The Man Who Died Twice, Then Climbed Everest | Sean Swarner

There were years of my life where I was terrified to close my eyes at night because I didn't know if I was going to wake up the next day. That was because of two terminal cancers. I was given three months to live the first one, 14 days to live the second one. I was reading my last rites. The man of the cloth came in, rosary in one hand, Bible in the other one, standing at the end of the bed, started reading me my last rites as a 16, 17-year-old. I developed a completely different perspective on success, on happiness, on fulfillment than anyone else. That's changed my entire perspective on what I've been able to accomplish. I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. You have an incredible story. and I don't normally like to start with origin stories, but I think yours is so incredibly unique and powerful that it would be remiss if we didn't start there. So as much as you're willing or able, I'd love for you to kind of level set your methodology and I want to get to some of the stuff that you're doing today, but I think if we don't understand your origin story, it'll make a lot more sense. and that makes that does make total sense because if if you look at where most adults are right now they had they never had to go through what i went through and learn what i have learned about life so let's let's go back to when you were in high school right the the biggest concerns you had were probably what like clothes nice clothes nice hairstyles being the popular crowds not getting picked on making from class to class on time whatever that might be for me 13 to 18 years old there were years of my life where i was literally terrified to close my eyes at night because i didn't know if i was going to wake up the next day and that was because of two terminal cancers I was given three months to live the first one, 14 days to live the second one. I was reading my last rites. I mean, a man of the cloth came in, rosary in one hand, Bible in the other one, standing at the end of the bed, started reading me my last rites as a 16, 17-year-old. So I developed a completely different perspective on success, on happiness, on fulfillment than anyone else that I think I know. And I think that's changed my entire perspective on what I've been able to accomplish. So 13 years old, advanced stage four Hodgkin's lymphoma. Doctors gave me three months to live. 60, 70 pounds, heavy. I remember looking at myself in the bathroom mirror, not even being able to recognize who was looking back at me. And, you know, I was losing my hair because of the chemo. And I remember going into the bathroom, like, just like it was yesterday, man. It was intense. I remember being on my hands and knees on the shower floor. My hair was falling out in chunks. Clogging the drain, the water was rising up. And I was on my hands and knees just sobbing. And I was trying to figure out how I was going to move forward in life. You know, when you're 13 years old, you should be worried about your future and not your funeral. You're supposed to be worried about going out on dates and your hormones kicking in and growing hair in unusual places on your body. But I was losing it, and I remember projecting three months into the future, and I still have this image burned in my mind. It always gives me motivation when I think about it. It makes me emotional, too. I projected three months into the future, and I saw my mom, my dad, and my younger brother at the dining table for dinner. And I remember my mom was setting the table, getting ready for dinner, and there was one empty seat. And I didn't want to be the empty seat at my family's dining room table. So then I came back and I realized that when I was fighting for those cancers, not only was I fighting for my life, but I had a deeper purpose. And that purpose was one of my personal core values that still stayed with me, which is family. So I was moving forward and I wanted to live for myself and my family's lives. But I also decided that I didn't want to focus on not dying. I wanted to focus on living. So as a 13-year-old, I decided that I didn't want to focus on the avoidance of something that I didn't want in my life. I wanted to be attracted to and focus all my energy and attention on something I did. And I learned that at a really young age. So fast forward, I went through the chemotherapy a year and a half later. I was in remission going in for a checkup for the first cancer. They diagnosed with a second type of cancer that's super, super rare called Askin's sarcoma. And because no one's ever had these two cancers before, my chances of survival literally were 0.000000001% chance. basically you're telling me there's a zero percent chance i'm going to be living in 14 days because that's what that's the amount of time they gave me to live and i went through three months of intense chemo a month of radiation therapy 10 more months of chemotherapy and every time i was in the hospital like the three months and then the 10 months the one month of radiation therapy i remember but the three months and 10 months outside the radiation therapy i don't remember because the treatments were so