Episode #62 Featuring Baran Dilaver, Founder of WONDERFEEL! A MASTERCLASS on NAD and NMN! The role of NAD in overall health, The difference between NMN and NAD, The TRUE way to boost NAD and more!

Hey everyone, Dylan Giamelli here today with an extremely exciting announcement. I am now on the Menecht app as an expert. That is Patrick Bet David's app so you can hire me today. You can ask me questions about hormones, peptides, neuroscience, cardiology, cellular health, finances, faith, religion, whatever it may be. I am there. You can book me for your podcast and you can also apply to be on mine. But go over, download the Menecht app, find at Dylan Giamelli. I will answer either by audio, by text. You can get video responses. You can even book a phone call with me. I'm extremely excited to be available to work with all of you and I thank you all for your support. So check me out on Menecht today. Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies powered by myto peer. 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And these are always my favorite settings when we get to do them in person. It's just more personable, more impactful. So I was blessed enough to get to sit down with my guest at the, it was at the HOS summit, right? Was it Biohack or some? Biohack, no, I mean, yes, in Austin. I've been to so many, but I hit it off with you like this so fast and it was just amazing, the conversations and the way that we connected. That's our background in terms of how we met and it's just been like an instant friendship since then. And I'm really blessed, first of all, to have met you and to have that. So I just want to say that before we even get into anything. Thank you. You came with blazing questions and excitement. So we're just like, what is why this time? Why is that? What is this? It was fun. I'm like, oh, this guy read these into what he's doing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I can't help it, man. I'm curious by nature. Anyway, my guest, he's an entrepreneur. He's an inventor and he's an accomplished executive. Now, prior, he's led numerous startups and he's served as a CEO and COO at public and private companies. He's done a lot. He's been at a lot of summits. He does several different appearances, the company that he represents and founded that we're going to talk about a lot today is called Wonderfield. And Wonderfield is a longevity focused company. They do wellness biosciences. And the main product is NMN. So we're going to have a deep dive on NMN, NAD. We're going to do it all. We're going to overcome obstacles of information that need to be overcome. And we're going to talk about the massive benefits. We're going to talk about what you do, brother. So, Baron, it is absolutely wonderful to have you. Baron Delaver, co-founder, CEO, Wonderfield. Thanks for having me. Good to see you. Hey, man. Thank you for coming in to see me because I know it's a trip to come in here, but it is so much more fun and so much more impactful, like I said. So I want to utilize all this time with you to break this all down. Well, let's maybe talk about what NMN does, because a lot of people have heard about NAD. They're here to know Justin Bieber and all these big names and Kelly Jenner. They're all using it. Exactly. And they're taking IV shots. I mean, they're taking shots. They're doing IV. So what is NAD? And there's a technical way of explaining it with that NAD, you'll be dead in 10 seconds. It's key to energy production in the mitochondria. NAD helps the ATP production. It takes place in 300, over 300, 400 actually. Enzymatic processes, it helps with DNA repair, but that's very technical. So I have a different way of explaining what NAD is with an analogy, and I feel like people connect to it. So think about NAD as sort of the water source, the river that comes from the mountain and feeds the valley where there are like one or two towns. There are orchards, there are farms. People are using the water, the river for fishing, for transportation. So it's the life support that is so essential. And what really matters is, you know, when you're younger, that water source is flowing really nicely. It's clean. And as you get older, the water starts becoming less and less, maybe clean, or like there's maybe less water, or it's not consistent. And what does that mean? And it doesn't, the impact is not instant. You know, people are still using it for drinking. I'm talking about the valley now, we're back in the valley. But, you know, some years your apple orchard doesn't produce as many orchards. Just think about it as, you know, one of your organs, maybe your liver is not processing certain things as well. Maybe your skin is, you know, reacting. Inflammation is a good example. You know, people have inflammation. So in like one year, your strawberry fields are not producing as many strawberries or you don't have as much fish anymore. So if people are used to, you know, eating fish and fishing in the, from the river, they have to find a different source. So that's another organ having to like use a different way to cope with it. It's like the well drying up. Slowly. Yes. Okay. All right. When it comes to NAD, let me ask you this. Why is it that it wasn't discussed 10, 15, 20 years ago? Why is it all of a sudden so prevalently discussed out of nowhere? And, and I ask you that for the obvious, you're talking about how vital it is and how we literally, if we didn't have this in 10 seconds, goodbye. Why aren't we talking about it? It's been known for 100 years. Yeah. So where's it been? Yeah. So it's been known for 100 years. I've sleep one of our or chief medical officer, one of my partners, Dr. Salisman was one of the first people who start writing about it. That's what he was working on. This is back late nineties. What he was working on is trying to fix the broken, broken, brocogene, the broken DNA that causes breast cancer or varying cancer in a woman. And NAD was one of the things that he used in the enzyme. So he was like one of the pioneers writing about NAD, but he comes from the super science, scientific, pharmaceutical background. So his goal was to repair the DNA to fix cancer, not as a supplement. So what happened in the last couple of decades, especially Harvard and MIT medical schools, they've done a lot of research and the precursors have been discovered. So you mentioned NMN at the beginning of our talk. So NMN, nicotinamide mononucleotide is a