Why Situationships Hurt More Than Breakups

Hello and welcome back to the U of podcast. I'm Jordanne Abraham. And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordanne, virtually. We are doing a virtual taping. We, you know, listen, we did our guests and now mama's home. I'm back. She's back and we're going to do these as close to airing as possible and we'll keep these energetic and awesome virtual. You know, if you like the YouTube, we want you to go to YouTube and see our facial expressions. And you can see inside of Jordanne's home. You can see the green behind you. You can see my my southern, you know, UUP studio here in Delray Beach. I was just walking the beach. How are you? What's going on? I'm good. I think we both need to get more character in our background. Yeah, we both, we both need something. We need like a painting. Sammy is actually coming. I have art. I just don't know how to hang it. And Sammy is actually coming over after this recording to like put up my gallery wall behind me. She's, we did a recording. I filled in for Eileen on the at-batches pod the other day and she was like, you've been living there long enough. Like you need to get it up. Yeah, I didn't see Sammy as the, you know, put on the tool belt type. I didn't know she was a gallery wall. Oh, totally. I don't know. I didn't know she knew her way around a, a, a handsaw. She's very, I think she's very into at least attempted DIY. She's like, I think she's paint. She painted her own office, but then she had to get it repainted. Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I shouldn't let her touch the walls. Yeah. I, I, when we were in college, you know, Eileen, Sammy and I lived together our senior year. That's why that's kind of like how we started batches. And we were in college. First ever studio, the first ever batches office HQ. Yes, exactly. She wanted to paint one of our college walls. She wanted to paint it like Starry Night, the Vincent Van Gogh painting. Yeah. And Eileen was like, thank you for explaining to me the garbage human. Did you know? I don't know. I, I didn't know you're right. Yeah. Anyway, Eileen was like, no, she was like, what do you mean? Starry Night is the easiest painting of all time, which I don't think is, is true. What an incel to Van Gogh. I mean, what? That's been like a running joke in our, in our friendship. Basically, that is like Starry Night is like, Sammy's like, of course I could do Starry Night, but she does not have DIY stuff. That's called senior year delusion. You know, oh, it's all about who you know. I could paint Starry Night, of course. Yes. A lot of senior year was me and Sammy suggesting, I loved the mug, by the way, suggesting absurd things and Eileen just shooting them down because they were ridiculous. And that's why she's the CEO. We should get a dog for the apartment. Eileen was like, absolutely not. And the only responsible one in the room. Yes. The only thing we got, the only thing we got away with was a hookah. A hookah? Let us bring in a hookah. We bought a hookah. I've never understood the hookah thing and please excuse my cultural blind spot. If this is something that's important to your grandma. I'm just saying I never understood the hangout that surrounded a hookah. I just wasn't for me. Did you ever go to a hookah lounge? Oh yeah. Oh, many of my in my day. I like I like I hookah. I like mama hookahs. It needs a cooler name. But yes, I have I have done I've done many a hookah. I don't know. I smoked many a hookah. In fact, he's a cooler name. This is the white chick starting a matcha company that's been around a thousand years. I don't know about the name matcha, you know, to who has like a name. Isn't that? Yeah, that's like saying right. A Shabbat needs a better name, Jordana. I don't know. I mean, it might be. I've always said, you know, Hanukkah needs better songs. Anyway, love the mug. Thank you. I got a new mug. If you're on YouTube, you can see my collection of weird like. Chachkas continues my single or not not single my inner relationship, but living alone. Man pad is acquiring more and more titty shaped items. My girlfriend helped me pick this out actually. Really? Wow. She's into it. I found another titty weirdo. She going to decorate the apartment with a titty memorabilia. It's probably going to come down to like, like if we ever moved in together, I'd get like a titty room, like I can have my titty corner with all weird. That's how you get the traditional cheesy man cave. Right. That well, that's probably the invention of the man cave. That's right. Put your shit in that corner and then we'll call it a man cave. It's really his shit corner. Yes. Here's the shit that you think is looks good, which I know doesn't look good, but I don't want to be like that big of an asshole. So you can put it all in that area where I don't have to see it. You're exactly right. Which is why I have a question that I was talking about my talking to myself about that I need you to explain something for me. I need you to. Okay, let's hear it. Woman's spleen, the Amanda West and Sierra thing. And why people and just as clean as you can explain it to me. How much do you know? I know very little. Let me end and I know I just I dip into the show via clips on TikTok. I dip into the summer house world via the certain characters. And again, from I have my ear up to the wall at Betches, you know, listening to what the kids are talking about. So but I in a very husband who watches the show from the back of the room way. I'm that with all of the Betches news. And this feels like it has gotten so much bigger. Yeah, you're in there and you're in the deep, deep in the hole. I'm deep. So can you explain it just like the facts instead of I don't want I don't want who's side you're on. We can get to that. But because this is a relationship show and it seems like this is a relationship drama, so it's worth talking about here. Indeed. Indeed. Yes, definitely relationship drama. So I mean, you know the concept of summer house. It's like a bunch of people living in a house in the Hamptons together during the summer and it's now in 10 seasons. So the characters are pretty well developed. It's quite literally. Do I need to start that? Really? OK. You're it's quite literally they took a New York City concept and turned it into a show. A New York City concept being and again, this concept exists for other major cities where people move to after college. Hey, all of us are going to get a house on the Hamptons, a very expensive place that parties a little bit. And every weekend we're going to take our city life and we're going to move it out to the Hamptons and do a weekend and then come back again. And that that's the show, right? Yes, relatable concept. Now I'm now it doesn't make quite as much sense because the characters like the oldest character is like 43 years old. And that's not really what most 43 year olds are doing. No normal 43 year old human living and working in New York is going to the Hamptons in a share house in a share house. That that is all of us would describe that person as creepy loser. If they're a man and hardworking woman, if it's a woman, you know, like I look at like. Yeah, one of the women, Lindsay, I think is like 39 and she has a baby. So it doesn't make any sense. Not not realistic, not relatable. Nobody's doing it started off. Way started off totally. They were 10 years younger. That's the concept of the show. Yeah. OK. Sorry, I keep interrupting. I'm very excited about this conversation. No, it's fine. I'll try to do my best to keep the story straight. I'm I'm like I haven't done like Sammy's done it more much more intense of a deep dive than I have. But here's what I've gathered. Sammy did a deep dive on something. Can't believe Sammy's. Shout out Sammy. A listener of the show. So thanks. Yeah, seriously. Thank God for Sammy. She explains everything to me. She does. She does explain. Sammy explains it all. Remember Clarissa explains it all anyway. That's a good series. I think that would be fun. Would be. I just idea. OK. Yeah, there we go. So I also were recording this on March 31st. So I don't know what will have come out by the time this airs next week. First week of April. I might see how much you're getting ahead of this. Please don't come for me. I don't want people to yell at me about like, you know, I can. And like when we watch love is blind, like I could have the wrong take by the time this comes out. Sure. Things could come out. Yes. So the rumors swirling. OK, so Kyle and Amanda were are married. Right. Season one of the show. She's like they're kind of in a situation ship. He's like we're kind of broke up with her to go on the show. But they'll like she'll come over and hook up. Now she's like a regular. They're married, right? Or they were. I would say that that's where Amanda's love came from. A lot of women who related to her plight. I've been hooking up with this guy who won't give me the time of day. Won't commit. Finally, she gets him to commit. And we realize he's not that much of an aspirational boyfriend. And then she divorces him and all the women cheer like they're part of the Wizard of Oz and they've been freed from the Wicked Witch of the West. That's kind of my understanding. Yes. Yes. And this divorce came out like the fact that they were separating. I don't know if they're divorced yet. They're separated. This came out like a few months ago. So recently, yes, I'm aware of that. And I am aware of I heard the cheers. It was like when Biden won New York City cheered when they found out that Amanda had ended things. And it seemed as though they were holding hands with the show while this was going on. It felt like it was somewhat in in service of promoting a show that they're on and they're too old to be on. And it could be their last few seasons on it. But I keep I'm sorry. OK, no, I think that's definitely true, because as you're hearing this news, I think this was like right before the season came out. So one good promotion for the season. But then on the season, you see him like acting like he says, like, I think he gets drunk and he calls her like a dumb bitch. That might not be the exact words he used with along those lines. And so she's gathered. She's gaining like a lot of in the court of public opinion. Everyone is like there's like there was news that he there is. It came out that he was like he had like slept at a fan's apartment or something like that. OK, there's a few things where it's like the Internet is team Amanda as they've heard they've heard she's separated. And it's very yes, Queen go girl. To me, it seems like one of their central arguments in the show is that he kind of thinks she's like a little lazy. Like they are they work together on Loverboy. You know what Loverboy is? Yes, the drink that he makes. But he's constantly every every season. He's like Loverboy is about to go bankrupt. I