Pistons Not Satisfied Yet + KD On Team USA’s Future & Jokic Is Looking Human??

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from Detroit, Michigan. I think I saw the other day, your senior, senior writer, Vince Goodwill. Yeah, that's one of those things. I'm junior in real life. I guess a senior at ESPN. I'm moving up in the world. Vincent Goodwill Jr. That's hard, by the way. I mean, you two are talking about, you know, some of these. We're about to talk Cavs Pistons. Y'all can go back to like. Excuse me, sir. You have not been introduced yet. Okay. Joining us from Sacramento, California, senior writer, Anthony Slater. I would question my tag more than Vinny's. Well, are you Anthony Slater Sr.? No. Oh, yes. It's funny. Yes, I guess I am. I don't know. That's not something I've been thinking about much, but yes, that is actually correct. AJ, you're a junior, and so you're a senior, right? Yeah. All right, Vince, you're back home in Detroit because there's a big game on Friday night. You know, like, let's be honest, we're in February. It's not like it's nothing. But, you know, the Pistons are going to want to send a little message because I know they beat the Thunder on Wednesday night, but the Thunder were missing all their guys. and I could tell they felt a certain way. Cade was terrible in the second half of that Spurs game, and I could just see in his eyes in the first quarter last night. He wanted to get that taste out of his mouth. He and Jalen Dern went 23 of 33 or something combined in the game against the Thunder. Of course, it's one thing, with all due respect to Jalen Williams, Arkansas, Jalen Williams, who had one of the best offensive games in his career. when Jalen Dern is rolling downhill on the pick and roll and it's Jalen Williams down there and it's not Victor Weminyama, it's not quite the same. But still, the points count the same. Yeah, well, air quotes Thunder, too. I mean. Yeah, I know. I think six of their top eight were out. So that felt like the sound presti special. Yeah, having said that, the Thunder played until the last minute of the game. And they got a big game off. themselves on Friday. But first, Vince, I want to talk about this. It's an ESPN all-access game. There was a while, I mentioned this on the pod a few months ago, there was a time at which I thought I was going to be at this game, Vince, and I had actually not been to Little Caesars Arena. Well, better known as LCA. I thought this was going to be the time. But just be honest, like, the ace card came out from inside the NBA and inside the NBA, Charles, Shaq, Kenny, Ernie, they got that gig and uh countdowns relegated to the bench so uh i won't be coming to detroit wow is inside going live from detroit no i don't think they're going to detroit we were going to go to detroit i mean this is probably pulling back the curtain too much i probably shouldn't be saying this and i'll get my hands slapped but uh it actually isn't like that there's just a schedule change it wasn't like they pulled rank on us but there was what there was a time and i just i just mentioned it because i mentioned it a few months ago like i'm going to detroit soon and then I'm not going to Detroit. But maybe in the playoffs, Vince. But anyway. You'll be there in May. Yeah. Listen, so anyway, big game for the Pistons. Cavs coming in. They just rested a bunch of guys in Milwaukee on Wednesday night. So those should be rested. So, hey, this is Eastern Conference showdown here. Is this like 2006 all over again, Wendy? It is not. We're not back to those days. Well, this is Cleveland versus Detroit. Like, you know, this is, you know, you guys are always kind of in those days also still. So, I mean, you can watch it with that nostalgia. It's a long time ago. I had a much different haircut. I didn't have a beard. And in 2006, I was a tender 21 years old. So this is a much different ballgame than this. I am fascinated, Wendy. The James Harden thing takes a little bit of sting out of the game just because you want to see him at 100%. No Isaiah Stewart, who's serving game six of the seven-game suspension. Like, that's the thing. I want to see how Detroit's bigs, who function in power, deal with Cleveland's bigs, who function differently. And Cleveland's bigs were masterful against the Knicks on, what was that, Tuesday night? And in Cleveland? Yes, yes. They were masterful. And one of my big doubts about Cleveland as a whole was, can Jared Allen and Evan Mobley hold up through the rigors and the physicality of the playoffs? Detroit majors in physicality. It's a fair question, as any Cavs fan will tell you. So I'm fascinated by tomorrow's game as a whole. I don't know if this is an Eastern Conference Finals preview, but it could be a second round preview. Like if you look at the top four teams in the East, Detroit, Boston, New York, and Cleveland, any iteration could wind up being the case in the second round, especially if Philadelphia doesn't get their act together. So I'm kind of excited for this game, Wendy. Can you hear those birds tweeting? It's like the spring has already sprung there in Northern California. Oh, man, it is great out today. What is all access? What is this going to entail? What does the viewer have to look forward to? I shouldn't really be pulling the curtain back, but... Okay, I mean... You know, allegedly we get a little bit more footage, behind-the-scenes footage. But let's just say some years the All-Access game has more behind-the-scenes footage than others. I did the All-Access game last year, which happened to be in Paris. So I get to go to Paris, Vince. I didn't get to go to Detroit. Got to go to Paris. Didn't get to go to Detroit. Well, you know they say Detroit is like Paris of the United States. And I mean that for real. Paris is southeast Michigan. That's what I would say. No, because a lot of Detroit names are French. Detroit is a French city. Like, des trois. Like, a lot of names are said with a French sort of accent to it. There's a whole bunch of cities and places in, like, western Ohio and in Michigan that have French names. where long ago they quit pronouncing it with the French names, such as, or just in the Midwest in