harsh, the doctors put me in a medically induced coma. So I don't remember being 16 or 17 years old. And also because of the radiation therapy, I lost the function of my right lung. But again... And survival was the first time I was going through the treatment. They never used the word cancer. They told me that I was sick and that they were going to do everything they possibly could to get me better. So in my mind, I wasn't fighting for my life. In my mind, I just had a cold or a flu or something like that. Yes, eventually I found out it was cancer. But because I wasn't in this state of being terrified of what was happening to me, I took it as it came by, one day at a time. And I was just sick. I wasn't fighting for my life. so I think that helped because I took that into the second cancer and that's when I said that the doctor gave me he was reading my last rites and I remember they want the hospital wanted me to write out a living will and I'm joking with my parents I'm like well you know I have a younger brother isn't my brother going to get my hand-me-downs anyhow like what could the hospital possibly want so then fast forward into about 10 years later that's what you probably want to talk about is the whole concept and idea of pushing limits and achieving what no one in history has ever done before. And I became the first cancer survivor to summit Mount Everest. And I did so with one lung. People thought it was impossible. Why would you do that? That's a great question. And to answer it as succinctly as possible, when I was going through the treatments, I didn't think I had much hope. And a lot of people need to see that hope. They need to be impacted and believe something is possible before they can do it themselves. So I was studying to get my master's and my doctorate in counseling psychology. I wanted to be a psychologist for cancer patients because, as we all know, it's not an individual disease. We all go through it together. And I am a firm believer in the mind-body connection. And I wanted to use my mind to trick my body and everybody else in the world because they thought it was impossible. but I wanted to use Mount Everest as the highest platform in the world to scream hope, to give back to the cancer community. And it's turned into this whole global campaign now of just proving you can do amazing things with the right tools and the right teams and the right places. why weren't you angry bitter spiteful resentful against the world God the universe like how do you how do you turn your experience and come out of it with a positive filter you know I remember I remember I had a conversation with a guy years ago. Because you mentioned God. He heard everything I've been through. And he's like, do you believe in God? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, with everything you've been through, how can you believe in God? And I looked at him and said, with everything I've been through, how could I not? And I wouldn't be alive if I called him the big guy. I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the big guy upstairs. So I think with the right attitude, knowing what was happening to me, I had no control over that. You know, oftentimes when people have something horrific happen to them, or they're in a situation that they have no control over, you always have control over how you react in every situation. You always have choice, you know, and that's one of the greatest freedoms that I think we all have. you can choose how you want to react in any situation looking at what i went through i know there are so many people who have gone through cancer and unfortunately they come out on the other side with this victim mentality and they they just want to bury it get rid of it move on with their lives and a lot of people are angry about what happened to them why would i want to live a life of anger why wouldn't i want to not just bounce back from something but bounce forward and use that as my strength. You know, people want to get back to their new normal. There is no new normal. It's a completely new life. But it can be an amazing life. And I think looking back at what I went through and having the attitude of knowing that I can choose to be happy. I can choose to be blessed. I can feel those every morning I wake up. In fact, every morning I do wake up, I open my eyes and I tell myself, the past is gone. There's nothing I can do about it. Tomorrow may never come. No matter what happens today, today's the best day ever. And whose choice is it to make it that way? So why wouldn't you choose to be happy and grateful every morning and every day you're alive? I'm going to reframe my question in, how did you specifically come out of that experience with a positive frame did you ever rage against the world um was it just a process that you had to deal with uh did your parents uh you know have a philosophy or mindset or support that kept you positive because as you said so many people who go through an experience like this which they don't deserve didn't do anything to to you know there's nothing you did at 13 that would warrant It's such a horrific experience on your life. And it very plausible very socially acceptable today