owe five hundred thousand dollars and I'm five hundred thousand dollars deep in Loverboy, whatever it is. But he like basically asked her to quit her. She's like she was like a design. She was like a digital design person. OK, convinced her to quit her job and work on Loverboy. Also, they promoted on the show. So it's just kind of like their business and their lives are pretty intertwined. But a lot of his complaining, at least in earlier seasons, was that she was constantly just kind of like on the couch, smoking pot, not really working. And he's like trying to build this this company and this brand. So if when it comes to like the money thing, it always kind of seemed like it wasn't like she if she was the power person in the relationship, at least that's not how it came off to me. I maybe that's a more recent development. Well, now she's coming out with a line of bikinis or something. Well, we wish her the best. But I so so OK. So they break up going to the season. You're watching the breakup happen, which is, you know, you're watching the rocks. Yeah, you're watching, you know, the ending, but nothing is juicier to a, you know, a female forward audience. Then breakup, we know is coming and we get to watch how that happens along the way. Right. Yes. Of course. Look for clues. You look for hints. You're any any gender would like that. I enjoy that as well. OK. Right. OK. So basically, the show is currently airing, but now there's rumors like unsubstantial, not from my to my knowledge, not like fully substantiated rumors, but on Dumois and Reddit and like all the places where a lot of these things that wind up being true do start that Amanda is hooking up with this guy West on the show, who's been on the show. He's a new he's a relatively new person. He's been on like two or three. I think this is his third season. I've only seen West live from a distance. He kind of seems like from my angle of not knowing the show well. And again, this is I'm being upfront about how much I know. West always seemed like central casting for guy you'd hook up with after a divorce. He's he's on. I guess that like he just he was at a party I was at. And he just looked like he was wearing the Lenny Kravitz meme of all the blankets. Like right. He looked unshoured, unkept. You wouldn't bring him home. That's a lot. Yeah, you'd want to crack at him because he's a good looking dude. He was a lot smaller than I thought he would be. Isn't he a hockey player or a former hockey player? Is he? I don't know. I didn't hear that. Maybe. I don't know what his origin tale is. Anyway, I could see that. Yeah. But he is he kind of like it strikes me as like sort of like playing dumb fuck boyish. Yeah, it seems like he's good at it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of like, oh, you were upset about that. I didn't know you were upset that I, you know, didn't invite you to my parents. All right, that I broke up with you casually like right before we went to a party. Like that was I didn't really help me. He'll be like, oh, I didn't realize that was like going to make you so upset. Right. No, he's good at that. That's that's a great move. At the party, I was that he was properly aloof. Like he just like dancing by himself while draped. Right. He's very like, oh, like me. Yeah. Women women were aware of him, though. I could tell me, you know, jealous in the corner of this party, drinking a club soda splash of cranberry, just staring at him, being utterly cool and look like someone who hadn't gone to the gym in a month. But looks great. Yeah. I I was really jealous of his his his standing in the room. Yeah, he's kind of one of those people where it's like he does seem to like. And I get his central plot line is basically that Amanda's best friend on the show seemingly in real life, too. So like they seem to like come out with various supportive statements of each other with each other a lot. They seem like they're friends in real life, but on the show, they're definitely BFFs. And basically, so Sierra is is her best friend and they she and West were hooking up on his like first season and then he did this kind of like clueless, douchebaggy like situation ship thing, which you might do at like 27 years old. I don't know how old he is, like probably like late 20s. Yeah. I could, you know, tell his oldest time. Sure. You know, haven't we all seem like it seemed like they were dating in the summer house. They leave the house and then yeah. Right. And then like this was this is also they filmed this before his season came out and it basically kind of came out that he was like to her that he wanted to see like if he could get a lot more girls once the show came out and kind of like ended it with her like right before it aired. So he seems like this great guy who's really into her and it sort of played out. It seemed like it played out like right before the show aired. They're about to go to a party and he's like, I think we're better off as friends. OK, which didn't go well. I can't see how it was. And it came out right. Basically, like it sort of came out that that was his reasoning. Like I'm about to be like on national television. I kind of want to like see what I can get. The most honest reason ever given for a breakup, in my opinion. Yeah, not great, but not great. But so this is her best friend. And then they basically had this sort of tense relationship since. But then this summer, it seems like they're almost like getting kind of flirty again. The friend, Sierra and West. And so the fact that it comes out that he's actually hooking up with Amanda is very scandalous, if it's true, which people are debating if it's true. So the the the allegations is that Amanda hooked up with West, who is Sierra's act. Are hooking up and potentially dating. I think I've heard that one, too, like they're really dating. Oh, wow. I mean, it does feel like they both have their choice. I mean, again, when your reason for ending things things in the first place is I could be with a ton of other women and I don't like you as much as I like trying to hook up right now at this part of my life, which is like a hard thing to hear. But like I kind of like that type of honesty, you go, OK, like, yeah, I guess, you know, I'd rather you do this than cheat on me. You know, like that's the option. And, you know, and then to hear that, like, you're well, sure. But you're admit you're admitting I can get a lot of different women via this public platform I have. And then you go to the one woman that's on the show that's friends with your ex. It's like fucked up. Like you. Right. Yeah. You've acknowledged not having the the wherewithal that you can hook up with anyone or a group. Right. Or more people than before you were on a hit reality TV series, whatever. Right. But then it seems like it would be a weird move for her to do just because she had so much public favor in this divorce with with Kyle, where everyone's kind of like watching him treat her like shit. For her to do this, she's kind of like lost all of her her reputational thing. But no one's really ever seen her single on the show. So it's kind of like maybe this is who she is. Right. Never having seen her single on the show is a is a really good interesting thing. Like this idea that because it wasn't my idea of her on the show was like her, Sierra and Paige would like sit in bed like the parents from Willy Wonka, judging everyone for going out. Like, wasn't that their thing? That was a big part of it. Yeah. Like, why would you be on a show? Like, I just didn't I never understood the aspirational quality of I didn't understand. I guess I understand like because people hated Kyle so much, she became aspirational. But like, I don't really see it. Right. She kind of always seemed boring. There was never like a clip that I was like, wow, Amanda, like this chick, you know, like. Yeah. I mean, I think her relevancy came from like her fighting her fights with Kyle. There was a season where he cheated on her and she found out about it. It's like all a little bit in relation. I think she's and she kind of says that on the show, like she's trying to like discover who she is outside of this relationship, which again, is also what she does for work up until like very recently. And I think she I think she's like nine years younger than Kyle, I think. So she started on this show at like 24. Got it. Yeah. I think it is kind of hard. That's another layer of the relationship thing is it is kind of know who you are outside of your husband, boyfriend, if you've been with them since you're 24. Right. If you broke up at like 30. And now you're in this. I think she's like 33, 34. Right. So that's got to be scary. Who am I? And then the guy, you know, the people people hook up with after a breakup is someone that's like almost like easy a little bit. Like there's like a there's an element of like comfort. I don't know how to comfort and I don't know how to like go open new conversations with new people. Let me go to the people that I'm already comfortable talking to. Like I can understand that. Yeah. I think you saw that with Carl and Lindsay, too, where like when they got engaged and then broke up, it's kind of like, I do think if you're newly single or even if you're just like, if you're single and you're kind of I guess you're famous, they're famous. There is an element of I can't just date like a normal person and go on a date. Then that person like that person's going to tell everyone what I was like on the date or that person's going to like right screenshot everything I say. And so I think there's probably a fear of outsiders. So you're more likely to find comfort and date the people who are already on the show because they have kind of as much to lose as you do. Right. Well, I'm happy you caught me up. I I'm happy to be here. I don't I do believe the rumors. I believe where there's smoke, there's fire. I think they probably hooked up. I don't think her and Sierra's friends is maybe we wanted to believe. I think that they, you know, to me, if you're the one who sits in bed while everyone goes out, like you're probably not the type to like go find a new boyfriend or go date really in a like a fun way. Like, I don't know. There's this like brand of influencer that's like to me is like the permission influencer. And I see it a lot now where it's like they give permission to boring people to be boring and like not that fun. You know, like I thought, boring people need role models too. Right. And it's like this person that like, oh, if you were friends with them, you they're hilarious. If you even knew them, they're hilarious. And you're like, I've heard about that person my whole life. Like the, oh my God, once you get to know them, they're like the funniest person. And then they're like, literally a nothing who sits on the corner of situations and leaves everything early. And it's like, I think there's