general, such as Illinois, for example. There's a city in Ohio that if a French person saw it, they would call it Bellefountain. But if you're from there, you call it Bellefountain. I'll give you one, Wendy. I'll give you one. There's a street in Detroit that if you say it, it goes from Detroit to the suburbs. If you see it, it looks like Gradyette. It's pronounced Gratiot. I would, I don't know how I would spell, but I would say maybe it would be pronounced Grady-A. T-I-O-T. No longer. T-I-O-T. Oh, T-I-O-T. Okay. All right. Hey, listen, man. You can't, you can't force the culture on the people. People will do what they want. Wendy, it's going to be fun. Like, you know, the Oklahoma City game took some, had some sting out of it because so many guys were missing. I wasn't here for Monday's game against San Antonio, but you could hear it through the TV. Like the crowd was into it until Big Slim decided to send everybody home. But I think there's these sort of, like there's these few games that happens on the calendar. Like we all say that 82 games is 82 games, but there's a few games and Slater, you're used to covering the Warriors where the team coming in gets up. the team that's at home gets up and there's a little extra, you know, whether it's an ESPN game or a TNT game back when they had it, like where you can feel like it's worth more than that. And I'm sure the Cavs want to send a message that, hey, with James Harden here and Donovan Mitchell in the backcourt, we're a different team than the team that you guys saw a month or so ago. Detroit laid a whooping on Cleveland in Cleveland, J.B. Bickerstaff's old team. Like there's always something extra there. Now you add the James Harden element to it. And like, this is going to be a heavyweight matchup. And the last time I thought it was going to be a heavyweight matchup, Wendy, it was going to be a Madison Square Garden last week. And Detroit came in and dismantled the New York Knicks. I don't think that the same thing is going to happen. I think this is going to be a competitive ballgame. What's the local belief in these Pistons? I feel like it's a good time to be a Detroit fan, right? With what the Lions have done the last couple of years, the Tigers have had some runs. like where because I agree with you, but I don't know what you want to. I watched that Spurs game and I was like, man, it's a really good crowd. It felt a little playoffy early. You know, it's those first quarter crowds, right? I mean, a lot of these NBA crowds can get into the game if it's close late. There's some big plays by stars, but it was one of those like it's 13 to 9 in the first quarter in the Pistons. The Pistons went down early and then they made like a little like 8-0 run to make it 14-10 and it was explosive in the arena. I was like, wow. Lindsey Hunter? Yeah, there you go. John Mason was still on the mic. Yeah. What's the vibe there? You know what's funny? There's two segments of fans. There's the fan that is legitimately happy. Man, we ain't been relevant in damn near 20 years. We can actually participate in NBA conversations. Like we got a guy, you know, we got stability, all this other stuff, right? Like happy to be here fan. Then there's the other fan. The other fan is, why didn't we do nothing at the trade deadline? Boston's coming. New York's coming. Cleveland's coming. We know what winners look like. This is such an incomplete team. This team isn't as good as their record. We need to get a guy that can help Kay Cunningham. We may never get a chance to get to the finals again. We're blowing and squandering an opportunity. It's literally those two camps, believe it or not. And because the Lions have blown opportunities, because the Lions are the Lions, and they blow every damn thing. Like there's a battered fan sort of element to it where from the outside looking in, it's like, oh, man, this team is relevant again. But on the inside, it's like, man, not again. Don't break our hearts. You know, don't don't bring us to the precipice again only to have something. Because a lot of people last year, Slater, were despondent that the Pistons lost to the Knicks in the first round. They felt like the Knicks were frauds. You know, thank you very much for saying that. OK, let me just say something there. So Mark Spears from Manscaped has a story coming out tomorrow. He was telling me about it today. And it was with Jalen Duren. And Duren was talking about how he still wakes up at night upset about losing that series. And I was just saying, okay, they lose in the first round 4-2. They don't have beef stew, which everybody knows would have made a big difference. I mean, he got hurt during the series, but they didn't have him at the end. No Jaden Ivey. Jaden Ivey. and like he's acting like it left like this scar. I mean, I respect it. I was just kind of surprised. Well, don't you remember over the course of that series, there was multiple times it felt like the Pistons were gaining control. Like I think it's harder for a team, especially a young team, to absorb a series loss when there was some legitimate moments where they thought they could win it. And the national audience did too, right? How about that Barry Sanders pivot? Is that a fair assessment, Vince? It's the Barry Sanders pivot that Jalen Brunson put in to get that. Not just that. The worst thing was the Tim Hardaway non-foul call in game four where Josh Hart filed him. The refs admitted it afterwards after they saw the replay. It was bad. They won two games at Madison Square Garden. And when you take two games on the road, you're feeling like, okay, you feel like you're the better team and you don't win a game at home when you don't win a game at home in the series. it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, especially if you felt like you gave one away They gave away game six All right With respect to the Pistons fans I didn compute that I forgot I know they were probably like how could you forget that? It was a degree. That was not good. That was not good. It was a scarring series within, I think. Clearly. Well, I'm saying, it's not up to me. If Jalen says that, he means it. Can I also go back to one of Vinny's