And I don even mean that in a negative sense That if you came out angry and hateful or you came out you know pure victimhood why me, woe is me, there would be communities that would support those mindsets and mentalities and would be like, we understand, you know, this is who you are. And you came out with a different mindset. You decided to share a message with the world that changes people's lives. you decided to take on challenges that even some of the most peak fit individuals would never even consider. And I'm just very interested in how you navigated that. And I'm not expecting you to – every day is sunshine and rainbows. But that's a fairly unique way of viewing the world considering what you had to go through. True, true. And I know that – you're right. I don't pretend to live in a world where unicorns exist and people fart cotton candy. You know, it doesn't happen. You know, every day is not a wonderful day. But with the right attitude, you know, how's your day going? Oh, it's a horrible day. Well, I never have a horrible day. I always have, always. When I do have a day like that, I consider it a less than ideal day. You know, still looking at it from a positive perspective. You know, we're on earth for a blink of an eye. And I realized this at 13 years old. I'm going to go after and chase after every opportunity that's presented to me. Because I never want to have any regrets. And I think a lot of people hold on to that. They get angry. And of course, I was angry too. I mean, the first cancer, I was like, what the hell? But then the second cancer, I thought, I went through the first one, like, why am I getting sick again? I was like, you know, why me, man? What's going on? What did I do? Asking those questions will never change the fact that I had cancer. It'll never make it go away. You know, I couldn't change that fact. But I always had, like I said, I always had control over how I reacted to it. And granted, yes, when I went to college, I buried it. I brushed it under the rug, and I didn't know how to deal with it, to be honest with you. You know, let's say freshman, sophomore, you're in college, 18, 19 years old, I'm out on a date, and I'm talking to someone, and I'm asking her, hey, you know, how's your meal? How's your steak? How's your salad? You know, how's your drink? Oh, I had cancer. You know, it's not a casual dinner conversation. but eventually i realized that it was a part of me how am i going to deal with this so it wasn't an overnight process the biggest thing that i had to deal with and a lot of people have this too you go through something traumatic it could be cancer it could be anything stressful like a marriage you know your body doesn't know the difference between good stress and bad stress it could be a divorce. It could be a car accident. For me, going through, and a lot of people who are survivors, there's this thing called scanxiety. You know, they go in for their scans. I have to go in once a year for my checkup. No one's ever had these two cancers, so no one knows what's going to happen to me. Every year I have to go and get blood work. Every five years, you know, a CAT scan and so forth. It used to terrify me going in for that blood work. And I would tell my family, my friends, hey, I'm going in, you won't hear from me for the next five days until I get my results, because I am petrified. Until I realized I was allowing a six-letter, yeah, a six-letter word to control my emotions and feelings. I was allowing something outside of me to trigger something on the inside. Nothing outside there triggers any feelings inside you. It's how you react to it. So when I realized I wanted to take my emotions and control of my emotions back, I actually went into the bathroom and I stared at myself in the mirror and I said the word cancer out loud probably 50 times. And every time that word passed my lips, it took less and less control over me. I just kept getting it out. And eventually, probably around 30 or 40, I kept saying cancer, cancer, cancer, whatever. Now, no problem, man. But eventually, I started laughing at myself. And I thought, what am I so afraid of? It's like, you essentially did a self-conducted exposure therapy. That's to the word you know, It was like exposure therapy to the word. It's incredibly interesting. I mean, I just find it fascinating that you could go through an experience like you did. And obviously you explained. It wasn't like you just came out of the hospital day one and were sunshine and rainbows. You know what I mean? And I'm not even saying that that's what your life is today. Just you obviously have developed a mindset and a set of filters and beliefs and structures that allow you to view the world. an incredibly positive and optimistic and bright and love-filled place. I mean, you can tell by your work and your message and what you do and how hard you put, how much effort you put behind it. I just think that at least at face value, that's fairly rare, especially considering how early you went through all that. And I think it's amazing. And I wrote something down while you were talking. I said, did God put – I'm a believer myself. did God put this cancer in Sean's life because of