this like person that people grab on to is like, they're successful and they don't bring a lot to the table. So like, I think that's like where her, you know, her like her flowers come from a lot. Like casting keeps bringing them back so that I can see why they're like, I don't need to go out to get, you know, re contracted on this show. Right. Why would I season? I'll be there with my jam jams on ready to go. Do you have a question for me, even though I didn't shut up? I did, but I want to save it for our Friday episode. Yes. Let's save it for the Friday episode. You'll that's a big, that's what we call a tease in the industry. If you're out there and listening and watching on YouTube, I'm going to be in St. Louis. I'm also in Vegas coming up and I'm going to be in Norwalk, Connecticut. I got Foxwood's Casino in Connecticut. I'm going to be at Maine. I'm going to Portland, Maine, West Hampton Beach, Jordanna, you should come to the show. We're going to get you the show. I want to. Yes. It's fourth of July weekend, you said, right? That's right. Maybe I might be asking you for a place to stay. Me, Charlie, Lucy, they need a sitter or a dog sitter for Ronnie. Please stay. I would love to have you. Maybe I'll come stay with you guys and Mike, the whole. All of us will be like Amanda. We'll all lay in the bed together and judge everyone and Emily. We'll get her in the ball too. Yes. I want to Willy Wonka style. We'll wonk it up. So in the book, I got a book coming out, Walking Red Flag. We're discussing a book tour right now. The book, I'll show it on camera. I forgot to take mine last week. I'm so annoyed. You got to get it. Listen, the people are talking. It just got its first review. I know I heard you. You told us last week. Oh, I told you last week. Glowing reviews. Glowing reviews. Critically acclaimed. I'm going to tape the audio book after this. I get, you know, the job never ends for your dear old uncle Jay Trek. You wrote the book. Now you have to read it out loud. Oh, horrific. So what's going on with you? Oversharing. I love listening. Oversharing. Check it out. Yeah. That's I haven't taken on too many new projects given the current state of my household, but oversharing still out every Tuesday, Monday, if you're a subscriber. Well, here's a new project. Get that guest room ready. I'm coming on the 4th of July, West Hampton Beach. I'm getting it for the for the man who is who could live stream my house into, you know, a critically panned, panned or bad? Bad, I think panned. Bad. Yes. That movie got panned. Yeah. Well, yes, I'm going to need to make everything look perfect, because I know I know you're going to give an in depth review. I love taking a tour and judging. I look when I look at a room, I go, OK. That's all I say when the person and here's the guest bedroom. Huh. That's me taking a tour. You should bring a notepad. No. Like you're doing an inspection. So this is the guest bedroom. And then you just hear a pencil writing. Yeah. Yes. And I will make sure the pool is is open by then. It better be. Oh, my God. If that pool ain't open, I'm never going to hear the end of it. Get ready to get ready to hear from me. Let me ask you one last question about the West, Sierra, Amanda situation. You hook up with a guy who kind of played it aloof as you say it. If they were in a relationship, had a real break up. And then it's two years, three years later, and a man and him hook up. Is that as big a crime as there? Your former situation ship hooking up with a friend of yours? In a way, I actually think it's worse to hook up with a former situation ship. Yes. Because if it was a real break up, there's an element. If you really dated, there's an element of mutualness to any break up in terms of, like, it's not working. We gave it a try and it's not working. Right. And so there's a personality mismatch. It really just like they're not the person for me and both people kind of have to come to that point usually. I think with the situation ship thing, it's like this person, it felt like this person's like actively was like hurt. I think it would be like just more upsetting. It'd be more like, oh, you didn't choose me, but you chose my friend. And also like, you know how much this person like hurt me or you know how much this person affects me. And she talks about it quite often on the show about how she's affected by what happened between the two of them and you decided to still to still do it knowing that that would be like pretty painful. I think there's an element. You could have some break ups where like there's an element of not the person for me. Right. And I don't I think this is almost more because sometimes you're hurt more by these situations ships because because it didn't have a label. Yeah, I guess there's more of an open wound. So if she did hook up with West, that is meaner from her and also from West. Like they're both at fault. Like I think he gets a lot of times men get away with this stuff because it becomes. You know, the women argue about this and the guy kind of like sneaks away and is like now hooking up with another one of their friends. And like you're like, what? Yeah, you know, no, I mean, if true, he stinks too, for sure. Maybe potentially more. I don't know. But he's he's who we always knew he was. You know, like there's the old Dennis Allen, who was the coach of the Dennis Allen coach, the Arizona Cardinals football team, and they lost a famous game and he did this press conference and he goes, they are who they we thought they were. They are who we thought they were. Hi, I just wanted to get your your perspective on it. And I do think it matters for the dating world. Yeah. So we're going to bring it to us in the studio with a fun segment and a guest you wanted an update on hit it. Our next segment is something new and different sponsored by season three of Euphoria on HBO Max. We wanted to do something big for their big comeback. It's been five years since the events of season two and the stakes have never been higher. So it got us thinking. We hear a lot of stories on the show from people at messy, complex and surprising situations, but we don't always get a follow up. Like any good cliffhanger, it's hard not to wonder what happened next. So this segment is called What Are You Up To? We asked on Instagram who you'd want to hear from and the people requested a Veronica update, Veronica Stern. Thank you for coming back on the show. How are you? Good to see you. I'm so good. Thank you guys for having me. When people don't remember, we went to your apartment. We went to your apartment. We asked you a million questions about your dating life. This was back in, I think it was September, like about six months ago. Right. I remember it was like September. It was like it was the time of year I envied you the most being a young woman moving to New York City. Why? My life is horrible. Let me tell you everything. Well, you were a young woman moving to an apartment. I was. Yeah, not anymore. You are an old cat lady now. Yeah. No, but you at the time you were going to this apartment where it was going to be and you met the downstairs neighbors. There were guys or girls. There were you guys like in the cool neighborhood. You're in Brooklyn. And I was like, football season is happening. It's cooling down. It's not like a sweat box in the city. What a time to be young and, you know, in Brooklyn. This year, this is where all the stories come from. This is girls. This is, you know, this is done. You know, like this is great. Am I Lena Dunham? I feel like I'm more like Marnie. OK, this is my. I'm Marnie. I'll give you. So Marnie, tell us about what's going on. How's the apartment? So very clean. It's still super clean. It's good. I might have to move soon, which is so disappointing. But what happened? Everybody's just going their separate ways. And I'm kind of on the fence about staying at the end of an era. We'll remember all the Brooklyn. We had to get there. Yes. Our roommate, OK, who's a little sassy. She told you how it was. Introduced you to the downstairs neighbors. Yeah, that was it, really. No, but yeah, so I might have to move. Don't really want to. We'll see. But the biggest update is that I'm in a relationship. Wow. Bring the relationship back. Here we go. Tell us everything. How did you meet? When did you meet? Did you take our advice? Is that what helped? I am back together with an ex. OK, OK, ring the ex bell. Bring it there. OK, well, no, listen, I am too. Oh, OK. I am as well. OK, I feel very left out. I want to be back together. Come on, call up your ex. Let's go. Hey, I got two kids now. You want in? You want in now? Come on. And a lot of baggage. I got a lot of baggage. Yeah. So what happened? Who was the ex someone that you were that was who you were dating on tour? So, yeah, so this is the one that I met when I was in Toronto. So this is Toronto, man, we can call him. OK, the T.M. The T.M. trademark. There it is. And so, yeah, we had broken up in February of last year and we had been doing like long distance before that. And what happened is he like reached out to me one day randomly when I was on my way to a French class because I was trying to like stay educated and stuff. Look at you. And I was like, I was like stopped in my tracks. I was like, you know, like because I wanted to hear from him and like, like, suckle bleh. Literally exactly wee wee. Anyways, and so I was he was like, hey, we haven't chatted in a while. Like, do you want to have a chat tonight? And I was like, I'd love that, actually. And then we talked on the phone for like four hours. Yeah. Four. So we caught up. We caught up and remind me why you broke up. We broke up because of the distance, honestly. And also I was sort of at a time in my life where I was like, I hadn't moved yet out of my parents' house. I had this great job here. And I was just sort of like in this really weird transitional phase. And I wasn't sure how I was feeling about like starting and stopping my life every time I would visit him or go there. He came here. So I was just it just like didn't feel like the right time. I think that's a mature reason to end something. Hey, I have this new life I'm moving towards and new apartment. And also I'm not looking to, you know, settle down at what it was probably 23 at the time. Yeah, 25, 24. So OK, so you moved in the new place. Yeah, you got there. Did you meet the downstairs neighbors? We have we have interacted a few times. We never ended up having that party. No, we could not get our act together, guys. Listen, you had a great space for the backyard is so overgrown with weeds. We had talked to the boys about it. We were like, hey, like, when are we going to fix this? They were like, yeah, sure, like we can all go back here and like do a weed wacker. And I was like, we, you know, I said, first of all, we, that sounds like a boy job. Sorry, like I'm sorry. I'm not going