precursor to NAD. So you cannot just take NAD. They tried it in the past. NAD doesn't do anything. If your NAD levels are going down, you cannot just take NAD. That's not how it works. But so the discovery is NMN and R and then the clinical trials and the studies, preclinical trials start coming out and people are like, wow, this moves the needle. So that's why all of a sudden, you know, the end result is NAD, you start hearing about NAD, the fascination, more clinical studies, more funding. So he's looking into cancer research and fixing DNA that needs fixed and he stumbles upon NAD during this process of correct. Yeah, I've been more than stumbling, but just working with NAD and understanding that the mitochondria to solve all the functions and NAD plays a key role, actually, in what he has invented, which is DNA repair. But funny enough, like you don't need DNA repair just for cancer. You don't need DNA repair every day, every second. Like your DNA is constantly getting chipped away, like the exhaust that you just inhaled outside or like too much sun that's just constant, like hitting to DNA. Right. Okay, put it this way. NAD is so precious to the cell that the cell membrane doesn't let it slip out. NAD is used inside the cell. Okay. So that's why you cannot just like put NAD outside the cell and expect it to go inside the same membrane that doesn't let it out, doesn't let it in either. Right, right. So the body has a system to make an AG. How does it make an AG? It makes NMN and NR two molecules. And these are not the same as like niacin. This is much further than right. Right. So these are the building blocks that your body also creates billions every day. Yeah. And then they there's a lot of conversions happening. So NMN, NAD, age, et cetera. But the main one you need to we need to talk about is how NR and NMN, they are NMN especially is grabbed by a receptor outside of the cell. Okay. Just grabs it and then flips it inside. And once it's inside, then it turns an amount to NAD. Explain why you can't just take NAD. Why, why doesn't it reach out and grab the NAD if you just take that like it dumps it out? Like it pushes it right out. Just like a basketball boom. So it's rejecting it. Yeah. But there's a but there is a theory we haven't we haven't seen enough studies like when people take NAD we don't know what happens because nobody studies that. It's not you we know that it doesn't go in. Okay. But the under Salisman actually explained that Dr. Salisman or Chief Medical Officer explained that the the new fludger system with NAD which will get into it. Yeah, please. He's like it's very likely that some of that NAD actually turns into an MN because body needs to do something with it. It needs to like discard it. A lot of it comes through actually your urine. I figured. But some of it, you know, the body is smart. I smarter than you think, right? So it's like, there's something wrong in here. Right. So let me convert this into an MN. That's that's how Dr. Salisman explained it. But it hasn't been really studied. So we don't know exactly what's going on. We just don't we know that, you know, NAD doesn't really go inside the cell. How important is the NAD within that in comparison to the mitochondria? Do they work together? Do they feed off of each other? Does NAD help provide the energy that the mitochondria does? Just a quick great question. So we have the cell. Yeah. And then you have a bunch of mitochondria inside the cell. Mitochondria is what makes the cell work. Right. Right. So NAD actually goes inside the mitochondria will be not healthy if it does not make enough NAD. Yes. And that's where like, you know, all the like mitochondria of dysfunction is one of two, you know, major issues. Yeah. It's like you have all kinds of problems will come out of it. But we don't even have to go to dysfunction. We just want our mitochondria to be happy to be optimal. So for that, it needs a lot NAD energy. Okay. So NAD is a big key component in making sure that our mitochondria is healthy and functioning properly, which in turn is obviously going to give us energy and make us feel good. Absolutely. 70% of NAD is used purely for energy production and mitochondria. I want to ask you, because every company that has a product like yours has what I call barrier to entry or obstacle to overcome. And that can be in your marketing, your pricing, your competition, your ethics. But then there's misconception and misunderstanding. How difficult has that been for you with the company to overcome misunderstanding, misconception and just bad information that gets put out there? How difficult is that for you? I mean, we've been fortunate that we are recognized because we have an innovative formula that makes a big difference. We pay so much attention to quality. So we've been fortunate that most of the health experts and the press recognize us. But overall, I think there's a big challenge, not just for us, but in general. Just because NAD is popular, you see a lot of companies just slapping an AD on a label. And I'll actually track back a little bit. It was very interesting back in 2022, if they released a letter and it's really confused, muddy waters, because they have already approved NMN as a dietary supplement. And then they released a letter saying, like, no, we made a mistake. There's a pharma company that has applied for the patent. So we're going to take NMN out of the consumer, like from the dietary supplements from the consumer market, because it's going to become a pharma product. But they didn't, I mean, that's what the letter said. Of course. And what that caused, interestingly, which surprisingly to consumers benefits, Amazon just to remove all NMN. I remember. But most of those brands there were actually nothing wrong with actually, you know, anything coming from China, but these were just made up brands. No science behinds, and probably made in chemical facilities. And back then, we know it because NMN was so expensive to produce. And they were cheap. And they were just having bunch of fake reviews. So people were buying all these products. So one fortunate thing from this bad decision that FDA made is they got removed. So, you know, just there's silver lining in things. Always. But now, like, there's a lot more coming back. But there was a nice cleanup. Because consumers, like, I have our time finding sometimes some interesting supplements. Like, are they tested? Are they