earlier points? I think the second fan has a point. The second type of Detroit fan. You know, sure it's fun and you know let's say the pistons just go to the second or you know round or the conference finals this year okay it's just a stepladder i think the lions comparison is apt didn't dan campbell have some like famous quote after that yeah infamous i would say it's an infamous quote infamous quote yeah there you go um this may never get back again right now we never get an opening conference jason tatum and tyrese albert and we'll be back next year um and again I'm not saying the Pistons won't have more opportunities, but this is a prime one. And Kevin Herter was their big deadline acquisition. I think I saw him enter the game in like the fourth quarter for the first time. Well, he was a deadline acquisition. I wouldn't say he was a big deadline. Well, I'm saying wasn't he their biggest one? He was there all the time. I think I'm with you, Slater, not on this year being the only opportunity, but you need to make moves to keep up with what everybody has coming back. Don't forget the Pacers are going to have a lottery pick. Who knows if that lottery pick is going to play early, but it's a very good draft. It could be a top five pick. Like Boston's going to be back. The Knicks aren't necessarily going anywhere. I think the Eastern Conference as a whole is a force to be reckoned with. So you don't make a move necessarily now just to try to get to the finals. But maybe you make a move because you realize what's on the horizon. And you have to make sure that, you know, with Asar Thompson and Ron Holland and all these guys who are developing, that you have another guy so that Kay Cunningham is not by himself as the only guy that can create or make a shot. Well, look, I have been saying on TV this week because Pistons obviously had a couple of big games already. And they, by the way, they go on a road trip where they go to San Antonio and to Cleveland next week. So we're going to be talking about them a bit here. But I've been saying on TV this week that they remind me of the finish your breakfast thunder from two years ago. So that was a team won 57 games. You know, there was calls during the year to upgrade their roster. They didn't do it. They ended up trading for Gordon Hayward, but that was sort of a cap move. It didn't work out. But they obviously, they didn't get out of the second round. They lost to Denver in the second round. No, Dallas. I covered that series. I covered that series. Another series that really could have flipped either way. They went up three, two in it. Yeah, well, they laid an egg. in that one home game. Was that game five? It was game five. U2, they had a chance. They were favoriting game five. And then game six is Shea. Remember the foul? Shea in the corner, he fouls P.J. Washington. It was like this. He was despondent about the foul postgame. Anyway, that was a scarring series. Young teams have to learn. So, but then they went out and they got, they traded for Alex Caruso and they signed Isaiah Hartenstein and they pulled up the trophy. And like, it doesn't, it's not a guaranteed path, but the Thunder had their reasons for finishing their breakfast, as it were. I don't know. I made a joke that they were maybe on brunch, but it sounds to me like those dudes are ready for dinner. So I just don't know if organizationally they are. Let me ask you, and I don't know if this trade would have been available at the deadline, but let's say instead of flipping Josh Giddey for Alex Caruso that summer, instead you rewind a few months and they flip Josh Giddey for Alex Caruso at the deadline, and you had Alex Caruso in that playoff series where Josh Giddey for all of his bonuses, positives that he's added to the Bulls in that Dallas Mavericks series, go look at the plus minus. I mean, by the end, they have to. That's why they call hindsight 2020. Well, I guess my point is, as we go back to these Pistons. Right, you're saying if they had done it then, maybe they won the championship two years ago. Possibly, maybe they win that series. And to the point of like, maybe the, you know, you can speed up your, you can attempt to speed up your timeline. I don't even know if I'm arguing for it. I don't know what was available to the Pistons. You could make a rash, bad move also, but. Here's my belief, guys. And I want to see where you stand with me on this in general. And I'm a big history guy. So let me go into crates for a second, Slater. I know, you know, I'm old, even though black don't crack, right? Senior writer. There we go. That's right. There has never been, unless you add LeBron James or Kevin Garnett, there has never been a team, and Wendy, correct me if I'm wrong, that goes from not winning a playoff series from the year before to going all the way to the NBA finals, short of the Orlando Magic in 1995. That's it. That's it. You got to have some real playoff pain. Which is why I think it's, you know, I can't remember if it was McMahon or Bontemps. They said, yeah, they had Shaq and maybe the Spurs, maybe that's Wemby and that's, you know, maybe that's, you know, maybe that's the outlier. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. But I will say this. So I think what you're talking about with the bigs is, I think the battle of the bigs will be huge in this game and in this series. You know, you mentioned Jared Allen. Let me give you Jared Allen's January numbers and his February numbers because they sort of, not that the month matters, but in this particular case, it does make a difference. So in January, Jared Allen played 30 minutes a game. So I just want to be clear that the numbers are going to be the same because he also played 29 minutes a game in February. Average 12 points, eight rebounds. Good numbers. Shot 60% from the field. He's always shot that high. 15% usage rate. Good. You know, fine. In February, two things happened. One, Evan Mobley got hurt. He missed a couple of weeks. And two, James Harden got traded there. Now, Harden's only played in seven of these 10 games, but it'll affect it. So in the 10 games in February, 22 points a game. 12 to 22. 