the message that you're sharing today? Maybe what the work that you're doing today was so critical and is so powerful and so important to so many people's lives. And he knew that you could handle it. And even though it was awful and you wouldn't wish it on your enemy, probably, you were able, you were strong enough to get through it and come out with this viewpoint, right? And the message wouldn't exist if you didn't. And I think it's a wonderful thing. why climbing mountains? Like, what was it about? I mean, I know I love the, the, the visual and the challenge. I mean, I love that what you'd explained about, about the experience, but like, have you always been an adventurer? Has that, have you always been someone who likes the outdoors? Have you always liked big challenges? Like, why did you choose this particular challenge as the one that you were going to take on, um, for your life and all, and ultimately as it is continued to define your message as you've gone. Right. When I was younger, I was a competitive swimmer. My parents stuck me in the YMCA at five or six years old. So I had always been an athlete. I've done swimming, cross-country, track, football, pole vaulting even. You name it, I've done it. And I've always been pushing the boundaries of not comparing myself to others, but comparing myself to myself. right so one of the things that my parents instilled in me was when I my favorite was the breaststroke and I remember when I was a little kid doing the 25 meter breaststroke touch the wall mom or dad will pull me out of the water and they would ask me did you have fun and did you do your best just those two questions not hey why didn't you beat Ryan you know he came in first you should have come in first now did you do your best and did you have fun I could always say I had fun. I had a great time. And then the next weekend, say the swim meet, 25 meter breaststroke, what'd you swim last week? A 30? Let's just pipe and throw numbers out there. 30 seconds. Well, what do you want to do this week? 29, 20, 29.5, you know, to get a little bit better and a little bit better. Never comparing myself to others. So eventually other comp, the competitors were never a distraction. And eventually because I was improving myself every week, I was the best, right? So I took that attitude into everything that I've done. And how it came about was looking at, like I said, the highest platform in the world. And I wanted to use that to help other survivors believe in themselves and share this perspective with them. And something else that happens a lot still, which is insane, and I never believed it before, but chemo brain is a real thing, and I completely forgot what the question was. The good news is you answered it perfectly. All right, good. So the question was really around why choosing, like adventuring, You know, I'll put it as a broad stroke. Adventures as a way of, and adventures is probably diminutive to some of the things you've actually done. But, you know, it just, I'm interested in why we make the decisions that we make, right? Like you could have done ultra marathons. You could have done swimming things. You could have done, and not that, you know, you haven't done different things. But like, you know, choosing to climb Mount Everest. I know that you do expedition expeditions to Kilimanjaro and these crazy places I think I'm always interested in why we make the decision, why we choose the things even that we do you could have been there's a million things you could have done to inspire others to be successful in their lives to think positively to follow along in some of the mindsets that you've created. And you chose to climb mountains, and I think that's phenomenal. And I'm just always very interested in why. There's an amazing parallel between going through cancer and climbing Everest, for example, any of the big mountains. A lot of people don't realize that when you're climbing Everest, you don't show up at base camp and then slowly work your way up the mountain. It takes four weeks. You establish different camps. Because if we went from where you are, where I am now, and could all of a sudden magically show up at the top of Mount Everest, we would be dead within 5, 10 minutes because of the lack of oxygen. Our minds would suffer cerebral edema. Our bodies would suffer pulmonary edema. And we would literally just fall apart, fall asleep, and die. So we would go up the mountain to, say, Camp 1, and then we'd come back down to base camp, and we would rest. day, two days, three days, whatever. And what that does is you go up with a full backpack, you shuttle stuff up there, come back down with an empty backpack, and you're shuttling things up the mountain. But for your body, it's actually manufacturing more red blood cells and hemoglobin to be more efficient in altitude. Very similarly to going through the chemo treatments, I couldn't go in and a patient couldn't go in and get treatment after treatment after treatment because the medicine alone would destroy the body. So you have to have some time off. So there are a lot of similarities. And one of the things that is also very interesting is when you reach the summit, like when I reached