clean? Like, you know, the third party testing is super important. Third party, meaning it needs to be third party. You need to track it to where the third party is an established lab. Is there like a barcode that you can track? Is it real? Right. That's a lot of work, right? Like, you know, for every supplement to do that. So the challenge now is, you know, again, people are slapping an idea on things. And what's the right dose? You know, what's the right precursor, like NR and NMN? Anybody in thing else work? And people now come up with a whole bunch of other things claiming that they increase in ad production based on what? Exactly. And I had this discussion earlier today with a friend, the owner of Young Goose, and we were talking about how people don't understand costs when it comes into putting out a good product. And sometimes when you see a product that's inferior and cheap, it's because there was no testing done. There were so many corners cut. And a lot of times, people don't appreciate nor understand the time, the effort and the cost that it takes to go test every batch to get something truly third party tested, because that that's another one of those terms that gets thrown around. And I don't think it's monitored enough. Actually, I don't think I know because I've seen it and I've been in the trenches long enough. One of the things I'm thankful for, but I'm still jaded on is that I'm privy to that knowledge and that information on how things actually go. And that, but that's why I am able and capable when I meet people to know who's full of it and who's not and why not that I'm special by any stretch, but I am very tactical and careful about who I'm willing to say, yeah, I'll take that or I'll put you do homework. Yeah. I mean, I know that about you. Well, I'm not going to put people on my channels and stuff to promote for a couple bucks to go harm people or feed them BS. So I'm willing to wait and buy my time and, you know, money and all that stuff, it comes when it comes. But the importance is credibility and reliability. This is something interesting when it comes when it comes, like, just want to share something. I'm not sure if you want to even keep it or edit it. But like, when we were doing the formula, there was one ingredient and nobody really knew about it. But you know, our team was adamant about putting it in there. It's just like a ergothinium for mushrooms. And it was $100,000 a kilo. Damn, that's just like insanely expensive, right? You don't have to put much in it. Right. I mean, we didn't even know how much we were supposed to put it in there. Even Dr. Sassman was not sure. So we ended up talking to the ox, what is it, the Nobel Prize nominee for his work on antioxidants in 1990s. Oxford University professor, like he was in his 80s. So he was the one who was at the expert on it. So we had to call them. They were like, Hey, like, how much are we supposed to put it in there? And he was so happy to talk to us. He's like, Oh, like finally, like somebody's fined him. Yeah. And he's like, all my work on everything else, it brought me to this to this mushroom ingredient. And he was raising money for doing a clinical trial for Alzheimer's on this thing, because no pharma company will get behind it. They cannot patent it. Right. So but long story is short. The reason I brought it up is because when we started, it was $100,000 a kilo. And we we lost money. We put it in there because we believed in it. Right. Of course. And then the price came down and down and down and down and down and down. Like it's a fraction of it right now. So now we can make a little bit money on it. Yeah. But as to your point, things change and you can make money. It comes in different ways. It goes in different ways. You know, it comes and it goes. It comes and it goes. And but as long as you're doing the right thing, it always ends up coming more. If I send this out, Sassman. It does. And I used to make it and I'm not trying to go off topic here, but I think it's important to share the kind of the person that I am and you are. I used to make that just like everything that I was about. And when I stopped doing that, I got way more than I ever even needed or wanted because I didn't live for it or make it a priority. I want to work with assholes. Yeah. Excuse my language. No, you're fine. Speak freely. You know that. Like, you know, it doesn't matter how important they are. Like no, they might have a million dollar check. No, thank you. No. Life is too short. No, no, no, no, well, moving forward, then I have a couple of things that I took note on here for you that I wanted to discuss. When do you find or even scientifically when do people start to see the beginning stages of the decline in NAD because I miss, you know, things just naturally decline, whether it's testosterone, what, you know, I mean, that's what I do. When does it start to happen naturally and what kind of bad lifestyle things or other components of life could make it even worse? So, or understanding the way the scientists have been looking at it is like, when does it decline or so? When can we supplement it? When can we start like looking into supplementing? So, so at the age of 34, sure, it starts declining. Prevent each for everything, isn't it? Potentially 25 to. Yeah. But how much? I mean, it's also people are different. But there's a there's a consistent, consistently on everybody, there's a decline. Some people say, well, have you measured your NAD levels? It's pretty certain that it's lower than what it was when you were 30 years old. And that's men and women, right? Men and women. Okay. Yes. That's that's pretty, pretty much, you know, the science is out there. Yeah. So the tricky question is, you know, if you want to take a supplement, should you start like in your 20s? And, you know, or approaches, we don't think so. We don't have enough data. We don't even have to look at it because there's so much more interesting data for people who are older than 30, 35, 40, right? And then you see actually, the results. But I'm surprised, like some of these celebrities, they're not even 30, and they're taking like massive amounts. I mean, hey, people who are taking risks, I don't think it's a big risk is something supernatural. Maybe they're ahead of us. Like, you know, that's why I love biohackers. They don't wait for the science. They figure something out and they go after it. I'm, we are more conservative. We come from