12 rebounds so same same minutes 22 points 12 rebounds up from 12 and 8 73 percent from the field because Harden is getting him the ball at the rim and the usage rate from 15 to 23 so this is a big topic of conversation in Cleveland every time I do Cleveland stuff Vince they're like Jared Allen Jared Allen Jared Allen Jared Allen and I have to say like I have to admit like this is a pretty significant, you know, move here. I just say, listen, don't talk to me about Jared Allen and Evan Mobley until we get to the playoffs because Evan Mobley's value in matchups defensively in the playoffs is going to be magnified. So don't pull up the spreadsheet and start talking to me about what Evan's shooting from three. Having said that, like, you know, if this Jared Allen thing is real, you better show it to me against Jalen Duren. And Jalen Duren's going to know about this. How about his numbers lately? Well, Jalen Durland's numbers last night were pretty damn good. What, 29-16? Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. Kane had 29-13 assists. Yeah, I mean, we're skipping over Harden a little bit. That's probably the major storyline going into tomorrow. If he does attempt to play, he's going to play. He broke the tip of his right thumb. It's not displaced. They showed it to a hand specialist. I was told he would have played last night if the Cavs weren't in punt formation. because it's the fifth game in seven nights. He wants to play. Now, I don't know how it's going to feel when he's, you know, it's his right hand, not his left. Let me just tell you right now, he is officially listed as questionable because it is now 5 p.m. Eastern on the East Coast. So injury reports come out, he's questionable. Okay. I don't know. Maybe he won't play. I think he's going to play. But I don't know. I want him in Mitchell out, right groin strain. Oh, really? Oh. That's what I'm reading right now. that's breaking news so womp womp cut this whole part of the podcast out yeah well they play again in two two games yeah uh and i mean if donovan mitchell's not playing i guess my general point on the um because at least we're having bigger picture conversations about these teams not just what's gonna happen tomorrow night but shouldn't harden just rest right now like i understand that the cavaliers want to gain a rhythm and there's still some standings jostling but if he can just rest and from what I gather it's only like a two three week type injury like don't you want this not lingering Jeff Stotts so Jeff Stotts in street close he came out with he said that the average missed games for players with this you know fingertip injury although I would have to assume that it would really depend on the finger right like if you if you break your pinky finger and the thumb would seem like the most important finger right maybe if you're shooting your middle finger if it was your shooting hand your middle finger would be an issue but he said it's an average of six games. That's what his database shows. So this is not like just necessarily just tape it up for everybody. Well, I guess my point is I understand he wants to probably show toughness to his new team, right, and get some wins, get some rhythm under their belt. But they're not in some dire situation. Like they could go into the playoffs with the four, whatever, and you'd probably feel comfortable. I don't know if pushing it risks either lingering or re-injury or whatever, but I'm just surprised how quickly he is trying to get back. From what I've heard, he's going to see a specialist to see if playing on it will make it worse. And that, to me, says, I want to play. I just need to make sure that I'm not doing further damage to it, which means he's going to play. There's a lot of things that people can say about James Harden, and a lot of things will be true. The one thing that you can't really say is that he doesn't play. Like, you can wonder if he shows up, but he plays. Like, remember that series, Wendy and Slater, Brooklyn Nets, Milwaukee Bucks, and he had, what was it, a hamstring that was really bad? Second degree, supposedly, yeah. And Kyrie was already out with the ankle that he sprained in game three, I want to say, when Giannis got him a little bit. And as opposed to leaving Kevin Durant all by himself, Harden strapped it up and went out there. Now, granted, different situation. It's the playoffs. It was a dire situation. But Harden shows that he plays. And even when he ain't in shape, he plays. So he probably feels like Donovan's out. I'm not going to leave these guys out. I'm left-handed. This is a right-hand injury. He can rationalize this whole thing. And that's one of the things that Kevin Durant said. I mean, I've talked about this before. But, you know, obviously that was the toe series where Durant's toe's on the line. so it's a two, so they go to overtime, not a three, and they win the series. And a lot of people felt that, you know, if the Nets, if he had been a step back and he'd hit the three, that the Nets could have won the title that year because the Bucs, you know, won the title. But, and Durant was like, you guys know that, like, Harden could barely run, right? Like, he's like, you can just give us eight more playoff games. The Atlanta Hawks would have won the title that year. That's how legit, or Chris Paul would have got his title. Can you imagine? The Phoenix Suns. The Phoenix Suns and dominating DeAndre Ayton probably. There we go. There we go. Phoenix was up 2-0. I covered that series. How about that feature that our boy Dave McMenamin wrote about DeAndre Ayton that came out today? There's a lot of interesting stuff in there, but I like that the training staff puts DA's crunk juice. They write that on the side of his water bottle. Do you all remember? That was a really good playoff run by DeAndre Ayton. He like played Jokic really well. I was convinced that that Suns team was going to win the title that year or the next year. Convinced they were going to win the title. I thought that team had, I was in Phoenix so often, like, well, the first year was a COVID year. But I was in Phoenix so often the next year that I had to, I've said, I had to file taxes in Arizona. And I felt that that team