the top of Everest, I looked around and it was amazing. I broke down in tears because I was so emotional. But the instant I realized I had made it up there, I mean history, I looked around and I thought to myself, I have to go back down. So it very similar in the fact that when you go through chemo when you going on this cancer journey when you get into remission you still have a few more treatments left You still have to get back down So the reason I chose adventuring the reason I chose Everest was because I think pushing your body and your mind to the extremes to the limits I know what pain is like. I've been there. I know what it's like to have a bone marrow test where the needles are dragging. It's like a surgical needle going through just in my back, just above my butt. And I can still feel the nerve endings being dragged by the needle, you know, and to aspirate part of the marrow. I know what pain feels like. and I want people to use what they've been through to become stronger. Because we have all survived 100% of life's most difficult moments, and that's a pretty good record. And if people realize that we're 100% at bat on life's most difficult situations, shouldn't we then think whatever we're going through now is going to be very similar to what we've already done in the past with that record of 100% success? Most people run from pain as fast and as far as they possibly can. The default mechanism, and honestly, I don't mean this to get into any political weeds at all, But I feel like that's a big part of the debate that we're having as a society right now is there are people who build and grow and want to be prosperous and pain and hardship is just part of the path. And then we have another side of our society that is going, this is really hard. I don't really like hard. I would prefer easy, safe, fast, convenient, comfortable. and those two ideologies are smashing into each other in all these different ways and shapes that it manifests and it seems to be a huge problem. How, if I'm on the more victimhood side, and maybe I don't want to be there, I just find myself there, right? It doesn't mean it's who I am as a person, right? But I'm listening to you going, oh my god the stuff that I've been through in my life isn't even doesn't even hold a drop of water compared to what Sean has gone through and here I am wallowing in the fact that my my boss doesn't give me enough attention or you know my my kid didn't make the a-team of whatever sports they're part of or whatever stupid thing I'm ruminating on and allowing to impact my life how do I start to make the switch to viewing the wet world the way that you do what are what are some initial tactical steps that someone who says, you know what, like if this freaking guy can be this driven considering all that shit that he's been dealt in his life, I can start to be a little tougher and a little more driven in mind. How do they make that change? Great question. And I love these discussions because I was giving a keynote talk at a Fortune 500 company and there were a thousand people in the audience and i stopped as i was wrapping it up because everybody knows what their corporate values are right every large corporation has a set of values pillars that they they live by or they make decisions by and i asked him it was a group of ceos leaders executives how many people in here know what their own personal core values are you know and not not people who have, oh, you know, family, health, wealth, those sorts of things. But how many people have taken time out of their lives, not their day, not their week, but literally their lives, to sit down for 5, 10, 15 minutes to write down five, three, minimum of three, five personal core values and i asked him on a show of hands 10 people maybe i'm like when you get in in difficult times we're all taught when life is easy oh decisions are simple you just keep going with the flow but when life is difficult what do we fall back on when pain when pain starts showing its ugly head, what do we fall back on? And if you don't know what your top personal core values are, how are you going to make decisions in those emergency situations? So the first step, I would say, is to understand and know what your personal core values are. I have mine right here, family, integrity, and personal growth, my top three. So I was also giving a talk about resilience, you know resiliency and i remember i was in in um minneapolis i think it was or um kind of in minneapolis and there was a guy who was up there on stage and he was an nhl national hockey league um hall of fame inductee and somebody in the audience asked him you know how do you build resilience and that was probably the next question well you know you you stiff upper lip, you cowboy up or cowgirl up, you push forward, just the typical things that you would think. And I sat there for a second thinking about that. And I'm like, I don't think resiliency has anything to do with being tough. I think it has to do with loyalty. Loyalty to your personal core values. Because if you look at your personal core values, and you're going towards something that you want and it means something to you and you're remaining loyal