like a bit more conservative pharmaceutical study, everything, look at the data point of view. So, you know, if you're, if you're younger than 30, it's questionable. It's up to you. But once you start passing, passing the age of 30, then this is a consideration because they're declining. And what contributes to you ask that question? What makes it decline faster? I don't think anybody has like done a like clinical trial to see like, if you don't exercise, does the NAD levels go down? But we know that if you exercise, it helps with NAD levels. So you can assume that if you don't exercise, it's going to go down faster. Right, right. Right. Like that's what we say, like one of the magic pills that works for everything is exercise. That's right. So, I mean, and you know this, I mean, you're not taking care of the things that you need to take care of daily. If you're not, I'm a big believer of mind, body, balance. And if you're not balanced in the best way that you can, I understand some people have conditions, but you can do everything under the sun and it's not going to be nearly as effective as it's supposed to. People come to me all the time, how do I lose weight? How do I gain muscle? And it's like, well, first we have to address all of this, because I can put you on everything under the sun and it's not going to matter. How does one know if it's working? Because you and I had this discussion where sometimes people say to you, well, what is it doing? So is there a blood panel that will show? Will they have a little bit more energy? Will their skin look bad? Like, how do people know that it's actually doing something? That's a great question. Yeah. It's a bit of a trick question too. So I'll start with the interesting news we get every day. So we have every day we get that great customer feedback. And some of the feedback really blows our minds because we hear about something we never even thought about. Because like, I'll give you some examples. So these are not like the important part is like the people usually feel an energy uptick. But if you're in your 40s, if you're working out, if you're really healthy, if you're in your optimal shape, you're not going to probably feel anything. It's hard to like really make it better. We even tested it on the fastest swimmer on earth. So he won the 50 meter freestyle in Olympics in 2002 and 2016. So that makes him the fastest swimmer. But the guy is in such a good shape for him to like break the world record. Like who knows, like his mindset, like what have you woke up that day, that's what matters. So he took it and he didn't feel the difference. Right. So again, I wanted to start with the positive, but I gave you the, you know, the word words, words hard to tell. But where where did it makes a difference for somebody like, you know, the people were like in their 60s, 70s, they have a hard time going up two flights of stairs, they can go three, three flights, four flights, and they send us like these, these amazing stories. But those are kind of expected. I mean, not everybody feels everything. But then the really unique ones, and some of them are serious medical conditions. Like I want to be very careful, like we're not making any claims. But they come and they tell us like, I stopped taking my blood pressure medicine. Like, why did you do that? Because it's really like it helps with the blood pressure. And so there are very interesting other stories like people's eczema go away, eczema like 30 or 40 year chronic eczema, they try all these cortisone creams and like they work for a while, they stop working. Yeah. And then they're like, what, it's completely gone. Like eradicated. This is where my mind goes, is if somebody tells you it's helping my eczema or I don't have to take my blood pressure medication, that low NAD levels would be contributing to those problems. I mean, that's that would be the correlation I would make. So as you know, if it's helping with those instances, I would assume that low NAD can obviously have a variety of things that it causes wrong with somebody. Age related decline. Yeah. NAD is that's that's that's one of the things like, you know, what is aging? Yeah. There's a lot of reasons that we are aging, but we know that NAD is one of those reasons. And like, that's why I call it the most significant discovery that we can use in longevity science right now is bringing back NAD levels. There are many other things that are going to come out. But this is practical that we can implement, we can apply. Yes. So just just to connect a few things, I want to go back to the blood pressure things actually is clinically studied. Oh, so it is it has been showing. But of course, for that to be a prescription, it needs to go through the other phase. Oh, yeah. So it's less less less frame it in that sense that you know, it's been studied. Yeah. It's looking promising. Right. But you know, do not stop taking your prescription. I'll see what I'm saying. But to ask your question better, there are so many potential benefits. The list is really long. Everybody is different. So somebody who's super healthy and optimal, you know, they might feel like maybe a little sharper, a little bit more focused. But then everybody else is going to have a different, different reaction to it because we're all different. So like the skin, yes, it has a major impact on skin. But in the case of eczema, we don't think it's the NMN or NAD is the combination that we have, like the the mushroom ingredient dimension are good finding. Yeah, because on some of these, let's not call patients of the consumers, we told them, okay, you might do you want to do you want to just like experiment with us? Do you mind stopping it? See if it comes back, comes back. Now do you mind taking just one ingredient at a time to see what happens? Yeah. I mean, these are natural clinical trials, obviously, but we are so curious that we want to get an idea. And sure enough, when they just took one ingredient, it did not, did not fight it off. So a combination of synergy between the synergy works. And again, like we don't know exactly how it works. But it works for me when I think about anti aging, because I've man, I have really put some time into this. Like what are my keys to that? And it would be boosting mitochondria, boosting NAD levels and telomeres. Those are the three things that I look at when it comes to your own deep but people are looking at this my hair getting wider. So the one surprising thing we got is like people's hair, the color is turning back to the regular color from from gray and white. We didn't expect that lights up. And we don't know if it works on everyone. Right. Right. But there's a lot of people like if you go to our website, like read the reviews, they're just really fun and interesting. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, what are things that you start to notice when you age? Graying hair is one of them. Exactly. So if we're prolonging life or aging, I mean, that's certainly something that would it wouldn't shock me that it's doing it all. So yeah, that's that's what it's really. Reversing is really surprising. Yeah. That's what's really surprising. It's slowing down. Sure. Yeah, I hope so. But right. But how does that reverse? Tell me this then because we mentioned this earlier and I think it would be good to give a breakdown. It's kind of a two part question, but it goes together. Why is it that I like you'll see these people oh, I just took NAD and I feel so great like it just made me feel amazing because I get that a lot, you know, when they take this big injection or whatever. And then, you know, why then over time do they end up feeling bad after because a lot of people end up not feeling so great after that initial, you know, big bulk of NAD that goes into them. I've seen people tell me I didn't feel so great after I've seen some people continuously tell me they feel good and they think they need to keep taking it. So I've seen both sides of the spectrum. Why is it then explain or, you know, however in depth you want to go big, big injection or IV or whatever or big dose of it feel really good and want to keep taking it forever. Let's break it down. When you do NAD IV injection, you're flooding your system with NAD. So there are a couple of things we need to, I think, look at. Number one, does the NAD get into the cell? That's the question and there's literally like there's only one study that shows most of it comes out. But again, you're putting so much NAD. How much of it really gets in is the question. Assuming that, you know, a good chunk of it gets in. If we assume that, that is very different than the way your body produces NAD because you produce NAD like consistently every day. It goes up a little bit in the morning, comes down like later in the day. But, you know, if we compare that NAD injection or IV to taking supplements, that's like taking 100 pills a day. Like you're just like taking so much, right? Like you're just like boosting it. If it goes in there, that's assuming that some of it goes in there. So some people actually have chest pains, some people react to it, some people like have hard time going through it. And some people come out and say, I feel great. Who knows exactly what you're doing in your body? Like you're maybe activating response systems. I mean, right now I'm speculating, but you're doing something that a little bit, not a little bit, very different than what your body is used to. I mean, we know that it's really safe. But again, like, even if you give too much water, you can kill somebody, right? Totally. So we know it's safe, but like, but again, everybody's different. So if people are responding well to it, they like it, more power to them. Still a lot of work to go and put needles on, but more power to them. But if it doesn't feel good, you probably shouldn't do it. What are some ideal doses for taking NMN so that you know, you're getting the right amount. Because like you were saying, there's so many different supplements with so many different either bottle recommendations or the pills or I'm just going to make up a number of 500 milligrams here, 200 milligrams here. And on the surface, if I'm a consumer and I'm looking at that, and I'm really confused, you know, because it's like, is that too little? Is that too much? I'm scared. I don't know. And then you've got 75 different websites telling you to take this and take that. So talk about the dosing a little bit for me. Yeah, I mean, let's just go to science on that one. Yeah, please. All the clinical trials we looked at, they are all pointing to more or less the same dosage, which is somewhere around like, let's say 800 and 1100, 900,000. So there's a consistency there. Yeah. But I want to address like, why do you see so many different numbers? Number one, it was so expensive to produce five, six years ago that not many people knew about it. So the companies, you know, were putting a reasonable price tag on it. Right. And I didn't want to put like $200 price tag in there. So we took the bullet on me that we were one of the first ones because it was a tough decision to price it at a level that people can access to it. So we took the hit. But we wanted to put the right dose in there. That was key. It's like the fact that there's probably no other company who had that dose back then. Right. Just trying to do the right thing. So now you see much more of the right dose because the lower doses from what we see, doesn't really do much. Like it's like, you might not as well take it. Yeah. Lower is not the right word. If you don't use the optimal dose, because what is lower, lower is all subjective. Sure. If you don't use the optimal dose, it really does not make a lot of sense. And then new clinical trials are not doubling the size, doubling the dose. So maybe in a few years, we're going to say, oh, even our dose was like too moderate. Yeah. Because they haven't seen any side effects. They have seen like good benefits. But we feel competent about like 900 to 1000 nagram dose. Is the right, the optimal dose. But not if you're 18 years old. So I mean, because we don't know. There's a lot of people I really respect. So I don't want to speak out of turn here. And I'm certainly not putting you on the spot. I need names or anything like that. But I see some people that I follow, I listen to that know a lot. And I see him promote and NAD supplements constantly and good companies too that make them. And I'm not I'm once again, I'm not going to call out names. I don't think that that's proper. Well, I have to tell you one of the biggest names out there. He's a he's at a very prominent university on the West Coast. And I've heard him on another big podcast, dismissing and I'm at an AD. But then I realized he hasn't read the new clinical trials. He doesn't even know about it. I was really surprised myself. I