back there with a weed wacker. Are you crazy? Excuse me, Gen Z. Holy shit. OK, boy job. It is OK. More importantly, it's in their apartment. Exactly. Their apartment space. I just I'm going to clean all of our bedrooms. I'm more I'm more laughing at the idea of these 25 year old men going and doing some light gardening on a place they're renting. Well, never going to happen. They want to have some girls over. Though they're in their mind, they're like, we'll find the girls out there without the. Oh, right. We'll find the hoes without the. Oh, so we want to hear about the relationship. Yes, anyways, it's long distance. Yes, this four hour call. And what's the first move after the four hour call? Like, how do we start this out? So basically, we were just like, we miss one another. We're trying to date around. It's not the same. And why don't we? Why are we like torturing ourselves if we just want to be with one another? And I was like, OK, but how are things going to be different this time? Like, I feel like last time what bogged us down was always feeling like, well, who's going to move and when are we going to do it? And, you know, all these things that were so early in our relationship, I just don't know if we need to focus on that. And so it's just like, what can be different this time? Can we like not focus on that as much? Can we just like enjoy like going back and forth and like spending time with each other? And is that better than not being together? And we both agreed that like we'd rather do that than not be together. I love that. That's nice. I mean, he's working in Toronto. Yeah. And you're working here, obviously. So like, listen, jobs, we're working. We have friends. And I always say you can get back together with an ex if the thing, if you actually look at the thing that broke you up and you change it. Because it's sometimes people just get back together because they're like a little lonely and they kind of just do the same thing. But I think if you go back and you think about what wasn't working then and you fix it, it works. So the change, I guess, for this relationship would be we're not going to think about who's moving. Yeah, essentially. And we're also just not going to put that pressure on ourselves because I feel like right now we're in a space where we're focusing on our careers. And I always say this to people, but I do truly believe it. Like, I think that this is almost the perfect scenario for me because I am so career focused and like self focused that it's nice to not sometimes have him here because I feel like if he was, that would be like my whole focus. Right. And almost having this separation like lets us like focus on. Developing our young careers. But like at the end of the day, we still know like we have each other and I don't know. Like you feel safe. Yeah, relationships so you can like go and explore and try new things. I guess everything's pros and cons of not to bring up a con, but the pro is. Perfectly. I'm sorry, it's perfect. Nothing's going to go wrong. You're going to be together forever. The per the pro is that while you're here working on your career, you don't have to keep them in mind. They're not your responsibility. You know, there's no like, oh, there's a work dinner tonight and you're going to be like, but what about Brandon? You know, like there's none of that. Yeah. But the con is that you're getting together for weekends and it's a little bit of a la la land. Totally. It's a little bit of a vacation every time you get together. And that's something that you can keep in mind and go, OK, this isn't totally real when we get together because we're having this fun time. That's, you know, a 36 hour, you know, episode of our lives that, you know, we're not really seeing what it's like to wake up in the morning and have to go. Well, I need the bathroom now because I have to be in to work. You know, but you'll get to that. Yeah. And honestly, I cry every single time we say goodbye. Like it's so sad. And I'm like, why are we putting ourselves through this? And then I'm reminded like, OK, well, the alternative is not being together. And like that sucked. So right. Right. And did he see your you up for more? He did. What do you think? So it actually like came out when we were still like talking about maybe getting together and so we watched it together and I was like, oh, maybe we'll just skip through this part. And he's like, no, let it play. I want to see it. He thought it was funny. And now we kind of have a running bid anytime he comes to my apartment. He'll like stand in front of the downstairs neighbor door and be like, yeah, she's my girlfriend, by the way, not yours. I love it. I love it. So it's kind of funny. That's great. That is awesome. So you came on to give us the update. We got it. The tips and tricks that Jordan, you know, Jordan and I gave to you worked, obviously. But you had a question for us. My question is, how do you manage the outside noise when it comes to long distance relationships? Because a lot of people will be like, well, when is you going to close the distance? Or are you moving to Toronto? Like, I just find that that is all just this noise that is really hard to deal with sometimes. So I'm wondering if you have any advice on like how to deal with that. I think you need to have like a can dancer that you are happy with and like that you can say to anyone who asks. And for you, I would say something along the lines of whatever what we're doing now is really working out really well for us. When it doesn't, we'll figure that out. Right. It's funny that you're getting those questions. Yeah, because I'm like, who's this annoying friend that is being the worst? She's like, it's my mom. Right. It's a little bit of everything. Like, who are these people that are a little bit of everything? I would say sometimes it helps me to rationalize why someone would ask me that question. And I would say everyone notices nobody cares. So everyone notices that you and your boyfriend are distance and notices that, hey, that's pretty difficult. Notices that one will have to make a move and one will have to, you know, sacrifice or maybe not or whatever it is. Everyone's noticing that, but no one cares. You know, like I think the they're just care if they're a friend of yours, family that they're happy, so they care about that. But I'm not saying no one cares about you generally. But when people ask those questions, it's because they're trying to fill the air. Interesting. Like I think that is just to me, that's a more personalized version of the weather and the sports teams and the local news. Like when someone says to you, so when are you guys going to move in together? That is them getting to the next topic and filling what would have been silence. Right. And because she doesn't want to like really talk about that, because she's fine with it and she doesn't want to like get into that. I think the having that response usually tells people, I'd like to move on to the next topic. Right. The can one, that's why it's a great piece of advice. Like, yeah, we're having fun. We're not really worried about that right now. We'll get to that bridge when we cross it. Like once you have that answer, now you've dealt with their insecurities about silence in the room or having nothing to talk about with you. And maybe you can move on to fun subjects like that person across the room who's wearing that like ugly jean. You know, so like that's where the fun of friendship comes in, trashing someone else. Totally. But to get there, I think because anytime someone asked me a question like that, like, so when are you two going to do this next thing? I'm always like, they don't give a fuck. Right. Like I'm not going to like move and then call that random woman. I saw at the party. It happened. Right. It happened. Right. So I think it's like sometimes that helps me to know that that to me, if I was like watching the conversation, I'd be like, Veronica, they don't give a shit. Just answer and move on, you know, like I so. I hope that helps. It definitely did. I feel like I can move forward and for the next like six months or so with that. And then we'll we'll maybe touch base again in the fall, maybe. Yeah, give us an update. We want many updates. We don't really care, but we would like an update. Right. We're going to fill the space of this podcast. No, I'm just kidding. We do. We do care. We, you know, we're different than your annoying friends. We have a dating and relationship. Yes. No, this is super helpful. And I like being able to come here and talk about it, because it's a good space to do so. And we love having you on. So thanks again to HBO Max for sponsoring this segment. Euphoria is back for season three. Five years later, the characters, you know, are navigating power, faith and ambition in the real world. It's bold, visceral and genuinely unlike anything else on TV right now. Don't miss the third season of Euphoria, starring two time Emmy winners in Daya premiering April 12th on HBO and HBO Max with new episodes every Sunday. Now back to us at home in our comfy cosies. OK, welcome back to us at home and together virtually. Let's do a petty or prudent. You ready, Dredana? J and J love the pod writing in with a petty or prudent from a few years back. My boyfriend and I had broken up right before my family vacation. Beware of vacations, they wrote. Yep. Because they know what you say. That's right. Walking Red Flag has more warnings like that on pre-order now. I cannot wait to read it. When I returned, I noticed all of his workout equipment that he set up in my backyard was gone. I lived in a walk up at the time. So to access the backyard, you had to unlock the front door and walk through the hallways of the building. I had a lock box that he knew the code to outside of the front door. So he obviously used that since he didn't have to key himself. What was off putting to me is he didn't even shoot me a text that he would be going to pick up his things. He just took it upon himself to use the lock box and enter my apartment. I understand wanting to get his stuff without having to see me. We didn't end on the best of terms. But at the time it annoyed me that he entered my apartment without letting me know all he had to do was shoot me a text. So what do you think? Petty or prudent, your ex enters your apartment to get his stuff back without letting you know. I like this Petty or Prudent because it's actually pretty layered. I don't know what you think. But when I was reading this and realistic, it's very realistic. Hey, we broke up. I got some stuff at your house. I know where you keep the key. I'm going to go get rid of that stuff. And it does feel like there's a prudency to it. Is that even a word? The the act of getting my stuff out of there while you're gone. Prudent. Yes. But I don't think anyone amongst us enjoys having someone be in your home