had everything that you needed to win the whole thing. Including a dominant rising center. He really was that after that playoff run. you felt. I mean, look, go look at his numbers. Supposedly the word you know the lore is that the whole team caught COVID I think they caught Luka but you know the whole team caught that what people say Anyway speaking of Durant to pivot here Vince you had an interesting story that came out last week I've been sort of saving it for you to come out here. You did an interview with Durant talking about Team USA in 28, where he declared he'd like to play, number one. He declared some other things, but I wonder if you'd tell us about that interview. Well, it's funny because the timing of it, and for those who don't know, we pulled behind the curtain. These features are planned to be released weeks, if not months in advance. So someone put in my mentions, Kevin Durant's only saying this because he's got the burner controversy. Hey, y'all, Kevin Durant did this interview with me in January in Detroit, like literally like maybe the second to last week in January, where he talked about wanting to play. And he talked about the disparity and the narratives between the American players and international players, all the type of stuff. So let's get that out the way. The thing that struck me, though, Wendy, was the passion in which he said, of course, I want to play. Like, why wouldn't I want to play? I don't get this last dance stuff that you guys are talking about. I never said I wasn't going to play. And I think there's a part of him that he wants to be around these young guys and sort of be the bridge because this is going to look like a completely different ball club in 28. he could wind up being one of maybe three holdovers, Wendy, should you say? Like Jason Tatum will be there, will be there, maybe Devin Booker will be there, maybe like four or five guys. Devin Booker played a brilliant role. I would say that, we'll talk about the roster in a minute. I want you to keep talking about the interview. Steve Kerr was like glowing about Devin Booker afterwards. I'll talk to you about the interview. After you talk about the interview, I'll talk about this. Can I say one more other thing? Because Kevin Durant mentioned it. Steph Curry, I would be stunned if he plays. He's already said he's highly doubtful. I think he checked that resume box, and he's not feeling quite the way that KD is. But go ahead, Ben. No, I think Stephen Curry's going to retire after next year. That's a story for another day. That's a take. I'm not quite there, but I don't think he'll be in the 2028. I always pull these off to the side here. I went with my son's basketball team to see the GOAT movie last weekend, Steph Curry's movie. I don't know. He's a good producer. I don't know if it's his movie. He's heavily involved. Awesome. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Although, Wendy loves all of Steph's side projects. The DeChambeau is still one of the top five sporting events. Listen, with all due respect to Space Jam 2. Wow. Goat is the goat. That's all I'm going to say. Shots fired. Blue, blue. No, back to KD. It's funny. He told me that he plays GM sometimes with the roster. says who he wants to play with not like I'm picking the players but just who's going to be on his roster and he said hey you know I've called Grant Hill and made suggestions and stuff like that so I think it's going to be like when you look at the pool it's probably easily when the pool about 20 guys that have a real case to go and this is just the younger guys like the the Jalen Williams is, the Chet Holmgrens, the Evan Mobleys. Like you have to, and for once, I think the U.S. is in this position where they have to carefully construct their roster based on the competition. And I don't just mean getting Joel Embiid to guard Nikola Jokic. I mean, you legitimately have to compile a roster that has to contend with what France is going to do, or more or less contend with what Big Slim is going to do. And that's a position that for all iterations of USA Basketball, Wendy, since USA Basketball has become to be the thing that we know it as post-1992, they've never been in this position where we can't just trot out the best nine and then three or maybe the best 12 altogether. We have to carefully construct the roster because we have to contend with a player for which there is no answer. Yeah, okay. So a few things. So first off, Kevin Durant is the greatest Olympian in the history of the sport, and he has a red carpet to play however long he wants to play. He, you know, that is, you know, obviously he has to state his intention to want to play, but that is not an issue. He absolutely, you know, it's only memory. The Tokyo Olympic Games, nobody seems to ever talk about them. I agree it didn't have the drama of the Paris Games. Durant was, you know, still kind of getting back from the Achilles and was absolutely a killer. Brought the U.S. that gold medal, period. So I just want to say that. So the thing about the way that the Team USA structures their team, and Durant was funny on this. I can't remember if he said this in the documentary or if he gave another interview, but Durant, you know, he talked about the Europeans to you, Vince. What did he say to you? I don't want to misremember. I want to know. No, no, he basically just talked about he was like defending AU culture. And his whole thing is I don't like the narrative that says everything the Europeans do is right. Everything the Americans do is wrong. Right. You know, AAU culture, this, da, da, da, da, da. He said, he said, France is coming for us. We smacked them boys. That was exactly the phrase. And as I'm holding my recorder, I'm like, Jesus, this is gold. I don't mean gold medal, this is gold. And it's so true. It took a turn, Wendy. It took a turn into racial conversation, not racial conversation in terms of weird, but it took a turn that that Poole quote has been a linchpin for conversation about, well, what did he mean by this? And it's Black Americans and it's an all-star game. And it's been a bunch of different stuff that's happened since the story is dropped a couple days