. And the organization of it was, was awesome. So I I enjoyed my first trail experience and I was glad it was here. And the awards are super sweet. I'm not a medal person, but I might save that one. Yeah. So just all around a great experience. I would recommend it to friends. That's awesome. All right. We'll talk about it later. Well, congrats to you. You've checked that box. You're officially a trail athlete and I can't wait to see how it progresses for you. It's going to be fun. We're on our way. We'll be right back.