and finding out later that they were rummaging around your home. I would feel uncomfortable. How do you feel about that? Like no text. Right. I think there's a few specifics in this incident, which make it a little bit more nuanced. Like the fact that it's outside, he really just had to walk through to get to outside. Right. If he's taking shit from like her drawers. Yeah, that's a little bit more messed up. I think the fact that it was all outside and sort of not like her personal belongings. I think that's important to make it a little bit less petty than otherwise. And a little less like weird. But I think she did. Did she write he has to walk through the house? The hallway. Is it the hallway of she lives in a walk up, right? To access the backyard, you had to unlock the front door, walk through the hallways of the building. Not her apartment, though. I had a lock box that he knew the code. Right. I think you're right. Because to me, there's the layered part of this is that he, because she says they ended on bad terms. We didn't end on the best of terms. And so honestly, he didn't even respect her emotional state enough to be OK with his prudent decision. Right. That she would be like yelling at him. Right. He was like, because I'm trying to put myself inside the mind of a murder. When he did this, he's like, I don't want to talk to this person because any form of communication turns into a bad day for me. So let me go get my stuff, which I have to get anyways. I know she's gone. And also, I'm not going to like, you know, poke at the beast, which I think that's prudent for him, but also he finds her so petty that it's almost petty of him to avoid her. Do you know what I mean? Right. Well, that's one of those situations where it's like, which point pick your poison. So I want to be her to be like annoyed that I'm asking her to go get my stuff or do I want her to be annoyed that I didn't text her to go ask to get my stuff. Right. So I think in his mind, she's going to be annoyed either way. And in one way, he like doesn't have to deal with her. I think another thing that's important in this context too is like during their relationship, did he often like take the key and go, go in how, how soon after the breakup was it? I think if it was like three months after the breakup, that's a little weird. If it was like within a week, I think that's less, less weird. Like I've gone, I've gone in this, this thing a million times. I'm going in one last time to get my stuff. Well, I mean, you, you bring up the best point. Time does matter. Three months later, it's petty. It's like, you've already gotten used to the living space with the workout stuff involved in it. You, even if you don't use the workout stuff, you have changed how you walk through the house based on where it landed on the, the grounds. So like, yes. Now you have to get used to this new way of walking through the house or the backyard because they decided it was time for them to just take their stuff under the cover of night. She does write that they broke up before the family vacation and when she returned from the family vacation. So he did this as prudently as you could time was. Yeah. And to be honest, if it were me and I were in his shoes and there was something outside of the guy I was dating's apartment and it ended bad. Again, she says it ended badly. I don't know how badly it ended. I don't know what happened. And it was like within a week of the breakup. I think I might just go get it, especially if I didn't go into their apartment. I think if she, if he went into the, when, even if he had to walk through the apartment to get to the outside, I would say, I would more likely to say something. Walking through the building, a communal building space doesn't seem that invasive. But really the only invasive thing is that he used her key. Right. No, you're right. Because I just know that I would feel if I had broken up with someone, then I like went to their place knowing they were gone to go get my stuff. It would feel like I was doing a Ocean's Eleven, you know, heist. Like, because what if someone saw me there and they thought I was being like, that's the other thing. Like if she got a call from a friend being like, Hey, I was at your place and I saw, you know, Ronald going through all your stuff in the back. I didn't, you guys break up like that would, there's risk of that. Yeah. So it is almost petty because you're willing to risk making her day even worse than it would have to be. Right. I'm trying to think like would she, it's petty, but it's not. Petty's just not the right word for this, I think it's annoying. It's like a little bit of it's a little bit cowardly, almost, I would say. Right. Hey, send a text. He could have sent a text that was like, Hey, I know you're away. You don't have to answer this. I'm going to go get my stuff. I know where the key is. Good luck with everything. You know, he could have sent a text that didn't need a response to. Right. Petty, I'm on team Petty. Because of how weird I'd feel. If I were him, I'd feel weird. I would be when you're sneaking, you're being petty. Okay. Well, so in your scenario, you break up with your girlfriend. She left her, I don't know what she left her water wings in your, in your cabana. She lives. She walks. Your dad always turns me into this monster. She left her pool floats in your swim cap. She left her swim cap there. Okay. She goes for laps every morning and she left her swim cap. You go on the road. Yeah. You go on the road and then you come back and the swim cap and water wings are gone. Do you, are you annoyed? She didn't text you. I come outside of the pool and my neighbors are like, what's wrong? And I'm like, my girlfriend took her water wings. I, I just don't know what to do. And they're like, well, how old was she? You took it there, not me. Right. I. Damn it. Jordana's move. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I guess in that scenario, I'd be relieved. That's what I'm saying. I think like depending. Right. So it is prudent. I think it's a tough one. Let us know in the comments what you think it is. If you're dumped, it's different than if you have dumped. Yes. Like if I ended it with my girlfriend and then she came and got rid of the stuff quietly, thank you. What, maybe I should date her again. She seems so awesome. You know, like. I'm saying the context matters. If she doesn't mind the break up happened. Right. And she avoided a way that I could. Because I actually think this is now. Now I've switched. It's petty of the emailer. She's mad that she lost an opportunity to be annoying to her ex. Yeah. Because she's my new detective. Right. So she's petty. Yeah. I had something I think it. Right. If all my if all my girlfriends pool toys were taken from my pool, Cabana, she didn't go into your apartment. I think she's in my apartment. Right. That's different. Right. For those at home that don't know, yes, I have a pool, Cabana here in Delray where hypothetically she could let herself in. Yeah. We Delray of this whole scenario. I thought of it because you said your mom like will do that, right? Like we'll go in. My mom. So she knows that there's a key and we'll go in. I mean, to my apartment and she's done this in the past, but not to the point where I've ever been annoyed by it. I don't know. I kind of have this like, I don't have that. Do you have that with your living space? Like if someone like messes with your living space, what would annoy you? I do. That would annoy me because, you know, I think it strikes a chord more with me because I had so many sisters growing up that we were always in each other's shit. Okay. And it was very much like, that's my fucking top. Right. You didn't even ask and it'd be like, you're wearing it right now. And it's like you had to go through. And sometimes my sisters would be like, it's not my fault. Like it was just like in my laundry. Someone put it back in my room. Like the housekeeper did the laundry and she put it back in my room. And I'd be like, well, you knew, like, right. I wish I was there. I would have been. I would love to be yours. Right. I would love to be the the referee for eight children living together. Like I would love that job. Boys didn't fight. It's just us. Not in the same way. No. I praying every day I don't have girls. Okay. So let's let's do another. I have a Lucy and Charlie. They're going to be sharing clothes. I know. Well, I'm very aware of that. I'm trying to like mitigate. I'm trying to make them good shares and be a good mediator. See, it's funny. There's like this brand of dude that finds out that like a guy has girls and they're like, whoa, that sucks, man. You're going to have to meet her boyfriends. That doesn't even cross my mind. I think that dude is an idiot. The well, that guy's showing you that what a douchebag boyfriend he was. Right. That's why he's saying you're exactly. She's going to have to meet someone like me. Right. So I like when a guy has three girls, people react like in the most unhealthy way. But I would be more like, oh my God, the the the mental warfare that would go on in the house that I was beneath would really stress me out. Like Mike has no chance. He doesn't know. He doesn't know because he didn't have any sisters. So he's right. Yes. No idea. Tell him. Like the argument about a shirt has nothing to do with the shirt. Like, oh, Mike, dude, it's crazy. Yeah, I'll have him right in. I don't know how much of a douche that makes me, but maybe that's because I've done petty or prudence for eight years here on the show. Let's do an email. Let's do an email. Dear J and J, longtime listener, lover of all things, betches, thanks for all that you do. I'd love your advice on something that's bothered me since my husband, 38 male and I, 34 female, got married six and a half years ago. He almost never wears his wedding ring. I'm confident it's not about cheating or wanting to seem single. He works from home and says he's just never worn jewelry. So the so the ring feels uncomfortable. To me, our rings are really meaningful. They're a symbol of our love and commitment, not just to others, but to ourselves. It makes me sad that he doesn't wear one. Before we got married, I told him how much they meant to me and he suggests we get wedding ring tattoos instead, which I loved. But six years in, we still haven't done it. I bring it up occasionally and he brushes it off. I don't think it's happening. I'd never press. It's not happening. I bring it up occasionally, but he brushes it off. I don't think it's happening. No, yeah, I think we can assure you. I never press him to do something with his body, but since it was his idea, it feels like a letdown. And I can't quite let it go. It's not constant, but it comes up enough that I wish things were different. So what do you think? How can I respect his wishes while also honoring my feelings about having a