ago. It ain't an all-star game. They got to play hard to win, but that's not here nor there. I love Durant's trash talk. during the Olympic stuff because so often it's great. And like I said, he's got an untouchable resume. Like people can like criticize or talk about the Warriors years or whatever. That gets my back up, but forget about all that. Durant's resume in Olympic basketball is pristine. But he has great smack talk. So this was happening before, as is an old trope, the Europeans, they talk about how they've got all this, you know, you know, culture together because they've played since they were kids, blah, blah, blah. And that's all true. That's, that's real stuff. And Durant was like, how's that going to help? I don't know if this is an exact quote, but before the Olympics last year, he's like, that's all great. How is it going to help you guard Steph? How's culture? How's camaraderie going to help you guard Steph? And that's, that is like what the Europeans are saying is right, but what he said is right too. And, you know, at the end of the day, Steph is throwing shots in from all over the freaking arena in Paris. And what are they going to do? Like the French are just, what are they going to do? So, and what was the thing that he said when they, I think it was when they won the semifinals. Somebody said it was at the end, that NBA basketball, I think it was Schroeder, right? Said it was about entertainment. And I don't remember, man, I wish I'm botching this, But Schroeder said something about NBA players or about entertainment. And then Durant put something on IG, said, you know, entertaining. I don't know. I botched it. But Durant talked smack to Schroeder about that. And the thing about it is I go to these European press conferences. And what they say is true. When they talk about the European style of basketball and the way they play, in a vacuum, it is correct. Like they play sort of a more correct, cohesive style of basketball than the Americans do. And like, it's like the thing, like, what are you going to do? Like, you know, what are you going to do when you go up against a guy who's just better than you? Like your technique can be better, but the other dude's going to bust you. And like Durant like believes in that. He's a baller and he does it and he's done it over and over. And it's true. And I think it's funny. But the way the Americans play in the Olympics, this is their strategy. I know I'm not breaking any ground, but sometimes it's helpful to make it reductive. They can't replicate the European teams specifically. They can't replicate their precision and the way they play within a system, that they've played within a system for years and that they can just fall into that. They can't replicate that chemistry. But what Americans can do, quite frankly, that no other team in the world has demonstrated they can do, is they can defend. Nobody has the athleticism that the Americans have where they can defend with that athleticism. And so it is Team USA's strategy and has been for decades to have 10 or 11 guys that you play. The 12th is a little bit hard, with apologies to Mr. Tatum, in 24. Tatum was an important member in 21, will probably be a vital member in 28. But, you know, 10 or 11 guys, and you play to exhaustion on defense. And then when those five Hall of Famers get whistled out, here comes five more Hall of Famers who will play to their exhaustion on defense. And you've got Anthony Davis coming off the bench, swatting four or five shots like he did in the gold medal game. That's basically the U.S. strategy. And so they want athletes who defend. Yes, you need to have big guards. That was the thing that the U.S. learned before, that, you know, there's a lot of big guards in Europe. They're not always fast, but they're usually bigger. Yes, you've got to have three-point shooting because the three-point line is a little bit closer. And, you know, the Europeans are going to, you know, try to play the mathematics game with you. That's all true. But the system that the U.S. has developed is you've got to have defenders, athletic defenders. So, Wendy, two things. The Kevin Durant, Dennis Schroeder quote, Dennis Schroeder said, it's no entertainment, straight IQ basketball, straight coaching. He's saying that's what European basketball is. KD tweeted, KD got on Twitter, of course, his favorite pastime and said, entertainment and IQ. And IQ. Right. They just don't have the European teams got seven footers who can shoot threes and will come in there and put their backside in your in your face and shove you out of the way. But they can't they don't got Ant Edwards. They don't got Ant Edwards is, you know, running around out there. They just don't have them. Obviously, like the top five in the MVP, you know, the last couple of years has been all international, right? Shea, Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and then Wimby's rising into it. So I think there's too much of this fear that it's like all these international superstars rising and where is America looking? Like, look at these last two drafts, the one that just happened. Who are the top three rookies this year? Cooper Flagg, Conker, and Harper, you'd say, All-American. And then this draft that everybody's glowing about coming up, it's like, go look at the mocks of the lottery. I think like the top 10, basically, are all USA. All right. Well, so let's talk about the 28 Olympics real quick here. So that's probably more of a 2032 thing, but I'm just saying there's a, there is a talent pipeline that is still happening in America. Maybe not. More hoop collective podcast after this. So here's the thing, the way you qualify for the Olympics, it is, it is hard to qualify for the Olympics. Only 12 teams make it like 32 or 36 teams make the world cup. 12 teams make the Olympics. only two teams from the americas typically make the olympics okay there's a way to get wild cards but you know like um try to think who got in with wild cards last time but anyway it's not easy and the way the way that you do that is through the world cup you have to be one of the top two finishers from the americas in the world cup now in the past you know