mean, I would love them to call his name. Like, I mean, I would love him to speak to somebody like Dr. Andrew Sosman. Yeah, have a discussion so that you guys can break down your opinion should be based on the clinical latest clinical research. Peter Adia is his name. And I was so surprised because it didn't look like you had the latest. You studied the latest papers. And I will say this. I used to do stuff like this and I completely and this was my younger days and I'm fully open to admit that I always admit where I was wrong. And I would take what one person said that I knew was really respected or whatnot and just kind of take it as gospel and just kind of repeat it without really looking into detail. I didn't do that with everything. But some things that I wasn't well versed on now, instead of me jumping into like when the NAD craze hit, I wasn't talking about it because I just didn't know enough about it. And I could go take the word from somebody like you're talking and just put it out there and then look like a complete fool later by saying something that wasn't accurate or by somebody that had a bad motive. I see these companies that have 20 different products. You have one because you believe in it and you specialize it. You brought up two precursors, white NMN over the other. But they're both great. Some people take sides like they're rooting for a football team. So we don't necessarily root one over the other one. They're both really good. We believe that NMN is a little bit more effective. But if you want to take NR, just completely fine. We believe that the synergistic effects of other ingredients, not believe, but like that's what the preclinical trials show us. That's what moves the needle, not necessarily just NMN or NR. Have you ever thought about adding NR to your product lineup or is that you just going to kind of stick with NMN? We have. We have. But not there's so many more interesting areas that we are working on. We are doing studies. That is more like a commercial thing. We're looking at more, a little bit more effective things that move the needle. Okay. So I got another question for you because we've been going all over the place. But it's all good shit. It's all in the right. Yeah. What's CD38? What is CD38 for everybody listening? Because I wanted to bring that up and we have to talk about it. So what is it and why do people need to know about it and how important is it? Good question. So let me take it back to analogy. So remember that we have this source of water. This comes from the mountain that feeds the valley, the river, and that is arms. So CD38 is something in the body that's think about like, you know, bunch of, let's call it people, they go up to the source because there's not enough water coming down. They go towards the source and they redirect some of the water to for their purpose. So they do like a little small little village in there and they are just kind of stealing everybody else's water. Maybe they're bended. So no, who knows where they came from, right? But they're diverting that's super important source of NAD. I mean, they're good people that just happen to like, you know, get up there and find it. So CD38 is like something like especially like your guts produces a lot. It's it could be an inflammation sign. It could sign inflammation as well. So as you age, CD38, it starts there, there's more CD38 production and the CD38, we don't want that much CD38, and it just consumes a lot of NAD. So it just sucks up like your NAD, and it doesn't need to, it doesn't need to, they don't need to live up there. You just need to bring them back up and share the resources. So the more CD38 we have, the less NAD we have, the more CD38 you have, the less NAD you have, correct. And you don't want more CD38, it doesn't benefit the body. You need to have a little bit of CD38, not not not a lot. Not a lot. One of the reasons that we have that natural decline, we get older, our body produces more CD38, which in turn lowers our NAD levels. Correct. Okay, there we go. That's the that's the chain. All right. Okay. So theoretically, answer me, am I right or wrong here? When you take the NMN, it's going to help produce the more NAD. Will that lower the level of CD38? No. No. Okay. All right. So you're still fighting that fight. You're fighting two fights. Okay. Your NAD production is coming down. And then CD38, this enzyme, this inflammatory enzyme is taking a lot of NAD. So not only are NADs coming down, your NAD consumption is going up. So a double edge, you know, you're getting hit from both ends. So something like NMN is at least compensating for that loss? Yeah, at least you're bringing your NAD levels up. Okay. But you know, if you think about like a sink or a tub, so there's a leak somewhere. Yeah. So you're filling the tub with water. Yeah. But there's a leak and the leak is getting worse and worse. So you want to start closing that leak? I mean, how then do you plug that leak just by doing this or is that? Well, we have in our formula, we specifically have two ingredients that is specifically to bring down CD8. Tell me about those, please. That's obviously a key to this that people don't have in their supplement. Yeah. So one of them is hydroxyl tyrosol. Actually, it's olive extract. And the main ingredient of that olive extract is hydroxyl tyrosol. They're powerful antioxidants. Okay. But it also comes with some other polyphenols of olive oil. It's known to decrease CD38 production. And the other one is resveratrol. Okay. That's probably people have heard of before. Yeah, I tell you. You take it okay. Take a high amount of it. You take a high amount. Take a lot of it. Probably way more than most. It's not sure. It's not sure. It's probably get rid of it. Yeah, no, I do a gram of it. But you know, most people, even the 500 could get expensive. But like I said, spend your money on your body. Yeah. So that's where I was going. What makes the Wonderfield product special, as opposed to another quality, you know, control that type of thing, you know, but you just really spoke on it having those extra ingredients. Because if you go buy most NMN supplements and you look at the back, it's going to spread it lists ingredients, it's going to say NMN, and that's it. You were still doing it. We're doing preclinical trials. Like we'd look at lungs that are damaged lungs to see like, you know, which of these ingredients are helping it. And then we compare