shared symbol of our marriage? Am I putting too much weight on the ring? Is he an outlier or do others feel this way too? Many thanks. And I thought I put a ring on it. Betch, what do you think, Jordana? I'm trying to put myself in her position. Does Mike wear his wedding ring? Does Mike wear his ring? He does. He doesn't take, he just, he hasn't really taken it off because he loves me more than this person's husband. No, of course. Just, I'm just saying. This unlovable woman, you know, can't really relate to you. No, I mean, I don't really think about it that much because he always wears it, but I do think if he didn't want to wear it, I think it would annoy me. If he didn't want to wear it or it would seem weird. If he never wore it. Not even, okay, I could see him not wanting to wear it around the house, but like when he goes out, I'd want him to wear it. I think I kind of agree. It's kind of like, it's almost less about the ring and more like, I'm proud of the situation that we're in and I like want to show off the situation that we're in and you kind of, it feels like you want to hide it. And then he said the tattoo thing sort of as an empty gesture to see like, be like, oh, it's just about the discomfort. But I find the fact that he's kind of brushing that off also a little annoying. Right. It's kind of a lesson for life. Like if he had said, I just don't like wearing jewelry, I think it might be better. The fact that he, she writes, he almost never wears his wedding ring. It's not, he's, he's splitting. He wore it on the wedding day. Right. I don't know when he did he wear it only on the wedding day. I don't know. I don't know what version he's doing, but like, it's not like she said he never wear, he doesn't wear a ring that has no plans to. You know, I like when we do an email that I can relate to in a different way than maybe the the listenership would think. I am the son of a of a father who doesn't, who's never wore a wedding ring. Ever. Ever. Never wore one. I don't know. I didn't even ask. These are, again, this is like an all boys family thing where we don't ask any questions of our parents that are in any way romantic or touching. Like I've learned from like Harry, my brother that like my brother, my brother's wife, Ruthie will ask my parents question. Then I'm like, why would you ask that? What? Like, I, it's so funny. I had the same situation with Mike's parents. Didn't you? Right. The first time I met them, they were like, wow, she's really giving us an interview. Like no one's ever asked us where we met. I would never. Who is this nosy bitch? Ray. So true. I mean, Emily was asking me questions about my parents. I was like, it was like I barely even knew them. I was like, I don't know. You know, I don't know why. I kid you not. A long running true joke that I have with Mike is that he doesn't know his grandparents are dead, but he doesn't know their first names. What? Or did? What's their faces? Just their nana and papa. Yeah, they're just grandpa. I mean, they died when he was younger, but it was, I was just, I'm just like, are you a, is this a paid family? Like how do you, no one knows anything about each other. Sorry. Go on. But this is where like, I've never really asked my parents how they felt about not wearing a wedding ring. Like I, maybe in passing. Does your mom wear one? I think she wears every ring she can. You know, like I think she's, you know, she's like, I need an eight and a half year ring, you know, like I whatever, you know, whatever version of like, you get a diamond for stupid, you know, like, you know, stupid milestone. Whatever anniversary. Right. So, but I don't know, she's not, but here's the thing. It's like one of those things that like, because it was never brought up, it was never like, it never felt like my dad was like, out running the law. From wearing his ring. Do you know what I mean? Like because it didn't exist as an option, it never felt like he was turning down an option. And well, your parents were married a lot before you were born. So like maybe they had that discussion. Maybe it did annoy her at first. And then whatever explanation he gave was sufficient or maybe it never, maybe she never even cared. Should I call my mom right now on air and see if she has an explanation? She'll pick up in half a ring. Let's see. Can you put her on speaker? Hi. Hi, you're on the podcast. Okay, mom. You're right. I am. Yeah, Virtu... Hi. I just have a, I have a, I have a personal question. I can. Jordana says hello. Jordana, Jordana, hi honey. How does it feel to be a mama? You're a mama. It feels great. I love getting, getting your messages. She doesn't like being called a mama. She's not, she's an anti-mama. Okay, mother. Mother. Mother, wow. Mother. Wait. Yes, I'm on the podcast. You want to meet my girlfriends too? They're all here. All your girlfriends are there? Well, no, this is not the time for us to have, be passed around. Okay. We have a listener whose husband doesn't wear a wedding ring. Did you feel any, did you ever talk to dad about not wearing a wedding ring? Yes, I wanted him to and he never wanted to wear a wedding ring. And what did you say? That was a fight? What did I say? I didn't really make a stink about it because it really wasn't that important because he doesn't wear a watch. And when he wears a watch, he's so awkward that he twists his, his wrists all the time that, that was enough. I just said, you know, leave it alone. Obviously he's not comfortable. So why do it? You like the big fights. That's easy. Okay. So if you fight the big fights, that one was easy. Why make a stink? That wasn't going to go anywhere. Is it weird that I never asked you about this? No. It was never a thing. Then either like to wear a wedding band or they don't. Did he ever give a reason? He just doesn't like to wear jewelry. He doesn't like to wear jewelry. Yeah. All right. So that was it. That was the question. Now go around the table and ask each of the women, what, if their husbands wear a wedding ring. Okay girls, you're on Jared's podcast right now. You're going to be on radio. You're going to be on radio. Hi Amy and Barbie. Hi everyone. Now, does any of your husbands not wear a wedding ring? Mine wears a wedding ring. Mine wears it. Yes. They all wear it. They all, I will accept my dad. He's the only weirdo. Oh, he's not weird. He's married too. He's married to the best. I don't know what it means to, but Jared, I've been by the mailbox all week waiting for your book. Oh, the book's coming. It's coming. Okay. I'll bring a few copies. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty, but I'm just sitting by the mailbox waiting. I'll get it to you. We'll get you fed. Don't worry. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? That's it. Have fun. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. Oh my God. That was amazing. Is that, did it make it on air? Can we hear them? I could, I could hear it all. Okay. I can hear all that was great. Okay. So that's her answer. It was a thing. It wasn't. Okay. So it was a thing and sounds like she just let it go. I wonder how long it took her to let it go. Yeah. I have no memory of that fight. I, but I have no memory of that fight. So it was before I had a, had a thought in my brain, but I'm sure it was right when they got married. Cause that's when you would either start wearing it or not, not wear it. So it probably was before your time or before your memory. Right. That's interesting. Like I also, I like the fact that she said he doesn't wear a watch. I think adds to his case. That would be important for me. It was important factor for her. It would be important to me too. Right. Well, and also that's a version of my mom rationalizing it for herself. Like I, I, you know, to be totally honest, like she's going, my mom, you could teal, you could hear like, there has to be some version. Of like, I don't need this to feel loved that you have to work out on your own, which my parents have been together, you know, over 40 years. So like, I think like it can work, you know, but also, I'm into saying it's not a deal breaker, but is this, I could see that almost as the, um, as the equivalent, as the, whatever year they got the 80s equivalent of, I'm not on his grid. He just doesn't like social. If he has other pictures up, that's more offensive. The fact that he doesn't wear a watch to me is he doesn't post. That's a good point. And I think like this guy bringing up, well, I'll do a tattoo or I'll do this or I'll do that. Like that's almost her. Him. Like, Hey, I don't feel comfortable is like the, is the answer that it's like it's, it's singular because now it's not that he doesn't feel comfortable. It's, oh, there's these other ways because even in her email, she says, I don't like the idea that she says he works from home. So I'm not worried about cheating. And it's like, well, does he ever leave? Right. He doesn't get out much. So how could he ever meet another woman? Like that's not a real good reason to feel okay about this. So like I would question a little bit of like, is it insecurity that he's not bragging about your love or is it insecurity that like you don't feel people are warded off from him? Right. Yeah. And I think to factor into how much this would irritate me would be does he show off our relationship in other ways? Right. Does he post you? Does he, you know, take you to work events or other events? Are you like, does he seem shady in another way? Right. I think I could get over it. And I know that you think the watch thing is stupid, but I actually do. No, I don't. I agree with you. Because like your dad's now, how old's your dad now? 60s or 70s? Never worn a watch. It's clearly like there's some truth to the, to the jewelry thing. Totally. And I wear a watch now, but I've never worn a ring. Like I don't know. Would you wear a ring? I don't know. I honestly, like my brother wears a ring. And I was, and I was kind of surprised he did. Like, that's how much I have no relation to a man wearing a ring is that the completely normal thing is to wear a ring. And then my brother did. I was like, whoa, oh, really? Like I couldn't believe it. Loser. Right. So whipped. Exactly. Yeah. I, so it's interesting. I don't know if I would. I would give it a shot, but I mean that this email is making me not want to do that. What if I give it a shot? Don't like it. And then I'm like trying to get, get rid of it as a thing. You better be fiddling with that thing all fucking day. Just like complaining about how she was my whole, I would need to be the one to suggest you not wear it. I need to see you better like fake some rash something. I would need to be the like, right? It's just, it's strangling me. You know, I, I think for the, I think she, she says, how do I respect his wishes while also honoring my feelings? Maybe there's another way for him to show love or, but I think if he's wearing it 