you've been fighting with argentina and brazil they're down a little bit but now you know canada you know canada's right there. And Puerto Rico has made the Olympics before and stuff like that. So the World Cup, you've got to have a good team, typically for the World Cup And the U quite frankly has gotten into the last two Olympics by the skin of their teeth at the World Cup because they haven meddled neither of them OK And so what I will just say is that a big factor in this in this cycle is that the U does not have to qualify because as the host nation they in In fact, France did not qualify at the World Cup in 23 in the Philippines. They got in. I mean, they could have gotten in through a wild card, but they got in because their host status. It was Serbia and Germany that got the European bids. Now, so that is a factor. And so what is going to be interesting is the World Cup in 27, it's next year. Do you know where it is, Vince? I do not. Qatar? Do you know where it is, Slater? Oh, it's Qatar. It is Qatar. It's in Doha. Now, the World Cup is in August in Doha. And like I said, the Americans do not have to qualify. Okay? And Grant Hill has said he's not going to make playing for the World Cup team a prerequisite to play for the Olympic team. So it's going to be a bit of a call to arms for the U.S. guys. Like, you know, Grant Hill is going to say, who wants to come with us to the World Cup, which the Americans haven't won since 2014 and have not medaled the last two times. and you know by the way it's going to be in the middle east in the summer and it doesn't matter whether we win or not or you know get in or you know it doesn't matter whether we finish dead last we're in the olympics that's going to be a call to arms of who really wants to play and if you're a young guy so like you know there's certain guys who have legacy obviously durant you know ann edwards jason tatum booker was so good playing the role that he needed to play in tokyo or in Paris that I would, if he's healthy, there's no, if he wants to play, there's no way I see him not being on the roster. Bam Adebayo has been on the last two teams and is so valuable because he can defend multiple positions. Eric Spolscher is the head coach, obviously. That's true. You know, he jumped me, Vince, in Paris. Really? I was talking on TV. You know, I've done stuff with Bam in the past, but I've talked about this before, but I was talking, you know, Tatum was obviously not playing. I was trying to figure out, I was explaining on TV, you know, like if you know i don't see how tatum is gonna play unless like somebody else doesn't play and i was like you know maybe like bam had a bio so i said that on american tv and um and the next day we were in paris or actually we were in lilo france and bam was like really i'm not gonna play i defend one through five bro i was like hey you're right and guess what he played tatum didn't count me among the people that do not believe that Steve Kerr handled that wrong. Well, that's another story for another day, and I'm not going to get into that today. So, you know, there's some guys who have, you know, cornerstone spots, but look, there's two things I'm going to say. One, if you want to prove yourself to Grant Hill and Eric Spolstra, you're going to go to Qatar next summer and say, all right, I'll go to where it's 115 degrees and I'll try to win the medal. And so you got young guys, Jalen Duren, Chet Holmgren, you know, those are guys who are going to be needed against the bigs from Europe, Victor et al. And I'll throw, you guys know I talk up Con Canupple. Like, I'm not saying he'd be on the 28 team. He could be. His three-point shooting could be very valuable. And Cooper Flagg, Cooper Flagg could make 28 because... Oh, I definitely think he's going to be on 28. I definitely think that. Because you've got to have defense. Personal defenders, yeah. Also, just like, you know, he's name recognition. And he's, in the past, he was on the select team, right? That was like his coming out point. That's when he opened eyes, yeah. Like, I wish I could tell you that the stories about Nike, you know, Nike guys. Like, if it's 50-50, or even if it's 60-40, Nike guys getting it. There's just a lot of evidence that if you're with Nike, because Nike is one of Team USA's main sponsors and has been for decades. Cooper Flag's not Nike. New Balance is that right? New Balance, yeah but you know that doesn't mean he won't earn his way on the team but I'm just saying like if you're a young guy and you want to you know make sure that you get on the team especially if you're not with Nike playing in Qatar will be a factor but yeah they're going to need people to deal with Victor because with all due respect to what Durant says and like here's the thing Durant when Durant talks smack about like the Europeans when it comes to international basketball he is on solid grout because, you know, his resume is just, you know, it's just amazing. Having said that, he was on the team that lost to the French in Tokyo. He fell out of that game, which was a big factor. But, you know, not when it mattered. When it mattered, he delivered. So that'll be interesting. All right, one more big game that we have on Friday. God, I'm afraid about the injury report on this one. Is the Nuggets are playing at the Thunder. The Denver got a much needed win over the Celtics at home on Wednesday night. Guys, Jokic just doesn't look right to me. He missed 17 shots in that game. He doesn't miss 17 shots in five games sometimes. What are they saying about this wrist? I know you've talked about it a couple of times. It's just, you know, it's not bad enough to keep him out. But, you know, he did only have one turnover in that game. In his previous, like, nine games, he was averaging five turnovers. Which is very rare for him. So let me give you Jokic's splits. So he missed all of January. I'm going to give you Jokic's numbers. Shooting splits or points, rebounds? I'm going to give you, just like I did with Jared Allen, okay? So in December, before he got hurt, played 34 minutes. He's played 34 minutes this month, too, so it's flat, just so you know. 31 points 12 rebounds 11 assists 57% overall 41% on threes 85% at the line and let's see he had 45 turnovers in 13 games let me do the math on that that's a little over 3 3 a little over 3 again alright in February which is since he's come back he's played 10 games 34 minutes like I said 26 points So scoring six points less. I had five points less. Still rebounds are still great. 