to those personal core values, you're going to find a way to make it happen. If family, your children, whatever it might be, you don't have to build resilience. It comes naturally based on the loyalty you have to your personal core values. And I think all the people you were mentioning, again, without getting political, you have this division, right? things have to be tough. Things don't have to be tough. I give up. Neither one of those people have identified their own personal core values. Because if they did, they would understand that they probably still value family. It could be religion. It could be integrity. It could be a personal growth. That could bring people back together again. And you don't have to be tough. You don't have to go through these hard times. Life doesn't have to be difficult. If you know what your core values are, you remain loyal to those, you're going to build resilience, you're going to build those friendships, and you're going to pull people together. So if we struggle, if we're doing an internal self-assessment and resilience is something we struggle with, we negotiate with ourselves and we allow – we make commitments and then we talk ourselves out of them, et cetera. And the issue is a lack of alignment to a set of core values that we actually believe in. Is that fair? Correct. And also continuing where people fall apart. People don't get to a place where all of a sudden everything just falls apart. You can see where those little cracks and fissures begin. And that's when they start justifying things to themselves. hey you know maybe maybe just this one time you know and then that one time turns into two two times turns into three now you're slowly pulling away from your personal core values and if you're not paying attention to those they don't pull you back on track so people don't fall apart they show little cracks and they start to break and i think when you start to start to justify things and you start rationalizing to yourself that's what pulls you further and further away because you're going to have those storms you're going to have avalanches in your life and you have to know who you can fall back on which would be you know your base of family integrity personal growth but if you also have community purpose purpose and consistency in your life now you're going to be able to weather those storms because you have a set of values in place yeah that's um you know what james clear said we don't rise to the level of our goals we fall to the level of our systems and and it seems like i think where i see a miss with a lot of people and even myself when i when i find these cracks in my own life is that that feels like a concept that is very easily applied to a business right like oh yeah systems goals that make sense and oftentimes I feel like a lot of us, myself included, will either fail to apply those same systems and logic to our personal lives, or we just don't slow down enough to create those systems. And therefore, our personal lives can be chaotic, and we might miss marks or negotiate. Kobe Bryant has this incredible quote. It's memed a thousand times over on Instagram, where he's asked a question about how he was able to get up at 3 a.m. every day and do his workouts, right? He's like, all your teammates are getting up at 10 a.m. on game days and you're up at three and already have two workouts in before a game. And he's just like, I don't negotiate with myself. That was the whole answer, start and finish. I don't negotiate. Like if I say I'm gonna do something, I do it and I don't negotiate. That is such a difficult, like it sounds amazing. And on memes on Instagram, it's fantastic. but very, very difficult to implement in our real lives. How do you make sure that you're not negotiating with yourself when that little voice in your head starts telling you, hey, man, you've already done a lot. You lived through some shit. You don't need to keep pushing this hard, Sean. You don't need to do that. Come on, man. Think about what you've been through. Don't you just want some comfort? Wouldn't you just like to enjoy a little more of these things? Like you don't need to be out there so hard. Like how do you say, nah, nah, this is my mission. This is what I do. Like I'm going to keep going. How do you not negotiate with yourself? I think in using Kobe Bryant as an example too, you get to a certain place where you don't negotiate with yourself anymore. Maybe not necessarily because of the systems because I'm constantly traveling, but I'm always going to find a way to look for the excuses. Like you said, I don't want to do this. You know, when we first started, my desktop broke. What I do, grab my laptop because of integrity. You know, and if you look at, I couldn't say, hey, Ryan, we got to cancel. You know, that's just not going to work. I'd use my phone. I'd figure something out. But I think it goes back to, yes, the words you tell yourself. Yes, the systems you have in place. But I think more than anything else, it's your identity. So if you look at the Jewish culture, they don't eat pork. Why? Because that's how they identify them, one of the things they identify with, right? And they just don't do it. So