5050, I would understand her insecurity. Like I think it's either all out or all in with a wedding ring. Yeah. Just never take it off or never put it on. Right. Because then when you put it on and take it off, it's like what makes an occasion a ring occasion, honoring occasion, you know, that's where it gets a little weird. That's true. All right. Well, good luck. Let us know about that conversation. Good luck with your failed marriage. Let's do, let's play some, no, you guys are great. Let's play some games. Red Flag or Dealbreaker. We, we, it's been a while, Jordana, since we've, you know, we did it last week, but we didn't really get through the full red flag deal breaker experience. Are you ready? Yeah. Let's get into it. Go for it. Dear J and J, thank you all for the work that goes into making my favorite podcast. I'll dive right in. We do it. It's hard work, but someone's got to do it. Indeed. Indeed. Okay. I'm 33 female and started dating my boyfriend 32 a few months ago. We met on hinge, but actually have two sets of mutual friends. Big fail on our friends part, not set us up. LOL. Our relationship is going super well. Wouldn't you take that as a more like, if your friends didn't set you up, wouldn't that be more about you than the friends? Don't you, don't you have like a look in the mirror moment? Hey, we were just two sink. We were the only single people they weren't like, oh, oh, you two. Instead they were like, oh, we don't want to deal with them. I don't know. Maybe. Is that what you would think? I guess so. If I was just sitting at the same table, I don't know. I'm making too much of it. Or it's thoughtful. They didn't think you'd be the match and maybe they're right. Let's find out. Yeah, let's find out. We just mesh and it's the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I care about him very much, but there's been one thing that we haven't worked through yet. I'm not going to go down on me and that's something that I really enjoy receiving. Earlier on when I first tried to go down on him, he halted that. When I asked him why, he said, I'm just not that into it and I prefer the other things we do. Well, this guy's a crazy person. End it right now. He's not taking or giving or taking. He's not an oral guy. Not an oral guy. This is the first relationship I've been in where I have more relationship and sexual experience than my partner. And that's been a bit of an adjustment. I'm thinking that he might feel uncomfortable with oral because he simply doesn't have much experience with it. This is also a man who does not watch porn. We are on the same page about how the sex we're having is very good, but I really wish he'd take the leap and try because that's how I am most likely to owe. How should I handle this? I don't want to always feel like I need to pull out my vibrator when I get back from his place. I'm not so vanilla betch. I think sometimes with these emails, it's more sometimes they write it and like our job is to tell them that they're lying to themselves for like at least a minute. Yeah. She needs to stop saying that we are on the same page about how the sex we're having is very good. Like it's not very good. You're unhappy. You wrote into a podcast to ask two random people how to get your boyfriend to go down on you so that you don't have to pull out a wand to make yourself have an orgasm when you get home. Like there's a problem here. You can, it can work out, but lying to yourself. Don't you think, Jordanna, like the, that's part of her problem. Like is that she's not being honest with herself? Right. Well, she doesn't want to throw away. It would seems like a good relationship. She says the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. No. This is how women's, women's brains think of like, what am I going to throw away a guy who's like financially stable and nice and wants to commit to me for a little old thing, like never having an orgasm again. I mean, honestly, that's, no, I'm just saying like, I think like the man wouldn't have that thought, but I think many women would. No, I got to be coming. I got to be coming. I got to be, I got to be, I, I, and so does she. She's just what she's saying. She's writing in. She is writing in. I feel like I could see there being like many women who were like, that's just not that important to me. I have everything else I need from him. I can let that one go. I don't think men could do that or not as many men, but I do think that's like a realistic thing. Some people take into consideration. It sounds like it is important to her. She's writing into us. Yeah. No, that's, that's fair. I, I would say. Yeah. What she should do is get the whole friend group that knows them both together and play. Hey, everyone, raise your hands if you love going down on your partner and then everyone puts their hands to the sky and he's just sitting there sipping on his diet coke. Yeah. I don't know. If he's not even willing to, I could see maybe he's nervous. He won't do it right. Um, yeah, there's a bad taking and not getting. I do think there's like conversations to be had, but if he's just kind of like shutting it down, I think she needs to open the conversation and like a non judgmental. Like this is something that's in my sex life is very important to me. This is something that like means a lot to me. The I, I would love it if you would at least try. Right. And honestly, she, she'd probably be turned on by the, I just him trying doing something that he's never really done before for her. Like that could be a version of a turn off. You know, I, I do think saying we, I just the hardest thing in the world is having this conversation while also like propping up your partner. Like you, you, because you're saying there's a problem here that we need to talk about and also you might not be good at this thing. And I have to now lead you through it. Like it just like, I don't know. I think ever would you want to be with a partner who is like less experienced than you that you had to like show the way? I think if they were like open minded about it, like I could see them being hesitant and I think a lot of people's fears about that stuff, especially sexual stuff is like, I've never done it before. I don't want to do it wrong or I've never, you know, there's like, I think there's a lot of fear of like a failure in it. And that's probably why he doesn't want to, I think he doesn't want to get the receivoral sex because he's like, I would feel weird like taking this and not giving it. And like, I just, he's probably just very uncomfortable with it. So I think if he's like shutting it down and it's like, I'm not doing that. I don't want that. No discussion. I think that's one thing. If he's like, if she's making him feel very comfortable with the idea that she could walk him through it, is he open to trying something new? And he's like receptive. I think that's a different story. Right. I guess, yeah, I want a partner who's sexually confident and open to notes. You know, like that's kind of the dream. Right. I mean, he doesn't sound that sexually confident to me, but like you could build on that if he's not less experienced, like he could build on that. And I think it's almost like any other issue in a relationship. If I want my partner to like respond differently when I'm having a bad day or if I'm in a bad mood, if I want them to respond differently, like it's more about are they open to taking the feedback for how you would like them to respond than it is what they're initial, what they're doing initially. Right. No, I'm with you, especially if you're two people at the negotiating table. That's like if you think of a relationship as a negotiation table and you're both sitting at it, that's half the bat. You know, so. Now we know why the friends didn't hook them up. You know, the guy won't even eat an oyster. They were like, oh, he probably doesn't go down on chicks. And we know she loves that. She's mowing down a hot dog. Yeah, how would you do this? How do you sit them down? I guess I'm like trying to think of like, to me, this would be a deal breaker. Won't go down on me. But I'm with you. It could be a red flag if I was like, if they were like, hey, I just don't feel comfortable doing that and would love to like talk it through with you. That would be more red flag than deal breaker. Yeah. That's my assessment. I think if it's like a straight shutdown of like, I don't, I'm not doing that. And clearly it's important to her again. Then that would be a deal breaker. If it's a here's why I don't do it. I have XYZ fear or I don't like this XYZ part of it. And then you can come to some sort of solution for it. I think it's just a red flag. I have a solution. You give him a card and you say on the front of the card, it's like, I'm going to give you two compliments and a request. And then they flip it over. And the first compliment is, I love how you make me feel. The second is a request that says, I would love for you to lick my pussy. And the third is a compliment. I love how you're good at taking direction. Hopefully you do that while you lick my pussy. OK. Do you think that's one way to do it? I'm trying to give you the context. I think I want to help her. I just think like if he won't, if he couldn't laugh at that and have fun with that, I don't know how much him not watching porn, I don't think is like as big of the deal as she for her to even put that in there. Like, but I guess it does say something about he's not that sexual. Right. Right. Which again, like, I think you have to. I think there's many people who would weigh this in the larger context of the relationship, decide how important it is to them. And again, you can break up with anyone for any reason. If he's not, if he's very hesitant to even do it, is he going to be the best person you've ever encountered at it? Probably not. Right. Because that usually takes a certain level of enthusiasm. If that's what you're looking for, it's not to this guy. If you're OK with someone trying their best. I get it. Yes. There you go. There you go. I almost get too enthusiastic. I do the the now you're making her feel bad. I know. Sorry, I'm sorry. There are there are some of us out there. No, I it's a deal. Yeah, for me, deal breaker, if he can't even engage in the conversation, as long as they can engage in the conversation, anyone, anyone. Listen, honestly, there's no professional, you know, there's no person that's professional at oral. Like, I think everyone can get good at it for someone. If they're trying. Right. Yes. Yeah, you willing to try. Oral is like playing good defense. It's like 99 percent hustle. You know, enthusiasm. Right. Yes. Totally. All right. Let's do a read another one. J and J. I'm 24, currently dating a 26 year old who has this really weird belief that if you laugh when you're being tickled, it means you lack mental discipline or psychological control. This