it to like, they're powerful, seroids, like some ethosone. And, you know, so when we do the combination, or actually combination really helps bring in the inflammation levels down. The one I bought, I'll be frank with you, the one we noticed the synergy works. But like the Argot thine, for instance, like it's the one from the mushrooms, it does not work with CD38 as far as we know, it does not work with CD38. And that on its own, you know, people should just take it as a supplement. That was the conversation with actually, we had with Dave Asprey, he's like, Oh, you have a good source? Oh my God. Why don't you sell it? It's like, it's on its own. I'm like, that's, I mean, that's how we do it. Right, right. Yeah. You know, like eat more mushrooms, literally like good mushrooms. Yeah. And so this is something that actually in mothers milk, babies have receptors for it. And it's the only ex antioxidant that I know that actually stores in the body for up to 30 days, where there's tissue damage. So it's an adaptive one. And as I explained earlier, they're done actually finished a clinical trial on Alzheimer patients. And they benefited they were just doing much better. So a baby from one year old to somebody who's nine years old with Alzheimer's benefit from it. We have specific receptors for it. It's super unstable. Like if you do not receptor, we wouldn't be able to take it. Right. You have a very specific receptor just like what the cell has a receptor for. So that is does in there. It works one way or another, but we still haven't exactly figured out what is, what is, how does it, what the mechanism is. But I highly recommend people just to take that on their own anyways. I love how when you explain something, how honest you are about it and you, everything you know, you know, and everything you're a little unsure about, but you think you, you, you put it out there and you're just flat ass honest with it. And I don't know why we don't know. I appreciate that because it, it makes everything smooth and easy. And I want to ask you this, I know we've kind of covered this throughout, but I think it's important to just now that we've gone through, you know, the conversation, can you just give some of the biggest misconceptions of one that wants to take an NAD supplement? Number one, do not buy an NAD supplement if it does not have the precursor in it. Okay. So it has to be either NMN or NR. Okay. You know, everything else that people say they're precursors are not properly studied. I don't, I don't know if they do anything. They may help a little bit, but science is pretty clear. NR and NMN are the precursors for NAD. Don't buy NAD. It does not work. Dose is critical. Like, you know, if you, you buy this with the intention, then get the right dose. Right. And another question is, you know, you want to make sure that what they say is in the product is in there. So try to buy from trusted companies. You know, the trusted companies, they do pay attention to make sure that it's safe and it has what it has in it. When it comes to the IVs and the injections, some people, they, they, they like it. They have good, good, good feedback. But if you're not one of them, you know, probably it's bad for you. Right? Yeah. You know, I would love to see more studies on this thing. And so we can speak more intelligently about what it does, how much of it goes in. What it activates. But I would rather take a capsule. It already does the job. We know it's, yeah, I like that one more thing. Yeah, please. The expectation. Like, why are you taking this? So one of the key things is consistency. Yeah. That's something people don't realize. Like they think they can take it like a few days here and there and they're going to see the benefits. I mean, some of our customers, they come back a year later, a year and a half later talking about these massive changes, like these improvements. When I talk about the hair change in color, doesn't happen overnight or the skin getting better. So consistency is key. And because your organs have been living without like with less NAD for so long, just, just bringing any two levels back up doesn't make them automatically just work at their optimal level. They need to, they need time to really like, you know, get back into their optimal level of how they were performing. And then the results might take much longer, you know, like this is like step by step, you are bringing back your NAD levels, your body is getting used to it, your energy levels, your organs. Yeah. So this is a long process. So I think people miss that consistency is key. Or is there any kind of testing one can do? Do you really want to know NAD in tissue? That's where it matters. Okay. And that's very expensive to do because you have to take the tissue out. So it's not really readily available. Yeah. Awesome. And then and the blood test is not, that's not that, that, that not really doesn't give you the result that you want to know. Like you said, everybody wants instant results. Yeah, right. You know, and explain it to somebody that this is a marathon, it's not a sprint and that it takes time. It's hard because it's, as a society, we just want shit now. We do. Everybody wants it now, you know, and even for me, it's hard, even though I preach it, that I know sometimes I'm that way too. But the understanding of how this works, which you were just talking about, as it takes time. So this is maybe a two part question. One, when could someone expect to start to see transitional changes? Because like, okay, I'll relate this to HGH again. So when somebody takes HGH, it's stages of where you're going to see something start to happen for you. Like earlier stages, you'll probably see sleep improvement, skin, hair, skin nails, but it takes time for you to start to see the fat loss benefits that everybody wants right now. And a lot of times you hold water initially and you got to wait, you know, and then with the lean muscle building for HGH, once again, a misunderstanding and misconception and how long that takes. So with this, I know it's a battle for you. And it is with it's not just this is the damn near everything that takes time. When would one start to see this and then for someone, how long can they safely take it? How long should they take it? Yeah. Man, I should have pulled up to clinical paper or team published because they collected all the feedback and they categorized it. So the benefits are categorized