14 rebounds. Assists, two less a game. Nine assists. Those numbers are crazy, right? 26, 12, and 26, 14, and nine. So still great. Field goal percentage from 57 to 48. Three-point percentage from 41 to 33, okay? Free throw percentage from 85 to 78. Obviously, 78's still good, but he's missing free throws. He's missing free throws more than he has. Turnovers from three a game to almost five a game. I had an odd viewing experience with him Sunday afternoon. They played the Warriors. Nobody on the Warriors. You know, the Warriors' four-man guys were all out, including Draymond Green, like, at tip-off, was scratched with a back issue. And, you know, and I get that that's, you know, David Adelman says postgame is confusing when suddenly Draymond Green in the starting line becomes Al Horford, who's a stretch center. They stretch him out. But the Warriors picked on Jokic in the first quarter, and it was third and four nights, and it was an afternoon game, so I can understand some level of fatigue. But he was a defensive problem. I mean, you're mentioning the numbers. I just think defensively, he's looked a little slower and a little bit more disengaged lately. And Al Horford hit three first quarter threes, hit six threes overall, just because Jokic kept straying too far off of him. So that was bad in the first quarter. And then in the fourth quarter, when he comes back in with six minutes left, he's like a minus 11 the rest of the game, does very little. So post-game, the conversation is about, you know, the wrist that you're mentioning, his struggle with reintegrating and some of this rhythm stuff. But then you look at the box score, 35, 20, and 12. And you're like, you know, again, I agree with you. I'm like, it doesn't seem like a good Jokic game. And it felt like he, you know, he was at times a negative impact for them. But also, like, I don't know. The guy had 35, 20, and 12. Dominated the middle quarter. Yeah, I'm not saying he stinks. I'm just saying, like, you know, I just think this injury is still bothering him. I agree with you. And what I would ask, because, you know, having actually watched it, and he can only miss one more game to qualify. Like, he can't miss two games or else he'll be disqualified for MVP and all NBA and all that. I mean, do you think there's anything to do with that? Like, would it be wise if he maybe sat for a week or two? But, you know, and how much is that factoring in? I don't know. Now that I've said this, he'll probably have 56, 19, and 12 in the next three games. No, but you said it. He's human. He does that anyways. And it's just about, is he impacting the game? Anyway, so go ahead. My general thing with him is not necessarily right now. I think of the last two times I've seen him around elimination games. in the second round and a game seven, you know, against the team that's sort of geared to stop him. You know, the year before it was Rudy Gobert and Carl Townsend. Carl Townsend did a remarkable job on him in game seven on the road, Denver being up 20 to the Nuggets running out of gas and Minnesota catching them. Last year, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City putting Alex Caruso on him and just junking up the defense and everything else. my general thing is maybe this month off is good for him so that he's not worn down by then because remember the nuggets i've got what year it was they pushed themselves to the limit to get to the finish line to get the top seed in the west and it wound up biting maybe that was two years ago when they lost to minnesota so i wonder with all the injuries that they've had and maybe it's something to it uh slater where you know mvp is coming up and he he wants to be considered and everything else in the in the numbers and the win shares say that he's still the best player in the game well I wonder if playing through this is a positive as much as okay he missed a month he missed 10 or 12 games or whatever it is and he still needs to be fresh down the stretch in addition to Gordon and Peyton Watson and Christian Brown and all those guys those guys haven't played together at all I think since December 1 Wendy I don't think their starting five has played to get one game together they've played 10 games the whole season and they're eight to. They're starting their opening night. I don't even know if they started an opening night, but their core five has played 10 games. And I don't think they played a game together either since December or January as a whole. That sounds right. Well, it wasn't in January because Jokic didn't play in January. He played one game in January. I think right as Jokic came back, Watson went out. Gordon and Watson went out the next two games. Yeah, they did hold the Celtics to 82 points and beat them in Denver yesterday, so that's worth mentioning. Before we go, Are you guys excited about the Atlanta Hawks' newest promotion? I feel like I'm the only person. Either I'm the only person qualified to talk about this, or I'm the one person who's uniquely qualified to not talk about this. From the people that brought you Swipe Right Night, Atlanta Hawks bring you Magic City Night, which they're playing the magic on. It accomplished what it was intended to. It got people talking. I'm sure it's going to generate more money for them that night. Sure, you're right. Who's that? Bring your singles. The entire city of Atlanta and all their employees across Atlanta. Right. Arena workers and players. Yes. Correct. Come with your clear heels and you get in for half off. These are rejected taglines that Vince is bringing up. All right. Thanks, boys. Thank you to Jackson, Mark, and Devon, our producers. Thank you to Vince and Slater. thanks for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective for another week of glorious content here on the internet we'll talk to you next week