comes up when I playfully try to tickle him and he just doesn't react at all. No laughing. No nothing. When I asked how he's not ticklish anywhere, he tells me he's quote, decided not to be ticklish anymore and can mentally disengage when someone tries when I try not to laugh to prove a point. He tells me maybe I just don't have that same level of mental physical control. I have no idea if this is medically true. But it feels very wrong to me. So red flag or deal breaker, someone you're dating has strong weird beliefs about tickling and self control. Thanks for all you do. I like a tickle flirt. Is it tickle flirt a thing? I don't know. I haven't been I haven't been tickled in a bit. I know that there's a thing recently. I know there's such a thing as a tickle fart. I haven't tickled anyone recently nor been tickled. When you get tickled. It's just so giggly. It's so stupid. Like tickling someone is like the dumbest form of silly, like childlike thing that like for someone to like not want that in their system. I think like it's I don't know. When I read this email, I was like, was this guy in the manosphere documentary? Like what kind of cockamangy bullshit is this right that you don't want to show? It's like when it's like when people say that their grandparents were like there were like grandparents that were that told them that like showing, smiling in a picture made them weak. Like it just feels like so unloved. Yeah, I don't know. Loser. I agree. It's to me, it's kind of like you're saying that you're the kind of person that doesn't like to like let go and letting go and letting go makes you weak. Yes. That's what he's saying. Being in the moment. Right. And it's like and being like fun and like this person doesn't strike me as particularly fun and flirty. Oh, I would never want to hang out with this person ever. Like you do one fun British accent and they're like, what was that? Like that would be their response to that. Like, no, get out of here. Yeah, I've decided I'm no longer being ticklish. It's like, how could you have children with that person? Right. It's just like yelling at their kids that they're weak. Was that a giggle? We do not laugh in this house unless it's about a joke where we only laugh when a joke is being told by someone who looks like an MMA fighter. You know, like that's like, right? It's just like it comes off so stupid. I don't know. That's why it feels very like. Well, it feels very like hustle grit culture where. You have to be all in on manhood. I don't know. It kind of goes that direction for me where I'm like, fuck this dude. I agree. I think it says some weird shit about how he views like the right way to be, which is hyper controlled and not fun, not like not playful, not loose. That's not something someone I would be particularly interested in. Right. And then also it kind of. All I would do is try to tickle this guy. Like that would be my life's work would be sneaking up on him and tickling him. And seeing and be like, see, gotcha. You little bit of his address. Right. Jared's going to knock on his door when he answers. We're going to hold him down. Jared's going to take him and then you imagine. Can you imagine if we found this guy and I randomly tickled him and we got it on camera and he was laughing. It's going on. He's like laughing. And I'm like, yeah, you little bitch. That's right. We were sent here from the U of podcast to see if you really, you know, got it out of your system or not. You know, like, if we like fuck with them, like that's our show coming to Netflix. Right. Well, tickle your man is fear loser boyfriend. Comedian Jared Freed was arrested today with allegedly tickling a man who was written into about on his podcast, you know, are you allowed to tickle someone stranger? Like it's not like punching someone. I think that's an assault. I think you could be charged with something. Yeah, that's why she should need to dump him. Yeah. Oh, all right. Tickled against your will. I mean, Jordan, if I went up to a woman and I just started tickling her, I think you. Yeah, I guess that would be illegal. We have to figure out the laws on tickling. We do. I changed my name to the tickle monster. That would be my like prison name. Tickle monster. Tickle monster. I tickle my girls. Tickle. Do you? Do they laugh yet? Yeah. They do. It's a baby laughing. Just the best feeling in the world. Yeah, that's like, wow. Is that number one? The laughing. Yeah. The smile, the laughing and like the smiling when they see you. It's like really like nothing pale. Nothing is as good as that. Nothing. Even oral heaven. Even oral at this, at this phase, at this phase of my life. If you had asked me, if you had asked me 10 years ago, maybe, maybe not at this phase in my life, that's, that's better. So maybe that's our advice to the oral woman. Just have a baby and you won't need it anymore. He was your baby can smile at you and you'll be fine. Exactly. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. All right. Hey, J and J. Love the pod founded after hearing Jared on the toast. And I'm quickly working my way through all the new and old episodes. We love a new listener. Welcome. I'm writing on behalf of my sister. We'll call her Allie. Allie, a 28 year old female has been dating her boyfriend. We'll call him John, 32 year old male for six months. John owns a house and his younger sister, a 28 year old female lives with him there. First potential red flag. John bought the house a couple of years ago and his ex-girlfriend briefly lived there with him when they broke up, his sister moved in and has lived with him for the last year or so. Allie thinks it's odd that her 32 year old boyfriend has his younger sister living with him. The sister has a boyfriend of about six months herself. Allie says that she has been over to the house and that the sister will shower and walk around in her towel in front of her and John. John tells Allie that if she were to move in, he would ask his sister to move out. But otherwise, he would not ask her to move out on his own. The situation is all around weird to our whole family, mostly the fact that this adult brother and sister pair are living together. And John has told Allie he would prefer living with his sister than living alone. We would love to hear your thoughts on this. Sincerely questioning my sister's mister. You know, they're a new listener. So I'm happy they're here because maybe they don't know that sometimes we are I, both of us. Sometimes I haven't heard your opinion on this yet. We'll label the email or as the red flag. Like to me, this family that's writing in, thank you for listening and for being a new listener. They're the deal breaker. Like if I owned a home where my brother lived with me and we were having a great time being adult roommates with the knowledge that this wasn't forever. And when I, you know, find the love of my life, I'll have this place that I own and they can move in and my brother will move out. I would think that if someone took exception to that, that they didn't really understand that the world is the reality of living in this world is about tradeoffs and finding your happiness, you know, in those tradeoffs that you have to make. Listen, if we could all own our own mansion that was, you know, that was next door to our family members, we'd do it, but we can't. Yeah. So this feels like a tradeoff that was made in the most positive and wonderful ways. And my only issue with the email, the way she wrote it, the only thing I could find exception to questioning her sister's mister is the fact that he kind of said, like, when, you know, the way he said it was kind of annoying to me, like, he says that once that if she were to move in, he would ask the sister to move out. Like, I would want him to, like, make that decision on his own, not to be asked to move in and then, okay, fine, I'll ask my sister to move out. You would hope that that would be his prerogative that he's so excited to move in with your sister, that he says, hey, we have a plan for her to move out and I would love for you to move in. But that's me being a little bit picky. I have a feeling she asked him, like, what if I moved in? Would you ask her to move out? Of course. I have a feeling. I mean, like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I would imagine he didn't just volunteer that. Yeah. Right. But if he volunteered, it's like, well, when you're ready to move in, I'll ask her to get her out of here. I, that kind of the version would be douchey to me. Yeah. That would be weird. I agree. But that's me being trying my best to take the email aside. But without doing that, I'm saying the email is the deal breaker. Like, I agree. She seems kind of annoying. It seems like the situation works well. They're not sharing a one bedroom. Right. I guess the towel thing. I don't know. Like, it's not like she's, if she's walking around, if she, if he lived with his sister and she was walking around naked in front of you. Yeah, that would be weird. She's wearing a towel. I could see a guy, if a guy, if he lived with his brother, his brother walking around with a towel on. I don't think it's that weird. I think it's nice that he gets along with his sister. They seem close. This does seem like you're looking for shit to be like annoying about. Right. I, I. There's nothing weird about this. The other sister's walking around in a towel in her own home that maybe she, we don't know if she pays rent to him or not. But, you know, even so, it's her home. She does. Yeah. Let's assume she does. Yeah. She can walk around a towel. That's to me. I don't know. Listen, like we're all trying to get through life as comfortably and happily as possible. Right. To me, this is him opting for comfort, opting for happiness. And again, if someone said, I have a roommate at 42, I would go, is there a reason for that? And they were like, well, it's the one time in my life I can live with a roommate and have some fun with my sister. I would go, okay, you've thought about it. You know, it's weird. You know, you have an answer for that. Right. And this is a house. I could see where he's like, I'd rather have my sister live here or pay me rent than like live alone. And also like we get along really well. And she's a good roommate. Clean the kitchen. Let's say your family. Let's say, let's reverse it. You find out that your boyfriend, your boyfriend's parents think it's weird that you own a home that you share with your brother. Your brother. Yeah, that's a red flag. I would be like, this family is unrealistic about how life works. And I would hope that they're very rich so that they can pay for the lifestyle that they see us having. You know. They have to be rich enough to solve this problem for themselves. Right. They have to buy me and my brother our own homes. Right. Well, we did it again. We solved dating, Jordana. We did it. We'll be back on Friday. Bye.