like there's metabolic benefits, there's skin benefits, hairs, nails. I think with hairs and nails especially, most people start reporting after a month, two months, they start seeing some changes. The white hair thing is a different one. The energy depends like their energy levels, how old they are. So some people start reporting within two weeks, some people also the energy levels, like they go up in such a small amounts every day. So they don't even realize that they have more energy sometimes because people forget how they were a month ago, people sleep better, but they don't think about it. I agree. But let me let me think about it. There's a couple other things I wanted to mention there. Again, there's so many benefits like forgetting about it. And it's not the same for everyone. Right. Oh, so as far as like your blood work, you can look at your blood work. So if you do constant blood work, hopefully you can see some of your biomarkers improving. So that's a great way to track it. Another thing like people are really, really good at like paying attention to tracking. We highly recommend them to track actually before. Yeah, we have a survey that you can fill out. And then there's a like survey of 15 days, 45 days, 90 days. So you can track it because your mind doesn't necessarily catch up with what the changes. And people can probably go to your website and see it right on Wednesday. We have a lot of nice articles there. Yeah. Oh yeah. A lot of clinical papers are referenced, but more writers are really making it very easy to understand. And if I may, I would recommend reading, listening to anything Dr. Andrew Salzman's done. And I'll have him on my show too. We had to get you first. But I will talk to him too and get a little sciency and a little nerdy. We can really kick out with him. Yeah, it'll be fun. But he is a well known and recognized plethora of information and trusted person for information that I would recommend going if you want more intricate detailed science on NAD and in-depth study. And he works with you guys on things. And it's been a pleasure to talk to him. Yeah, he's loving it. He's been working in pharmaceuticals for so long. Yeah. He's just loving it's like, oh, like we can see the results so quickly. He's the man. We'd really grab them from that pharmaceutical world and brought them into our world. We're still doing pharmaceuticals on the side, but not like that pharmaceutical goal of like maximizing profits. Like just because some doctors, they only believe in prescription, yeah, we'll get you the prescription version of it. Right. But you know, so. I met you at the convention. Are you going to be at more conventions? Like what's your plans the rest of year? And then how do people follow and get good information from you? And are you posting regularly and putting new stuff up? Well, when he invited us, it becomes much more exciting to talk about. I mean, they invited us. Dave Asprey and his team invited us to the convention. That's how we ended up there. Yes. But we don't necessarily do a lot of conventions. Yeah. The internet is easier to get the information out. But we have some wonderful partners like some doctors, like Dr. Mark Hyman is clinic. Like they love our product. They buy it. They give it to their patients. Yeah. So it's organically growing beautifully. But you know, we need to get out and inform people. We need to get out and talk about it. So we're trying to try to do that. You know, I think in the next five years, we're going to see much more of this product becoming more popular, which is a good thing. Like people need this is hopefully it's going to be like YTMND, which we have it in there because most people don't take it still. And this is one of the easiest hacks like YTMND, Create Team. But you know, we need to get out there and inform the public. Thank you so much. And what you do, I think resonates with a lot of people. I appreciate it, man. I'm trying my best for everybody. Give me a quick before we go, run me down every ingredient in there so people can take note. Oh, sure. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. NMN, the right dose 900 milligrams is what we have. We have ergo thynine from mushrooms, so you know, all organic. And we have respiratory that is usually in grapes, hydroxyl tyrosol and the other polyphenols from really good olives and olive oil. And then the last one is just because most people don't get it, not everybody lives in Phoenix like you. Right, Tim and D3. Right. And I learned the hard way on that one going out in the sun too much, man. My wife will tell you that right away. Knock me down. I got plenty of vitamin D, I assure you. So what's the best way to follow what you guys do? I mean, like social media wise, your website, things like that, we're gonna catch you. Our website, getwonderfield.com and our social media is also getwonderfield. Um, sorry, Instagram. We only do Instagram right now. That's the spot. That's the spot. Yeah, that's the spot. That's my favorite. And then like I said, look for Dr. Salzman. He's done several podcasts. He's got good information out there. He'll be on mine soon. And you know, read trusted information. That's all I can say. And get the right info and you'll learn, you'll do the right things. And this is a great product. I stand by it. You've been taken Yeah. Beanie, my wife, both, you know, she uses it. I use it. We've been using it now since May? Yeah. Yeah. I mentioned May. So now it's time flies. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I wouldn't use it if it, you know, I, I'm a mitochondria freak and the cellular freak and understanding the correlation even more today from you and the importance with cellular health that that has and longevity. Dude, I want to live long, but I want it to be good and quality. I mean, what good is it live into 90, 100, 120, whatever people think we can go to if you're screwed up for most of it, right? So way to help you live a better life. So I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you coming out to see me. And I just want to make sure more people know about you, man. Thank you so much. You've got to really appreciate it. Anytime, man. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps up another one. I hope you found this insightful, helpful and beneficial, which I'm sure you have. So stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jimmeli and Baron Delaver signing off.