me, obviously, I'm not a smoker. Two cancers, one lung, I'm not going to smoke. But let hypothetically say there are two people and they both trying to quit smoking and they both offered a cigarette The mentality and perspective is different here One person says, no thanks, I'm trying to quit. The other one says, no thanks, I'm not a smoker. That identity that he or she has, the future version of themselves, is different. and it goes back to when I was that young boy on the bottom of the shower floor I didn't want to focus on not dying I wanted to focus on living whatever you're trying to do identify as that and I think that's the key well you have taken sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you there you've taken these concepts and these experiences that you've had in your life and you've turned them into a methodology for success, personally success in business, success in leadership. And I don't want you to give away all the secret sauce. I know you have an amazing book coming out on this exact topic, but I'd love to learn a little bit more about the summit method that you teach and why this concept was worthy of a book. And I mean that in the purest sense, right? I mean, you could probably write books on a lot of topics, and you've chosen the summit method as a core idea. What is this? Why does it work so well? It's interesting because it's a repeatable system. It takes from my journey, which we didn't even talk about climbing the other mountains and running seven marathons on seven continents in seven days, but it takes my lived experience and puts it into a clear, actionable framework, helping people with what they struggle most, like breaking through overwhelm, finding direction, building resilience that actually lasts. And then the whole concept came to me recently when I completed the Explorers Grand Slam, which I think sounds like a Denny's breakfast platter, but I didn't name it. it's the seven summits in the north and south poles and i remember the camera was up there and it panned over to me and it's like sean you just completed something no one in history has ever done before how do you feel you know jokingly my mind was like i'm going to disney world but you know i i said you know i i feel fantastic this is awesome you know for the camera for social media whatever it might be but in all honesty i felt hollow and i was i went home I was depressed for about a month, and I realized I had been checking off these boxes. You know, Everest, the Seven Summits, the World Championship Ironman Triathlon, the South Pole, the North Pole. It wasn't until I realized that there was a deeper purpose behind what I was doing. So that way I was reaching what I call the true north. how many times have you or other people you know or anyone else out there reached your pinnacle reached your peak reached a goal and kind of looked around and thought to yourself well this isn't what i expected it to look like or worse yet they asked themselves now what so that would that that occurred to me happened to me the first time when i was going through my cancer the second time i was going through my cancer when they gave me 14 days to live, year and a half of not knowing if I was going to live. Doctor says, Sean, you're in remission. Go live your life. You know, the town wanted to have a ticker tape parade. My family have this celebration. Mom, dad, family, everybody was super happy. My first thought wasn't, yay, I'm in remission. I can go live my life. My first thought was, now what? So everybody, I think, has had these false summits. You know, it drains your energy. When you get to the top, you see another higher spot. You think to yourself, I need to get that. So you waste more time, more energy going after things that don't even matter to you. And you get there and you're unfulfilled because success doesn't always equal fulfillment. The true summit method combines success and fulfillment. I think that the way that you're articulating is fantastic. I couldn't agree with you more. You know, I know you don't know that much about my own story, but I started a business in 2020. I sold the business in 2022 and I exited right at the beginning of 2024. And when I left that business, it wasn't necessarily on the exact terms that I maybe had envisioned in my mind. and the biggest thing that caught me off guard was how lost I felt. I just had this great day. I created something from nothing, with nothing, turned it into millions upon millions of dollars of value, employed 27 people, by all accounts, a wonderful achievement, right? and even to this day I still haven't fully reclaimed like my mission I've I felt utterless for a while I mean I'm I'm starting I'm starting to feel much more aligned you know just it took me a while to figure it out right and it's very despite all the experience that I've had in my life and all the different things that I could be very proud of and I've lived a very blessed life man, when you don't have a mission, when you don't have, when you lose touch with something that's bigger than yourself, it's like you said, it's like it doesn't matter what the accomplishment was, it lacks depth, it lacks density is maybe a better way of putting it. I think the word you used was hallow and I think that's a very appropriate way of describing the emotion that you feel when you lose that sense of working for something bigger than yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting when you do reach those false summits, you arrive, you know, there, there's no, there's no real ownership of, of an emotional feeling to it because you feel disconnected. And like I said, you, you constantly go after you with the proverbial you, you know, you go after these things and you think once I get X, you know, it's going to make me feel happy. Or once I get Y, I'm going to be successful or feel success. It doesn't work that way. You know, and I think that goes back to what I mentioned earlier about having an identity. You know, how do you identify, you know, and who do you identify as? You know, I was doing a mastermind here in Colorado not long ago and we broke up in a different group and I think there were six of us around a table. And one of the questions was, you know, who are you? And everybody used what they do to describe who they were. You know, I'm a CEO here. I do this. Like, you're telling me what you're doing. You know, we're human beings, not human doings. And you're telling me, you're describing your resume. Like, who are you? And then we went around and did the whole thing again. Like, I'm a father. And I'm not. I'm just saying, you know, I'm a father. I enjoy this. I feel happy when this happens. These are my goals. This is who I am at the core. I value this. And that tells me who you are. Not I'm an author. I'm a CEO. I'm a world record holder. Because if I look back on my life, I'm not most proud of holding multiple world records. I'm most proud of taking other people up Kilimanjaro. I've been up Kilimanjaro 27 times. I do a trip every year, right? I'm most proud of helping people and leading them from behind by empowering them to go forward. Not the records. Those things, that's great, you know, but it doesn't define who I am as a human being. I've been up Kilimanjaro 27 times. 27 times. I didn't know that. Yeah, I was actually adopted into one of the local tribes over there. And they gave me a fun Swahili name now because I've used the same group every year. I've seen their kids grow up and they call me Mzungu Kicha in Swahili, which translates into crazy white man. So I'm like, thanks, guys. Have you gotten bored? Does the view off the top of Kilimanjaro, is that like boring like your morning commute now? Like you've done it so many times that this breathtaking view is just like ho-hum or? No. One of the things that I really love about it is the group dynamics because I've taken a 13-year-old and a 70-year-old. There's nothing technical about it. It's an altitude hike. And I love seeing people form these bonds and sharing the local culture with people. So every time we go over, it's not about the mountain. It's not about reaching the top. I mean, the average success rate is 48%, but my groups are at 99% success rate. We do things very differently. And I love the friendships, the bonds, the communication, the conversation going up the mountain. Each trip I take over is entirely different. The trail is the same. The mountain is the same. Everything physically is the same. But the takeaway is always different. Amazing. Sean, it has been such a pleasure spending time with you today. I mean, your story is just incredible. And, you know, as we talked about at the beginning, the thing that just leapt off the page as I'm going through all your work, and it was just – I think it's incredible. And maybe at this point you're maybe so far removed from it that it isn't as impressive to you personally. But I've just known so many people and have seen and interacted with so many people who would allow what happened to you to define their life from a very negative standpoint. And you have turned it into such an amazing experience that I'm sure you wish you didn't have to go through. But you seemingly have made the absolute most out of that experience being placed upon you. And I'm just so glad to have met you and spent time and share your story. I know that my audience is going to want to dive into what you do and become part of your crew. What is the best way for them to do that? That's probably the easiest question that we've had so far. Just go to SeanSwaner.com. Sean, like S-E-A-N, the proper way, the Irish spelling. And then just like the Warner Brothers, but slapping S on the front. SeanSwaner.com. Tremendous. Guys, I will have that link in the show notes, whether you're watching on YouTube or listen, wherever you listen, just scroll down. You'll be able to find it. I highly recommend you follow along with what Sean is doing. It is not just inspirational from the standpoint of the experiences that you create, but man, some of the wisdom and the guidance and the different things that you talk about in your keynotes, it's just phenomenal. And I'm so glad you're out there, man. I'm so glad there are people doing what you do. And it's been a great pleasure to have you on the show. I appreciate it, Ryan. Really appreciate being here. Thank you for the opportunity.се you